Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 1
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 1000 watts per channel?
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:28:19 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
Another anecdote for you:
My college roomate came to visit last night from out of town. He is also
into his hifi in his own, very different, way. He has his huge SS McIntoshs
and Big JBL studio monitors plus Sunfire sub (biamped 500 per channel on
the bass and 250 on the mid/highend) I played him my "little" Altec system
with jc's little 10 watt amps with some Hendrix and Marley, stuff with a
lot of bass, and I asked him "how many watts does it sound like?" He
doesn't know nothin' from tubes or Altec. "500 watts a channel?", he said.
"no" I said. "are they really 1000 watts?" he asked, straight faced....
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: 1000 watts per channel?
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:23:11 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Mark Donen wrote:
> My college roomate came to visit last night from out of town. He is also
> into his hifi in his own, very different, way. He has his huge SS McIntoshs
> and Big JBL studio monitors plus Sunfire sub (biamped 500 per channel on
> the bass and 250 on the mid/highend) I played him my "little" Altec system
> with jc's little 10 watt amps with some Hendrix and Marley, stuff with a
> lot of bass, and I asked him "how many watts does it sound like?" He
> doesn't know nothin' from tubes or Altec. "500 watts a channel?", he said.
> "no" I said. "are they really 1000 watts?" he asked, straight faced....
I think that reflects on his esthetics as much as on yours.
Kal
>
>
Nota Bene: New address is kr4@is2.nyu.edu
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 1000 watts per channel?
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:58:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
Hey Kal,
Only trying to point out that 10 watts can sound really powerful. My
friends aesthetics of course are not mine. He wants power and bass that is
all he is into. The point of getting together a system like mine was not
just bass. That just came as a bonus with the package. But it has to be
said for some music you just gotta have it. For bass alone and more and
better bass than I have, I could have just gone to Canal St and bought
myself 2 pairs of JBL 2226 and a Crown switching amp and saved myself time
and trouble!
Regards,
Mark
- ----------
> From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
> To: Mark Donen <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
> Cc: joelist <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Subject: Re: 1000 watts per channel?
> Date: Thursday, April 30, 1998 2:23 PM
>
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Mark Donen wrote:
> > My college roomate came to visit last night from out of town. He is
also
> > into his hifi in his own, very different, way. He has his huge SS
McIntoshs
> > and Big JBL studio monitors plus Sunfire sub (biamped 500 per channel
on
> > the bass and 250 on the mid/highend) I played him my "little" Altec
system
> > with jc's little 10 watt amps with some Hendrix and Marley, stuff with
a
> > lot of bass, and I asked him "how many watts does it sound like?" He
> > doesn't know nothin' from tubes or Altec. "500 watts a channel?", he
said.
> > "no" I said. "are they really 1000 watts?" he asked, straight faced....
>
> I think that reflects on his esthetics as much as on yours.
>
> Kal
> >
> >
>
> Nota Bene: New address is kr4@is2.nyu.edu
>
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: 1000 watts per channel?
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:08:24 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Mark Donen wrote:
> Only trying to point out that 10 watts can sound really powerful.
I understand.
> My friends aesthetics of course are not mine.
Yes, and it was his that I was critical of.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 1000 watts per channel?
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:27:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
Oh well,
I wasn't sure. But how do they get all that power and be so small and light
and cool running?
Best,
Mark
- ----------
> From: David Barnett <davidbarnett@aristotle.net>
> To: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: 1000 watts per channel?
> Date: Thursday, April 30, 1998 8:19 PM
>
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:58:43 -0400, "Mark Donen"
> <soledadd@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >I could have just gone to Canal St and bought
> >myself 2 pairs of JBL 2226 and a Crown switching amp and saved myself
time
> >and trouble!
>
> Sorry to nitpick, but I think Crown amps are still analog. At least
> the five I have at work are.
>
> --dnb
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: 1000 watts per channel?
Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 00:19:49 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:58:43 -0400, "Mark Donen"
<soledadd@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I could have just gone to Canal St and bought
>myself 2 pairs of JBL 2226 and a Crown switching amp and saved myself time
>and trouble!
Sorry to nitpick, but I think Crown amps are still analog. At least
the five I have at work are.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: 1000 watts per channel?
Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 02:00:12 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:27:58 -0400, "Mark Donen"
<soledadd@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I wasn't sure. But how do they get all that power and be so small and light
>and cool running?
Good question. I think there's some power supply jiggery-pokery in
the MA3600VZ and MA5000VZ, but (1) they ain't all that light (I've had
to carry them up a ladder to mount them in a rack...), and (2) the
audio bits are all analog.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: 100 years of cinema loudspeakers
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:24:33 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n534
Give a look at:
http://www.amps.net/newsletters/21_cine.htm
100 YEARS OF CINEMA LOUDSPEAKERS
By John Aldred
and
http://www.audioworld.net/Goodolddays/Beginning/beginindex.htm
Where did it all begin?
Fra Hi-Fi & Music Review 1958
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Larry Van Wormer <lvw@bmts.com>
Subject: $10 coupon from Music Boulevard
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:06:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n454
I've found out a bit more about the various good deals from Music
Boulevard. Seems the company offers special deals through some web
sites. The people who know more about this have a regular list of sites
they check, which I hope to get. If so will pass it along. In the
meantime here is a current coupon from the Netscape site. (Go there,
click on "Music" under Shopping, then click on the Music Boulevard ad on
the screen that comes up. Order from the page that comes up, and you
will get $10 deducted from the CD order you place. It works, I've
already ordered a CD. Don't worry about what the ad says, you can order
any CD and get the discount.)
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/2184_20_chi^S&FS=NETCENTER
Larry Van Wormer
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenWright@compuserve.com>
Subject: ***10K GIF file*** FET THD
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:32:05 -0500
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=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: 10th Anniversary
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:10:46 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n208
I second Paul Joppa's suggestion for a parafeed OPT for the SV-572
series (and the matching plate load choke).
It would open up a whole new realm for the guys who like the sound of
tungsten (me included after hearing it at VSAC) .
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: 10th Anniv product-845 parafeed
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:59:13 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n209
Doc said:
>but some R & D has shown that 845 nickel parafeed may just flat whup
>anything else around.
Well, how about a low-power version using the 450v, 80ma point, with BACs
and 2004s? Might be only 4 or 5 watts, but let the whupping begin. - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: 10th Anniv product-845 parafeed
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 22:18:46 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n209
That operating point would likely give 10-11 real watts. But having
heard Bottlehead's VV52 parafeed (it's wonderful!), I'd suggest less
volts and more amps. For the brave, 400v and 100mA is the 300B max
spec of 40 watts. Gives less power but less distortion. I know
Dan prefers this; maybe he will tell us what difference he hears.
Good chokes are hard to find; you want I think at least 50 henries.
Maybe four EX003's in series-parallel?! Or give up some power, run
320v at 80 mA with the new big chokes...
- -Paul Joppa
Patrick Currie wrote:
>
> Doc said:
>
> >but some R & D has shown that 845 nickel parafeed may just flat whup
> >anything else around.
>
> Well, how about a low-power version using the 450v, 80ma point, with BACs
> and 2004s? Might be only 4 or 5 watts, but let the whupping begin. - Pat
>
> Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: 10th Anniv product-845 parafeed
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 07:23:03 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n209
Yip Hin Fai Johari wrote:
>
> Hey I am working on a 845 SE amp that's running at the 450V 80mA point.
> It's fixed bias at -46V and cap. coupled to the anode of a 5691.
> Output trans is rated at 2K5 primary.
> Any thoughts about this amp.
>
> Johari
That's the load for max. power, but distortion might be a little high.
You'd lose very little power going to a higher load impedance - 4K to
5K
should cut second harmonic in half. If primary inductance is not too
small, you might try it with an 8ohm speaker on the 4ohm tap, just to
see how it sounds.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Yip Hin Fai Johari <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: 10th Anniv product-845 parafeed
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:58:20 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n209
At 06:59 PM 3/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Well, how about a low-power version using the 450v, 80ma point, with BACs
>and 2004s? Might be only 4 or 5 watts, but let the whupping begin. - Pat
>
>Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
Hey I am working on a 845 SE amp that's running at the 450V 80mA point.
It's fixed bias at -46V and cap. coupled to the anode of a 5691.
Output trans is rated at 2K5 primary.
Any thoughts about this amp.
Johari
=========================================================================
From: Yip Hin Fai Johari <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: 10th Anniv product-845 parafeed
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 07:17:50 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n209
At 07:23 AM 3/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Yip Hin Fai Johari wrote:
>>
>> Hey I am working on a 845 SE amp that's running at the 450V 80mA point.
>> It's fixed bias at -46V and cap. coupled to the anode of a 5691.
>> Output trans is rated at 2K5 primary.
>> Any thoughts about this amp.
>>
>> Johari
>
>That's the load for max. power, but distortion might be a little high.
>You'd lose very little power going to a higher load impedance - 4K to
>5K
>should cut second harmonic in half. If primary inductance is not too
>small, you might try it with an 8ohm speaker on the 4ohm tap, just to
>see how it sounds.
>
>-Paul Joppa
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your valuable insights. I'm using a Lundahl LL1620 which is a
universal O/P trans but primary is set at 3K. I'll rewire it to 5K and give
it a try.
Thanks again for your response.
Johari
=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: 10V valves
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:11:55 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n444
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Sellek, Grant (TSA) wrote:
> Can anyone send a list of valves that use 10V heaters? Preferably those that
> have some audio potential.
805, 838, 203A, 833
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: 10V valves
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 00:11:04 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n444
Can anyone send a list of valves that use 10V heaters? Preferably those that
have some audio potential. I am looking for something that will yield at
least a watt or so in class A; maybe something a little offbeat and which,
for that reason, is not priced (prized?) very highly. I of course know about
the 211 and 845, but not much else.
Grant
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: 10V valves
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:30:38 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n445
Sellek, Grant (TSA) wrote:
>
> Can anyone send a list of valves that use 10V heaters? Preferably those that
> have some audio potential. I am looking for something that will yield at
> least a watt or so in class A; maybe something a little offbeat and which,
> for that reason, is not priced (prized?) very highly. I of course know about
> the 211 and 845, but not much else.
I wouldn't hesitate to try any of the double-triode TV vertical
amp/osc types - 10DA7, DE, DR, EG, EM, EW, FD, FR, or GF.
Unfortunately none seem to be DN7 types, but all are 6-10w output side
at 700-1000 ohms rp. I'd stay with the ones that have a low-mu
'driver' section myself, so you can run enough current to drive the
output grid capacitance.
There's also a 10BQ5...
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: 10V valves
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 22:52:52 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n445
At 00:11 8-10-98 +0930, Sellek, Grant (TSA) wrote:
>Can anyone send a list of valves that use 10V heaters? Preferably those that
>have some audio potential. I am looking for something that will yield at
>least a watt or so in class A
try EL95 SE in triode (850 mW). Usual 6.3 V heater
Guido
>; maybe something a little offbeat and which,
>for that reason, is not priced (prized?) very highly. I of course know about
>the 211 and 845, but not much else.
>
>Grant
>
>Grant Sellek
>Adelaide, Australia
>grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Andrej Deticek <andrej.deticek@siol.net>
Subject: Re: 10V valves
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 00:26:01 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n445
> At 00:11 8-10-98 +0930, Sellek, Grant (TSA) wrote:
> >Can anyone send a list of valves that use 10V heaters? Preferably those that
> >have some audio potential. I am looking for something that will yield at
> >least a watt or so in class A; maybe something a little offbeat and which,
> >for that reason, is not priced (prized?) very highly. I of course know about
> >the 211 and 845, but not much else.
> >
> >Grant
> >
> >Grant Sellek
> >Adelaide, Australia
> >grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
> >
> >
Hello Grant,
If it has to be a 10V heater and you are happy with 1 - 2W output and
should not be expensive, you can try valve type 10CW5 (=YL86).
This is a 9-pin miniature valve (Noval), an equivalent to 6CW5(= EL86)
valve, however with a 10V heater.
The valve is quite linear (The tube was built for an output audio
amplifier amplification) and you can get about 2W of output SE, when
triode connected, at a plate voltage of 170V, plate load 1200 Ohm.
The price would certainly be right (In USA $2.5 for a NOS tube from ETE,
$3.10 from AES, for example).
There is a 10V heater equivalent of EL84 also, called 10BQ5 (=YL84),
something that many have discovered to use instead of the NOS EL84
valves, so they are harder to get and a little more expensive (In USA $
3.00 at ETE, and $ 5.00 at SND). This second valve is more linear in my
opinion, but opinions differ...
That will give you same power output of 2W at a little higher plate
voltage of 250V and a plate load of 3500 ohm.
Maybe this would be something you had in mind.
Regards,
Andrej Deticek
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: 10V valves
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:11:23 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n445
Thanks to all who have helped. It has been an interesting thread. I will
look firstly into the valves with higher plate voltage, because that would
enable me to use the tube as a treble amp but run it off the same B+ (1100V)
as the main amp (845 monoblocks, just getting started) without too large a
dropper resistor. This is not essential but it would be kind of neat because
it saves building another power supply.
And no, I am not going to use the 833!!!
If you have any further thoughts, please let me know.
Grant
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
=========================================================================
From: "Riesz, Ted - PETFISH" <Ted.Riesz@mailhost.dpie.gov.au>
Subject: RE: 10V valves
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:59:31 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n445
I have some 11BM8s ( a 11v version of 6BM8) presumably used in transformerless TV's, the bane of man
y a tech.
Would the 1 v diff in filament voltage be a problem. This is in recognition of the earlier discussi
on of the downsides in filament undervoltage?
Regards
Ted Riesz
=========================================================================
From: Peter Sikking <peter.sikking@amc.de>
Subject: 10(Y) curves...
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:03:36 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n260
Hi Joesters,
If anybody has got platecurves and plate resistance curves for the
10 or 10Y triode, I would be most grateful if I could obtain a copy.
Also I would like to hear from people who have used it whether it
is a tricky tube to use.
Thanks,
--Peter
music lover, ultra-fi builder, GUI designer & developer, on drums...
from:amsterdam@ulm.germany +49 731 505 1540 facsimile +49 731 505 1839
=========================================================================
From: Philippe <Cadique@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Re: 10(Y) curves...
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:29:46 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n261
Peter Sikking wrote:
>
> Hi Joesters,
>
> If anybody has got platecurves and plate resistance curves for the
> 10 or 10Y triode, I would be most grateful if I could obtain a copy.
hi Peter
I'v got the 10y RCA characteristics in an old book (P.H. Brans
Vademecum 1948).
There are no curves, only characteristics.
I you are interested, I can scan the page and send it to you.
Philippe
=========================================================================
From: Ed_Fausto@colpal.com (Ed Fausto)
Subject: Re[2]: 10 (Y) curves...
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:57:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n261
Philippe,
Send me a copy too. I got 2 pairs of brown base Sylvania 10Y with
graphite plates. Anyone who had experience using these in SE.
Ed Fausto
Ed_Fausto@colpal.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: 10(Y) curves...
Author: Philippe <Cadique@worldnet.fr> at INTERNET
Date: 4/25/98 8:29 AM
Peter Sikking wrote:
>
> Hi Joesters,
>
> If anybody has got platecurves and plate resistance curves for the
> 10 or 10Y triode, I would be most grateful if I could obtain a copy.
hi Peter
I'v got the 10y RCA characteristics in an old book (P.H. Brans
Vademecum 1948).
There are no curves, only characteristics.
I you are interested, I can scan the page and send it to you.
Philippe
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: 12.8KV transformers, anyone?
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:05:49 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n249
I know it's a long shot, but ... in the pile of muck to be disposed of
here at the university, I spotted a pair of new Sperry transformers, with
secondaries of 6400-0-6400, 44ma. There was another winding at a more
modest 1.5kv, lower current. I can't figure out what anyone would do
with these, but if someone wants them they can let me know. There seems
to be a surplus of atomic absorption photospectrometers, too. Or was
that spectrophotometers? They actually disposed of an electron
microscope, I'm told. I found a perfectly good 6L6GC blackplate in
something equally unpronounceable, so you never know.
On a less exotic note, I found a cool reg. PS with digital readout, so am
thinking I can part with an Oregon tube unit, dual supply 0-600 vdc, up
to 500 ma, and adj. bias supply to -150. Uses SIX 807s and more. Pickup
only. Also have extra variacs. And more weird PS's.
Rick Francis, rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu
=========================================================================
From: Mattijs de Vries <mdevries@avvt.com>
Subject: 12A any good?
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 16:54:57 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n417
Hello all,
I'm thinking about designing my new preap using the 12A as output tube. It
looks like a real winner to me, especially the Arcturus pair I have. The
current and plate impedance are right, the amplification is exact what I'm
looking for... As far as I know I have never seen anybody using it, also it
is never real expensive, prices look very fair. Any comments about this
tube will be most welcome! Hope to hear from you,
_______
| _____ | MachMat, Mattijs de Vries
/ | | \ Top-Fi audio equipment, Tube sales
| | ||| | | Distributor AVVT Benelux
| | ||| | | ------------------------------------------------
| | ||| | | E-mail : MdeVries@AVVT.COM (Private)
| | ||| | | MachMat@AVVT.COM (Business)
| |_____| | URL : HTTP://WWW.AVVT.COM/machmat/
\ ||| / Adress : Campuslaan 41-214, 7522 NG, Enschede
|/_|_\| Country : The Netherlands, Europe
| | Phone : 0031-53-4895091, Fax : 0031-53-4357234
|_____| ------------------------------------------------
|| || Designing is the art of making compromises.
=========================================================================
From: SHAMSUL Bahrin Kamarudin <shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my>
Subject: 12AX7 & 12AU7 substitutes ...
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:06:37 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n349
Greetings.
Just would like to know if there's any other tubes(omit their normal subs.)
that can be plugged into a 12AX7 or 12AU7 design without any modifications ?
Regards.
::-)
\\\///
/ _ _ \
(| (.)(.) |)
|--------.OOOo--()--oOOO.----------------------------------------|
mailto:shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my
mailto:0198107360@sms.celcom.com.my
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=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: 12AX7 & 12AU7 substitutes ...
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:43:22 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n350
At 12:06 20-7-98 +0800, SHAMSUL Bahrin Kamarudin wrote:
>Greetings.
>
>Just would like to know if there's any other tubes(omit their normal subs.)
>that can be plugged into a 12AX7 or 12AU7 design without any modifications ?
I like E80CC instead of ECC82 (12AU7)
Guido
>
>Regards.
>
>::-)
>
>
>
> \\\///
> / _ _ \
> (| (.)(.) |)
>|--------.OOOo--()--oOOO.----------------------------------------|
> mailto:shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my
> mailto:0198107360@sms.celcom.com.my
>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>_/ H/P: 019-8107360 TEL: 6088-244185 FAX: 6088-251679 _/
>_/ http://www.innosabah.com.my _/
>_/ ======================================================== _/
>_/ TO BECOME A LEADING HI-TECH, PEOPLE ORIENTED FINANCIAL _/
>_/ SERVICES COMPANY WHICH OFFERS WORLD CLASS _/
>_/ INNOVATIVE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES _/
>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>_/ THIS IS A | INNOSABAH SECURITIES SDN BHD (194990-K) _/
>_/ COMPUTER GENERATED | 11 EQUITY HOUSE, BLOCK K, _/
>_/ ELECTRONIC MAIL | SADONG JAYA, KARAMUNSING, _/
>_/ AND IS DEEMED TO | 88100 KOTA KINABALU, SABAH, _/
>_/ HAVE BEEN SIGNED | M A L A Y S I A _/
>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Hubert M. Bath" <bathh@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Ref:>Re: 12AX7 & 12AU7 substitutes ...
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:00:28 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n350
The way this interchange is phrased suggests that the 12AX7 and the 12AU7
are considered equivalent. Tho the envelopes are the same size, and the
pin diagrams are identical -- and hence you can plug one into a socket
designed to hold the other without (probably) anything burning up, these
two tubes are about as different as they can be. The 12AU7 is a low-medium
mu (amplification factor) tube, and the 12AX7 has a mu of 100 -- about as
high as you will find. The two tubes are anything but equivalents. This
is *not* to say that if one is substituted for another the circuit will not
"work".
Regards, Hu Bath
- ----------
> From: SHAMSUL Bahrin Kamarudin <shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my>
> To: 'JOE-NET Mailist' <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Cc: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
> Subject: Ref:>Re: 12AX7 & 12AU7 substitutes ...
> Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 18:44
>
> *** evaguido on 20/07/1998 around 9:43 PM +0200 wrote ..........
> ->At 12:06 20-7-98 +0800, SHAMSUL Bahrin Kamarudin wrote:
> ->>Greetings.
> ->>
> ->>Just would like to know if there's any other tubes(omit their normal
subs.)
> ->>that can be plugged into a 12AX7 or 12AU7 design without any
modifications ?
> ->
> ->I like E80CC instead of ECC82 (12AU7)
> ->
> Cool.
>
> Thanks for the INFO.
>
> Regards.
>
> ::-)
>
>
>
> \\\///
> / _ _ \
> (| (.)(.) |)
> |--------.OOOo--()--oOOO.----------------------------------------|
> mailto:shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my
> mailto:0198107360@sms.celcom.com.my
> _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
> _/ H/P: 019-8107360 TEL: 6088-244185 FAX: 6088-251679 _/
> _/ http://www.innosabah.com.my _/
> _/ ======================================================== _/
> _/ TO BECOME A LEADING HI-TECH, PEOPLE ORIENTED FINANCIAL _/
> _/ SERVICES COMPANY WHICH OFFERS WORLD CLASS _/
> _/ INNOVATIVE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES _/
> _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
> _/ THIS IS A | INNOSABAH SECURITIES SDN BHD (194990-K) _/
> _/ COMPUTER GENERATED | 11 EQUITY HOUSE, BLOCK K, _/
> _/ ELECTRONIC MAIL | SADONG JAYA, KARAMUNSING, _/
> _/ AND IS DEEMED TO | 88100 KOTA KINABALU, SABAH, _/
> _/ HAVE BEEN SIGNED | M A L A Y S I A _/
> _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>
>
=========================================================================
From: SHAMSUL Bahrin Kamarudin <shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my>
Subject: Ref:>Re: 12AX7 & 12AU7 substitutes ...
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:44:33 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n350
*** evaguido on 20/07/1998 around 9:43 PM +0200 wrote ..........
- ->At 12:06 20-7-98 +0800, SHAMSUL Bahrin Kamarudin wrote:
- ->>Greetings.
- ->>
- ->>Just would like to know if there's any other tubes(omit their normal subs.)
- ->>that can be plugged into a 12AX7 or 12AU7 design without any modifications ?
- ->
- ->I like E80CC instead of ECC82 (12AU7)
- ->
Cool.
Thanks for the INFO.
Regards.
::-)
\\\///
/ _ _ \
(| (.)(.) |)
|--------.OOOo--()--oOOO.----------------------------------------|
mailto:shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my
mailto:0198107360@sms.celcom.com.my
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ H/P: 019-8107360 TEL: 6088-244185 FAX: 6088-251679 _/
_/ http://www.innosabah.com.my _/
_/ ======================================================== _/
_/ TO BECOME A LEADING HI-TECH, PEOPLE ORIENTED FINANCIAL _/
_/ SERVICES COMPANY WHICH OFFERS WORLD CLASS _/
_/ INNOVATIVE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES _/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ THIS IS A | INNOSABAH SECURITIES SDN BHD (194990-K) _/
_/ COMPUTER GENERATED | 11 EQUITY HOUSE, BLOCK K, _/
_/ ELECTRONIC MAIL | SADONG JAYA, KARAMUNSING, _/
_/ AND IS DEEMED TO | 88100 KOTA KINABALU, SABAH, _/
_/ HAVE BEEN SIGNED | M A L A Y S I A _/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: 12AX7 biasing and grid current.
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:40:38 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n140
Hello everyone,
Dan Cheever (Thanks to him another time) put on his webpages 3 additionnal
pictures I gave him. The URL is:
http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/new.html
The 3 pictures are related to the 12AX7 triod (one half).
The first graph is the same as the previously available (THD versus bias and
output level) but this one shows the domains inside which H2 or H3 are dominant.
A second picture shows the evolution of the grid to cathod bias of a 12AX7
(with automatic bias) versus the output level for different values of grid
resistor and cathod resistor (in parallel on 1000 microfarads).
The third one is more general (= more independant of measurement conditions).
It shows the plate current and the grid current behaviour of the 12AX7.
IMHO, the graph Iplate versus Ugrid is the most convenient to display the
grid current.
Best regards.
=========================================================================
From: paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it (Paolo Del Giusto)
Subject: 12ax7 supply
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:14:36 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n092
Hello people,
I'm building a preamp where the filament supply of the valves, 12ax7, is
5V, to obtain a longer life for the tubes. Since I'm not so sure it is a
good idea to reduce the filament supply, I'd like to have the opinion of
the list (instead of wasting time, bandwidth and health in useless
discussions).
Thanks
- ----------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------------------
- ----------------------------------------------------------
- ----------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------------------
- ----------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Richard Jones <rcjones@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:47:15 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
At 06:14 PM 10/28/97 +0100, you wrote:
> Hello people,
>I'm building a preamp where the filament supply of the valves, 12ax7, is
>5V, to obtain a longer life for the tubes. Since I'm not so sure it is a
>good idea to reduce the filament supply, I'd like to have the opinion of
>the list (instead of wasting time, bandwidth and health in useless
>discussions).
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>----------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------------------
>----------------------------------------------------------
>----------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------------------
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Those tubes are so common and cheap that you may as well go with the full
filament supply voltage on them.. i think you'd have better consistency and
performance at the recommended filament settings.
Rich
=========================================================================
From: Michel Paquette <paqm01@GEL.USherb.CA>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:41:52 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
Paolo said:
> Hello people,
>I'm building a preamp where the filament supply of the valves, 12ax7, is
>5V, to obtain a longer life for the tubes. Since I'm not so sure it is a
>good idea to reduce the filament supply, I'd like to have the opinion of
>the list (instead of wasting time, bandwidth and health in useless
>discussions).
>
The tubes will certainly last longer but think the transconductance is also
lower (not that it's very high with this tube to begin with...).
Michel
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:39:23 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
At 6:14 PM +0100 10/28/97, Paolo Del Giusto wrote:
> Hello people,
>I'm building a preamp where the filament supply of the valves, 12ax7, is
>5V, to obtain a longer life for the tubes. Since I'm not so sure it is a
>good idea to reduce the filament supply, I'd like to have the opinion of
>the list (instead of wasting time, bandwidth and health in useless
>discussions).
Er, gee, why? I think you might *reduce* the life of the tubes by running
them improperly and they certainly won't work as well. There's nothing
gained by running an indirectly-heated tube below it's correct filament
voltage. You don't want to stress a DHT filament unnecessarily, but a
12AX7 will handle 6-6.6 volts.
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:10:05 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
At 06:14 PM 10/28/97 +0100, you wrote:
> Hello people,
>I'm building a preamp where the filament supply of the valves, 12ax7, is
>5V, to obtain a longer life for the tubes. Since I'm not so sure it is a
>good idea to reduce the filament supply, I'd like to have the opinion of
>the list (instead of wasting time, bandwidth and health in useless
>discussions).
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>----------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------------------
>----------------------------------------------------------
>----------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------------------
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Somewhere, perhaps Tremayne's Audio Cyclopedia, I read that with a lower
heater voltage Gm is initially lower, but remains much more constant
through the (increased) life of the tube, while it drops steadily (but
slowly) with operation at rated voltage, so that after about 1/3 of the
tube's life, Gm is higher on the low voltage tube. I tried 7DJ8's in my
Daniel one time, but didn't leave them in long enough to learn anything
about their lifespan. JDM
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:01:37 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Grover Gardner wrote, concerning using 5v fil voltage:
> Er, gee, why? I think you might *reduce* the life of the tubes by running
> them improperly and they certainly won't work as well. There's nothing
> gained by running an indirectly-heated tube below it's correct filament
> voltage. You don't want to stress a DHT filament unnecessarily, but a
> 12AX7 will handle 6-6.6 volts.
>
How often do you see a 12AX7, or any mini tube, with a burned out
filament? The tubes go a long long time. Kevin Hayes of VAC says he came
across some old literature in which studio technicians claimed that
12AX7s sound *better* after two years of use. Get some decent tubes to
start with, give them 6.3 v, and move on to something else! You can buy
pulls for a buck each.
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:11:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
Hugh R. Dean wrote:
(snip)
>
> I understand that repeaters in deep sea cables dating all the way back to
> the twenties grossly underran their filaments in the interests of life.
> When you consider how cold it must be at the ocean floor, it makes you
> wonder if there are any penalties. I'd say carbonisation of the filament
> would be one.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hugh R. Dean
> Melbourne, Australia
Wow! Tubes under the sea! OK, where's Doc Bottlehead? We ned him to
organise the first annual "Valves Under the Waves" expedition!
:-)
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@shore.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:50:48 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
At 01:01 AM 10/29/97 -0500, Rick Francis wrote:
>
>Kevin Hayes of VAC says he came
>across some old literature in which studio technicians claimed that
>12AX7s sound *better* after two years of use.
That's probably because the gm drops, dropping the open loop gain, so that
the actual amount of negative feedback drops, thus improving the sound. Or
am I being overly cynical?
JL
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:16:32
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
>On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Grover Gardner wrote, concerning using 5v fil voltage:
>
>> Er, gee, why? I think you might *reduce* the life of the tubes by running
>> them improperly and they certainly won't work as well. There's nothing
>> gained by running an indirectly-heated tube below it's correct filament
>> voltage. You don't want to stress a DHT filament unnecessarily, but a
>> 12AX7 will handle 6-6.6 volts.
I have noticed that the voltage on 12AX7 filaments does have an impact on
the sound. Slight, but there. I run them at around 12.1 volts DC and use
a LM317T set up for slow turn-on (10s). I have not checked the 6.3 volt
configuration, but if the ratio holds, it would be 6.05V.
I understand the 300mA 6.3VAC filament of the 12AX7 is shared with the
12AT7 and the 12AU7. This demonstrates that the low current tube has heaps
of heat reserve (not emission, this tube is indirectly heated); some ten
times more perhaps than the 12AU7, which has to be sailing close to the
wind. This would help to explain the long life of the 12AX7.
I understand that repeaters in deep sea cables dating all the way back to
the twenties grossly underran their filaments in the interests of life.
When you consider how cold it must be at the ocean floor, it makes you
wonder if there are any penalties. I'd say carbonisation of the filament
would be one.
Cheers,
Hugh R. Dean
Melbourne, Australia
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:45:40 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
>
> Wow! Tubes under the sea! OK, where's Doc Bottlehead? We ned him to
> organise the first annual "Valves Under the Waves" expedition!
>
> :-)
>
> S.G.
>
Well, Dyes jnmm nmnm
ooops, sorry, just dripped cinnamon bun goop all over the n & m keys
Dyes inlet, which the Silverdale hotel sits by, is currently populated with
a pod of orcas, but hopefully by next VSAC we can launch our full auto
skeet tubes over the inlet, then send Currie and Ronan in to retrieve the
misses
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@bfm.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:26:58 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
Hi all,
I experienced quite a ride the last two days: first Wall St. decided to have
a 15%-off sale (hey, just like Bloomies does!), then yesterday, at the worst
possible time, my company lost all net connectivity (some phones, too).
Thanks, Bell Atlantic (trunk cable went out). But we're finally back, and
the e-mail is trickling in....
On Oct 28, 6:14pm, Paolo Del Giusto wrote:
> I'm building a preamp where the filament supply of the valves, 12ax7, is
> 5V, to obtain a longer life for the tubes. Since I'm not so sure it is a
> good idea to reduce the filament supply, I'd like to have the opinion of
> the list (instead of wasting time, bandwidth and health in useless
> discussions).
I'd say run them at full rated voltage. Or, run them *hotter* if you would
like; as Rick points out in a later message, these tubes are cheap.
One thing to note about full rated voltage: probably the right way to run a
tube filament is at full rated *power*; that is, measure the voltage drop
across the filament, and the current drawn by the filament, then multiply and
compare to the tube spec. Adjust until the power figure is on target (or
hotter if you like). This WILL burn your tubes out (slightly) faster than
the usual approach (because with this approach, as the filament R increases
with life, you would bump the voltage to maintain the same power), but again,
these tubes are cheap.
On Oct 29, 12:10am, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
> Somewhere, perhaps Tremayne's Audio Cyclopedia, I read that with a lower
> heater voltage Gm is initially lower, but remains much more constant
> through the (increased) life of the tube, while it drops steadily (but
> slowly) with operation at rated voltage, so that after about 1/3 of the
> tube's life, Gm is higher on the low voltage tube. I tried 7DJ8's in my
> Daniel one time, but didn't leave them in long enough to learn anything
> about their lifespan. JDM
This is correct; it is a side-benefit of the reduced emission preserving the
emitting surface of the cathode. The cathode erosion/poisoning is still
occuring, though at a slower rate, thanks to the reduced emission. The more
stable decline in Gm is paid for, though, in reduced Gm, as compared with a
tube which is maintained at the design filament power. When compared with a
tube where no compensation for increased filament R is made over the life of
the tube, Gm on the "starved" tube will indeed be higher through much of the
life span.
On Oct 29, 7:16pm, Hugh R. Dean wrote:
> I have noticed that the voltage on 12AX7 filaments does have an impact on
> the sound. Slight, but there. I run them at around 12.1 volts DC and use
> a LM317T set up for slow turn-on (10s). I have not checked the 6.3 volt
> configuration, but if the ratio holds, it would be 6.05V.
An interesting observation! The slow turn-on is essential to preserving tube
life, IMHO, especially when running a filament (properly) on a voltage
source.
I have found that some tubes are very sensitive to the filament power, others
less so; tubes can either want more or less filament power, too. The
filament of a tube is surprisingly complex, and I don't fully understand it
yet, but I can relate what I do know:
o It is most important to not starve the tube by running at too low a
filament voltage. Tube starvation will vastly shorten the life of the tube,
and will give crappy sound to boot -- when starved, the tube characteristics
are very affected, and clipping will be much harder.
o The filament power changes the size of the space charge in the vicinity of
the cathode; this changes the Gm and also impacts the tube capacitances.
o The size of the filament structure in a tube, and the impedance of the
filament power supply, determine how the cathode of the tube will respond to
sudden changes in plate current. The time constant is surprisingly small:
10-100msec or so for small signal indirectly heated tubes. (Yes, this does
indeed mean that bass frequencies can be very strongly impacted by the
filament supply, as Bill Hewlett first [I believe] noted in his Stanford
doctoral dissertation on the design of a low distortion sine wave oscilator
- -- the future HP200A!)
> I understand the 300mA 6.3VAC filament of the 12AX7 is shared with the
> 12AT7 and the 12AU7. This demonstrates that the low current tube has heaps
> of heat reserve (not emission, this tube is indirectly heated); some ten
> times more perhaps than the 12AU7, which has to be sailing close to the
> wind. This would help to explain the long life of the 12AX7.
Right, absolutely. It is very interesting to compare heater power to plate
current; many, many tubes share heater structures, but with different plate
current ratings. For a given heater power, the less plate current you run,
the better the cathode emission response will be (greater "heat reserve" as
Hugh points out). This, of course, must be traded off against the benefits
of running high but more stable current. And the benefits of a lower heat
reserve, but a more stable emission over the life of the tube. In any case,
all else being equal, theory says to me that a tube with more heater power
will sound better than less.
> I understand that repeaters in deep sea cables dating all the way back to
> the twenties grossly underran their filaments in the interests of life.
> When you consider how cold it must be at the ocean floor, it makes you
> wonder if there are any penalties. I'd say carbonisation of the filament
> would be one.
I hear there are scads slightly-used 300B's just lying around down there,
waiting to be picked up...! (Seriously, it's an interesting question of how
they designed for undersea service, but I don't know anything about it.)
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:37:31 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
When worrying about the life of your tubes, ask WHY you are worried. If
you're trying to salvage some priceless old Telefunken "Diamond", maybe
you should consider using something CHEAP!!!
Find a good modern-production replacement 12AX7... most are just a few
bucks. Pay extra for RAM or Golden Dragon matching if needed. Burn 'em
wide open, and throw them away when they die. Haul out that vintage magic
tube for special occasions. Better yet, A/B it with the new tubes and see
how much better it really is!
- -dave
By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete.
Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly.
Venus De Milo.
To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */
-Charles Fort
=========================================================================
From: tronan@orion.it.luc.edu (Thomas Ronan)
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:44:25 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
At 9:45 AM 10/29/97, Bottlehead wrote:
>>
>> Wow! Tubes under the sea! OK, where's Doc Bottlehead? We ned him to
>> organise the first annual "Valves Under the Waves" expedition!
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> S.G.
>>
>
>Well, Dyes jnmm nmnm
>
>ooops, sorry, just dripped cinnamon bun goop all over the n & m keys
>
>Dyes inlet, which the Silverdale hotel sits by, is currently populated with
>a pod of orcas, but hopefully by next VSAC we can launch our full auto
>skeet tubes over the inlet, then send Currie and Ronan in to retrieve the
>misses
>
>Doc B.
I like swimming! I'll do anything you bug guys say. Don't say my mom
didn't teach me to respect his elders. *grin*
Tom
- ------
Thomas Ronan tronan@orion.it.luc.edu
1045 W. Montana, Chicago, IL 60614 773.528.0882
Lowther Club of America, Chicago Representative
=========================================================================
From: tronan@orion.it.luc.edu (Thomas Ronan)
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:33:34 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
>When worrying about the life of your tubes, ask WHY you are worried. If
>you're trying to salvage some priceless old Telefunken "Diamond", maybe
>you should consider using something CHEAP!!!
>
>Find a good modern-production replacement 12AX7... most are just a few
>bucks. Pay extra for RAM or Golden Dragon matching if needed. Burn 'em
>wide open, and throw them away when they die. Haul out that vintage magic
>tube for special occasions. Better yet, A/B it with the new tubes and see
>how much better it really is!
Dave,
I disagree. Take that vintage tube, and burn them however you would like.
Use them all the time! We only live once, and life is too short. Use it
while you got it, and then spend some fun time at hamfests and looking
around to see if you can find some more from time to time. What the hell
man!
Tom
- ------
Thomas Ronan tronan@orion.it.luc.edu
1045 W. Montana, Chicago, IL 60614 773.528.0882
Lowther Club of America, Chicago Representative
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:59:13 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
John Levreault wrote:
>
> At 01:01 AM 10/29/97 -0500, Rick Francis wrote:
> >
>
> >Kevin Hayes of VAC says he came
> >across some old literature in which studio technicians claimed that
> >12AX7s sound *better* after two years of use.
>
> That's probably because the gm drops, dropping the open loop gain, so that
> the actual amount of negative feedback drops, thus improving the sound. Or
> am I being overly cynical?
>
> JL
Cynical? no. Maybe it's because as the gm drops the tubes are pressed
into overload less often. A lot of studio types aren't happy unless they
can hear the VU meters hit the pins with the beat of the music, you
know.
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:42:53 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
Finn Hammer wrote:
>
> Scott Grammer wrote:
>
> >
> > Wow! Tubes under the sea! OK, where's Doc Bottlehead? We ned him to
> > organise the first annual "Valves Under the Waves" expedition!
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > S.G.
>
> Yeah! And what will he find: "The _DAMPEST_ triodes" :-D
Just the thing for those loosey-goosey woofers that need more -DAMP-ing
factor!
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:56:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
No truer words spoken.
GM
- -----Original Message-----
>Dave,
>
>I disagree. Take that vintage tube, and burn them however you would like.
>Use them all the time! We only live once, and life is too short. Use it
>while you got it, and then spend some fun time at hamfests and looking
>around to see if you can find some more from time to time. What the hell
>man!
>
>Tom
>
>------
>Thomas Ronan tronan@orion.it.luc.edu
>1045 W. Montana, Chicago, IL 60614 773.528.0882
>Lowther Club of America, Chicago Representative
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:58:28 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
Scott Grammer wrote:
>
> Wow! Tubes under the sea! OK, where's Doc Bottlehead? We ned him to
> organise the first annual "Valves Under the Waves" expedition!
>
> :-)
>
> S.G.
Yeah! And what will he find: "The _DAMPEST_ triodes" :-D
- --
HOME OF
Tractrix Horns, Tube Amps,
Fieldcoil Loudspeakers and Computer Graphics
http://home5.inet.tele.dk/f-hammer/
=========================================================================
From: Guido Tent <gtent@ehv.sc.philips.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:28:32 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
At 18:14 28-10-97 +0100, Paolo Del Giusto wrote:
> Hello people,
>I'm building a preamp where the filament supply of the valves, 12ax7, is
>5V, to obtain a longer life for the tubes. Since I'm not so sure it is a
>good idea to reduce the filament supply, I'd like to have the opinion of
>the list (instead of wasting time, bandwidth and health in useless
>discussions).
NEVER deviate from 6.3 V. If you do, go to 6.2 or so, but any other will
SHORTEN the life
(I can advise a report on this subject, it is in English, reported from a
discusion that I initiated in Holland, between audio designers (tubes) and a
Philips man who is a specialist on emission
If interested I'll supply you the address were to get
Guido
>Thanks
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>----------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------------------
>----------------------------------------------------------
>----------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------------------
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
"to be EMC or not to be EMC, that's the question"
Guido Tent
Engineer
Electro Magnetic Compatibility
Philips Semiconductors Systems Laboratory Eindhoven (PS-SLE)
Building BE303, (Hurksestraat 19)
P.O.Box 218, 5600MD Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-40-27 24553
fax : +31-40-27 22764
E-mail: guido.tent@ehv.sc.philips.com
Seri : gtent@nlsce1
- - Let's make things better ! -
=========================================================================
From: Guido Tent <gtent@ehv.sc.philips.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:29:29 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
At 13:41 28-10-97 -0400, Michel Paquette wrote:
>Paolo said:
>
>> Hello people,
>>I'm building a preamp where the filament supply of the valves, 12ax7, is
>>5V, to obtain a longer life for the tubes. Since I'm not so sure it is a
>>good idea to reduce the filament supply, I'd like to have the opinion of
>>the list (instead of wasting time, bandwidth and health in useless
>>discussions).
>>
>
>The tubes will certainly last longer but think the transconductance is also
>lower (not that it's very high with this tube to begin with...).
Sorry Michel, they do not last longer (think in the chemistry inside)
Guido
>Michel
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Guido Tent <gtent@ehv.sc.philips.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:53:04 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
At 19:16 29-10-97, Hugh R. Dean wrote:
>>On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Grover Gardner wrote, concerning using 5v fil voltage:
>>
>>> Er, gee, why? I think you might *reduce* the life of the tubes by running
>>> them improperly and they certainly won't work as well. There's nothing
>>> gained by running an indirectly-heated tube below it's correct filament
>>> voltage. You don't want to stress a DHT filament unnecessarily, but a
>>> 12AX7 will handle 6-6.6 volts.
>
>
>I have noticed that the voltage on 12AX7 filaments does have an impact on
>the sound.
Bingo !
>Slight, but there. I run them at around 12.1 volts DC and use
>a LM317T set up for slow turn-on (10s). I have not checked the 6.3 volt
>configuration, but if the ratio holds, it would be 6.05V.
Very well ! I like it around 6.2 V
>I understand that repeaters in deep sea cables dating all the way back to
>the twenties grossly underran their filaments in the interests of life.
>When you consider how cold it must be at the ocean floor, it makes you
>wonder if there are any penalties. I'd say carbonisation of the filament
>would be one.
Mmmh. Temperature is dominated by the heater, so to say, environment is
nearly influencing the cathode temperature
Guido
>Cheers,
>
>Hugh R. Dean
>Melbourne, Australia
>
>
>
"to be EMC or not to be EMC, that's the question"
Guido Tent
Engineer
Electro Magnetic Compatibility
Philips Semiconductors Systems Laboratory Eindhoven (PS-SLE)
Building BE303, (Hurksestraat 19)
P.O.Box 218, 5600MD Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-40-27 24553
fax : +31-40-27 22764
E-mail: guido.tent@ehv.sc.philips.com
Seri : gtent@nlsce1
- - Let's make things better ! -
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:02:09 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
** Reply to note from Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net> Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:37:31 -0600 (CST)
>
> Find a good modern-production replacement 12AX7... most are just a few
> bucks. Pay extra for RAM or Golden Dragon matching if needed. Burn 'em
> wide open, and throw them away when they die. Haul out that vintage magic
> tube for special occasions. Better yet, A/B it with the new tubes and see
> how much better it really is!
Unfair test. I've found that old used tubes are always sound warmer and
new tubes, even after break in period, are brighter.
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:42:21 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n096
** Reply to note from pitaro@ozemail.com.au Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:02:09 EST
> Unfair test. I've found that old used tubes are always sound warmer and
> new tubes, even after break in period, are brighter.
I've excelled myself with the use of the English language this time!!!
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:44:00 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Frank Deutschmann wrote, among many good things:
> o It is most important to not starve the tube by running at too low a
> filament voltage. Tube starvation will vastly shorten the life of the tube,
> and will give crappy sound to boot -- when starved, the tube characteristics
> are very affected, and clipping will be much harder.
>
Paul "Brainiac" Joppa told me something the other day: old tube preamps
and integrateds with DC on the preamp or phono tube filaments can suffer
from low voltage. Certain old rectifiers get more resistive with age, and
cause a larger voltage drop. I don't think I've ever thought to check
that, but I will now. I forget which kind of rectifiers are prone to this.
Rick
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:35:34 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
"
> On Oct 29, 11:44am, Rick Francis wrote:
> > Paul "Brainiac" Joppa told me something the other day: old tube preamps
> > and integrateds with DC on the preamp or phono tube filaments can
suffer
> > from low voltage. Certain old rectifiers get more resistive with age,
and
> > cause a larger voltage drop. I don't think I've ever thought to check
> > that, but I will now. I forget which kind of rectifiers are prone to
this.
>
> Good point -- I'm not sure if you are talking about SS or vac rectifiers,
> but, in the case of the vac rectifiers, those tubes can become more
resitive
> with age as their filaments weaken. (The filaments of vac rectifiers are
> probably the most abused filaments in the amp, too, as without soft-start
> circuits, they are asked to imediately deliver full plate current --
which
> they can't do, as they are not yet hot. So, they sacrifice themselves to
> provide slo-start for the rest of the tubes....) This is both the
filaments
> burning up, and filaments being damaged by the imediate B+ they see when
> still cold.
>
> -frank
I'm pretty sure Paul is referring to the fact that old selenium rectifiers,
ala the PAS 3 filament supply, drop about 15% in their voltage output over
time.
Get rid of them!
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@bfm.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:51:13 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
On Oct 29, 11:44am, Rick Francis wrote:
> Paul "Brainiac" Joppa told me something the other day: old tube preamps
> and integrateds with DC on the preamp or phono tube filaments can suffer
> from low voltage. Certain old rectifiers get more resistive with age, and
> cause a larger voltage drop. I don't think I've ever thought to check
> that, but I will now. I forget which kind of rectifiers are prone to this.
Good point -- I'm not sure if you are talking about SS or vac rectifiers,
but, in the case of the vac rectifiers, those tubes can become more resitive
with age as their filaments weaken. (The filaments of vac rectifiers are
probably the most abused filaments in the amp, too, as without soft-start
circuits, they are asked to imediately deliver full plate current -- which
they can't do, as they are not yet hot. So, they sacrifice themselves to
provide slo-start for the rest of the tubes....) This is both the filaments
burning up, and filaments being damaged by the imediate B+ they see when
still cold.
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
> I'm pretty sure Paul is referring to the fact that old selenium rectifiers,
> ala the PAS 3 filament supply, drop about 15% in their voltage output over
> time.
> Get rid of them!
But be carefull, because silicon diodes have a significantly lower
Vf (forward voltage drop) than do, even healthy, selenium devices.
You will have to add series resistance to drop the voltage down to
spec for the load, which is a good idea anyway since it will current
limit the turn on surge.
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:11:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
Rick Francis wrote:
> Paul "Brainiac" Joppa told me something the other day: old tube preamps
> and integrateds with DC on the preamp or phono tube filaments can suffer
> from low voltage. Certain old rectifiers get more resistive with age, and
> cause a larger voltage drop. I don't think I've ever thought to check
> that, but I will now. I forget which kind of rectifiers are prone to this.
>
> Rick
Selenium. If you replace one of these, be careful not to break it. If
you do, don't touch the insides with bare hands. Selenium is plenty
poisonous, and can be absorbed through the skin. That's why they are
usually dipped in paint. (Dyna's had selenium bias rectifiers that were
unpainted.)
S.G.
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:58:06 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
> > I'm pretty sure Paul is referring to the fact that old selenium
rectifiers,
> > ala the PAS 3 filament supply, drop about 15% in their voltage output
over
> > time.
> > Get rid of them!
>
> But be carefull, because silicon diodes have a significantly lower
> Vf (forward voltage drop) than do, even healthy, selenium devices.
> You will have to add series resistance to drop the voltage down to
> spec for the load, which is a good idea anyway since it will current
> limit the turn on surge.
>
> -grego
Well, the PAS runs the fils too damn low anyway, like 11V.
So there.
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David N. Barnett)
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:55:53 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:44:00 -0500 (EST), Rick Francis
<rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU> wrote:
>Certain old rectifiers get more resistive with age, and
>cause a larger voltage drop. I don't think I've ever thought to check
>that, but I will now. I forget which kind of rectifiers are prone to this.
Selenium rectifiers certainly do this. Replacing them with silicon
devices should restore heater voltage to a healthy level. Perhaps
shottkys would be good here?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Martin E. von Lindenberg" <mvon@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 05:54:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
At 12:35 PM 10/29/97 -0800, you wrote:
>> -frank
>
>I'm pretty sure Paul is referring to the fact that old selenium rectifiers,
>ala the PAS 3 filament supply, drop about 15% in their voltage output over
>time.
>Get rid of them!
>
>Doc B.
>
Yeah, and when they short out, those suckers really stink! Much worse than
tranny meltdown, and more staying power.
Martin
mvon@erols.com
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David N. Barnett)
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:01:58 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:58:06 -0800, "Bottlehead"
<Bottlehead@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> But be carefull, because silicon diodes have a significantly lower
>> Vf (forward voltage drop) than do, even healthy, selenium devices.
>> You will have to add series resistance to drop the voltage down to
>> spec for the load, which is a good idea anyway since it will current
>> limit the turn on surge.
>>
>> -grego
>
>Well, the PAS runs the fils too damn low anyway, like 11V.
>So there.
I wuz gonna say the same thing. Ditto for Marantz 7, Mac preamps, and
most others from that era. Even if your line voltage is at 121V like
mine, instead of the nominal 115V that most old pieces were made for.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: ROBERT ROSENTHAL <RBTR@mail.rkd.snds.com>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage -Reply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:39:10 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
>Certain old rectifiers get more resistive with age, and
cause a larger voltage drop. I don't think I've ever thought
to check
that, but I will now. I forget which kind of rectifiers are
>prone to this.
Selenium ones with the fins ! Bingo !
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: 12ax7 supply--old rectifiers might cause low fil voltage -Reply
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:39:18 -0400 (AST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, ROBERT ROSENTHAL wrote:
> >Certain old rectifiers get more resistive with age, and
> cause a larger voltage drop. I don't think I've ever thought
> to check
> that, but I will now. I forget which kind of rectifiers are
> >prone to this.
>
> Selenium ones with the fins ! Bingo !
These of course were made by Cadillac in the late fifties and early
sixties
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: * 12ax7 supply - orcas
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 08:13:23 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
> Could we schedule the next VSAC when orcas are in residence? Please? Out
> here we only have cows. - Pat
>
This is a super rare occurence, they show up in Dyes inlet about as often
as Sakuma. And we know what *that* did to our schedule, huh.
Actually those poor whales are probably looking for a good body guard.
Every goober (baby we got more than our share) in Kitsap county was out in
his boat, (they estimated 150 boats at one point) chasing the poor whales
everytime they'd move to follow the salmon. I imagine they have been
handily driven away by now. People are so effing smart.
Doc B., remembering when you could share your own private Puget Sound beach
with the seals and oysters, instead of the highway noise and the septic
tank seepage.
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: * 12ax7 supply - orcas
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:29:11 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
>Dyes inlet, which the Silverdale hotel sits by, is currently populated with
>a pod of orcas, but hopefully by next VSAC we can launch our full auto
>skeet tubes over the inlet, then send Currie and Ronan in to retrieve the
>misses
>
>Doc B.
Could we schedule the next VSAC when orcas are in residence? Please? Out
here we only have cows. - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
=========================================================================
From: "Alfia Mak" <alfiamak@hkstar.com>
Subject: 12AY7/6072A
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:47:40 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n436
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BDED20.8759FD40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
Can anyone tell me how makes the best 12AY7 or 6072A ?
Thanks
- ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BDED20.8759FD40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3007.2"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Can anyone tell me how makes the =
best 12AY7 or=20
6072A ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BDED20.8759FD40--
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: 12AY7/6072A
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:10:45 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n439
At 9:47 AM +0800 10/1/98, Alfia Mak wrote:
> Hi all, Can anyone tell me how makes the best 12AY7 or 6072A ? Thanks
I can't tell you that, but I can tell you that I haven't worked with this
tube yet. It's used in Gordon's Juniors I think and the Ongaku. Steve
Bench, who posts regurlarly on RAT, has a really swell web page with some
interesting circuits. He has a 12AY7-based phono stage that I downloaded
but haven't looked at yet. he also has a line stage with a feedback volume
control. A friend of mine builds preamps using this method for volume and
I've always been interested to see how it works.
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: "Alfia Mak" <alfiamak@hkstar.com>
Subject: 12AY7A/6072A
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:03:52 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n430
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BDE93D.58DE9160
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone has graph for 12AY7A or 6072A ?
Thanks
- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BDE93D.58DE9160
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3007.2"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Does anyone has graph for 12AY7A or =
6072A=20
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BDE93D.58DE9160--
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 12AY7A/6072A
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:58:50 PDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n431
Hi all,
>Does anyone has graph for 12AY7A or 6072A ?
Looking for any kind of Valve-Data? Try:
http://www.duncanamps.simplenet.com/tubedata/tubesearch.html
Pretty much ANY Valve is on the Net.
Numerous 12AY7 Data-sheet Sources are listed there:
http://www.duncanamps.simplenet.com/cgi-bin/miva?/tubedata/search.mv+12AY7
Kind regards Thorsten.
======================================
e-mail:
Thorsten@tnt-audio.com
Visit TNT-Audio on the Web - the only advertising
free audio web-zine.
http://www.tnt-audio.com
======================================
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: 12B4A Data-sheets & curves
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:10:10 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n576
Dear Thorsten:
I have data along with about 800 of the critters. Their linearity is
RATHER variable so I curve trace every one before they go out the door.
+800V is over-spec, they'll withstand a kV and the book says max
operating B+ is 500V. But..... if you're not pulling much current......
well, they're cheap.
Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
2528 19 St. S.W., Calgary, Ab.,
Canada T2T 4X3
Ph. 1 403 244 4434 Fx. 1 403 244 9026
- ----------
>From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
>To: sound@deliverator.io.com
>Subject: 12B4A Data-shhets or curves anyone?
>Date: Thu, Jan 14, 1999, 2:11 PM
>
>Hi all,
>
>Now the basic Data (limits and one operating are available on the net
>easily. But has anyone got a set of curves?
>
>I have a particulary nutty project in my drawer that reqires at least
>800V Peak-Peak Swing from the Driver.... Not much current though. And
>with 500V+B the 12B4A from the basic Data looks like it qualifies if
>Choke/IT Loaded....
>
>Kind regards Thorsten.
>
>======================================
>e-mail:
>Thorsten@tnt-audio.com
>
>Visit TNT-Audio on the Web - the only advertising
>free audio web-zine.
>
>http://www.tnt-audio.com
>======================================
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: 12B4A Data-sheets & curves
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:42:00 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n576
- ----------
> From: PEARL Cust Serv <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: 12B4A Data-sheets & curves
> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:10 AM
>
> Dear Thorsten:
> I have data along with about 800 of the critters. Their linearity is
> RATHER variable so I curve trace every one before they go out the door.
> +800V is over-spec, they'll withstand a kV and the book says max
> operating B+ is 500V. But..... if you're not pulling much current......
> well, they're cheap.
>
Bill,
Is it any good wired as a cathode follower?
Johari
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: 12B4A Data-shhets or curves anyone?
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:11:46 PST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n575
Hi all,
Now the basic Data (limits and one operating are available on the net
easily. But has anyone got a set of curves?
I have a particulary nutty project in my drawer that reqires at least
800V Peak-Peak Swing from the Driver.... Not much current though. And
with 500V+B the 12B4A from the basic Data looks like it qualifies if
Choke/IT Loaded....
Kind regards Thorsten.
======================================
e-mail:
Thorsten@tnt-audio.com
Visit TNT-Audio on the Web - the only advertising
free audio web-zine.
http://www.tnt-audio.com
======================================
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: 12B4A Data-shhets or curves anyone?
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:47:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n577
"T. Loesch" wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Now the basic Data (limits and one operating are available on the net
> easily. But has anyone got a set of curves?
>
> I have a particulary nutty project in my drawer that reqires at least
> 800V Peak-Peak Swing from the Driver.... Not much current though. And
> with 500V+B the 12B4A from the basic Data looks like it qualifies if
> Choke/IT Loaded....
Great sounding tube, BTW. Makes a terrific line stage.
JL
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: 12B4A Data-shhets or curves anyone?
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:21:04 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n577
John Levreault wrote:
>
> "T. Loesch" wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Now the basic Data (limits and one operating are available on the net
> > easily. But has anyone got a set of curves?
> >
> > I have a particulary nutty project in my drawer that reqires at least
> > 800V Peak-Peak Swing from the Driver.... Not much current though. And
> > with 500V+B the 12B4A from the basic Data looks like it qualifies if
> > Choke/IT Loaded....
>
> Great sounding tube, BTW. Makes a terrific line stage.
>
> JL
Except for the microphonics (in all the various brands I've tried...)
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com --
http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: 12BH7
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:34:14 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n203
On 27 Feb 98 Steve Van Osdell said:
> Will a plain 12BH7 work in place of 12BH7A? What was difference?
One of them is a Canadian tube. That's why it has the "eh?" on the
end (eh?) :-))
Sorry, it's a slow Friday afternoon and I couldn't resist (eh?)
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: 12BH7
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:42:28 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n203
Will a plain 12BH7 work in place of 12BH7A? What was difference?
Steve
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: 12BV7 = mu 10,000
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:34:59 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n343
My RCA manuals list this tube as equivalent to the 12BY7A, in fact I
have tubes which carry both numbers. Neither my RCA or GE manuals give
an amplification factor for either tube... The 12BY7A is used in the HK
Citation II, and provides a voltage gain of about 50 with a 7.5K plate
load in the CItation II.
Peace
pitaro@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was looking through my valve book the other day and found a tube called
> a 12BV7. It's listed as a video amplifier, high slope RF pentode. What
> caught my eye was that it has an amplification factor of 10,000!!
>
> Any body used this sort of tube as a voltage amplifier? It might be great
> as a phono amp? Has anyone used a similar sort of tube for this sort of
> application?
>
> Other details are as follows:
>
> Octal base
> Cathode: 12.6/6.3 V and 0.3/0.6 A
> Plate volt: 250
> Plate current: 27mA
> Grid Bias: Cathode resistor 68ohm, Plate Current=20uA at -12V
> Screen Volt: 150
> Screen Current: 6mA
> Mutual Cond.: 13,000
> Amp. Factor: 10,000
> Plate resist.: 0.085 Mohm
> Grid Plate cap.:0.055uuF
>
>
> Regards,
> Harry Pitaro
> +-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
> | Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
> | | Short enough to retain interest |
> | pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
> +-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: 12BV7 = mu 10,000
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:44:51 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n343
Hi all,
I was looking through my valve book the other day and found a tube called
a 12BV7. It's listed as a video amplifier, high slope RF pentode. What
caught my eye was that it has an amplification factor of 10,000!!
Any body used this sort of tube as a voltage amplifier? It might be great
as a phono amp? Has anyone used a similar sort of tube for this sort of
application?
Other details are as follows:
Octal base
Cathode: 12.6/6.3 V and 0.3/0.6 A
Plate volt: 250
Plate current: 27mA
Grid Bias: Cathode resistor 68ohm, Plate Current=20uA at -12V
Screen Volt: 150
Screen Current: 6mA
Mutual Cond.: 13,000
Amp. Factor: 10,000
Plate resist.: 0.085 Mohm
Grid Plate cap.:0.055uuF
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: 12BV7 = mu 10,000
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:33:44 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n343
- ----------
> De : pitaro@ozemail.com.au
> A : sound@deliverator.io.com
> Objet : 12BV7 = mu 10,000
> Date : mercredi 15 juillet 1998 15:44
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was looking through my valve book the other day and found a tube called
> a 12BV7. It's listed as a video amplifier, high slope RF pentode. What
> caught my eye was that it has an amplification factor of 10,000!!
Dear Harry,
I think the value of 10000 is somewhat eroneous.
My good book says 1000 and this is more in accordance with the estimation
we can calculate from the internal impeadance and the transconductance of
the tube.
my book gives:
12BV7
transconductance = 13 mA/volt
internal impedance = 850000 ohms
The formula for the estimation of the amplification factor (= mu) of the
tube from the transconductance and the internal impedance is:
amplification factor = internal impedance x transconductance / 1000
(nota: the divisor equal to 1000 is to convert the transconductance from
mA/volt to A/volt).
That formula gives 1105 as estimation of the amplification factor of the
12BV7.
Such high values of the amplification factor are quite normal for pentodes
due to their very high internal impedance.(specially for HF pentodes)
some examples:
EF37A = 4500
EF40 = 4625
EF86 = 4625
> Any body used this sort of tube as a voltage amplifier? It might be great
> as a phono amp? Has anyone used a similar sort of tube for this sort of
> application?
Unfortunately this amplification can only be achieved at constant current,
also you have noise and distortion spectrum content problems...this reduces
a lot the advantages of such amplification factor in audio.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <Tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: 12BV7 = mu 10,000
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:47:01 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n344
pitaro@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was looking through my valve book the other day and found a tube called
> a 12BV7. It's listed as a video amplifier, high slope RF pentode. What
> caught my eye was that it has an amplification factor of 10,000!!
>
> Any body used this sort of tube as a voltage amplifier? It might be great
> as a phono amp? Has anyone used a similar sort of tube for this sort of
> application?
>
> Other details are as follows:
>
> Octal base
> Cathode: 12.6/6.3 V and 0.3/0.6 A
> Plate volt: 250
> Plate current: 27mA
> Grid Bias: Cathode resistor 68ohm, Plate Current=20uA at -12V
> Screen Volt: 150
> Screen Current: 6mA
> Mutual Cond.: 13,000
> Amp. Factor: 10,000
> Plate resist.: 0.085 Mohm
> Grid Plate cap.:0.055uuF
>
>
> Regards,
> Harry Pitaro
>
Hi
I have a pair of amplifiers that use that tube (12BY7, the same tube) at
the input stage. They are made by Khron-Hite Uh-101 "Ultra low
Distortion Labratory Power Amplifier". (Khron-Hite makes test equipment)
The amplifiers have 2, 5R4's, 2, 6U8's and 4, KT-88's and is rated for
35wrms at .001% from a few HZ to 80KHZ or so as I recall. hey also have
a significant amount of "headroom" before clipping.
If interested, I will search for the schematic.
Best Regards,
Tom
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: 12BV7 = mu 10,000 NOW KronHite Amps
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:20:47 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n344
On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Thomas Danley wrote:
> I have a pair of amplifiers that use that tube (12BY7, the same tube) at
> the input stage. They are made by Khron-Hite Uh-101 "Ultra low
> Distortion Labratory Power Amplifier". (Khron-Hite makes test equipment)
> The amplifiers have 2, 5R4's, 2, 6U8's and 4, KT-88's and is rated for
> 35wrms at .001% from a few HZ to 80KHZ or so as I recall. hey also have
> a significant amount of "headroom" before clipping.
> If interested, I will search for the schematic.
Tom, how do those amps sound? Are there multiple feedback loops plus
global feedback? There is some old Kron-Hite equipment around the
university here, though I've only heard OF these amps, never seen them. I
think I have an old KH tube PS...
Rick
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: 12BV7 = mu 10,000 NOW KronHite Amps
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:27:30 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n348
At 22:20 15-7-98 -0400, Rick Francis wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Thomas Danley wrote:
>
>> I have a pair of amplifiers that use that tube (12BY7, the same tube) at
>> the input stage. They are made by Khron-Hite Uh-101 "Ultra low
>> Distortion Labratory Power Amplifier". (Khron-Hite makes test equipment)
>> The amplifiers have 2, 5R4's, 2, 6U8's and 4, KT-88's and is rated for
>> 35wrms at .001% from a few HZ to 80KHZ or so as I recall. hey also have
>> a significant amount of "headroom" before clipping.
35 W is 35 W. Were is the headroom ?
Guido
>> If interested, I will search for the schematic.
>
>Tom, how do those amps sound? Are there multiple feedback loops plus
>global feedback? There is some old Kron-Hite equipment around the
>university here, though I've only heard OF these amps, never seen them. I
>think I have an old KH tube PS...
>
>Rick
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Michel Paquette <paqm01@GEL.USherb.CA>
Subject: Re: 12BV7 = mu 10,000 NOW KronHite Amps
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:07:15 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n356
I had one of those but it was a basket case. Anyway, it was rated
conservately: mine gave over 100 Watts at 1 kHz. yeooow!
Deafboy
On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, evaguido wrote:
> At 22:20 15-7-98 -0400, Rick Francis wrote:
> >On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Thomas Danley wrote:
> >
> >> I have a pair of amplifiers that use that tube (12BY7, the same tube) at
> >> the input stage. They are made by Khron-Hite Uh-101 "Ultra low
> >> Distortion Labratory Power Amplifier". (Khron-Hite makes test equipment)
> >> The amplifiers have 2, 5R4's, 2, 6U8's and 4, KT-88's and is rated for
> >> 35wrms at .001% from a few HZ to 80KHZ or so as I recall. hey also have
> >> a significant amount of "headroom" before clipping.
>
> 35 W is 35 W. Were is the headroom ?
>
> Guido
>
> >> If interested, I will search for the schematic.
> >
> >Tom, how do those amps sound? Are there multiple feedback loops plus
> >global feedback? There is some old Kron-Hite equipment around the
> >university here, though I've only heard OF these amps, never seen them. I
> >think I have an old KH tube PS...
> >
> >Rick
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
From: "Cameron Brook" <cambrook@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: 12SX7 specs
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:32:19 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n398
Hi everyone,
I am interested in finding more information about the 12SX7 aftere reading
Eric Barbour's article in VTV. Does anyone know where I can get specs?
Has anyone tried using this in a linestage or similar?
Thanks,
Cameron
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: 12SX7 specs
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:16:15 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n400
Cameron Brook wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am interested in finding more information about the 12SX7 aftere reading
> Eric Barbour's article in VTV. Does anyone know where I can get specs?
>
> Has anyone tried using this in a linestage or similar?
It's pretty much the same as a 6SN7, but 12-v only filament. It was
included in Tim Lollar's preamp "tube tasting" at VSAC last weekend.
It will take a few weeks, but I'll try to post a summary of the
results once they are compiled.
btw, Tim says they've gotten hard to find since Eric's article.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Steve_Apex_JR <steve.apexjr@mci2000.com>
Subject: 15,000Mfd 75V Caps
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:18:29 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n014
I have in stock....Spraque Powerlytic 36DY 15,000Mfd 75V Computer Grade
Caps 2 1/2" Dia and 2 1/4" High .. NEW. They are listed on my webpage at
www.aviastar.net/apexjr Thanks for reading Steve
=========================================================================
From: Steve_Apex_JR <steve.apexjr@mci2000.com>
Subject: 15,000Mfd 75VDC Caps
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:12:29 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n012
I have in stock Spraque Powerlytic # 36DY 15,000 Mfd 75VDC Computer
Grade Caps 2 1/2" Dia and 2 1/4" High ... They will be listed on
my website hopefully tomorrow..... www.aviastar.net/apexjr
Thanks for reading Steve steve.apexjr@mci2000.com
=========================================================================
From: Ed Johnson <rb1304@alltel.net>
Subject: 1570 mods
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 22:33:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n555
Anyone got some mods they might pass along on the altec 1570 besides
the ones posted in the vacuum tube valley mag that came out some issues
back?
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: 15uF, 1000V Cap dimensions
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 22:41:32 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n545
Dear Bart:
The Sprague, NOS/NOB, 15uf, 1000V, paper-in-mineral oil capacitor is
4.63" high, 3.75" wide and 2.5" front-to-back. It has 2 - 10/32 male
connectors on the top, each is embedded in a porcelain insulator .5" high,
total weigh is 2.2#. 140 pcs are available @ $US20.00ea 10-99 (10 pc min),
$US15.00ea 100-up
Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
2528 19 St. S.W., Calgary, Ab.,
Canada T2T 4X3
Ph. 1 403 244 4434 Fx. 1 403 244 9026
- ----------
>From: "Bart Shepherd" <bart.shepherd@ttm.com.sg>
>To: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
>Subject: Re: Some Cool Stuff...
>Date: Fri, Dec 18, 1998, 10:02 PM
>
>Hi Bill,
>
>What are the dimensions of the paper caps?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Snip
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: 1626
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:57:56 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n488
Edward Bell wrote:
>
> All NIB: 14 pcs. VT-137 (1626) Made by RCA for Signal Corp. $35.00 +
> shipping for the lot.
>
> 5 pcs. 6146B by GE/RCA. $75.00 + shipping for the lot.
>
> Thanks! Ed
they normally go for $3-4 each and a 14 pc lot...
his email is:
ekbell@mindspring.com
I don't know him, but love that little non-linear tube!
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com>
Subject: 1626 amp was:Re: what i did this weekend - 9/12
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:41:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n028
Frank Deutschmann wrote:
>
> On Sep 17, 3:53pm, Bob Danielak wrote:
> > SHA-Ku-Ku SHA-Ku-Ku SHTED SHTED SHTED SHA-Ku-Ku SHA-Ku-ku.....
>
> ...Every time you leave....
>
> Man, that is burned into my brain!!!! Its permanent! (I think the CD was
> Dave's, but Rick knew the group/band/etc well)
dave, rick, ...you out there? what was that cd.
i must have it!
> > after a while, dave kindly allowed me to audition one of my creations.
> > i brought out my little stereo se 1626 amp
>
> I was meaning to ask: could you tell me the details on this amp; it really was
> quite excellent!!
>
thanks, frank! see details below.
> > i usually don't go for a lot of the mysticism and emporor's clothes
> > associated with hi-fi audio. i normally wouldn't have expected
> > such a dramatic difference between tubes. after all, it's just
> > the shape of the glass, right?
>
> I think this is one of those really great things about tube audio: its just so
> damnded easy to get caught up in the technology, in how it all is analytically
> the same, and then WHAM! someone drops in a different tube, and your whole
> world changes! Has a great tendency to keep one tending towards honest and
> humble...
>
> > well, that was all the tube stuff i did this weekend. all in one night.
> > ok, so we went a few hours into the next day.
> > the ride home was fun. 2:30 AM driving out of NYC with the top
> > down. moon peeking thru the haze. radio OFF.
> > reving past 6000rpm in the holland tunnel
>
> And the moon was almost full -- as I was screaming up the hudson, about an hour
> before you....! (No convertible, but I had the sunroof open.) It was a great
> night, all around.....
>
> -frank
indeed it was. i hope we can do it again.
here's some 1626 detail:
how about an ascii schematic:
. +-------------------------------+----- Ebb (265V)
. | |
. | )|| ___
. Rp1 )||( 5K:8 ohn
. | )||(___
. +----------C1---+ )||
. | | |
. | | plate
. | +---------------grid
. | | cathode
. plate | |
. IN---+------ grid | +-------+
. | cathode | | |
. Rg1 | Rg2 Ck2 Rk2
. | Rk1||Ck1 | | |
. | | | | |
. +-------+---------------+-------+-------+---- GND
.
.
Rp1 = 100K 2W CC
Rk1 = 1K (shared with left channel)
Rg1 = 200K
Rg2 = 220K/470K (i forget)
Rk2 = 1K
Ck1 = 220u /6.3V
Ck2 = 100u
V1 = 8532
V2 = 1626
my ps is very basic: a 50 VA dual pri isolation transformer turned
around. four 1N4007's in a bridge config.
2 x 100uF frako cap (old!). relatively low value R between the two
100uF cap sections (i think 420 ohm 2W CC). this provides the B+
for both channels.
OPT' s are stolen from an old magnavox console
(or was that the motorola). in any event ther were for se 6bq5's.
i figure they are 5K into 8 ohms. i think i measured them once
a long time ago, just to make sure that they are not 5K into 4 ohms.
that's about it.
gotta run,
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: 1626 driver
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:41:25 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n218
Over the past month, I've been helping a friend breadboard some SE 300B
amps using surplus power trannies and chokes and a pair of UBT-3 OPTs. We
started with a simple, direct-coupled 6SN7 and it worked out surprisingly
well. Last week he said "I want chokes! I want iron!" referring to my
choke-loaded driver stage. I remembered that the power trannies had 12.6v
filament taps, so I thought it would be a perfect opportunity to try the
1626. He ordered some from Antique and I was pleasantly surprised to find
that these guys look like a mini 71A or 45--nice flat alloy (?) plates in a
cute little shoulder-shape package about the size of a 56. We used some
bossy old chokes for the plate load, with a direct-coupled 6SL7 input
stage. Ran the 1626s at about 22mA, maybe 220 Vp and 20 volts bias or so,
wasn't too fussy about it for starters. First off we noticed all the extra
punch and depth, and got a pretty hefty sound altogether. I'm not that
familiar with the sound of his system so it was hard to evaluate
completely, but we'll keep playing with them. Certainly seems promising!
I'm curious to see if they're capable of the "sweetness" of a DHT driver.
I'll have to grab some 12 volt trannies from Rat Shack and try them myself
as an alternative to the 46s.
In the meantime, do we have any further specs on these? I've got 250 Vp
max and 25 mA (as an oscillator), with 12.6 volts filaments, but that's all
my brief transmitting tube chart gives. Bob D. or Dave, have either of you
got more info?
=========================================================================
From: An-shyang Chu <achu@sandia.gov>
Subject: Re: 1626 driver
Date: 16 Mar 1998 11:54:51 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n219
Here is what I find in RCA transmitting tube manual (in addition to what you
already got):
heater 12.6 AC or DC @ 0.25 A
max dissp ~ 6.25 watts
capacitances: GP 4.4 pF, GK 3.2 pF and PK 3.4 pF
mu ~ 5
plate @ 250 V, 20 mA and bias at -32V (or 285V @ 21 mA -35 bias). 1400 Ohm
plate resistance and load line 5K with output ~ 1 watt.
I have the plate curves as well. These are pretty little tubes (baby 26, 71A,
45 etc.) with mono plate and octal base.
hopper
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 1626 driver
From: groverg@postoffice.att.net at hubsmtp
Date: 3/16/98 10:36 AM
Over the past month, I've been helping a friend breadboard some SE 300B
amps using surplus power trannies and chokes and a pair of UBT-3 OPTs. We
started with a simple, direct-coupled 6SN7 and it worked out surprisingly
well. Last week he said "I want chokes! I want iron!" referring to my
choke-loaded driver stage. I remembered that the power trannies had 12.6v
filament taps, so I thought it would be a perfect opportunity to try the
1626. He ordered some from Antique and I was pleasantly surprised to find
that these guys look like a mini 71A or 45--nice flat alloy (?) plates in a
cute little shoulder-shape package about the size of a 56. We used some
bossy old chokes for the plate load, with a direct-coupled 6SL7 input
stage. Ran the 1626s at about 22mA, maybe 220 Vp and 20 volts bias or so,
wasn't too fussy about it for starters. First off we noticed all the extra
punch and depth, and got a pretty hefty sound altogether. I'm not that
familiar with the sound of his system so it was hard to evaluate
completely, but we'll keep playing with them. Certainly seems promising!
I'm curious to see if they're capable of the "sweetness" of a DHT driver.
I'll have to grab some 12 volt trannies from Rat Shack and try them myself
as an alternative to the 46s.
In the meantime, do we have any further specs on these? I've got 250 Vp
max and 25 mA (as an oscillator), with 12.6 volts filaments, but that's all
my brief transmitting tube chart gives. Bob D. or Dave, have either of you
got more info?
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: 1626 driver... etc.
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:39:35 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n209
the amp as it stands now is a 3 stage with a passive switch between my AA
dde 1.0 (signal from chip) and my berger-morrison phono stage...
the signal path is:
WE437A - UTC CG-31AX IT - 1626 - NC-20 - 50 - tango permalloy output -
lowther 2A in bigfun cabs.
the 437 has 2 dcell ni-cad's in the cathode and 180V on the plate for 35ma
of current... the power supply is an 83- 3mfd solen- 8hy choke 47 solen...
and a 22 solen decoupling on the driver chassis. the B+ is on a variac so
i can dial in operating points, and swap tubes.
the 1626 has a similar PS topology minus the variac, and hexfreds currently
reside in the 83 socket... it is running 22 ma at -15V and say 160V... it
is sounding much better than it did yesterday :-)
the swap in drver is a 7119 with 4 d-cell nicads in the cathode, but will
in time be swapped for a more traditional R/C combo for compairison.
when the 7119 is in there, the whole system has too much gain, the 1626
with a mu of 5 brings everything nicely in line... I am also looking for
other options to the utc it, since bandwidth on it isn't great... looking
at the tango NP-8, but the 437A sure sounds better with 35ma going through
it!...
the output tube is a globe 50 at the moment, but can be just about
anything... the filament supply is a pair of 6.3V windings on a variac so
any V can be dialed in, and each tube has its own 83, 6mfd, oil permalloy
choke, 47 solen on its individual variac.
the outputs are either Tango NY-15-3.5's or tamura amorphous cores... for
the longest time i was loving the tamura's, but... damn tose tango's are
great too!
later
dave
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: Re: 1626 driver... etc.
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 03:14:12 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n210
>Hi Dave;
> I'm building an amp, thinking of using the NY15 or X3.5S. I was
>told that permaalooy is lack of bass but gorious high. How would you
>catergories the sound? Thanks..BTW: Where do you get the Tango? Do you
>have anything for sale?
viwat,... it is viwat isn't it??
apologies for all kinds of random thoughts in advance...
well i listen to lowthers, so bass is up in the air here, but to me the
ny-15's... brought back a lot of the bass i have been missing.
i had a few people over the other day and at least one mentioned the lack
of bass... so the next two days i obsessed about it... others praised
hexfreds... listened to them and didn't like them... gave 'em another
shot.. still hated them.. this was all with tamura 5002's... i decided on a
whim to put the 1626 driver back in thursday night for a fresh start
friday... powered up this morn... and well nothing special... maybe i
needed a break, or i was thinking about it too much.. but the sound was
very bright and agitating... swapping the hexfreds out for an 83 would
help, but the comments about the hexfreds revealing other problems that the
83 masked... got me thinking...maybe i was being short sighted... and
listening for one thing... something planted in my mind... the lack of
bass... i obsessed about it for a day (long for me) and on a whim tried the
ny-15's ... wow what bass (lowthers here) but it was fun again... the
tamura's had an aggressive quality that made (and will make) me say wow...
but after a while i stareted hearing their faults??? and well the sound of
the ny-15's were a welcome change... they had much better bass and a
completely different presentation... with my current setup they seem much
more balanced.. but like us all my opinions change as my mood does... hence
my breadboard setup.
to me the option to swap is better... i love it whan someone says this is
missing, and i can swap something and hear their opinion... its a learning
experience... at any level... it always seems like a work in progress...
as for your concerns about the lack of bass... who do you trust??? anyone
you talk to will have an opinion... if you want bass get some 030's i had a
pair, and didn't like them in my system... the bass was amazing... they
rocked... but for me they were not right. I loved the tamura's and had it
in my mind that they were the coolest thing since sliced bread... and here
i am a bit later eating crow and liking the ny-15's again... its all
propaganda... i am starting to strongly believe in the idea that you should
star from the room and work backwards... the most expensive swap is the
room... (OK ears) from there go backwards... next is the speakers... and
more importantly how they interact with the room you are stuck with... this
is where the compromises are made...can anything further upstream
compensate???... well yes it can compensate or should i say compromise???
next in line is a output trannie, output tube, driver linestage, source...
i have presented the backwards approach to audio... and as economics go
(for the diy'er)... i am starting to feel choose the things that cost you
big $$$ and accept them.. learn them and then work to make them shine! as
engineering goes ther is an explanation to everything that happens to
audio, but to predict what is good from a technical standpoint is... to
me... a loss... the whole idea of functionality is great, but again this is
an art... or moreso a craft... to us specs mean nothing... we are alone on
our audio island with nothing but coconuts to spend there is always a guy
down the beach with more... or bigger nuts... i have accepted the idea that
we want to listen and try to figure out why we like something...rather than
trying it the other way around...but of course there is that damn 1626 amp
that has me perplexed... it was an enlightning experience it had much more
hum than my ac heated shi-shi 50's yet there was still something magic
there... go figure.
as for your other questions... the tango came from steve berger at
aprilsound... and i have nothing for sale.
later
dave
=========================================================================
From: SSell71096@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: 1626 driver... etc.
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:14:10 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n210
dave slagle wrote:
>i am starting to strongly believe in the idea that you should
>star from the room and work backwards... the most expensive >swap is the
room... (OK ears) from there go backwards... next >is the speakers... and
more importantly how they interact >with the room you are stuck with... this
is where the >compromises are made...can anything further upstream
>compensate???...
Dave, I wholehearteldy agree with this position. Irrespective of whether one
is a DIYer or buys off of S'pile's recommended components list, it seems to
me that this is the most rational and reasonable approach to getting good
sound where we listen. It's also the least likely way to end up on the
audiophile merry-go-round of always replacing parts of the system because
you're dissatisfied.