Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 1
=========================================================================
From: Carter Hendricks <carterh@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Gallo sighting- was Kenny G - Was Musical taste
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:26:55 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n323
At 11:46 PM 6/26/98 EDT, Plaato@aol.com wrote:
> there, perched on a rack that
>I walked by on the way out, was a magazine called "Bleach". This looked like
>some nouveau film paparrazzi sort of thing, but what caught my attention was
>the name of the guy on the cover. Some hustler named Vincent Gallo.
Yeah. Today's NYT [page B-16] reprints its earlier review of
Buffalo '66 'cause that film opened today in New York.
The film's opening sequence has Vinnie's character, Billy
Brown, being released from prison but then asking to come
back in 'cause he's gotta go to the bathroom. Interesting
movie. Doesn't say anything about mono, though.
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: Plaato@aol.com
Subject: Gallo sighting- was Kenny G - Was Musical taste
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:46:35 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n323
Joes-
In a message dated 6/26/98 9:32:57 PM, rbales@gte.net wrote:
<<It takes work, and perseverence and it leaves you seeming strange to blind
dates, but I aspire to not know who those people are on the covers of the
tabloids and People and Us that I see in the supermarket. Oh, I can
recognize actors, from movies I like, >>
Speakin of the tabloids, funny you should mention this, Ron. I usually ignore
the tabloids and am blissfully myopic in ignoring all the non- musical and
motorcycle print media at the stores, but today was different. In an attempt
to dodge the North Jersey heat while visiting my mother in law, The family and
I drove down to the local Barnes and Noble, and there, perched on a rack that
I walked by on the way out, was a magazine called "Bleach". This looked like
some nouveau film paparrazzi sort of thing, but what caught my attention was
the name of the guy on the cover. Some hustler named Vincent Gallo. There was
an interview with this Gallo, and though he never mentioned audio, or brown,
or mono, for that matter, it seems to be the same guy as you know who, from SP
way back. Pretty impressive dude. You know, the Buffalo stuff was all there...
it had to be him.
Henry Platt
=========================================================================
From: Daniel Normolle <monk@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Gallo sighting- was Kenny G - Was Musical taste
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:06:11 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n327
Plaato@aol.com wrote:
> I walked by on the way out, was a magazine called "Bleach". This looked like
> some nouveau film paparrazzi sort of thing, but what caught my attention was
> the name of the guy on the cover. Some hustler named Vincent Gallo. There was
> an interview with this Gallo, and though he never mentioned audio, or brown,
> or mono, for that matter, it seems to be the same guy as you know who, from SP
> way back. Pretty impressive dude. You know, the Buffalo stuff was all there...
> it had to be him.
>
> Henry Platt
Vinnie's film--yes, he starred in it and directed it--got an excellent
review from Janet Maslin in Friday's New York Times. Pretty impressive
cast, too, including Anjelica Houston. The review claimed Vinnie has been
in films by Kurosawa; it didn't say which one.
dpn
=========================================================================
From: garage99@hotmail.com
Subject: Garage Sale, Flea Market
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:03:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n132
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=========================================================================
From: Terrence Dorsey <terrend@microsoft.com>
Subject: Garrard 301/401
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:10:46 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n494
Anyone have experience with these Garrard turntables? Got any tips for
optimum setup? Your advice is appreciated.
Terry
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:04:41 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n494
** Reply to note from Terrence Dorsey <terrend@microsoft.com> Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:10:46 -0800
>
> Anyone have experience with these Garrard turntables? Got any tips for
> optimum setup? Your advice is appreciated.
>
> Terry
>
Use a heavy plinth. Most people I've talked to prefer making them out of
1/2 inch or thicker plywood and glueing layers together to get the right
height. Some people put layers of lead between each plywood sheet.
Keep the bearing nice and oiled/greased as the case may be.
Use a nice long 12" arm if you can find one.
Enjoy the music.
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: Richard Lindner <rjl@riclin.com.au>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:09:35 +1100 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n494
On 17 Nov, pitaro@ozemail.com.au wrote:
> ** Reply to note from Terrence Dorsey <terrend@microsoft.com> Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:10:46 -0800
>>
>> Anyone have experience with these Garrard turntables? Got any tips for
>> optimum setup? Your advice is appreciated.
>>
>> Terry
>>
>
> Use a heavy plinth. Most people I've talked to prefer making them out of
> 1/2 inch or thicker plywood and glueing layers together to get the right
> height. Some people put layers of lead between each plywood sheet.
harry's proposal sounds good, but i've been more inclined to use
laminated mdf rather than plywood - it's somewhat denser and results in
a heavier plinth.
the comments regarding lead sheets apply to both tho'...
my $0.02c ;)
- --
Richard Lindner Intrepid Adventurer rjl@riclin.com.au
Ph:+61 (0)413 804 075 rjl@gondwana.apana.org.au
What a long, strange trip it's been
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:04:31 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n494
- ----------
> From: Richard Lindner <rjl@riclin.com.au>
> To: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
> Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:09 PM
>
> > Use a heavy plinth. Most people I've talked to prefer making them out
of
> > 1/2 inch or thicker plywood and glueing layers together to get the
right
> > height. Some people put layers of lead between each plywood sheet.
>
> harry's proposal sounds good, but i've been more inclined to use
> laminated mdf rather than plywood - it's somewhat denser and results in
> a heavier plinth.
>
> the comments regarding lead sheets apply to both tho'...
>
> my $0.02c ;)
>
> --
> Richard Lindner Intrepid Adventurer rjl@riclin.com.au
> Ph:+61 (0)413 804 075 rjl@gondwana.apana.org.au
> What a long, strange trip it's been
Hi guys,
Thought I might like to share some personal experience here. I have found
that making the plinth that's a little too dense (MDF, Marble etc) thence
to make the sound drier and thinner. You may want to play around with a
combination of other material like stacked/laminated 1 inch Plywood with
Corian, which in this case, works well as a mounting platform for the
tonearm. I've also found that, to a large extent, material used as the
plinth for the Gerard TTs accounts for a hugh difference in the final
result.
Just my 2 cents worth
Johari
=========================================================================
From: Steve Berger <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:47:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n495
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Thought I might like to share some personal experience here. I have found
> that making the plinth that's a little too dense (MDF, Marble etc) thence
> to make the sound drier and thinner. You may want to play around with a
> combination of other material like stacked/laminated 1 inch Plywood with
> Corian, which in this case, works well as a mounting platform for the
> tonearm. I've also found that, to a large extent, material used as the
> plinth for the Gerard TTs accounts for a hugh difference in the final
> result.
>
> Just my 2 cents worth
>
> Johari
I MUST agree with johari!:
I have built quite a few of these , and find that a medium density ply
wood like luan is just about perfect. MDF stinks! It sucks the life out
of the table.
Thats My two cents.
Its a GREAT! table, have fun,
Steve
- --
Steve Berger <http://home.earthlink.net/~aprilsound/>
=========================================================================
From: Richard Lindner <rjl@riclin.com.au>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:56:35 +1100 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n495
On 18 Nov, Steve Berger wrote:
>> Thought I might like to share some personal experience here. I have found
>> that making the plinth that's a little too dense (MDF, Marble etc) thence
>> to make the sound drier and thinner. You may want to play around with a
>> combination of other material like stacked/laminated 1 inch Plywood with
>> Corian, which in this case, works well as a mounting platform for the
>> tonearm. I've also found that, to a large extent, material used as the
>> plinth for the Gerard TTs accounts for a hugh difference in the final
>> result.
<SNIP>
> I MUST agree with johari!:
> I have built quite a few of these , and find that a medium density ply
> wood like luan is just about perfect. MDF stinks! It sucks the life out
> of the table.
hmm - might this be because resonances in the plywood plinth result in
colouration - albeit /attactive/ colouration??
then again - perhaps the higher internal damping of plywood comparedto
mdf assists things in this regard??
my past experience with plywood hasn't been as favourable as these
experiences indicate - but i'm happy to try again. in fact, i'm in the
process of building a new plinth right now and had started with mdf -
but i'm beginning to think that i may put the work to date aside and
recommence using 3 layers of 12mm ply instead.
(btw - this is for an sp10 - /not/ a garrard)
> Its a GREAT! table, have fun,
yep! ;)
- --
Richard Lindner Intrepid Adventurer rjl@riclin.com.au
Ph:+61 (0)413 804 075 rjl@gondwana.apana.org.au
What a long, strange trip it's been
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:03:33 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n495
- ----------
> From: Richard Lindner <rjl@riclin.com.au>
> To: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 4:56 PM
>
> hmm - might this be because resonances in the plywood plinth result in
> colouration - albeit /attactive/ colouration??
> then again - perhaps the higher internal damping of plywood comparedto
> mdf assists things in this regard??
All material resonants but what's important is to balance they with other
aspects of the TT.
> my past experience with plywood hasn't been as favourable as these
> experiences indicate - but i'm happy to try again. in fact, i'm in the
> process of building a new plinth right now and had started with mdf -
> but i'm beginning to think that i may put the work to date aside and
> recommence using 3 layers of 12mm ply instead.
> (btw - this is for an sp10 - /not/ a garrard)
Just a suggestion here, Richard. Since you have started work on the mdf,
why waste they. Continue with the plinth for your Technics SP10 but use a
thin piece of Acrylic between the mdf(plinth) and the motor. What tonearm
are you using with the SP10?
> > Its a GREAT! table, have fun,
Definitely, for a Direct-Drive.
Cheers,
Johari
=========================================================================
From: Benjamin A Lyons <bal03@gnofn.org>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401 (and now Thorens TD 124)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:29:25 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n496
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401
>> Thought I might like to share some personal experience here. I have
>found
>> that making the plinth that's a little too dense (MDF, Marble etc)
>thence
>> to make the sound drier and thinner. You may want to play around with a
>> combination of other material like stacked/laminated 1 inch Plywood>
>with
>> Corian, which in this case, works well as a mounting platform for the
>> tonearm. I've also found that, to a large extent, material used as the
>> plinth for the Gerard TTs accounts for a hugh difference in the final
>> result.
>
>> Just my 2 cents worth
>
>> Johari
>I MUST agree with johari!:
> I have built quite a few of these , and find that a medium density plyI
>MUST agree with johari!:
> I have built quite a few of these , and find that a medium density ply
>wood like luan is just about perfect. MDF stinks! It sucks the life out
>of the table.
> Thats My two cents.
> Its a GREAT! table, have fun,
Steve
Do the the exact same particulars of plinth construction hold for the
Thorens TD 124? I know that several companies in England manufactures
plinths for both the Garrards and the Thorens, using everything from slate
to mdf to Corian. Most are quite expensive even before shipping to the
States. Whatmight be the best solution for someone with limited to none
wood working skills and tools?
Thanks, Benjamin
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401 (and now Thorens TD 124)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:36:12 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n496
- ----------
> From: Benjamin A Lyons <bal03@gnofn.org>
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Cc: sound-digest@lists.io.com
> Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401 (and now Thorens TD 124)
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 3:29 PM
>
>
> Do the the exact same particulars of plinth construction hold for the
> Thorens TD 124? I know that several companies in England manufactures
> plinths for both the Garrards and the Thorens, using everything from
slate
> to mdf to Corian. Most are quite expensive even before shipping to the
> States. Whatmight be the best solution for someone with limited to none
> wood working skills and tools?
>
> Thanks, Benjamin
The same holds true for the TD 124. Expensive and Heavy making shipping
costly.
You can try laminating 4 pcs of medium plywood together and then cut only
the space that needs to be removed to accomodate the underside of the TT.
That will retain most of the plywood and maximize the mass of the plinth.
Johari
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401, not again ?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:40:28 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n497
At 10:43 AM 11/20/98 +0100, Hartmut wrote:
>Terrence Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> Anyone have experience with these Garrard turntables? Got any tips for
>> optimum setup? Your advice is appreciated.
>
>Terrence,
>
>I had Garrards from 1990 to 1997, before upgrading to Scheu/Amazon and
>Platine Verdier.
>
>The Garrard transports a lot of energy of the music to the listener
>and outperforms Linn LP12, the Thorens TD124, the EMT 930ST and of
>course
>the Rega and other lesser designs musically by a great margin. It goes
____________________________________________________________________________
________________________________-----
Seems like about 6 weeks ago this subject was discussed -- td124 vs the 301
( I started the thread ) it shook out that about 50% prefered the garrard
and the other side prefered the 124 ,,,, subjective is the key word.
I own both the 301 and the 124 ( my 2 cents ,the 124 has better highs and a
more open presentation , the 301 a little srtonger in the bass dept) BUT
they both sound like and old car radio compared to my TNT/string/graham.
Both of these old clunkers are great tables for the money , one of the best
deals in audio , but lets not go so far as to say they smoke verdiers and a
lot of other bigger buck tables . remember just and old bikers 2 cents (>:
best Bill Gardner
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut <Hartmut.Quaschik@mch.sni.de>
Subject: Re: Garrard 301/401, plinths, and so on
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:43:31 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n497
Terrence Dorsey wrote:
>
> Anyone have experience with these Garrard turntables? Got any tips for
> optimum setup? Your advice is appreciated.
Terrence,
I had Garrards from 1990 to 1997, before upgrading to Scheu/Amazon and
Platine Verdier.
The Garrard transports a lot of energy of the music to the listener
and outperforms Linn LP12, the Thorens TD124, the EMT 930ST and of
course
the Rega and other lesser designs musically by a great margin. It goes
deeper than that above other tts. Its timbre is slightly euphonic (just
a touch) and resolution is a bit compromised (as well as absolute
timing)
by the asynchronous AC motor.
To get rid of the vibrations of the motor you must use a heavy plinth,
as
others already suggested. I used to use massive beech.
It works good with Linn EkosI plus Lyra Clavis and also with SME3012
plus
Denon103, but doesn't like arms like Rega or FR64FX or SME309, which
will
sound boring on the Garrard. A friend of mine even has an ET2.0 on his
401.
Bearing: Use grease (like for bearings) or molybdenum paste (like for
cars) for all Garrards having bronze guides in the platter bearing, this
includes all 401 decks. Use synthetic chain oil (like for bycicles) for
301 decks with aluminium guides in the platter bearing.
Motor bearing: Use grease (like for bearings) or molybdenum paste
(like for cars). When opening the motor be careful with the transmission
of the speed regulator, you may damage the three fine springs. Hang them
out, please.
service manuals and life size plinth plans: I already provided some
folks
with these. I can offer them for 10,-DM for the xerox plus shipping from
Germany, which may result in app. 22,-DM overseas (app. 15 USD).
regards,
Hartmut from Munich
please mailto:Hartmut Quaschik in Frankfurt <Hartmut.Quaschik@bku.db.de>
_from now, as I am working 4 days the week in Frankfurt next months.
=========================================================================
From: "Ian McPhail" <i.mcphail@rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin plinth
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:09:40 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n189
Any UK'ers know the current address for Martin Bastin? His latest
plinth for the Garrard 301/401 using 9" or 12" arm is featured
in HiFi World Jan 98. Back in 94 he was selling plans for his earlier
plinth design. Has anyone had experience with this design?
Regards Ian
Ian McPhail i.mcphail@rmit.edu.au
RMIT Chem and Met Eng Dept 110
GPO Box 2476V
Melbourne 3001
Australia
tel +61 3 9660 2408
fax +61 3 9660 3746
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: garrard 301 Q
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:51:07 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n240
hey all, was thinking a bit about several things, and johannes' turntable
got me thinking... sorry if this is a bit basic...
in order to reduce my vta... i had to shim my platter up a but and this was
done with a felt mat and a styx record... it got me thinking that the whole
idea of a high mass platter is lost if the record is not well coupled to
the platter...
so a little spray mount attached the platter, mat, sytx, and pad to one
rigid piece, but i still note that the record still isnt very well coupled
to the mess underneath it....
two options that come to mind
a weight,
a better mat,
any suggestions for a better mat, and finally i hear the garrard is a
"rugged" unit, any thoughts on the max weight that can be put on it???
any other thoughts on the subject greatly appreciated
tia
happy april fools day to all!
dave
=========================================================================
From: Yip Hin Fai Johari <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: garrard 301 Q
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:26:24 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n242
At 10:51 AM 4/1/98 -0500, dave slagle wrote:
>hey all, was thinking a bit about several things, and johannes' turntable
>got me thinking... sorry if this is a bit basic...
>
>in order to reduce my vta... i had to shim my platter up a but and this was
>done with a felt mat and a styx record... it got me thinking that the whole
>idea of a high mass platter is lost if the record is not well coupled to
>the platter...
>
>so a little spray mount attached the platter, mat, sytx, and pad to one
>rigid piece, but i still note that the record still isnt very well coupled
>to the mess underneath it....
>
>two options that come to mind
>
>a weight,
>
>a better mat,
>
>any suggestions for a better mat, and finally i hear the garrard is a
>"rugged" unit, any thoughts on the max weight that can be put on it???
>
>any other thoughts on the subject greatly appreciated
>
>tia
>
>happy april fools day to all!
>
>dave
Dave
You may want to try placing a piece of thin glass on the metal platter itself
cutted to the size of your platter.
Really bring back and tighten up the bass.
Johari
=========================================================================
From: "Ian McPhail" <i.mcphail@rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Garrard 501
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:03:43 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n057
Of interest to Garrardophiles: an article in a recent UK audio mag
mentions that Loricraft Audio UK has recently obtained the rights
from the Brazilian company Gradiente to use the name Garrard.
Loricraft Audio specialize in repairing and upgrading Garrard 301's
and 401's. Based on the best features of previous models and new
improvements Loricraft will be releasing the Garrard 501 in the near
future.
Regards, Ian McPhail
Ian McPhail i.mcphail@rmit.edu.au
RMIT Chem and Met Eng Dept 110
GPO Box 2476V
Melbourne 3001
Australia
tel +61 3 9660 2408
fax +61 3 9660 3746
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Garrard 501
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:29:46 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n426
Another issue has arrived of that increasingly expensive and dilute
magazine technically HFN&RR. Our sometimes pal, Kenny K., has a review of
the brand new Garrard 501 turntable, remarkably ugly (ah, it must be
British!) in the picture, with a wood plinth worthy of any highway
furniture store.
Mr. K. is a kind of field tit, who hops about animatedly chirping bright
observations, hoping to conceal that his knowledge of physics,
electronics, mechanics, etc., is on the exiguous side of hefty. (And
speaking of the "g" hardened by a "u," we must teach him to spell "de
rigueur.") I can forgive him his technical deficiencies, but not his
proud philistinism. He seems to regard the sound of garbage trucks
smashing cans, also known as rock music, as a mark of human achievement.
Likewise, he is a professed enemy of classical music, which he apparently
feels lacks the beauty, grace, and subtlety of rock.
Be that as it may, there is a bit of a commotion when Kenny K. gets round
to informing us the price of this idler-driven, unsprung, armless update
of the 401. The tit distracts us with a worm, but the price is a -- get
this, folks -- a cool 5250 pounds sterling, or about twice the price of a
contract on your mother-in-law.
Apparently the fiscal foolishness of Japanese collectors knows no bounds.
That, obviously, is the target market for the revamp. Sure doesn't have
much to do with playing records.
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: "Jon Lane" <jhlane@email.msn.com>
Subject: RE: Garrard 501
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:10:07 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n426
>
> Another issue has arrived of that increasingly
> expensive and dilute
> magazine technically HFN&RR. Our sometimes pal,
> Kenny K., has a review of
> the brand new Garrard 501 turntable, remarkably
> ugly (ah, it must be
> British!) in the picture, with a wood plinth
> worthy of any highway
> furniture store.
<snip>
> Be that as it may, there is a bit of a commotion
> when Kenny K. gets round
> to informing us the price of this idler-driven,
> unsprung, armless update
> of the 401. The tit distracts us with a worm,
> but the price is a -- get
> this, folks -- a cool 5250 pounds sterling, or
> about twice the price of a
> contract on your mother-in-law.
>
> Apparently the fiscal foolishness of Japanese
> collectors knows no bounds.
> That, obviously, is the target market for the
> revamp. Sure doesn't have
> much to do with playing records.
>
> Doug Purl
Be THAT as it may, Doug, the stereotyping of er, 'Japanese
collectors' as fiscally foolish - and in that something of a
mild sideswipe at the rest of us who are also comfortable
with extreme measures used in the pursuit of our own
individual musical 'truths' - is no more complete to those
on 'that' side of the fence than would be the familiar image
of 'scientist engineer' audiotype as a mirthless, tin-eared,
number cruncher without apparent musical inclinations to
those on 'this' side. Kilobucks on a Garrard floats their
boat, just not yours and mine perhaps...
But like our Asian friends (who shine the light of extreme
audio as brightly as any) I have been known to perch for
hours scant feet from the thundering A7, with square yards
of breadboard littering the carpet. Tons of fun, real
music. The point: many of us can be most comfortable with
huge expenditures on other 'fringe' technologies like new
300b's, thousand dollar transformer sets, multi-$K moving
coils. I'm happy I don't need to spend $10K on a Garrard,
admitted. But that's only 'cause I've got a machine shop at
my disposal with which to fashion a 100lb 'table from
aluminum and stone. No free lunch there either.
Fortunately, you are known as a reasonably reasonable and
intricate chap presumably in pursuit of your own audio
nirvana. It's good to know that you aren't overly critical
of alternate paths.
Jon Lane
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@orion.it.luc.edu>
Subject: RE: Garrard 501
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:32:53 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n426
Jon Lane wrote:
>Fortunately, you are known as a reasonably reasonable and
>intricate chap presumably in pursuit of your own audio
>nirvana. It's good to know that you aren't overly critical
>of alternate paths.
that stuff up there in response to Doug Purl's note about the new Garrard 501.
Gosh, the way I figure it, Doug said some nice things. He used a lot of
pretty words and lead our minds on a path to understanding. I mean, he
could have said the Garrard 501 is on a crappy lightweight piece of wood
and they want 5000 pounds for it - what a load of crap. The real problem
with that is that crap twice in a row doesn't make for very well balanced
prose. Oh yeah, and you would think that some vernacular (mailer) daemon
had possessed him. *wink*
Doug, though I rarely respond to you in this context, this time I have to
say that I thought your letter was very appropriate - point eloquently made.
Anyway, even though everyone is abandoning their 'modern' tables for snazzy
hip vintage tables, I want to send a vote in for my stock Linn LP12. No
fancy power supply, no frills. (Ittok arm, ML150 cartridge - which it what
came with it when I bought it used) It plays a lot of records, and it's
much more on the right speed than the other vintage tables I've had.
Thought it's really the nicest thing I've had in the phono arena it has a
much more recommendable characteristic - it's SUFFICIENT! When people
suggest things in audio they say, "It's the best darn thing I've ever
heard!" and we all know that they mean it to the bottom of their heart, but
the feeling will fade. However, I'll recommend my LP12. It's adequate. I
can imagine better, but I don't yearn for more at all. What more can a
music lover ask?
Yours truly,
Young Tom.
- ----------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana
773.528.0882 Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America - Chicago Representative
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: RE: Garrard 501
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:08:43 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n426
On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Jon Lane wrote:
> Be THAT as it may, Doug, the stereotyping of er, 'Japanese
> collectors' as fiscally foolish - and in that something of a
> mild sideswipe at the rest of us who are also comfortable
> with extreme measures used in the pursuit of our own
> individual musical 'truths' - is no more complete to those
> on 'that' side of the fence than would be the familiar image
> of 'scientist engineer' audiotype as a mirthless, tin-eared,
> number cruncher without apparent musical inclinations to
> those on 'this' side. Kilobucks on a Garrard floats their
> boat, just not yours and mine perhaps...
I plead guilty to whatever defect of character or metabolism I am being
gently reproved for here, in the interest of nitting some gritty. In part
I was motivated to notify KK that by the Grace of George I there will be
hell to pay if he once again disparages classical music, a puny weakling
unable to defend itself. It is like poking a stick in the lion's lair.
Unfortunately KK is too regal to respond in kind. He simply swankles a
fulsome mane and twitches a hock in contempt.
The issues, please. Writers like Kessler are in a bit of a sticky wicket
because their responsibility is confused, conflicted, complex, or impure
in some admixture. They have to retain the allegiance of reader, editor,
manufacturer, and advertiser. They must generate excitement about
products and enthusiasm for purchasing. They must not seem to venerate a
single house upon a hill, but rather to prepare a village with homes
befitting many tastes and needs. From time to time they smuggle in a
hierarchy when they mention what they own and listen to, raising high
ground in Audioville.
The question is where does one find absolutely impartial, disinterested,
dispassionate, neutral, objective reviews not just of equipment but of
generic engineering approaches to problems. Many of those who have vetted
the problems of, say, turntables, and could evaluate rival technologies
competently need to sell their knowledge to manufacturers, not give it
away, virtually, to audio purchasers.
In part a forum like this serves to bring together competent and
knowledgeable users that they might share ideas and experience. As I see
it, we might profitably discuss criteria for evaluating turntables, along
the way producing a yardstick.
Minimalism. Paul Weathers worthy giant he, shoed how little need be done
if it's done right. The Weathers turntable had to be the lightest ever.
A light metal plinth atop a wood base with light springs underneath. A
stamped metal platte driven on its downturned edge by a synchronous clock
motor through a dime-sized gum-rubber wheel thumb-pressed on a slender
motor spindle. Bearing was a rounded shaft riding in a cupped sleeve.
Cheap, cheap, cheap to make, elegantly simple, simply elegant.
Unfortunately, I sold mine, with its terrific FM mono pickup and
oscillator, after stereo arrived. Does anyone know how the Weathers
performed with a stereo cartridge?
Then there is the Stromberg-Carlson of 1958, a design copied by AR and
Linn, to name two. Suspended sub-chassis, double platter, the inner
belt-driven. Nicely isolated subplatter and arm, attenuating all kinds of
vibrations arriving at the plinth. (I still say folks ought to get their
turntables out of the listening room, and either into a closet or adjacent
room, or into a solid cabinet, all of which I have done at various times).
And there are the various examples of Egyptian Pyramid engineering.
Massive mothers, capable of twirling two couples and picnic dinner. They
seem to me to appeal to some brute instinct rather than elegantly address
engineering problems. It's true that their sheer mass enhances
indifference to air-borne vibrations, but it also increases quality
requirements of the bearings by the square of the mass. So, too, do motor
requirements climb. True, isolation requirements of the system decline,
but they also become impractical.
I am left wondering if this, or any other Garrard, satisfactorily
addressed turntable criteria. With there simple idler drive, were they
rumble free?
> It's good to know that you aren't overly critical of alternate paths.
Oh, I am critical of all paths. A pox on all of them. None compares with
our magnifent youth, when we were beautiful, puissant, heroic, amorous,
celebrated, and above all other virtues, smug as can be in our ignorance.
I'd give all I know to return to that blessed condition. None can surpass
the splendor in the grass.
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Garrard Lab Series AT60
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:01:29 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
Does anybody know good and bad about the above turntable?
What are they worth?
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Garrard Lab Series AT60
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:22:21 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Steve Van Osdell wrote:
> Does anybody know good and bad about the above turntable?
Middle of the line, circa 1962. First, non-pusher-platform Garrard
changer. Just an OK player.
> What are they worth?
??
Kal
=========================================================================
From: "Owen Young" <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Garrott Bros (was: van den Hul)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:42:03 -1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n100
Thanks Harry & Peter for current Garrott info
Harry, you wrote:
> My understanding is that the Garrott brothers (and their wives I think?)
> committed suicide and were found in a double bed with their throats cut.
Slight correction....(excuse the grisly details)John & Brian Garrott and
their wives were found in a bedroom of their remote farmhouse dead of
carbon monoxide poisoning from a car exhaust piped through the outside
wall. Apparently a carefully planned quadruple suicide. The year was 1991 I
think.
> A theory I heard was that they were concerned about the demise of their
> business through the introduction of the CD.
A romantic theory only I suspect.... John was known to be dying, it was
believed from a terminal heart condition or Cancer, which led to the
closure of their business in the later stages.
I met the Garrotts in 1987 when I had a Supex SM100E MM cartridge
"Garrotted" with Microscanner tip.
Owen
oyoung@clear.net.nz
=========================================================================
From: garyj@mars.superlink.net (Gary Johnston)
Subject: Gary Dahl/are you there?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:34:46 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n089
Gary,
haven't heard from you recently, and just wondered if i could ask you some
questions regarding the IT connection in your Reichert Amp.
let me know where you are.
gary
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Gawd... I get some GREAT mail
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:08:26 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n573
Yo Joes:
Dig THIS:
The following goes to show you can answer just about any question if
you are creative enough.
The following is one of Dr. Schalmbaugh's Final Test questions for
May 1997. (Dr. Schalmbaugh, University of Oklahoma School of Chemical
Engineering, is known for asking questions such as this on his final exams.)
================
May 1997, Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II Final Exam Question:
"Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with truth."
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some
variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
First, we postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some
mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what
rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think
that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.
Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, lets
look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these
religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go
to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not
belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all
souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the
number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law
states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the
same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant.
Case 1: If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which
souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase
until all hell breaks loose.
Case 2: If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of
souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell
freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by
Theresa Banyan during my freshman year, "it will be a cold night in hell
before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still have
NOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then case 2 cannot be
true.
Thus, hell is exothermic.
The student, Tim Graham, got the only A.
==============================
Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
2528 19 St. S.W., Calgary, Ab.,
Canada T2T 4X3
Ph. 1 403 244 4434 Fx. 1 403 244 9026
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: Gawd... I get some GREAT mail
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:04:17 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n578
I wondered too.... but is nevertheless both very funny and rather
entertaining
Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
2528 19 St. S.W., Calgary, Ab.,
Canada T2T 4X3
Ph. 1 403 244 4434 Fx. 1 403 244 9026
- ----------
>From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
>To: <sound@deliverator.io.com>
>Subject: Fw: Gawd... I get some GREAT mail
>Date: Fri, Jan 15, 1999, 12:45 PM
>
>FWIW, I reposted this to another list and got the following
>response.
>
>GM
>=====================
>I am also a skeptic,dues paying at times even.
>Please, let's not turn our email list,
>or for that matter, the Net, into a fora for spreading urban
>legends.
>>I am well versed in the area and many of the red flags flew with the
>>posting. I did a tiny bit of dejanews research and below is what I
>>found. Folks, it is up to all of us to not spread (unless it's
>spread with a caution that it is an urban legend) stories like this. With
>>many, many American citizens already believing in nonsense like
>>astrology or ouiga boards, there just is little room for
>unexplained jokes. Just my opinion, ****.
=========================================================================
From: "gary longrie" <longrie@my-dejanews.com>
Subject: re: Gawd... I get some GREAT mail
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:00:13 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n578
>Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:08:26 -0700
>From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
>Subject: Gawd... I get some GREAT mail
>
> Yo Joes:
> Dig THIS:
>
>The following goes to show you can answer just about any question if
>you are creative enough.
>
> The following is one of Dr. Schalmbaugh's Final Test questions for
>May 1997. (Dr. Schalmbaugh, University of Oklahoma School of Chemical
>Engineering, is known for asking questions such as this on his final exams.)
>================
>
> May 1997, Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II Final Exam Question:
>
>"Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with truth."
>Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some
>variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
>
> First, we postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some
>mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what
>rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think
>that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.
>
> Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, lets
>look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these
>religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go
>to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not
>belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all
>souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the
>number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.
>
> Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law
>states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the
>same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant.
>
> Case 1: If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which
>souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase
>until all hell breaks loose.
>
> Case 2: If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of
>souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell
>freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by
>Theresa Banyan during my freshman year, "it will be a cold night in hell
>before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still have
>NOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then case 2 cannot be
>true.
>
> Thus, hell is exothermic.
>
>The student, Tim Graham, got the only A.
>==============================
>
>
> Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
> 2528 19 St. S.W., Calgary, Ab.,
> Canada T2T 4X3
> Ph. 1 403 244 4434 Fx. 1 403 244 9026
Bloody 'ell!
- -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
=========================================================================
From: Milton Martins <milton@naplesnet.com>
Subject: RE: Gawd... I get some GREAT mail
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:41:58 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n579
>>many, many American citizens already believing in nonsense like
>>astrology or ouiga boards, there just is little room for
>unexplained jokes. Just my opinion, ****.
I always welcome humor and life is much easier when you take things lightly...
Just my humble opinion
Milton Martins
=========================================================================
From: Robert Ang <rang@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: G'day
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:31:05 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n014
G'day. Just some introductions - I'm a new member of the JoeList server.
I'm an audiophile do-it-yourselfer in WA interested in the best in sound
reproduction (aren't we all?) using directly-heated triodes and
single-ended circuits. Firstly, some of my techniques for great sound are:
No feedback
Directly-heated triodes for output; I'm trialing DHTs as pre-amps and
dirver stages soon
Transformer-coupling or direct-coupling preferable
Valve rectification with choke-input filters
AC heater circuitry wherever possible
3mm copper chasses
Some of my projects:
Push-pull EL34 amp, modified Contan Audio power amp
Pre-amp based loosely on the AudioNote M7 tube pre-amp (line stage only),
using the 6072A in anode-follower direct-coupled to cathode-follower
Power amp, monoblock SE 845 using Tango transformers and interstage
coupling with triode-connected KT66 and 12AU7
300B integrated amp using similar driver circuit with capacitor-coupling
Some of my futuer projects:
417A-based pre-amp
26-based pre-amp
Transformer-coupled 300B power amp
Transformer-coupled 2A3 power amp
Rob.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Another friendly message from Robert Yuen Lee Ang! |
| "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose |
| for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods |
| your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the |
| Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me |
| and my household, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Geek of a different color
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:37:35 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n264
Not the usual Joenet ultra-fi fare, but a charming bit of homebrew
ingenuity nonetheless... :}
http://utter.chaos.org.uk/~altman/mp3mobile/
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Geek of a different color
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:39:41 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
>Not the usual Joenet ultra-fi fare, but a charming bit of homebrew
>ingenuity nonetheless... :}
>
>http://utter.chaos.org.uk/~altman/mp3mobile/
>
>-dave
Linux (Unix for PC's) to run a car stereo!!! Now that's impressive! This
guy could probably build a 650MB RAM buffer in his sleep! (Why a 650MB RAM
buffer? Dump the entire CD at 16X speed into RAM, shut off the transport,
and viola, very very low jitter.)
Lynn T. Olson
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
=========================================================================
From: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
Subject: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 14:15:40 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n565
At 12:39 AM 1/9/99 GMT, you wrote:
>> I trip on the power, the sheer, obscene amounts of power.
>
>Do you do this in public, or strictly for your own amusement? If the
>former, then I bet the sound techs just love you....
Well mostly for my own amusement. I have yet to gig with the BAGA. For my back's sake I may end up
leaving it at home and throwing the measely 1100W @ 4 ohm Crest back in the rack. I'm telling you
it's flabbergasting how much an "antiquated" tube watt can kick a "modern" SS watt's ass to Topeka a
nd back. I would estimate it at at least two to one.
As far as sound techs, 99 percent of them I've run across barely know how to wire an XLR connection.
They have no mic technique, and even less desire to learn. I walk in to a gig with an open mind,
and walk out shaking my head at incompetence. At least around here, that's the way it is.
So, we pretty much bring our own PA system, right in our instruments themselves. We have been kicke
d off of stages for being "too loud." I wear it on my sleeve!
Trust me, it can get loud, but there's this wonderful drop in SPL with the square of distance from t
he source. If it's too loud for you, take a step back. It's amazing how well that works! Loud doe
sn't HAVE to equal "annoying." In fact that's my whole mantra--eliminate the annoying frequencies a
nd accentuate the pleasing ones.
IMHO, 90 percent of the key to great guitar tone is in the EQ-ing. I have an active three-band tube
-based EQ that was the best addition I ever made to the preamp. In contrast to those nasty graphics
, there is NO setting of the three knobs that makes for a bad sound, and I've got a good 30 dB range
.
It's got some real inductors in it too--probably a key to it's musicality and power.
I would certainly say this kind of rig is not for everyone... but for me, at least, it's a step towa
rd divinity. To have a crazy machine produce such wonderful vibrations just sucks me right in. Whe
n the rest of the band is pumping, and I stomp on the "gain boost" footswitch and take off on a solo
it's the closest thing to flying I've felt yet.
It's hard to put into words the "quickening" it produces in me.
<center>Ken Gilbert
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Garage/5701
- ------------------------------------------------
Tube Guitar Amplifier Repair/Design Technician
The Guitarist's Choice Inc. http://www.tgcguitar.com</center>
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:57:08 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
In a message dated 99-01-09 14:20:08 EST, ride5000@ride.ri.net writes:
>
> It's hard to put into words the "quickening" it produces in me.
>
But it's probably not hard to put into words the massive ear damage it's
causing to members of the audience.
(I won't even ask about your hearing proficiency.)
Sadly,
Anna
and tell me please, how one can "step back" from one's given seat in a
theater?
=========================================================================
From: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:31:58 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
At 10:57 AM 1/10/99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 99-01-09 14:20:08 EST, ride5000@ride.ri.net writes:
>
>>
>> It's hard to put into words the "quickening" it produces in me.
>>
>
>But it's probably not hard to put into words the massive ear damage it's
>causing to members of the audience.
Oh, PUHLEEEEZE!
Don't push your so-called morality on me. I live in America, where it's not against the law to push
some dB's. And if you don't like it, you move away. That's the great thing about sound. It dissa
pates.
>(I won't even ask about your hearing proficiency.)
Sorry... I didn't catch that. Musta been that damned phone that's always ringing somewhere.
>Sadly,
>Anna
Anna, do you lament all the people who regularly go to dance clubs, where combinations of pounding t
echno-beats and great alcohol consumption (among other things) lead to SPL's much worse that what re
gularly happens in my garage, on Tuesday and Saturday nights? The only sadness I have is for people
who want to pose politically correct all the damned time. Life isn't about living forever with per
fect hearing and a lifetime subscription to "Status Quo" magazine.
Yeah, I smoke cigarettes too. I also ride motorcycles, scuba dive, sail, ski, take hallucinogenic d
rugs, and jump out of airplanes.
>and tell me please, how one can "step back" from one's given seat in a
>theater?
If you have some vague notion that I have a 600W guitar amp so that people can SIT DOWN... well, it
just ain't that way! And let me tell you, we've played some gigs where 50 percent of the audience l
eaves after 10 seconds.
I don't want those people there anyway! The ones that stay have superlative things to say after the
gig. Let's just say we automatically weed out the folks that can't take the experience.
Like it, or don't like it, that's your perogative. Don't judge me 'cuz I play it loud. Either back
up, put some plugs in, or leave. To hold ME responsible for the general lack of common sense is lu
dicrous.
Jeez!
<center>Ken Gilbert
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Garage/5701
- ------------------------------------------------
Tube Guitar Amplifier Repair/Design Technician
The Guitarist's Choice Inc. http://www.tgcguitar.com
</center>
=========================================================================
From: Zyxtan@aol.com
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:33:11 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
In a message dated 1/10/99 11:34:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
ride5000@ride.ri.net writes:
> Yeah, I smoke cigarettes too. I also ride motorcycles, scuba dive, sail,
ski,
> take hallucinogenic drugs, and jump out of airplanes.
The hallucinogens are ok,but really ,smoking is truly an un-kharmic activity-
you might want to take up pot instead.:>)
paul(zyxtan@aol.com)
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:42:51 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
>From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
>To: sound@lists.io.com
>Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
>Date: Sun, Jan 10, 1999, 3:31 PM
>
>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:31:58 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
>wrote:
>
>>And if you don't like it, you move away. That's the great thing about
>sound. It dissapates.
>
>Not always. In an enclosed space, sometimes secondary reflections
>create a situation where the sound doesn't seem any quieter as you
>move away from the near-field of the speaker stacks, and it just
>sounds more diffuse, harsh and unpleasant in the back of the room. In
>such a room there is no escape.
>
>--dnb
================================
This is known as the "critical distance".
Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
2528 19 St. S.W., Calgary, Ab.,
Canada T2T 4X3
Ph. 1 403 244 4434 Fx. 1 403 244 9026
================================
=========================================================================
From: Carter Hendricks <carterh@crl.com>
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:56:02 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
A while ago I went to this bar to hear
some oldtimer St Louis blues musicians.
One guy in the back played guitar with a
little, 2-foot tall tube [?] amp & speaker.
Beautiful tone. Sweet music. I listened
to him all evening, but through a thick
evil smoke haze of loud loud PA and
guitar amps. I don't know why all the
other guys had to play so painfully loud
through such painfully bad equipment.
But two things were clear to me: The guy
in the back was playing music. And what
the guys in front did had nothing to do
with Sound Practices.
--Carter
At 11:31 AM 1/10/99 -0500, Ken Gilbert wrote:
> That's the great thing about sound. It dissapates.
Well, that's -one- great thing, I guess.
At least sometimes. But there are other
qualities of more interest to me.
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:31:12 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
On Sat, 09 Jan 1999 14:15:40 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
wrote:
>IMHO, 90 percent of the key to great guitar tone is in the EQ-ing.
In my opinion, 90 percent of the key to great guitar tone is in the
player's hands. I've heard players who sound good through any rig
they plug into, even Peavey crap-o-tone stuff, and other guys who
sound crappy no matter how nice their axe and rig are, and no matter
how much time is spent tweaking the EQ.
At my live sound gig, we have a blues jam every Tuesday night. The
bandleader is a guitarist in his early 60s, who used to be in the Ike
& Tina Turner Revue back in the 1970s. Some nights he shows up with a
vintage Gibson ES-335 guitar and a blackface Fender Super Reverb-Amp,
other times he'll bring a plywood Korean Squier Strat and a Peavey
Session 120 transistor guitar amp with one 12" speaker. I would defy
anyone to hear the difference, he sounds exactly the same every time.
The tone is in his right hand.
The blues club that sponsors the jam has a house amplifier for
guitarists who don't bring their own, a rather horrid transistorized
"red knob" Fender Pro-185 2x12" combo amp. It's really funny to hear
how different this amp sounds depending on who plugs into it. There
are a couple of guys who sound great through it, and many who, while
being good players, just can't master the beast.
But this works both ways. My personal guitar technique (or lack
thereof...) allows me to get a great tone through just about any sort
of Fender, Vox, or Marshall amp, but I can't get a good tone through a
Mesa/Boogie to save my life -- there's just too much honky, squawky
midrange that won't go away no matter what I try, no bottom, no top,
just boxy and small-sounding. But I know plenty of other guys who
sound good through that kind of amp. So I guess there's no
one-size-fits-all formula for great guitar tone.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:31:13 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:31:58 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
wrote:
> I live in America, where it's not against the law to push some dB's.
There are communities, even in the USA, which have noise ordinances.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:31:14 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:31:58 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
wrote:
>And if you don't like it, you move away. That's the great thing about sound. It dissapates.
Not always. In an enclosed space, sometimes secondary reflections
create a situation where the sound doesn't seem any quieter as you
move away from the near-field of the speaker stacks, and it just
sounds more diffuse, harsh and unpleasant in the back of the room. In
such a room there is no escape.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: geetars (WAS reg PS)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:09:56 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
In a message dated 99-01-10 11:34:17 EST, ride5000@ride.ri.net writes:
>
> Yeah, I smoke cigarettes too. I also ride motorcycles, scuba dive, sail,
> ski, take hallucinogenic drugs, and jump out of airplanes.
>
Seems as if you can't decide whether you're just shooting for total deafness,
or to commit suicide altogether. . . ;-)
>
> If you have some vague notion that I have a 600W guitar amp so that people
> can SIT DOWN... well, it just ain't that way! And let me tell you, we've
> played some gigs where 50 percent of the audience leaves after 10 seconds.
>
Sheesh!! What nerve! Well, there's just no accounting for brains, eh?
Best,
Anna
=========================================================================
From: jc morrison <jc@underline.net>
Subject: gel-cell/lead acid question
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:01:54 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n154
does anyone out there know anything about this:
i am building a battery powered phono/line preamp, 156volt (13 batteries)
supply, i have started working on the charger and i have noticed
something... gel cells are fucking crazy low impedance charged or
discharged. my meager understanding of lead acid batteries is that they act
primarily as big capacitors when you charge them. the few yuasa's i have
are like that, really obviously. but power sonic gel-cells are different.
they draw huge current even if discharged just a little bit. what gives?
anyone know? i am going to have to rethink my charger design because of
this. and i am also worried now about current sharing between the cells.
apparently i will have to seriously current limit (a 160v compliance!), and
perhaps more. this is a much more complex deal than i had imagined. fun too!
jc
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: gel-cell/lead acid question
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 21:14:18 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n154
jc morrison wrote:
>
> does anyone out there know anything about this:
> i am building a battery powered phono/line preamp, 156volt (13 batteries)
> supply, i have started working on the charger and i have noticed
> something... gel cells are fucking crazy low impedance charged or
> discharged. my meager understanding of lead acid batteries is that they act
> primarily as big capacitors when you charge them. the few yuasa's i have
> are like that, really obviously. but power sonic gel-cells are different.
> they draw huge current even if discharged just a little bit. what gives?
> anyone know? i am going to have to rethink my charger design because of
> this. and i am also worried now about current sharing between the cells.
> apparently i will have to seriously current limit (a 160v compliance!), and
> perhaps more. this is a much more complex deal than i had imagined. fun too!
> jc
Hi
Batteries are a chemical system so the capacitor analogy isn't quite
right, think of the discharge curve for most batteries and you have a
very slowly declining voltage until you reach the "turnover" and then it
slopes down drastically. Assuming the batteries are all in series,
current sharring is taken care of automatically. Most batteries have the
longest life when trickle charged anyway so a resistor connected to a
supply only a little more than rated voltage is a simple fix.
Many batteries can be damaged by over charging and most exibit a
temperature rise when fully charged, the best Ni-cad chargers judge shut
off based on temperature.
Batteries seem like a good way to eliminate power supply hum and
assuming the charge circuit is completly dis-connected when in use, a
good way to eliminate the possibility of ground loop hum too.
How large (physically) is the battery pack ?
Tom
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@blackrock.com>
Subject: Re: gel-cell/lead acid question
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:12:54 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n155
On Jan 6, 9:01am, jc morrison wrote:
> does anyone out there know anything about this:
> i am building a battery powered phono/line preamp, 156volt (13 batteries)
> supply, i have started working on the charger and i have noticed
> something... gel cells are fucking crazy low impedance charged or
> discharged.
This is one of the great things about lead-acid: they are just about the
lowest impedance battery, if I remember right. They are also super-durable,
tollerant of abuse (though not deep discharge, unless specifically designed
for that), provide a very nice discharge curve, etc.
One of the indicators a lead acid cell is nearing the end of its useful life
is a rise in internal impedance; the $$$ chargers in things like UPS systems
actually measure this and give a warning indication, time to change the
batteries. For charging, I think there are a few dedicated controller chips
out there (they must be specific to lead acid, you can't use a NiCd
controller for a lead acid cell); check people like Maxim. (Several UPS
system vendors are also on the Web, and some of them have tech papers
available about batteries, etc) But you can get away with a simple charger;
just look at the chargers in cars, etc. Gel cells, in particular, though, do
not like to be fast charged: this can boil the electrolyte and cause nasty
problems (plate flaking, etc). Slow is better.
> my meager understanding of lead acid batteries is that they act
> primarily as big capacitors when you charge them.
This is the low impedance coupled with the gradual fall off; its actually a
feature, not a bug!
> and i am also worried now about current sharing between the cells.
Not a problem unless the battery is deep-discharged (then its toast). So,
just prevent deep-discharge by building a cutout into the device being
powered -- then, no charger worries.
> apparently i will have to seriously current limit (a 160v compliance!), and
> perhaps more. this is a much more complex deal than i had imagined. fun
too!
To make the charger simpler, you might want to think about doing the charging
in parallel, rather than series. Though the switching might be more
involved, it might be simpler in the end. Also, instead of a high-tech CCS,
you might find that just a big 'ol 'balast resistor' on the supply line works
just fine!
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: SHAMSUL Bahrin Kamarudin <shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my>
Subject: George Kaye tube tester ?
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:18:57 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n319
Greetings.
Anyone knows their email address ? Need some info regarding the George Kaye
tube tester.
Regards.
::-)
\\\///
/ _ _ \
(| (.)(.) |)
|--------.OOOo--()--oOOO.-- mailto:shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my -|
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ H/P: 019-8107360 TEL: 6088-244185 FAX: 6088-251679 _/
_/ http://www.innosabah.com.my _/
_/ ======================================================== _/
_/ TO BECOME A LEADING HI-TECH, PEOPLE ORIENTED FINANCIAL _/
_/ SERVICES COMPANY WHICH OFFERS WORLD CLASS _/
_/ INNOVATIVE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES _/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ THIS IS A | INNOSABAH SECURITIES SDN BHD (194990-K) _/
_/ COMPUTER GENERATED | 11 EQUITY HOUSE, BLOCK K, _/
_/ ELECTRONIC MAIL | SADONG JAYA, KARAMUNSING, _/
_/ AND IS DEEMED TO | 88100 KOTA KINABALU, SABAH, _/
_/ HAVE BEEN SIGNED | M A L A Y S I A _/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
=========================================================================
From: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: Georg Solti passing
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:18:51 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
Hi all,
I case you haven't heard with all the Princess Diana stuff going on ,
conductor Sir Georg Solti died last Friday. I didn't find out until this week.
He was full of life and passion and will be sorely missed by all lovers of
great music. He was one of the last of the great Old Country conductors of
his generation.
The end of an era is nearer.....
- Ralph
=========================================================================
From: Keiko Honjo <KHONJO@IMF.ORG>
Subject: Georg Solti passing -Reply
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:16:33 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
Ralph,
I truly agree with you. The end of era is near. Solti was great, he could
extract the power from the CSO and at the same time still control its inner
ensemble in a perfect way.
Did you also know that Richter (pianist) and Cheribidache died and if you
like Bruckner, Gunter Wand, who is sort of THE conductor for Bruckner
is in very ill now?
Keiko
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Georg Solti passing -Reply
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:45:55 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
At 12:16 PM -0400 9/11/97, Keiko Honjo wrote:
>Ralph,
>
>I truly agree with you. The end of era is near. Solti was great, he could
>extract the power from the CSO and at the same time still control its inner
>ensemble in a perfect way.
>
>Did you also know that Richter (pianist) and Cheribidache died and if you
>like Bruckner, Gunter Wand, who is sort of THE conductor for Bruckner
>is in very ill now?
>
>Keiko
And Klaus Tenstedt, probably our best Mahlerian (IMHO) is battling cancer.
I heard that EMI has an agreement with Celibidache's heirs to release some
concert performances. Any other classical fans read or heard about this?
=========================================================================
From: Keiko Honjo <KHONJO@IMF.ORG>
Subject: Re: Georg Solti passing -Reply -Reply
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:06:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
>I heard that EMI has an agreement with Celibidache's heirs to release
>some concert performances. Any other classical fans read or heard
>about this?
Yes, I read some information about 3,4 month ago, probably on
gramophone(british). I do not recall very well what was released but
they have been already available in Germany since August (not in usa).
And don't forget Giulini who cannot travel anymore!
Keiko
=========================================================================
From: ldmo@cbmaila.cb.lucent.com
Subject: Get together on 6/14/98
Date: 1 Jun 98 14:34:00 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n298
To those who may be interested,
I'm planning a get together somewhat similar to the "Sunday, Sunday,
Sunday" event that Steve C, Rimmer, Chadd and I had. This get together
will be in Ada, Ohio. It has been suggested that I put together some
sort of tube construction activity with some associated theory of
operation and practical experience.
So, here's your chance to provide some input on what you would like, as
well as, a chance to do something in the Midwest, no less!
Please respond to: ldmoore@lucent.com
I must know within the week if you plan on attenting as well as to
provide some time for planning.
Thanks and I hope to see you there,
L.D. Moore
=========================================================================
From: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
Subject: get transformer design software demo
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:14:56 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
Just stumbled over this one on the web. Intusoft has done it again, it
seems. Still downloading it myself....
http://www.intusoft.com/mag.htm
cheers, finn
- --
HOME OF
Tractrix Horns, Tube Amps,
Fieldcoil Loudspeakers and Computer Graphics
http://home5.inet.tele.dk/f-hammer/
=========================================================================
From: Carter Hendricks <carterh@crl.com>
Subject: Ghiraldi / Online Antique Bookshelf
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 20:27:59 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n333
>X-POP3-Rcpt: carterh@mail
>From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
>To: <carterh@crl.com>
>Subject: Online Antique Bookshelf
>(http://www.agtannenbaum.com/bookshlf.html)
>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:21:17 -0500
>>
While looking for something else found several
copies of Radio Physics Course [Ghiraldi]
including one at the above address & cheap
enough [$20]. It is a good, useful book, and
not too hard to find...
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Gibbetted
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:18:05 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n365
Let me express my gratitude for the rope party I have been feted with for
the last several days. If you think the public postings wishing me ill
have been dudgeonish, you should see what has reached me privately. I
have been sent test documents, apparently, exploring the limits of some
Joenetters' vocabulary. But I forgive you all. The reasonable inference
is that some mighty unpleasant things have occurred here in recent memory,
and wounds are still festering.
My ill-advised attempt at drollery came about thus: Back a year or two
ago, a violent argument developed here among several members. I do not
recall who (I confess to the defect of being a poor grievance collector),
but one party to the disagreement became quite personal and disparaged
Mikey's professional competence. In the course of the debate I stepped
forward with a tedious lecture on the scientific covenant of authority,
which stated succinctly is that no man is ever entitled to assert
authority, and that all men, the high and low alike, are obliged to
demonstrate authority in every statement they make. Something is so not
because a Nobel laureate asserts it is, only if he demonstrates it is.
The street version of this principle is put up or shut up.
Somehow Mikey and I started a correspondence in which I counselled him to
take patience, thicken his hide, and focus his argument against a scatter
attack. I don't recall whether it was privately or publicly, but at one
point he noted that if he were the incompetent his abusive adversary
depicted him as, he would long since be jobless and out on the street. My
reference to his living under a bridge was actually an ironic allusion to
his having had the last laugh. Because it was an inside reference, it
could not have been understood by those who felt impelled to defend him.
I should not have sent the message to the list at large, though in fact I
think I did this group of Tasmanian Devils a service by rallying the clan.
Noli me tangere. The brotherhood has been reconsecrated.
The problem of trolls and psychopaths is a real one on internet discussion
groups. I saw an unmoderated classical music list destroyed by one
individual, who redoubled his efforts as he fell ever more deeply into
vicious misconduct. I am sensible that members of this present club feel
justifiably protective of it. It is a kind of magazine, but a coffee-pot
magazine. That is, it is a magazine without editorship. That means that
the worst comes along with the best. But as to utility and value, the
best of this list has to rate among the uppermost echelon of topical
groups.
Clearly the best way to treat disrupters is to shun them and deprive them
of their fun. Not an easy task for those whose impulse is to take arms
against invaders. I hope the zealous, and frankly nearly hysterical
sensitivity to those perceived as praying out of unison is an indication
of an incomplete recovery from recent battles. Let me explain. In the
eighties feminism in America was taken over by academic feminists. A
central plank of their party was that humor was a means of oppression.
What became clear within a few years was that these academic feminists
were using this argument as part of a larger plan, one in which they
demanded the right not to be judged by objective standards. Reason was
attacked as the specious tool of oppression of what they called a white
male hegemony.
On occasion it is true that gainsayers are interested in conflict and not
debate or even the issue at hand. But we need to remind ourselves that
those whose reasoned disagreement compels us to improve our knowledge do
us a greater service than those who excuse us from our best. It is not
dissent that spoils this magazine but professional disrupters. No virtue
healthier than the ability to laugh at oneself.
Be assured that I intend not to be your gadfly. I do have an agenda, but
more of that if I can survive these wounds. Anyone got some lactate of
Ringers handy? Sutures? I'll need help with these medical bills.
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@lscpdx.latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: Gibbetted
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:17:04 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n366
Didn't mean to be chicken-shit and just send this to Doug...
just like the good old days, Reid is back, Doug is back, JC
came back a while ago, we've had some entertainment from some
guy in New York, now we're having an off topic discusion on
cars again (gag, now the're minivans though, we MUST be getting old)
remember when the only thing people had to get pissed about
was off topic discussions about cars?
- -grego
- ----- Forwarded message from Grego Sanguinetti <grego@lscpdx.latticesemi.com> -----
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:09:07 -0700
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@lscpdx.latticesemi.com>
To: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: Gibbetted
> Let me express my gratitude for the rope party I have been feted with for
> the last several days. If you think the public postings wishing me ill
> have been dudgeonish, you should see what has reached me privately. I
Sheesh, lighten up guys!
> Joenetters' vocabulary. But I forgive you all. The reasonable inference
> is that some mighty unpleasant things have occurred here in recent memory,
> and wounds are still festering.
yup, looks that way. Bunch of folks saying "no, not again...". Especially
since the list has been very interesting lately.
> My ill-advised attempt at drollery came about thus: Back a year or two
wow Doug, obscure. I missed that entirely. At face value it sounded pretty
mean spirited. Way out of character, not enough bulge in the cheek. I
figured there was something else there. Thanks for the explaination. I
hate it when someone has to explain the punchline to me....
> the worst comes along with the best. But as to utility and value, the
> best of this list has to rate among the uppermost echelon of topical
> groups.
I'll take you for face value on that B^)
> No virtue healthier than the ability to laugh at oneself.
Here, here! the crux of your post.
Hell, for the last 20+ years I have made my living as an engineer working
on semiconductors. Yet I prefer the sound of tubes and horns filled
with enough technical flaws and obsolesence to fill a library. Ya just
gotta laugh at that!
When my colleges ask me why, I say; "Hey, they just sound better. Hell
I don't really know why. Maybe for the same reason I drive that old Triumph.
I just like it." Then I tell them they can come over and listen if they
bring beer.... Of course I have to sit patiently while they tell me how they
could do the same thing with DSP.... "yeah well bring it over when
you're done..."
> Be assured that I intend not to be your gadfly. I do have an agenda, but
> more of that if I can survive these wounds. Anyone got some lactate of
> Ringers handy? Sutures? I'll need help with these medical bills.
>
> Doug Purl
Just drink beer, it's cheaper. Stick around Doug, they need the
excersize. B^)
- -grego (who tries to save his passion for making music, not arguing about
how it should be reproduced)
- ----- End forwarded message -----
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grego Sanguinetti, Lattice Semiconductor Corp. | Water, water everywhere,
grego@latticesemi.com | but I'd rather drink beer
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: Gibbetted
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:57:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n366
At 4:18 PM -0600 7/29/98, Douglas Purl wrote:
>Anyone got some lactate of Ringers handy? Sutures? I'll need help with
>these medical bills.
Sorry, my HMO doesn't cover sutures anymore, it only provides needle and
thread at the outpatient desk. I do have a drawerful of extra-large (so
large they are veritably gap-toothed) smilies which might come in handy
next time ;-)
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Gibbetted
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:30:36 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n366
On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Grover Gardner wrote:
> Sorry, my HMO doesn't cover sutures anymore, it only provides needle and
> thread at the outpatient desk. I do have a drawerful of extra-large (so
> large they are veritably gap-toothed) smilies which might come in handy
> next time ;-)
Crazy glue, anyone?
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Bob C <bobc@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Gibbetted
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:51:31 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n366
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
To: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 3:37 PM
Subject: Gibbetted
>Be assured that I intend not to be your gadfly. I do have an agenda, but
>more of that if I can survive these wounds. Anyone got some lactate of
>Ringers handy? Sutures? I'll need help with these medical bills.
>
>Doug Purl
You come here with the salt spreader going full blast, and now you are
asking for help with "your" wounds... May I suggest Bellevue!!!
Bob
=========================================================================
From: An-shyang Chu <achu@sandia.gov>
Subject: Re[2]: Gibbetted
Date: 30 Jul 1998 08:36:10 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n367
Hi Grego,
What a great line!! Stop arguing with sand people since I build my first SE amp
a while back.
hopper
_______________________________________________________________________________
.......
- -grego (who tries to save his passion for making music, not arguing about
how it should be reproduced)
.
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Gibbetted
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:38:50 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n367
Grego Sanguinetti wrote:
> remember when the only thing people had to get pissed about
> was off topic discussions about cars?
Or bikes.....
Christian (V2, 96 cui)
>
>
> -grego
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Grego Sanguinetti <grego@lscpdx.latticesemi.com> -----
> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:09:07 -0700
> From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@lscpdx.latticesemi.com>
> To: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
> Subject: Re: Gibbetted
>
> > Let me express my gratitude for the rope party I have been feted with for
> > the last several days. If you think the public postings wishing me ill
> > have been dudgeonish, you should see what has reached me privately. I
>
> Sheesh, lighten up guys!
>
> > Joenetters' vocabulary. But I forgive you all. The reasonable inference
> > is that some mighty unpleasant things have occurred here in recent memory,
> > and wounds are still festering.
>
> yup, looks that way. Bunch of folks saying "no, not again...". Especially
> since the list has been very interesting lately.
>
> > My ill-advised attempt at drollery came about thus: Back a year or two
>
> wow Doug, obscure. I missed that entirely. At face value it sounded pretty
> mean spirited. Way out of character, not enough bulge in the cheek. I
> figured there was something else there. Thanks for the explaination. I
> hate it when someone has to explain the punchline to me....
>
> > the worst comes along with the best. But as to utility and value, the
> > best of this list has to rate among the uppermost echelon of topical
> > groups.
>
> I'll take you for face value on that B^)
>
> > No virtue healthier than the ability to laugh at oneself.
>
> Here, here! the crux of your post.
>
> Hell, for the last 20+ years I have made my living as an engineer working
> on semiconductors. Yet I prefer the sound of tubes and horns filled
> with enough technical flaws and obsolesence to fill a library. Ya just
> gotta laugh at that!
>
> When my colleges ask me why, I say; "Hey, they just sound better. Hell
> I don't really know why. Maybe for the same reason I drive that old Triumph.
> I just like it." Then I tell them they can come over and listen if they
> bring beer.... Of course I have to sit patiently while they tell me how they
> could do the same thing with DSP.... "yeah well bring it over when
> you're done..."
>
> > Be assured that I intend not to be your gadfly. I do have an agenda, but
> > more of that if I can survive these wounds. Anyone got some lactate of
> > Ringers handy? Sutures? I'll need help with these medical bills.
> >
> > Doug Purl
>
> Just drink beer, it's cheaper. Stick around Doug, they need the
> excersize. B^)
>
> -grego (who tries to save his passion for making music, not arguing about
> how it should be reproduced)
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Grego Sanguinetti, Lattice Semiconductor Corp. | Water, water everywhere,
> grego@latticesemi.com | but I'd rather drink beer
- --
Christian Rintelen Konzept und Text
Dufourstrasse 165 CH-8008 Zurich Switzerland
Phone +41 1 420 11 55 Fax +41 1 420 11 57
E-Mail: rintelen@datacomm.ch
=========================================================================
From: "Bruce Nilson" <bnilson@FCB.COM>
Subject: Re: Gibbetted
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:34:11 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n368
Doesn't the tripe from Purl sound a lot like Jute but with a different
accent?
Bruce Nilson
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Gibbetted
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:06:56 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n368
On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:34:11 +0000, "Bruce Nilson" <bnilson@FCB.COM>
wrote:
>Doesn't the tripe from Purl sound a lot like Jute but with a different
>accent?
I don't recall Doug ever bragging about kneecapping anyone, training
terrorists, or of having sold designs to major manufacturers only six
months after he first learned the difference between a cathode and
catheter.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:43:59 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n370
Frank, you have a good mind, I've seen some very inspiring posts from you in
past times. I don't really understand what motivates you to change from a
very lucid individual with very creative thoughts to someone so bent on
creating grief for others. If you feel that you have good reason, I am sorry
for you that circumstances have put you in a situation where you feel you
must take this approach to make a point.
Last time you started this up, even though not directed at me, you pulled me
into a situation that created all sorts of problems. I refuse to bore both
joelist and myself with anymore bullshit.
I have a lot to do for the next month or so, so it seems a doubly good time
to say goodbye.
Thanks to all who have been good friends here over the past couple years.
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@blackrock.com>
Subject: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:51:02 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n370
On Jul 29, 6:17pm, Grego Sanguinetti wrote:
> just like the good old days, Reid is back, Doug is back, JC
> came back a while ago, we've had some entertainment from some
> guy in New York, now we're having an off topic discusion on
> cars again (gag, now the're minivans though, we MUST be getting old)
>
> remember when the only thing people had to get pissed about
> was off topic discussions about cars?
Round and round we go -- the more things change, the more they stay the same!
Maybe I have a bit of a different perspective on this, as I've been only
spot-reading the list for the past few months (never left, but way too busy
and rather burned out), but what really has changed in the past year or so?
I mean, the list has yet again just recently covered the all-important
subjects of grounding, bench safety, cathode followers, cars (well,
minivans), and the ever-present "which tube is best". And now there is yet
another discussion of legal protection for rehashed re-discovered "original
ideas" and "intellectual property". I suppose some things are different --
the VSAC updates are now hourly instead of weekly, but overall.....
And what about the whole issue of audio in general? A few years back, most
everyone on this list would have at least sharply recoiled at the mere
mention of ABX testing for audio equipment; now, though, the list has not
only discussed ABX testing, but there was active support for a double-blind
ABX test to determine the best 300B at VSAC -- with ANOVA analysis, to boot!
What's up with that? Have we really come full circle?
How depressing -- gag me with a frigging 2A3.
And what of the spirit of openess and sharing -- whither that? I note that
all our favorite tubie pubs are now sporting legal notices to the effect of
"thou shalt build one and only one copy which thou shalt not sell, give away,
or lend to thine neighbor, under penalty of, well, we'll think of something."
Yet there is no legal basis for such notices, as has been covered here ad
infinitum (Doug's back, gotta get them big words in), as ideas have no
protection in the eyes of the law. (You can protect an innovation -- through
a patent -- or an expression -- through a copyright -- but not an idea.) If
sharing is discouraged through groundless legal threats, can you really call
it openness?
So here's my question: now that we have advertising masquerading as sharing,
and ever-present, ever more authoritative pronouncements of the right tubes,
the right topologies, the right parts, have we not come full circle right
back to the mainstream audio world we left in disgust? Somehow, my mind
keeps drifting back to a certain rather prescient (Doug again, you know) post
by a certain poster we all love to hate.... (Perahps a repost is in order;
still got it, Doug?)
(Curious thing, though: the most helpful, best written, from-the-heart
contributions, such as JC's tube primer, always seem to be freely given,
graciously offered to the public domain, take as you will. I wonder why this
is...?)
So, what's next? And whither (or perhaps wither?) tubes and truth?
- -frank, who is waiting -- with baited (sic [that's for Doug, one mo' time])
breath -- for the best 300B tube (as determined by double-blind ABX testing)
to be available for purchase at the bottlehead.com webstore....
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:23:21 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n370
Frank & all-
Sorry to hear you've been feeling burned out, Frank. Your posts are
always valuable; hope you will feel less stressed soon!
Your latest triggered some thoughts to which I'd like to respond. I've
done so below, interspersed with your text (which I've snipped
some...).
- -Paul Joppa
Frank Deutschmann wrote:
>
> Round and round we go -- the more things change, the more they stay the same!
> Maybe I have a bit of a different perspective on this, as I've been only
> spot-reading the list for the past few months (never left, but way too busy
> and rather burned out), but what really has changed in the past year or so?
I see it as iterative refinement - we re-visit the same subjects
because they are especially interesting, but _we_ are different each
time, have some new perspectives or experience to contribute. And so
we all continue to learn. OK, there's a fair amount of repetition, but
that's partly because there's always a certain number of new people.
One of the strengths of this community is its openness to beginners
coupled with the presence of some very knowledgeable and experienced
people.
...snip...
> And what about the whole issue of audio in general? A few years back, most
> everyone on this list would have at least sharply recoiled at the mere
> mention of ABX testing for audio equipment; now, though, the list has not
> only discussed ABX testing, but there was active support for a double-blind
> ABX test to determine the best 300B at VSAC -- with ANOVA analysis, to boot!
> What's up with that? Have we really come full circle?
An anti-ABX bias, which seems largely an anti-science bias, seems to
be a knee-jerk reaction of the "conventional" high-end (if such a
phrase has any meaning). This "alternative"(?) group seems willing to
re-examine most assumptions, including this one. (My recollection is
that the consensus was still to recoil from the low resolution and low
dimensionality of statistical testing, but more thoughtfully and less
sharply.)
> And what of the spirit of openess and sharing -- whither that? I note that
> all our favorite tubie pubs are now sporting legal notices to the effect of
> "thou shalt build one and only one copy which thou shalt not sell, give away,
> or lend to thine neighbor, under penalty of, well, we'll think of something."
> Yet there is no legal basis for such notices, as has been covered here ad
> infinitum (Doug's back, gotta get them big words in), as ideas have no
> protection in the eyes of the law. (You can protect an innovation -- through
> a patent -- or an expression -- through a copyright -- but not an idea.) If
> sharing is discouraged through groundless legal threats, can you really call
> it openness?
This is a good point. Everyone has some proprietary feelings for their
designs, and those who are making a living from them especially so,
but those feelings are at odds with the feeling of community. I
imagine this issue will reappear periodically, and I think it should,
as long as it doesn't drown out the music!
> So here's my question: now that we have advertising masquerading as sharing,
> and ever-present, ever more authoritative pronouncements of the right tubes,
> the right topologies, the right parts, have we not come full circle right
> back to the mainstream audio world we left in disgust? Somehow, my mind
> keeps drifting back to a certain rather prescient (Doug again, you know) post
> by a certain poster we all love to hate.... (Perahps a repost is in order;
> still got it, Doug?)
Certainly there are some posts that sound pompously authoritive, but
it seems to me that they are usually not taken too seriously by the
rest of the list. Fortunately there are a fair number of members who
delight in iconoclasm, so anyone who sets themselves up as an icon
.... There remains in this group many who are more interested in
adventure and experiment than in a mindless pursuit of "the best".
> (Curious thing, though: the most helpful, best written, from-the-heart
> contributions, such as JC's tube primer, always seem to be freely given,
> graciously offered to the public domain, take as you will. I wonder why this
> is...?)
An astute observation. According to Peter Senge, as I understand him,
this expresses one of the characteristics of a creative community, so
it should be no surprise that these contributions have an
extraordinary power. Things like this are at the heart of the
community aspects of alternative audio or whatever it is that this
list's members have in common.
> ...snip...
> -frank, who is waiting -- with baited (sic [that's for Doug, one mo' time])
> breath -- for the best 300B tube (as determined by double-blind ABX testing)
> to be available for purchase at the bottlehead.com webstore....
I can't speak for Dan, but for the "tasting" planned in August, I
intend to do as much as I can to avoid good-better-best ranking of
300B's in favor of identifying different perceptions and the diversity
of what people hear and what they think is important. I personally
will be very disappointed if there is a winner, and I'll be quite
happy if each person leaves the room with a different set of
impressions.
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:33:34 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n370
>I can't speak for Dan, but for the "tasting" planned in August, I
>intend to do as much as I can to avoid good-better-best ranking of
>300B's in favor of identifying different perceptions and the diversity
>of what people hear and what they think is important. I personally
>will be very disappointed if there is a winner, and I'll be quite
>happy if each person leaves the room with a different set of
>impressions.
I want to personally thank Paul Joppa for the "Tube Tasting" last year at
the VSAC. Although I'm not exactly used to hearing mono Lowthers (no
assessment possible vis-a-vis 3D qualities, stereo naturalness, etc) I was
frankly stunned at the differences between globe 45's, later ST 45's,
monoplate NOS 2A3 versus recent bi-plate 2A3's, etc. Not small differences
at all. They were impossible to rank, since the sound was so different,
although I'm sure we all had our favorites.
It reminded me of one of the best of the bygone Oregon Triode Society
meeting where one of the members brought in a broadcast stereo FM
modulator, a CD player, and a pile of RF attenuators and splitters. We
compared a Marantz 10B, Fisher 200B, McIntosh MR67, McKay Dymek, and
several recent (expensive) Japanese tuners. As with the tube testing, big
big differences that were quite surprising and unexpected. (To forestall
any suspense, the *tube* tuners passed the direct-connection vs tuner test,
and guess what, the "accurate" transistor tuners flunked. One $800 high-end
transistor tuner sounded like an AM radio, it was so colored.)
Lynn T. Olson
Editor, Valve & Tube News
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:10:20 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n370
Lynn T. Olson wrote:
>
> I want to personally thank Paul Joppa for the "Tube Tasting" last year at
> the VSAC. Although I'm not exactly used to hearing mono Lowthers (no
> assessment possible vis-a-vis 3D qualities, stereo naturalness, etc) I was
> frankly stunned at the differences between globe 45's, later ST 45's,
> monoplate NOS 2A3 versus recent bi-plate 2A3's, etc. Not small differences
> at all. They were impossible to rank, since the sound was so different,
> although I'm sure we all had our favorites.
Please note: this tasting was Grego Sanguinetti's presentation. I just
helped schlep around some power supplies for it. All thanks are due to
Grego. And I'd like to add mine; it was surprisingly revealing and
educational.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:07:23 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n370
Frank Deutschmann wrote:
> Round and round we go -- the more things change, the more they stay the
> same! Maybe I have a bit of a different perspective on this, as I've
> been only
> spot-reading the list for the past few months (never left, but way too busy
> and rather burned out), but what really has changed in the past year or so?
Hey, Frank. You read all the trade rags, don't you? Electronic Design, EDN, etc,
etc. They all do the same thing. My favorite theme is active filters. They seem
to get reinvented every 18 months. Every time a manufacturer comes out with a new
chip, they go about explaining Sallen-Key, biquads, element sensitivity, as if
this is all new stuff. Oscillators, too.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I attribute this all to changing readership. Engineers and
other teckies are a dynamic bunch. Our interests change. Folks come and go. I
can't archive all the paid advertising that comes through here masquerading as
technical periodicals. Sometimes this regurgitated stuff comes at a good time, in
which case I keep it. Other times it's the round file. Thank goodness my town has
a recycling program.
Isn't it the same here on the JoeNet? Again, folks come and go. A few of us hang
around (maybe for too long?) in case something new happens. And it does, every
couple of months. But the newcomers seem to outnumber the oldtimers these days. I
don't mind these new spins on what for some of us might be an old theme. This is
(y)our chance to keep these folks pointed in the right direction, and you get to
define that direction based on your own personal experiences. That's what sharing
information is all about, isn't it?
What do you think?
JL
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:31:00 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n370
Here we are, serving up a feast for one another with the part of the bird
most of us discard. Let me attempt to give you the bird.
Nothing calmed me as much about human social behavior as watching those
langorous nature studies on TV of African primates. I am especially fond
of the maligned baboons, in part because the males are allowed to hang
around and play with the kids, but also because of their courage and
fidelity.
Consider the parlousness of their existence. Baboons live in a sub-alpine
desert. Though they thrive in trees, eating the fruits thereof, they
cannot repose in them. At night, they must scale steep rocks, lest
arboreal cats eat them, and sleep exposed. By day they must venture
dangerously out into the scrub desert to forage. It is a dauntless
intelligence and a devotion to one another that sustains them.
I think the Joenet is one of the premiere baboon societies in the world.
In part because it seems to remain the right size. There is a good deal
of grooming that takes place, but even the nit-picking tends to firm up
the social bond. And the hierarchy is based on knowledge, not
personality. No little virtue, that.
I contrast this with my site of long residence, the Bass/DIY loudspeaker
list. It numbers now 1600 or more. A handful of posters low on the
knowledge pole indulge themselves recurrently with chat, some posting 20
or more times a day to drop an opinion. The bad air drives out the good.
Many very knowledgable posters are now visible by their absence. The
one inestimable virtue the list retains is Tom Danley, whose knowledge
and uncannily apt experience are placed generously in service of the list
without stint or fanfare. I used to like to work out the physics of
problems on the list, but have become disinclined to enter into or
initiate such threads lest they open floodgates of anecdotal trivia, and I
notice that others interested in the science behind the sound have fallen
mute.
I cannot imagine but that Bottlehead Shane will not ride across the
Tetons. He needs this group as much as it needs him. He faced the evil
Wilson and Chris and beat them. He helped Mr. Starrett extirpate that old
paternal Oedipal stump in the yard, and he got Mrs. Starrett back into her
wedding dress by reawakening her sensuality. And taught little Joey
Starrett how to shoot straight. Not least, he made the valley safe for
women, children, and rowcrops.
Doc! Doc! Come back, Doc! We love you!
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:17:56 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n370
On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:43:59 -0700, "Doc B."
<bottlehead@silverlink.net> wrote:
>I have a lot to do for the next month or so, so it seems a doubly good time
>to say goodbye.
This is very bad news indeed. Please come back when you can.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Bob Chernofsky <bobc@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:08:11 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n371
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
To: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: Giblets
>Here we are, serving up a feast for one another with the part of the bird
>most of us discard. Let me attempt to give you the bird.
<SNIP>
Where is Charles Bronson when you need him?
Bob
=========================================================================
From: SSell71096@aol.com
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:01:25 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n372
Dear Dr. Purl,
> I contrast this with my site of long residence, the Bass/DIY loudspeaker
list. <snip>
The one inestimable virtue the list retains is Tom Danley, whose knowledge
and uncannily apt experience are placed generously in service of the list
without stint or fanfare. I used to like to work out the physics of problems
on the list, but have become disinclined to enter into or initiate such
threads lest they open floodgates of anecdotal trivia, and I notice that
others interested in the science behind the sound have fallen mute. <
While I haven't looked up old digests to see how it used to be, it does seem
that the SNR over there is rather high these days. I don't think, however,
that should dissuade you from your erudite contributions. You praise Doc B and
Tommy D, yet you have become eerily overcautious in airing your own neuronal
processes, despite others occasional lamentations about your relative silence
over on Bass. You even left there briefly a few months back (or at least you
said you were). But that didn't last for very long. You suggest that Dr. Dan
needs this forum (much as you seemed to need Bass) yet you've become too
silent. Please, dear Professor, share both hear (little heh heh) and there.
I'm not sure why you got run out of Joe town last time (perhaps there were
comments similar to that unfathomable leetle bomb you dropped the other day??)
as I haven't been here for all that long (at this stage I mostly lurk) but how
about sticking around and sharing your font of knowledge, much as you praise
others for.
aprreciatively,
dave
PS Doc this goes for you too. Mikey left for a spell a few months back after
someone mouthed off nastily and unnecessarily. Luckily he's back. Guys ('n
gals ; ie. everyone), how about keeping a lid on the tempermental outbursts.
That sort of destructive behaviour rarely accomplishes anything positive.
PPS Why is thread being called "Giblets"?
=========================================================================
From: "Bill Gaw" <whg@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Giblets
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:57:16 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n372
Am interested in subwoofers. Could somebody give me the address of this
group. Bill Gaw
- -----Original Message-----
From: SSell71096@aol.com <SSell71096@aol.com>
To: dcp@selway.umt.edu <dcp@selway.umt.edu>; sound@deliverator.io.com
<sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Giblets
>Dear Dr. Purl,
>> I contrast this with my site of long residence, the Bass/DIY loudspeaker
>list. <snip>
> The one inestimable virtue the list retains is Tom Danley, whose
knowledge
>and uncannily apt experience are placed generously in service of the list
>without stint or fanfare. I used to like to work out the physics of
problems
>on the list, but have become disinclined to enter into or initiate such
>threads lest they open floodgates of anecdotal trivia, and I notice that
>others interested in the science behind the sound have fallen mute. <
>
>While I haven't looked up old digests to see how it used to be, it does
seem
>that the SNR over there is rather high these days. I don't think, however,
>that should dissuade you from your erudite contributions. You praise Doc B
and
>Tommy D, yet you have become eerily overcautious in airing your own
neuronal
>processes, despite others occasional lamentations about your relative
silence
>over on Bass. You even left there briefly a few months back (or at least
you
>said you were). But that didn't last for very long. You suggest that Dr.
Dan
>needs this forum (much as you seemed to need Bass) yet you've become too
>silent. Please, dear Professor, share both hear (little heh heh) and there.
>I'm not sure why you got run out of Joe town last time (perhaps there were
>comments similar to that unfathomable leetle bomb you dropped the other
day??)
>as I haven't been here for all that long (at this stage I mostly lurk) but
how
>about sticking around and sharing your font of knowledge, much as you
praise
>others for.
>
>aprreciatively,
>dave
>
>PS Doc this goes for you too. Mikey left for a spell a few months back
after
>someone mouthed off nastily and unnecessarily. Luckily he's back. Guys ('n
>gals ; ie. everyone), how about keeping a lid on the tempermental
outbursts.
>That sort of destructive behaviour rarely accomplishes anything positive.
>
>PPS Why is thread being called "Giblets"?
>
=========================================================================
From: Dan Cradler <dcradler@mods.com>
Subject: Give Jute the boot
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:32:34 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n090
> Frank Deutschmann wrote:
>
> <<your public support would go a long way to achieving what you have
> told me you want: a Jute-free JoeNet.>>
You have my support. Although, I must say, this whole thing has been quite
amusing. Except that the signal to noise ratio on this list is now around
10db. Perhapes this list should be recharted as a group therapy forum for
those recovering from Jute-itis. The first step is to admit you have a
problem, the second to buy a shotgun...
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Cradler Modern Solutions
dcradler@modernsolutions.com Full-Service Web Space Provider
702-323-3341 http://www.mods.com
=========================================================================
From: An-shyang Chu <hopper@chtm.chtm.unm.edu>
Subject: give us VSAC info!!
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:38:35 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n010
Hi guys,
I am going to ask the question: what went on at the VSAC!!! Let the rest
of the us in on all the dirt. How was Sakuma's concert, Mike's new
trannies, "69", Exemplar, tube tasting, Mons, Afterglow 2A3, Edgarhorn,....
I WANT TO KNOW!!!
hopper
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: give us VSAC info!!
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:31:45 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n010
>Hi guys,
>
>I am going to ask the question: what went on at the VSAC!!! Let the rest
>of the us in on all the dirt. How was Sakuma's concert, Mike's new
>trannies, "69", Exemplar, tube tasting, Mons, Afterglow 2A3, Edgarhorn,....
>I WANT TO KNOW!!!
>
>hopper
I'll let others jump in on other subjects, but the "tube tasting" was a lot
of fun. There's this *big* breadboard (literally a piece of wood 1 by 3
feet) with more sockets and barrier terminal strips than anyone had ever
seen before. Behind this on the table is a big pile of laboratory power
supplies, and the whole thing is connected by a maze of wiring. Well, with
this contraption they are able to test (and listen to) just about any
output tube imaginable ... from 45 to 845 and a mess of other transmitter
tubes. (Input circuit was a conventional RC-coupled 6SN7 cascade a la
Reichert).
I stayed for about half the presentation and heard:
Chinese 2A3 (ugh!)
mono-plate 2A3 (absolutely wonderful, very very beautiful sound, a little
bass-light though)
globe 45 (wonderful also, maybe more detailed, not quite as "magic")
ST 45 (more audiophile, super-detailed, many audience members preferred this)
WE 300B (similar to mono-plate 45 and globe 45, but a bit more lush, also
lots more power in the bass)
845 (surprisingly good, and similar to the 45 but with much more power)
There were about 5 more transmitter tubes, but I didn't stay for them, had
to go take a bunch of photos for the magazines.
The Seattle club certainly has its share of comedians. After we've tested
the fifth tube or so, and the presenter briefly walks over to the right
speaker, one member of the audience loudly says, "Hey, something happened
to the right channel!" Of course, there's only one breadboard connected to
one Lowther - it was perfectly obvious that there were no wires connected
to the other Lowther the whole time!
The club had also dedicated a room to acoustical phonographs (mostly
working with lots of disks and cylinders) and the other side of the room
was dedicated to Golden-Age audio - some for sale! For instance, there was
a complete Quad system with the FM1 tuner, the stereo preamp, a pair of
Quad II power amps, and a matched pair of Quad ESL57's - all for $1800. Not
a bad deal for a lucky buyer. Sitting 3 feet away from the Quad's was a
Fisher 1000 tuner, and next to that, a McIntosh 240 amplifier in mint
condition. I heard the Quad system when they were setting up on Friday, and
it was (naturally) one of the best sounds at the show.
Oh yes ... Gary Dahl was walking on air Sunday after Sakuma heard his
VV30B/Ulbrich amplifier on Saturday evening and Sakuma proclaimed it "Gold
Medal" on the spot. During the Sakuma concert on Sunday, Sakuma went
further and collared Gary, pointed him out to the assembled audience, and
announced "Sakuma Junior!"
Sakuma-san was quite entertaining, singing along with music, waving his
hands to emphasize dramatic points, and telling little stories about the
songs before presenting them. I wonder what effect the concerts had on Dick
Olsher, who stayed for both parts, and was asking questions about the
845/845 PP amplifier at the end. (Note for those who left after the first
part of the concert; Sakuma switched amps for the second part, and went
over to the 845/845 PP amp, which sounded quite different and much closer
to US expectations of wideband sound.)
Lynn T. Olson
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Web: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
Editor, Valve & Tube News, and Associate Editor, Positive Feedback Magazine
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: give us VSAC info!!
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n010
On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, An-shyang Chu wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I am going to ask the question: what went on at the VSAC!!! Let the rest
> of the us in on all the dirt.
VSAC was very cool and very much worth the trip. Dan Schmalle did an excellent
job. Everyone I talked to was having a great time, I mean a really great time
and were commenting about how much they had learned. I will be there next
year!
> How was Sakuma's concert,
Sakuma chose some great music and is a wonderfull character. The system
however sounded like a 1960's PA system, which was somehow appropriate
for much of the music. I wouldn't want to listen to it at home though.
> Mike's new trannies,
Are very beautiful. A pair of which is being connected up to a VV52
on my board starting tomorrow night! I will use the big 10K output
tranny from the seminar as a plate load....
> "69",
?
> Exemplar,
Very well made, beautiful cabinets. Something still missing in the
mid range though. Another person noted an entire instrument missing.
I didn't hear anything that radical but I didn't hear any music
I was really familiar with.
> tube tasting,
went pretty well but got off to a late start because we had to swap
out a power supply. It was interesting to hear so many different
tubes in such a short period of time. We compared two pieces of
music with the following tubes (same amp and speakers (lowthers)..)
2A3 (single v.s. dual plate)
6B4G
300B
45 (globe v.s. st)
801/VT-62
SV811-10
SV572-10
845
211/VT-4-C
> Mons, Afterglow 2A3, Edgarhorn,....
lots of different equipment to look at and hear. I was amazed at
what lousy music I was hearing though (IMHO). It seems like stuff
was being chosen for purely system reasons. I was relieved to go
home and listen to my own system again. Next time I am going to
bring my own CD's that clearly is the trick!
The Mons pieces were very nice looking. Bruce's speakers were big,
especially that big bass horn. Very low WAF there B^) His talk was
very fun. He did some nice little experiments with an open driver
and a 1/4 horn box and with some cardboard exp and tractrix
megaphones.
The build quality of the Sun products was very good indeed.
Dan's vv52 amp got me going, made me want to finish mine fast!
For the first time ever, I heard (or at least I think I did)
a change in sound with a power cord swap. I am not certain how
I feel about that. Not a change that would be worth much money
though...certainly not all the things other people in the room
thought they were hearing. All the standard audiopile adjectives
were flowing freely B^) My ears are not golden it seems...
> I WANT TO KNOW!!!
I gotta go to a meeting, someone else will have to fill in more.
=========================================================================
From: Norm Luttbeg <nluttbeg@politics.tamu.edu>
Subject: RE: give us VSAC info!!
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:25:49 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n011
I would like to also followup on the VSAC and Grego's comments.
Overall, I greatly enjoyed it but meeting people and attending
lectures was more rewarding than listening to anything. None of the
rooms had any sound. I was struck that most of the people there
appreciated talking with fellow DIYers, workmanship, a circuit, or a
tube more than sound. I found this exhilarating since sound in