Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 1
=========================================================================
From: jc morrison <jcm@eclipse.net>
Subject: HA-100X
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 02:25:45 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n291
woops!
meant to say UTC HA-100X's, not peerless. sorry! slip of the keypad...
jc
=========================================================================
From: Mark Donen <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Half wave enclosure?
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:11:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n472
Hi all,
Does anyone have any advice on half wave enclosure design? I
thinkingabout making one for Focal 7V313 drivers and I read that this
has been done with this driver before. I want to try this approach as I
want to extend the low midrange as well as build a cabinet with the
least mid color additions as I can. And I hear this kind of enclosure is
very good in this respect, better than a box but with the reinforcement
that an open baffle can't touch. It only has to get down to 100 cycles
or so.
It may be a case of trial and error in the end, but I have the feeling
that someone has gone some way to a quantified scientific approach. Any
ideas?
Thanks if you do.
Mark
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: Half wave enclosure?
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:17:44 +1030
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n473
JC Morrison used the 7V313 with a tuned pipe in the speaker system he
described in SP#6 p14.
6" diameter by 22" long.
SP#6 is available on back issue from Joe Roberts. It does not include T/S
details.
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Donen [mailto:soledadd@worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Thursday, 29 October 1998 11:41 am
> To: Joenet
> Subject: Half wave enclosure?
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone have any advice on half wave enclosure design? I
> thinkingabout making one for Focal 7V313 drivers and I read that this
> has been done with this driver before. I want to try this
> approach as I
> want to extend the low midrange as well as build a cabinet with the
> least mid color additions as I can. And I hear this kind of
> enclosure is
> very good in this respect, better than a box but with the
> reinforcement
> that an open baffle can't touch. It only has to get down to 100 cycles
> or so.
>
> It may be a case of trial and error in the end, but I have the feeling
> that someone has gone some way to a quantified scientific
> approach. Any
> ideas?
>
> Thanks if you do.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@bfm.com>
Subject: Hall effect carts
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:45:55 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n078
On Oct 20, 6:36pm, Scott Grammer wrote:
> This is a bit off the beam, but when you said piezo force gauge, I
> thought of a spring/magnet/hall effect sensor rig, and then it hit me;
> Why doesn't anyone make a hall effect magnetic cartridge? What would you
> say to a cart that has low moving mass, a source impedance of say, 100
> ohms, and an output of say, 2V rms? How about it? Anybody wanna build
> their own cart? How about using the dc out from the cart to indicate the
> tracking force while a record is playing?
Good question. I think the problems (not necessarly unsolvable, though)
would be the following:
o Size/weight: the sensors alone are not that tiny.
o Power: this would need to be a powered loop, unlike current phono
cartridges. Not a big implementation detail, but perhaps a bit of a
marketing problem, as you would need to supply a cart, dedicated arm, and
dedicated interface box, and would eliminate any pre-existing "phono pre".
o Response speed/accuracy/hysteresis: for precision apps, such as measuring
current, Hall sensors are never used alone; rather, they are placed in the
magnetic path of an iron toroid which surrounds the conductor, concentrating
the field. The toroid plays an important role, boosting the strength of the
field, and, though it increases the hysteresis effects, these offset against
the effects in the sensor itself. For utmost precision, a magnetic nulling
circuit is used: the toroid is wrapped with a coil of wire, and an external
circuit varies the current in the toroid coil so that the Hall sensor alwyas
indicates a null; the current in the coil is then directly proportional to
the current under study -- this provides the fastest and most accurate field
sensing. However, this is obviously difficult to do in a phono cart, where
we want to look at movement, not current.
o Suspension resonance effects: the suspension of the magnet would need to be
designed very carefully, so that there are no unwanted resonances. This
aspect of cart design is, today, likely a "balck art": I doubt this sort of
trade secret info -- which is likely critical to good sound -- will be
available in books/pubs. Of course, the Hall cart has an advantage here, in
that the amp no longer affects cart suspension, but it would still be very
difficult to design and set it right.
Now, a new twist in the magnetic sensing world is GMR (or GMI) sensors; these
also detect fields, but operate on a different principle. These might also
show promise, though they have problems of their own.....
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
Subject: Re: Hall effect carts
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:05:57 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n079
Frank Deutschmann wrote:
> o Power: this would need to be a powered loop, unlike current phono
> cartridges. Not a big implementation detail, but perhaps a bit of a
> marketing problem, as you would need to supply a cart, dedicated arm, and
> dedicated interface box, and would eliminate any pre-existing "phono pre".
>
Frank,
The AudioNote IO cartridge is powered - I think it uses electr-magnetic
coils instead of magnets. The tonearm has to be specially wired
(theirs is). The IO costs up to about #12000 - depending on
the version you can't afford !
- --
Pete Drake
peterd@ndsuk.com
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut Quaschik <Hartmut.Quaschik@bku.db.de>
Subject: Hammond mic-xfrs
Date: 16 Dec 1998 10:35:57 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n541
Folks,
I had a phone call with a friend, who just discovered old mic xfrs, which he used
as moving coil pickup xfrs, and he told me they are very good.
All he knows is: they are from Hammond, Canada, and are potted in a grey
metal case. I might see them in the next weeks, so that I can tell more.
He also told me, that Rat Shack had bought all the surplus stuff a few years
ago, and they are out now.
Can somebody please give information, where to get such xfrs ?
thanks,
Hartmut
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Hammond Organ Amp
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:43:49 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n467
Hi all,
I've been asked by a friend of mine to see if anyone on the list can help
him with finding some info on a Hammond organ amp that he owns.
He tells me that it has written on the amp, "Webster Electric, Racine
WIS., 6122A 1A". It contains parallel PP 2A3's and two 6J5's or 56's.
He needs to know what the bias is for the tubes, what speakers the amps
were designed for and if anyone may have a copy of the circuit diagram.
It appears as though there was a seperate preamp for these amps which
provided the HT, bias and signal.
Can anyone help?
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: cgooch@jarl.cs.uop.edu
Subject: Re: Hammond Organ Amp, PPP 2A3's
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:48:01 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n469
I also have some Webster Electric amplifiers that I need info on. These
are rack mount 200w rms 230w music power using 4 8417's and 1 7199. The
Model number is WSA 230-1. I have strapping diagrams for output but no
other basic information and my search for info on them has come up with
almost nothing. I don't know where to set the bias. If anyone has info on
these amplifers I would sure be glad to hear about it.
Manuals...schematics...anything please.
Thanks.
Cary
On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Richard A. Francis wrote:
> > He tells me that it has written on the amp, "Webster Electric, Racine
> > WIS., 6122A 1A". It contains parallel PP 2A3's and two 6J5's or 56's.
> >
> > He needs to know what the bias is for the tubes, what speakers the amps
> > were designed for and if anyone may have a copy of the circuit diagram.
> > It appears as though there was a seperate preamp for these amps which
> > provided the HT, bias and signal.
>
> Harry, I've got a couple of similar Webster amps. Each of mine uses 4
> 2A3's, and 56's for drivers. They are made for a BALANCED input
> signal, though, so there is no phase splitter. The amps were designed to
> be used with a coil loudspeaker, and so he's free to choose his own OPT.
> :) I've got a schematic for it, and can send. BTW, there are a number of
> these floating around, so he could probably find a mate, or of course he
> could aim to set it up as a stereo amp, PP2A3. There is only ONE filament
> winding, as I recall, and that may be an impediment. OTOH, 2.5v 2.5A
> xformers are available from Hammond.
>
> Rick
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Richard A. Francis" <rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: Hammond Organ Amp, PPP 2A3's
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:11:43 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n469
> He tells me that it has written on the amp, "Webster Electric, Racine
> WIS., 6122A 1A". It contains parallel PP 2A3's and two 6J5's or 56's.
>
> He needs to know what the bias is for the tubes, what speakers the amps
> were designed for and if anyone may have a copy of the circuit diagram.
> It appears as though there was a seperate preamp for these amps which
> provided the HT, bias and signal.
Harry, I've got a couple of similar Webster amps. Each of mine uses 4
2A3's, and 56's for drivers. They are made for a BALANCED input
signal, though, so there is no phase splitter. The amps were designed to
be used with a coil loudspeaker, and so he's free to choose his own OPT.
:) I've got a schematic for it, and can send. BTW, there are a number of
these floating around, so he could probably find a mate, or of course he
could aim to set it up as a stereo amp, PP2A3. There is only ONE filament
winding, as I recall, and that may be an impediment. OTOH, 2.5v 2.5A
xformers are available from Hammond.
Rick
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re: Hammond Organ Amp, PPP 2A3's, Thanks
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:40:17 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n469
Hi all,
Thanks very much to all who responded. I really appreciate the help and so
does my friend.
I also second Thorsten's recent sentiments. You guys are great!! Even
though I'm usually just a lurker with little to contribute, you guys have
helped make this hobby a real pleasure.
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: ldmoore@lucent.com
Subject: Hammond organ parts
Date: 29 Sep 97 09:52:00 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n048
My brother picked up a coupled Hammond cabinets/amps this weekend at an
auction. Does anyone have an interest in these items?
Please reply to: ldmoore@lucent.com
TIA,
L.D. Moore
=========================================================================
From: Dan Kerl <dlkerl@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Hammond Organ question
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:17:59 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n534
Joseph Lowe wrote:
>
> I have located a Hammond C-3 that is priced cheap. What is the difference
> between the C-3 and the coveted B-3?
The style of the cabinet. The C-3 is in a "church" style cabinet with
closed sides and back. The B-3 appears as a "box" on four turned legs.
the "guts" of both organs (tone generator, preamp, manual chassis, pedal
switch, etc.) are interchangeable.
You shouldn't hear anymore difference between a B-3 and a C-3 than you
would hear between two different B-3s. They are identical internally.
You'll need a tone cabinet (amplifier and speakers) to go with it. Of
course, you'll probably want to find a Leslie 122 to go with it to get
The Sound. The quality of the Hammond instruments peaked in the mid
sixties.
For more info--
http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/
will tell you all you need to know, including instructions on joining
the Hammond organ technical email list.
- --
Dan Kerl
dlkerl@ro.com
=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: Hammond Organ question
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:21:09 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n534
I have located a Hammond C-3 that is priced cheap. What is the difference
between the C-3 and the coveted B-3?
Thanks,
Joe
=========================================================================
From: Whit Allsop <wallsop@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Hammond Organ question
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:13:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n534
Joseph,
Only the case, and about $3000 in resale value.
The C3 is mechanically and electrically identical to the B3.
Contact me privately if you want any more info, such as what
"cheap" is for a C3 etc...
Further reading at:
http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/index.html
... Whit
Joseph Lowe wrote:
>
> I have located a Hammond C-3 that is priced cheap. What is the difference
> between the C-3 and the coveted B-3?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
=========================================================================
From: spence barton <ence-ack@rio.com>
Subject: Re: Hammond Organ question
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:30:24 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n535
At 01:21 PM 12/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I have located a Hammond C-3 that is priced cheap. What is the difference
>between the C-3 and the coveted B-3?
The case. C-3's are a great bargain because they are EXACTLY the same as
B-3's but have the "church" case. The A-100 series is also a good bargain
because they are ALMOST exactly the same as B's, a lot heavier though. If
you need any help sourcing schematics or parts I can help.
spence
spence barton
ence-ack@rio.com
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Hammond Organ question
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:58:58 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n535
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:21:09 -0500 (EST), Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
wrote:
>What is the difference
>between the C-3 and the coveted B-3?
The only difference between the B3 and C3 is that the B3 has those
pretty spindly legs and the C3 cabinet is a full console. They are
electrically identical. And way cool.
Ever seen Paul Schaeffer on the David Letterman show? He plays a C3.
So, like, how cheap is it? Does it include a speaker of any sort?
Like, say, a Leslie 122?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Eric Weitzman <eweitzman@acm.org>
Subject: RE: Hammond Organ question
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:59:10 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n536
Dan Kerl wrote:
> Joseph Lowe wrote:
> > I have located a Hammond C-3 that is priced cheap. What is the difference
> > between the C-3 and the coveted B-3?
> <snip>
> You'll need a tone cabinet (amplifier and speakers) to go with it. Of
> course, you'll probably want to find a Leslie 122 to go with it to get
> The Sound. The quality of the Hammond instruments peaked in the mid
> sixties.
You might also want to try the PR-40 or QR-40 tone cabinets. I'm not
an organ player, but have heard that the "necklace reverb" in these
cabinets also had a "sound".
They make great biamp monoblocks, too. They contain three
6BQ5 PP power amps in them.
- - Eric
=========================================================================
From: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: Hammond power tranny
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:29:13 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n249
Hi All,
I was trying to find a power tranny suitable for a stereo 300B amplifier using
choke input power supply.
Hammond makes a model 282X, 500-0-500vct @ 200 ma that looks usable
even though I would like to have a little more max current capability.
My amp should require ~170 ma total B+ at around 425v.
Has anyone used this transformer before or have any other comments ?
Thanks in advance for any info,
- Ralph
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:27:48 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n249
RALPH POWER wrote:
> Hammond makes a model 282X, 500-0-500vct @ 200 ma that looks usable
> even though I would like to have a little more max current capability.
Ralph-
It should be capable of about 300mA with choke-input filter - is that
enough? :^) If you get the Hammond catalog (order from their web site;
free) they offer some ratings adjustments for different rectifier and
filter arrangements. It's a little hard to make sense of but accurate
eventually.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:40:40 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n249
Bob Chernofsky wrote:
> I was wondering how can this trany can provide 300mil? I thought
> Hammond gives a DC rating not an AC rating for current. I must have missed
> something. The 282x has a 5V at 3A and a 6.3 at 6A. If Ralph is not using
> them at there full rating, that might help a bit.
As near as I can tell, Hammond gives an RMS rating for the whole
secondary, but they label it "DC ma". The average current into a
resistor across the whole secondary would 0.9 of that. Using a full
wave CT arrangement doubles the current, except because each half is
on half time, off the other half, the RMS is reduced by sqrt(2). So
the full-wave CT rectifier into a resistive load is 0.9*2/sqrt(2) =
1.27 times the "rated" current. Using a capacitive input filter, the
peak current is higher for the same average so the average DC must be
reduced to keep heating under control, to 1.00 times the rated
current. This is confusing! The 1.00 factor is not one, but more like
half of two... Anyhow, with a choke input filter the winding current
stays pretty constant during the conduction half-cycle so the current
capability is 1.54 times the whole-secondary rated RMS current. All
these numbers come from the catalog; the interpretation is mine
however.
Net effect is, if they rate it for 200mA, you can get 200mA out of it
with a cap-in filter (at around 1.1 times the RMS voltage minus any
rectifier drop). Using a choke-in filter should give 308mA capability
(at 0.9 times the RMS voltage minus the rectifier drop).
Now if you turn the page, you see their plate transformers (the big
guys, no filament windings) are apparently rated for choke-input
filters, i.e. differently from the plate&filament units. You also see
that "intermittant commercial and amateur service" is rated at 1.5
times the current for "continuous commercial service". I interpret
this to mean that if you want to be conservative and get a long life
from you transformer, you should de-rate it to 2/3 of the spec!
Finally, those cute little power/bias units (the kind with only one
filament and no CT, for low-power applications, usually 120v
secondary; not in the "Classic" catalog) are rated for RMS secondary
current - you'll never get that much from them in DC, even with a
full-wave bridge and a choke input. All in all, somewhat confusing -
though to be fair, Hammond gives more information that you usually
see.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Bob Chernofsky <bobc@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:23:53 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n249
- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
To: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
RALPH POWER wrote:
> Hammond makes a model 282X, 500-0-500vct @ 200 ma that looks usable
> even though I would like to have a little more max current capability.
Ralph-
It should be capable of about 300mA with choke-input filter - is that
enough? :^) If you get the Hammond catalog (order from their web site;
free) they offer some ratings adjustments for different rectifier and
filter arrangements. It's a little hard to make sense of but accurate
eventually.
- -Paul Joppa
_____________________________________________________
Hi Paul;
I was wondering how can this trany can provide 300mil? I thought
Hammond gives a DC rating not an AC rating for current. I must have missed
something. The 282x has a 5V at 3A and a 6.3 at 6A. If Ralph is not using
them at there full rating, that might help a bit.
Bob
=========================================================================
From: Bob Chernofsky <bobc@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:16:54 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n249
- -----Original Message-----
Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
>To: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
>Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
>Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 2:44 PM
>Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
>
>
>RALPH POWER wrote:
>> Hammond makes a model 282X, 500-0-500vct @ 200 ma that looks usable
>> even though I would like to have a little more max current capability.
>
>Ralph-
>
>It should be capable of about 300mA with choke-input filter - is that
>enough? :^) If you get the Hammond catalog (order from their web site;
>free) they offer some ratings adjustments for different rectifier and
>filter arrangements. It's a little hard to make sense of but accurate
>eventually.
>
>-Paul Joppa
>_____________________________________________________
>
>Hi Paul;
>
>I was wondering how can this trany can provide 300mil? I thought
>Hammond gives a DC rating not an AC rating for current. I must have missed
>something. The 282x has a 5V at 3A and a 6.3 at 6A. If Ralph is not using
>them at their full rating, that might help a bit.
>
>Bob
>
=========================================================================
From: Ron Steinberg <ca789@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n250
Hi Ralph, I've been looking (not seriously yet) for a power tranny for a
similar purpose. You might want to try The Parts Connection, they've had
a custom tranny wound, 760VCT at 350mA, 6.3V at 7 Amps. Would this
provide you with enough current? I've been thinking of making the pp 6b4g
Loesch amp from SP, but didn't know if this was enough current.
Regards,
Ron
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, RALPH POWER wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I was trying to find a power tranny suitable for a stereo 300B amplifier using
> choke input power supply.
>
> Hammond makes a model 282X, 500-0-500vct @ 200 ma that looks usable
> even though I would like to have a little more max current capability.
>
> My amp should require ~170 ma total B+ at around 425v.
>
> Has anyone used this transformer before or have any other comments ?
>
> Thanks in advance for any info,
>
> - Ralph
>
>
======================================================================
Ron Steinberg Photographer <ca789@torfree.net>
Though self employed, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
======================================================================
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:48:39 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n250
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Ron Steinberg wrote:
> Hi Ralph, I've been looking (not seriously yet) for a power tranny for a
> similar purpose. You might want to try The Parts Connection, they've had
> a custom tranny wound, 760VCT at 350mA, 6.3V at 7 Amps. Would this
> provide you with enough current? I've been thinking of making the pp 6b4g
> Loesch amp from SP, but didn't know if this was enough current.
> Regards,
> Ron
>
Hey guys, those are nice specs, but what do they charge for that -- $60?
$70? Don't forget that there are lots of guys like me with more
transformers than we can use in a lifetime or three. If you want to save
money, post your needs and I'm sure someone would be happy to match you
up with something good for one-quarter or one-third of the Hammond price.
And if you pick up in Toledo, the deals get VERY good.
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: Hammond power tranny
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:17:25 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n251
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Paul Joppa wrote:
> filters, i.e. differently from the plate&filament units. You also see
> that "intermittant commercial and amateur service" is rated at 1.5
> times the current for "continuous commercial service". I interpret
> this to mean that if you want to be conservative and get a long life
> from you transformer, you should de-rate it to 2/3 of the spec!
This is probably a good idea because those modern Hammond power
transformers tend to run hot.
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Woodley <twoodley@freespace.net>
Subject: Hammond SE OTs
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:36:06 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n574
Hi again - I should mention another point about Hammond SE output
transformers.
The first versions of the 2K5, 5K0 and 6K5 SE OTs all weighed about 6 lbs,
while the 1K25 version weighed 11 pounds. From what I recall, the metal
used in these was not M6 and they did not use a very large air-gap,
claiming they got around this by using a special winding technique.
In the 6K5 unit, designed for the SV811 series of tubes I believe, was
quickly found not up to the task. So, they tried a number of different
core sized and windings, eventually ending up using the same 11 lb core as
the 1K25 unit. They then seem to have changed all the SE OTs to the 11 lb
core. Also, there was mention that they would use M6 metal in all units
but I don't know whether they do or not.
Bottom line, one should make sure which version of the Hammond OTs they
are thinking of purchasing. I think that AES bought a number of the
earlier smaller versions, so they still may have some of those stocked.
Best, Thom.
=========================================================================
From: Milton Martins <milton@naplesnet.com>
Subject: RE: Hammond SE OTs
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:59:11 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n575
This is What's in the "Angela" web site about Hammond Output Transformers:
Hammond Tube Output Transformers (Overview)
Please note, Hammonds specifications are at FULL OUTPUT power. Many "newbies" to the industry use fr
equency specification data at milliwatt ranges to inflate their claims. Check carefully when compari
ng manufacturers specs. Hammond uses -1dB roll off points to ensure a typical conservative rating at
full output power.
To ensure a long life and maximum versatility these units are built to and tested at a Hi-Pot rating
of 2,000 VAC!!!!
Hammonds transformers are of EI laminated design. Hammond does not offer toroidal designs due to the
ir inability to handle tube imbalance and high manufacturing costs.
Most importantly, Hammonds designs are "ear tested". After a new design has passed extensive testing
, it's got to sound good too, before Hammond will put it on the market! From Bach to rock & three wa
tts to 280 watts, Hammond has the output transformer for you.
Single Ended Tube Output Transformers
These high quality units are designed for maximum versatility. Designed for both triode or pentode o
peration-Class A operation. All units include an optional use-40creen tap (a proven pentode "swee
t spot") for "Ultra-Linear" operation. The ratings shown are at full power and rated plate current.
Rather than the typical single air gap, to eliminate core saturation, most models use the ingenious
HAMMOND "distributed air gap". This accounts for the units conservative ratings and manufacturing re
peatability, to ensure matched units.
Push Pull Tube Output Transformers
These high quality units are also designed for maximum versatility. All units include an optional us
e-40 air gap". This accounts for the units conservative ratings and manufacturing repeatability, to ensure matched units.
creen tap (a proven pentode "sweet spot") for "Ultra-Linear" operation. They are designed to
be used with most all power output tubes available today. The ratings shown are at full power and ra
ted plate current. Hammond has also recently added an epoxy potted series to their line for "the ult
imate in output
used in these was not M6 and they did not use a very large air-gap,
claiming they got around this by using a special winding technique.
In the 6K5 unit, designed for the SV811 series of tubes I believe, was
quickly found not up to the task. So, they tried a number of different
core sized and windings, eventually ending up using the same 11 lb core as
the 1K25 unit. They then seem to have changed all the SE OTs to the 11 lb
core. Also, there was mention that they would use M6 metal in all units
but I don't know whether they do or not.
Bottom line, one should make sure which version of the Hammond OTs they
are thinking of purchasing. I think that AES bought a number of the
earlier smaller versions, so they still may have some of those stocked.
Best, Thom.
=========================================================================
From: Milton Martins <milton@naplesnet.com>
Subject: Hammond transformers
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:55:47 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n574
Hi All,
I have used Hammond power transformers, chokes and fillament transformers in my 300B single ended a
nd I'm happy with these componnents for more than two years: No hum or vibration...
As for output transformers I have been trying (with no succes) to find someone with previous experie
nce.
I have posted several times in RAT but couldn't find a soul who used Hammonds for Output.
I feel that there is some sort of prejudice against Hammond here in the US. Maybe because is not exp
ensive like Tango, Tamura, Bartoluci or Magenquest. I am not sure.
I guess I will have to buy a pair to find out...
Milton Martins
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Woodley <twoodley@freespace.net>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:35:41 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n574
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Milton Martins wrote:
> As for output transformers I have been trying (with no succes) to find someone with previous exper
ience.
> I have posted several times in RAT but couldn't find a soul who used Hammonds for Output.
> I feel that there is some sort of prejudice against Hammond here in the US. Maybe because is not e
xpensive like Tango, Tamura, Bartoluci or Magenquest. I am not sure.
> I guess I will have to buy a pair to find out...
Milton - For what it's worth, I live about 45 minutes from Hammond here in
Ontario and had them specially make a pair of SE 6K5 OTs: M6 metal, Cardas
lead wire (I supplied) and weighed about 12 lbs. They were based on a
prototype of their 1629SE which is, I believe, slightly smaller (about 11
lbs) and may now also use M6 metal but don't quote me on this.
I still haven't completed the project they were intended for but, for fun,
tried them on my 2A3 amp in place of Magnequest DS025s. I wasn't
expecting much since their primary resistance was very high (approx. 475
ohms), which suggested lots of wire in there, and they dwarfed my little
2A3s. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised. They might have given me a
smidge less detail than the DS025s, but this smoothed the sound and, to me
in my system, was quite musical (perhaps moreso than the 025s even). What
was great, however, was improved bass response: more drive and control.
This might have resulted from higher inductance or primary impedance, but
I can't say for sure. Overall, I thought they sounded great for the
money.
Hope this helps. Best, Thom.
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:37:01 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n575
Thomas Woodley wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Milton Martins wrote:
>
> > As for output transformers I have been trying (with no succes) to find someone with previous exp
erience.
> > I have posted several times in RAT but couldn't find a soul who used Hammonds for Output.
> > I feel that there is some sort of prejudice against Hammond here in the US. Maybe because is not
expensive like Tango, Tamura, Bartoluci or Magenquest. I am not sure.
> > I guess I will have to buy a pair to find out...
>
> Milton - For what it's worth, I live about 45 minutes from Hammond here in
> Ontario and had them specially make a pair of SE 6K5 OTs: M6 metal, Cardas
> lead wire (I supplied) and weighed about 12 lbs. They were based on a
> prototype of their 1629SE which is, I believe, slightly smaller (about 11
> lbs) and may now also use M6 metal but don't quote me on this.
>
> I still haven't completed the project they were intended for but, for fun,
> tried them on my 2A3 amp in place of Magnequest DS025s. I wasn't
> expecting much since their primary resistance was very high (approx. 475
> ohms), which suggested lots of wire in there, and they dwarfed my little
> 2A3s. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised. They might have given me a
> smidge less detail than the DS025s, but this smoothed the sound and, to me
> in my system, was quite musical (perhaps moreso than the 025s even). What
> was great, however, was improved bass response: more drive and control.
> This might have resulted from higher inductance or primary impedance, but
> I can't say for sure. Overall, I thought they sounded great for the
> money.
>
> Hope this helps. Best, Thom.
I've used Hammond SE OTs on a few 45 amps. The older, 6lb 1628SE (5k
primary) was very good with 45s, but lacked bass on 2A3s, probably due
to core saturation. The newer, larger, 1628SE is very veiled with 45s
in comparison, the sound is very uninvolving. I haven't tried them with
a higher power triode yet, but I plan to use them initially in a low and
hot 845 amp that I hope to get working on 'real soon now' ;-)
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com --
http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:07:59 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n576
- ----------
> From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
> To: Thomas Woodley <twoodley@freespace.net>
> Cc: Milton Martins <milton@naplesnet.com>; sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
> Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 11:37 PM
Hi Roscoe,
>
> I've used Hammond SE OTs on a few 45 amps. The older, 6lb 1628SE (5k
> primary) was very good with 45s, but lacked bass on 2A3s, probably due
> to core saturation. The newer, larger, 1628SE is very veiled with 45s
> in comparison, the sound is very uninvolving. I haven't tried them with
> a higher power triode yet, but I plan to use them initially in a low and
> hot 845 amp that I hope to get working on 'real soon now' ;-)
Any idea what is the maximum rated current for this OPTX before saturation?
Would be nice if they are using M6 though.
Johari
> Peace
> --
> Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com --
> http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
>
> "Once in a while you get shown the light
> In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
>
> "640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:34:32 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n578
Johari Yip wrote:
> ...From: Roscoe Primrose ...
> >
> > I've used Hammond SE OTs on a few 45 amps. The older, 6lb 1628SE (5k
> > primary) was very good with 45s, but lacked bass on 2A3s, probably due
> > to core saturation. The newer, larger, 1628SE is very veiled with 45s
> > in comparison, the sound is very uninvolving. I haven't tried them with
> > a higher power triode yet, but I plan to use them initially in a low and
> > hot 845 amp that I hope to get working on 'real soon now' ;-)
>
> Any idea what is the maximum rated current for this OPTX before saturation?
> Would be nice if they are using M6 though.
I have a pair of these, for a planned high power project. They are
rated for 120mADC with 25 watts at 20Hz. The specs on the web indicate
they use M6 iron. I measured about 50 henries up to 100mA (the limit
of my setup) which is quite a bit of inductance - should be decent
bass. The primary self-resonance was low at around 500 Hz, indicating
a rather high capacitance which might hurt the high end, but I have
not made any real measurements of high-end performance yet.
They acheive this combination of high current and high inductance by
giving up some copper losses - I estimate around 3/4 of a dB (as
opposed to Magnequest's target of less than 0.3dB in their better
units).
I've heard two amps with Hammond transformers so far, one was quite
nice (2500 ohms, old 6-lb style, drivven by 1/2 5998) the other (11-lb
1250 ohm I think, two 6L6's in PSE) was terrible but not broken in -
it was the first time the unit was fired up. It got noticably better
after 30 minutes, and was continuing to sound better after 1-1.5 hours
when we turned it off. I have every reason to believe that it will
sound much better after 50-100 hours of burn-in. It's possible that a
45 at only 36mA will take forever to break in one of these monsters. I
just don't understand transformer break-in (any theories out there?)
but I hear it as a surprisingly strong effect - to me, it's as big or
bigger than SET NoFB versus PP FB pentodes.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:10:32 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n579
Johari,
Why not look at Electra-Print? I'm using the MT5KB model, rated at 5.4K
primary and will handle 160mA in the primary. It's 14 lbs. of art that is flat
from 18Hz to past 40kHz at 4 watts in my amp. They sound fantastic. Sure,
they are a bit more expensive than Hammond, but good iron is a lifetime
purchase.
Chris Beck
see my page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes
Go to the Links page for a link to Electra-Print's website.
Johari Yip wrote:
> ----------
> > From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
> > To: Johari Yip <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
> > Cc: roscoe@aiko.com; Sound List <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> > Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
> > Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 3:34 AM
>
> Hi Paul and all,
>
> After looking out for OPTX for use with my SV572 amps, Looks like I have
> very little option as far as using the OPTX at operating voltages of 750Vdc
> and above. Lundahl, One Electron don't recommend using their OPTX at that
> voltages and AN don't have a OPTX with 5K ohms impedance that handles 120mA
> other than the one for PSE operation rated at 240mA. Looks like the most,
> if not the only, logical choice is to use the "New and Improved" Hammond
> 1628SE OPTX.
> Thanks a lot, Paul for the added information wrt the Inductive/Capacitive
> nature of the Hammonds. I believe that given the price of the Hammond and
> all, I don't think it did too badly as compared to the MagneQuests (better
> units or not).
> >From what we can gather from Roscoe's post, IMHO, to really make the OPTX
> "sweat", operating at near full current capacity with lower voltage will
> maximize the burn-in ritual because it will sit correctly in the BH curve.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
>
> Cheers,
> Johari
> >
> > Johari Yip wrote:
> > > ...From: Roscoe Primrose ...
> > > >
> > > > I've used Hammond SE OTs on a few 45 amps. The older, 6lb 1628SE (5k
> > > > primary) was very good with 45s, but lacked bass on 2A3s, probably
> due
> > > > to core saturation. The newer, larger, 1628SE is very veiled with
> 45s
> > > > in comparison, the sound is very uninvolving. I haven't tried them
> with
> > > > a higher power triode yet, but I plan to use them initially in a low
> and
> > > > hot 845 amp that I hope to get working on 'real soon now' ;-)
> > >
> > > Any idea what is the maximum rated current for this OPTX before
> saturation?
> > > Would be nice if they are using M6 though.
> >
> > I have a pair of these, for a planned high power project. They are
> > rated for 120mADC with 25 watts at 20Hz. The specs on the web indicate
> > they use M6 iron. I measured about 50 henries up to 100mA (the limit
> > of my setup) which is quite a bit of inductance - should be decent
> > bass. The primary self-resonance was low at around 500 Hz, indicating
> > a rather high capacitance which might hurt the high end, but I have
> > not made any real measurements of high-end performance yet.
> >
> > They acheive this combination of high current and high inductance by
> > giving up some copper losses - I estimate around 3/4 of a dB (as
> > opposed to Magnequest's target of less than 0.3dB in their better
> > units).
> >
> > I've heard two amps with Hammond transformers so far, one was quite
> > nice (2500 ohms, old 6-lb style, drivven by 1/2 5998) the other (11-lb
> > 1250 ohm I think, two 6L6's in PSE) was terrible but not broken in -
> > it was the first time the unit was fired up. It got noticably better
> > after 30 minutes, and was continuing to sound better after 1-1.5 hours
> > when we turned it off. I have every reason to believe that it will
> > sound much better after 50-100 hours of burn-in. It's possible that a
> > 45 at only 36mA will take forever to break in one of these monsters. I
> > just don't understand transformer break-in (any theories out there?)
> > but I hear it as a surprisingly strong effect - to me, it's as big or
> > bigger than SET NoFB versus PP FB pentodes.
> >
> > -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:54:31 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n579
- ----------
> From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
> To: Johari Yip <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
> Cc: roscoe@aiko.com; Sound List <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
> Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 3:34 AM
Hi Paul and all,
After looking out for OPTX for use with my SV572 amps, Looks like I have
very little option as far as using the OPTX at operating voltages of 750Vdc
and above. Lundahl, One Electron don't recommend using their OPTX at that
voltages and AN don't have a OPTX with 5K ohms impedance that handles 120mA
other than the one for PSE operation rated at 240mA. Looks like the most,
if not the only, logical choice is to use the "New and Improved" Hammond
1628SE OPTX.
Thanks a lot, Paul for the added information wrt the Inductive/Capacitive
nature of the Hammonds. I believe that given the price of the Hammond and
all, I don't think it did too badly as compared to the MagneQuests (better
units or not).
From what we can gather from Roscoe's post, IMHO, to really make the OPTX
"sweat", operating at near full current capacity with lower voltage will
maximize the burn-in ritual because it will sit correctly in the BH curve.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
Cheers,
Johari
>
> Johari Yip wrote:
> > ...From: Roscoe Primrose ...
> > >
> > > I've used Hammond SE OTs on a few 45 amps. The older, 6lb 1628SE (5k
> > > primary) was very good with 45s, but lacked bass on 2A3s, probably
due
> > > to core saturation. The newer, larger, 1628SE is very veiled with
45s
> > > in comparison, the sound is very uninvolving. I haven't tried them
with
> > > a higher power triode yet, but I plan to use them initially in a low
and
> > > hot 845 amp that I hope to get working on 'real soon now' ;-)
> >
> > Any idea what is the maximum rated current for this OPTX before
saturation?
> > Would be nice if they are using M6 though.
>
> I have a pair of these, for a planned high power project. They are
> rated for 120mADC with 25 watts at 20Hz. The specs on the web indicate
> they use M6 iron. I measured about 50 henries up to 100mA (the limit
> of my setup) which is quite a bit of inductance - should be decent
> bass. The primary self-resonance was low at around 500 Hz, indicating
> a rather high capacitance which might hurt the high end, but I have
> not made any real measurements of high-end performance yet.
>
> They acheive this combination of high current and high inductance by
> giving up some copper losses - I estimate around 3/4 of a dB (as
> opposed to Magnequest's target of less than 0.3dB in their better
> units).
>
> I've heard two amps with Hammond transformers so far, one was quite
> nice (2500 ohms, old 6-lb style, drivven by 1/2 5998) the other (11-lb
> 1250 ohm I think, two 6L6's in PSE) was terrible but not broken in -
> it was the first time the unit was fired up. It got noticably better
> after 30 minutes, and was continuing to sound better after 1-1.5 hours
> when we turned it off. I have every reason to believe that it will
> sound much better after 50-100 hours of burn-in. It's possible that a
> 45 at only 36mA will take forever to break in one of these monsters. I
> just don't understand transformer break-in (any theories out there?)
> but I hear it as a surprisingly strong effect - to me, it's as big or
> bigger than SET NoFB versus PP FB pentodes.
>
> -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:41:13 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n579
- ----------
> From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
> To: Johari Yip <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
> Cc: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>; roscoe@aiko.com; Sound List
<sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
> Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 9:10 PM
Hi Chris, Paul, Roscoe and all,
Guess I missed out the ElectraPrint option. I have used the TM5KB for one
of my 2A3 SE Amp and I'm impressed with the performance of the OPTX. I do
agree with Chris wrt quality over the long-run.
On a different note, I've found a shop here that sell cast iron boxes for
industrial trunking installation and thought would work out fine for the
amp I'm building. They come in different sizes and that gives me options to
joint they to make a complete amp. I would most likely use one for the main
X-former, filter choke and caps another for the 3 tubes and one exclusively
for the OPTX. By drilling holes to enable wiring for the amp, it'll allow
your creativity to run wild depending on how the boxes are coupled
together. One very big advantage of such an arrangment is the virtual
elimination of heat problem associated with the SV572 tube. Being concealed
in the boxes, it provides excellent RF shielding too. Opinions, anyone?
Cheers,
Johari
>
> Johari,
>
> Why not look at Electra-Print? I'm using the MT5KB model, rated at 5.4K
> primary and will handle 160mA in the primary. It's 14 lbs. of art that
is flat
> from 18Hz to past 40kHz at 4 watts in my amp. They sound fantastic.
Sure,
> they are a bit more expensive than Hammond, but good iron is a lifetime
> purchase.
>
> Chris Beck
>
> see my page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes
>
> Go to the Links page for a link to Electra-Print's website.
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:29:30 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n580
Chris Beck wrote:
>
> Johari,
>
> Why not look at Electra-Print? I'm using the MT5KB model, rated at 5.4K
> primary and will handle 160mA in the primary. It's 14 lbs. of art that is flat
> from 18Hz to past 40kHz at 4 watts in my amp.
The Hammond, at 50 henries and used with a 2k plate impedance at
moderate signal levels, should be -1dB at 9 Hz....
OK, to be fair, most transformer specs are less than clear. To fairly
compare these units, we'd need to know primary inductance (at rated
current), resistance or resistive losses, and maximum signal level at
some low frequency with rated current. Hardly anybody specifies all
these things. I have measured some on my Hammonds, to augment the
specifications (though I haven't tried to confirm all the specs yet,
which I should do since transformer measurement is pretty spooky - my
measurements might differ from theirs quite a bit without there being
any "error", just different ways of measuring).
Even after making the basic measurements, there are many other details
which can be important to the sound, such as the design maximum flux
level, quality of iron, quality of insulation materials, and probably
a hundred others I know nothing of. So the measurements are not the
final answer by any means. But at least the basics will tell you
something! And with enough data, we might eventually correlate some of
it with audible results.
Chris, do you have suitable measurement gear and interest? I think
we'd all benefit from knowing more about available iron. And I don't
think (maybe I'm wrong) that any manufacturer would be offended; every
transformer sounds good to somebody in some application, and none of
us are measurement freaks anyway. I offer up the following data on the
Hammond, with a promise to fill in the blanks:
DC current (spec) 120mA
Max signal (spec) 500v (pk) at 20 Hz
(25 watts)
Primary inductance (measured, 12vRMS at 60 Hz) 56 henries at 80mA
Primary DC resistance (measured) 399 ohms
Secondary DC resistance (measured, 8 ohm winding) 0.68 ohms
Leakage inductance re: primary (measured) -tbd-
Capacitance re: primary (measured) -tbd-
Total mass (spec) 5 kg (11 lb)
I also volunteer to collect and present a summary of available data,
if others are interested. Does anybody else (besides Hammond and
Electra-Print) make iron like this? The 5kohm/150mA/1kVDC rating is
suitable for 845s and SV811/SV572 types and should be popular in some
sense. I see that Sowter lists two, including one specifically
designed for the SV572-10 in Class A2. Can't find any Magnequest in
the catalog I have. Any others?
> ... They sound fantastic. Sure,
> they are a bit more expensive than Hammond, but good iron is a lifetime
> purchase.
True enough. When I build my lifetime amp, I'll certainly look for
lifetime iron. Meanwhile, it's a lot of fun to experiment and the
cheap stuff allows more experimenting... :^)
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:13:48 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n580
Very Good points made, Paul. Unfortunately, I don't have the gear to take inductance
or leakage measurements on my iron. I may be able to get this info from Jack at E-P.
I'm not the consummate tweaker as so many on the list here are. Mostly because my
poor wife and dogs would disown me if I spent any more time building stuff. I tend
to do a whole lot of research upfront before deciding on a design to build. Then
once it's built, I stick with it, unless it stinks. The other fact is that I know
just enough about this stuff to be dangerous, but not enough to really go about
designing my own circuitry. I'm mostly a "cookbook" builder. I would probably do
well for myself to pick up some inexpensive OPT's to just use for "science project"
amps.
chris
Paul Joppa wrote:
> The Hammond, at 50 henries and used with a 2k plate impedance at
> moderate signal levels, should be -1dB at 9 Hz....
>
> OK, to be fair, most transformer specs are less than clear. To fairly
> compare these units, we'd need to know primary inductance (at rated
> current), resistance or resistive losses, and maximum signal level at
> some low frequency with rated current. Hardly anybody specifies all
> these things. I have measured some on my Hammonds, to augment the
> specifications (though I haven't tried to confirm all the specs yet,
> which I should do since transformer measurement is pretty spooky - my
> measurements might differ from theirs quite a bit without there being
> any "error", just different ways of measuring).
>
> Even after making the basic measurements, there are many other details
> which can be important to the sound, such as the design maximum flux
> level, quality of iron, quality of insulation materials, and probably
> a hundred others I know nothing of. So the measurements are not the
> final answer by any means. But at least the basics will tell you
> something! And with enough data, we might eventually correlate some of
> it with audible results.
>
> Chris, do you have suitable measurement gear and interest? I think
> we'd all benefit from knowing more about available iron. And I don't
> think (maybe I'm wrong) that any manufacturer would be offended; every
> transformer sounds good to somebody in some application, and none of
> us are measurement freaks anyway. I offer up the following data on the
> Hammond, with a promise to fill in the blanks:
>
> DC current (spec) 120mA
> Max signal (spec) 500v (pk) at 20 Hz
> (25 watts)
> Primary inductance (measured, 12vRMS at 60 Hz) 56 henries at 80mA
> Primary DC resistance (measured) 399 ohms
> Secondary DC resistance (measured, 8 ohm winding) 0.68 ohms
> Leakage inductance re: primary (measured) -tbd-
> Capacitance re: primary (measured) -tbd-
> Total mass (spec) 5 kg (11 lb)
>
> I also volunteer to collect and present a summary of available data,
> if others are interested. Does anybody else (besides Hammond and
> Electra-Print) make iron like this? The 5kohm/150mA/1kVDC rating is
> suitable for 845s and SV811/SV572 types and should be popular in some
> sense. I see that Sowter lists two, including one specifically
> designed for the SV572-10 in Class A2. Can't find any Magnequest in
> the catalog I have. Any others?
>
> > ... They sound fantastic. Sure,
> > they are a bit more expensive than Hammond, but good iron is a lifetime
> > purchase.
>
> True enough. When I build my lifetime amp, I'll certainly look for
> lifetime iron. Meanwhile, it's a lot of fun to experiment and the
> cheap stuff allows more experimenting... :^)
>
> -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:50:31 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n580
Chris, everyone,
I think Chris pretty much sums it up for most of us. Information
gathering>make the most logical decision from that info gathered > Actual
building and proactive changes if need be.
Johari
- ----------
> From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
> To: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
> Cc: Johari Yip <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>; roscoe@aiko.com; Sound List
<sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Subject: Re: Hammond transformers
> Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 9:13 AM
>
> Very Good points made, Paul. Unfortunately, I don't have the gear to
take inductance
> or leakage measurements on my iron. I may be able to get this info from
Jack at E-P.
>
> I'm not the consummate tweaker as so many on the list here are. Mostly
because my
> poor wife and dogs would disown me if I spent any more time building
stuff. I tend
> to do a whole lot of research upfront before deciding on a design to
build. Then
> once it's built, I stick with it, unless it stinks. The other fact is
that I know
> just enough about this stuff to be dangerous, but not enough to really go
about
> designing my own circuitry. I'm mostly a "cookbook" builder. I would
probably do
> well for myself to pick up some inexpensive OPT's to just use for
"science project"
> amps.
>
> chris
>
=========================================================================
From: "Anthony J. Knettel" <AKnettel@compuserve.com>
Subject: Handmade URL
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:50:02 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
per earlier request:
http://pw2.netcom.com/~handmade/first.html
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com>
Subject: handmade website?
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:48:15 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
what is the url for the handmade web site?
=========================================================================
From: "Markowitz, Gary" <MarkowitzG@nabisco.com>
Subject: RE: handmade website?
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:41:18 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
I found it at
http://pw2.netcom.com/~handmade/index.html
Regards,
Gary Markowitz
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------
"Into the keyboard, thru the processor, off the NIC, past the gateway,
nothing but Net"
=========================================================================
From: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: handmade website? -Reply
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:12:48 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
Handmade is at:
http://pw2.netcom.com/~handmade/first.html
=========================================================================
From: Mario Diaz <madiaz@gate.net>
Subject: Hang in there!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:11:16 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
I can't believe so many people are leaving this newsletter! There is a
simple solution to the problem.
1)Put boxing gloves on these jerks and stick them together in a ring,
2) use the DELETE key on any message you don't care to read.
Leaving the group is the dumb thing to do! HANG IN THERE!!!
=========================================================================
From: Plaato@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hang in there!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:43:33 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
In a message dated 10/28/97 6:37:28 PM, madiaz@gate.net (Mario Diaz) wrote:
<<Leaving the group is the dumb thing to do! HANG IN THERE!!!>>
Illigitimum Non Carborundum!!!!!!
Henry Platt
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Happy Birthday LP!
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 23:40:25 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n326
Hi All!
According to Mike Hobson of Classic Records, who presented at today's New
Jersey Audio Society meeting, today (June 28) marks the 50th Anniversary of
the introduction of the first LPs by Columbia Records.
So let's all say Happy Birthday to the LP!
Best,
Anna
p.s. News Flash: In conjunction with this, Classic has got the contract to
reissue some 40 great Columbia titles/artists in 1998-99!! More specifics
when I get them.
=========================================================================
From: DrorS@vcon.co.il (dror sofer)
Subject: Happy Hanuka and Xmass.
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:45:44 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n139
Hi everybody
Happy Hanukah and Xmas.
Dror
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Happy Holidays
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 09:32:28 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n145
Gang,
I hope eveyone has a Happy Holiday, sorry I have not cotributed much
lately. It is the time of CES and new products. After the new year may
time may be a little better.
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: "Gregory V. Tarsy" <gvt@susila.Eng.Sun.COM>
Subject: Happy Holidays to all
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:29:38 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n145
******** HAPPY HOLIDAYS *********
_...._
\ _ / .::o:::::.
(\o/) .:::'''':o:.
--- / \ --- :o:_ _:::
>*< `:}_>()<_{:'
>0<@< @ `'//\\'` @
>>>@<<* @ # // \\ # @
>@>*<0<<< __#_#____/'____'\____#_#_
>*>>@<<<@<< [_________________________]
>@>>0<<<*<<@< |=_- .-/\ /\ /\ /\--. =_-|
>*>>0<<@<<<@<<< |-_= | \ \\ \\ \\ \ |-_=-|
>@>>*<<@<>*<<0<*< |_=-=| / // // // / |_=-_|
\*/ >0>>*<<@<>0><<*<@<< |=_- |`-'`-'`-'`-' |=_=-|
__\\U//___ >*>>@><0<<*>>@><*<0<< | =_-| o o |_==_|
\\ | | \\| >@>>0<*<<0>>@<<0<<<*<@<|=_- | ! ( ! |=-_=|
\\| | _(UU)_ >((*))_>0><*<0><@<<<0<*<-,-=| ! ). ! |-_-=|
\ \| || / //||.*.*.*.|>>@<<*<<@>><0<<<((=_| ! __(:')__ ! |=_==|
\\_|_|&&_// ||*.*.*.*|_\\db//__ (\_/)-|/^\=^=^^=^=/^\| _=_|
"""|'.'.'.|~~|.*.*.*| ____|_ =('Y')=//,------------.
|'.'.'.| ^^^^^^|____|>>>>>>| ( ~~~ )/(((((((())))))))
~~~~~~~~ '""""`------' `w---w` `------------'
_ /| _^^_
\'o.o'( \
=(___)= ( )
c.." ..cc--"\_?
c./
I also am a new member here and a novice - so I much appreciate the
contributions of all.
Gregory
=========================================================================
From: slagle@dtlweb.com (Dave Slagle)
Subject: happy hour
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:20:34 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n109
nyc joes,
happy hour... 4-7
call 477-0375 to confirm
dave
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (Dave Slagle)
Subject: happy hour
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:42:39 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n199
hey all nyc joes...
anyone interested in happy hour this friday??? drop me a private note or
call me at 212 477 0375 if interested...
dave
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: happy hour.
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:44:42 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n201
I envy you guys (sometimes) in the NY area. Audio Happy Hour in my
remote neck of the Pacific Rainforest consists of me, the cats, the
dogs, a cold ale and the amp creations of Doc B and John Tucker.
The one and only "happy hour" for me with real live audio fans is
VSAC.
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
On 25 Feb 98 dave slagle said:
> happy hour is a go this friday at my loft, frank and bob already replied...
> drop me a private note, or call me at 212 477 0375 if interested.
>
> maybe we can knock off a group order for the AVVT tubes... bring your
> checkbooks!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: happy hour.
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:49:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n201
happy hour is a go this friday at my loft, frank and bob already replied...
drop me a private note, or call me at 212 477 0375 if interested.
maybe we can knock off a group order for the AVVT tubes... bring your
checkbooks!
Dave
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: happy hour.
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:47:03 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n201
Ken Dangerfield wrote:
>
> I envy you guys (sometimes) in the NY area. Audio Happy Hour in my
> remote neck of the Pacific Rainforest consists of me, the cats, the
> dogs, a cold ale and the amp creations of Doc B and John Tucker.
>
> The one and only "happy hour" for me with real live audio fans is
> VSAC.
>
> Regards,
> Ken Dangerfield
>
> On 25 Feb 98 dave slagle said:
>
> > happy hour is a go this friday at my loft, frank and bob already replied...
> > drop me a private note, or call me at 212 477 0375 if interested.
> >
> > maybe we can knock off a group order for the AVVT tubes... bring your
> > checkbooks!
> >
> > Dave
Ken,
You may need reminding just how good you've got it! You can look out the
window and see green trees and the blue water! OK. you have to listen to
the slugs f-----g from time to time. but you don't see grey walls and
down below,dumpsters in an alley. Maybe you're getting that sunshine
deficiency syndrome, whatever...a good friend of mine is moving Arizona
for just that reason...has it bad...I told him to take his own water
with him!
Just passing this along as you're one of my favorite people from VSAC
'97 ( Actually Pat was the one who kept pulling me back onto the
sidewalk after the group dinner.)but I enjoyed our conversation.
Regards,
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: happy hour (NYC)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:30:55 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n322
hey,
realize its short notice
Johannes is ill so it is moved to my place... (broadway and houston)
frank is the only confirmed...
give me a call 212 477 0375 for directions
dave
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <solvin-aurum@get2net.dk>
Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR !!
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:22:51 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n554
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Joelists.
A really happy new year to you all.
I belive the old one was a very good year indeed.
I met a lot of new friends on the net , and have had many enlightning
discussions with you nice people.
This was my first year on the list , and I have enjoyed it
very highly.
Thank´s a lot.
- - Sincerely Kurt Steffensen
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Happy new year everyone (and a horn)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:29:03 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n553
Ceci est un message multi-parties au format MIME.
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE34C9.EA295240
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear fellows,
1998 was a very good year (as could sing Frankie), and very productive for
the Joelist (IMHO).
I wish a very good year 1999 to Joe Roberts and to everyone on the list!
As a new year gift I send you in attachment (horn72.jpg = 22k) few pictures
of a beautiful exponential horn published in 1972 in the issue 229 (May
issue, page 286) of "La Revue du Son" (long time before it became "La
Nouvelle Revue du Son").
The horn called ACS was build by the french company AEREP. The exponential
horn load a Supravox 215RTF64 (the ElectroVoice LT8 could be used to). Its
height was 90 centimeters (36") and its width 60 centimeters (24 "). The
bandwith was 40 to 18000Hz +/- 2dB.
Happy new year!
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
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- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE34C9.EA295240--
=========================================================================
From: Richard Jones <rcjones@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:03:03 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n120
To all Audio Fanatics: :)
Just Saying Have a Happy Thanksgiving! and keep the audio ideas rolling..
Rich..
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@shwd.com>
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving Tubeheads!
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:57:59 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n504
I'm grateful for the cameraderie on this list, for the generosity with
which ideas are exchanged, and for the enjoyment this hobby (sorry, I
meant obsession) has brought me. Happy Thanksgiving, Joes!
(For the non-U.S. Joes, Thanksgiving is a holiday here wherein we
reenact the moment Alka-Seltzer was given to the white settlers by the
Indians.)
- -j
- --
=====================================
Jeremy Epstein .... jepstein@shwd.com
=====================================
=========================================================================
From: "Richard A. Francis" <rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Hardcore DIY: Building your own breeder reactor, Harper's
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:34:38 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n466
November issue of Harper's Magazine has a great article: "The Radioactive
Boy Scout: When a Teenager Attempts to Build a Breeder Reactor." It's a
true story. Detroit-area boy scout pursues the atomic energy badge on
route to becoming Eagle Scout. It is inspirational. Read the first page
or two at the drugstore counter, and see if you don't buy the issue.
Rick Francis, rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu
- -------------------------------------------------
Ratio of the number of "cigar references in Kenneth Starr's report to the
number of "Whitewater" references: 9:1
Fine that the report's Internet posting might have brought if 1996's
Communications Decency Act had become law: $250,000
Percentage of current members of Congress who voted for both the Comm.
Decency Act and the report's release: 72
(from Nov. 98 Harper's Index)
=========================================================================
From: "Richard A. Francis" <rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Hardcore DIY: Building your own breeder reactor, Harper's
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:31:23 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n466
November issue of Harper's Magazine has a great article: "The Radioactive
Boy Scout: When a Teenager Attempts to Build a Breeder Reactor." It's a
true story. Detroit-area boy scout pursues the atomic energy badge on
route to becoming Eagle Scout. It is inspirational. Read the first page
or two at the drugstore counter, and see if you don't buy the issue. But
I'll tell you that state and national agencies were ultimately involved.
Rick Francis, rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu
- -------------------------------------------------
Ratio of the number of "cigar references in Kenneth Starr's report to the
number of "Whitewater" references: 9:1
Fine that the report's Internet posting might have brought if 1996's
Communications Decency Act had become law: $250,000
Percentage of current members of Congress who voted for both the Comm.
Decency Act and the report's release: 72
(from Nov. 98 Harper's Index)
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Hardcore DIY: Building your own breeder reactor, Harper's
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:05:35 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n466
At 12:31 PM 10/24/98 -0400, Richard A. Francis wrote:
>
>November issue of Harper's Magazine has a great article: "The Radioactive
>Boy Scout: When a Teenager Attempts to Build a Breeder Reactor." It's a
>true story. Detroit-area boy scout pursues the atomic energy badge on
>route to becoming Eagle Scout. It is inspirational. Read the first page
>or two at the drugstore counter, and see if you don't buy the issue. But
>I'll tell you that state and national agencies were ultimately involved.
Wow, jsut when we start to despair about the condition of America's youth.
Ron
=========================================================================
From: cgooch@jarl.cs.uop.edu
Subject: Hard to find capacitor
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:14:43 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n463
I am having trouble finding a 30mf 450V electrolytic that is one inch in
diameter. All that I have found are ones that are 1 3/8 inches in diameter
and of a higher capacitance. I am about to call digikey but I doubt I will
have luck there. I have found a 33Mf metallized polyester cap that is only
.25 inched in diameter... should I be concerned about the smaller size? It
is a 630 volt cap.
Thanks.
Cary
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: Hard to find capacitor
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:23:14 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n463
cgooch@jarl.cs.uop.edu wrote:
>
> I am having trouble finding a 30mf 450V electrolytic that is one inch in
> diameter. All that I have found are ones that are 1 3/8 inches in diameter
> and of a higher capacitance. I am about to call digikey but I doubt I will
> have luck there. I have found a 33Mf metallized polyester cap that is only
> .25 inched in diameter... should I be concerned about the smaller size? It
> is a 630 volt cap.
> Thanks.
> Cary
What are you using it for? Where does your 1" size requirement come
from?
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com --
http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Hard to find capacitor
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:12:29 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n465
cgooch@jarl.cs.uop.edu wrote:
>
> I am having trouble finding a 30mf 450V electrolytic that is one inch in
> diameter. All that I have found are ones that are 1 3/8 inches in diameter
> and of a higher capacitance. I am about to call digikey but I doubt I will
> have luck there.
DigiKey carries Panasonic. The TSNH have seen good reviews here, but
the newer EB series are rated for more temperature/longer life/better
HF performance. 450v/33uF is available in either 16 or 18mm, your
choice.
> ... I have found a 33Mf metallized polyester cap that is only
> .25 inched in diameter... should I be concerned about the smaller size? It
> is a 630 volt cap.
Oh, I doubt it! Maybe .33uF, maybe 33nF, but not 33uF at that
diameter! I see the .edu in your email address and assume a student;
as you acquire experience in the world you will learn what is
reasonable to expect and what is too good to be true... :^)
Best wishes,
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: "Richard A. Francis" <rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: Hard to find capacitor -- get TSHA Panasonics from Digikey
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:23:58 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n463
On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 cgooch@jarl.cs.uop.edu wrote:
> I am having trouble finding a 30mf 450V electrolytic that is one inch in
> diameter. All that I have found are ones that are 1 3/8 inches in diameter
> and of a higher capacitance. I am about to call digikey but I doubt I will
> have luck there. I have found a 33Mf metallized polyester cap that is only
> .25 inched in diameter... should I be concerned about the smaller size? It
> is a 630 volt cap.
> Thanks.
> Cary
Are you sure you can't get what you want with two TSHA Miniaturized in
series? The Panasonics sold by Digi-Key are 400v max, and lowest
capacitance is something like 56 mfd, but diameter is 25mm (1") as I
recall. And they are stubby, so two in a row may fit easily...
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Richard Zaiff <zaiff@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Hard-To-Find Parts
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:45:17 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
Hi guys.
Where can I find a belt for an ARISTON RD11 Superior turntable?
Any assistance greatly appreciated.
Best.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Richard M. Zaiff
Office of Business Affairs
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
718.430.2851 fax 718.430.8822
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: Hard-To-Find Parts
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:23:24
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
A 09:45 AM 11/25/98 -0500, Richard Zaiff a écrit :
>Hi guys.
>
>Where can I find a belt for an ARISTON RD11 Superior turntable?
>
>Any assistance greatly appreciated.
>
>Best.
>
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Richard M. Zaiff
>Office of Business Affairs
>Albert Einstein College of Medicine
>718.430.2851 fax 718.430.8822
>
These people should have it:
http://www.cdrome.com/atelier1.htm
David
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@gte.net>
Subject: Harmonica Castellation - was Re: Atmasphere kits
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:28:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n223
Richard C Nevill wrote:
> > > I recall a SET using the 6C33 published by Erno Borbely using distortion
> > > cancellation. I have not built it, however, nor heard it, so cannot comment.
>
> Could you elaborate on this distortion cancellation. Or point us to the
> article. Is this a form of NFB, or am I (as usual) not even close.
In a cascaded pair of triodes - the even harmonic distortion products of the first
tube are 180 degrees out of phase with the distortions produced by the second tube.
These do cancel one another, more or less.
Fellow Floridian and all around good egg Reid Welch did an article for Glass Audio on
the subject - some controversy ensued around here and measurement showed no increase
in other, even uglier sounding harmonics. I believe VALVE published the test
results.
Historically HC was something that the really savvy tube-meisters knew about, and
occasionally planned and measured. What is different about the more recent use of
the principle, is that people are deliberately predistorting a driver tube to make
its distortion signature more closely match that of the output tube. This increased
distortion of the first stage produces lower overall distortion for the two stages.
No NFB, no BS.
Reid used a seriously overcooked 417A loaded by an interstage transformer to match
the distortion signature of a 300B output stage.
Pull out your scope, wave analyzer and have fun. Guaranteed to keep you off the
streets and out of trouble for a long while.
ROn
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: Harsh BGs?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:46:12 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n401
The Black Gates are installed. I bought the 100mF @ 160 V units called the
NH model I think.
They sound very good. The sound stage is the most improved. So much more
defined and believable. Bass is in a new league and musical tones seem to
be more in tune. My only gripe is that all this improvement came with a
bit of glare. The high freq. is a bit overbearing, which has left me in an
unhappy spot. I can't go back to the Nichicons, because I've now heard
that awesome imaging, but I crave that syrupy high end. So I must keep the
BG's and find another way to tame the high freq.
I was sent this note from a friend I coach in DIY. The BGs have been put in
as cathode bypass on a 300B, driven from a SRPP and powered from a tube PS.
Anyway, as I haven't any experience with BGs, I was hoping someone might
comment. As I see it, either the caps are not broken in yet, or the old caps
were covering over nasties that the BGs have revealed. Before exploring the
second possibility, I wanted the clear the first.
Regards, David
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Harsh BGs?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:24:09 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n401
They take a *long* time to break in, around 100 hours, and just idling the
amp doesn't do it. Also they sound weird and mechanical if the amp is left
off for a week or so ... they'll need several hours of playing to get going
again. I have no idea why this is so, maybe carbon fiber has strange
electro-chemical-thermal properties.
(Still recovering from VSAC ... and I was only reporting the news!)
Lynn T. Olson
Editor, Valve & Tube News
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Harsh BGs?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:42:52 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n401
>On the other hand, I have observed that different Black Gate values of
>the same cap type can sound quite different. Some have sounded warm and
>sweet, others a little bright. If your friend can not resolve his
>problems with the caps--even after an extensive break in period--he might
>try a different value cap.
>
>Fred Volz
Yes, this is true, especially for cathode bypasses. You can choose from the
low-ESR polarized F or FK series, the non-polar low-distortion N series, or
go crazy and try the paralleled "L-cancelling pair" BG likes to promote.
All sound quite different, with my current preferences leaning towards the
simple FK series.
Lynn T. Olson
Editor, Valve & Tube News
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
=========================================================================
From: Fred Volz <fcv@emotiveaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Harsh BGs?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:19:24 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n401
David Home wrote:
>
> The Black Gates are installed. I bought the 100mF @ 160 V units called the
> NH model I think.
> They sound very good. The sound stage is the most improved. So much more
> defined and believable. Bass is in a new league and musical tones seem to
> be more in tune. My only gripe is that all this improvement came with a
> bit of glare. The high freq. is a bit overbearing, which has left me in an
> unhappy spot. I can't go back to the Nichicons, because I've now heard
> that awesome imaging, but I crave that syrupy high end. So I must keep the
> BG's and find another way to tame the high freq.
>
> I was sent this note from a friend I coach in DIY. The BGs have been put in
> as cathode bypass on a 300B, driven from a SRPP and powered from a tube PS.
> Anyway, as I haven't any experience with BGs, I was hoping someone might
> comment. As I see it, either the caps are not broken in yet, or the old caps
> were covering over nasties that the BGs have revealed. Before exploring the
> second possibility, I wanted the clear the first.
>
> Regards, David
My guess is that the BGs may need more time to break in. When new, they
have a bit of a nasal glare/constipated quality. They begin to open up in
just a short time (about 15 min). But, they continue to get better
over a long time (24-48 hours). Although it can be difficult to resist
the temptation, one should not make any judgments about the sound of
Black Gate caps until they have burned for many hours.
On the other hand, I have observed that different Black Gate values of
the same cap type can sound quite different. Some have sounded warm and
sweet, others a little bright. If your friend can not resolve his
problems with the caps--even after an extensive break in period--he might
try a different value cap.
Fred Volz
=========================================================================
From: flegal@allaban.fr (Francois Yves Le Gal)
Subject: Re: Harsh BGs?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:25:47 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n401
At 12:46 25/08/98 -0700, David Home wrote:
>Anyway, as I haven't any experience with BGs, I was hoping someone might
>comment. As I see it, either the caps are not broken in yet, or the old caps
>were covering over nasties that the BGs have revealed.
Dunno if the second possibility is true, but BGs need a very long time to
stabilize and work their best. I've used some in PSU applications, and they
began to sing after maybe 200 or 300 hours.
Elna Cerafines and other "audio" caps didn't show the same traits.
OTH,
François Yves Le Gal flegal@allaban.fr
Chairman and CTO
Allaban WebSystems Tel : + 33(0)1 4601 9500
43, rue Raspail Fax : + 33 (0)1 4756 0305
F-92300 Levallois-Perret http://www.allaban.fr
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: Harsh BGs?
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:57:44 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n402
Give them time and let them play !
Guido
At 12:46 25-8-98 -0700, David Home wrote:
>The Black Gates are installed. I bought the 100mF @ 160 V units called the
>NH model I think.
>They sound very good. The sound stage is the most improved. So much more
>defined and believable. Bass is in a new league and musical tones seem to
>be more in tune. My only gripe is that all this improvement came with a
>bit of glare. The high freq. is a bit overbearing, which has left me in an
>unhappy spot. I can't go back to the Nichicons, because I've now heard
>that awesome imaging, but I crave that syrupy high end. So I must keep the
>BG's and find another way to tame the high freq.
>
> I was sent this note from a friend I coach in DIY. The BGs have been put in
>as cathode bypass on a 300B, driven from a SRPP and powered from a tube PS.
>Anyway, as I haven't any experience with BGs, I was hoping someone might
>comment. As I see it, either the caps are not broken in yet, or the old caps
>were covering over nasties that the BGs have revealed. Before exploring the
>second possibility, I wanted the clear the first.
>
>Regards, David
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Jeroen Euwe <jeroen.euwe@let.ruu.nl>
Subject: Hartley Boffle
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:26:23 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n129
Hi all,
Has anybody ever experiented with (or heard) the "Hartley Boffle"?
It is/was an open-back speaker where the back of the speaker was
loaded using regular spaced felt panels. The original used two
speakerunits, and had about seven felt panels inside the box, each
with two holes in them. The holes get progressively smaller until the
final panel which was just a piece of felt.
Big drawback of the design was the fact that it raised the driver's
resonant frequency two- or threefold.
However, for the use that I have in mind this is a great asset. I am
planning to make several mid/high speakers using Philips and Lowther
fullrange drivers. To cut down on IM distortion I want to use an
acoustical highpass x-over at somewhere between 70 and 150Hz. This
seems like a good idea, but I thought I'd ask you guys for advice.
TIA
Jeroen
Jeroen.Euwe@let.ruu.nl
PS: does anybody know why they called it a "boffle" instead of
"baffle"? I'm baffled.
=========================================================================
From: ceclark <ceclark@visuallink.com>
Subject: Harvey's speakers (Re: Triode Guild)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 98 22:20:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n467
Hi all!
Actually, the speaker Harvey poses with is a Tannoy Westminster Royal. He
has been using them for a couple of years, although he'll probably bag
them once he finds/builds cabinets for his Sunlight Engineering Alnico
drivers.
Best to All,
Chris Clark
=========================================================================
From: "Anthony J. Knettel" <AKnettel@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: has anyone built....
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:49:03 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n060
Thanks to everyone who responded on or off-list to my
inquiry about high current drivers. I've just about made
up my mind regarding the design I plan to use for my
next construction project, but have a final request for
comments about two designs I came across reading
through back issues of SP and VTV.
I am interested in feedback from JoeNetters who have
built either Gordon Rankin's "constant current output
stage direct coupled 45" amp in SP Volume2 Number1
or Eric Barbour's SV811-10 amp in VTV Issue 5. With
respect to the latter, I'm interested in comments about
the driver stage (6EM7/EA7/GL7) more than the 811-10
output stage: is this approach (using the dual triode's
high-mu half for the first stage and low-mu half for the
driver stage) a viable design approach to minimizing
tube count? Tradeoffs? Comparisons to SRPP and
tranny-coupling as alternate routes to low tube count?
Thanks in advance for any experiences folks are willing
to share.
Anthony (AKnettel@compuserve.com)
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (DOT)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: has anyone built....
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 15:11:10 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n061
>From: Anthony J. Knettel[SMTP:AKnettel@CompuServe.COM]
>Sent: Thursday, 9 October 1997 1:19 AM
>To: JoeNet
>Subject: has anyone built....
>
>.....I am interested in feedback from JoeNetters who have
>built either Gordon Rankin's "constant current output
>stage direct coupled 45" amp in SP Volume2 Number1
>or Eric Barbour's SV811-10 amp in VTV Issue 5. .....
I recall some old discussion on the sound of Gordon's CCOS 45 circuit,
mainly expressing disappointment. Of course the construction or
components may have contributed, but the discussion I recall was quite
certain that the circuit was responsible. Ah, here's some... (I hope
Gary and Larry forgive my forwarding parts of their private posts to me;
I made a personal judgement that the extracted parts below contain no
confidential info. Please let me know personally if this is
unacceptable.)....
- ----------
From: Johannes S. Chiu[SMTP:jschiu@ctr.columbia.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, 4 December 1996 5:05 AM
To: sound@mail.tpoint.net
Subject: Re: CCOS 45 amp (was: Shishido loftin/white amp)
Since Gordon brought the CCOS 45 amp to everybody's attention, I feel
I had to ask this, since it's been on my mind for a long time.
In small signal amplifiers, we all know that an un-bypassed cathode
resistor reduces the gain, which is also known in the transistor
language as emitter-degeneration. In the limit, the gain will then be
the ratio of the plate resistor over the cathode resistor. Now, if the
cathode is current source biased, it would mean that the effective
resistance is large, so the gain can be less than 1, which is why
no-one does it, except in diff amps, which is another story.
So, what happens when you bias the output stage with a CCS? Will the
gain be less than 1, if we have a perfect current source? I presume
since we are talking about large signals, the above doesn't quite
apply, and one has to go back to the curves and draw the appropriate
load lines. Gordon, can you explain how to go about this? Also, have
you measured the gain of the actual amp, and compared it with
self-biased
version (i.e. by-pass the current source with a cap)?
- --
Johannes S. Chiu
jschiu@ctr.columbia.edu
Columbia University
New York City
and...
- ----------
From: ldmoore@lucent.com[SMTP:ldmoore@lucent.com]
Sent: Saturday, 8 March 1997 2:01 AM
To: Sellek, Grant (DOT)
Subject: RE: CCOS 45 circuit
..... I'd say the issue with Gordon's CCOS 45 is that there isn't much
current running through the input stage. So, if you push it, you're in
trouble. You might have read my discussion of this. Run a bunch of
current in the input stage, this helps, to a certain extent, to minimize
the effect of drawing grid current in the output tube. Think of it as
the output stage modulating the operating point of the input stage. Not
too cool. If you're using inefficient speakers, you might wanna try
some other tube and/or combo.
and....
- ----------
From: FKQF17A@prodigy.com[SMTP:FKQF17A@prodigy.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 3 December 1996 9:30 AM
To: sound@mail.tpoint.net
Subject: Re: Shishido/Loftin White 2A3 amp
>Another example of this is my CCOS 45 Amp schematic in SP? It was in
the
>"Meet the Tube" section for the 45 tube.
>In general though direct coupling to me has too many disadvantages
>sonically and circuitly to make it a contender.
>Gordon
Interesting that you mentioned that amp. We had a nice version of the
CCOS 45, with Magna