Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 1
=========================================================================
From: David Home <tubehead@vcn.bc.ca>
Subject: OA2 question...
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n010
I have a cross-coupled differential pair phase splitter that I
would like to get a bigger voltage swing out of. The phase
splitter is regulated by a OA2 in shunt to ground. I wish to
raise the regulated voltage from the present 150V up to 250V.
Can I stack the OA2 on top of resistor that will drop the extra
100V at the current the OA2 is drawing? I have a nagging doubt
that this will not work. I should put it on top of a zener
diode or a OB3 in stead? The supply voltage is 310V and I know
I will have to change the value of the common dropping resitor
as well for this change.
Advise appreciated please. Regards, David
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: OA2 question...
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:21:20 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n010
David Home wrote:
>
> I have a cross-coupled differential pair phase splitter that I
> would like to get a bigger voltage swing out of. The phase
> splitter is regulated by a OA2 in shunt to ground. I wish to
> raise the regulated voltage from the present 150V up to 250V.
> Can I stack the OA2 on top of resistor that will drop the extra
> 100V at the current the OA2 is drawing? I have a nagging doubt
> that this will not work.
You are correct in being concerned. While it will "work", it will not
work properly as you will no longer have a regulated supply, so it would
not be the correct thing to do.
should put it on top of a zener
> diode or a OB3 in stead?
Offhand, I don't see any problem in stacking gas regulator tubes,
assuming they have the same current ratings which these units do. All
gas regulator tubes are not rated the same, so always check.
The supply voltage is 310V and I know
> I will have to change the value of the common dropping resitor
> as well for this change.
Yes, you would have to change the series resistor. And there are other
factors to consider. First the maximum starting voltages for the two
tubes totals to 315 volts, which exceeds the supply voltage, so you may
have arrange the circuit to start one tube in order for the other to
have a sufficient voltage to start. Perhaps the simplest way to
accomplish this would be to put a resistor across the 100 volt tube to
apply full supply voltage to the higher voltage tube for starting
purposes. The value should be high enough such that the current through
it is small compared to the tube bias current, say 1 ma, or 100k, 1/2
watt.
Now lets assume the design must work for a +/- 10 percent line voltage
variation. At low line voltage you would have only 0.9x310=279 volts
availble for starting. While typical starting voltages total 271 volts,
maximum values could go to as high as 315 volts, so it may, or may not
work, unless one tube is started first. Lets examine the case of
starting one tube first. Suppose the 150 volt tube fires, now at low
line voltage you have 279-150=129 volts to fire the 100 volt tube which
is close to its maximum firing voltage of 133 volts. Well, we didn't
quite make it for worst-case design, but this should be close enough for
a one-of-a-kind project.
Now lets calculate the required series resistance. Since you didn't
specify a load current I will make an assumption, say 20 ma. The
specified operating current for the regulator tubes is 5 to 30 ma, so
lets say we will run them at the average of the two extremes at normal
line voltage. This would be (5+30)/2=17.5ma. The current through the
series resistor would then be V/R = (310-250)/(17.5ma+20ma)=
(60/37.5)k=1.6k. Now at low line voltage the series resistor current
would be (279-250)/1.6k=18.125 ma, which is less than the load current,
so it would not remain in regulation at low line. If the actual load
current is less than the value assumed, you should rerun the numbers and
see if it works. Also, you may wish to choose a different specification
than -10 percent for low line and rerun the numbers. If you run through
the numbers for a -5 percent line voltage, you will find that for a 20
ma load, the R current is 27.8 ma, which leaves 7.8 through the tubes,
thus satisfying the minimum current of 5 ma.
At high line voltage (+10 percent) the voltage drop across the series
resistor would be 310*1.1-250=91 volts. The current through the series
resistor would be 91/1.6k=56.875 ma. of which 36.875 ma. would be
passing through the regulator tubes. So, in this hypothetical case, the
current through the regulators would be changing from cutoff at low line
to a value exceeding the maximum regulator tube current rating of 30 ma.
You can plug in the actual load current and come up with real world
figures.
What has been said here in a rambling, roundabout manner is that 310
volts is not a sufficiently high source voltage for a 250 volt regulator
using gas regulator tubes. You may not have a +/- 10 percent line
voltage variation, and you may choose to design to a looser spec, and
you may get away with it, but good design practice should allow for 10
percent, or more, line voltage variation. By following the above
procedure you should be able to work out a satisfactory design. With a
little massaging you can juggle the formulas and come up with a
simplified formula to go directly to the answer, but I wanted to lead
you through the reasoning process, hopefully, so you would understand
the principles involved and could design a circuit long after you have
forgotten or lost the design equations. It would be fairly simple to
arrange the simple equations to calculate the required supply voltage
directly by plugging in the tube specs, load and line voltage
variations. But, its time to quit, I gotta go to bed, I just ran out of
gas. Also, if a sufficiently high voltage is used to meet the other
requirement, there should be sufficient voltage to start both tubes in
series without having to start them sequentally.
Dan Marshall
>
> Advise appreciated please. Regards, David
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: OA2 question...
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:01:14 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n011
There is a neat trick to get two gas regulators in series to fire from a
lower supply voltage. I came across it in an old ham radio publication.
Hope this ASCII circuit comes out!
dropper resistor
---------
- ----| |-------------- + regulated supply
| --------- |
| |
--------| ---
| | | reg 1
- ---
| | |
about | | |--------
47 K | | | |
- --- |
| \ / |
| --- -
| | | |
----------| | | about
| | | 47 K
--- -
reg 2 | | |
--- |
| |
| |
grd grd
Simon
=========================================================================
From: match@ee.utah.edu
Subject: Re: OA2 question...
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:13:14 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n011
> The phase
> splitter is regulated by a OA2 in shunt to ground. I wish to
> raise the regulated voltage from the present 150V up to 250V.
> Can I stack the OA2 on top of resistor that will drop the extra
> 100V at the current the OA2 is drawing?
Yes you could, but regulation would suffer badly. It would work, but
begins to look more like a resistor than a regulator tube.
> I should put it on top of a zener
> diode or a OB3 in stead? The supply voltage is 310V and I know
> I will have to change the value of the common dropping resitor
> as well for this change.
A zener would work, and might be your only hope, being that you've
only got 310V to work with, and probably not alot of extra space for
another tube. I like the gas regulators better... lets see... a 0b2
and a 0a2 in series would give you 150 + 105 = 255V regulated, but
require 185 + 133 = 318V starting voltage. There's the rub... not
enough starting voltage. A 0b2 and a 0c2 would give you 150 + 75 =
225V and require 185 + 115 = 300V starting voltage so this would
work. An additional resistor ON TOP of the reg. tubes to get the
additional 25V and your in business. In fact, consider using a pot as
the series dropping resistor for the reg. tubes and take the output
from the pot slider. That way you can dial in any voltage from 225V
to 310V. It would be well regulated when set close to 225,
un-regulated when set close to 310, and fairly regulated when set
to 250.
Or, in the octal series: 0b3 and 0c3 would give you 90 + 150 = 240V
regulated and require 125 + 185 = 310V starting. This would work
mostly, but as the tubes age you might get into a state where the
tubes won't quite start, and if they don't start, you have no
regulation. This is the combination I'd use if it were my own amp,
with the pot or a voltage divider as a dropping resistor as above.
But I'd hand select tubes with low-ish starting voltages and keep a
spare set on hand in case they age upwards. If it were for someone
else, I'd stay well within the starting voltage limits, because if it
fails to start, the customer won't know what to do about it.
Calculate the dropping resistor to run current through the reg. tubes
near their max current (use 25ma. or so for the miniature series, or
35ma. or so for the octals) and you're done.
I Don't like to mix miniatures with octals. In other words use all
xx3 tubes or all xx2 tubes but not a xx2 with a xx3 as you suggested.
Got it? Real easy seat-of-the-pants engineering, just arithmetic,
ohms law and a tube manual.
Marv
match@ee.utah.edu
>
> Advise appreciated please. Regards, David
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: OA2 question...
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:14:21 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n011
match@ee.utah.edu wrote:
>
> Dan wrote:
> >
> > Offhand, I don't see any problem in stacking gas regulator tubes,
> > assuming they have the same current ratings which these units do.
>
> No, the 0A2 and 0B3 do not have the same current ratings. However
> stacking reg. tubes of the same series (xx2 miniature, or xx3 octal)
> is OK.
The tube specifications I made reference to were taken from a Sylvania
tube manual which shows the same min/max current ratings for the 0A2 and
the 0B3 (5 ma min and 30 ma max). I did not check any other manuals, so
perhaps there is a discrepancy between different manuals.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Re: OA2 question...
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 97 11:46:10 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n011
David,
Also another good idea (including Simons) is to place a cap accros the
dropping resistor. As the B+ comes up the cap shorts and this starts the
VR tubes better especially if they are in series.
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Peter van Willenswaard <willensw@worldaccess.nl>
Subject: obscure Siemens tubes
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:41:42 +-100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n086
I have a few relatively unknown Siemens tubes. That is, I know the specs of most of them, but I have
no idea about their prefered use:
C3m penthode 6.5 mA/V@16 mA u=19 Req 1200 ohms
C3g ? ? ? ?
D3a penthode 35 mA/V@22 mA u=80 Req 150 ohms
E2e tetrode 10.5 mA/V@42 mA u=22 ?
E282F penthode 26 mA/V@35 mA u=27 Req 200 ohms
Rather striking is the low to very low Req, especially for penthodes. Meant for use in mic amps, or
inside tube microphones even? Any idea what they were designed for?
Peter
=========================================================================
From: "Norman Tracy" <ntracy@galstar.com>
Subject: OC-9 vs. 103 was Re: Turntables - LONG
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:05:09 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n482
On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, David Home wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a cartridge and the lower priced OC-9 is now down
> competing with the Denon 103. Any thoughts please on how these cartridges
> compare sonically?
>
> Regards, David
I own both the DL103 and OC-9 so I will add my $0.02 worth, actually about
$600 worth if I recall my costs correctly! This is my second '103 and it is
the elliptical tip version. A conical tip 103 was my very first MC cart way
back when. As in lady's fashions I should of kept it not foreseeing the
retro-tech fascination with the conical tip version in some quarters! I use
them on a SOTA Star turntable with two different arms. Linear tracker is a
McIntire air bearing design made in tiny quantities by my friend Leo
McIntire. Acrylic base with carbon fiber arm tube and fixed headshell. Air
bearing design more like a Forsel than an ET. Second arm is the Luster 801.
Great example of the manufacturing arts from Japan. Stainless steel with
race bearings and spring applied dynamic tracking force. Detachable
headshell of which I have a collection. The 801 is currently mounted as it
is more teen age son friendly and my older boys are exploring my LP
collection. ("WHO LEFT THIS LP ON THE RECORD PLAYER WITH THE PLATTER
RUNNING!" dad roars. Looks like Not Me has been listening to the Stones
again.) Others carts in my past include the original AudioQuest AQ-404, AT
and Shure moving magnets. Rarest/strangest is the JVC with its moving coils
etched using IC technology and attached at the stylus end of the cantilever
(talk about groove Details-R-Us). Of these the OC-9 and '103 are my
workhorses. [I see I have gotten carried away in this paragraph. I am NOT
trying to establish my credentials like some hi-fi rag 'journalist'. Rather
take it as the fond romances of the analog era when this digital designer
came of age as an audio geek 1st class chasing the perfect analog front
end.]
Enough preface. I will cut to the chase which is my opinion is 180 degrees
out of phase with Richard Nevill's. That is I would say the AT OC-9 is the
more 'detailed' and extended of the two. It is the result of AT's long
efforts to reduce tip and moving mass and it shows in the sound and
tracking ability. The DL103 strength is the music seems to be 'whole' and
continuous. Top to bottom tweet to woof the '103 speaks with one voice. Its
highs are more subtle than the newer designs but it has 'something' special
that makes me understand why it is a cult classic. In a carefully tweaked
system the OC-9 will probably let you hear more of the last tiny bits of
information off the disk. I believe the DL103 is more forgiving of less
sophisticated arm/tables with their more active resonance signatures. This
may account for its lack of respect in some quarters, the subtle is lost on
the great unwashed masses you know. Yet one sees it proudly mounted on the
Ultra-fi tables in Japan and France. The '103 does seem to just get better
and better as I moved my two from Sony direct drive to SOTA/MMT to
SOTA/McIntire/801 front ends.
Between the two there is no 'best'. I would suggest the DL103 if you are
using a medium to high effective mass arm and enjoy a solid and full sound.
The OC-9 is more at home on a low to medium effective mass arms and
features a lighter more delicate rendition.
happy listening
Norman Tracy
Audio Crafters Guild
ntracy@galstar.com
http://galstar.com/~ntracy/ACG/
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris" <tmackris@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: OC-9 vs. 103 was Re: Turntables - LONG
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:58:35 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n483
Hi all,
On the subject of cartridges, Norman's description of the Denon makes it
sound as if it has a Grado flavor to it. Has anyone on the list had the
opportunity to audition the recently issued wood body Grados? Any
thoughts about the similarities / differences between the two?
It sounds as if both cartridges will work (mass-wise) on my Audiocraft,
uni-pivot arm. I'm really tiring of the rising top end on my Virtuoso
Boron MC. Every improvement in my system reduces its effect, but that
top end persists.
TIA,
Thom
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:05:09 -0600
From: "Norman Tracy" <ntracy@galstar.com>
Subject: OC-9 vs. 103 was Re: Turntables - LONG
On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, David Home wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a cartridge and the lower priced OC-9 is now
down
> competing with the Denon 103. Any thoughts please on how these
cartridges
> compare sonically?
>
> Regards, David
I own both the DL103 and OC-9 so I will add my $0.02 worth, actually
about
$600 worth if I recall my costs correctly! This is my second '103 and it
is
the elliptical tip version. A conical tip 103 was my very first MC cart
way
back when.
>> BIG SNIP <<
Between the two there is no 'best'. I would suggest the DL103 if you are
using a medium to high effective mass arm and enjoy a solid and full
sound.
The OC-9 is more at home on a low to medium effective mass arms and
features a lighter more delicate rendition.
happy listening
Norman Tracy
Audio Crafters Guild
ntracy@galstar.com
http://galstar.com/~ntracy/ACG/
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: OC-9 vs. 103 was Re: Turntables - LONG
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:00:45 -0400 (AST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n483
On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Norman Tracy wrote:
>
> Enough preface. I will cut to the chase which is my opinion is 180 degrees
> out of phase with Richard Nevill's. That is I would say the AT OC-9 is the
Norman et al,
I'm not at all suprised by this comment. As I said haven't compared them
back to back. But I had heard them in two different systems that I thought
were pretty close to each other. Hmmmm, much food for thought here. I see
I'll have to print this and take it to my friends houses to show them.
Thanks for pointing this out
Cheers
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: "dehls" <dehls@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: OC-9 vs. 103 was Re: Turntables - LONG
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:33:22 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n485
Hi All,
I've tried all three, the OC-9, the Grado Reference Platinum and the
conical Denon 103 in the ETII arm. I found the 103 to be the best by
far. Much more alive sounding, killer low end with great pitch
definition, balanced tonally, nice soundstage. The Grado is good, but
the highs sounded "electronic" by comparison and overall did not
sound as low in distortion or as linear top to bottom. I never could
get the OC-9 to flesh out in the bottom octaves. It sounded tipped-up
in favor of the highs and was not as listenable in long term sessions
because of that tipped-up tonal balance. Interestingly, the DL103
also tracks the best of the three even with an "older" stylus shape.
All, of course, IMHO.
I used the high mass magnesium arm tube for the 103, the low mass
aluminum arm tube for the Grado and tried both on the OC-9 with the
high mass the better of the two.
The rest of the system consists of: a Micro Sekei RDX 1500 'table, a
custom Quicksilver Phono Stage, Quicksilver Line Stage, custom
Quicksilver SE300B mono amps and JBL 4425's. The system is in a
finished basement, concrete walls with sheet rock attached and
concrete (carpeted) floor (low end is definitely _not_ a problem in
this room).
Hope this helps.
Take Care,
David
- ----------
> From: Thom Mackris <tmackris@earthlink.net>
> To: Joe_List <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Subject: Re: OC-9 vs. 103 was Re: Turntables - LONG
> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:58 PM
>
> Hi all,
>
> On the subject of cartridges, Norman's description of the Denon
makes it
> sound as if it has a Grado flavor to it. Has anyone on the list
had the
> opportunity to audition the recently issued wood body Grados? Any
> thoughts about the similarities / differences between the two?
>
> It sounds as if both cartridges will work (mass-wise) on my
Audiocraft,
> uni-pivot arm. I'm really tiring of the rising top end on my
Virtuoso
> Boron MC. Every improvement in my system reduces its effect, but
that
> top end persists.
>
> TIA,
> Thom
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:05:09 -0600
> From: "Norman Tracy" <ntracy@galstar.com>
> Subject: OC-9 vs. 103 was Re: Turntables - LONG
> On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, David Home wrote:
> >
> > I am in the market for a cartridge and the lower priced OC-9 is
now
> down
> > competing with the Denon 103. Any thoughts please on how these
> cartridges
> > compare sonically?
> >
> > Regards, David
>
> I own both the DL103 and OC-9 so I will add my $0.02 worth,
actually
> about
> $600 worth if I recall my costs correctly! This is my second '103
and it
> is
> the elliptical tip version. A conical tip 103 was my very first MC
cart
> way
> back when.
>
> >> BIG SNIP <<
>
> Between the two there is no 'best'. I would suggest the DL103 if
you are
> using a medium to high effective mass arm and enjoy a solid and
full
> sound.
> The OC-9 is more at home on a low to medium effective mass arms and
> features a lighter more delicate rendition.
> happy listening
> Norman Tracy
> Audio Crafters Guild
>
> ntracy@galstar.com
> http://galstar.com/~ntracy/ACG/
>
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <lowther@wxs.nl>
Subject: Oeps
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:23:03 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n451
Hi again,
I was trying to tell that I am not going to, but you sure know how to
motivate people!
Bert,
- ------
BD-Design -- Ontwikkeling en Distributie van geluidssytemen
E-mail: bd-design@vt52.com http://www.vt52.com/bd-design
Tel./Fax: (0341) 254500 Mobiel: (06) 51242990
Bert Doppenberg - Lowther Club Holland
E-mail: lowther@wxs.nl http://home.wxs.nl/~lowther/home.htm
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: offd topic: modems
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:25:14 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
My ISP (Mindspring) seems to have gotten really slow lately. Downloading
mail and waiting for web pages to load takes forever, and those cute little
lights on my taskbar are red more than green. I also have a slow modem
(14.4). Question is: if I spent half the cost of a WE300B on a new 56k
voice/data/fax modem, would I notice much improvement, or is the
cybersclerosis the limiting factor? JDM
=========================================================================
From: Edgar Faulkner <efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: Re: offd topic: modems
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:32:27 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n090
In many cases the higher speed modems are still limited by the connection
bandwidth from the ISP. My ISP is only using a 56K leased line and it
sucks, but it's the only game in town.
______________________________
Ed Faulkner \ through a child's eyes
Instructional Support Services \ sky is blue
Washington State University \ grass is green
Pullman, WA 99164 \ I want to see again
(509) 335-7566 \
efaulkne@wsu.edu. \_________________________________
On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
> My ISP (Mindspring) seems to have gotten really slow lately. Downloading
> mail and waiting for web pages to load takes forever, and those cute little
> lights on my taskbar are red more than green. I also have a slow modem
> (14.4). Question is: if I spent half the cost of a WE300B on a new 56k
> voice/data/fax modem, would I notice much improvement, or is the
> cybersclerosis the limiting factor? JDM
>
=========================================================================
From: David Bardes <David_Bardes@zd.com>
Subject: Re: offd topic: modems
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:24:57 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n091
Yes, yes, yes, check with your ISP. Your modem is not the only possible
bottleneck. Overworked servers and inadequate trunklines can put on the
breaks for internet access. PCM modems if supported by your ISP (check
which standard, x2 or flex, they support) and not hindered by bad line
quality or a line side concentrator will provide superior downstream
transfer rates. Don't expect to see a connection higher than 50kbps, look
for downstream speeds in the mid forties.
David
( I test modems for a living)
In many cases the higher speed modems are still limited by the connection
bandwidth from the ISP. My ISP is only using a 56K leased line and it
sucks, but it's the only game in town.
______________________________
Ed Faulkner \ through a child's eyes
Instructional Support Services \ sky is blue
Washington State University \ grass is green
Pullman, WA 99164 \ I want to see again
(509) 335-7566 \
efaulkne@wsu.edu. \_________________________________
On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
> My ISP (Mindspring) seems to have gotten really slow lately. Downloading
> mail and waiting for web pages to load takes forever, and those cute
little
> lights on my taskbar are red more than green. I also have a slow modem
> (14.4). Question is: if I spent half the cost of a WE300B on a new 56k
> voice/data/fax modem, would I notice much improvement, or is the
> cybersclerosis the limiting factor? JDM
>
=========================================================================
From: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: offd topic: modems - Reply
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:26:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n091
Hi Ed,
You said:
>My ISP is only using a 56K leased line and it sucks, but it's the only game in town.
We have a T1 connection (1.55 MB/sec) to the internet here at work and I find
that download delays are almost always the limitations of the serving computer
and not the communication link. It's practically as fast when I dial in from home
on my 28.8K modem !
I rarely get over 2-3k bytes/sec transfer rates from most website serving
computers and it is a real surprise when I do. I have gotten >50k/sec transfer rates
before, but it is quite rare. I think how busy the serving computer is at the
time is probably the greatest limitation of transfer speed.
So what this means is that you are usually not much better off with a faster
communication link, sadly.
Kinda like having a Ferrari that you can't rev over 2000 rpm.
- Ralph
=========================================================================
From: Edgar Faulkner <efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: Re: offd topic: modems - Reply
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:32:07 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n091
Here at work there are multiple T1s connecting the campus to the outside
world, gotta like that. But, many of the tech support sights I visit
are still limited by the bandwidth of the link or the server. With my ISP
I mainly telnet to my mail account, a very low bandwidth application, and
notice delays due to the bandwidth limitation during high traffic periods.
I did setup a dedicated 56KB link to one of our remote fascilities a
couple of years ago (ethernet at both ends) and the limitation for data
intensive applications was obvious at the time. Think of 10 people
downloading Netscape communicator at the same time :-) Personally I
download at work and take a Jaz cartrige home!
On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, RALPH POWER wrote:
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> You said:
>
> >My ISP is only using a 56K leased line and it sucks, but it's the only game in town.
>
> We have a T1 connection (1.55 MB/sec) to the internet here at work and I find
> that download delays are almost always the limitations of the serving computer
> and not the communication link. It's practically as fast when I dial in from home
> on my 28.8K modem !
>
> I rarely get over 2-3k bytes/sec transfer rates from most website serving
> computers and it is a real surprise when I do. I have gotten >50k/sec transfer rates
> before, but it is quite rare. I think how busy the serving computer is at the
> time is probably the greatest limitation of transfer speed.
>
> So what this means is that you are usually not much better off with a faster
> communication link, sadly.
>
> Kinda like having a Ferrari that you can't rev over 2000 rpm.
>
> - Ralph
>
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Offline for a while
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:46:25 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n400
Folks:
I will be offline for about a week while tending to things familial. I
will answer all emails as soon as I return. Cheers, and see you all on
the 31st.
S.G.
- --
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Now with Lemon Scented Borax!
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (DOT)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: Off, off, off, off-topic (but electrical)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:54:30 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n083
Summer's cummin to Adelaide, dum de dum dum, 87F today, 90+ tomorrow and
daylight saving, you beauty, dum de... oh SHIT I forgot the aircon's
busted since last summer.
Help! I have one of those roofmounted evaporative air conditioners with
ducts like the Worms of Dune wending about the ceiling cavity. It's 9
years old and works, but its speed controller don't. Flat out all the
time until the thermostat turns it off, then in the middle of the night,
kaWhoomp! and everyone leaps out of bed and naked into a 15-knot
hurricane in the Room of Peace and Quiet, as this big electric motor on
full power cranks up the centrifugal 800mm fan to the job of sucking air
through four square metres of wet straw; ah the wonders of high tech.
When it worked, we would turn the continuously variable speed controller
to minimum at night, and it would ease itself on and off with no more
drama than a lover blowing kisses on your cheek while you slept.
Any suggestion on how to fix it without buying a new on-board circuit
box, which $150 I could far more enthusiastically spend on output
trannies? I first thought it was a faulty pot behind the speed control
knob on the remote panel on our family room wall, but this proved to be
in perfect order. So up on the roof, pull off the straw pads and into
the on-board circuit box, which proved to be poorly sealed; not good
given the wet environment. From it I removed a rather sad, cobwebby and
corroded circuit board, the operation and function of which is beyond my
understanding. But I cleaned it up, tested its circuit continuity, and
checked its resistors and caps. Unfortunately all tested ok, so after
replacing the most dodgy looking bits I stuck it in the cupboard and
forgot about it until today. So I will stick it back in tomorrow, but
expect the problem to persist.
Any ideas, please? Is there a cheaper way to hook up a "speed
controller"?
Grant
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Off, off, off, off-topic (but electrical)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:33:34 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
Sellek, Grant (DOT) wrote:
>
(snip)
>
> Any ideas, please? Is there a cheaper way to hook up a "speed
> controller"?
>
> Grant
>
> Grant Sellek
> Adelaide, Australia
> grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
Grant:
I could be -really- wrong on this, but I suspect your speed controller
is nothing more than a high-power light dimmer, using a triac to control
the power to the motor. A triac is 2 SCR's hooked up in parallel
opposing, allowing the unit to work on AC. What it does is act as an
electronic switch. There are two power leads and a gate on the triac.
The power leads are hooked in series between the power source and the
load you want to control. The gate is hooked to a pot and a neon bulb or
diac. (A diac is 2 zener diodes hooked up in series opposing, again for
AC operation.) The pot samples the AC voltage coming in and sends some
of it to the neon bulb, which I'll use instead of a diac for the
purposes of this description. The neon bulb remains off until the
voltage across it reaches about 60V, then it fires and allows current to
flow through it into the gate of the triac. The triac turns on, allowing
current to flow into the load. As soon as the AC voltage falls across
the zero crossing point, that is swings from positive to negative or
vice-versa, the scr and the neon both cut off and wait for the voltage
to go 60V in the other direction. In this way, the triac stays off for a
certain amount of each half cycle, then turns on fully for the rest of
it. By turning the pot, you change how early in the cycle the neon
fires, and so you change the duty cycle of the triac and also the load.
Longer duty cycle = more power. This is the basis for pulse width
modulation.
The problem is triacs like to bite the dust without warning. When they
do, they usually short out. This makes the load run full tilt nipple all
the time. Soooo,
Look for a device that looks like a power transistor, or other heavy ss
power device. See if you can read a # off it, and order a replacement.
It may be the only bad part on the board. It should be a lot less that
$150, anyway, and so worth a try.
Hope this helps!
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: "Martin E. von Lindenberg" <mvon@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: Off, off, off, off-topic (but electrical)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:36:41 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
At 10:54 PM 10/24/97 +0930, Sellek, Grant (DOT) wrote:
>Summer's cummin to Adelaide, dum de dum dum, 87F today, 90+ tomorrow and
>daylight saving, you beauty, dum de... oh SHIT I forgot the aircon's
>busted since last summer.
>
>Help! I have one of those roofmounted evaporative air conditioners with
>ducts like the Worms of Dune wending about the ceiling cavity. It's 9
>years old and works, but its speed controller don't. Flat out all the
>time until the thermostat turns it off, then in the middle of the night,
>kaWhoomp! and everyone leaps out of bed and naked into a 15-knot
>hurricane in the Room of Peace and Quiet, as this big electric motor on
>full power cranks up the centrifugal 800mm fan to the job of sucking air
>through four square metres of wet straw; ah the wonders of high tech.
>When it worked, we would turn the continuously variable speed controller
>to minimum at night, and it would ease itself on and off with no more
>drama than a lover blowing kisses on your cheek while you slept.
>
>Any suggestion on how to fix it without buying a new on-board circuit
>box, which $150 I could far more enthusiastically spend on output
>trannies? I first thought it was a faulty pot behind the speed control
>knob on the remote panel on our family room wall, but this proved to be
>in perfect order. So up on the roof, pull off the straw pads and into
>the on-board circuit box, which proved to be poorly sealed; not good
>given the wet environment. From it I removed a rather sad, cobwebby and
>corroded circuit board, the operation and function of which is beyond my
>understanding. But I cleaned it up, tested its circuit continuity, and
>checked its resistors and caps. Unfortunately all tested ok, so after
>replacing the most dodgy looking bits I stuck it in the cupboard and
>forgot about it until today. So I will stick it back in tomorrow, but
>expect the problem to persist.
>
>Any ideas, please? Is there a cheaper way to hook up a "speed
>controller"?
>
>Grant
>
>Grant Sellek
>Adelaide, Australia
>grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
>
Grant,
Although I don't work on home units, let me make some suggestions based in
shipping container units.
1) Low speed on units by Carrier, Sabroe, Mitsubishi & ThermoKing all use
a separate relay. And yes, the contacts fail, even on these things that
use very expensive contactors. Check that not only the coil is energizing,
but that the contact itself is conducting. More interestingly, if your
unit uses a double throw relay to choose fan speed, I would count on it or
its driver circuit being bad.
2) High speed is always used when the ventilation is needed (which, for
my purpose, is when the cargo is fresh rather than frozen). Check to see
whether your system has a similar preference based upon air flow or
humidity, and make sure that you have not inadvertently mandated this
parameter.
Check the print for dumb repairmen like me. It will show you how the fan
speed is controlled, if you accept the "black box" electronics. In my
experience, the answer is something other than the board electronics most
of the time.
Good luck!
Martin
mvon@erols.com
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Off Sub: Help needed in UK to get Arbiter Drums
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 98 13:38:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n455
Gang,
As you know I am avid drummer for some time, anyway I need some help.
There are a new type of Drums called Arbiter that have a unique tuning
method. Anyway prices here are well let's just say I could buy a new ride
for the cost.
Anyway if someone knows someone at any of these Drum Shops in the UK that
carries them, I am looking for pricing on the following:
Jazz Four Set with a 12" snare instead of a 14".
Here are the UK shops that have these critters:
A1 Music Centre Manchester 0161 236 0340
Brass & Drums Eastbourne 01323 649754
Carlsboro Leicester 0116 262
4183
Carlsboro Nottingham 0115 958
1888
Carlsboro Sheffield 0114 264
0000
Cranes Musical Inst Cardiff 01222 398215
DrumWright Reading 0118 944
1418
Electro Music Doncaster 01302 369999
Honky Tonk Music Southend-on-Sea 01702 619615
Ray Kitchen Music Jersey 01534 70053
Matchetts Musical Belfast 01232 326695
Mister Music Glasgow 0141 429
6139
Music Centre Bedford 01234
346206
Musical Exchanges Birmingham 0121 236 7544
Music Maker Dublin 00 3531
6779004
Poole Percussion Poole 01202 763944
Professional Perc. London NW1 0171 485 4434
Rattle & Drum Derby 01332
360657
Rock Bottom Croydon 0181 680
8134
John Scheerer&sons Leeds 0113 244 9592
Sound Attak Colchester 01206 791371
Thanks Gordon
Sorry about the format got this off their website: www.demon.co.uk/arbiter
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Off subject:Clip art needed
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 10:37:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n194
Gang,
I am looking for a Yield sign in clip art if anyone has one would they
email me a copy. I have every other sign, no yield.
Thanks in advance!
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Johari Yip <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Off Topic
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:52:07 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n037
Hi everyone
I'll be in Minneapolis, Minnisota in Mid October for Company attachment
and is wondering if any of the list member is from there?
Regards,
Johari
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <70664.154@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Off Topic???
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:30:45 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n079
I have seen postings about turntable tweaks, and now SS amplification,
marked off with "Off-Topic." Is that so? I thought that the JoeNet was an online version of Sound Pr
actices; those subjects, while not
directly heated, would be found in those pages under the proper circumstances.
Is this list for music & tube audio only or do we have the same latitude as Joe does in his magazine
? I'm not being polemical here :
I was not around when this list was created so I don't really know the "rules," I'm just extrapolati
ng from the magazine (and its spirit!)
- -j
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@mail.gte.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic???
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:49:51 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n079
Jeremy Epstein wrote:
>
> I have seen postings about turntable tweaks, and now SS amplification,
> marked off with "Off-Topic." Is that so? I thought that the JoeNet was an online > version of Soun
d Practices; those subjects, while not
> directly heated, would be found in those pages under the proper circumstances.
> Is this list for music & tube audio only or do we have the same latitude as Joe does > in his maga
zine? I'm not being polemical here :
> I was not around when this list was created so I don't really know the "rules," I'm > just extrapo
lating from the magazine (and its spirit!)
> -j
I was starting to wonder about that myself - I mean not even the worst
topic-nazi would argue that threads about the use of constrained layer
damping for TT plinths is off-topic. Perhaps some of the recent
unpleasantness has left a few gentler souls gun shy.
Totally agree that this is not the antique-tube-list or anything that
limited.
As for the rules, those don't exist, except that this is a relatively
small world and everyone knows who stepped on it. Joe stated that he
didn't want any rules, he then muttered something about a buncha eighth
graders and how if their mommas couldn't teach 'em right what was he
supposed to do. Or words to that effect even if he didn't say anything
quite like that at all.
You can tell when something is off-topic when the number of posts that
declare it to be off-topic outnumber the posts concerning this
particular topic.
Ron
=========================================================================
From: "Conrad Drake" <conrad.drake@intellect.com.au>
Subject: Off topic - bye and thanks for the fish.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:49:02 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n423
This will be my last post in a little while as I am hanging out the shingle and setting up the compa
ny is taking all my time (anyone need an ASIC/Embedded comms engineer in mid/late '99? ;-)
Friday is my last day at this email address. (GMT+8) I will be contactable at "conrad.drake@ieee
.org" one way or the other (and on +61 40 747 1611) and will be back as soon as I can.
Thanks to all!
Yours,
Conrad Drake
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: OFF TOPIC - CAD support and sales
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:40:27 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n255
Hi all,
As the subject states this is off topic and then again perhaps not too
much.
I was looking for a cheap solution to making some technical drawings
as well as giving my oldest daughter an idea of technical drawing so I
poked around a bit on deja-news in the CAD section. A lot is going
over my head and most drawing packages which offer anything are quite
expensive.
Then I came across a mail from this chap Brad Winsor, who obviously
has a business consulting, teaching and selling CAD services and
products. He was offering some nice packages (last pieces and older
versions) at VERY reasonable conditions. The mailing was several
months old and when I contacted him they were gone. But he said he
had a version (fully packaged and legal copy) of an reputable package
which has been superceeded by a new version and which he is no longer
selling. He would send it to me for the cost of the postage. It has
been difficult to establish payment so I haven't paid him anything
yet, but here I am sitting in Brussels with the package in hand.
As you can gather (me living in Europe) I have no commercial
interrests in his business what so ever, but I am astounded over the
the friendliness and from what I can see real competence of Brad. I'd
like to suggests that if anybody is in need of CAD products or
services they should at least try to contact Brad. I can't of course
guaranty that he will have something as interesting for you as he had
for me. His e-mail is bwinsor@bellsouth.net and he is based in
Marietta, GA.
I hope I'm not offending anyone with this mail, but I'm still
astounded (in a most positive manner) by some of the people you can
meet on the net.
Greetings from Brussels
Robert
=========================================================================
From: cjg2@concentric.net
Subject: Off topic--calling EEs for physics extra credit!
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:41:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n483
Well the semester is coming to an end and I'm trying to rack up some extra
credit for my engineering physics class...if I can get three people from my
prospective field to respond to this question (below) I can get some freebie
points. Anybody who responds with a sentence or more gets a free gift
suitable for framing (just send your mailing address)!!!
Q: What aspects of physics are most important in your work? (Besides the
gravity needed to make morning coffee) Be as specific as you want!
Thanks guys!! (Guido already helped me out--what a pal!) --Chris
=========================================================================
From: "Mike Clapperton at S+N-PTN" <zasmiflb@ibmmail.com>
Subject: Off Topic: Car Audio - Help Please
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 10:19:10 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n053
My wife is a consultant and as such drives long distances between
industrial clients. I am looking for some advice regarding a
reasonably priced and good quality music (as opposed to noise) system
to install in her new car.
Ideally this will comprise:
CD Player (shuttle or single head unit)
FM Radio combined with the above
Amplifier
Speakers
Ideal budget is preferrably well under $1 000 US.
We don't have any tape cassettes or a tape recorder. I would include a
turntable, but the suspension would be too complex :)
I don't want such brands as "THUMP" amplifiers (actually seen in a
shop here in South Africa), and I don't need, nor have space for 18"
woofers. I will probably have to go with a "name brand" CD
player/radio, any ideas on which would be worthwhile choices for all
of the above. I looked inside a commercial car amp, and my opinion is
that the artwork and fancy case are the most expensive components. Any
ideas on DIY circuits for an amp (particularly power supply), and raw
drivers suitable for in-car use.
Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, please reply privately.
Thanks
Mike Clapperton
<zasmiflb@ibmmail.com>
As you get older, your broad mind and narrow waist
start to swap places.
=========================================================================
From: cuevassg@prtc.net (cuevassg)
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Car Audio - Help Please
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:51:38 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n053
Denon car amplifiers and head units work fine for me. Speakers: Boston
Acoustics.
You won't be disappointed!
- ----------
> From: Mike Clapperton at S+N-PTN <zasmiflb@ibmmail.com>
> To: analogue-addicts@eto.ericsson.se; bass@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu;
sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Off Topic: Car Audio - Help Please
> Date: Thursday, October 02, 1997 10:19 AM
>
>
> My wife is a consultant and as such drives long distances between
> industrial clients. I am looking for some advice regarding a
> reasonably priced and good quality music (as opposed to noise)
system
> to install in her new car.
>
> Ideally this will comprise:
> CD Player (shuttle or single head unit)
> FM Radio combined with the above
> Amplifier
> Speakers
>
> Ideal budget is preferrably well under $1 000 US.
>
> We don't have any tape cassettes or a tape recorder. I would include
a
> turntable, but the suspension would be too complex :)
>
> I don't want such brands as "THUMP" amplifiers (actually seen in a
> shop here in South Africa), and I don't need, nor have space for 18"
> woofers. I will probably have to go with a "name brand" CD
> player/radio, any ideas on which would be worthwhile choices for all
> of the above. I looked inside a commercial car amp, and my opinion
is
> that the artwork and fancy case are the most expensive components.
Any
> ideas on DIY circuits for an amp (particularly power supply), and
raw
> drivers suitable for in-car use.
>
> Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, please reply privately.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Clapperton
> <zasmiflb@ibmmail.com>
>
> As you get older, your broad mind and narrow waist
> start to swap places.
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Car Audio - Help Please
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 10:50:47 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n054
Mike Clapperton at S+N-PTN wrote:
>
> My wife is a consultant and as such drives long distances between
> industrial clients. I am looking for some advice regarding a
> reasonably priced and good quality music (as opposed to noise) system
> to install in her new car.
>
> Ideally this will comprise:
> CD Player (shuttle or single head unit)
> FM Radio combined with the above
> Amplifier
> Speakers
>
> Ideal budget is preferrably well under $1 000 US.
>
> We don't have any tape cassettes or a tape recorder. I would include a
> turntable, but the suspension would be too complex :)
>
> I don't want such brands as "THUMP" amplifiers (actually seen in a
> shop here in South Africa), and I don't need, nor have space for 18"
> woofers. I will probably have to go with a "name brand" CD
> player/radio, any ideas on which would be worthwhile choices for all
> of the above. I looked inside a commercial car amp, and my opinion is
> that the artwork and fancy case are the most expensive components. Any
> ideas on DIY circuits for an amp (particularly power supply), and raw
> drivers suitable for in-car use.
>
> Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, please reply privately.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Clapperton
> <zasmiflb@ibmmail.com>
>
> As you get older, your broad mind and narrow waist
> start to swap places.
Mike,
My kid just bought a new Saturn, then upgraded the sound system. Though
we did not comparison shop thoroughly, he ended up buying a Pioneer unit
with a trunk mounted 12 CD changer, FM/AM and tape player on sale for
$389, plus speakers. This unit has 35 watt/chnl (16 watt rms) amps.
The CD changer is well shock mounted, apparently better than most of the
competition. As I said, we did not do a great deal of comparison
shopping, but this unit seemed to offer a lot of bang for the buck.
They had other units, Sony, for example, and others, but the salesperson
felt that the Pioneer unit was better than anything else in this price
range. You might not want to take this as gospel, or as an unqualified
endorsement, but perhaps it would be a good reference point for
comparison in your shopping.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Car Audio - Help Please
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 12:24:11 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n054
Mike Clapperton at S+N-PTN wrote:
> My wife is a consultant and as such drives long distances between
> industrial clients. I am looking for some advice regarding a
> reasonably priced and good quality music (as opposed to noise) system
> to install in her new car.
>
> Ideally this will comprise:
> CD Player (shuttle or single head unit)
> FM Radio combined with the above
> Amplifier
> Speakers
>
>
Mike:I used to be very much into mobile audio, so maybe I can help. You did not
say what kind of car, so I can only give broad suggestions as to speakers. I
would suggest that most of the money (up to half) be spent on the speakers. I
would suggest a good separates set for the front, consisting of say, a 5.25
inch or 6.5 inch midbass/midrange driver and a 1" dome tweeter on each side,
preferably mounted in the kick panels, not the doors. Use the doors if the kick
panels are not usuable, but be sure to use one of the several brands of
dampening material that apply to the sheet metal to stop it ringing. Speakers
could be Sony, high end Pioneer, or better yet, MB Quart. Use an amp with a
built-in biamp crossover (Pioneer makes several suitable units) and run the
2-ways from about 100Hz up, and for the bass try a pair of JL Audio 8" model
8W1 woofers in 0.25 cu ft sealed cabinets, in the trunk. The cabinets are not
large, but must be built out of at least 3/4 inch MDF with glue and screws, and
it must be airtight! 1 inch would be better. The drivers, amp, an in-dash cd
player (Sony) and installation should be less than a grand. Use a good
installer with good references!!!!!
Even with a relatively inexpensive system like this, it is not unusual to find
a fairly flat response from 40-20,000Hz, with a maximum SPL of about 110dB,
loud enough for most people. Just don't skimp on the speakers, and you'll be
fine.
Hope this helps!
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Car Audio - Help Please
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 23:57:53 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n054
At 10:19 02/10/97 EDT, you wrote:
>
> My wife is a consultant and as such drives long distances between
> industrial clients. I am looking for some advice regarding a
> reasonably priced and good quality music (as opposed to noise) system
> to install in her new car.
>
> Ideally this will comprise:
> CD Player (shuttle or single head unit)
> FM Radio combined with the above
> Amplifier
> Speakers
>
> Ideal budget is preferrably well under $1 000 US.
>
I've had both Sony (my last car) and now have Kenwood head unit and
cd-changer.
I can't say that I think a top of the line model sounds so much better than
a more modest one. I only have a head unit and no extra amps or
subwoofers, but I did invest in some rather expensive FOCAL speakers, which
I'm quite happy with.
So I'd say get a mid-range Sony combo and splash a bit more on the speakers.
Greetings from Brussels
Robert Jorgensen
Robert.Jorgensen@advalvas.be
=========================================================================
From: Guido Tent <gtent@ehv.sc.philips.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Car Audio - Help Please
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:42:24 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n055
Mike,
I have always been very happy with Clarion (and they use Philips audio power
ICs too, but this is not the reason)
Regarding your turntable: I drive a Citroen, with hydro-pneumatic
suspension, if you buy one it might work....
Go for paper cones, full range, maybe two small tweeters in the dashboard
Guido
At 10:19 2-10-97 EDT, Mike Clapperton at S+N-PTN wrote:
>
> My wife is a consultant and as such drives long distances between
> industrial clients. I am looking for some advice regarding a
> reasonably priced and good quality music (as opposed to noise) system
> to install in her new car.
>
> Ideally this will comprise:
> CD Player (shuttle or single head unit)
> FM Radio combined with the above
> Amplifier
> Speakers
>
> Ideal budget is preferrably well under $1 000 US.
>
> We don't have any tape cassettes or a tape recorder. I would include a
> turntable, but the suspension would be too complex :)
>
> I don't want such brands as "THUMP" amplifiers (actually seen in a
> shop here in South Africa), and I don't need, nor have space for 18"
> woofers. I will probably have to go with a "name brand" CD
> player/radio, any ideas on which would be worthwhile choices for all
> of the above. I looked inside a commercial car amp, and my opinion is
> that the artwork and fancy case are the most expensive components. Any
> ideas on DIY circuits for an amp (particularly power supply), and raw
> drivers suitable for in-car use.
>
> Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, please reply privately.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Clapperton
> <zasmiflb@ibmmail.com>
>
> As you get older, your broad mind and narrow waist
> start to swap places.
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Mike Clapperton at S+N-PTN" <zasmiflb@ibmmail.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Car Audio - Thanks
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 15:00:58 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n059
I apologise for taking up more bandwidth with this, but for all those
who responded to my request for help, thanks a lot. I now have to try
and correlate all the information, sift out the most recommended
components, and try to find these components and listen.
I also have to find a knowledgable dealer (this might not be easy). We
(wife and I) walked into a shop on the weekend and I asked if any of
the CD players had digital outputs. Looking at the expression of the
salesman (salesboy?) change from dropped jaw to glazed eyes to panic,
it was all we could do to stop laughing. This IS going to be fun!!!
Sorry for the diversion, Thanks once again.
Mike Clapperton
<zasmiflb@ibmmail.com>
As you get older, your broad mind and
narrow waist start to swap places.
=========================================================================
From: Peter Allen <ptrallen@emu.melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Car Audio : The Tube Renaissance
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:00:28 +1000 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n054
At 10:19 AM 02-10-97 EDT, Mike Clapperton wrote:
>
> My wife is a consultant and as such drives long distances between
> industrial clients. I am looking for some advice regarding a
> reasonably priced and good quality music (as opposed to noise) system
> to install in her new car.
The disadvantages of youth.
Does nobody here remember tubed car audio???
My uncle's 1940's Chevrolet had a car radio that warmed up.
What are you all waiting for?
- -peter, who is Chronologically Advantaged and so can remember when they
brought in transistors that came on immediately so they had to be better,
didn't they? Then they brought in CDs and they were more convenient so they
had to be better by the same definition and then convenience food but this
is not the place for such discussion...
_____________________________________________________________
Peter Allen ptrallen@melbpc.org.au ( 8*{)
Editor, Melbourne Audio Club http://www.vicnet.net.au/~macinc
ask for a free e-copy of our magazine FAX +61 3 9431-2044
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic - Computer Memory
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 07:39:54 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n083
Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
wrote:
>
> Yo,
>
> > I want to upgrade my machine to 64K of RAM
>
> Yo dude, whatch gonna run on 64k? Pac-Man?
>
> Later Thorsten.
I know Steve menat 64M, but just to remind people how sad windoze is, I
used to have a Commodore 64 which did have 64k of ram. Another fellow
and I co-wrote a program for it that would design 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th
order speaker crossovers for up to 4 drivers, including discrete
resistor L-pads to compensate for driver efficiencies and impedances,
and then the program would draw a multicolor graph of the responses of
the individual passbands along with phase shift information. The program
would prompt the user for all the pertinent info and then do the number
crunching in about 3-4 seconds.
How big would a win95 program to do this be?
S.G.
Incidentally, in the 5 years I owned my C64, it NEVER crashed.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Off Topic - Computer Memory
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:51:08 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n083
Yo,
> I want to upgrade my machine to 64K of RAM
Yo dude, whatch gonna run on 64k? Pac-Man?
Later Thorsten.
=========================================================================
From: <ccrayc@uxmail.ust.hk>
Subject: Off-topic: constrained layer damping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:11:20 +0800 (HKT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
Joenetters,
I'd like to tryout building isolation platforms for my tube amplifier,
anyone tryout stuffs with 'Constrained Layer Damping' technology ?
Any comment on the sonic signature ? Any pointers to how can one DIY such
a structure ?
I'm thinking about two layer of real wood (4mm each) to do the constrained
layering.
Appreciate!
Raymond
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Off-topic: constrained layer damping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:57:11 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n072
Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
wrote:
(snip)
>
> May I humbly suggest the Following:
>
> One layer of Aluminum (1mm)or thin Glass
>
> bonded with contact adheasive to
>
> one layer of HDF (Hardboard)
>
> bonded with contact adheasive to
>
> one layer of Chipboard (5mm)
>
> bonded with contact adheasive to
>
> one layer of very hard foam (like the antistatic stuff for IC's)
>
> bonded with contact adheasive to
>
> one layer of Chipboard (5mm)
>
> bonded with contact adheasive to
>
> one layer of HDF (Hardboard)
>
> bonded with contact adheasive to
>
> one layer of Aluminum (1mm)or thin Glass
(snip)
I think the idea here is to mate materials of vastly varying densities
and thicknesses. I was taught that when sound (mechanical vibration) has
to go through interfaces between materials of different densities, each
interface loses some energy. Something about mismatched impedances.
Cheers!
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Off-topic: constrained layer damping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:07:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n072
Assuming I understand the phrase; I build my enclosures with 30# roofing
felt sandwiched between two layers of marine plywood to make them 'dead'.
For a tube amp base, non hardening silicone caulk smeared about 1/8" thick
between three or four boards should work. I don't see how this could effect
'sonic
signature' to any audible extent though.
GM
- -----Original Message-----
From: ccrayc@uxmail.ust.hk <ccrayc@uxmail.ust.hk>
To: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Friday, October 17, 1997 4:16 AM
Subject: Off-topic: constrained layer damping
>Joenetters,
>
>I'd like to tryout building isolation platforms for my tube amplifier,
>anyone tryout stuffs with 'Constrained Layer Damping' technology ?
>Any comment on the sonic signature ? Any pointers to how can one DIY such
>a structure ?
>
>I'm thinking about two layer of real wood (4mm each) to do the constrained
>layering.
>
>Appreciate!
>Raymond
>
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Re: Off-topic: constrained layer damping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:08 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n072
Hi Valveheads,
> I'd like to tryout building isolation platforms for my tube amplifier,
> anyone tryout stuffs with 'Constrained Layer Damping' technology ?
May I humbly suggest the Following:
One layer of Aluminum (1mm)or thin Glass
bonded with contact adheasive to
one layer of HDF (Hardboard)
bonded with contact adheasive to
one layer of Chipboard (5mm)
bonded with contact adheasive to
one layer of very hard foam (like the antistatic stuff for IC's)
bonded with contact adheasive to
one layer of Chipboard (5mm)
bonded with contact adheasive to
one layer of HDF (Hardboard)
bonded with contact adheasive to
one layer of Aluminum (1mm)or thin Glass
Place your Amp on Cones, on top of this Platform and then
put either large-bubble Bubble-wrap or a Bicicle inner tube
undernaeth to gain maximum isolation.
Soemthing even wackier could use this Platform again on cones
onto a thick Glass-plate which sits on a Bicycle Tube or
Bubblewrap. The options are quite a few.
I myself use a slighlty altered version of the recipie quoted
above under my CD-Player. In more senes than one, I used what
I had lying about and follwed that recipie as close as I could
for no money at all :-).
Later Thorsten
> Any comment on the sonic signature ? Any pointers to how can one DIY such
> a structure ?
>
> I'm thinking about two layer of real wood (4mm each) to do the constrained
> layering.
>
> Appreciate!
> Raymond
=========================================================================
From: Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
Subject: Re: Off-topic: constrained layer damping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:43:27 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n072
Thorsten,
I take it that your recipe sounds better than plain MDF, any ideas
why ?
What contact adhesive did you use ?
I've tried the bicycle inner tube under my Rock it definitely
improved the sound and so I will be adding
another over the weekend, as well as under the amps.
- --
Pete Drake
peterd@ndsuk.com
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Re(2): Off-topic: constrained layer damping
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:54:48 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n072
Yo,
> I take it that your recipe sounds better than plain MDF, any ideas
> why ?
Better management of air-born and equipment generated microvibration
I'd guess. Due to the various different layers, no specific "sonic
signature" can develop.
> What contact adhesive did you use ?
What I had at hand - UHU All purpose. Brand is not critical, but
complete coverage as well as the force exerted when assembing is.
> I've tried the bicycle inner tube under my Rock it definitely
> improved the sound and so I will be adding
> another over the weekend, as well as under the amps.
Yup works marvels for (almost) a nickel doesn't it?
Later Thorsten.
=========================================================================
From: Peter Allen <ptrallen@emu.melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Re: Off-topic: constrained layer damping
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 11:33:23 +1000 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n073
>>Joenetters,
>
>>I'm thinking about two layer of real wood (4mm each) to do the constrained
>>layering.
>
...or something light between two sheets of Formica. Pattern to taste.
(I made a tomearm boear that way. No scientific tests, however.)
- -peter
_____________________________________________________________
Peter Allen ptrallen@melbpc.org.au ( 8*{)
Editor, Melbourne Audio Club http://www.vicnet.net.au/~macinc
ask for a free e-copy of our magazine FAX +61 3 9431-2044
=========================================================================
From: "Conrad Drake" <conrad.drake@intellect.com.au>
Subject: Off topic- Cyrus 2
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:11:30 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n296
I've been offered a "Cyrus 2" integrated (mit mm/mc phonostages) amp for not a lot of money. Howe
ver the flip side is that the vendor doesn't know wattage or architecture (ie SE A, PP A, or AB)
Would anyone care to comment (other than it's a sand amp and therefore to be cursed to damnation :-)
CD
=========================================================================
From: "Martin E. von Lindenberg" <mvon@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic- Cyrus 2
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:06:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n297
At 09:11 AM 5/30/98 +0800, you wrote:
>I've been offered a "Cyrus 2" integrated (mit mm/mc phonostages) amp for
not a lot of money. However the flip side is that the vendor doesn't know
wattage or architecture (ie SE A, PP A, or AB)
>
>Would anyone care to comment (other than it's a sand amp and therefore to
be cursed to damnation :-)
>
>CD
>
>
Seeing as I have one in the family room --
It's 60 WPC class AB, unless the seperate power supply is included, in
which case you can really work the output devices. But even naked, it is
of the high current design philosopy, and theoretically suitable for low
impedence loads -- which, considering the odd load impedances of Mission
loudspeakers (the parent company), is expected.
I like the sound, but then I have no golden ears. Powering VMPS Minitower
II speakers, others that claim superior auditory status claim (or feign)
acceptance.
MM noise levels could be better, MM acceptable.
Parts are expensive, but obtainable. A plastic piece for the mechanical
portion of the on off switch cost me about $25 from the North American
importer in Canada.
The bottom line -- how much?? You won't confuse it with one on Nelson
Pass's designs, but as small ugly ducklings go, (and it is ugly), it ain't
bad.
Martin
mvon@erols.com
=========================================================================
From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
Subject: off-topic, dBm/Hz
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:48:55 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n070
i know this is a touch off topic, but i can't seem to find the answer
around here.
i've got an HP spectrum analyzer that spits out a measurement for noise in
terms of "dBm/Hz". trying to determine exactly what this measurement is,
and more precisely, how to use this information to extrapolate dBv of
signal for a particular frequency band.
anyone know this, be willing (offline) to 'splain it to me?
thanks-
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Off-Topic - delete flame wars (for Andre, Frank and Gary)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:11:38 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n045
Hi all,
> I'm a big boy and I can take it.
So are most of us Gary. I think we sorta had a similar discusiion
when I dropped of the Bass list.
(Note to all - I would have mailed Gary privatly, but I'm sitting
here on a fairly cumbersome UK NHS internal e-mail system. Also,
I do not know how the Listserver does it's processing, but it
almost all post clicking "Reply to All" brings only the Joe-List
address up - apologies for the waste of Bandwidth - humor me)
I can yake it too. Even the often un-necessarily rude language.
But quite frankly I am much happier with a happy and nice list
where pleasant conversations are going on while we are all gaining
in knowledge. And I learned a lot on the Bass-List and I learned a
lot on my first time around on the Joe List.
Many individuals from both lists (and I MUST mention the Analog
Addicts for helpfull people - I'm chuffed) have unselfishly invested
their time and sometimes money - even it was "only" for stamps in
order to help me. I'm trying to give some that back (in little bits
here and there), but I think I will be allways a Debtor there.
> To Frank, I'd like to say:
>
> Grow up and get over it.
Yup. I think a bit cooling down would be on order. Specifically Frank
IF YOU DON'T mind, sometimes your application of the english language
leave a lot to be desired. You are a very inteligent and knowledgable
Individual. You are much better than that.
> To Andre, I'd like to say:
>
<SNIP SNIP>
> The worst thing you can do to Frank is ignore him.
Exactly.
> Again, go ahead and flame away. I can take it.
By all means, please flame. But I for myself (and I'm sure one or two
other listmebers as well) would appreciate, if flames could be kept
private. You want to insult someone. Bad style but - go ahed. just
keep it of the list please.
It would be a crying shame if such stuff makes one of the best Tube
Audio Resources in the World un-endurable for some individuals.
Maybe someone out there has experience in using the List with the
Net-Tel Route 400 (X-400 Mailer)? Drop me a line if you do.
ThanX.
I apologise again for washing my dirty laundry in public.
Thorsten
=========================================================================
From: Holger Stein <STEINMUSIC@compuserve.com>
Subject: OFF Topic:Experience with bestwebservices?
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:41:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n034
Hallo,
I just saw the announcment of bestwebservices under
http://www.bestwebservices.com, and think about to make the deal.
Does anybody of you have any experience with them, especially concerning
velocity?
Thanks
Holger Stein
STEIN HIFI SYSTEMS
Scharpenberg 64a
D- 45468 Mülheim
Germany
Fon ++49 208 32089
Fax ++49 208 390938
GSM ++49 172 2143196
STEINMUSIC@Compuserve.com
Worldwide distribution for Ennemoser's C37 Lack
.. and much more.
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: off topic: Guggenheim moto show
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:33:00 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n367
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDBB8C.4748A280
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone in NYC or near enough who is in any way into mechanical =
engineering and design should really ta take some time to see the Art of =
the Motorcycle show at the Guggeneheim. The sheer amount of creative =
technical energy and design genius on display is fantastic. They've =
pretty much got a very good representation of the history (maybe 200 =
bikes -- too many name to mention) and nobody's faves will be the same, =
but for me the MV Agusta 1956 500 GP bike was it. Hard to believe it is =
42 years old, perfect, perfect. However nearly every one of the bikes =
there was a masterpiece of one kind or other. You can get right up to =
the bikes, they aren't roped off so you can pretty much see every detail =
which is nice as they are raised too. A really fun and well put together =
exhibit. I won't argue about whether it's art or not, but what about a =
historical retrospective on sound reproduction?, I'm sure we'd all dig =
that too!
- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDBB8C.4748A280
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Anyone in NYC or near enough who is =
in any way=20
into mechanical engineering and design should really ta take some time =
to see=20
the Art of the Motorcycle show at the Guggeneheim. The sheer amount of =
creative=20
technical energy and design genius on display is fantastic. They've =
pretty much=20
got a very good representation of the history (maybe 200 bikes -- too =
many name=20
to mention) and nobody's faves will be the same, but for me the MV =
Agusta 1956=20
500 GP bike was it. Hard to believe it is 42 years old, perfect, =
perfect.=20
However nearly every one of the bikes there was a masterpiece of one =
kind or=20
other. You can get right up to the bikes, they aren't roped off so you =
can=20
pretty much see every detail which is nice as they are raised too. A =
really fun=20
and well put together exhibit. I won't argue about whether it's art or =
not, but=20
what about a historical retrospective on sound reproduction?, I'm sure =
we'd all=20
dig that too!</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDBB8C.4748A280--
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: off topic: Guggenheim moto show
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:15:07 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n367
On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Mark Donen wrote:
> Anyone in NYC or near enough who is in any way into
> mechanical engineering and design should really ta take
> some time to see the Art of the Motorcycle show at the
> Guggeneheim.
Saw similar (in spirit) show on the Art of the Automobile in
Montreal 2 years ago. Absolutely fascinating.
> I won't argue about whether it's art or not, but what
> about a historical retrospective on sound reproduction?,
> I'm sure we'd all dig that too!
I am sure we would but I do not know how much of the public
could relate to it.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: bart <bartonw@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RE: off topic: Guggenheim moto show
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:31:57 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n368
>
Art of the Motorcycle show at the Guggeneheim.
>
Yup, I second that, for sure!
Caught the show on a rare and brief visit to NYC recently.
The Captain America replica (the original was stolen) brought tears to my eyes - must be lost youth.
Bart
=========================================================================
From: "Conrad Drake" <conrad.drake@intellect.com.au>
Subject: Re: RE: off topic: Guggenheim moto show
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:07:36 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n369
So,
is the Britten as awe inspiring in the flesh as in the media?
CD
- --
Conrad Drake conrad.drake@intellect.com.au
Intellect Australia, 7 Turner Avenue, Bentley WA 6102
Australia (ph) +61 8 9472 2222 (fx) +61 8 9470 1532
Intellect who? Visit us at http://www.intellect.com.au
>>> bart <bartonw@ozemail.com.au> 07/31 8:31 am >>>
>>Art of the Motorcycle show at the Guggeneheim.
>
>Yup, I second that, for sure!
>
>Caught the show on a rare and brief visit to NYC recently.
>
>The Captain America replica (the original was stolen) brought tears to my eyes - must be lost youth
.
>
>Bart
=========================================================================
From: bart <bartonw@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RE: RE: off topic: Guggenheim moto show
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:57:13 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n369
Just about everything was awe inspiring. The quality and workmanship in any period was just beautifu
l.
It all had a tremendous emotional impact just like any great work of art.
One of the nicest was a little 50cc racing bike which was like a Swiss watch.
Can't remember all the details now.
Bart
- ----------
From: Conrad Drake[SMTP:conrad.drake@intellect.com.au]
Sent: Friday, 31 July 1998 15:07
To: sound@deliverator.io.com; bartonw@ozemail.com.au; bart.shepherd@ttm.com.sg; soledadd@worldnet.a
tt.net
Subject: Re: RE: off topic: Guggenheim moto show
So,
is the Britten as awe inspiring in the flesh as in the media?
CD
- --
Conrad Drake conrad.drake@intellect.com.au
Intellect Australia, 7 Turner Avenue, Bentley WA 6102
Australia (ph) +61 8 9472 2222 (fx) +61 8 9470 1532
Intellect who? Visit us at http://www.intellect.com.au
>>> bart <bartonw@ozemail.com.au> 07/31 8:31 am >>>
>>Art of the Motorcycle show at the Guggeneheim.
>
>Yup, I second that, for sure!
>
>Caught the show on a rare and brief visit to NYC recently.
>
>The Captain America replica (the original was stolen) brought tears to my eyes - must be lost youth
.
>
>Bart
=========================================================================
From: Carter Hendricks <carterh@crl.com>
Subject: RE: RE: off topic: Guggenheim moto show
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:41:35 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n371
At 06:57 PM 7/31/98 +1000, bart wrote:
>
>It all had a tremendous emotional impact just like any great work of art.
>
>One of the nicest was a little 50cc racing bike which was like a Swiss watch.
>
I worked with Doug Stanton at Hill & Vaughn and he raced
a 50cc grand prix bike with some Italian friends from FIAT NA.
They'd melt down old warranty-reject parts from the Alfa Romeo
dumpster to sand-cast new design cylinder heads. They built a
little high speed dyno. They'd run around Riverside. Single file.
A quarter mile apart. Performance art.
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Off Topic-Hit Delete Button
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:35:08 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n043
Hi everyone,
Well I'm coming up on the one year mark as a subscriber. Someone's
comment about splitting the list made me think about finding another
solution, but without success.
Sometimes I'm busy and just want to empty the old mail box and scan for
gems of new info. If I have the time,I'll read (almost)everything.
Other times I have passed along humor, garbage, etc., and read the same
from others. Due to the international (and intranational)nature of the
list, I sometimes have the urge to drift off topic (without getting into
politics of religion).
So, if it's not a serious question or contribution, perhaps it should
fall under a heading as in the subject header above. Or would such a
heading grow larger than the current list?
I don't want to subscribe to a second list.
FWIW, my vote will go to the "Hit delete button" party.
If I may, one other thought...I hate those damned ASCII circuits.
Is bandwidth really a problem? Is there a survey of ISP costs on the
international level?
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: BART <bartonw@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RE: Off Topic-Hit Delete Button
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:06:08 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n043
>
I hate those damned ASCII circuits.
Is bandwidth really a problem? Is there a survey of ISP costs on the
international level?
>
Hi Joe,
It's not the costs, its the time.
Here in Australia everything runs slowly as there is congestion in the international links.
If we had dozens of mails with large files e.g. pictures attached, downloading would take forever.
I like everything the way it is. I say delete button is adequate.
Cheers,
Bart
=========================================================================
From: Peter Sikking <peter.sikking@amc.de>
Subject: Off Topic: How's this for `Home' Theater...
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:24:33 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n106
Hi Joesters,
picture this:
Take an average size 14th century european cathedral, and suspend a
normal size cinema screen under the historic, 16Hz to flutones, organ.
Ask the guy who's going to play the organ to bring his synths and
samplers, and also two friends who play violin amd tabla to help him
out in certain parts. Reinforce the sound of everything but the organ
through four speakers in the corners of the audience area, using some
simple r-l-f-b techniques. Seats for the audience are already
conveniently in place. Now, select a silent movie by a famous director,
make sure that the musicians can see the the screen (video circuit
helps), start the projector and enjoy the (original?) soundtrack.
That's exactly what happened here in Ulm last fryday night. A couple
of students had organized it and it was a great experience. The film was
by Fritz Lang and had the usual slow editing and overacting of that era,
although some of the `special effects' would not have looked stupid if
they had been produced 40 years later.
But talk about the sound! The organ was majestic, and helped by the
natural reverb, the amplified instruments blended in quite well.
That giant gong sample sounded very believable when played.
And of course no one was yapping in the movie so the music came first.
The event was a one-off and luckely for the students the audience
turn-out was so overwhelming that the start of the film had to be
delayed to get everybody seated before the lights were turned off.
This delay caused that when a clock on the screen showed nine o'clock,
the bells of the cathedral also chimed nine, for a bonus effect...
--Peter
music lover, ultra-fi builder, GUI designer & developer, on drums...
@Ulm.Germany telephone: +49 731 505 1679 facsimile: +49 731 505 1808
=========================================================================
From: Edgar Faulkner <efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: off topic, humor
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
The Heavy Thinker It started out innocently enough. I began to think at
parties now and then to loosen up. Inevitably though, one thought led to
another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker. I began to think
alone - "to relax," I told myself - but I knew it wasn't true. Thinking
became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the
time. I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment
don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself. I began to avoid friends at
lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and Kafka. I would return to the office
dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"
Things weren't going so great at home either. One evening I had turned
off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that
night at her mother's. I soon had a reputation as a heavy thinker. One
day the boss called me in. He said, "Skippy, I like you, and it hurts me
to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't
stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job." This gave me
a lot to think about. I came home early after my conversation with the
boss. "Honey," I confessed, "I've been thinking..." "I know you've been
thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!" "But Honey, surely it's not
that serious." "It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver. "You think
as much as college professors, and college professors don't make any
money, so if you keep on thinking we won't have any money!" "That's a
faulty syllogism," I said impatiently, and she began to cry. I'd had
enough. "I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door.
I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche, with a PBS
station on the radio. I roared into the parking lot and ran up to the big
glass doors... they didn't open. The library was closed. To this day, I
believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night. As I sank
to the ground clawing at the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra,
a poster caught my eye. "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it
asked. You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard
Thinker's Anonymous poster. Which is why I am what I am today: a
recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch
a non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then we share
experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting. I still
have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just seemed...
easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking.
______________________________
Ed Faulkner \ through a child's eyes
Instructional Support Services \ sky is blue
Washington State University \ grass is green
Pullman, WA 99164 \ I want to see again
(509) 335-7566 \
efaulkne@wsu.edu. \_________________________________
=========================================================================
From: Edgar Faulkner <efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: Off topic (Humor)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n115
>Public Service Announcement.
>
>******************************************************************
> WARNING, CAUTION, DANGER, AND BEWARE!
> Gullibility Virus Spreading over the Internet!
>******************************************************************
>
>WASHINGTON, D.C.--The Institute for the Investigation of Irregular
>Internet Phenomena announced today that many Internet users are
>becoming infected by a new virus that causes them to believe without
>question every groundless story, legend, and dire warning that shows
>up in their inbox or on their browser. The Gullibility Virus, as it is
>called, apparently makes people believe and forward copies of silly
>hoaxes relating to cookie recipes, email viruses, taxes on modems, and
>get-rich-quick schemes.
>
>"These are not just readers of tabloids or people who buy lottery
>tickets based on fortune cookie numbers," a spokesman said. "Most are
>otherwise normal people, who would laugh at the same stories if told
>to them by a stranger on a street corner." However, once these same
>people become infected with the Gullibility Virus, they believe
>anything they read on the Internet.
>
>"My immunity to tall tales and bizarre claims is all gone," reported
>one weeping victim. "I believe every warning message and sick child
>story my friends forward to me, even though most of the messages are
>anonymous."
>
>Another victim, now in remission, added, "When I first heard about
>Good Times, I just accepted it without question. After all, there were
>dozens of other recipients on the mail header, so I thought the virus
>must be true." It was a long time, the victim said, before she could
>stand up at a Hoaxees Anonymous meeting and state, "My name is Jane,
>and I've been hoaxed." Now, however, she is spreading the word.
>"Challenge and check whatever you read," she says.
>
>Internet users are urged to examine themselves for symptoms of the
>virus, which include the following:
>
> The willingness to believe improbable stories without thinking.
> The urge to forward multiple copies of such stories to others. A
> lack of desire to take three minutes to check to see if a story
> is true.
>
>T. C. is an example of someone recently infected. He told one
>reporter, "I read on the Net that the major ingredient in almost all
>shampoos makes your hair fall out, so I've stopped using shampoo."
>When told about the Gullibility Virus, T. C. said he would stop
>reading email, so that he would not become infected.
>
>Anyone with symptoms like these is urged to seek help immediately.
>Experts recommend that at the first feelings of gullibility, Internet
>users rush to their favorite search engine and look up the item
>tempting them to thoughtless credence. Most hoaxes, legends, and tall
>tales have been widely discussed and exposed by the Internet
>community.
>
>Courses in critical thinking are also widely available, and there is
>online help from many sources, including
>
> Department of Energy Computer Incident Advisory Capability at
> http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html
>
> Symantec Anti Virus Research Center at
> http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/index.html
>
> McAfee Associates Virus Hoax List at
> http://www.mcafee.com/support/hoax.html
>
> Dr. Solomons Hoax Page at
> http://www.drsolomons.com/vircen/hoax.html
>
> The Urban Legends Web Site at
> http://www.urbanlegends.com
>
> Urban Legends Reference Pages at
> http://www.snopes.com
>
> Datafellows Hoax Warnings at
> http://www.Europe.Datafellows.com/news/hoax.htm
>
>Those people who are still symptom free can help inoculate themselves
>against the Gullibility Virus by reading some good material on
>evaluating sources, such as
>
> Evaluating Internet Research Sources at
> http://www.sccu.edu/faculty/R_Harris/evalu8it.htm
>
> Evaluation of Information Sources at
> http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~agsmith/evaln/evaln.htm
>
> Bibliography on Evaluating Internet Resources at
> http://refserver.lib.vt.edu/libinst/critTHINK.HTM
>
>Lastly, as a public service, Internet users can help stamp out the
>Gullibility Virus by sending copies of this message to anyone who
>forwards them a hoax.
______________________________
Ed Faulkner \ through a child's eyes
Instructional Support Services \ sky is blue
Washington State University \ grass is green
Pullman, WA,99164 \ I want to see again
(509) 335-7566 \
efaulkne@wsu.edu \_________________________________
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (DOT)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: Off topic (Humor)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:36:35 +1030
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n115
>From: Edgar Faulkner[SMTP:efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu]
>
>>Public Service Announcement.
>>
>>******************************************************************
>> WARNING, CAUTION, DANGER, AND BEWARE!
>> Gullibility Virus Spreading over the Internet!
>>******************************************************************
>>
etc..
What's funny about it? I even heard that some people believe amps sound
best with 2W maximum power and 5% distortion. Tragic.... ;-)
=========================================================================
From: ROBERT ROSENTHAL <RBTR@mail.rkd.snds.com>
Subject: Off Topic: Info on Everett, WA.
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:02:27 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n035
Greetings-
Is anyone farmiliar with that place? I want to find out what it's like there,
population, cultural activities, tube nuts in area, cost of renting a 2 bdrm apt or house,
good stuff to know before considering a move there, etc...
You can Email me privately to save bandwidth.
Thanks- Robert RBTR@SNDS.COM
"Us tube dudes & dudettes gotta stick together cuz there's too much bad silicon out there"
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Info on Everett, WA.
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:55:19 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n036
You are indeed fortunate. You're heading into VALVE country and the
bailiwick of the illustrious Dr. Bottlehead :-)
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
On 22 Sep 97 ROBERT ROSENTHAL said:
Greetings-
Is anyone farmiliar with that place? I want to find out what it's like there,
population, cultural activities, tube nuts in area, cost of renting a 2 bdrm apt or house,
good stuff to know before considering a move there, etc...
You can Email me privately to save bandwidth.
Thanks- Robert RBTR@SNDS.COM
"Us tube dudes & dudettes gotta stick together cuz there's too much bad silicon out there"
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <donen@banet.net>
Subject: Off topic: ISPs
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 01:21:42 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n278
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD7ED6.A71DEFA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone know a fast and ISP in the NYC area? I'm fed up with my shitty =
(slow) & expensive ISP.
TIA
Mark
- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD7ED6.A71DEFA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Anyone know a fast and ISP in the =
NYC area? I'm=20
fed up with my shitty (slow) & expensive ISP.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>TIA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD7ED6.A71DEFA0--
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC, LONG, Intellectual Property Request
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:33:14 -0700 (MST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n493
On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Scott Grammer wrote:
> Douglas Purl wrote:
>
> > (snip)
> >
> > By law there is the right to copy without profit. There is a long history
> > of this issue extending back beyond Blackstone to the incunabulum of
> > English common law. Without the principle of non-profit replication
> > public libraries would be impossible.(snip)
>
> Not any more. Check out the response I got from the RIAA concerning copying of
> digital music recordings for personal use:
Sorry that I did not carry my thought out fully. Prior to the new world
of electronic copying, personal use copying was the rule in copyrighted
material, just as person use replication of patents was and is the norm.
Since congress openly advertises that it is for sale, it reversed
tradition by granting the recording industry extraordinary restrictive use
privileges. We'll see if the public buys the x-rated digital discs.
BTW, I detect a goulash of wish and law in this minatory offering from an
industry flak..
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC, LONG, Intellectual Property Request
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:04:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n493
Douglas Purl wrote:
> (snip)
>
> By law there is the right to copy without profit. There is a long history
> of this issue extending back beyond Blackstone to the incunabulum of
> English common law. Without the principle of non-profit replication
> public libraries would be impossible.(snip)
Not any more. Check out the response I got from the RIAA concerning copying of
digital music recordings for personal use:
Begin Quoted Text:
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your e-mail concerning the SoundByting web site. As you may
have guessed, we received a number of e-mails raising questions concerning
personal use copying. We hope the following information will be helpful to
you:
Personal use copying was considered by Congress when it enacted the Audio
Home Recording Act of 1992 (AHRA). The AHRA was a legislative compromise to
deal with certain, specifically defined, categories of digital audio
copying. Attempting to balance the various competing interests, among other
things, the AHRA provides the manufacturers of covered devices must (1)
register with the Copyright Office; (2) pay a statutory royalty on each
device and piece of media sold; and (3) implement what is known as a serial
copyright management system (or SCMS) which prevents all but first
generation copies. In exchange for this, the manufacturers of the devices,
which might have otherwise found themselves subject to liability for
contributory copyright infringement (among other things), received a
statutory immunity from suit.
Consumers also received something. As long as the copying is done for
noncommercial use, the AHRA gives consumers immunity from suit for all
analog music copying, and for digital music copying with AHRA covered
devices. It is important to note that the AHRA does not say that such
copying is lawful; it simply provides an immunity from suit.
The difference between copying to cassette (for instance) as opposed to a
computer hard drive is that audio cassette players (as well as minidisc and
DAT players) are devices covered by the AHRA and a computer is not. The
specific reasons are technical but boil down to this: The AHRA covers
devices that are designed or marketed for the primary purpose of making
digital musical recordings. Multipurpose devices, such as a general
computer or a CD-R drive, are not covered by the AHRA. This means that they
do not pay royalties or incorporate SCMS protections. It also means that
neither the devices nor the consumers who use them receive immunity from
suit for copyright infringement.
Sorry for the legalese. It's hard to talk about the AHRA without sounding
like a lawyer. We hope this addresses your comments or questions. Thanks
again for contacting us.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quoted Text.
This all harks back to software manufacturers and their "liscensing" of
software. For example, I have a "legal" copy of a Microsoft video game. I
bought it at Walmart. Or did I? No, I did not. I gave Walmart my money, they
gave me the box of software, but I do -not- own it. I bought the right to use
it, but the software remains the property of Microsoft. The music industry is
headed this way as fast as they can. Good bye used record stores! Hello CD
Police!
More from the RIAA:
Begin Quoted Text:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are MP3 files illegal? I thought it was legal to copy material (as long as
it wasn't
redistributed for profit).
Well, that depends. The law does allow people to copy a CD
onto a cassette tape for their own
personal, noncommercial use. What the law doesn't allow is
for people to copy their CDs into an
infinitely reproducible digital format, like MP3. As a matter
of fact, Congress recently passed the Net
Act, which makes it a crime to make unauthorized digital
reproductions of copyrighted material. In any
event, MP3 files are illegal to upload or download, whether
or not you're trying to distribute them for
profit.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Quoted Text.
Sucks, huh?
Used to be, theft meant that you took --something-- that belonged to someone
else, thereby depriving them of the ability to use it or keep it. They
suffered a loss because you have their property and they don't. Now it means
that you are enjoying a copy of something they still have and can use as they
wish, or worse yet (RIAA, are you listening?) you are listening to something
they own without paying for it. The logical ultimate extension of this logic
is that we would have to pay each time we hummed or even remembered a tune. We
would have to pay Bill Gates each time we sold a copy of a book we wrote on
"his" software. Leonardo DiCaprio would be owed monies by each person who
passed him on the street and was reminded of his role in Titanic.
Maybe one day, we will return to the days of common sense. Maybe, but I doubt
it. It's too late to follow Mr Shakespear's words and kill all the lawyers.
Besides, if we did, we'd owe royalties to Smith and Wesson.....
End of rant.
S.G.
Nothing is as fairly distributed as common sense; No one thinks they need any
more of it than they already have.
- --Thomas Jefferson.
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC, LONG, Intellectual Property Request
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:15:58 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n494
Scott Grammer wrote:
>
> Douglas Purl wrote:
>
> > (snip)
-really big snip-
Don't sweat the "off topic,Long" business. I've been there, dosen't
bother me to read it again. Did I ever tell you about the time I was
driving back from SF and stopped at a gas station to make a cash
purchase..."Fill it up"! Sorry, what would you estimate that to cost?
"How the hell would I know! Just fill it up and I'll pay cash in the
amount due. "Sorry, can't do that. You'll have to go inside and talk to
the manager. You have to pump it...I'm just here to write out tickets,
and bug the customers...! ( PS: he and his buddy were sharing a joint
when I drove up!) OK, so it was after midnight! I finally went in and
gave some woman in a bullet proof cage a $20 and waited to see if I had
any change after I pumped my own gas. !! T.G.F.O. (Thank God For Oregon)
Went into a secondhand software store for a certain product...got a
lecture on why the didn't sell it...(they specialize is games anyhow!)
"When you buy it you pay for the license...not the software or the
manual.."The license can't be transfered...blah, blah." So I said...
If I buy something, it's mine,correct,,but I can't re-sell it legally?
"Thats correct, he says...so I said...guess I won't be shopping here
much anymore, since you only cater to stock you can resell without fear
of lawsuits!
If you should shoot a burgler in your home...you face more serious
charges than he does!just put all your "goodies" out on the front lawn
every night and avoid the potential problems!
Scott, the pendulum is swinging wildly...try to catch it when it ever
comes back to center and get things done then!
Regards,
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC, LONG, Intellectual Property Request
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:24:44 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n494
>If you should shoot a burgler in your home...you face more serious
>charges than he does!
Only if they find the body....
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC, LONG, Intellectual Property Request
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:17:34 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n494
Doc B. wrote:
>
> >If you should shoot a burgler in your home...you face more serious
> >charges than he does!
>
> Only if they find the body....
>
> Doc B.
Hi Doc,
OK. Where's the body pit? (Hope it's not too near the water supply!)
Joe P.
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC, LONG, Intellectual Property Request
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:03:56 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n494
"Doc B." wrote:
>
> >If you should shoot a burgler in your home...you face more serious
> >charges than he does!
>
> Only if they find the body....
>
> Doc B.
Actually, if they find the body, you're probably not too bad off, but if
they find a LIVE body, you better look out!
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: Chris Galbraith <chrisg@ducker.com>
Subject: Off topic--looking for work!!
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:33:16 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n197
> I'm relocating to the San Francisco area mid-April (I'm 25, what the
> hell!!) and thought to poke around for any job leads on the list!!
> Hard working, college educated, marketing research/consulting
> (technical, business-to-business) since school, looking for a very
> technical job--simple enough? Thanks for any help guys--"go west
> young man" -Chris
>
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Off Topic: Market Conditions
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 14:42:57 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n412
Hi All,
I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I suspect (make that firmly believe)
that what we see going on in the stock market and in world conditions in
general is far more serious than most folks realize. And further, I do
not believe we have seen the worst of it yet, by a long shot. According
to some sayers, a flight to the safety of bonds could be most deceptive
and perhaps a tragic mistake, if you get my drift. This portends some
pretty ominous happenings.
While, the financial news programs and financial analysts are trying to
talk the market up, it simple is not working. For what it is worth, I
believe we have seen the end of the bull market for many years, perhaps
decades to come and for that matter the end of the good life for many of
us for the forseeable future.
Some that I listen to accurately pinpointed the market top, make that
worldwide economic crash, as long as two years ago. Additionally,
Elliot Wave Theory accurately identified the stock market top in August
and now clearly indicates that we indeed are in a bear market, a
lomg-term bear market. The top seen in August is believed to be the top
of a 70 year cycle. It would seem appropriate at this time to seriously
consider strategic maneuvers to protect one's self and one's assets,
including preparations for harder times ahead, much harder times. I am
taking this matter seriously, very seriously, and am implementing what
measures I believe to be appropriate for myself anf my family.
I am sure there are some, probably the vast majority, who will take
exception to my conclusions. So be it, these are opinions I have
gleaned from various insider sources and have come to believe in
personally. I do not wish to enter into a a debate on the matter. You
can take it as a wake-up call and start to look into it seriously for
yourself, or ignore it as the ramblings of a demented old fool, as you
see fit.
The only advice I can give which I would recommend that you to take is
to wake up and look into financial matters for yourself and don't be
sucked in by the propogands being spread by the financial world and
major news services and don't take for granted that this is just another
routine correction. Anyway, I will get down from my soapbox and not
mention it again. Just thought I would share some of my perceptions in
case it may help a few to focus more intently on current financial
conditions and begin to prepare themselves for what I see as much harder
times ahead.
DM
=========================================================================
From: William Eckle <wmeckle@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Market Conditions
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:45:16 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n412
At 02:42 PM 9/4/98 -0700, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I suspect (make that firmly believe)
>that what we see going on in the stock market and in world conditions in
>general is far more serious than most folks realize. And further, I do
>not believe we have seen the worst of it yet, by a long shot. According
>to some sayers, a flight to the safety of bonds could be most deceptive
>and perhaps a tragic mistake, if you get my drift. This portends some
>pretty ominous happenings.
>
>While, the financial news programs and financial analysts are trying to
>talk the market up, it simple is not working. For what it is worth, I
>believe we have seen the end of the bull market for many years, perhaps
>decades to come and for that matter the end of the good life for many of
>us for the forseeable future.
>
>Some that I listen to accurately pinpointed the market top, make that
>worldwide economic crash, as long as two years ago. Additionally,
>Elliot Wave Theory accurately identified the stock market top in August
>and now clearly indicates that we indeed are in a bear market, a
>lomg-term bear market. The top seen in August is believed to be the top
>of a 70 year cycle. It would seem appropriate at this time to seriously
>consider strategic maneuvers to protect one's self and one's assets,
>including preparations for harder times ahead, much harder times. I am
>taking this matter seriously, very seriously, and am implementing what
>measures I believe to be appropriate for myself anf my family.
>
>I am sure there are some, probably the vast majority, who will take
>exception to my conclusions. So be it, these are opinions I have
>gleaned from various insider sources and have come to believe in
>personally. I do not wish to enter into a a debate on the matter. You
>can take it as a wake-up call and start to look into it seriously for
>yourself, or ignore it as the ramblings of a demented old fool, as you
>see fit.
>
>The only advice I can give which I would recommend that you to take is
>to wake up and look into financial matters for yourself and don't be
>sucked in by the propogands being spread by the financial world and
>major news services and don't take for granted that this is just another
>routine correction. Anyway, I will get down from my soapbox and not
>mention it again. Just thought I would share some of my perceptions in
>case it may help a few to focus more intently on current financial
>conditions and begin to prepare themselves for what I see as much harder
>times ahead.
>
>DM
>
>
<bold><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>-=Bill Eckle=-
</color></bold>wmeckle@uswest.net
<italic><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Phoenix, Arizona
USA</color></italic>
=========================================================================
From: Lancelot Dow <dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk>
Subject: Re[2]: Off Topic - Money and DIY Stereo and Sound
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 97 13:20:06 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n079
Josh wrote in response to Thorsten;
>Such a system as described above can easily put a Midi System
i believe you mean "mini" system, not "midi", which is "musical instrument
digital interface" and describes something entirely different.
Just to clarify a point here (without getting involved in the
argument). In the UK 'midi' is used to describe a component stero
system that's physically larger than a 'mini' but not as big as a full
19" rack system.
I believe the term became popular in the late '70s/early '80s when
these systems started to appear on the market. Therefore it probably
pre-dates the digital interface acronym.
Lance
dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Off Topic - Money and DIY Stereo and Sound - was: Antiskating
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:35:54 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n073
Yo Dudes,
> another good point. my friend's system (who has the AR XA) also contains
> an NAD 502 cd player (which sounds pretty good), dyna st-70 with a pas-3x
> preamp (power supplies built by yours truly) and some KLH speakers like
> mine (don't knock them till you hear them), and i guarantee you that for
> less than 1/3 the price the AR turntable BLOWS AWAY the NAD cd player for
> quality. i can't think of a better way to spend $100 for the beginner
> "audiophile". the next $100 should go for a used, serviceable cd player
> (like the 502 my friend might buy at $125) simply because it gives access
> to all kinds of music unavailable on vinyl.
I see where this leads. Sorry, guy's. I'm not playing (anymore) in that
league. As for the NAD 502 vs. AR Turntable, have you (or your esteemed
friend) compared (if only in your aural memory) them with a master-tape
(or even better real music)?
Such a system as described above can easily put a Midi System or Lo-Fi
Seperates (well the NAD has to discounted then) to shame. On musicality
it will inevitably loose out to a finly tuned (and of course either DIY
or Megamod or a grizillion bucks) System.
Let's face it. Nothing wrong with any of these things mentioned (and I
know the penny too - helped while DJ'ing where the floor was a bit bouncy
and I could not get my prefered 6-7gramm on my Concords). But there is
much more to hear.
> however if i coulda gotten an RB300 for $200 i would already have one!
I've decided that I needed a bigger step up (Gary BTW did too). I have
(well almost - the second cheque must go through yet) bought a Manticore
Magician Arm (purely on reputation and the fact that at about $ 600.00
it turned out a Bargain. So no RB 300 here.
Next in line will be the Big Allen Wright Preamp Job, fully balanced
and fully differential together with this cooky little Hybrid Amp job
I wanted to build for such a long time.
BTW, for all that are looking for a really good Pre-Amp, that Allen
Wright Dude does know really well what writes about. We may differ
slightly about the PSU issues, but all in all, I can only recommend
the Tube Preamp Cookbook.
Add to that a $1200+ Bill for the Parts for my DIY Speaker-system,
and you do talk real money. But then, the last time I listened to
diverse HiFi Systems, it took stuff like the Ongaku, Conrad Johnson
Top-of-the line stuff, Rockport + Gryphon and DNM to show me that
my system still had some way to go.
My Studio Audioengineer friend (also works for the Royal Shakespere
Company) had a jolly good time looking for his jaw (it dropped you
know) when he was around recently. He is now not all that sure that
his investment in these nice big PMC Pro-Studio monitors for his
Studio was such a good Idea after all. I take it as compliment.
Sorry for the long rant, and indeed any half-decent Turntable at
under $100 is worth its money, but do sort a arm with antiskating
out and stay away from these Grado's. Never got on with them
myself.....
Later Thorsten.
=========================================================================
From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic - Money and DIY Stereo and Sound - was: Antiskating
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:39:27 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n076
At 07:35 PM 10/17/97 +0100,
Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enh wrote:
>Yo Dudes,
>
>> another good point. my friend's system (who has the AR XA) also contains
>> an NAD 502 cd player (which sounds pretty good), dyna st-70 with a pas-3x
>> preamp (power supplies built by yours truly) and some KLH speakers like
>> mine (don't knock them till you hear them), and i guarantee you that for
>> less than 1/3 the price the AR turntable BLOWS AWAY the NAD cd player for
>> quality. i can't think of a better way to spend $100 for the beginner
>> "audiophile". the next $100 should go for a used, serviceable cd player
>> (like the 502 my friend might buy at $125) simply because it gives access
>> to all kinds of music unavailable on vinyl.
>
>I see where this leads. Sorry, guy's. I'm not playing (anymore) in that
>league. As for the NAD 502 vs. AR Turntable, have you (or your esteemed
>friend) compared (if only in your aural memory) them with a master-tape
>(or even better real music)?
well, being as myself and my esteemed friend are both very much "real
musicians" who are used to no less than "real music" all the time, i can
certainly answer a big "yes" to both of these questions. and where, might
i ask, does one have access to the original master tapes of records you
listen to? or the original performance? you are raising an incredibly
high standard which is virtually impossible to reference to.
no, i don't have any of my original master tapes from my own recording
sessions on either CD or on vinyl. unfortunately, all i have are the
original multitrack tapes and the DAT masters, with some analog 2-track
masters i ran "for fun" laying around (although i never use them because
duplication houses just copy them to DAT anyhow). even if i did it would
be difficult for me to find a DAT deck that i could borrow with better
quality than my own cd player anyway.
so i don't see your point. many times i have played live music in the same
room as we have played this (and my) system. not only that, i live in the
town known as the "live music capital of the world" and listen to live
music regularly. as a music major in college i heard live music
performances that numbered in the five-digits. and i have heard recorded
music which to my ears sounds very much "live" on my system and although i
have not heard this particular friend's system in this configuration (he
now lives 2,000 miles away) i do trust his ears. his background is very
similar to mine, a master's degree in music theory and all the requisite
auditions, listening, teaching assistantship, playing in ensembles, etc.,
which accompanies such an education. however he has spend much much less
time in the studio than i have.
i don't want to argue backgrounds here, but your statement was more than a
little inflammatory and at the very least rude, but i see you continue with
the same attitude.
>
>Such a system as described above can easily put a Midi System
i believe you mean "mini" system, not "midi", which is "musical instrument
digital interface" and describes something entirely different.
>or Lo-Fi
>Seperates (well the NAD has to discounted then) to shame. On musicality
>it will inevitably loose out to a finly tuned (and of course either DIY
>or Megamod or a grizillion bucks) System.
perhaps. however this is very much like musical instrument selection. you
can go 85% of the way for pennies, and the other 15% might never be
attainable at any price. for a sum total of well under $1000 for all this
stuff, this system offers an astonishing amount of music to the listener
and you might want to listen before you offer criticism and insult.
>Sorry for the long rant, and indeed any half-decent Turntable at
>under $100 is worth its money, but do sort a arm with antiskating
>out and stay away from these Grado's. Never got on with them
>myself...
that's interesting. for $30 it's hard to do better than that grado
cartridge. why stay away from it? because you should spend more on a
cartridge? this is ridiculous. is it better to do without a cartridge or
turntable at all until one wins the lottery or gets an enormous raise so
that they can afford a van den hul? i doubt it. sure, i would love to buy
an ongaku amp because it might bring out that couple of percent of sound
that my system is missing. but at what price? sometimes you have to make
that choice.
now i realize that there are those on this list who can and do afford to
basically do what they want. but there are also those who can't. there
are some of us who are truly music lovers and this is a means to an end.
we want to hear the music, we do what we can to get there. and if the
limit is $30 for a cartridge or $3000, it still is the same thing. i was
simply advocating $100 spent for an AR turntable is definitely worthwhile
if this is what you are after. if you have $1000 to spend, spend it
differently, but whether $900 more turntable will bring more joy than $900
more records will is another matter. my friend who is currently building a
system has no more than about $500 to spend total (fortunately the speakers
are provided) and is also going the home theater route. we will accomplish
that goal with nearly $100 left over with which to buy some records (he has
no vinyl). this gets a working DUAL turntable complete with cartridge and
arm, a surround sound processor with rear channel amp, a stereo integrated
tube amp, a tuner and a decent cd player (NAD 502). now, am i to tell my
friend, "hey, don't bother until you can afford $10k for the system"?
absolutely not, because it is about MUSIC not SOUND. if $500 can buy him
access to MUSIC, then it will. the little shelf system he has cost around
$300 and it also got access to music. it's all a matter of degree. will
$10k worth of gear really sound 20 times better than this $500 we spend?
no, it won't. maybe 50% better if you could quantify it. maybe if you
really hit the equipment synergy right, twice as good. and maybe if the
money was spent on parts only and everything was designed, built and
painstakingly hand-tuned by an expert, you might get it 2.5x better.
sorry to get on the soapbox here, but sometimes this "high-end"
"audiophile" attitude gets on my nerves. scarcely does it really turn up
here on the joenet. don't insult someone because they don't have the
resources to go as far as you do. don't insult them because they have some
different tastes or priorities (like, do you think a SE 300B amp is
adequate to run traditional full-range speakers to "explosion" SPL to watch
"Die Hard" in a home theater? no? well then that explains some decision
making). just in general, if you have some input that is constructive,
offer it. but don't indulge in a "put down" to make yourself feel good.
you see, we are all here for the same reason, we enjoy music. some like it
in mono, some don't. some like it on megabuck gear, some don't. some
think that $1000 for a cartridge is obscene, some consider it entry-level.
some live and breathe by the sound of live music, some like techno and
think the "real thing" is nothing to pursue. and some of us never hear
live music anyway, some play it and hear it every single day.
sorry for the rant.
in the words of steve rochlin, "enjoy the music"!
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Off Topic-MSN Browser
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:00:20 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n291
Sorry for the off topic posting but I'd like to hear any experiences the
group might have.
We're going to switch our ISP from a telephone-based system to a cable
TV-based system. I'm quite enthused by this except for one thing.
According to the company they want us to us the MicroSoftNetwork browser.
We've been using Netscape for years and are all familar with it. It seems
to me that MSN recieved mediocre reviews at best (as I remember) so I'd
like to hear from people who are using it and people who may have had a
chance to compare the two browsers.
Sorry again people, reply privately if you prefer.
Thanks and cheers
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: Off topic, not about personalities,about tubes!?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:32:41 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
Hey Joes, an elderly fella from church gave me a bunch of tube gear and I
relize it was quality stuff in his time , but I'm not sure how much
time/$/energy I should invest in these pieces, anyone have opinions on
these? pair of Quad II amps and preamp,Fisher100R tuner,Tandberg model 6 R
to R.The gear is in very nice shape cosmetically, I don't know if any of
it works, it does look like some caps have leaked oil..Any opinions would
be appreciated,Thanks Ed
Ed Coleman, Transition Coordinator, Oak Harbor School District, Oak Harbor
Wa. M.Ed. Vocational Special Needs.U.W. Collector of vacuum tube
stuff,loves being on his bike ,supporter of Habitat for Humanity,belives in
ZPG.Residing in the galaxy of Marci,Orbiting 'round the dual suns Evan and
Brendan Ameluxen Coleman.
Slugs crawling up the window,winter in the northwest!
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic, not about personalities,about tubes!?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:33:24 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
Ed Coleman wrote:
>
> Hey Joes, an elderly fella from church gave me a bunch of tube gear (snip)
The Quad II's are pretty spiffy stuff.
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, not about personalities,about tubes!?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 00:29:01 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
At 07:32 PM 10/25/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hey Joes, an elderly fella from church gave me a bunch of tube gear and I
>relize it was quality stuff in his time , but I'm not sure how much
>time/$/energy I should invest in these pieces, anyone have opinions on
>these? pair of Quad II amps and preamp,Fisher100R tuner,Tandberg model 6 R
>to R.The gear is in very nice shape cosmetically, I don't know if any of
>it works, it does look like some caps have leaked oil..Any opinions would
>be appreciated,Thanks Ed
>
If the Quad stuff looks good, it's worth spending some time on to get it
running nicely, 'cause sets of Quad elec's have some collector value. The
belts in the Tandberg have probably turned into tar, and it's more
questionable re: value, but I have seen them going for ~200 or so. If you
want a good r to r (and everyone should), this probably isn't it. Too much
upkeep. I don't know what the Fisher might be worth, you might call The
Fisher Doctor (I keep wanting to type The Fisher King). What it looks like
you've got is the value of a real good set of iron, if you sell carefully.
With the vaguely possible exception of the Quad II's, I don't think any of
this stuff is worth owning, and if collectors want to pay you real money,
don't stand in their way. JDM
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic, not about personalities,about tubes!?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 01:26:10 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
At 7:32 PM -0700 10/25/97, Ed Coleman wrote:
>Hey Joes, an elderly fella from church gave me a bunch of tube gear and I
>relize it was quality stuff in his time , but I'm not sure how much
>time/$/energy I should invest in these pieces, anyone have opinions on
>these? pair of Quad II amps and preamp,Fisher100R tuner,Tandberg model 6 R
>to R.The gear is in very nice shape cosmetically, I don't know if any of
>it works, it does look like some caps have leaked oil..Any opinions would
>be appreciated,Thanks Ed
Sheeeesh, Ed, this guy gave yiou a small gold mine. The Fisher 100 is one
of the best tube tuners available, the Quads are...well...the Quads, and
the Tandberg is a beaut. Have the stuff looked over by a pro who knows his
stuff, hook it all up and enjoy the hell out of it. This is all top-notch,
collector-quality tube stuff.
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: Andre Jute <andre@indigo.ie>
Subject: Re: Off topic, not about personalities,about tubes!?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 03:58:51 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
At 7:32 pm -0700 25/10/97, Ed Coleman wrote:
>Quad II amps and preamp,
Give them a listen, Ed. If you don't want them, someone will pay good money
for them. The truth is that the 22 is of historical interest, unless you
have discs dating back before RIAA became common. You can build a nice
preamp in the 22 chassis if you keep the QII, but if you intend passing
them on, keep the set. If you decide to keep them, ask me for instructions
on the only alteration you should make to a good set to ensure a long life.
Don't be tempted to rebuild them with "audiophile parts", the result will
be harsh and clinical and awful.
Andre
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
COMMUNICATION JUTE
- --we support pages for music lovers, writers and audiophiles at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, not about personalities,about tubes!?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:10:25 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
At 06:51 PM 10/26/97 GMT, you wrote:
>At 12:29 am -0700 26/10/97, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
>
>>With the !!!!!! vaguely possible !!!!!!!!! exception of the Quad II's, I
>>don't think any of
>>this stuff is worth owning
>
>Not you too, Jonathan! This is a star wars heresy!
>
>Andre
>
Actually that came out a bit stronger than I meant it to- my point was that
we can build better sounding stuff than the Quad for the price that
collectors are willing to pay for it. The II's are nice amps, but they
don't come close to (oh God there he goes again) my Fisher SA-300, and I'm
sure that lots of folks here have schematics of better sounding amps whose
parts cost is less than the Quad's market value. Of course if you're a
collector none of this matters. I have records that I refuse to listen to
'cause I hate the music, but I love saying "I've got Hi Fi ala' Espagnol
and you don't".
JDM
=========================================================================
From: alan cameron <alan@thehub.com.au>
Subject: Re: Off topic, not about personalities,about tubes!?
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:50:34 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
At 19:32 -0700 25/10/97, Ed Coleman is rumored to have typed:
> Hey Joes, an elderly fella from church gave me a bunch of tube gear and I
> relize it was quality stuff in his time , but I'm not sure how much
> time/$/energy I should invest in these pieces, anyone have opinions on
> these? pair of Quad II amps and preamp,Fisher100R tuner,Tandberg model 6 R
Those Quad Power amps are extremely dangerous, Ed. I'd advise putting them
in sturdy boxes in copious padding, and send them to a farflung Australain
outpost; like Brisbane.
Immediately.
Seriously, if you want any advice about tricking them up, Carter Hendricks
or myself could be of some help. There's an irish resident apparently
knows something, too.
Greetings from downtown Bris-Vegas,
Queensland
alan
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Off topic - Omni Magazine (Humour)
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:38:29 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
Results of a contest for "theories" sponsored by Omni magazine.
GRAND PRIZE WINNER
When a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet. And when toast is
dropped, it always lands with the buttered side facing down. I
propose to strap buttered toast to the back of a cat; the two will
hover, spinning inches above the ground. With a giant buttered cat
array, a high-speed monorail could easily link New York with Chicago.
RUNNERS-UP:
#1
If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of
pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite
number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's
great literary works in Braille.
#2
Why Yawning Is Contagious: You yawn to equalize the pressure on your
eardrums. This pressure change outside your eardrums unbalances other
people's ear pressures, so they must yawn to even it out.
#3
Communist China is technologically underdeveloped because they have no
alphabet and therefore cannot use acronyms to communicate ideas at a
faster rate.
#4
The earth may spin faster on its axis due to deforestation. Just as a
figure skater's rate of spin increases when the arms are brought in
close to the body, the cutting of tall trees may cause our planet to
spin dangerously fast.
HONORABLE MENTION:
The quantity of consonants in the English language is constant. If
omitted in one place, they turn up in another. When a Bostonian
"pahks" his "cah," the lost r's migrate southwest, causing a Texan to
"warsh" his car and invest in "erl wells."
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@mail.gte.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic OPA2604 op-Amps and the like
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:11:26 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n083
Torsten of the longish address wrote:
> Okay, You asked.
>
> > The 2604 is my favorite output driver.
What is off-topic about op-amps in audio applications? I'm as much a
thermionic supremicist as anyone here, and would never consider this
off-topic.
Please don't label high quality audio threads like this as off-topic.
They might get confused with the really off-topic stuff. (Yeah, my
contribution to that off-topic crap will be coming to an end one way or
another).
Thanks for the groovy silicon info, please keep us hardwire tube types
up to date.
Ron
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Off Topic OPA2604 op-Amps and the like
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:45:32 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n083
Yo Dudettes and Dudes,
> > burr-brown opa-2604 [thorsten, keep quiet!] which might make your cd
player
> > sound a bit better).
>
> No don't keep quiet!
Okay, You asked.
> The 2604 is my favorite output driver.
It's pretty decent. I get them from my Maplin (Rat Shack done properly)
Shop around the corner. They charge 5 Bucks a piece (significant Volume
discounts) and stock them for over the Counter. They also 1% Philips
Polystyrene Cap's, Wima MKT's and my favourite 'lytic Cap's for Digital
Circuits.
> Beware though it is a very thirsty Opamp and not the best noise specs
> in the business.
I tried something recently with regards to Noise-Spec's. My (solid
state) Amp used a NJM 2068 in it's Phono Stage. The 2068 is essentially
a Super 5532. Now, putting a 2604 in there should have been way noisier.
It wasn't. Noise went actually down. Using the OPA2604 with it's FET
Inputs and excelent DC Spec's allowd me to loose many 'lytic Cap's.
But for CD-Players and Output Drivers I do not consider the OPA2604
particulary suited.
I (now) use the LM6172 as standard dual Op-Amp for all line-level
wideband applications. A Phono-Pre with RIAA EQ is not really
wideband as it is essentially a 50Hz Lowpass - so HF performance
is less critical. For something like a CD-Player or Line-stage,
the OPA2604 is good enough to make an Improvement, but the LM6172
has it for breakfast and then Lunches the OPA627 single (very
recommended for such RIAA Pre's).
I use ELNA Starget (Cerafine) PSU Cap's (usually 100uF) and bypass
the with Yellow WIMA Cap's (from my stash). These are Stackes Film,
mil-spec polyprops with Foil and Film construction. I tried to find
them recently in the larger values I tend to use (~100n) and could
not seem to get them anymore. All I found was up to 10nF which is
not enough.
The Panasonic SMD Stacked Film should make a decent replacement,
but I had no chance yet to try them (read my stash of WIMA's is
big enough).
I use a 1-4.7mH low DCR (< 10Ohm) Inductors (look like large Resitors)
between this PSU decoupling and the (LM340 into >1000uF Nichicon
PL-Series) regulated PSU's.
The PSU's use Schottky Diodes with snubbers across them and bypassed
Secondaries (100nF 50Volt X7R 1206 AVX Cap's).
All that works and is incredably transparent. Very close to the
proverbial wire with gain. Very good for Solid State. It still
en'ds up sounding slightly mechanical though.
Later Thorsten
=========================================================================
From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic OPA2604 op-Amps and the like
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:01:21 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
At 11:45 AM 10/24/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Yo Dudettes and Dudes,
>
>> > burr-brown opa-2604 [thorsten, keep quiet!] which might make your cd
>player
>> > sound a bit better).
>>
>> No don't keep quiet!
>
>Okay, You asked.
>
>But for CD-Players and Output Drivers I do not consider the OPA2604
>particulary suited.
>
>I (now) use the LM6172 as standard dual Op-Amp for all line-level
>wideband applications. A Phono-Pre with RIAA EQ is not really
>wideband as it is essentially a 50Hz Lowpass -
perhaps do you mean 50kHz?
>so HF performance
>is less critical. For something like a CD-Player or Line-stage,
>the OPA2604 is good enough to make an Improvement, but the LM6172
>has it for breakfast and then Lunches the OPA627 single (very
>recommended for such RIAA Pre's).
due to increased bandwidth beyond 50kHz? can you hear that?
>All that works and is incredably transparent. Very close to the
>proverbial wire with gain. Very good for Solid State. It still
>en'ds up sounding slightly mechanical though.
which is why i prefer the 2604. it does not sound mechanical. can't say
about "wire with gain" or "transparent", but rather it sounds "good".
anyway, to each his own. for me, i put opa2604's in everything that they
will fit in and am quite happy about it.
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic OPA2604 op-Amps and the like
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:06:50 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
At 11:45 AM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, Josh Karnes wrote:
>
>> >I (now) use the LM6172 as standard dual Op-Amp for all line-level
>> >wideband applications. A Phono-Pre with RIAA EQ is not really
>> >wideband as it is essentially a 50Hz Lowpass -
>>
>> perhaps do you mean 50kHz?
>
>Nope, he means 50Hz. Look at the RIAA curve.
oops.
where can i see this curve? never seen it.
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Off Topic OPA2604 op-Amps and the like
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:45:21 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, Josh Karnes wrote:
> >I (now) use the LM6172 as standard dual Op-Amp for all line-level
> >wideband applications. A Phono-Pre with RIAA EQ is not really
> >wideband as it is essentially a 50Hz Lowpass -
>
> perhaps do you mean 50kHz?
Nope, he means 50Hz. Look at the RIAA curve.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Off Topic OPA2604 op-Amps and the like
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:34:18 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, Josh Karnes wrote:
> At 11:45 AM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Nope, he means 50Hz. Look at the RIAA curve.
> oops.
> where can i see this curve? never seen it.
Hmmm. Try Jung's Audio OpAmp Cookbook or the appnotes for the 627/637,
LT1028, LM833 or any opamp that is recommended for a phono stage. Also,
of course, any decent audio tech book.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: "Hilary A. Paprocki" <104216.2121@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic OPA2604 op-Amps and the like
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:44:39 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
> >Nope, he means 50Hz. Look at the RIAA curve.
> oops.
> where can i see this curve? never seen it.
There's a wonderful explanation of the RIAA curve in the old
National Semiconductor Audio Handbook.
This goes back to the Seventies, I think...
Hilary Paprocki
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Re(2): Off Topic OPA2604 op-Amps and the like
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:05:28 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n090
Hi Folks,
> > A Phono-Pre with RIAA EQ is not really
> > wideband as it is essentially a 50Hz Lowpass -
>
> perhaps do you mean 50kHz?
No, a Phono Pre-amp is (almost) a 1st Lowpass, with it's Breakpoint
set to 50Hz. Beyound that the response falls with 20db per decade
(6db/Oct) all the way to infinity. That holds true for a accurate
implementation of the standardised RIAA Curve, which I consider as
less than accurate with respect to the real world.
As for Amplification, my Axinom one is, that the Open-Loop Bandwidth
should be at least twice the Bandwidth of Signal to be Amplified.
As I define "Audio" by 10Hz to 40kHz (to guaranty something at least
approaching linear Phase- and Frequency Response), any Amp amplifying
Audio needs a Bandwidth of 5Hz-80kHz before we close any (optional)
Negative Feddback loop. Practically all available Op-Amp's fail that
criteria miserably. As they use NFB in Spades, performance is
compromised.
The only Exception from my rule is the Op-Amp based Moving Magnet
Phono-Stage wich does apply the full RIAA Curve in the NFB Loop.
As the response is essentially 50Hz (due to the Lowpass effect of
the RIAA Correction), here only a open-loop bandwidth of about 100Hz
is needed. This also (BTW) explains why NE5534 based Phono-Pre's
are quite good, while using them in Line-Stages should carry a
Jail-penalty.
> due to increased bandwidth beyond 50kHz? can you hear that?
Not directly, but indirectly. Yo need enough Open-Loop bandwidth
to get clean Gain. I also consider the RIAA Curve as non-absolute.
But that is something for another day. I just played around with a
number different RIAA Options in that one Op-Amp NFB version and boy
does the propper job make a difference.
> which is why i prefer the 2604. it does not sound mechanical.
It does so to my Ears way more that the LM6172. The OPA2604 beats
the 5534 Type of Op-Amp's by any margin, but once you put something
with a decent Open-Loop Bandwidth in it's place (specifically things
like CD-Players), you realise just how "dirty" the OPA604 still is.
Later Thorsten.
=========================================================================
From: Andre Jute <andre@indigo.ie>
Subject: Off-topic--Origins of silver wire
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:08:12 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n082
Leslie Groves asked the Treasury for several tons of silver.
'We talk of silver in ounces, not tons,' he was told.
On the order of the White House, he got his silver.
It was turned into electrical wiring for the first atomic bomb plants. That
was the first largescale use of silver for wiring. My source doesn't say
whether it was for conductivity or because he was building the largest
sterile plant in the world.
Groves was an engineer general.
I wonder if one can make a link from there to silver in audio.
Andre
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
COMMUNICATION JUTE
- --we support pages for music lovers, writers and audiophiles at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@bfm.com>
Subject: Re: Off-topic--Origins of silver wire
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:51:53 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
On Oct 23, 6:08pm, Andre Jute wrote:
> [GENERAL] Leslie Groves asked the Treasury for several tons of silver.
>
> 'We talk of silver in ounces, not tons,' he was told.
>
> On the order of the White House, he got his silver.
>
> It was turned into electrical wiring for the first atomic bomb plants. That
> was the first largescale use of silver for wiring. My source doesn't say
> whether it was for conductivity or because he was building the largest
> sterile plant in the world.
Neither. Silver was used because this was ~1942, and copper was scarce
(being required for the war effort). (The only plant to my knowledge where
silver was employed to a large extent was the electromagnetic seperation
plant at Oak Ridge, which used an electromagnetic approach to produce U-235.
The electromagnetic approach obviously requires miles of wiring, and was
found to be very inefficient, being abandoned in favor of the diffusion
process.)
I believe that the silver was simply borrowed and later returned to the
Treasury; obviously, it is better to wire an industrial plant with silver and
later reclaim it, than to wire a battleship with silver, and possibly loose
it all. Silver was simply chosen for its relative availability (and
therefore cheapness -- it was effectively free).
(If the silver was never returned, this this must be one of the most
expensive and least productive industrial plants ever constructed: a quick
web search turns up that Oak Ridge facility Y-12 required 14,700 tons of
silver...! It is curious that I was unable to quickly find on the web
whether the silver was ever actually returned; given that silver readily
becomes radioactive, and the rather poor radioactivity containment history of
Oak Ridge, then and now, I suspect that perhaps the silver was not
returned..... Hmmm.... This aspect would probably be most interesting --
and potentially scandalous -- to investigate: knowing the way the feds play
accounting games, I really would not be at all surprised if the Treasury was
carrying the silver on its books as an asset, even though the silver might
still actually be -- or may not be -- at Oak Ridge. The really interesting
aspect is the potential size of the impact on the fed balance sheet:
$1.8Billion, not including disposal fees, at current silver prices!)
Using silver for wire actually predates this use by at least 10 years, and
maybe (likely!) more; the importance of silver plating for RF applications
(skin effect) was discovered in the '30s I believe, and certiain precision
lab applications made use of silver wiring even before then. That the
resistivity of silver is less than that of copper was probably discovered in
the mid-1800's.
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Off-topic posts... so-called
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:54:41 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n572
Gents & Anna:
All- or largely-male groups are notorious for not getting to know each
other, for talking almost solely about "things" and "stuff", while leaving
the matters of people, feelings, struggles and joys, in many ways untouched.
I find the seemingly tangential excursions of late VERY interesting...
in the end, I'm much at least as interested in people as in "stuff". Lately
I've learned things about some of you that I would never have known
otherwise...
This is not to say that techincal endeavours are disinteresting, far
from it. I love the way Mother Nature has laid down the rules and even more
I love the way they don't change day to day or operate on hidden agendas.
Nature is DEEPLY intelligent and the interplay between Mother Nature and
human nature is what keeps me in the game.
Maybe one day we'll loin some friggin' respec'... and stop thinking we
can outsmart Her. I hope so...
Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
2528 19 St. S.W., Calgary, Ab.,
Canada T2T 4X3
Ph. 1 403 244 4434 Fx. 1 403 244 9026
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: Off topic question spurred by 83s
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:03:45 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n247
I'll try to post this a third time, I had a question that was stimulated by
the posting on UV emissions of 83s. A while back in the newspaper there was
a list of 10 things to prevent illness/stay healthy. One of the items
mentioned keeping your clock radio a minimum of three feet away from your
bed!? Do clock radios emit a large amount of EMF? was this a joke? TIA Ed
Ed Coleman,M.ED.University of Washington.Transition Coordinator,Oak Harbor
School District,Oak Harbor Wa.USA.
Supporter of Habitat of Humanity and ZPG.Orbiting in the universe of Marci
O.T.R.,shining in the light of the dual sons Evan and Brendan Ameluxen
Coleman
Slugs crawling to the garden!,spring in the northwest!
=========================================================================
From: An-shyang Chu <hopper@chtm.chtm.unm.edu>
Subject: off-topic: Rega planet CD player
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:31:42 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n073
Hi,
Have anyone hear this one and what do you think?? My CD die and am
looking for a replacement (I know, I know.... I have given away all my LP
when my roommate moved out with his LP12). Joe Roberts seems to like it
a lot. I have a CAL Icon II for now and would like to know: how are the two
compared. Help!!
hopper
p.s. I can not get the Rega in my area for testing out.
=========================================================================
From: Robert Root <rrjlife@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: off-topic: Rega planet CD player
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:15:52 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n074
An-shyang Chu wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Have anyone hear this one and what do you think?? My CD die and am
> looking for a replacement (I know, I know.... I have given away all my LP
> when my roommate moved out with his LP12). Joe Roberts seems to like it
> a lot. I have a CAL Icon II for now and would like to know: how are the two
> compared. Help!!
>
> hopper
>
> p.s. I can not get the Rega in my area for testing out.
I replaced my Mission PCM-7000 with the new Planet last week and boy
am I happy. Vinyl being my main media I find the Planet just plays
good music and is a step ahead of most high priced units. Solid die
cast alum. case with the top loading most welcomed feature rather
than the robotic arm that hungers for a cookie!.
I am using it with my just completed (Eurdice SP #10) transformer
coupled 437A line stage preamp with 83 mv rect. Such magic in sonic
signature keeps me inside a lot. Preamp is housed in a 4-in high
birds-eye maple case with 1/8-in T-6 Al. powder coated top and bottom
plates. Oil cap, choke input, timed delay B+, and Mega-Hertz trannys
complete the package.
RR
=========================================================================
From: "Conrad Drake" <conrad.drake@intellect.com.au>
Subject: OFF TOPIC request - command line image convertor??
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:38:34 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n385
Appolgies for the off topic post, but so far conventional searches haven't found what I'm looking fo
r:
I have a large number of BMP files I want to convert to a more efficient format (gif or perhaps jp
eg) and I don't want to open them all up and Save-As by hand.
So does anyone know of a cheap/free BMP->GIF or similar command line/batch mode file conversion util
ity?
[We're running Virus^h^h^h^h^h Windows 95, but also have MKS/Perl 5.004 up and running]
Thanks for the patience,
Conrad Drake
- --
Conrad Drake conrad.drake@intellect.com.au
Intellect Australia, 7 Turner Avenue, Bentley WA 6102
Australia (ph) +61 8 9472 2222 (fx) +61 8 9470 1532
Intellect who? Visit us at http://www.intellect.com.au
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Off Topic: Smoking [Was: geetars (WAS reg PS)]
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:32:39 -0700 (MST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 Zyxtan@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/10/99 11:34:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> ride5000@ride.ri.net writes:
>
> > Yeah, I smoke cigarettes too. I also ride motorcycles, scuba dive,
> > sail, ski, take hallucinogenic drugs, and jump out of airplanes.
> The hallucinogens are ok,but really ,smoking is truly an un-kharmic activity-
> you might want to take up pot instead.:>)
It is curious, but neither moralizing nor knowledgizing has an effect on
smoking, at least not among the general population. It is known that
smoking and education are inverse, but no one knows whether those who
persist in academic study possess a character trait that innoculates them
against the temptation or if accumulated knowledge does so. Only
physicians quit in substantial numbers in the U.S. when the mortality
risks of smoking were established by incontestable data, but they did drop
from 34% to 3%, absolutely astonishing, but probably an indication of the
lesser tendency of medical personnel to engage in fantasies about their
immortality. Registered nurses, however, are five to six times more
likely than physicians to smoke.
It is a popular belief that smoking reduces life expectancy by a year or
two. The facts are quite sobering. In the U.S., white males who smoke
and suffer from myocardial infarct (heart attack) have their first attack
at age 46; white males who do not smoke and yet suffer an M.I. do so on
average at age 67. Smoking white males have a 3 in 5 chances of dying
from that initial heart attack and non-smoking a 1 in 5.
Here is the shocker. Those who smoke in the United States of Tobacco die
on average 19 years before non-smokers. Put that in your pipe. . . .
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Smoking [Was: geetars (WAS reg PS)]
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:53:07 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:32:39 -0700 (MST), Douglas Purl
<dcp@selway.umt.edu> wrote:
>Here is the shocker. Those who smoke in the United States of Tobacco die
>on average 19 years before non-smokers. Put that in your pipe. . . .
Here's a pisser -- the average restaurant or bar employee inhales the
equivalent of two pack of cigarettes worth of second-hand smoke over
an eight hour shift.
Filthy, disgusting habit....
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
Subject: off-topic, SS amp schemacics
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:38:08 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n078
not to offend anyone, i am looking for any SS high-current amp designs on
the net which i might review for a subwoofer amp inspiration. if anyone
can point at any, please let me know.
thanks-
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: Steve_Apex_JR <steve.apexjr@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: off-topic, SS amp schemacics
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:43:22 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n079
I have a few subwoofer amps in stock...JBL Bass Wave 100 W 8 ohm,
Paramount Pictures SA140
100 -120W using 2 LM 3886T chip w/o 44Vct -56Vct Transformer, HTP Int
25/25W using Sanyo STK 4141V Power amp....Not all listed yet on my website
www.aviastar.net/apexjr e-mail me for more info or call
818-248-0416
> From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
> To: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: off-topic, SS amp schemacics
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 11:38 AM
>
> not to offend anyone, i am looking for any SS high-current amp designs on
> the net which i might review for a subwoofer amp inspiration. if anyone
> can point at any, please let me know.
>
> thanks-
> -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- -
>
josh_karnes:
>
> shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist,
drummer,
> composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic,
carpenter,
> wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: OFF topic topics
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:42:37 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:25:52 +1100, "Bart Shepherd"
<bart.shepherd@ttm.com.sg> wrote:
>Can we get off, smoking, drinking, guitars and cars and get on with the real
>list business of my 300B is bigger and better than your 300B!
Relax. Like all off-topic excursions, this too will pass.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd" <bart.shepherd@ttm.com.sg>
Subject: OFF topic topics
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:25:52 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
Hey guys,
Can we get off, smoking, drinking, guitars and cars and get on with the real
list business of my 300B is bigger and better than your 300B!
Bart (who thinks 300B's make an OK driver :-)
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd" <bart.shepherd@ttm.com.sg>
Subject: Re: OFF topic topics
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:38:59 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n568
My attempt at hunour was obviously too poor for you to intuit I am relaxed.
zzzzzzzzzz
From: David Barnett
><bart.shepherd@ttm.com.sg> wrote:
>
>>Can we get off, smoking, drinking, guitars and cars and get on with the
real
>>list business of my 300B is bigger and better than your 300B!
>
>Relax. Like all off-topic excursions, this too will pass.
>
>--dnb
>
=========================================================================
From: ROBERT ROSENTHAL <RBTR@mail.rkd.snds.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC:TRAVEL INFO on South America
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 16:07:43 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n102
Greetings All,
I will be taking a leave of absence for a solid month (in
order to regain my sanity from my corporate job where I
haven't had more tha 2 days off for an entire year!)in
December.
I'm thinking of Yucatan,Columbia,Equador,Chile. To go
there on my own with a backpack & a coupla changes of
clothes, to relax for the first week then see some
interesting sights & get to know a few new folks, that's the
idea.
If anyone can share their experiences or knowledge,
that would be most welcome.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Please Email me privately with info:
Best regards, Rob RBTR@SNDS.COM
=========================================================================
From: Reid Welch <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:09:46 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n026
At 05:31 AM 9/17/97 +0100, Andre wrote:
<Snip>
>Furthermore, while--again--among the educated and reasonably tolerant (some
>congenital arseholes here are excepted from the latter condition)
Andre,
Why do you continue in this way? Didn't you quit the list a few weeks
ago...what, for the third or fourth time? Your display a ludicrous
pattern. You flame out and run away, saying you are done with the list. The
next week you are back without a murmer of apology to begin slinging new
defamations.
I did not get futher into your post than the line quoted above.
I like letters in Nederlands or whatever. I could even learn a few
technical words.
Were up for a vote, I'd vote that folks should feel free to use their
native tongues on the list.
However, language is not up for a vote. Anything about audio, and a lot
more, can go free and unchallenged.
But please, stuff a sock in that hateful mouth, Andre.
Reid
=========================================================================
From: andre@indigo.ie (Andre Jute)
Subject: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 05:31:37 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n026
Stephen, it isn't like that at all. Nobody seriously complained about them
speaking Dutch. I just saw a chance to make a joke and Grego joined in
(significant that he should be paranoid about a delivery of Bose speakers,
eh?--worries about his street cred being ruined?--very Freudian, that),
precisely because we could guess at what they were saying. We get the
francophone contingent here gabbing on in French every now and again and I
don't actually remember a complaint, though sometimes someone, not wanting
to miss something interesting, might ask for a translation.
But I'm willing to take up your argument. Here, as you say, it doesn't
matter what language someone uses; it all adds interest. I should think
almost everyone here had a third level education and, even if it was only
the ticket-punching kind to allow them to earn a living at some technical
job, mixing with all those co-eds studying fine arts allows something
besides socially communicable infections to rub off. If they don't have any
languages, they have the brains to learn.
But out there in open Netland? Man, you're off your rocker. Netland is the
lowest common denominator, largest audience mass medium the world has ever
seen. The average education of netusers will before the turn of the century
be one year of high school or below according to a commercial study I saw a
couple of months ago; some demographers I respect think that a most
unrealistically optimistic prediction and so do I. It needs a common
language and absolutely nothing is more suitable than English or we will
end up with a worldwide pictograph culture.
Furthermore, while--again--among the educated and reasonably tolerant (some
congenital arseholes here are excepted from the latter condition) it is
irrelevant what language is used, there is in every nation a whole large
subclass threatened by cosmopolitanism and internationalism, threatened
where it hurts most: in their jobs. Racial attacks in many nations are
caused by this factor. Giving such people a separate language as a possible
nationalist symbol aggravates and inflames their hatred of all outsiders;
it is a rallying point. One of the things that went wrong with one of god's
own countries, South Africa, was that the Afrikaners had a(n artificially
created, in my view) language of their own which gave them a defensive
*separate* identity, which was in fact entirely spurious; one of the
reasons I was exiled was that I pointed this out cogently and repeatedly,
and the very truth of it made the fact that someone like me said it so
dangerous that the bitterenders had to act against me. A large part of the
brutality in Bosnia is caused by separate dialects, left over from when
they were separate people; Stalin and then Tito kept order among other
methods by ruthlessly enforcing a single language. Recently, at a seminar
of politicians, administrators, businessmen and academics, where I spoke on
the economics of communication in the next century, I said conversationally
during drinks afterwards that we in Ireland are fortunate that Gaelic, the
indigenous tongue, is long dead, even though the government pretends
halfheartedly it is alive, because if it were merely dying, the IRA would
revive it and have a unifying symbol that would be worth ten thousand
deaths a month, rather than the measly single-figure numbers this bunch of
incompetent wankers now manage. (I'm not blase about even a single death
but to people with African and South American experience, the little bother
in the north seems very small potatoes. To say, as they do here, that
twenty dead is a 'massacre' is two or three zeroes adrift of honest use of
the language.) The only people who tried to make a counter-argument were
two American academics, who promptly destroyed their credibility because
everyone else (all of them with wider ranging and deeper educations than
the two Americans) knew instantly I was right, and every single one
(excluding the two naive Americans who really should read a little history)
could and did cite an example or several from his own country. These
experienced people were horrified to discover that both the Americans
supported the trend to teach new or minority Americans in their native
tongue and saw no dangers in it whatsoever. E pluribus unim was largely, in
the first decisive instance, a matter of the enforced learning of English;
that American academics cannot grasp this--in fact reject it outright--is a
matter of some amazement on this side of the big water. The Dutch,
incidentally, like everyone else, have their own problem with violent
insurgents for whom a separate and distinct language is a symbol worth
blood.
Perhaps you never expected to hear a multilingual novelist who earns
royalties from translations into a whole lotta languages argue for the
abolition of all but English, but my argument is politically and
historically rather than culturally based, and for it I would sacrifice the
cultural and novelty values of other languages, to which I allude above,
which is merely of interest to a small liberal minority, and which is to
all others a dangerous temptation. To illustrate how serious I am, if there
was the faintest possibility of Esperanto ever being viable *and*
universal, I would happily substitute Esperanto wherever in my argument I
propose English. And I will stipulate that I have no objection to pidgin
English, Shavian phonetics, EE's mangled grammar and misplaced apostrophes,
or any other form of recognizable English; it is the common language that
matters, not its presentation.
It should be clear to all that my original remarks to Guido were not based
on these serious grounds but merely a joke between people certain to
understand; I have no problem with people who want to write here in Dutch,
French, or any other language; I would despise any attempt to stop them as
uncivilized. My serious argument above is aimed at those *others*, entirely
outside this conference and never likely to join it, who would deliberately
wish not to foster understanding. They are two entirely separate matters.
These matters are worth discussing if no one objects too strenuously to the
bandwidth consumed. But let's shortcut some of the more obvious arguments
by stipulating that almost everyone here either treasures some work of art
created or available only in a language other than English, or would if he
could read it. Only this last par is IMHO. <G>
Andre
At 9:49 am 17/9/97, Stephen Delft wrote:
>
>>Thanks for your response, sorry for the language
>>Guido
>
>Perhaps I have a different view from some of the guys here....
>( Flame away if you feel the need :-)
>I have never been entirely happy about the convention that net
>communication should be in English. In any case, this is a mailing
>list, not an open usenet n/g. Joe...forgive me if I have missed
>something, but I don't remember any rules about language here.
>
>I have found some useful tube tech in Dutch - remember this is
>Philips/Mullard territory - and AFAIK some of it is not translated
>anywhere.
>
>I still hesitate to write Nederlands because there are large gaps in
>my understanding - no-one really likes to see their own language
>badly used. But I can certainly understand Guido's post, so can
>Andre, and so I am sure, can others here.
>
>Also...it's the only way I get to learn everyday Nederlands :-)
>(Seriously, have you ever _tried_ to buy a "Teach Yourself Dutch"
>book? ..or even a Dutch grammar? All I can get in NZ is a pocket
>Dutch/US English dictionary - and I had to special-order that.)
>
>Guido...post je Nederlands luidspreker en buis babbels wanneer
>jullie behoevd! (- en vergeft mijn zwak spraakkunst.)
>
> Hoi, Stephen. .
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
Communication Jute
the main index to the pages we support for lovers of classical music, for
writers, and for audiophiles is at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: Guido Tent <gtent@ehv.sc.philips.com>
Subject: Re: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:26:48 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n026
Hi,
Please keep in mind that we can learn from each other - maybe in the end
there will be some convergence to one or more technical solutions, yielding
good sounding equipment, with tubes, solid state or with pots of peanut
butter (if these sound right, why not ?)
To learn, it helps to speak the same language. When allowing some bandwidth,
we might even learn something of our (!) languages, e.g. dutch (nederlands),
why not ?
With reference what people think and say, I think we shoul be free to
display all our opinions. If you don't like some of them. leave them for
what they are, take your advantage of all the other things going on, on this
list.
It would help to keep mail short and concise if possible, but
reccomendations on beer or wine are still welcome !
groeten, (regards)
Guido
" 640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herin are my personal ones and do not in
any way reflect opinions or policies of my employer.
Guido Tent
Engineer Electro Magnetic Compatibility
Philips Semiconductors Systems Laboratory Eindhoven (PS-SLE)
Building BE303, (Hurksestraat 19)
P.O.Box 218, 5600MD Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-40-27 24553
fax : +31-40-27 22764
- - Let's make things better ! -
E-mail: guido.tent@ehv. sc.philips.com
Seri : gtent@nlsce1
=========================================================================
From: postmast@musicworks.co.nz (Stephen Delft)
Subject: Re: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:50:19 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n026
>Hi Andre....that's quite a reply!
>(amongst other things, you said:)
>>It should be clear to all that my original remarks to Guido were not based
>>on these serious grounds but merely a joke between people certain to
>>understand (snip)
>
Yes, of course...and I intended no criticism towards you, I meant
no more than I said - that it was apparent you could read and
understand Guido's post. I understood that some friends were sharing
a little fun, and my posting was made in the same spirit.
Andre, I am aware of the dangers of encouraging any dissatisfied
group to march behind a flag ( even when that flag is a language!)
But I am not yet ready to accept that a single universal language is
the necessary successor to economic and educational systems which
value and reward the understanding of _several_ languages. If we are
truly entering a period of history where there is no longer time or
space for trying to understand how other people assemble and express
their ideas and dreams, I expect (sadly) that we will lose
immeasurably by it.
And if the world's communication must in future diminish to a level
compatible with one year of further education, I will not stand
against the tide...I shall retire to a relatively draught-free cave
in NZ, with several gallons of Coebergh's Bessengenever and a
crate of good Italian salami....and pass on everything useful I know
about lutes, guitars and guitar amps to as many people as possible.
Let's hope it doesnt come to this - because I've done my share of
teaching, and there are many other things I still want to do ;-)
Best regards, Stephen
=========================================================================
From: andre@indigo.ie (Andre Jute)
Subject: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:59:34 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n027
Joes
I'd like to withdraw this phrase from my post on language:
>(some congenital arseholes here are excepted from the latter condition
>[[[tolerance]]])
Clearly someone who in the context of this pleasant club is sometimes
intolerant enough to qualify as an arsehole (and then only intermittently
and temporarily) is by comparison to the would-be genocides outlined later
in the same paragraph a shining saint of tolerance and helpfulness and
charity.
I apogise unreserverdly for this careless piece of hyperbolic conjunction.
Andre
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
Communication Jute
the main index to the pages we support for lovers of classical music, for
writers, and for audiophiles is at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:47:31 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n032
Stephen Delft wrote:
>
>
> >Hi Andre....that's quite a reply!
> >(amongst other things, you said:)
> >>It should be clear to all that my original remarks to Guido were not based
> >>on these serious grounds but merely a joke between people certain to
> >>understand (snip)
> >
> Yes, of course...and I intended no criticism towards you, I meant
> no more than I said - that it was apparent you could read and
> understand Guido's post. I understood that some friends were sharing
> a little fun, and my posting was made in the same spirit.
>
> Andre, I am aware of the dangers of encouraging any dissatisfied
> group to march behind a flag ( even when that flag is a language!)
> But I am not yet ready to accept that a single universal language is
> the necessary successor to economic and educational systems which
> value and reward the understanding of _several_ languages. If we are
> truly entering a period of history where there is no longer time or
> space for trying to understand how other people assemble and express
> their ideas and dreams, I expect (sadly) that we will lose
> immeasurably by it.
>
> And if the world's communication must in future diminish to a level
> compatible with one year of further education, I will not stand
> against the tide...I shall retire to a relatively draught-free cave
> in NZ, with several gallons of Coebergh's Bessengenever and a
> crate of good Italian salami....and pass on everything useful I know
> about lutes, guitars and guitar amps to as many people as possible.
>
> Let's hope it doesnt come to this - because I've done my share of
> teaching, and there are many other things I still want to do ;-)
>
> Best regards, Stephen
This is not going to be long (and I'd like to get back to circuits).
A couple observations: The language (any language) is constantly
evolving with the adoption of not only new terms, but words and meanings
from others. Existing words take on new usage/meanings. Forces that
cause this are not only communication between areas/groups, but
economic influnces also as demographics within a nation change due
to workforce shifts. Still, communication retains the most impact.
I see that as the major influence, and not some hyper-nationalistic
move.
I now return you to the audio channel.;-)
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: andre@indigo.ie (Andre Jute)
Subject: Re: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:33:43 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n032
At 7:50 pm 17/9/97, Stephen Delft wrote:
> If we are
>truly entering a period of history where there is no longer time or
>space for trying to understand how other people assemble and express
>their ideas and dreams, I expect (sadly) that we will lose
>immeasurably by it.
Many good points left for discussion by others.
Stephen, did you see a movie called Wolf with Jack Nicholson? He plays a
publisher and he says something like, "Culture? It's lost. The world has no
heart any more. What we have is pop culture and women confessing to Oprah
how their dentists raped them." There is a large school that believes the
battle for real culture is lost, a mere elitist distraction. I too find
that sad.
If I were to make a cultural argument about language, rather than a
political one, I would resignedly (because I am by inclination a
popularizer and an intellectual elitist only by necessity) have to argue
for dualism rather than universalism. But one would then openly have to
espouse elitism, as in the study of languages and their cultures for a
liberal elite, and pop culture for all the rest. Now that can get you in
very unpleasant flame wars! Though I should hope not here, where DHT SET is
recognizably an elite within an elite within another elite within another
elite within another elite: the rich (in world terms) who can afford
hi-fi>audiophiles>high-end>tubes>single-ended>directly heated.
Andre
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
Communication Jute
the main index to the pages we support for lovers of classical music, for
writers, and for audiophiles is at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:40:13 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n032
Andre Jute wrote:
>
> At 9:47 am 17/9/97, Joe Pledger wrote:
>
> >The language (any language) is constantly
> >evolving with the adoption of not only new terms, but words and meanings
> >from others.
>
> Gee, Joe, I wonder if you know how inflamatory this post of yours, with its -snip-
I remember nothing!
-snip-
> axiomatic assumption that what you describe is necessarily a good thing, is
> to our French correspondents? They have an entire government department
> dedicated to stamping this sort of thing OUT of their language. 'Le
> hamburger' is a firing squad offence.
-snip-
Com'on Andre, they have this big slicer thing on vertical rails for
that type of activity.
- --snip-
> When the flame war starts, the cock will crow more than just three times
> before I admit I know you. Sorry, old friend, but this one is too hot even
> for me!
>
> Claim you were so glued to your workbench you never noticed until it was
> all over...
-snip-
That's almost true, but substitute "drunk under" for "glued to" and
it's more accurate.
I'm no scholar, but have always found language interesting. Re: getting
translations: There was an old thread on the subject...but I remember
reading "The Tale of Gengi" many years ago.(~1917 english translation)
in which one character said " I see a spider on the curtain", really
meaning " Wow babe, you really have bad breath!".
No more from me. Back to the audio channel.
Joe Pledger
> Andre
> Hee-hee-hee
>
> or, to quote the good doctor:
>
> ;^)> <----------- (that inane "winking smiley" is for people who can't
> figure out that I'm poking fun)
>
> Andre Jute
> andre@indigo.ie
> Communication Jute
>
> the main index to the pages we support for lovers of classical music, for
> writers, and for audiophiles is at
>
> http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: andre@indigo.ie (Andre Jute)
Subject: Re: ***Off-topic, Universal Net Language? was "Dutch mail"
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:17:37 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n032
At 9:47 am 17/9/97, Joe Pledger wrote:
>The language (any language) is constantly
>evolving with the adoption of not only new terms, but words and meanings
>from others.
Gee, Joe, I wonder if you know how inflamatory this post of yours, with its
axiomatic assumption that what you describe is necessarily a good thing, is
to our French correspondents? They have an entire government department
dedicated to stamping this sort of thing OUT of their language. 'Le
hamburger' is a firing squad offence.
When the flame war starts, the cock will crow more than just three times
before I admit I know you. Sorry, old friend, but this one is too hot even
for me!
Claim you were so glued to your workbench you never noticed until it was
all over...
Andre
Hee-hee-hee
or, to quote the good doctor:
;^)> <----------- (that inane "winking smiley" is for people who can't
figure out that I'm poking fun)
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
Communication Jute
the main index to the pages we support for lovers of classical music, for
writers, and for audiophiles is at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: Dale.Simon@ps.net
Subject: Off topic: Unix lists?
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:30:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n384
Do any of you folks know if there is a similar list to this most
excellent Joe-List, tailored toward unix users or more
specifically HP-UX users and administrators? If you have any
info please contact me privately.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Dale
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: off topic: VSAC website help
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:25:03 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n223
Any of you ISP/webmaster voodoo guru types out there who might be willing
to help ol' Doc get a domain name and setup a VSAC 98 website?
VSAC 98 planning is shifting into high gear this week, with invitations
going out to a couple hundred manufacturers to join in the fun.
Paul Joppa and I are meeting today to discuss the seminar program, too.
Any manufacturers who would like an info package, please drop me an e-mail.
Any folks who could help with getting announcements in various
publications, please contact me also.
If you know a manufacturer personally, plant a seed - call him and ask him
if he will be at the show.
Also looking for help in the following arenas:
volunteers to bring gear for, and to staff, the vintage audio room. We'd
like to have an emphasis on recording/mastering type equipment this year,
so those of you with cool vintage mics, cutting heads, mixers, open reel
equipment, take note.
volunteers to man the craftsman's competition room - I believe Gary Dahl
and Ed B. are on this, (are you guys?), and they would love to have some
other folks help out.
We need to see *way* more gear in this room at VSAC 98. I can't believe
that folks were so shy to show off their accomplishments last year. I have
files full of beautiful pics folks have sent of their pet projects, but
only a handfull of these pieces made it to VSAC 97. I can offer a place to
ship your entry to, and delivery of your entry to the show, if it would be
easier than hauling it on an airplane.
Prizes will include such choice stuff as MagneQuest Transformers and Jena
Labs Cables.
We'll offer a special prize this year for the best SEX deviation - I'd like
to see lots of cool stock and modded SEX kits and Afterglows at the show.
Oh yeah, we need some one who could organize a couple of sets of quality
backup electronics for folks who show up without a CD player, preamp,
whatever. Don't laugh, we were four CD players short last year!
Last item: I am looking for manufacturers of either high end CD transports
or turntables who might want to share a room or two with me.
Thanks for any and all help-
VSAC 98 will be killer!
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: oh crap, he's back
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:12:22 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
Hi folks,
Please note the new e-mail address
bottlehead@silverlink.net
Doc B.
VALVE
coming soon - www.bottlehead.com
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: oh crap, he's back
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:16:00 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
BTW, to all who have been asking, issue #3 should be mailing next week. #4
will follow close behind.
Between new computers, new ISPs, income taxes and back orders, we got way
behind.
Also of note:
Have been talking to the Paul deLay blues band. They may be able to perform
at VSAC 98. Got their new CD, Nice & Strong - really great, super fat
recording, killer lyrics, talented musicians.
Just few exhibitors who have said they will be at VSAC:
Lowther America
Welborne Labs
Edgarhorn
First Impression Music
Tube Research Labs
Moth Audio
Definitive Sound Makers
Jena Labs
Electronic Tonalities
eXtreme Audio
Wright Sound
Audiopax Sistemas
MagneQuest
rumor has it Mr. Garber may come out for a visit, as will Buddha and Mikey.
We shall ask each of these fine gents to give a seminar, as well as
perfesser Olson, perfesser Tucker and perfesser Joppa.
Doc B.
VALVE
coming soon - www.bottlehead.com
=========================================================================
From: el34@juno.com
Subject: Re: Oh No--Not Jazz at the Pawnshop
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:18:44 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n005
My current "test disks" are:
Miles Davis- Kind of Blue
The 20 bit remaster CD is very detailed. I use it for testing low level
detail in the presence of higher level sound. In the opening bars of
track one you should be able to hear the ridges on the strings as Paul
Chambers fingers slide up and down the bass. Great sound AND great music.
K.D. Lang- All You Can Eat
The best sound quality I have heard on a "modern" recording. Great punchy
bass and sparkling high end. This one has been released on LP as well.
The song writing and subject matter leave a lot to be desired, the title
is not referring to ice cream :-))
=========================================================================
From: Peter Allen <ptrallen@melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Oh No--Not Jazz at the Pawnshop
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 10:09:39 +1000 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n005
Listening to experimental $15,000 electrostatic speakers at our Audio Club
last week, we couldn't tell how good they were because we didn't know the
music chosen. People said we should start with ten minutes of "Standard Test
Discs."
At home to evaluate equipment I use Jazz at the Pawnshop (Proprius),
Arnold's English Dances (Reference), Amanda McBroom's Dreaming (Geffen) and
Opus 3 Depth of Image--"Telephona ringin", even Dave Grusin's first Sheffield.
What tracks do you find to be useful to get the measure of a system?
(We may quote you here).
- -peter.
_____________________________________________________________
Peter Allen ptrallen@melbpc.org.au ( 8*{)
Editor, Melbourne Audio Club http://www.vicnet.net.au/~macinc
ask for a free e-copy of our magazine
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Oh No--Not Jazz at the Pawnshop
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:15:02 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n006
- --------------E6C67AC110B9E18DFA352FFC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Peter Allen wrote:
> Listening to experimental $15,000 electrostatic speakers at our Audio
> Club
> last week, we couldn't tell how good they were because we didn't know
> the
> music chosen. People said we should start with ten minutes of
> "Standard Test
> Discs."
>
> At home to evaluate equipment I use Jazz at the Pawnshop (Proprius),
> Arnold's English Dances (Reference), Amanda McBroom's Dreaming
> (Geffen) and
> Opus 3 Depth of Image--"Telephona ringin", even Dave Grusin's first
> Sheffield.
>
> What tracks do you find to be useful to get the measure of a system?
> (We may quote you here).
>
> -peter.
> _____________________________________________________________
> Peter Allen ptrallen@melbpc.org.au ( 8*{)
> Editor, Melbourne Audio Club http://www.vicnet.net.au/~macinc
> ask for a free e-copy of our magazine
OK, I'm gonna get mail for this one.The first disc I grab when
auditioning anything is:...........
Neil Diamond, Johnathan Livingston Seagull.
Waiting for the laughter to die down.....
Now, why, you ask, snickering?
because:
* I love the music.
* I have heard this album at least 1,000 times over the last 20
years.
* It is well (not perfectly) recorded.
* I know what Neil's voice sounds like, having heard most of his
albums, and having seen him in concert.
* I know all the nuances of the recording and performance, and if
something is wrong, it sticks out to me like a sore thumb.
After Neil, I usually break out Days of Future Passed by The Moody
Blues, and maybe A Decade of Steely Dan.
In all cases, not only do I listen for the usual list of audiophile
goodies, but more importantly, I wait to see if I am impressed with the
feelings and emotions that I hve come to associate with those
recordings. No feeling, try another piece of gear, this one's not gonna
do it. I wait to see if in 10 or 20 minutes I'm listening to the music
or to the system. If the system's presentation of the music isn't good
enough to distract me away from the system itself, then it's on to
better gear! In other words, a really good system backs slowly out of
your thoughts and leaves the music for you to enjoy. If not, something's
wrong.
Just my 0.02 worth.
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
- --------------E6C67AC110B9E18DFA352FFC
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
Peter Allen wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Listening to experimental $15,000 electrostatic speakers
at our Audio Club
<BR>last week, we couldn't tell how good they were because we didn't know
the
<BR>music chosen. People said we should start with ten minutes of "Standard
Test
<BR>Discs."
<P>At home to evaluate equipment I use Jazz at the Pawnshop (Proprius),
<BR>Arnold's English Dances (Reference), Amanda McBroom's Dreaming (Geffen)
and
<BR>Opus 3 Depth of Image--"Telephona ringin", even Dave Grusin's first
Sheffield.
<P>What tracks do you find to be useful to get the measure of a system?
<BR>(We may quote you here).
<P>-peter.
<BR>_____________________________________________________________
<BR>Peter Allen ptrallen@melbpc.org.au &n
bsp;
( 8*{)
<BR>Editor, Melbourne Audio Club <A HREF="http://www.vicnet.net.au/~macinc">http://www.vicnet.net.au
/~macinc</A>
<BR> ask for a free e-copy of our magazine</BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, I'm gonna get mail for this one.The first disc I grab when auditioning
anything is:...........
<BR>
<P>Neil Diamond, Johnathan Livingston Seagull.
<P>Waiting for the laughter to die down.....
<P>Now, why, you ask, snickering?
<BR>because:
<UL>
<LI>
I love the music.</LI>
<LI>
I have heard this album at least 1,000 times over the last 20 years.</LI>
<LI>
It is well (not perfectly) recorded.</LI>
<LI>
I know what Neil's voice sounds like, having heard most of his albums,
and having seen him in concert.</LI>
<LI>
I know all the nuances of the recording and performance, and if something
is wrong, it sticks out to me like a sore thumb.</LI>
</UL>
After Neil, I usually break out Days of Future Passed by The Moody Blues,
and maybe A Decade of Steely Dan.
<P>In all cases, not only do I listen for the usual list of audiophile
goodies, but more importantly, I wait to see if I am impressed with the
feelings and emotions that I hve come to associate with those recordings.
No feeling, try another piece of gear, this one's not gonna do it. I wait
to see if in 10 or 20 minutes I'm listening to the music or to the system.
If the system's presentation of the music isn't good enough to distract
me away from the system itself, then it's on to better gear! In other words,
a really good system backs slowly out of your thoughts and leaves the music
for you to enjoy. If not, something's wrong.
<P>Just my 0.02 worth.
<BR>S.G.
<BR>
<P>--
<BR>"To save every cog and wheel is the first
<BR>precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
<BR>Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
<BR><A HREF="http://www.cdc.net/~gesic">http://www.cdc.net/~gesic</A>
<BR> </HTML>
- --------------E6C67AC110B9E18DFA352FFC--
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Oh No--Not Jazz at the Pawnshop
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:15:33
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n006
Hi Peter,
I use the following to assess systems:
Orchestral, depth of image and intermodulation test.
Night on Bald Mountain, Moussorgsky, arr. Stowkowski, Erich Kunzel,
Cinncinati Pops, Telarc CD80129
Accoustic, realism and stage presence,
Unplugged, Eric Clapton, 'Old Love', track 13, Reprise, 9362 45024 2.
Stereo field, female vocal.
Opus 3, Test Record 1, CD79000, track 1, Tiden Bara Gar.
Drums, Massed choirs
The Power of One, Teddy Prendergast, track 5, Elektra Entertainment, 7559
61335 2
Mother Africa Reprise, track 12.
Accoustic transient attack
Tea for the Tillerman, Cat Stevens, track 1, Island Masters, 842 353 2
Female Vocals, resolution
Mari Boine/Jan Garbarek, Visible Worlds, ECM Records, catalogue not available.
These cover most of it and have served me well, but I cannot recall...
Cheers,
Hugh R. Dean
ASPEN Amplifiers
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Oil cap ratings
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:12:00 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n040
I have a number of old Cornell-Dublier oil caps lying around. The ones I
am most interested in are rated for 220v AC.
Is there a good rule of thumb for estimating the DC voltage rating from
the AC rating? These might be interesting coupling caps (1uf + .1uf), but
I want to be sure they'll handle higher plate voltages before trying them.
Don't want any nasty toxic waste explosions in the basement, of course.
- -dave
By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete.
Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly.
Venus De Milo.
To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */
-Charles Fort
=========================================================================
From: match@ee.utah.edu
Subject: Re: Oil cap ratings
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:55:45 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n041
> I have a number of old Cornell-Dublier oil caps lying around. The ones I
> am most interested in are rated for 220v AC.
>
> Is there a good rule of thumb for estimating the DC voltage rating from
> the AC rating?
Yes, there is. 2.8 X RMS rating of cap. Your 220v caps should be
good for 622v DC. This is why:
When the cap is exposed to AC at its rated voltage, it charges to the
ac peak voltage during the first half cycle. The next half cycle
exposes the dielectric to to this same peak value, but of opposite
polarity, however this opposite polarity voltage appears to the
dielectric in series with the charge left over from the first
half-cycle, and on and on. Thus the dielectric must withstand the
peak-to-peak voltage of the AC sinewave, which is approximately 2.8
times the RMS value.
This is a simplified analysis. Not all AC rated caps are used this
way. Some are intended for phase correction, some are motor start,
some motor run... but this formula has always worked for me. I've
worked the formula the other way round to determine the AC rating of
a DC rated cap as well, with never a problem.
Some AC rated caps are marvelous, some are horrid, not all are oil,
some are plastic (mylar & such), some paper, some motor caps are even
electrolytics.
Marvin.
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Oil caps
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:49:39 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n209
Doc B has kindly suggested some tweaks for my 2A3 Afterglows as I
convert them to parafeed. One of them involves using an oil coupling
cap (4uF 400V ). He also let me know that Mouser has
Cornell-Dubilier in the right values. Thanks Doc, I'm ordering some.
Now, I would never question the good Doctor's wisdom in these matters
but I am an incorrigible fiddler and I love to swap in different
brands of components and listen for the differences/improvements (if
any).
I recall some of you talking about Sangamo and Audio Note (Jensen)
oils. Well, after a little surfing around I find that:
(a) Sangamo was purchased by Cornell-Dubilier several years ago (were
you guys referrring to NOS Sangamos from a private stash?).
(b) the Audio Notes that Angela lists on their website aren't in big
enough values (and anyway have murderous prices).
Any comments, suggestions, advice, sources??
TIA and regards,
Ken Dangerfield
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Oil for Turntable motors and bearings
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:53:27 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n546
Henry Platt wrote:
> Hi all, and seasons greetings
>
> This week I liberated an old Rek-O-Kut Idler wheel drive turntable, the
> LP743, from an old school PA console. (snip)What oils are best suggested for
> motor moving
> parts and for the bearing? (snip)
Henry:
I have always used Marvel Mystery Oil in synchronous motors when the original
oil was not available or specified. Order yourself a can of Blue Shower from MCM
(www.mcmelectronics.com) and use it to thoroughly wash out the bearings after
disassembling the motor. Let them dry for 10 minutes or so, and put a couple of
drops of MM oil on the bearings. Reassemble and make sure the rotor turns
freely. If all is well and assembled correctly, the rotor should spin for a
second or so after you twirl it with your fingers.
The idler wheel will probably need replacement due to age, even if it was never
used. There used to be companies that would custom ake such components, but I
don't know if that's true anymore. Perhaps someone else will know.
Good Luck!
S.G.
- --
TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Smoke Free Youth! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreekids/
A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take
it all away.
Barry Goldwater (1909-1998)
=========================================================================
From: "Henry Platt" <hnplatt@massed.net>
Subject: Oil for Turntable motors and bearings
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:00:28 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n546
Hi all, and seasons greetings
This week I liberated an old Rek-O-Kut Idler wheel drive turntable, the
LP743, from an old school PA console. It appears to have never been used, as
There are no rubber wheel marks on the inside of the rather massive aluminum
platter. I want to get it runing, and experiment with some of the
suggestions offered a while back of the list for massive plinth building for
direct drive turntables. It might make a good deck for 78's.
The motor will need to be taken apart, cleaned and oiled. The main bearing
and shaft also need oil. What oils are best suggested for motor moving
parts and for the bearing? It's beautifully made, with grey hammertone base,
and the motor is about the size of a Garrard 301 motor.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
=========================================================================
From: "Henry Platt" <hnplatt@massed.net>
Subject: Re: Oil for Turntable motors and bearings
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:06:07 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n547
Hi Scott
Thanks for replying. I called MCM Today and ordered Blue Shower, but was
told I couldn't buy it without "Commercial authorization" because if
contains CFC's. You know, the ozone layer. Any other suggestions?
Thanks again,
regards, Henry
- ----------
>From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
>To: Henry Platt <hnplatt@massed.net>
>Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com
>Subject: Re: Oil for Turntable motors and bearings
>Date: Sun, Dec 20, 1998, 8:53 PM
>
>
>
>Henry Platt wrote:
>
>> Hi all, and seasons greetings
>>
>> This week I liberated an old Rek-O-Kut Idler wheel drive turntable, the
>> LP743, from an old school PA console. (snip)What oils are best suggested
for
>> motor moving
>> parts and for the bearing? (snip)
>
>Henry:
>I have always used Marvel Mystery Oil in synchronous motors when the
original
>oil was not available or specified. Order yourself a can of Blue Shower
from MCM
>(www.mcmelectronics.com) and use it to thoroughly wash out the bearings
after
>disassembling the motor. Let them dry for 10 minutes or so, and put a
couple of
>drops of MM oil on the bearings. Reassemble and make sure the rotor turns
>freely. If all is well and assembled correctly, the rotor should spin for a
>second or so after you twirl it with your fingers.
>
>The idler wheel will probably need replacement due to age, even if it was
never
>used. There used to be companies that would custom ake such components, but
I
>don't know if that's true anymore. Perhaps someone else will know.
>
>Good Luck!
>S.G.
>--
>TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
>Smoke Free Youth! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreekids/
>A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to
take
>it all away.
>Barry Goldwater (1909-1998)
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: OK, I've cooled my jets....
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:51:52 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n044
>In the immortal words of Bill and Ted (the predecessors of Beavis and
>Butthead), Party on, dudes!
>
>Cheers!
>S.G.
Remember dudes, Be Excellent!!! Party On!!!
Lynn T. Olson
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Web: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
Editor, Valve & Tube News, and Associate Editor, Positive Feedback Magazine
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: OK, I've cooled my jets....
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:20:33 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n044
- --------------CC7ABBEFD524EE05776B1BC4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Fellows:
As the subject says, I've cooled off. Both Andre and Frank have sent me
sincere apologies, which I accept and appreciate, and I see they have
both apologized to all of you. I can't give up on this whole group of
nice guys just because of a couple of hardheads! Besides, who's gonna
tell me if paralleling sections of 12AX7 to allow a smaller plate
resistor will reduce the noise in my mike pre I'm building?
I will hang around maybe if time allows I'll be able to get back into
the group a bit.
A couple of quick notes:
To Ed:
I visited your website tonight, it looks great! Thanks for the section
on VSAC, I wish I could have been there to meet everybody and see, hear
and possibly confiscate (for safety purposes, of course!) the goodies!
Nice job, Doc, a big piece of organization well done.
To Andre:
As I said above, apology accepted, but I have one small, teensy thing to
straighten out: You did not invite me to the Joenet. Steve Van Osdell
did. You did invite him here before that though. Possibly you simply
misremembered?
To Frank:
Apology accepted, and thank you. I will return your $$ for the pots
anyway, although I appreciate the offer you made.
To those who wrote me privately, a public thank you.
To all:
I must apologize to you for going ya-ya the other night. Perhaps it is
because I don't drink enough, or have been spending 16 hours a day
listening to hundreds of OpAmps chained together through 6 miles of
cable!
In the immortal words of Bill and Ted (the predecessors of Beavis and
Butthead), Party on, dudes!
Cheers!
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
- --------------CC7ABBEFD524EE05776B1BC4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
Fellows:
<BR>As the subject says, I've cooled off. Both Andre and Frank have sent
me sincere apologies, which I accept and appreciate, and I see they have
both apologized to all of you. I can't give up on this whole group of nice
guys just because of a couple of hardheads! Besides, who's gonna tell me
if paralleling sections of 12AX7 to allow a smaller plate resistor will
reduce the noise in my mike pre I'm building?
<P>I will hang around maybe if time allows I'll be able to get back into
the group a bit.
<P>A couple of quick notes:
<BR>To Ed:
<BR>I visited your website tonight, it looks great! Thanks for the section
on VSAC, I wish I could have been there to meet everybody and see, hear
and possibly confiscate (for safety purposes, of course!) the goodies!
Nice job, Doc, a big piece of organization well done.
<P>To Andre:
<BR>As I said above, apology accepted, but I have one small, teensy thing
to straighten out: You did not invite me to the Joenet. Steve Van Osdell
did. You <I>did</I> invite him here before that though. Possibly you simply
misremembered?
<P>To Frank:
<BR>Apology accepted, and thank you. I will return your $$ for the pots
anyway, although I appreciate the offer you made.
<P>To those who wrote me privately, a public thank you.
<P>To all:
<BR>I must apologize to you for going ya-ya the other night. Perhaps it
is because I don't drink enough, or have been spending 16 hours a day listening
to hundreds of OpAmps chained together through 6 miles of cable!
<P>In the immortal words of Bill and Ted (the predecessors of Beavis and
Butthead), Party on, dudes!
<P>Cheers!
<BR>S.G.
<P>--
<BR>"To save every cog and wheel is the first
<BR>precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
<BR>Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
<BR><A HREF="http://www.cdc.net/~gesic">http://www.cdc.net/~gesic</A>
<BR> </HTML>
- --------------CC7ABBEFD524EE05776B1BC4--
=========================================================================
From: spence barton <ence-ack@rio.com>
Subject: OK lets talk about...
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:13:33 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n230
Thomas Danley mentioned that he had measured some transformers with and
without the core and found that above 2-3K it didn't make any difference
whether there was a core or not.
So in a multiamped system.... what would it sound like not to have any
core problems for the high freqs? We use air core inductors in crossovers
(and I use them in my filament supplies)... To how low a frequency could
this be stretched?
spence (obviously not a master of magnetics)
=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:52:35 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n230
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, spence barton wrote:
> So in a multiamped system.... what would it sound like not to have any
> core problems for the high freqs?
Heaven
We use air core inductors in crossovers
> (and I use them in my filament supplies)... To how low a frequency could
> this be stretched?
Depends on the inductance, same as if there was a core.
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:26:26 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n230
In a message dated 3/26/98 1:25:39 PM, Spence wrote:
>
>So in a multiamped system.... what would it sound like not to have any
>core problems for the high freqs? We use air core inductors in crossovers
>(and I use them in my filament supplies)... To how low a frequency could
>this be stretched?
good question. My sense is that you would pick out your lowest frequency of
interest...taking into account the slope of your crossover and then calculate
how much inductance you would need to support that frequency.
then you would calculate how many turns you needed on the primary winding and
how many you need on the secondary....again, my sense is that you would want
to do some judicious interleaving of primary and secondary (you still have
leakage...right (?) ....some of the energy is going to escape out the sides of
the coil and btwn turns and etc and btwn the insluation spaces and etc) to
retain high freq response....
my sense is that the coil will be large....and you will still have some
capacities to take into account.
Interesting idea here spence....don't know if in the end it would be
practical...but interesting none-the-less.
Mike
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@shore.net>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:59:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n231
>In a message dated 3/26/98 1:25:39 PM, Spence wrote:
>
>>
>>So in a multiamped system.... what would it sound like not to have any
>>core problems for the high freqs? We use air core inductors in crossovers
>>(and I use them in my filament supplies)... To how low a frequency could
>>this be stretched?
>
>
The ultimate in parafeed! Load your power tube with a plate choke, then
connect 2 coupling caps from the plate, each going to a separate output
tranny. Use a large coupling cap to the iron/nickel tranny for the lows and
a smaller cap to the tweeter transformer, which implements part of your
biwired crossover. Hmm.
JL
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:08:34 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n231
John Levreault wrote:
>
> The ultimate in parafeed! Load your power tube with a plate choke, then
> connect 2 coupling caps from the plate, each going to a separate output
> tranny. Use a large coupling cap to the iron/nickel tranny for the lows and
> a smaller cap to the tweeter transformer, which implements part of your
> biwired crossover. Hmm.
Didn't someone - possibly Klipsch - suggest this once? The woofer
transformer does not need to have low leakage inductance, in fact you
might want lots of it to produce the LP crossover. A real cheapie, no
need for interleaving, could make it with lots of inductance & not
worry about the leakage. In the original as I recall he claimed the
tweeter transformer needs few turns and can be small for low leakage;
the ultimate expression of that would be an air core transformer. So
Mikey - how much for a TFA204 without ANY core?!
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:12:30 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n231
In a message dated 3/26/98 11:15:29 PM, Brainiac wrote:
>
>Didn't someone - possibly Klipsch - suggest this once? The woofer
>transformer does not need to have low leakage inductance, in fact you
>might want lots of it to produce the LP crossover. A real cheapie, no
>need for interleaving, could make it with lots of inductance & not
>worry about the leakage. In the original as I recall he claimed the
>tweeter transformer needs few turns and can be small for low leakage;
>the ultimate expression of that would be an air core transformer. So
>Mikey - how much for a TFA204 without ANY core?!
>
klipsch used an autoformer if I remember right. Funny thing you sort of
mention this....John L. and I were chatting on the phone this evening and I
mentioned to him that perhaps an autoformer step down might be an approach
worth looking at as well.....but obviously you have to keep the DC out of the
mess here....para feed autoformer aircore anyone???
Very roughly......and I mean roughly....we calculated that if you wanted
response down to 1,000 cycles you might need about 1 henry of inductance
(assume use of low plate resistance triode....i.e., 600 to 700 ohms)....
My concern remains the potential of having relatively high insertion losses
and what the leakage and capacity will look like. Remember that a core is
sort of a "perm amplifier"......if it has a perm of say 5,000 then this means
that it is 5,000 times more "efficient" (using this term loosely) than air
is.....
so if we look at air core inductors say for speakers.....many times they have
greater DCR's than a magnetically based inductor would have. Obviously they
also enjoy the advantage of not being saturable and do not have by definition
core induced distortions......
but look also at their physical size....and these are for really, really tiny
values of millihenries....
could be interesting....but my sense (and ony an unproven hunch) would be that
the potential achilles heel would be size, winding resistances, leakage and
capacity due to much larger physical size required to get the L product
desired.
Regarding availability of 204 coil.....I would have to think about it....could
certainly provide one to someone whom wanted to check it out as long as they
promised to return it in usable condition......and at some juncture would need
bottlehead's blessings since the 204 is bascially his baby.....
Mike
P.S. Just had a thought....why not look into the metglass (amorphous cores)
materials for this type of application? This might really shine.....flux
should be well within it range of optimality and this material has some
awesome "jump" from what bits I know about it.....
=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:38:39 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n231
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, AirGapped wrote:
> Very roughly......and I mean roughly....we calculated that if you wanted
> response down to 1,000 cycles you might need about 1 henry of inductance
>
> My concern remains the potential of having relatively high insertion losses
> and what the leakage and capacity will look like. Remember that a core is
> sort of a "perm amplifier"......if it has a perm of say 5,000 then this means
> that it is 5,000 times more "efficient" (using this term loosely) than air
> is....
How about a powdered permalloy toroid?
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:11:34 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n232
AirGapped wrote:
> Very roughly......and I mean roughly....we calculated that if you wanted
> response down to 1,000 cycles you might need about 1 henry of inductance
> (assume use of low plate resistance triode....i.e., 600 to 700 ohms)....
>
> My concern remains the potential of having relatively high insertion losses
> and what the leakage and capacity will look like. Remember that a core is
> sort of a "perm amplifier"......if it has a perm of say 5,000 then this means
> that it is 5,000 times more "efficient" (using this term loosely) than air
> is.....
Thanks, Mike. You're right of course; I should have done a little math
first! The best I can come up with is, using the transformer
inductance as part of the crossover, and pushing the crossover to 4kHz
(might work with Ariel-type drivers), maybe 0.1H at 2500 ohms.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:49:06 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n232
In a message dated 3/27/98 9:48:51 AM, Joe wrote:
>
>How about a powdered permalloy toroid?
>
If you keep the DC off....this might be very interesting. The nature of
construction of a toroid loans itself to use in precision inductor
applications. For instance the inductors inside the black box EQP1 are
purported to be toroidal inductors.....
But the DC unbal current would\could be the devil here....so if I can modify
my ending note in my post to Brainiac about the utility of the amorphous
core....I should have said about the DC flux and how large will it be.
Remember by definition the DC flux is independent of frequency considerations.
So if you have 60 or 80 or 100 mils of DC then the magnitude of the DC flux is
"independent" of AC considerations.
Ironically this is a case (the AC versus DC fluxes) where improvements in the
one almost appear to be like a zero sum game resulting in penalties on the
other. As a simplification (give me an ounce of room here folks to keep it a
bit simple)....to keep DC flux low you want to minimize the number of turns
(all other things being equal...which of course they never are) and to keep
the AC flux low you want a large number of turns (all other things again being
equal...which of course they are not).....but this "rule" gives some
appreciation for what the design considerations are.
As an illustration....I might be willing to do this on an actual design (if
it would prove to be helpful).....if we take an air gapped trans that had been
designed for 60 mils of unbalanced DC and wanted to up the DC current capacity
to 80 mils unbalanced....and we were keeping the core size constant and
etc....what we would wind (pardon the pun) up with is a design with less
turns and a larger air gap than it had at it's 60 mil operating point. To
further enhance this trend....if we back off of the inductance requirements
and raise the DC current capacity....we would notice a greater "savings" in
turns along with a correspondingly larger air gap. This would keep the DC
flux component low but at the relative expense of increasing the AC flux
component and raisng the impedance of the core and raising the magnitude of
the exciting current necessary to get the whole mess going. So the trade off
is.....that you can reduce the number of turns.....churn out better freq
response numbers (especially at small signal levels and this is what most
buyers discriminate on) but at the relative expense of good quality, low
frequency response at power. And at the expense of greater and greater
inefficiencies and at the expense of preserving magnetic headroom and with a
predicted increase in core distortion.
Shew....sorry if I went off the path here....long story short Joe..... *my
sense* (and only my sense) is that depending on the magnitude of the DC flux
some of the materials that would look kind of neat for this application lose
their appeal....
of course, this, would be the "blessing" of an air core.....throw an amp or
two of DC at it....it really doesn't give a hoot or two.....
Mike
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re[3]: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:01:51 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n232
In a message dated 3/27/98 11:50:23 AM, Jeff wrote:
>
> for a DCR of 100 ohms, 1 H air core,
> Core Height = 1.25"
> Core Radius = 2.5"
> N = 2300 Turns
> D = 0.0195" (24 ga.)
> W = 5 pounds
>
> Didn't wind either of these to check out the numbers.
Jeff: Good job. The 125 pounder...now that's a coil I'd love to build :=).
But the smaller unit should suffice hey....
But we sill have a "choke" here...a single winding....don't we need a
secondary winding? And how would we wind it (interleaving and etc)? Any
calcs on leakage or capacity on this or the other coil you calculated? Like
how many layers, is it a perfect layer wound coil?
I am surprised a bit....I would have "wild ass guessed" that we would have
needed perhaps more turns than this....
if this would work.....shouldn't be too bad to wind....what is the winding
length?
Mike
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:25:45 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n232
In a message dated 3/27/98 1:18:44 PM, paul Joppa wrote:
>Thanks, Mike. You're right of course; I should have done a little math
>first! The best I can come up with is, using the transformer
>inductance as part of the crossover, and pushing the crossover to 4kHz
>(might work with Ariel-type drivers), maybe 0.1H at 2500 ohms.
Thanks Paul....but I don't know that I am right....someone (sorry forget his
name damn it) posted much more encouraging design numbers for a 1 henry air
core choke than I would have guessed or predicted based on hunch factor alone.
See my notes in my reply to this gent (Jeff...right?).
For real Brainiac's (maybe like you...definitely not me) check out the work of
Norman Crowhurst. He wrote some papers on designing audio transformers with
predeterminded and fixed (or relatively fixed????) values of leakage
inductance that could then be used as a circuit inductance....but it goes way
over my head.
Mike
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David N. Barnett)
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:51:20 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n232
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:12:30 EST, AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com> wrote:
>klipsch used an autoformer if I remember right.
Yeah, Klipsch speakers used a tapped autoformer, with the tweeter
connected to a "lower" tap than the mid, to match their sensitivities
to the woofer. The same autoformer was used in the K-Horn, La Scala,
Belle, Cornwall, and Heresy, in descending order of sensitivity. It
had enough taps to deal with all these different models.
My knowledge of Klipsch products only extends from the 1950s through
the mid 1970s, I have no idea if any current Klipsch products still
use the autoformer. I don't think they still use the old crossovers
that consisted of a piece of plywood w/barrier strip, oil caps,
inductor, and autoformer screwed directly into the wood. They used to
farm out production of these crossovers to Klipsch factory-workers'
wives in Hope, AR, who assembled them at home on the kitchen table.
Surely the new ones have PC boards and film caps by now....
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Jeff Brouwer"<jbrouwer@mail.crc.com>
Subject: Re[3]: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 98 08:53:58 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n232
Hi all,
Just wound some air cores for a speaker project that's almost
finished, came up with the following:
for a DCR of 10 ohms, 1 H air core,
Core Height = 12.7"
Core Radius = 25"
N = 1300 Turns
D = 0.082" (12 ga.)
W = 125 pounds
for a DCR of 100 ohms, 1 H air core,
Core Height = 1.25"
Core Radius = 2.5"
N = 2300 Turns
D = 0.0195" (24 ga.)
W = 5 pounds
Didn't wind either of these to check out the numbers.
-jeff
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Author: AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com> at Internet
Date: 3/27/98 2:12 AM
In a message dated 3/26/98 11:15:29 PM, Brainiac wrote:
>
>Didn't someone - possibly Klipsch - suggest this once? The woofer
>transformer does not need to have low leakage inductance, in fact you
>might want lots of it to produce the LP crossover. A real cheapie, no
>need for interleaving, could make it with lots of inductance & not
>worry about the leakage. In the original as I recall he claimed the
>tweeter transformer needs few turns and can be small for low leakage;
>the ultimate expression of that would be an air core transformer. So
>Mikey - how much for a TFA204 without ANY core?!
>
klipsch used an autoformer if I remember right. Funny thing you sort of
mention this....John L. and I were chatting on the phone this evening and I
mentioned to him that perhaps an autoformer step down might be an approach
worth looking at as well.....but obviously you have to keep the DC out of the
mess here....para feed autoformer aircore anyone???
Very roughly......and I mean roughly....we calculated that if you wanted
response down to 1,000 cycles you might need about 1 henry of inductance
(assume use of low plate resistance triode....i.e., 600 to 700 ohms)....
My concern remains the potential of having relatively high insertion losses
and what the leakage and capacity will look like. Remember that a core is
sort of a "perm amplifier"......if it has a perm of say 5,000 then this means
that it is 5,000 times more "efficient" (using this term loosely) than air
is.....
so if we look at air core inductors say for speakers.....many times they have
greater DCR's than a magnetically based inductor would have. Obviously they
also enjoy the advantage of not being saturable and do not have by definition
core induced distortions......
but look also at their physical size....and these are for really, really tiny
values of millihenries....
could be interesting....but my sense (and ony an unproven hunch) would be that
the potential achilles heel would be size, winding resistances, leakage and
capacity due to much larger physical size required to get the L product
desired.
Regarding availability of 204 coil.....I would have to think about it....could
certainly provide one to someone whom wanted to check it out as long as they
promised to return it in usable condition......and at some juncture would need
bottlehead's blessings since the 204 is bascially his baby.....
Mike
P.S. Just had a thought....why not look into the metglass (amorphous cores)
materials for this type of application? This might really shine.....flux
should be well within it range of optimality and this material has some
awesome "jump" from what bits I know about it.....
=========================================================================
From: "Jeff Brouwer"<jbrouwer@mail.crc.com>
Subject: Re[5]: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 98 13:21:55 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n232
Mike--You of course are right, we would have to get another winding in
there; I've never tried to wind anything other than a simple choke,
but would be willing to try!
The numbers I quoted were for a perfect layer wound coil. The 10 ohm
DCR choke used 6300' of 12 gauge wire and the 100 ohm coil used 4000'
of 24 gauge. I had the air core equations in a notebook at work, don't
have the source at the moment. I'll see if I can come up with some
leakage numbers when I find my reference...I have a feeling they won't
look so hot. I was just trying to get a feel for the size of a 1 H
air core coil; hope I didn't cloud the issue.
I agree with you--the 125 pounders are the way to go. My 300B monos
only weigh 65# each, I need something to make them a little more
theft-proof.
-jeff
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[3]: OK lets talk about...
Author: AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com> at Internet
Date: 3/27/98 12:01 PM
In a message dated 3/27/98 11:50:23 AM, Jeff wrote:
>
> for a DCR of 100 ohms, 1 H air core,
> Core Height = 1.25"
> Core Radius = 2.5"
> N = 2300 Turns
> D = 0.0195" (24 ga.)
> W = 5 pounds
>
> Didn't wind either of these to check out the numbers.
Jeff: Good job. The 125 pounder...now that's a coil I'd love to build :=).
But the smaller unit should suffice hey....
But we sill have a "choke" here...a single winding....don't we need a
secondary winding? And how would we wind it (interleaving and etc)? Any
calcs on leakage or capacity on this or the other coil you calculated? Like
how many layers, is it a perfect layer wound coil?
I am surprised a bit....I would have "wild ass guessed" that we would have
needed perhaps more turns than this....
if this would work.....shouldn't be too bad to wind....what is the winding
length?
Mike
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: Re[5]: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:39:01 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Jeff Brouwer wrote:
> I agree with you--the 125 pounders are the way to go. My 300B monos
> only weigh 65# each, I need something to make them a little more
> theft-proof.
Oh oh, If Dunker or Bellici see this... Ed will have to figure a way
to use two per channel B^)
Also, don't figure the crossover point at 1KHz, YUK! I like Paul's
4K better.
I also bet that Mike's gut feel about the parasitics being a big problem
is correct. But I don't have the time to dig out the books and check it.
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:59:05 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
Jeff Brouwer wrote:
> Mike--You of course are right, we would have to get another winding in
> there; I've never tried to wind anything other than a simple choke,
> but would be willing to try!
Of course, if we were parafeeding, and we used an autotransformer, we'd only need
one winding with appropriate taps.... Would that work? (even in Ni/M6 whatever
cores?)
>
>
> I agree with you--the 125 pounders are the way to go. My 300B monos
> only weigh 65# each, I need something to make them a little more
> theft-proof.
>
>
well, at 210lbs/each they oughta be a little more theft proof. Of course, they'd be
pretty much stuck where you built them too....
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:19:31 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
In a message dated 3/27/98 4:06:05 PM, Roscoe wrote:
>Of course, if we were parafeeding, and we used an autotransformer, we'd only
need
>one winding with appropriate taps.... Would that work? (even in Ni/M6
whatever
>cores?)
I think it might have been me and John L kicking around that idea on the phone
last evening. But as you point out you would need to exclude the DC
component.
Choice of core material would then be governed by the AC requirements and
presumably it would be much easier to use the nickel based and\or the
amorphous based materials and keep them well within their respective linear
ranges.
And I too like the idea of those 125 pound chokes....just for bragging rights
:=).
Mike
=========================================================================
From: E Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:28:16 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
Hey, I have some Peerless OPT trannies from Heath W-5M's, (4) which
are all open on one side of the primary, but the secondaries are fine.
The secondaries may work as auto transformers for horn speakers, as
described below. $10 ea
Ed
At 04:51 PM 3/27/98 GMT, you wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:12:30 EST, AirGapped <AirGapped@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>klipsch used an autoformer if I remember right.
>
>Yeah, Klipsch speakers used a tapped autoformer, with the tweeter
>connected to a "lower" tap than the mid, to match their sensitivities
>to the woofer. The same autoformer was used in the K-Horn, La Scala,
>Belle, Cornwall, and Heresy, in descending order of sensitivity. It
>had enough taps to deal with all these different models.
>
>My knowledge of Klipsch products only extends from the 1950s through
>the mid 1970s, I have no idea if any current Klipsch products still
>use the autoformer. I don't think they still use the old crossovers
>that consisted of a piece of plywood w/barrier strip, oil caps,
>inductor, and autoformer screwed directly into the wood. They used to
>farm out production of these crossovers to Klipsch factory-workers'
>wives in Hope, AR, who assembled them at home on the kitchen table.
>Surely the new ones have PC boards and film caps by now....
>
>--dnb
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:18:48 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
Grego Sanguinetti wrote:
...snip snip! ...
> I also bet that Mike's gut feel about the parasitics being a big problem
> is correct. But I don't have the time to dig out the books and check it.
I always thought that both leakage inductance and parasitic
capacitance were pretty much independant of the core, mostly a
function of the winding geometry - which says that any transformer
that is already good, could be run without the core with similar
high-frequency performance (but much less bass!!)
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Plaato <Plaato@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:17:38 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
In a message dated 3/27/98 12:00:36 PM, davidbarnett@aristotle.net wrote:
<<Yeah, Klipsch speakers used a tapped autoformer, with the tweeter
connected to a "lower" tap than the mid, to match their sensitivities
to the woofer. The same autoformer was used in the K-Horn, La Scala,
Belle, Cornwall, and Heresy, in descending order of sensitivity. It
had enough taps to deal with all these different models.>>
I believe that Baldwin organs also used this kind of arrangement. I have found
autoformers resembling what you describe in old units that I have scavenged
for parts.
Henry
=========================================================================
From: Plaato <Plaato@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:29:36 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
In a message dated 3/27/98 2:22:40 AM, AirGapped@aol.com wrote:
<<P.S. Just had a thought....why not look into the metglass (amorphous cores)
materials for this type of application? This might really shine.....flux
should be well within it range of optimality and this material has some
awesome "jump" from what bits I know about it.....
>>
Did any of you see the August 98 issue of MJ (Musen To Jikken) Magazine? This
thread reminded me of the dude with the "Ultra Fi system of the month." He has
WE 22A horns (I think) with 555 drivers, and dozens of transformers, chokes,
coils, whatever....all wound on this white stuff that looks like plastic. No
iron or metal of any kind in sight, and all hooked together with rat's nests
of wires. sort of a clip lead boy gone amok. His chassis are built with this
white stuff. He has sheets of it over and under his components. His turntables
plinths are made of it. The amps are either PP or PPP 300B's, and are the
coolest mess I've ever seen, with tangles of wire going every which way, all
over the place. Looking closely, the white stuff (Plastic?) could be hiding
the iron cores, or is some kind of core material itself, or ...OR, this guy is
using air cores all over the place. Anyone care to comment who has seen this
issue? I wish I read Japanese!!!
Henry
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@gte.net>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:55:57 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
Henry, teflon?!?!
Down here in FLorida we have a source for surplus teflon in solid and perforated
sheets ranging in thickness from say .010" to .375" and some guys go downright
queer for it. I've seen no less than three ST70's with the circuit board replaced
with a teflon sheet, plus any number of washers and spacers and stand-offs and
whatnot. Even at surplus prices it ain't cheap, but it does appeal to the purist.
ROn
Plaato wrote:
> In a message dated 3/27/98 2:22:40 AM, AirGapped@aol.com wrote:
>
> <<P.S. Just had a thought....why not look into the metglass (amorphous cores)
> materials for this type of application? This might really shine.....flux
> should be well within it range of optimality and this material has some
> awesome "jump" from what bits I know about it.....
>
> >>
>
> Did any of you see the August 98 issue of MJ (Musen To Jikken) Magazine? This
> thread reminded me of the dude with the "Ultra Fi system of the month." He has
> WE 22A horns (I think) with 555 drivers, and dozens of transformers, chokes,
> coils, whatever....all wound on this white stuff that looks like plastic. No
> iron or metal of any kind in sight, and all hooked together with rat's nests
> of wires. sort of a clip lead boy gone amok. His chassis are built with this
> white stuff. He has sheets of it over and under his components. His turntables
> plinths are made of it. The amps are either PP or PPP 300B's, and are the
> coolest mess I've ever seen, with tangles of wire going every which way, all
> over the place. Looking closely, the white stuff (Plastic?) could be hiding
> the iron cores, or is some kind of core material itself, or ...OR, this guy is
> using air cores all over the place. Anyone care to comment who has seen this
> issue? I wish I read Japanese!!!
> Henry
=========================================================================
From: Plaato <Plaato@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:46:55 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n234
In a message dated 3/27/98 11:03:39 PM, rbales@gte.net wrote:
<<Henry, teflon?!?!
Down here in FLorida we have a source for surplus teflon in solid and
perforated
sheets ranging in thickness from say .010" to .375" and some guys go downright
queer for it. I've seen no less than three ST70's with the circuit board
replaced
with a teflon sheet, plus any number of washers and spacers and stand-offs and
whatnot. Even at surplus prices it ain't cheap, but it does appeal to the
purist.
ROn>>
I don't know, Ron. some of the stuff looks to be almost an inch thick, and
some sheets are more than one square foot. There's a LOT of it in the guy's
system. If it's teflon,either he's fabulously wealthy or owns a teflon plant
(Or both). BTW, none of the wire appears to be teflon insulated, but I could
be wrong.
Henry
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: OK lets talk about...
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:19:33 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n239
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Paul Joppa wrote:
> Grego Sanguinetti wrote:
> ...snip snip! ...
> > I also bet that Mike's gut feel about the parasitics being a big problem
> > is correct. But I don't have the time to dig out the books and check it.
> I always thought that both leakage inductance and parasitic
> capacitance were pretty much independant of the core, mostly a
> function of the winding geometry - which says that any transformer
> that is already good, could be run without the core with similar
> high-frequency performance (but much less bass!!)
>
> -Paul Joppa
the extra parasitics come from the extra size of the winding, because
there is no core.
sorry for the delayed reply.
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
Subject: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:38:13 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
there is this strange phenomenon in my house. better call mulder and scully!
it's an "acoustic" hum, which sounds like 60 Hz to me. you can't really
hear it when you are standing up, or even seated on the couch (in my living
room), but if you sit on the floor you hear a hum. no matter what. all
the time, when nothing is powered up, it's there. at first i thought it
was the refrigerator. nope, unplug that and it still is there. can't
figure what it is. very strange.
my current theory is that my speakers (the subs) are picking up this hum
from the power wiring in the house. can't think of anything else it might
be. i have not moved the speakers out of the room to see whether the hum
is still there (it is there, incidentally, when the speakers are not hooked
up), but i will do that soon to check. if anyone thinks of what this might
be, let me know! it's frustrating to try to track down hum problems with
my system only to find that i'm chasing a ghost!
later-
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:36:44 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
Josh Karnes wrote:
>
> there is this strange phenomenon in my house. better call mulder and scully!
>
> it's an "acoustic" hum, which sounds like 60 Hz to me. you can't really
> hear it when you are standing up, or even seated on the couch (in my living
> room), but if you sit on the floor you hear a hum. no matter what. all
> the time, when nothing is powered up, it's there. at first i thought it
> was the refrigerator. nope, unplug that and it still is there. can't
> figure what it is. very strange.
>
> my current theory is that my speakers (the subs) are picking up this hum
> from the power wiring in the house. can't think of anything else it might
> be. i have not moved the speakers out of the room to see whether the hum
> is still there (it is there, incidentally, when the speakers are not hooked
> up), but i will do that soon to check. if anyone thinks of what this might
> be, let me know! it's frustrating to try to track down hum problems with
> my system only to find that i'm chasing a ghost!
>
> later-
> -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> josh_karnes:
>
> shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
> composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
> wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
Josh,
What type of lighting do you have?
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: match@ee.utah.edu
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:43:50 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
> there is this strange phenomenon in my house. better call mulder and scully!
>
> it's an "acoustic" hum, which sounds like 60 Hz to me. you can't really
> hear it when you are standing up, or even seated on the couch (in my living
> room), but if you sit on the floor you hear a hum. no matter what. all
> the time, when nothing is powered up, it's there. at first i thought it
> was the refrigerator. nope, unplug that and it still is there. can't
> figure what it is. very strange.
Look for the transformer that powers your doorbell or the transformer
that powers the controls for your furnace or air conditioner. These
are always powered up and will sometimes turn the wall/floor/cieling
that they are attached to into a sounding board.
>
> my current theory is that my speakers (the subs) are picking up this hum
> from the power wiring in the house. can't think of anything else it might
> be. i have not moved the speakers out of the room to see whether the hum
> is still there (it is there, incidentally, when the speakers are not hooked
> up), but i will do that soon to check.
I don't buy this, Josh. If they are disconnected, unpowered, just
sitting there, they won't pick up house wiring fields. If they do,
then you have a very serious house wiring fault and you should get
out quick because the place is going to catch fire and burn down
immeadiately!
Unless perhaps the opposite is happening. It's not impossible (though
still unlikely) for the magnetic field of the speaker to cause the
house wiring to vibrate, which in turn vibrates the wall or floor
that it is in. Easily tested by moving the sub just a foot or two, or
even tipping it over on its side. Still, the house wiring would have
to be carrying a bunch of current and the sub would have to have a
large stray magnetic field to cause this.
Being a radio ham, I've helped track down a few mysteries.
I once built a computer for my then-boss (who happened to be a
designer of vacuum tubes, but that's another story). Worked great
'til he took it home. Everytime he took the thing home, the HD would
fail. It went back-and-forth between my house and his for a month,
always worked for me, never for him.
Out of frustration I gave him my own computer to replace his
obviously faulty one, but guess what? The computer that had worked
flawlessly on my desktop for a month wouldn't work at his house! Not
only that, but by accident we learned that either of the computers
would work while set up on his kitchen table, but not in his
spare-bedroom-turned-office nor anywhere else in the house! Very
strange. Very frustrating.
About this time we also noticed, quite by accident, that the AM-FM
radio in his truck would quit working as soon as he drove into his
attached garage, regardless of what station it was on. Just go
completely dead.
To make an already too long story short, using an RF spectrum
analyzer and a whip antenna we tracked down a mercury-vapor lamp and
power supply assembly that was filling his house with broadband RF
noise at a rather high level, being reflected and directed more
strongly to some parts of the house than others by the metal heating
ductwork. Very difficult to pinpoint, I almost didn't find
this one.
Removing it solved the computer problem as well as the radio
shutdown problem in the truck.
Just felt like shareing this story for some reason. Probably doesn't
relate to your problem.
Marvin
match@ee.utah.edu
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:41:47 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
Josh Karnes wrote:
>
> there is this strange phenomenon in my house. better call mulder and scully!
Josh:
I doubt your subs are picking up and reproducing hum, unless they are
powered subs (are they?). Try this:
First, find a flashlight (!) then turn off every circuit breaker in the
breaker box. Leave the main breaker on. Go listen. Hum still there? Sell
the house. Hum gone? Good. Next step. Turn on one breaker at a time,
going to listen between each one. Eventually you'll find a breaker that
controls the hum. Whatever circuit it feeds contains the culprit. From
this point it should not be hard to locate.
Happy hunting!
S.G.
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: Aernoud van der Wielen <aernoud@usn.nl>
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:53:32 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
At 09:38 AM 10/24/97 -0500, Josh Karnes wrote:
>there is this strange phenomenon in my house. better call mulder and scully!
>
>it's an "acoustic" hum, which sounds like 60 Hz to me. you can't really
>hear it when you are standing up, or even seated on the couch (in my living
>room), but if you sit on the floor you hear a hum. no matter what. all
>the time, when nothing is powered up, it's there. at first i thought it
>was the refrigerator. nope, unplug that and it still is there. can't
>figure what it is. very strange.
>
>my current theory is that my speakers (the subs) are picking up this hum
>from the power wiring in the house. can't think of anything else it might
>be. i have not moved the speakers out of the room to see whether the hum
Strange.... I had this same problem.
In my case the hum was heared on all 3 floors in the house. I tried to
locate it, but that was rather impossible. I seemed that the hum was
louder in the center of my listening room, but also in the center of the
roomms above and below it. It seemed also louder against the floor and
the ceiling. In between the hum was less loud.
Afther some tought I realised I could eliminate the chance that the hum
was 'power-related' by switching down the power in the house (by switching
of the main fuse). You could try this first too!
Well, after I switched the power down, the hum was still there! Now it was
time to get really afraid (especially since the house was totally dark
because all the power was down ;-) ).
Anyway after a couple of days I discovered that my neighbour (sp?) had
installed a new airconditioning system and that this system was the cause of
the hum.
Could drive 'aural' oriented people mad indeed...
Greetings from Holland,
Aernoud
=========================================================================
From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:51:09 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
toob dood sez:
>Josh:
>I doubt your subs are picking up and reproducing hum, unless they are
>powered subs (are they?)
nope.
ol' doodle said:
>Josh,
>What type of lighting do you have?
there is only regular incandescent-style lighting in the house. the living
room has a halogen bulb in the inc. socket powered with a triac-style
dimmer switch. the hum is there with or without the lights on. the dimmer
switch, when set near to the bottom, does cause a buzzy-hum when the
surround sound processor is playing, however not with music material.
oh, and when the tv is on, it makes an audible buzzing too which is driving
me nuts too. this is not the sound of the speaker, but comes from the back
of the tv. real pain. it changes in amplitude and harmonic structure
(though not in frequency) when the program changes, say, from the tv show
to a commercial. i always figured this was a noisy transformer or something.
anyway, so that answers about the lighting.
i think i might try scott grammer's suggestion with the breaker box.
unfortunately i'll have to reset my vcr clock! durnit!
later-
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: Dale.Simon@pscmail.ps.net
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:01:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
- ------ =_WT15839.3450e8fb.0a0/dcuh029.dcu.ps.net
Try disconnecting all your speakers and shorting their leads
together. That should effectively eliminate the speakers from
the equation.
Dale
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Author: owner-sound@lists.io.com%smtp at x400po
Date: 10/24/97 9:38 AM
there is this strange phenomenon in my house. better call mulder and scully!
it's an "acoustic" hum, which sounds like 60 Hz to me. you can't really
hear it when you are standing up, or even seated on the couch (in my living
room), but if you sit on the floor you hear a hum. no matter what. all
the time, when nothing is powered up, it's there. at first i thought it
was the refrigerator. nope, unplug that and it still is there. can't
figure what it is. very strange.
my current theory is that my speakers (the subs) are picking up this hum
from the power wiring in the house. can't think of anything else it might
be. i have not moved the speakers out of the room to see whether the hum
is still there (it is there, incidentally, when the speakers are not hooked
up), but i will do that soon to check. if anyone thinks of what this might
be, let me know! it's frustrating to try to track down hum problems with
my system only to find that i'm chasing a ghost!
later-
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
- ------ =_WT15839.3450e8fb.0a0/dcuh029.dcu.ps.net
<Zero length text item>
- ------ =_WT15839.3450e8fb.0a0/dcuh029.dcu.ps.net--
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:07:47 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
Josh Karnes wrote:something.
-snip-
> anyway, so that answers about the lighting.
>
> i think i might try scott grammer's suggestion with the breaker box.
> unfortunately i'll have to reset my vcr clock! durnit!
>
> later-
-snip-
Oh No! Not the VCR Clock!! That's the ultimate test of man's
intelligence, and determination. I wouldn't want to go through that
humiliation again myself. ;-)
Joe pledger
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, Josh Karnes wrote:
> oh, and when the tv is on, it makes an audible buzzing too which is driving
> me nuts too. this is not the sound of the speaker, but comes from the back
> of the tv. real pain. it changes in amplitude and harmonic structure
> (though not in frequency) when the program changes, say, from the tv show
> to a commercial. i always figured this was a noisy transformer or something.
That sounds like a noisy fly-back coil. a traditional problem.
It changes with the intesity of the video signal. Commercials
are usually hot with lots of white. drives the fly-back coil
nuts. It is a high pitched whine right? (at least usually).
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:42:53 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
I was chasing a hum problem once that turned out to be
my neighbor's bulldozer, at the pond, running a water
pump. I figured it out when I walked outside. Felt
pretty stupid, but was relieved. Oh yeah that's why
I went outside....
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: ok, now ACOUSTIC hum
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:49:59 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
Grego Sanguinetti wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, Josh Karnes wrote:
>
> > oh, and when the tv is on, it makes an audible buzzing too which is driving
> > me nuts too.
>
> That sounds like a noisy fly-back coil. a traditional problem.
> It changes with the intesity of the video signal. Commercials
> are usually hot with lots of white. drives the fly-back coil
> nuts. It is a high pitched whine right? (at least usually).
>
> -grego
It could also be the yoke on the neck of the picture tube. One half of
it (the horizontal half) is driven directly from the flyback, and can
make similar noises.
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: Martin Needleman <mrndlmn@bayserve.net>
Subject: OK to Share Heater Windings??
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:30:47 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n014
Last night I was about to cram an additional 6.3 volt filament
transformer into a crowded stereo amp chassis (just as in the
breadboard) when the light bulb over my head started to glow. My power
amp has two 6.3 volt windings. I'm using one for the driver tube heaters
and the other for one of the self-biased DHT outputs and, as a reflex
action, I was adding a separate filament tranny for the second output.
However, the winding that the driver heaters are on is rated at tem amps
and they only draw 0.3 amps each. The output tube draws 6.3 volts at one
amp.
Question: Is there any reason not to use this ten amp winding for the
two driver heaters AND the second power triode? Off the top of my head I
can't think of one but I'm probably missing some obvious reason that
this is a problem.
BTW, the drivers are triode-wired 7788s running with a tube rectified LC
plate supply from a separate winding and are Ni-Cad battery cathode
biased. Coupling to the VT-52 outputs is via a Black Art IT loaded with
5K ohms on it's secondary. The VT-52 plate supply is LCLC with a type 83
rectifier. OTs are Tamura 2007s. ...and, yes, I have tried fixed bias
but, for some reason, in this configuration the sound is overly etched
and "hi-fi" sounding. Interesting, but not to my taste. Oh, yes... all
filament/heater supplies are AC.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Martin Needleman
(the third oldest member on the JoeList but my soldering iron is still
luke warm 8*))
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: OK to Share Heater Windings??
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:04:31 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n014
There's a little bit of H-K capacitance in the driver, so imagine a few
pF's between the virtual cathode of the DHT and the driver cathode. The way
you bypass the DHT virtual cathode (ie type of capacitor, etc) may affect
this a bit as well.
Lynn T. Olson
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Web: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
Editor, Valve & Tube News, and Associate Editor, Positive Feedback Magazine
=========================================================================
From: Martin Needleman <mrndlmn@bayserve.net>
Subject: Re: OK to Share Heater Windings??
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 19:29:46 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n014
Lynn T. Olson wrote:
>
> There's a little bit of H-K capacitance in the driver, so imagine a few
> pF's between the virtual cathode of the DHT and the driver cathode. The way
> you bypass the DHT virtual cathode (ie type of capacitor, etc) may affect
> this a bit as well.
>
> Lynn T. Olson
> E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
> Web: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
> Editor, Valve & Tube News, and Associate Editor, Positive Feedback Magazine
Thamks for your help, Lynn. The DHT cathode is bypassed by a 100 mfd
Elna Cerafine. How does this affect the situation? Am I safe?
Since the amp has an internal 6 dB per octave high pass filter set for
150 Hz (it will drive my Lowther PM-2 MK IIIs) might the miniscule added
capacitance actually improve the situation??? I've got the additional
filament transformer and could easily install it but hate to to add more
clutter and magnetic fields to an already very crowded chassis.
It seems the more I learn, the less I know.
Best regards,
mrn
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: OK to Share Heater Windings??
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:29:50 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n015
Since the tiny amount of pF between DHT and driver constitutes feedback at
very high frequencies, there's an itsy-bitsy risk of oscillation, but
nothing to worry about unduly. It also raises the heater voltage on the
driver by whatever your DHT is at, maybe 70-80V or so, but that's OK, since
it's well within the ratings of the driver tube.
Whether it affects the sound is an arcane third-order question that only
listening can answer. You might check if clipping still looks OK on a
wideband scope, with no little fuzzies that would indicate oscillation. The
ESR of the Cerafines is on the high side (despite the literature), about 2
ohms for the 100uF/500V size.
Weird little things in the PS can be highly audible and follow no apparent
pattern, as I've been finding around with various topologies that
pre-filter the input to the shunt regulator in my own amp. 20Hy/100uF LC
filtering is slow and dull, a big value of R (1500 ohms) preceding a 100uF
C to ground is thin and bright, a moderate value of R (100 ohms) is about
right.
No apparent correlation to source impedance vs freq, impulse response to
pulse current draw, filter factor vs freq, or anything else I can model. I
am coming to the conclusion that PS design is a big swamp, and lots of
experimenting and listening is in order.
Lynn T. Olson
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Web: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
Editor, Valve & Tube News, and Associate Editor, Positive Feedback Magazine
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: OK to Share Heater Windings??
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 11:05:50 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n015
Lynn T. Olson wrote:
> Since the tiny amount of pF between DHT and driver constitutes
> feedback at
> very high frequencies, there's an itsy-bitsy risk of oscillation, but
> nothing to worry about unduly. It also raises the heater voltage on
> the
> driver by whatever your DHT is at, maybe 70-80V or so, but that's OK,
> since
> it's well within the ratings of the driver tube.
>
> Whether it affects the sound is an arcane third-order question that
> only
> listening can answer. You might check if clipping still looks OK on a
> wideband scope, with no little fuzzies that would indicate
> oscillation. The
> ESR of the Cerafines is on the high side (despite the literature),
> about 2
> ohms for the 100uF/500V size.
I've run my driver tube filaments off the DHT filament tap, taking the
driver tube off the tap and using a dropping resistor to the output
tube. Using a dc-coupled 6SN7 cascade and a 300B raised 80vdc from
ground, one would think this would be beneficial, but I found it had an
small but unpleasant effect on the sound and rejected it. It seemed to
make the driver stage thinner and brighter--merely an impression as I
have no measurement tools. In the end I found it better to use a
separate supply.
>
>
> Weird little things in the PS can be highly audible and follow no
> apparent
> pattern, as I've been finding around with various topologies that
> pre-filter the input to the shunt regulator in my own amp. 20Hy/100uF
> LC
> filtering is slow and dull, a big value of R (1500 ohms) preceding a
> 100uF
> C to ground is thin and bright, a moderate value of R (100 ohms) is
> about
> right.
>
> No apparent correlation to source impedance vs freq, impulse response
> to
> pulse current draw, filter factor vs freq, or anything else I can
> model. I
> am coming to the conclusion that PS design is a big swamp, and lots of
>
> experimenting and listening is in order.
Hear, hear. I've been learning a lot tweaking my 300B amps over the
past year, and I have found that low dcr chokes and the smallest
possible caps give the best results, provided the filtering is
adequate. I try to use Solens judiciously, since they can smooth out
the sound to the point where detail is obscured. I sense that the
smaller Solens pass more information than the larger ones. Frankly,
it's hard to beat the Sakuma configuration--8/10/10 uF with a pair of
10H chokes in between.
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Old Alnico chesnut
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:28:58 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n147
I was wondering if anyone would like to explain whether alnico has
properties making it a preferable material for driver magnets.
My experience is that despite many other differences, my alnico based
speakers do something that ferrites don't, They are simply more lively. Can
this be explained only by their higher efficiency?
Anyone have any insight?
Mark
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
Subject: Re: Old Alnico chesnut
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:57:43 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n153
On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Mark Donen wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone would like to explain whether alnico has
> properties making it a preferable material for driver magnets.
>
> My experience is that despite many other differences, my alnico based
> speakers do something that ferrites don't, They are simply more lively. Can
> this be explained only by their higher efficiency?
You can get the same efficiency (on the driver itself) using other
magnet materials (or a field coil). The only real clue as to why
there may be audible differences that I have found so far has to
do with flux modulation vs. the magnetic characteristics of different
magnet materials. I can't really elaborate much on this as I don't
fully understand these mechanisms. The ONLY place (out of some 40-odd
papers on speaker distortions I have collected) I've seen the
possible magnet type and "alnico sound"/"ferrite sound" correlation
mentioned in a research paper is in the following one by Ragnar
Lian (local hero, co founder of Scan-Speak):
"Distortion Mechanisms in the Electrodynamic Motor System"
AES Preprint no. 2572 (C-1), 1988
Which I don't have here right now. I don't know if I can quote him
exactly but he did plot 'load lines' on the BH curves of ferrite
and alnico to illustrate the difference. I asked him about it on the
phone and he thought it was the most obvious thing in the world.
I have a lot left to learn about magnetics so I can only give you
this reference.
Hiraga's awesome book "Les haut-parleurs" has a big section on
magnets, where magnetic properties, stray field distribution
with different geometries etc. etc. etc. is discussed, but my
poor French keeps me from finding out whether he also discusses
possible audible differences. (Jean-Michel: HELP!!)
If the voice coils are overhung
you have to look at stray fields outside the gap which modify
the B*L vs. coil deflection characteristic. (The distribution of
stray fields are to some extent dictated by the magnet types
employed, along with pole piece geometry.) If they're underhung
(like in compression drivers and some woofers like old Altecs etc.)
I can't easily imagine any other differences than those resulting
from flux modulation of differing nonlinear characteristics of
different magnet types (and pole pieces). I suppose you can think of
the magnet motor/circuit (magnet+pole pieces) as a "power supply"
that supplies "current" (magnetic flux) to the gap and that while
you can have the same "permanent" flux density for different magnets,
the magnetic "power supply" can have differing "internal impedance"
or "stiffness" when subjected to an "AC load". Stiff power supplies
in amps are supposed to help with dynamics - do we have a kind of
analogy here? What about field coil speaker motors - how do they
compare?
When the flux change induced by the AC current in the voice coil is
superimposed on the "permanent" gap flux, these fluctuations of
flux must pass through the entire magnetic circuit including
pole pieces and magnet, and due to nonlinearities in these
materials, a certain distortion is introduced, the nature of
this distortion obviously depends on the nature of the nonlinear
parameters involved. Which depend on the chosen materials.
According to Harvey Rosenberg, there are "cults" in Japan that
worship different types of speaker magnets for their distinctive
"tone", so I guess it's more than just a fashion thing. To me
it seems a lot more down to earth than those endless debates on
RCA connectors, clean AC power etc. At least the magnet stuff
should be predictable and reasonably well understood.
My universal approach to linearity, that the less you modulate
something nonlinear the more you approach linearity (it seems
to obvious to be worth mentioning, but the practice of pushing
all sorts of devices to their limits, especially transducers,
is the norm in most audio gear, and it it doesn't work any better
than it should!) suggests
that even if distortion due to flux modulation is audible,
it can't be a BIG factor in ultra efficient horn drivers/tweeters
used at domestic output levels. But who knows...
If anyone has anything to add or want to criticize my attempt
to explain, please do. I'm curious about this myself.
I have repeatedly tried to contact Ragnar Lian at his e-mail
address (rli@nera.com) without getting any answers. He should be
able to explain this further. (He now works on the design of
magnetic systems for industrial apps. like CT-scanners etc.)
Tom D.
PS:
(Still blissfully listening to vintage alnico JBL drivers,
btw: 2441+2405)
PPS:
Also worth checking out (especially if you know more about
magnetics and ugly math than I do) could be:
"Non-Linear Distortion in Dynamic Loudspeakers due to Magnetic
Effects" by W.J. Cunningham
JASA, Vol. 21, No.3, May 1949
Note!! This paper was apparently written before they were cheap
enough to make overhung voice coils and the choice was between
alnico and field coils, and this affects the study. "They knew
more than we've forgotten"...
PPPS:
Distortion due to flux modulation is in itself obviously lower
the higher the efficiency of the speaker (less flux change needed
in voice coil for given force/acceleration/output due to higher force
factor/gap flux, lower mass, smaller excursions, higher radiation
efficiency etc.). Or to be precise - what we're looking for is
the ratio of induced flux change in the coil to the value of
permanent flux in the gap. The only way to reduce this (and many
other) nonlinearity in low efficiency drivers is to use them only
at low power inputs, like using a whole bunch of them to get
back up to a useful output like I do in my dipoles.
Modern speakers have lowish values of gap flux
(because it's cheap (saves on magnets, gaps can be wider to allow
for more slop during assembly and to put more wire in there to
withstand all that power) and because they don't want too much
damping as this makes it tricky to get bass out of small speakers,
small speakers are cheaper anyway and people buy them) and
horrifying amounts of current surging through voice coils with too
much wire in them to get the damn thing moving (too much anyway) etc.
With the most refined high efficiency drivers almost all of this
is opposite, in addition nearly all the power dependent and excursion
dependent distortions are reduced massively. The best high efficiency
drivers not only have way high force factors (Bxl), but they push the
B (gap flux density) way up (sometimes as high as known technology
permits like in the Goto Unit drivers and some Lowthers, at 2.4T)
so they can use less wire while the Bl is high. Anyway, the problem
of flux modulation in the driver was brought up loud and clear in
Hanna and Slepian's horn paper from the mid 1920s or so. Where are
we (I mean THEY) today?
PPPPS: Still wondering what post on dynamics I wrote that those guys
were asking for. Was it any good? Happy new year to you all btw.
I've been around all the time, it's not like I ever voluntarily
unsub'ed JoeNet. Just haven't had much to add to the discussion
lately.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.unit.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \------\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone (+47)73916898 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: Old Alnico chesnut
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 16:04:56 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n154
Thomas Dunker wrote:
>
> On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Mark Donen wrote:
>
> > I was wondering if anyone would like to explain whether alnico has
> > properties making it a preferable material for driver magnets.
> >
> > My experience is that despite many other differences, my alnico based
> > speakers do something that ferrites don't, They are simply more lively. Can
> > this be explained only by their higher efficiency?
>
Snip>
Hi
Tom Dunker wrote a nice bit on the difference, I would add similar
things but said a little differently.
Firstly I would say I don't know exactly what the diferences are
quanitativly, I can't say I have actually looked, but there are several
places for the differences to arise.
Ceramic 5 and the other types used in speakers is a non-conductive
material and its BH curve (large H, small B) is such that a large area
of magnet must be used for a given area of gap while a relitivly small
thickness of magnet is used for a given airgap. The magnetic leakage of
the normal "ring" magnet is at the outer diameter, normally the magnet
overhangs the plates some to "block off" that path to some degree.
The problem is that the leakage path is a short distance and large area
so there is a lot of leakage percentage wise. When the coil is in the
gap and is conducting current it has the effect of increasing the
magnetic path (by pushing against the flux lines) in the airgap or in
other words decreasing the reluctance of that path which pushes
additional flux out the leakage path. Since the material is electrically
non-conductive and the steel plates are at best a poor electrical
conductor there is little eddy current repulsion to "hold" the flux
lines in place for ac signals. This is why a shorting ring or cap is
often used on the center pole, additionally it can by acting as a
transformer coupled shorted turn, lower the voice coil inductance.
Problems of voice coil non linearity, variable inductance with position
can be eliminated using techniques shown in patents
4,531,025 and 4,564,727 which has no voice coil
Tom, correctly points out power compression can cause 5 or 6 dB in
output loss but also a dramatic shift in Thiel Small param's which
greatly alter the systems frequency and thus transient response.
This problem can in some transducers be essentially eliminated by the
use of patent# 4,757,547
Suspension nonlinearities can also in some cases be eliminated by
the use of the configuration show in patent 4,763,358
If you wish to view these, there is a free patent server on the web:
http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/
The last 3 of these have been successfull products in the Pro Sound area
for some time with some sales in the "Home" area,
That device called a Contra can be seen at
http://www.mindspring.com/~sdinc/pages/contra.html
Alnico structures on the other hand are very different, the BH curve for
Alnico is such that a fairly small area of material is required
(supports a high "B" but has a low H) for a given area of gap but a long
length is required as it has a low H. This means that the leakage path
is usually a lot longer and current in the voice coil has less tendency
to modulate the leakage flux (thus gap flux is more constant).
As I recall, Alnico is an electrical conductor so to what ever degree it
is it also, through eddy current repulsion makes the flux lines harder
to move through the material.
Another possible acoustic effect is that the air space behind the coil
is normally larger in an alnico structure making it more compliant and
having a different resonant spectrum.
Modern drivers are very cost sensitive, you would be surprized if you
knew how cheap they are to build, even nice ones. Consistancy is also
critical. This is why (along with the lack of need in most cases)
the gap flux is relitivly low, for 1005 low carbon steel (a common top
and bottom plate material) saturation happens at about 11-12 kg and
magnet structures are generally sized so that a little of the pole tip
reaches saturation. In this way + - 10% variations in the magnet
material have very little effect in the gap flux.
The highest flux that can be supported is about 24 to 25 kg and this
requires special (read expensive) metal so only where it is really
needed (like in good compression drivers etc.) do you get gap flux that
high. Too bad there isn't such a thing as a magnetic insulator, it would
make magnetic circuit design a lot easier.
Best Regards,
Thomas Danley
Intersonics Technology Corp
=========================================================================
From: "P.A. & M. Almeflo" <sd@ljusdal.se>
Subject: RE: Old Alnico chesnut
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:58:34 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n155
Hello all,
Tom D wrote:
> If anyone has anything to add or want to criticize my attempt
> to explain, please do.
Thanks for your various mail about dynamic distortion, they are most
illustrative.
In a discussion I had with a Swedish speaker designer he mentioned his
opinion about short circuit rings in speaker motor systems:
"The short circuiting ring must have extremely low resistance if its
function should be noticeable at all.
To only copperplate the pole piece is completely without effect.
The loop resistance must be insignificant compared to Re/n2,
where n = number of turns in the voice coil.
A voice coil of 6 ohms with 50 turns must thus have a short circuiting ring
with a resistance considerable below 6/2500 = 2.4 milliohm, preferably 20
times lower."
When we are talking about dynamic behaviour and compression it is
interesting to read the Dynaudio claims in their leaflets. They say that
the parallel arrangement of the frequency curves at different input power
for the Esotar tweeter (for example) indicates that even fast 1000W peaks
do not produce any compression. When you study their curves however, you
find that between the 10W and 100W curves there are about 9 dB when there
should have been 10 dB, and between 10W and 1000W there are about 18 dB
when you should receive 20 dB. And this is for only 10 ms bursts, longer
time will of course produce much more compression.
The Dynaudio drivers are by no means worst, maybe they are even among the
best, but their unreserved claim for no compression should be contradicted.
Keep on swinging,
Per Arne
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: RE: Old Alnico chesnut
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:06:00 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n157
Hello,
For what I know, when JBL turn their magnets from alnico to ferrite, because
the shape and dimensions of the 2 magnets were very different, the result
was a large increase in second harmonics in the distortion spectrum. They
have to completely design a new shape for the pieces around the gap. Doing
this they succeed reducing H2 but they increase H3, this explains (?) the
less natural sound of their ferrite stuff.
We have now the same situation, with the new neodyme magnet.
It allows to use very small magnets, by example the JBL 2450 (neodyme)
weights 4.8 kilogram while the JBL 2445, its equivalent with a ferrite
magnet, weights 13.6 kilograms (that's nearly x 3 )
Interesting to compare for the JBL 2445J (ferrite magnet) and the JBL 2450
(neodyme magnet) the "distortion 3" versus frequency curves page 139 and 140
of the excellent book in german: "PA Lautsprecher" from H-J Hackerstaff
(thanks again to Bodo Kalthoff who gave that book to me).
While H2 is exeactly the same for both loudspeakers, mean H3 of the 2450 is
4 dB above H3 of the 2445J.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: Old Alnico chesnut
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 12:54:58 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n157
Le Cleac'h J.-M. wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> For what I know, when JBL turn their magnets from alnico to ferrite, because
> the shape and dimensions of the 2 magnets were very different, the result
> was a large increase in second harmonics in the distortion spectrum. They
> have to completely design a new shape for the pieces around the gap. Doing
> this they succeed reducing H2 but they increase H3, this explains (?) the
> less natural sound of their ferrite stuff.
>
> We have now the same situation, with the new neodyme magnet.
> It allows to use very small magnets, by example the JBL 2450 (neodyme)
> weights 4.8 kilogram while the JBL 2445, its equivalent with a ferrite
> magnet, weights 13.6 kilograms (that's nearly x 3 )
>
> Interesting to compare for the JBL 2445J (ferrite magnet) and the JBL 2450
> (neodyme magnet) the "distortion 3" versus frequency curves page 139 and 140
> of the excellent book in german: "PA Lautsprecher" from H-J Hackerstaff
> (thanks again to Bodo Kalthoff who gave that book to me).
>
> While H2 is exeactly the same for both loudspeakers, mean H3 of the 2450 is
> 4 dB above H3 of the 2445J.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
Hi
What I recall was that the switch to ceramic was strictly an economic
decision, Cobalt was in short supply and for a given strength gap, the
alnico structure was several times more expensive, enough to merit
re-tooling. So far as which effects are a result of the magnet structure
and which are due to a different physical geometry I'm not clear.
I do have a pair of alnico LE85's and 2426's to A-B and a pair of alnico
2440's and one 2450 driver to compair. Next time I have some free time
I'll set the TEF up and measure them to see what differences "stand
out".
Best Regards,
Thomas Danley
ITC
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: Oldies but,..?...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:21:59 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n543
Hi all!
I hope to gain some knowledge on the possible rejuvenating
of old tubes...I know there are some cunning tricks and
dubious methods around, but so far I haven't seen anything
I could make use of....
A was given this huge box of used 45's..both ST and balloons,'
from a tube-dealing friend. ALL duds..So now I hope to fix
atleast some of them...
(And I already had success! In the cathegory "OPEN" I
resoldered all pins.Was worth it !! Managed to put 2 clean
globes back to a good, non gassy life....)
But then there are the two cathegories left:
1.Low emission species. I cannot see that tubes with oxidecoated
filaments can gain new life, or stronger emission..Or,-are there
something that can be tried? (I once tried the method from an old
Sound Practises, but didn't get it to work...Just managed to drain
the last minor emission out of the tube in a 'very' short time,-)
Any knowledge out there??
2. Gassy species.Here I have atleast some hope. These are tubes that
often test quite good on emission, but is useless, caused by grid-
current...Is it possible to re-use the getter-deposit in an attempt
to bind up some of the impurities? This was initially done with RF
heating of the getter container, so heat must be the key-word here..
I've been thinking of Microwave owens,-but I guess the energy isn't
"focused" enough...Then I thought about the "x-mitter" inside the
owen,-how about letting it energize an outside coil, wrapped around
tube.But then I've been told that it won't work, cause the "resonnant
frequency from the owen x-mitter" simply is too high to be reached
with the coil...
How aboput a ceramics-owen, and bacing,-..or a torch-flame, heating
the glass,-or some copper-ribbons around glass, heated with current
......
Alittle enlightment of this topic, please!
All experience and knowledge welcomed,-
Thanks,A merry X-mas to all,
Regards,
Torbjoern Lien, Norway
>
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "JF" <jimfl@CyberRamp.net>
Subject: Re: Oldies but,..?...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:58:07 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n543
Torbjoern,
Most of the information I have gathered on tube rejuvination applies to
transmitting tubes using tungsten style filaments. Check out the following
website for some ideas on reviving oxide coated filaments:
http://antiqueradios.com/chrs/journal/rejuvenation.html
Please keep us informed on how it turns out - particulary any solutions for
the gassy tubes. I have a gassy mesh-plate 50 gathering dust on my display
shelf.
JF
- -----Original Message-----
From: Torbj+APg-rn Lien +ADw-mdrivekl+AEA-online.no+AD4-
To: sound+AEA-lists.io.com +ADw-sound+AEA-lists.io.com+AD4-
Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: Oldies but,..?...
+AD4-Hi all+ACE-
+AD4-
+AD4-I hope to gain some knowledge on the possible rejuvenating
+AD4-of old tubes...I know there are some cunning tricks and
+AD4-dubious methods around, but so far I haven't seen anything
+AD4-I could make use of....
+AD4-
+AD4-A was given this huge box of used 45's..both ST and balloons,'
+AD4-from a tube-dealing friend. ALL duds..So now I hope to fix
+AD4-atleast some of them...
+AD4-
+AD4-(And I already had success+ACE- In the cathegory +ACI-OPEN+ACI- I
+AD4-resoldered all pins.Was worth it +ACEAIQ- Managed to put 2 clean
+AD4-globes back to a good, non gassy life....)
+AD4-
+AD4-But then there are the two cathegories left:
+AD4-
+AD4-1.Low emission species. I cannot see that tubes with oxidecoated
+AD4-filaments can gain new life, or stronger emission..Or,-are there
+AD4-something that can be tried? (I once tried the method from an old
+AD4-Sound Practises, but didn't get it to work...Just managed to drain
+AD4-the last minor emission out of the tube in a 'very' short time,-)
+AD4-Any knowledge out there??
+AD4-
+AD4-2. Gassy species.Here I have atleast some hope. These are tubes that
+AD4-often test quite good on emission, but is useless, caused by grid-
+AD4-current...Is it possible to re-use the getter-deposit in an attempt
+AD4-to bind up some of the impurities? This was initially done with RF
+AD4-heating of the getter container, so heat must be the key-word here..
+AD4-I've been thinking of Microwave owens,-but I guess the energy isn't
+AD4AIg-focused+ACI- enough...Then I thought about the +ACI-x-mitter+ACI- inside the
+AD4-owen,-how about letting it energize an outside coil, wrapped around
+AD4-tube.But then I've been told that it won't work, cause the +ACI-resonnant
+AD4-frequency from the owen x-mitter+ACI- simply is too high to be reached
+AD4-with the coil...
+AD4-How aboput a ceramics-owen, and bacing,-..or a torch-flame, heating
+AD4-the glass,-or some copper-ribbons around glass, heated with current
+AD4-......
+AD4-Alittle enlightment of this topic, please+ACE-
+AD4-All experience and knowledge welcomed,-
+AD4-
+AD4-Thanks,A merry X-mas to all,
+AD4-Regards,
+AD4-Torbjoern Lien, Norway
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
=========================================================================
From: Bodo Kalthoff <bodo@uni-paderborn.de>
Subject: Re: Oldies but,..?...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:28:07 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n543
Hello Torbjoern,
I remember an experiment using two parabolic mirrors to generate a high
temperature at a specific point. You have place the filament of a light
bulb at the focal point of the first mirror. Then put the mirrors face
to face. If you know apply a high voltage burning the filament, the
emerging heat will generate a mirror heat source at the focus of the
second parabolic mirror for a very short time. Maybe you can place the
tube a the focal point of the second mirror. The only problem should be
the fact that glass of the tube will refract the heat radiation.
Best regards,
Bodo
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: Oldies but,..?...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:56:59 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n543
- ----------
> De : JF <jimfl@CyberRamp.net>
> A : sound@lists.io.com
> Objet : Re: Oldies but,..?...
> Date : vendredi 18 décembre 1998 14:58
>
> Torbjoern,
>
> Most of the information I have gathered on tube rejuvination applies to
> transmitting tubes using tungsten style filaments. Check out the
following
> website for some ideas on reviving oxide coated filaments:
>
> http://antiqueradios.com/chrs/journal/rejuvenation.html
>
> Please keep us informed on how it turns out - particulary any solutions
for
> the gassy tubes. I have a gassy mesh-plate 50 gathering dust on my
display
> shelf.
Hello,
There is a shop in Japan ( Tokyo I think) where you can bring a gassy tube,
even a tube with a broken glass envelop and the manager of the shop in the
instant, in front of you, change the glass envelop.
I saw pictures of that shop somewhere, don't remember where! A lot of
vacuum pumps and other devices for glass welding...
In the same shop you can choose between different tube elements (heaters,
grid , plate...) and ask for the manager to build your own designed tube...
I'll try to find infos about the shop, so if someone go in Tokyo, he can
bring with him gassy tubes and try...
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Oldies but,..?...
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:57:10 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n544
On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, JF wrote:
> +AD4-2. Gassy species.Here I have atleast some hope. These are tubes that
> +AD4-often test quite good on emission, but is useless, caused by grid-
> +AD4-current...Is it possible to re-use the getter-deposit in an attempt
> +AD4-to bind up some of the impurities? This was initially done with RF
> +AD4-heating of the getter container, so heat must be the key-word here..
I have some friends in Boston that have a high vacuum lab with an RF
heater (A big machine with a water cooled "probe"). They have tried this
and it does not work. Refiring the getter without being hooked up to a
high vacuum pump cooks out trapped gasses making matters worse.
=========================================================================
From: Soh Lieh Sieng <liehsoh@tm.net.my>
Subject: Old Messages
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 07:46:10 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n122
I only recently joined the SP mailing list. Is it possible for you to send
me all old messages on the following subjects:
Altec Voice of the Theater speakers
Onken bass cabinets
Bass cabinet designs for Altec woofers
Horn speakers
Thank you.
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: old online swamp heat
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:51:50 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n019
To all those who ordered pots from me:
I am sorry for all the delay in sending these out, it is my fault
entirely, and I will make no excuses for it. I will be shipping all the
remaining pots this Saturday morning without fail. Please forgive me for
taking so long to get these out. I will now stand in the corner
surrounded by Bose speakers driven by Soundesign stereos, playing Boy
George for one hour as punishment. Afterwards, I hope to soon find time
to begin reading and posting to the Joenet again.
P.S. I really am sorry, fellas. I hope this doesn't bruise our
relationship too much.
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Old Radio Shack Speakers
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:02:07 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n064
Does anyone remember if the older Radio Shack speakers were any good? I
have found two from about early 70's in walnut enclosures with wood grill.
Inside is 8" white cone woofer, small 1" cone tweeter, and 8" passive
radiator. Excellent condition and the guy wants $35 for the pair. Any
thoughts?
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: Petter Eneroth <ehp@ffa.se>
Subject: Old siemens tubes, Da
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 14:15:28 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n335
Does anybody know if Siemens Da tubes(dht) are useful as output tubes.
From the little I have found they seem to have Pdiss 12W and Ri 1.5k.
- --
Petter Eneroth mailto:ehp@ffa.se
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Re: Old siemens tubes, Da
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 19:26:23 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n335
Peter,
>Does anybody know if Siemens Da tubes(dht) are useful as output tubes.
>>From the little I have found they seem to have Pdiss 12W and Ri 1.5k.
The Da will make a nice little amp for sure. Expect a bit over 1W of
SE Power into a 4k5 load.
Holler if you have a pair of them you want to part with <g>
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: old stereo was: Re: Stereo flawed?
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:13:20 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
>On Oct 23, 11:09am, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
>> There is a recording of Beethoven 5 by Furtwangler (1947 DG) in which I am
>> sure that the first two movements are stereo, and the last two are mono. I
>> hear a clear L-R spread which collapses in the last two movements. It is
>> much easier for me to follow the various threads in the music in the first
>> two movements.
>
>I wonder if this might be perhaps caused by a phase reversal of all or part
>of one channel, relative to the other, on the recording itself? That would
>seem quite a recording blunder, but its not beyond the realm of the
>possible....
>
I am pretty sure that the one side is real stereo- the instrument placement
is pretty definite in the soundfield (violins on the left, celli on the
right, etc.), and the relative size of the various instruments is accurate.
What I am guessing happened is that the performance was recorded on some
leftover stereo equipment from the nazi era and when it was put on disk the
transfer engineer only mono'ed one side- not realizing it was stereo.
Probably thought that it would help the sound, which of course it would
with a true mono source. Maybe the two sides were mastered by two different
people at different times, maybe the mono lathe wasn't available for side
one- all sorts of possibilities. I just hope that the tape still exists,
and that if it's all stereo someone will notice and put it out. JDM
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: old stereo was: Re: Stereo flawed?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 05:09:10 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n086
At 6:13 PM -0700 10/24/97, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
>>On Oct 23, 11:09am, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
>>> There is a recording of Beethoven 5 by Furtwangler (1947 DG) in which I am
>>> sure that the first two movements are stereo, and the last two are mono. I
>>> hear a clear L-R spread which collapses in the last two movements. It is
>>> much easier for me to follow the various threads in the music in the first
>>> two movements.
>>
>>I wonder if this might be perhaps caused by a phase reversal of all or part
>>of one channel, relative to the other, on the recording itself? That would
>>seem quite a recording blunder, but its not beyond the realm of the
>>possible....
>>
>I am pretty sure that the one side is real stereo- the instrument placement
>is pretty definite in the soundfield (violins on the left, celli on the
>right, etc.), and the relative size of the various instruments is accurate.
>What I am guessing happened is that the performance was recorded on some
>leftover stereo equipment from the nazi era and when it was put on disk the
>transfer engineer only mono'ed one side- not realizing it was stereo.
>Probably thought that it would help the sound, which of course it would
>with a true mono source. Maybe the two sides were mastered by two different
>people at different times, maybe the mono lathe wasn't available for side
>one- all sorts of possibilities. I just hope that the tape still exists,
>and that if it's all stereo someone will notice and put it out. JDM
According to most sources, Furtwangler left no true stereo recordings--even
the Weber "Freischutz', reputed to be in stereo, is claimed by many to be
not true stereo. You could be hearing some partial "equalized" or false
stereo, depending on what master tapes were used. I could be wrong about
this, but the newest remasterings of this performance are mono throughout.
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: Andre Jute <andre@indigo.ie>
Subject: Re: old stereo was: Re: Stereo flawed?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 20:26:30 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n086
Andre
Could I butt in here with an oddity? I have always wondered about the
Bruckner Eighth recording, mvmnts 2-4 only, on Koch, which is said to be
the first stereo recording Karajan ever made, in 1944. Don't rush out to
buy it; it is not the stuff of greatness, more a novelty, with only so-so
stereo.
When did stereo recording become commercially feasible?
Andre
At 5:09 am -0500 25/10/97, Grover Gardner wrote:
>At 6:13 PM -0700 10/24/97, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
>>>On Oct 23, 11:09am, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
>>>> There is a recording of Beethoven 5 by Furtwangler (1947 DG) in which I am
>>>> sure that the first two movements are stereo, and the last two are mono. I
>>>> hear a clear L-R spread which collapses in the last two movements. It is
>>>> much easier for me to follow the various threads in the music in the first
>>>> two movements.
>>>
>>>I wonder if this might be perhaps caused by a phase reversal of all or part
>>>of one channel, relative to the other, on the recording itself? That would
>>>seem quite a recording blunder, but its not beyond the realm of the
>>>possible....
>>>
>>I am pretty sure that the one side is real stereo- the instrument placement
>>is pretty definite in the soundfield (violins on the left, celli on the
>>right, etc.), and the relative size of the various instruments is accurate.
>>What I am guessing happened is that the performance was recorded on some
>>leftover stereo equipment from the nazi era and when it was put on disk the
>>transfer engineer only mono'ed one side- not realizing it was stereo.
>>Probably thought that it would help the sound, which of course it would
>>with a true mono source. Maybe the two sides were mastered by two different
>>people at different times, maybe the mono lathe wasn't available for side
>>one- all sorts of possibilities. I just hope that the tape still exists,
>>and that if it's all stereo someone will notice and put it out. JDM
>
>According to most sources, Furtwangler left no true stereo recordings--even
>the Weber "Freischutz', reputed to be in stereo, is claimed by many to be
>not true stereo. You could be hearing some partial "equalized" or false
>stereo, depending on what master tapes were used. I could be wrong about
>this, but the newest remasterings of this performance are mono throughout.
>
>
>Grover Gardner
>groverg@bellatlantic.net
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
COMMUNICATION JUTE
- --we support pages for music lovers, writers and audiophiles at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: old stereo was: Re: Stereo flawed?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 20:59:17 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n086
At 08:26 PM 10/25/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Andre
>
>Could I butt in here with an oddity? I have always wondered about the
>Bruckner Eighth recording, mvmnts 2-4 only, on Koch, which is said to be
>the first stereo recording Karajan ever made, in 1944. Don't rush out to
>buy it; it is not the stuff of greatness, more a novelty, with only so-so
>stereo.
>
>When did stereo recording become commercially feasible?
>
>Andre
>
>
I've got the last movement of that recording, although I haven't listened
to it for years.
Regarding stereo, Blumlein experimented with it in the 30's- (Blumlein was
a true genius, a list of his inventions is quite impressive)- if I remember
correctly developed the 45-45 degree disk cutting system. He, sadly, was
killed in WW2.
Bell Labs had done some experiments in the 30's also and the results were
published on some lp's a few years ago- Stokowski&Phil. I haven't listened
to those recently either.
The nazis developed tape recording to a higher level than other places and
made stereo tape recordings like the HvK one. That is why I think that it's
possible that the Furtwangler Beethoven is, or was, recorded in stereo.
It was in the 50's that stereo recordings became commercially available.
RCA in '54, EMI around the same time- I don't know about Decca, and others.
And don't forget Fantasia- 6 channel surround sound of sorts.
JDM
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: old stereo was: Re: Stereo flawed?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 00:39:20 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
Grover Gardner wrote:
>
> At 8:26 PM +0100 10/25/97, Andre Jute wrote:
> >Andre
> >
> >Could I butt in here with an oddity? I have always wondered about the
> >Bruckner Eighth recording, mvmnts 2-4 only, on Koch, which is said to be
> >the first stereo recording Karajan ever made, in 1944. Don't rush out to
> >buy it; it is not the stuff of greatness, more a novelty, with only so-so
> >stereo.
> >
> >When did stereo recording become commercially feasible?
> >
> >Andre
>
> There are those who know more about this than I do, but my understanding is
> that, though stereo recording began in earnest about 1953-54, the first
> real commercial systems and releases began appearing about 1958. Would
> this be right, oh ye old ones? :-)
>
Grover,
Lets stick to the "old fart" description, please.
Seems like around '55 when I was still mono, and fighting the
tick..pop...tick...wow and rumble, but had a great Wharfdale system in a
humungous solid teak cabinet. Think I must have gotten interested in
girls about the time stereo hit, so I can't remember anything, except
that i switched to reel-to-reel so I didn't have to change records and
that was stereo.
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: old stereo was: Re: Stereo flawed?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 00:57:19 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
At 8:26 PM +0100 10/25/97, Andre Jute wrote:
>Andre
>
>Could I butt in here with an oddity? I have always wondered about the
>Bruckner Eighth recording, mvmnts 2-4 only, on Koch, which is said to be
>the first stereo recording Karajan ever made, in 1944. Don't rush out to
>buy it; it is not the stuff of greatness, more a novelty, with only so-so
>stereo.
>
>When did stereo recording become commercially feasible?
>
>Andre
There are those who know more about this than I do, but my understanding is
that, though stereo recording began in earnest about 1953-54, the first
real commercial systems and releases began appearing about 1958. Would
this be right, oh ye old ones? :-)
FWIW, one of the few existing *complete* stereo recordings from the WWII
period is the gorgeous Beethoven "Emperor" concerto with Walter Gieseking,
recorded in Berlin in 1944. You can hear ack-ack guns in the distance
during the quieter passages. It's available from Music and Arts here in
the US, and is really stunning--some think one of the best versions
available.
Also Acanta released a superb concert performance of the Beethoven Violin
Concerto with Ginette Neveu and Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt, from 1949, which
is clearly in stereo--so maybe Jonathan has a point about that Furtwangler
record...?
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: old stereo was: Re: Stereo flawed?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:42:36 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n089
At 12:57 AM -0500 10/26/97, Grover Gardner wrote:
>Also Acanta released a superb concert performance of the Beethoven Violin
>Concerto with Ginette Neveu and Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt, from 1949, which
>is clearly in stereo--so maybe Jonathan has a point about that Furtwangler
>record...?
Oops, I meant to say the Brahms violin concerto...
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: old stereo was: Re: Stereo flawed?
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:46:45 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n089
At 12:39 AM -0700 10/26/97, Joe Pledger wrote:
>Lets stick to the "old fart" description, please.
Agreed, Joe :-)
>Seems like around '55 when I was still mono, and fighting the
>tick..pop...tick...wow and rumble, but had a great Wharfdale system in a
>humungous solid teak cabinet. Think I must have gotten interested in
>girls about the time stereo hit, so I can't remember anything, except
>that i switched to reel-to-reel so I didn't have to change records and
>that was stereo.
Yes, afterward I thought about the reel-to-reels that were available
starting in the early 50s. Ed Coleman might want to get that Tandberg in
good shape and look around in flea markets and church thrift shops for old
Living Stereo and London tapes from the period. They can sound mighty good.
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: David Lawrence <hmdplawr@uxmail.ust.hk>
Subject: Old Tannoy Bookshelf Speaks
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:12:29 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n006
Hello everyone,
I recently obtained a pair of old Tannoy 3LZ/H speakers with 10"
"red" drivers. The sound is dynamic, but probably not as "smooth" as I
would like. I feel that the speakers would probably benefit from some
crossover restoration or upgrading. Unfortunately, however, the
crossover is encapsulated in a metal box (and I don't know what else),
which I am not ready to destroy just for experimentation. I called
Tannoy, who informed me that they no longer have the crossover
schematic. I have also heard, however, that Vacuum Tube Valley will at
some point publish an article on the 3LZ's.
Does anybody have any advice about these speakers, or even the
schematic? In the distant future I might want to try biamping them, in
which case I'd have to know the right points and slope.
Thanks for any suggestions,
David Lawrence
=========================================================================
From: David Lawrence <hmdplawr@uxmail.ust.hk>
Subject: Old Tannoy Bookshelf Speaks
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:18:30 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n006
Hello everyone,
I recently obtained a pair of old Tannoy 3LZ/H speakers with 10"
"red" drivers. The sound is dynamic, but probably not as "smooth" as I
would like. I feel that the speakers would probably benefit from some
crossover restoration or upgrading. Unfortunately, however, the
crossover is encapsulated in a metal box (and I don't know what else),
which I am not ready to destroy just for experimentation. I called
Tannoy, who informed me that they no longer have the crossover
schematic. I have also heard, however, that Vacuum Tube Valley will at
some point publish an article on the 3LZ's.
Does anybody have any advice about these speakers, or even the
schematic? In the distant future I might want to try biamping them, in
which case I'd have to know the right points and slope.
Thanks for any suggestions,
David Lawrence
=========================================================================
From: "Smith, Richard Todd" <SmithRT@lci.com>
Subject: Old Tube PA amps
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:32:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n196
anyone have any for sell? The one I was looking at was sold out from
under me.
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Old Tube PA amps
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:21:53 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n196
On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Smith, Richard Todd wrote:
> anyone have any for sell? The one I was looking at was sold out from
> under me.
>
I've got some mono jobs that would seem right for guitars. The cool one
is a Knight EL-34 unit with 2 rectifier tubes. As I remember, though,
this unit has high B+, like 700 volts, which I guess what not a problem
for the Mullard tubes. It is a "booster amp", and even
has 1/4" jack input. Volume pot too I think. It also LOOKS cool. Wish I
could find a mate for it, but... Schematic was glued to the bottom.
Never fired it up, but if I played guitar, that would be MY choice. I
have to buy some special screwdriver just to get the cage off it though.
Mono integrateds are all over the place. Maybe a Heath A-9 would be a
good choice? If you have 6L6s, I guess the other guitar players won't
laugh at you?
OH-- I have a really nifty TINY SE 6V6 amp with mike & phono inputs, and
vol. pot, tone controls too I think. This thing is like 4" x 6"! It also
works (!) and sounds pretty good! I forget the brand, but it's
forgetable. Probably a great practice amp!
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: Old Tube PA amps--for sale
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:45:24 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n197
Hi All
I have several tube PA & hifi amps for sale. Units are "as is".
Bogen M-120 120w, mic inputs, has 4 8417's
Bogen MX-60 60w, mic inputs, has 2 8417's
Bogen MO-100 100w poweramp has 4 8417's
Bogen MO-200 200w poweramp has 8 8417's (one tube broken)
Grommes 221 chassis, 40w, no tubes, xfm's ok
Bell 5630 mic inputs, has 6l6gc's
Mcintosh M-40 40w, rusty chassis, 6l6gc's xfm's ok (m150b output xfm)
2pc Krohn-Hite UF101 4 kt88-6550's ultra low distortion lab amp.
CML 2KVA output mdl-2km609a 12,4cx150 output tubes abt 300 lbs
Also
General Radio 1304 BFO oscilator and Sound apparatus level chart
recorder.
Units are linked by small chain to make swept response measurments
of amplifiers&speakers etc.
Best offers as of 2-27-98 takes it.
Tom
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Old Tube PA amps--guitar amp candidates
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:08:51 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n196
"Smith, Richard Todd" <SmithRT@lci.com> queried me thusly:
> Are these actual name brand Pa/integrated amps? Do they work? How much
> would you be willing to part for? This will be my first project and
> need it to be as easy as possible.
I don't see any reason not to look at audio/hi-fi as well as PA amps, but
then again remember I know nothing about guitars.
The Knight one is a real commercial unit. I'll try to fire it up soon.
I probably wouldn't give it away, cuz it looks so DARN COOL with that
hammertone and curved tube cage.
The tiny 6V6 unit is also a real actual name brand amp that I never heard
of, and is surely the
simplest little amp you could hope for. Also not as deadly as the big
Knight job. Only problem is that you gots to have eetsy-beetsy fingers
to get in there to swap out coupling caps etc. As I remember, it has a
6X5, a 6SN7, and a 6V6 -- tube rectification and all octals on this tiny
unit! I thought I'd set it on top of a ratshack LX-4 for the smallest
amp/speaker combo, set that on top of a mono tuner and have a "table
radio" for the news...
Suitable units turn up at hamfests a lot, and sometimes you even find
cute little 6V6 or EL-84 guitar amps with decent little speakers,
homebrews or ???
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Old Tube PA amps--guitar amp candidates
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:42:27 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n196
Rick Francis wrote:
>
> "Smith, Richard Todd" <SmithRT@lci.com> queried me thusly:
>
> > Are these actual name brand Pa/integrated amps? Do they work? How
much
> > would you be willing to part for? This will be my first project and
> > need it to be as easy as possible.
>
> I don't see any reason not to look at audio/hi-fi as well as PA amps, but
> then again remember I know nothing about guitars.
One of my favorite amps is a little PP 6V6 Bogen - I popped the input
jack into the hole where the selector switch was, did a bit of rewiring
that I more or less made up as I went along and this little puppy
bites. One of the problem with hifi stuff for guitar is that extra
frequency range. "Bass uses up all your power" I know that sounds like
really retarded, like "tube watts are bigger than transistor watts" but
is just as true in its own retarded so-stupid-that-even-morons-can-tell
kinda way.
This little amp sits on top of a full range Bell & Howell "FilmoSound"
speaker box with a 12" Jensen. Date codes out to the early 50's I
recall. The look totally pegs the retro-guage.
As part of a musical instrument the requirements are much different.
> Suitable units turn up at hamfests a lot, and sometimes you even find
> cute little 6V6 or EL-84 guitar amps with decent little speakers,
> homebrews or ???
Of course my other favorite amp is a fooking marshall.
ROn
=========================================================================
From: "Smith, Richard Todd" <SmithRT@lci.com>
Subject: Old tube radio amps for guitar
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:32:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n199
Would an old tube radio amp work for a guitar amp?
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: Olsher's capsule review of VSAC 97
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 07:07:06 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n317
http://www.blackdahlia.com/do_tip.htm#9
did I mention this?
Thanks to Dick Olsher for supporting VSAC!
Doc B.
VALVE
coming soon - www.bottlehead.com
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: ? on DAKs, Decks and mods
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:20:30 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n359
Hi All,
Well, in my quest to upgrade my CD player, I just acquired a CAL Sigma
II DAC in excellent condition at about 30% of new cost. It has a tube
output which has been replaced with a Telefunken tube. I must admit
near total ignorance when it comes to DAC and Decks and don't have the
time or energy to go out and audition new units, nor the budget for a
new unit, for that matter, nor the inclination to dig into the innards
of a player and start fiddling with the signal processing circuitry.
Other pressing matters in my life make the plug-n-play approach very
attractive.
I purchased the Sigma II on a recommendation of a fellow Joenetter, now
I need to deal with the transport mechanism so need some additional
Joenetter assistance. First, I have an older Denon DCD700 unit which is
very clean, works flawlwssly and doesn't sound all that bad on a good
CD. Unfortunately it does not have a digital output. I would like to
ask some of the CD gurus on the list whether it would be feasible and
worthwhile to add a digital output to this deck. Perhaps it could be
used as an interim transport until I come across a deck deal similar to
the DAC deal, then I could pass it down to a kid who is starting to
upgrade his miserable bottom-end Technics system. Yes I know, this is
not keeping in the spirit of plug-n-play, but it would seem that this
would be a relatively simple mod compared to upgrading the DAC portion
of a player. Rather than spend a lot of time fiddling with it myself, I
would prefer some opinions from others who are more knowledgable than I
on this subject whether it would be worthwhile to do and would
appreciate specific details on how to best accomplish the modification.
Thanks in advance for any asistance.
Also, while on the subject, would the CAL Alpha DAC be a substantial
improvement over the Sigma II. Its price new is almost twice that of
the Sigma II, but it has virtually identical specs. Or should I forget
about it and be content with the Sigma II. Opinions on the Sigma II, as
well as recommendatrions on suitable transport mechanisms, are welcomed.
Yeah I know, it isn't fitting for an engineer to puss-out so quickly,
but there are valid reasons for my not making a career out of this
project at the moment.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: ? on DAKs, Decks and mods
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:32:04 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n360
On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
> I purchased the Sigma II on a recommendation of a fellow Joenetter, now
> I need to deal with the transport mechanism so need some additional
> Joenetter assistance. First, I have an older Denon DCD700 unit which is
> very clean, works flawlwssly and doesn't sound all that bad on a good
> CD. Unfortunately it does not have a digital output. I would like to
> ask some of the CD gurus on the list whether it would be feasible and
> worthwhile to add a digital output to this deck.
It depends on whether S/PDIF is available from the decoder
or OSF chips in the player. If so, it's easy. If not, not
worth it. Get a schematic or find out which chips are used.
> Also, while on the subject, would the CAL Alpha DAC be a substantial
> improvement over the Sigma II. Its price new is almost twice that of
> the Sigma II, but it has virtually identical specs. Or should I forget
> about it and be content with the Sigma II. Opinions on the Sigma II, as
> well as recommendatrions on suitable transport mechanisms, are welcomed.
> Yeah I know, it isn't fitting for an engineer to puss-out so quickly,
> but there are valid reasons for my not making a career out of this
> project at the moment.
Jeez. Why not listen to it first?
Kal
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: ? on DAKs, Decks and mods
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:34:16 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n360
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
>
> On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
>
> > I purchased the Sigma II on a recommendation of a fellow Joenetter, now
> > I need to deal with the transport mechanism so need some additional
> > Joenetter assistance. First, I have an older Denon DCD700 unit which is
> > very clean, works flawlwssly and doesn't sound all that bad on a good
> > CD. Unfortunately it does not have a digital output. I would like to
> > ask some of the CD gurus on the list whether it would be feasible and
> > worthwhile to add a digital output to this deck.
>
> It depends on whether S/PDIF is available from the decoder
> or OSF chips in the player. If so, it's easy. If not, not
> worth it. Get a schematic or find out which chips are used.
Yeah, that is part of the problem, getting a schematic. This unit is
several years old and I am not sure how difficult getting the schematic
would be. I thought perhaps someone on the list may have already
traversed this path and drawn conclusions on whether adding digital
outputs to an older Denon unit it is a feasible thing to do before I
expend much effort or expense on it.
> > Also, while on the subject, would the CAL Alpha DAC be a substantial
> > improvement over the Sigma II. Its price new is almost twice that of
> > the Sigma II, but it has virtually identical specs. Or should I forget
> > about it and be content with the Sigma II. Opinions on the Sigma II, as
> > well as recommendatrions on suitable transport mechanisms, are welcomed.
> > Yeah I know, it isn't fitting for an engineer to puss-out so quickly,
> > but there are valid reasons for my not making a career out of this
> > project at the moment.
>
> Jeez. Why not listen to it first?
Well, since my present deck doesn't have digital outputs, it may be some
time before I have the opportunity to give it a listen and by then it
will be too late to act on the Alpha unit. Anyway, I will probably just
stick with the Sigma II for the time being, its gotta be a lot better
than what I have been using and probably is better than some of the
other links in the system.
DM
>
> Kal
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: ? on DAKs, Decks and mods
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:09:59 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n360
On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
> Kalman Rubinson wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
> >
> Yeah, that is part of the problem, getting a schematic. This unit is
> several years old and I am not sure how difficult getting the schematic
> would be. I thought perhaps someone on the list may have already
> traversed this path and drawn conclusions on whether adding digital
> outputs to an older Denon unit it is a feasible thing to do before I
> expend much effort or expense on it.
If you can open it up and give me a list of the big chips,
I can probably figure out the feasibility.
> > Jeez. Why not listen to it first?
>
> Well, since my present deck doesn't have digital outputs, it may be some
> time before I have the opportunity to give it a listen and by then it
> will be too late to act on the Alpha unit.
By then, both will be old hat.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Eric Barbour <svetengr@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ondes Martenot
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:34:16 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n467
Henry Platt wrote:
> Could anyone tell me something about the construction and circuitry of
> this electronic instrument, reputed to have a seven octave range, used in
> the compositions of Edgard Varese (Cawn't find my accent grave) and Olivier
> Messaien. Also, if anyone might know, Where might one get their hands on one
> in this day and age?
There is some information here:
http://www.obsolete.com/120_years/
I think I've got a schematic
somewhere.....hmmm......
You want to BUY one???
Hope you're wealthy........ :)
=========================================================================
From: "Henry Platt" <hnplatt@massed.net>
Subject: Ondes Martinot
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:47:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n466
Greetings, Joes and Josephines,
Could anyone tell me something about the construction and circuitry of
this electronic instrument, reputed to have a seven octave range, used in
the compositions of Edgard Varese (Cawn't find my accent grave) and Olivier
Messaien. Also, if anyone might know, Where might one get their hands on one
in this day and age?
Reid? Are ya listening?
Regards, Henry Platt
=========================================================================
From: flegal@allaban.fr (Francois Yves Le Gal)
Subject: Re: Ondes Martinot
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:59:45 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n467
At 23:47 23/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
> Could anyone tell me something about the construction and circuitry of
>this electronic instrument, reputed to have a seven octave range, used in
>the compositions of Edgard Varese (Cawn't find my accent grave) and Olivier
>Messaien. Also, if anyone might know, Where might one get their hands on one
>in this day and age?
Re. Ondes Martenot, have a look at the following :
http://www.chez.com/cslevine/Ondes/WAVES.html (in pidgin English, thanks to
an automated translation)
http://www.chez.com/ciom/CIOM.htm (in French)
AFAICT, there are no blueprints nor schematics available today. The CIOM
tries to jhave some ondes rebuilt from scratch or restored, but that's all.
François Yves Le Gal Allaban WebSystems Tél : +33 (0)1 4106 9500
Directeur Associé 43, rue Raspail Fax : +33 (0)1 4756 0305
flegal@allaban.fr F-92300 Levallois-Perret URL : http://www.allaban.fr
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: One 2nd Hand Rock in London
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:43:50 PST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n482
Hi all,
Only in case someone wants a nice Table and is in/near London, the Cash
Converters Edmonton (Fore Street) has got a Rock + Excalibur Arm for (I
think) 295 UK Pound. The Cartridge is noting to look at and the table is
slightly marked, but I think it nevertheless might be worthwhile a look.
I'd buy it myself, but I decided to keep the Oracle and I have at the
moment three more Tables around.... ;-)
Kind regards Thorsten.
======================================
e-mail:
Thorsten@tnt-audio.com
Visit TNT-Audio on the Web - the only advertising
free audio web-zine.
http://www.tnt-audio.com
======================================
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: One channel finished
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:31:54 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n114
Well, I've got one channel up and running and it's a miracle--hardly any
noise at all. I've got a 26 running nice and hot, 90 Vp, 8ma, at the
front, cap-coupled to the input pot, then another 26 running wide open
directly coupled to the choke-loaded 46, and then a cap to the VV52. Both
26s have dc filament supplies consisting of a choke and a pair of enormous
caps. The gain is, well, plenty, and the sound is very fast and dynamic.
The breadboards are 18 x 20" and they're pretty full :-). Girlfriend says
from the top it looks like a U2 photo of an Iraqi biological warfare
manufactory. Anyway, many thanks to all for the suggestions. I'll have to
go back and try that 40 again using some of the helpful hints I've picked
up, but for now I'll work on this topology.
I'll keep everyone posted on the developments. In the meantime, if any
DC-area Joenetters want to stop by and take a test ride and offer some
comments, I'd be delighted to have their input.
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: one door closes, another one...
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:50:52 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n403
Stick around if you can, jc. You'll make one hell of an amateur!
Besides, what will we do without you around to pull our heads out of our
asses when we can't see what we're doing anymore?
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: jc morrison <jcm@eclipse.net>
Subject: one door closes, another one...
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:57:12 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n403
hmmm.
this is so weird. but i suppose i should just say it. i guess i'm
closing my business. i've been struggling for some time now, between
finishing up the big amps and ribbon speakers for dick sequerra, and the
three commissions i've had for this year, there's been very little money
and lots of bills. the saying comes to mind, "something not worth doing
is not worth doing well". i'm pretty much ruined. i've had a great run,
in the last four years i've built four cost no object systems,
preamps/amps/speakers, more than most designers ever get to do in a
lifetime... the most expensive one took me and dick 3 years! i'm
laughing at myself just thinking about... a magnificent system. we lost
so much money. i had so much fun and i learned so much. much of the
stuff i've been able to share here on the list has come about because of
my wacky little design shop and the wonderful wacky people who have
hired me. anyway, i'm in the strange and not so unexpected position of
rejoining the working class. i start a temp job at an architecture firm
tomorrow. its so bizarre! anyway, after i get somewhat back on my feet,
it'll be interesting to rejoin this group as an non-professional. maybe
i'll actually be able to build some stuff for myself?! thats a pleasant
thought... anyway, i'll be off the list for a little while (my phone
gets shut off tomorrow or the next day, i really don't care anymore...),
but when i get back, you little upstarts better not be bitching about
which 300B to use or which goddamn cap is better than the other goddamn
one you all wish you had... diy audiophiles, hrmmmpf.
jc
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: one door closes, another one...
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:12:52 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n403
At 10:57 PM -0700 8/26/98, jc morrison wrote:
>hmmm.
>this is so weird. but i suppose i should just say it. i guess i'm
>closing my business.
VERY sorry to see you leave us. I'm watching a friend who builds custom
systems go through the same struggle right now. Hopefully in a short while
you'll be able to find a balance that will let you pay the bills and do
what you love and are so good at. Best wishes for now, but I know it's
only temporary and you'll be back with us soon.
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: one door closes, another one...
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:37:07 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n403
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:57:12 -0700, jc morrison <jcm@eclipse.net>
wrote:
>anyway, i'll be off the list for a little while...
Don't be a stranger.
Looking through my folder of saved messages from Joenet, I notice that
the majority are from jc and Lynno.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: one door closes, another one...
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:20:15 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n405
At 10:57 PM -0700 8/26/98, jc morrison wrote:
hmmm. this is so weird. but i suppose i should just say it. i guess i'm
closing my business.
> VERY sorry to see you leave us. I'm watching a friend who builds custom
> systems go through the same struggle right now. Hopefully in a short while
> you'll be able to find a balance that will let you pay the bills and do
> what you love and are so good at. Best wishes for now, but I know it's
> only temporary and you'll be back with us soon.
Hi JC,
I agree sincerely with Grover, who I am sure speaks for many of us.
Your stream of consciousness contributions have been an inspiration, and
the veracity and generosity of your list responses will remain a legend.
We always knew that behind the wu and the impassioned streams you had
actually done it all, and listened to the effects. None of this
intellectualising bullshit, you did it. And that primer was just
fantastic.
I'd be surprised if some exalted high end manufacturer would not be
interested in taking you on.
Good luck,
Hugh
- --
-== Hugh R. Dean ==-
aspen@alphalink.com.au
Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: Re: one door closes, another one...
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:17:51 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n407
At 06:50 PM 8/28/98 -0600, Douglas Purl wrote:
>Anent the reluctant metamorphosis of the J. C., Superstar: What and where
>is his primer? Bet he uses dark gray under his dark soild colors and light
grey or white as a base coat for the lighter candies and pearl ,,,,, I
don't know how he get those gray reds and yellows in his flames
>
>Alas, how many good, great, or honorable individuals in audio have been
>forced to earn a living elsewhere. like louis jordon said in his hit tune
I believe in music .......WHO KNOWS
>
>Doug Purl
>
I talked with J today and not to worry , everything is positive
Bill Gardner
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: one door closes, another one...
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:50:16 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n407
Anent the reluctant metamorphosis of the J. C., Superstar: What and where
is his primer?
Alas, how many good, great, or honorable individuals in audio have been
forced to earn a living elsewhere.
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: "Martin E. von Lindenberg" <mvon@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: one door closes, another one...
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:12:25 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n407
>At 10:57 PM -0700 8/26/98, jc morrison wrote:
>
>hmmm. this is so weird. but i suppose i should just say it. i guess i'm
>closing my business.
>
Hi J.C.,
I just wanted to add that as a lurker here, yours were among the posts that
I particularly looked forward to. Your impassioned, no B.S., and no
circuitry religion approach was a constant reminder to examine
presumptions, rather than accepting them as givens.
Best wishes, and I hope to keep reading you.
Martin
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@orion.it.luc.edu>
Subject: one final test
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 23:02:59 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n483
I'm really sorry about all the testing annoyance, but I've been trying to
post to the list for a week and a half to no avail!
Tom
- ----------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana
773.528.0882 Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America - Chicago Representative
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: One minute made microphone pramplifier
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:21:57 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n374
Hello,
Having some time to spend on audio last week end I was thinking of trying
to locate the central frequency of some harshness given by my bass
loudspeaker in a very narrow band I hear when listening to women voices.
I wanted also to locate the source of that harshness on the loudspeaker.
I had the idea to build a microphone pramplifier that I could used with my
scope and my distortion meter.
I designed the preamp around zero biased 2SK170 Jfets. As the preamp
amplifies by 50 the noise level on the DC line, I preferred to use a DC
supply made with 5x 4.5 volts alcaline batteries.
But I didn't have any microphone to use. So what I did: I removed the small
loudspeaker (diameter = 15 mm) from one Aiwa headphon (you know the kind of
thing you put in your ears).
I didn't get enough time to optimize the thing, the supsension of the
microphone is only done by the wires (silvered copper + teflon).
Looking at the whole frequency response of my bass loudspeaker (pretty good
BTW) I think there is some attenuation at -12dB/octave below 200Hz given by
that set up..
You can see the ASCII schematics (set your screen in courier font please):
o-----------o----------o 23 Volt
| |
2200ohms 2200ohms
| |
o-----o o---1microF--o Output
| | |
| 1microF |
| | |
D | D 2 x
o--------o-----G o-----G 2SK170 Jfets
| | S | S
Microphone 100k | 100k |
| | | | |
o--------o-----o-----o-----o---------o Ground
Well, the whole thing gives pretty good results, I was able to make
measurement distortions and to locate several narrow frequency bands inside
which the H3 is way too much high.
605 Hertz: H3 emitted between the membrane and a rocket nose like a phase
plug on the center of my bass loudspeaker
1065 Hertz: H3 emitted by the half-tube suspension.
I think to put some flanges as explained in Jean Hiraga's book Les
Hauts-Parleurs to remove the bad behavior of the half-tube suspension.
I still don't know what to do to reduce the H3 due to the rocket nose
(suppress it, mask it ?)
thanks for any idea...
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: One more comment on the Linaeum
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:16:11 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n283
Hi All,
Well, not wanting to influence anyone to rush out and buy Linaeums, I
thought I would make a few more comments after having listened for a
while. I played them alone for a couple of days, going about, marveling
at how good the little things sounded. I reshuffled the stack today, so
to speak, the speaker stack that is. I had been using a pair of JBL
L99s I had bought a the flea makret for thirty bucks for speaker stands
for the Tannoys. Well, I refoamed their woofers a week or so ago, but
hadn't gotten around to giving them a fair listen. For those who are
not familiar, the L99 is a large bookshelf system that uses the JBL LE14
woofer and a little two inch cone tweeter. It still beats the hell out
of me how they get a combination such as that to sound as good as they
do. Anyway, I placed them on top of the Tannoy cabinets, on their side,
and the Lineaums on top, upright. The Linaeums seem to sound better up
high, above seated ear level. Well, to make a long story short, they
don't hold a candle to the old L99s. I am not claiming that the L99s
are an outstanding speaker, just had them handy for comparison. I
suspect that many have heard them, so they make a good reference for
comparison. Those old guys did sound pretty darn good though, much
better than before. Perhaps they like being on their sides and I must
have lucked out with their positioning, or something.
Anyway, the bottom line is, that by comparison, the little Linaeums
didn't have a chance and I think my opening comment expressed it best,
and I quote "they are pretty good little pussy speakers" and that's
about it. After listening and comparing, their main weakness seems to
be a lack of midrange and punch. But then this may only be my
preference. Others may consider this desirable, esp in an apartment, or
the like. They seem to sort of compress the signal, lacking dynamics.
They use a polyroplene woofer and I just plain don't like the sound of
polyproplyne, at least nothing that I have heard so far. It just
doesn't seem to have that "alive" sound. And don't expect them to
reproduce an orchestra at full tilt, unless you are in a fairly small
room. When switching to the JBLs, the midrange came alive and projected
out in comparison while the Linaeums seemed a bit masked, or recessed.
And the bass had a lot more punch, as one would expect from a much
larger, heavier driver. The JBLs are considerably more efficient. So,
I would have to go back to my initial assessment. That they would be
fine for smaller listening rooms, a den, a dormitory room, a bedroom,
background music, a motor home, etc., but I would not recommend them for
main speakers, unless for a small studio apt where listening levels must
be kept relatively low. I would be hard pressed to pay anything like
the list price of $379. Maybe a hundred and fifty bucks, but not list
price, being the cheapskate that I am.
Anyway, I wanted to reiterate these comments, lest I unduly influence
anyone to go out and spend their hard earned cash for these things and
be less than satisfied. For a seven inch speakers they do fairly well,
just don't expect them to keep up with much larger, heavier, more
efficient speakers. As long as you don't compare them with such, you
can convince yourself that they sound pretty good, your ear seems to
adapt.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: One more ebay auction
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:08:06 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n444
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=33885580
A cool 1958 HiFi handbook.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
S.G.
- --
Visit TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude
Also check out Smoke Free Youth!
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
=========================================================================
From: Fred Volz <fcv@emotiveaudio.com>
Subject: Re: one more try
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:27:18 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n320
Richard C Nevill wrote:
>
> Earlier I sent a post with subject:test.
> Now is anyone reading this one?
> please be patient, it appears that some of us may be able to read the list
> but not post to it. Of course if you can't read this then I sure am
> wasting my time :-)
>
> Cheers
> Richard Nevill
Seems to be working.
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: one more try
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:38:07 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n320
Earlier I sent a post with subject:test.
Now is anyone reading this one?
please be patient, it appears that some of us may be able to read the list
but not post to it. Of course if you can't read this then I sure am
wasting my time :-)
Cheers
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: "Jeff Brouwer"<jeff_brouwer_at_crc-tmd@mail.crc.com>
Subject: Re: one more try
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 17:27:59 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n320
Richard--I had this problem a few weeks ago, re-subscribing to the
list cured the problem.
-jeff
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: one more try
Author: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca> at Internet
Date: 6/25/98 2:38 PM
Earlier I sent a post with subject:test.
Now is anyone reading this one?
please be patient, it appears that some of us may be able to read the list
but not post to it. Of course if you can't read this then I sure am
wasting my time :-)
Cheers
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: Steve Fellini <steve@helix.nih.gov>
Subject: Re: one more try [*test*]
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:44:39 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n320
Hi Richard,
Your post appeared on the list.
I think I might be having the same problem -- I wonder if this will
show up.
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: One-of-akind components
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 19:47:55 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n245
Hi all,
Specs were recently posted here for the UTC S-30 filter choke. I have
had one sitting about for some time, but did not have the specs, so this
was of considerable interest. It seems like a very nice choke for a
small monoblock amp, ideal for the PP 6B4 amps in the works. So, if
anyone has one they could be talked into parting with (either sell or
trade) please let me know.
I also have a one-only NOS Peerless R5090A power transformer that would
be nice to find a mate for.
And while we are on the subject, I have a one-only Chicago filter choke
RH-1540, a small, potted, 15 henry, 40 ma choke.
Since I am on a roll, I also have a one-only JBL 2218H 8 inch midrange
that could use a mate, or I might be willing to sell this one.
And there is the just-acquired, one-only UTC LS56 output transformer in
need of a mate. Or, would trade for a LS55 or LS57 (w/o the modulator
winding).
Well, that should do it for now. Thanks.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: JIM_FLOWERS@HP-USA-om24.om.hp.com
Subject: One pair of Globe 45, SOLD
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:07:50 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n132
Joes,
Thank you very much to all who responded. The 45s will have a new
home.
Thanks Again,
JF
jim_flowers@hp.com
=========================================================================
From: "Nilson, Bruce" <NilsonBruce@FCB.COM>
Subject: One-up-man-shit
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 12:23:00 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n082
I too am tired of the juvenile tone of some posts (as in the subject
header
of this post).
But I'm really sick of fiction trying to be passed off as fact and
people who
encourage possible lawbreaking.
Correction, clarification and enlightenment are always appreciated.
As well as wacky opinions.
Bruce Nilson
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Ongaku Copies and lying 211
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:31:17 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n029
Okay Gang,
Having heard the Ongaku at the HiFi 97 Show,
I can only say I want one. But I have some
gripes.
The Price, at least two zeros too much for my taste.
The exibitionist look (come'on the two big Boys
exposed never mind the possible risk to kids from
1200 Volt HT).
So chatting with some of the folks at the Audio-Note
room someone reconed I could get most of the stuff
into their larger Chassis from their normal UK
Series (they sell them here even the Copper ones).
However, the 211 would never fit standing up.
Has anyone got any Ideas as to have them horizontal?
Has anyone on the list build a "budget" Ongaku (Copper
X-Formers and so on)?
Any input is welcome.
Later Thorsten.
=========================================================================
From: Guido Tent <gtent@ehv.sc.philips.com>
Subject: Re: Ongaku Copies and lying 211
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:49:07 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n029
Hi there,
Audio Note sells everything, as far as I know.
Mounting the 211 in horizontal position is not prefered. I had experience
with a prototype containing 300b, and due to a practical set-up, I mounted
them horizontally. I was surprised to find that the sound increased when the
300b's came upright
I think the grid position changes wrt the anode, so changing the electrical
behaviour
To my experience a 211 is a bigger challenge then the 300b (i.e. it harder
to get good sound from a 211). Maybe a 211 has more potential, I don't know,
but now I'm having 16 watts from my 300b I'm more then happy
One problem is the OPTX which has some 4 times the impedance of the 300b, so
the capacitance hits you ! I heard that kondo's transformer is even 16
k-ohm, what a job !
If I could I would load a penthode with a bloody high impedance (100 k-ohm).
Would that sound the same as a triode ?
Guido
At 14:31 18-09-97 +0100, you wrote:
>Okay Gang,
>
>Having heard the Ongaku at the HiFi 97 Show,
>I can only say I want one. But I have some
>gripes.
>
>The Price, at least two zeros too much for my taste.
>
>The exibitionist look (come'on the two big Boys
>exposed never mind the possible risk to kids from
>1200 Volt HT).
>
>So chatting with some of the folks at the Audio-Note
>room someone reconed I could get most of the stuff
>into their larger Chassis from their normal UK
>Series (they sell them here even the Copper ones).
>
>However, the 211 would never fit standing up.
>
>Has anyone got any Ideas as to have them horizontal?
>
>Has anyone on the list build a "budget" Ongaku (Copper
>X-Formers and so on)?
>
>Any input is welcome.
>
>Later Thorsten.
>
>
>
" 640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herin are my personal ones and do not in
any way reflect opinions or policies of my employer.
Guido Tent
Engineer Electro Magnetic Compatibility
Philips Semiconductors Systems Laboratory Eindhoven (PS-SLE)
Building BE303, (Hurksestraat 19)
P.O.Box 218, 5600MD Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-40-27 24553
fax : +31-40-27 22764
- - Let's make things better ! -
E-mail: guido.tent@ehv. sc.philips.com
Seri : gtent@nlsce1
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@shore.net>
Subject: Re: Ongaku Copies and lying 211
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:52:11 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n030
At 02:31 PM 9/18/97 +0100,
Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enh wrote:
>Okay Gang,
>
>Having heard the Ongaku at the HiFi 97 Show,
>I can only say I want one. But I have some
>gripes.
>
>The Price, at least two zeros too much for my taste.
>
>The exibitionist look (come'on the two big Boys
>exposed never mind the possible risk to kids from
>1200 Volt HT).
>
>So chatting with some of the folks at the Audio-Note
>room someone reconed I could get most of the stuff
>into their larger Chassis from their normal UK
>Series (they sell them here even the Copper ones).
>
>However, the 211 would never fit standing up.
>
>Has anyone got any Ideas as to have them horizontal?
>
>
To quote "The RCA Transmitting Tubes" TT-5:
"...may be mounted in vertical position, base down, or in horizontal
position with pins 1 and 3 in vertical plane."
JL
=========================================================================
From: Guido Tent <gtent@ehv.sc.philips.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): Ongaku Copies and lying 211
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:10:04 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n034
At 11:42 22-09-97 +0100, you wrote:
>Guido,
>
>> Audio Note sells everything, as far as I know.
>
>I know. But thanX anyway.
OK
>> To my experience a 211 is a bigger challenge then the 300b (i.e. it harder
>> to get good sound from a 211). Maybe a 211 has more potential, I don't
>know,
>> but now I'm having 16 watts from my 300b I'm more then happy
>
>Single 300B or PSE?
Single, 5% thd
>> One problem is the OPTX which has some 4 times the impedance of the 300b,
>so
>> the capacitance hits you ! I heard that kondo's transformer is even 16
>> k-ohm, what a job !
>
>Again, I think AN sells a Copper-Version of that thingey.
As far as I know this one is 10 k, Yes they sell the silver unit, but this
one costs 18.500 pound
>My "fear" is the
>1200 Volt +B. Does it take safely lethat Voltages to sound good?
400 V for a 300b can also kill you. You have to take care anyhow, allthough
the advantage of 1200 V is that you feel the E-field (the hairs on your arm)
before you feel the current
>I did not like any of the 300B based Amp's at the HiFi 97 Show as much as
>I liked any of the Big boys (211, 845.... et al).
Oh ? So they did a good job. Or maybe we are already so bored by the 300b
that we are into 211 now ?
How is your flu ?
Guido
>Later Thorsten.
>
>
>
" 640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herin are my personal ones and do not in
any way reflect opinions or policies of my employer.
Guido Tent
Engineer Electro Magnetic Compatibility
Philips Semiconductors Systems Laboratory Eindhoven (PS-SLE)
Building BE303, (Hurksestraat 19)
P.O.Box 218, 5600MD Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-40-27 24553
fax : +31-40-27 22764
- - Let's make things better ! -
E-mail: guido.tent@ehv. sc.philips.com
Seri : gtent@nlsce1
=========================================================================
From: E Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Ongaku (was Music and parafeed?)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n235
At 11:35 PM 3/28/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>>I also like
>>>to see a wide open top like out to 200K (-3dB). High turns ratios
>>>also enhance the "strength" of the sound. More later.
>
>Mmmh. I do not need that bandwidth. Think 50 k is enough. An Ongaku does
>not come far above 30 k............
>
The one reviewed here in Portland, OR, tested 3db down at 12khz. I cannot
remember exactly what power rating it was tested at, but I seem to remember
it was
1 watt. But, interestingly enough, most of the folks who heard it though it
was a
- -hair- on the bright side.(upper mids, that is, possibly due to the HF
roll-off)
This is also a characteristic I have noticed in 211's, so I cannot draw any
conclusions from the freq response, or the fact that the amp used silver wire.
One of the best sounding amps I have ever heard, as far as sheer dynamics and
low level detail. The amp is not "warm sounding", however. internal construction
was very straightforward. But,I was dismayed at the use of $4 chinese
sockets in an
amp with such a high price tag.
Ed. B
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: onken
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:10:01 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n194
The article also covers the normal Onken, which ideally suited to the 416...
Dale.Simon@ps.net wrote:
> I just recieved SP#4 and ... yes I'm about 10 issues behind.
> Anyway, there is a brief article on the Petite Onken with plans.
> However this design is optimized for the 414 which is a 12 inch
> speaker. Does anyone know if plans exist which are optimized
> for a 15 inch speaker like a 416? Or maybe a 420A?
> Much thanks,
>
> Dale Simon
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: Dale.Simon@ps.net
Subject: onken
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 9:56:00 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n194
I just recieved SP#4 and ... yes I'm about 10 issues behind.
Anyway, there is a brief article on the Petite Onken with plans.
However this design is optimized for the 414 which is a 12 inch
speaker. Does anyone know if plans exist which are optimized
for a 15 inch speaker like a 416? Or maybe a 420A?
Much thanks,
Dale Simon
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Onken and Horn?
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 15:13:10 -0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n243
Joes,
in the last issue of the german speaker builder magazine
Klang & Ton (3/98) there was a very interesting review
on some high frequency horn/driver combinations.
One of the tested drivers/horns was the DE25-8/ME45 from the
italian company B&C. This unit measured very good and the
price is acceptable at about $350 for two drivers with horns.
I have a pair of Altec 414 woofers and wonder if it is possible
to use the above hf horn together with the petite Onken in a
biamping configuration with an active crossover.
It would be nice if some of you more knowledgeable Joes could have
a look at the diagrams on my homepage (http://home.t-online.de/home/mhuber)
and give me some hints if and how it can be done.
Regards
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:27:05 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
> De : Manfred Huber <MHuber@t-online.de>
> A : JoeNet <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Objet : Onken and Horn?
> Date : vendredi 3 avril 1998 18:13
Manfred Huber wrote:
> in the last issue of the german speaker builder magazine
> Klang & Ton (3/98) there was a very interesting review
> on some high frequency horn/driver combinations.
>
> One of the tested drivers/horns was the DE25-8/ME45 from the
> italian company B&C. This unit measured very good and the
> price is acceptable at about $350 for two drivers with horns.
>
> I have a pair of Altec 414 woofers and wonder if it is possible
> to use the above hf horn together with the petite Onken in a
> biamping configuration with an active crossover.
>
> It would be nice if some of you more knowledgeable Joes could have
> a look at the diagrams on my homepage
(http://home.t-online.de/home/mhuber)
> and give me some hints if and how it can be done.
Hello Manfred,
I just gave a look to your homepage.
Here are few coments I can give about the datas and the curves of the
DE25-8ME45:
The recommended frequency band by the builder is 0.8 to 19 kHz.
Looking at the frequency response curve we see an acoustical cut-off of the
horn around 850.
IMHO this horn should be used above 1300Hz to avoid the driver to be used
in the most reactive part of the curve.
In the same way you can see two large peaks of impedance on the impedance
curve one around 680Hz, the other one around 1800Hz. IMHO it is never good
to have large impedance peaks within the used frequency range of a
compression driver (note: Altec 807 and other similar compression drivers
have also a peak of impedance around 2000Hz and they can give nevertheless
good results, in fact it depends a lot of the amplifier...)
The frequency curve shows around 4000Hz a small bump that seems negligeible
at the first look but is also more important on the waterfall diagram. This
is often correlated with a peak on the distortion curve. It can be due also
to reflected waves by the mouth of the horn toward the throat.
In a similar fashion, the extended response in the highs (more than
20000Hz), seems when we look at the waterfall correlated to a kind of
ringing (the decay at frequency above 10000Hz is larger than the decay at
5000Hz.
The directivity of that horn seems a bit too high also, beaming begins
since 3500Hz.
Well for the price it is worth to try that little driver.
If I have to use it it will be most probably for high mids, between 5000Hz
and 10000Hz where the overall measurements are pretty good.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: SSell71096 <SSell71096@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 20:44:21 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
What are Onkens - petite, grande or otherwise?
tia,
dave
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 21:06:44 -0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
Jean-Michel,
>I just gave a look to your homepage.
>Here are few coments I can give about the datas and the curves of the
>DE25-8ME45:
Thank you for your time!
>In the same way you can see two large peaks of impedance on the impedance
>curve one around 680Hz, the other one around 1800Hz. IMHO it is never good
>to have large impedance peaks within the used frequency range of a
>compression driver (note: Altec 807 and other similar compression drivers
>have also a peak of impedance around 2000Hz and they can give nevertheless
>good results, in fact it depends a lot of the amplifier...)
I guess these impedance maximas can be EQed out by two RLC series resonant
circuits in front of the driver. Is this right?
>The frequency curve shows around 4000Hz a small bump that seems negligeible
>at the first look but is also more important on the waterfall diagram. This
>is often correlated with a peak on the distortion curve. It can be due also
>to reflected waves by the mouth of the horn toward the throat.
Is there a chance that this are structural resonances of the cast aluminium
horn? In this case then damping the back side of the horn may help.
>The directivity of that horn seems a bit too high also, beaming begins
>since 3500Hz.
I think the beaming is the reason why the response doesn't fall. One can not
have both at the same time. Right?
>Well for the price it is worth to try that little driver.
Do you think this horn can be coupled to a petite Onken to build a half way
decent System? Or should I forget about it?
Regards
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Snoopy" <tcma@netvigator.com>
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 07:51:34 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
Dear Manfred Huber,
Quite interested in the DE25-8/ME45 drivers/horns from the B&C Company.
Where can I acquire them?
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
T.C. MA
Email : tcma@netvigator.com
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:27:28 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
- ----------
> De : Manfred Huber <MHuber@t-online.de>
> A : JoeNet <sound@deliverator.io.com>; lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr
<lecleach@cgis0.ensmp.fr>
> Objet : Re: Onken and Horn?
> Date : samedi 4 avril 1998 00:06
Manfred wrote:
> I guess these impedance maximas can be EQed out by two RLC series
resonant
> circuits in front of the driver. Is this right?
Well, in theory you can flatten the published impedance curve.
In the past I tried such a use of a resonant circuits. The results was some
benefits about linearity but also some loose in naturalness of the sound.
I spoke to someone who know more theory than me on loudspeakers and who
told me that we have to conceive those impedance peaks as dynamic =
changing characteristics and not as statics characteristics of the driver.
He tried to explain to me (I don't know if I still understand correctly the
phenomenon) that depending upon output level, temperature of the coil and
so on, the peak varies both in amplitude and frequency.
May be this explain the difficulty to use such resonant circuits.
> Is there a chance that this are structural resonances of the cast
aluminium
> horn? In this case then damping the back side of the horn may help.
Yes it can be.
> >The directivity of that horn seems a bit too high also, beaming begins
> >since 3500Hz.
>
> I think the beaming is the reason why the response doesn't fall. One can
not
> have both at the same time. Right?
except in multicellular or in sectorial horns (see Harry Olson's
"Acoustical Engineering").
> >Well for the price it is worth to try that little driver.
> Do you think this horn can be coupled to a petite Onken to build a half
way
> decent System? Or should I forget about it?
For a first step I think you can try it.
Probably the relay frequency range between the Onken and the DE25-8/ME45
will give you hard time to optimize you should try to use different
frequencies for the low-pass and the high -pass. I recommand yoy to use
800Hz for a 18dB (=3 rd order) Butterworth crossover for the low-pass (=
for the Onken) and 1000 Hz for a 18dB Butterworth crossover for the
high-pass. In such conditions when the drivers are time aligned (the phase
being reversed for the DE25-8/ME45) both the axis level and the power level
will be in a range less than +1 / -.5 dB. Also this allows to use the
DE25-8 in better conditions.
Best regards.
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 14:13:03 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
Snoopy,
>Quite interested in the DE25-8/ME45 drivers/horns from the B&C Company.
>Where can I acquire them?
Al I know is that B&C is an italian company and that it s products are sold
here in Germany by:
A/S Gehaeusebau GmbH
Emil-Rohrmann -Str. 16
58239 Schwerte
Germany
Phone: 49- 2304-94235-0
Fax: 49-2304-45180
I hope it helps.
Regards
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 14:27:58 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
Dave,
>What are Onkens - petite, grande or otherwise?
All I know about the Onken bass enclosures is from the article in
Sound Practices Vol.1:#4. I m sure that Jean-Michel and others out there have some
first hand experience with the Onkens and maybe someone will jump in and tell us
more about the Onkens.
Basically the Onkens are bas reflex enclosures designed by the Onken company in
Japan. The original Onken enclosures are equipped with proprietary woofers also
made by Onken. The french journal L Audiophile promoted the Onken enclosures in the
western world and suggested to use them with Altec woofers. The above mentioned
article in SP describes two different Onken style enclosures:
Classic Onken: outside dimension (HxWxD): 95x80x55cm, 15 inch Altec 416-8B
Petite Onken: 85x65x45cm, 12 inch Altec 414-8B
Regards
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 14:47:49 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
Jean Michel,
>For a first step I think you can try it.
>Probably the relay frequency range between the Onken and the DE25-8/ME45
>will give you hard time to optimize you should try to use different
>frequencies for the low-pass and the high -pass. I recommand yoy to use
>800Hz for a 18dB (=3 rd order) Butterworth crossover for the low-pass (=
>for the Onken) and 1000 Hz for a 18dB Butterworth crossover for the
>high-pass. In such conditions when the drivers are time aligned (the phase
>being reversed for the DE25-8/ME45) both the axis level and the power level
>will be in a range less than +1 / -.5 dB. Also this allows to use the
>DE25-8 in better conditions.
Thanks for this suggestion. I seriously think about taking the risk and give it a try.
What I would like to do is to use seperate Amps for the horn and the Onken.
The crossover slopes could be designed into the amps.
This has the big advantage that each amp handles only five
octaves and this greatly simplifies the design. Maybe a SE 45 with
the Tago H-5S transformer is a good candidate for driving the HF horn.
Regards
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: Onken and Horn?
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:08:53 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n246
Manfred Huber <MHuber@t-online.de> wrote:
> Dave asked:
> >What are Onkens - petite, grande or otherwise?
> All I know about the Onken bass enclosures is from the article in
> Sound Practices Vol.1:#4. I m sure that Jean-Michel and others out there
have some
> first hand experience with the Onkens and maybe someone will jump in and
tell us
> more about the Onkens.
> Basically the Onkens are bas reflex enclosures designed by the Onken
company in
> Japan. The original Onken enclosures are equipped with proprietary
woofers also
> made by Onken. The french journal L Audiophile promoted the Onken
enclosures in the
> western world and suggested to use them with Altec woofers. The above
mentioned
> article in SP describes two different Onken style enclosures:
> Classic Onken: outside dimension (HxWxD): 95x80x55cm, 15 inch Altec
416-8B
> Petite Onken: 85x65x45cm, 12 inch Altec 414-8B
Hello,
To add few informations to what Manfred said:
The Onken/Jensen (Grande and Petite) can be calculated as true bass-reflex
(Butterworth 4th order) with an alignment coefficient n = 6.34
The coefficient n is the one in the expression:
Vb = n . Vas . (Qts^2)
The other rule with an Onken/Jensen is that the vents section should have
an
area equal to the area of the loudspeaker membrane (in my modified cabinet
it is only 3/4 of that area). The vents have to be also vertical and
symmetrical versus the loudspeaker position. The loudspeaker position have
to be 40 to 54 cm from the floor.
The optimisation of the vents length can be performed tracing the impedance
curve between 10 and 100Hz. The 2 peaks should be of equal height. In fact
as measured on the petite Onken of La Maison de l'Audiophile the peak at
22.5 Hz was at 116 ohms and the one at 60 Hz was at 88 ohms.
Hope this helps.
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: flegal@allaban.fr (Francois Yves Le Gal)
Subject: Re: Onken enclosures
Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 15:14:14 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n273
At 17:11 09/05/98 -0700, David Tan wrote:
>Can anybody give tell me how to design an Onken enclosure for a given
>woofer? Does one use T/S parameters and calculate as for a reflex ported
>design? (ie does it act like one?)
The so-called Onken enclosure is a variant of the Jensen bass-reflex. If
you do use the Snyder model, just use an n value of 6.3 (instead of the
usual 4 or 5.7), and you'll get a theoretical Onken load. Will it work fine
? Will it sound good ? Your guess is as good as mine.
>Conversely, what commonly available
>drivers (Onkens and Altecs not included!) would be suitable for an Onken
>cabinet as specified in SP vol1#4?
Most "stiff" drivers are OK for Jensen/Onken loads. A number of European
audiophiles have built such enclosures using Pioneer/TAD, Fostex or Focal
drivers. But the blueprint shown in SP does only apply to the specified
driver.
François Yves Le Gal flegal@allaban.fr
Directeur Associé
Allaban WebSystems Tél : + 33(0)1 4756 0194
70, rue Rivay Fax : + 33 (0)1 4756 0305
F-92300 Levallois-Perret http://www.allaban.fr
=========================================================================
From: "David Tan" <dtkky@singnet.com.sg>
Subject: Onken enclosures
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 17:11:17 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n273
Hi joenetters,
Can anybody give tell me how to design an Onken enclosure for a given
woofer? Does one use T/S parameters and calculate as for a reflex ported
design? (ie does it act like one?) Conversely, what commonly available
drivers (Onkens and Altecs not included!) would be suitable for an Onken
cabinet as specified in SP vol1#4?
Thanks
David Tan
=========================================================================
From: flegal@allaban.fr (Francois Yves Le Gal)
Subject: Re: Onken enclosures
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 16:56:14 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n274
At 21:57 10/05/98 -0700, David Tan wrote:
>What advantages does the Onken enclosure have over the usual ported reflex
>cabinets?( less ringing / port noise?)
Less ringing ? No, it is far from a "perfect" theoretical alignment and
does somehow show an underdamped response... Warm, yes. True, no.
Less port noise ? Yes, as the active surface is considerably wider than in
common BR enclosures. The same mass of air moves, but more easily.
>There seems to be quite a few variations around (including multiple
>woofers). So what is it that -defines- the Onken enclosure?
Nothing really. It is only quite a successful variation on the Jensen
bass-reflex, using premium materials/drivers and tuned by years of
experience/listening tests! BTW, using two or more drivers means using
twice or n times the air volume and "retuning" the box. That's what
happened with the Onken W enclosure, which, coincidently, is not a Jensen
anymore, but a traditional bass reflex !
François Yves Le Gal Allaban WebSystems Tél : +33 (0)1 4756 0194
Directeur Associé 70, rue Rivay Fax : +33 (0)1 4756 0305
flegal@allaban.fr F-92300 Levallois-Perret URL : http://www.allaban.fr
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Onken enclosures
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 18:12:01 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n274
At 21:57 10/05/98 -0700, David Tan wrote:
>What advantages does the Onken enclosure have over the usual ported reflex
>cabinets?( less ringing / port noise?)
Less ringing ? No, it is far from a "perfect" theoretical alignment and
does somehow show an under damped response... Warm, yes. True, no.
Less port noise ? Yes, as the active surface is considerably wider than in
common BR enclosures. The same mass of air moves, but more easily.
>There seems to be quite a few variations around (including multiple
>woofers). So what is it that -defines- the Onken enclosure?
Nothing really. It is only quite a successful variation on the Jensen
bass-reflex, using premium materials/drivers and tuned by years of
experience/listening tests! BTW, using two or more drivers means using
twice or n times the air volume and "retuning" the box. That's what
happened with the Onken W enclosure, which, coincidently, is not a Jensen
anymore, but a traditional bass reflex !
François Yves Le Gal Allaban WebSystems Tél : +33 (0)1 4756 0194
Directeur Associé 70, rue Rivay Fax : +33 (0)1 4756 0305
flegal@allaban.fr F-92300 Levallois-Perret URL : http://www.allaban.fr
=========================================================================
From: "David Tan" <dtkky@singnet.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Onken enclosures
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 21:57:38 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n274
Hi,
Thanks Francois, for the info.
What advantages does the Onken enclosure have over the usual ported reflex
cabinets?( less ringing / port noise?)
There seems to be quite a few variations around (including multiple
woofers). So what is it that -defines- the Onken enclosure?
I hope people who had their Onken cabinets fitted with commonly available
drivers share their experiences with this list.
Thanks
David Tan
- ----------
> From: Francois Yves Le Gal <flegal@allaban.fr>
> To: David Tan <dtkky@singnet.com.sg>
> Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: Onken enclosures
> Date: Saturday, May 09, 1998 6:14 AM
>
> At 17:11 09/05/98 -0700, David Tan wrote:
> >Can anybody give tell me how to design an Onken enclosure for a given
> >woofer? Does one use T/S parameters and calculate as for a reflex ported
> >design? (ie does it act like one?)
>
> The so-called Onken enclosure is a variant of the Jensen bass-reflex. If
> you do use the Snyder model, just use an n value of 6.3 (instead of the
> usual 4 or 5.7), and you'll get a theoretical Onken load. Will it work
fine
> ? Will it sound good ? Your guess is as good as mine.
>
> >Conversely, what commonly available
> >drivers (Onkens and Altecs not included!) would be suitable for an Onken
> >cabinet as specified in SP vol1#4?
>
> Most "stiff" drivers are OK for Jensen/Onken loads. A number of European
> audiophiles have built such enclosures using Pioneer/TAD, Fostex or Focal
> drivers. But the blueprint shown in SP does only apply to the specified
> driver.
>
>
> François Yves Le Gal flegal@allaban.fr
> Directeur Associé
> Allaban WebSystems Tél : + 33(0)1 4756 0194
> 70, rue Rivay Fax : + 33 (0)1 4756 0305
> F-92300 Levallois-Perret http://www.allaban.fr
=========================================================================
From: "David Tan" <dtkky@singnet.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Onken enclosures
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 23:02:42 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n274
Hi,
Thanks Francois, for the info.
What advantages does the Onken enclosure have over the usual ported reflex
cabinets?( less ringing / port noise?)
There seems to be quite a few variations around (including multiple
woofers). So what is it that -defines- the Onken enclosure?
I hope people who had their Onken cabinets fitted with commonly available
drivers share their experiences with this list.
Thanks
David Tan
- ----------
> From: Francois Yves Le Gal <flegal@allaban.fr>
> To: David Tan <dtkky@singnet.com.sg>
> Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: Onken enclosures
> Date: Saturday, May 09, 1998 6:14 AM
>
> At 17:11 09/05/98 -0700, David Tan wrote:
> >Can anybody give tell me how to design an Onken enclosure for a given
> >woofer? Does one use T/S parameters and calculate as for a reflex ported
> >design? (ie does it act like one?)
>
> The so-called Onken enclosure is a variant of the Jensen bass-reflex. If
> you do use the Snyder model, just use an n value of 6.3 (instead of the
> usual 4 or 5.7), and you'll get a theoretical Onken load. Will it work
fine
> ? Will it sound good ? Your guess is as good as mine.
>
> >Conversely, what commonly available
> >drivers (Onkens and Altecs not included!) would be suitable for an Onken
> >cabinet as specified in SP vol1#4?
>
> Most "stiff" drivers are OK for Jensen/Onken loads. A number of European
> audiophiles have built such enclosures using Pioneer/TAD, Fostex or Focal
> drivers. But the blueprint shown in SP does only apply to the specified
> driver.
>
>
> François Yves Le Gal flegal@allaban.fr
> Directeur Associé
> Allaban WebSystems Tél : + 33(0)1 4756 0194
> 70, rue Rivay Fax : + 33 (0)1 4756 0305
> F-92300 Levallois-Perret http://www.allaban.fr
=========================================================================
From: "Snoopy" <tcma@netvigator.com>
Subject: Re: Onken enclosures
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:54:32 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n274
Francois,
Thank you very much for your expertise advice. I am very interested in
the Jean Hiraga's book, "Les haut-parleurs" that you mentioned. Is it
written in French? Where I can buy one? What's the price? How can I
contact the Madison de l'Audiophile/LDA team?
Grateful to have your advice again.
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Tung Cheung MA
HONG KONG
- ----------
°e¥óªÌ: Francois Yves Le Gal <flegal@allaban.fr>
¦¬¥óªÌ: Snoopy <tcma@netvigator.com>
¥D¦®: Re: Onken enclosures
¤é´Á: 1998¦~5¤ë10¤é PM 06:37
At 09:25 10/05/98 +0800, you wrote:
> I will have a pair of Altec 515B drivers and want to find a subitable
>cabinet for them. Is the Onken suitable for them?
Hiraga et al. don't recommmend using 515Bs in Onken (or any bass reflex)
enclosures. Try an hybrid, like the Altec A8 Voice of the Theater, or a
real horn. Check Jean Hiraga's book, "Les haut-parleurs" or the Maison de
l'Audiophile/LDA team, who are very knowledgeable when it comes to Altec
drivers.
>Is the blueprint shown
>in SP applied to the 515Bs?
AFAICT, no.
>How can I find the information about the
>Snyder model?
AES proceedings, and most post Thiele/Small reference works.
All the best,
François Yves Le Gal Allaban WebSystems Tél : +33 (0)1 4756 0194
Directeur Associé 70, rue Rivay Fax : +33 (0)1 4756 0305
flegal@allaban.fr F-92300 Levallois-Perret URL : http://www.allaban.fr
- ----------
=========================================================================
From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPGNOUyEhOV1GcxsoQg==?= <CXL01514@niftyserve.or.jp>
Subject: Onken Tweeter
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:27:00 +0900
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n033
Hi! Nicholas,
I found Onken Tweeters for your friend. Please send private e-mail
to me. Best Regards Koji/EIFL
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Onken W
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:28:28 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n121
I received several questions about the Onken W enclosure. I think it could
be interesting to share the answers with the whole list.
The vents are simple rectangular holes in the front board, their dimensions
are different the smaller one should be placed toward the exterior. The
larger vent can be tuned for a better adaptation with the listening room.
For that a piece of wood can be fixed at the bottom of the vent hole to
reduced the vent height. Its dimension should be optimised during listening
tests.
Plywoods boards are fixed both with glue and screws. Screws are positionned
every 10 centimeters!
The rear side is very thick due to the use of two plywood board separated
with compressed sand.
Thick felt covers every internal surface even the brackets.
There is also 2 additionnal felt curtains suspended between the top board
and the rear bracket for the first one then between the rear bracket and the
bottom board by their 2 longer edges like this :
TOP
_____________
| \ |
| \ | B = Bracket
| Felt-> \ |
| \ |
| \ |
FRONT | B| REAR
| / |
| Felt--> / |
| / |
| / |
|_______/_____|
Nantex 30 is the trademark for the best quality plywood available in France.
30 is the thickness given in millimeters, there is also a Nantex 45 used,
this one possess a 45 mm thickness. The number of plies is more than 7.
Nantex is made in beech wood (birch possess lesser mechanical behaviour)
The lower frequency of that enclosure is 35 Hz. Linearity is excellent
between 45 and 600Hz (scanned frequency curve available). The mean
sensitivity is 100dB / 1W / 1m.
The sound is more neutral than with VOT, very dynamic and natural.
I know that several jazz lovers preferred VOT, but generally, people
listening to wider range of music agree that the Onken W is better.
IMHO this enclosure sounds better in large listening rooms and I prefer the
Grande Onken and even the petite Onken in smaller rooms (lesss than 25
square meters). I admit that at loud level there is less distortion with
Onken W than with the Grande Onken and the Petite Onken...
Best regards.
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Ed Johnson <rb1304@alltel.net>
Subject: online swap
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 16:34:19 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n015
I have NOS 5691s red base with RCA logo on top,asking 30.00 each also
have 4 NOS WE328a tubes with cartons,one 275,one 101d,and one NOS
monoplate 2a3 best offers. thanks E.J
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Online Swap: Altec drivers and horns
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:32:06 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n295
I found a stash of some old Altec drivers and horns. I haven't decided to
get them yet... if anyone is interested, let me know, and i can.
The drivers are some 808 compression drivers with 511 (I think) horns, and
there are some 423-8 15" drivers as well. The old A7 cabs are shot...
they got waterlogged and fell apart. The same source also has some
Mantaray CD horns, not sure what model.
Basically, if enough people are interested, and the price is right, i can
get them. I'd just like to make enough to break even (or close to it) on
the purchase and keep one set of drivers for myself. The guy who has
them does sound systems for churches and stuff, and uses Altecs with Crown
amps at home. If i can get him to visit, i can probably sway him over to
tubes for home use. :}
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: cjg2@concentric.net
Subject: Online swap: EV SP12Bs (pair) and some 838s
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:28:15 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n453
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BDF6C6.7ABFF580
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gang,
These have been sitting around too long, and I'm enjoying Diatones way =
too much.
Alnico SP12B full rangers, circa late 50s/early 60s, perfect cones, =
surrounds, whizzers, overall excellent, matching pair. How's $140 plus =
a little shipping?
Also, a pair of WWII era JAN 838s--a 211 variant, NOS in mil =
boxes+packing...how's $110 shipped for the pair?
e-mail: cjg2@concentric.net
Thanks for the BW--Chris
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BDF6C6.7ABFF580
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Gang,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>These have been sitting around too =
long, and I'm=20
enjoying Diatones way too much.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Alnico SP12B full rangers, circa late 50s/early 60s, =
perfect=20
cones, surrounds, whizzers, overall excellent, matching pair. =
How's $140=20
plus a little shipping?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Also, a pair =
of WWII era JAN=20
838s--a 211 variant, NOS in mil boxes+packing...how's $110 shipped for =
the=20
pair?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>e-mail: =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:cjg2@concentric.net">cjg2@concentric.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks for the BW--Chris</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BDF6C6.7ABFF580--
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Online Swap: Golden Dragon 2A3s
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:33:37 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n432
I have a matched pair of Golden Dragon 2A3s, NIB.
Best offer, or trade for new Sovtek 6B4G MP or used cheapo 300Bs or ???
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: Online Swap: Golden Dragon 2A3s -Reply
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:19:02 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n433
Hi Dave,
Triode has the Sovteks 6B4Gs now for $49 / mp.. best price I've seen.
BTW, I've now A/B ed the Sovteks against NOS Sylvania 6B4Gs and the Sovteks
have more detail and body, especially in the mids, at least to my ears and in my
system.
My 2 cents,
- Ralph
=========================================================================
From: Steve Berger <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
Subject: ON LINE SWAP MEAT
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 01:49:45 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n114
I've got a few things to get out of my place.Here goes
A pair of Goodman 902 Tru Triaxioms.12"coax's $200 OBO
A pair of Altec 601-Ds.$350
A Mac MR-66AM-FM Stereo Tuner.Mint with a beutifull walnut case.$500
An H.H.Scott 310 Stereo tuner ,very, very clean,in original box with
manual.$500
Please reply via private e-mail,Thanx, Steve
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Online swap meet - 211s for sale
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:49:32 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n020
My bud Stan Webb has two NOS, one probably NOS (some of the packaging is
missing from the box) and one used GE 211/VT-4C for sale.
He's asking $125 each for the NOS tubes.
Please respond privately if interested.
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: E Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Online Swap Meet. 45's..
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:34:27 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n028
#45 triodes, used tested.
transconductance (on TV-7) price each
-----------------------------------------
very low $5
low $10
borderline good $15
good $20
very good $25
whoa! $30
Ed B.
tube@teleport.com
=========================================================================
From: E Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: online swap meet: 45's
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n248
Used 45's, $25 ea. These test very good on my TV-7.
Reply privately, (off-list) please.
Thanks for the BW
Ed B.
www.teleport.com/~tube
=========================================================================
From: "Markowitz, Gary" <MarkowitzG@nabisco.com>
Subject: Online Swap Meet: 7591's
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:29:11 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n012
Hi all,
I found a Lowery organ chassis last night at a local junk shop. It had
a bunch of tubes on it, but the surprise was a pair of very nice looking
7591's, labeled Lowery made in USA. I don't have any use for them, adn
the look to be in great shape. I don't have a tube tester, but I can
try to locate one and test them if any of you are interested. I also
have the power tranny and OPT (no bells, open frame, kind of looks like
a stancor, I think) if anyone's interested.
Other tubes I found with the lot were 6x8, 6fa7, and 6ez8. Looked them
up, no real audio use, but if you've got an old organ that uses these,
let me know if you want them.
Thanks,
Gary Markowitz
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------
"Into the keyboard, thru the processor, off the NIC, past the gateway,
nothing but Net"
=========================================================================
From: Jeff Mai <jmai@fn.net>
Subject: On-line swap meet
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:50:45 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n010
Hey all! Wish I could have made it to VSAC to meet some of you in person.
Is VSAC going to be an annual event? If so, maybe next year!
I've got some Altec stuff that I'm looking to get rid of. I'd prefer to do
trading but if you want to buy something outright, make an offer.
1 - Altec 291-16K
1 - Altec 515B (16 inch frame, *NOT* a recone)
The above items are used but are in excellent condition.
2 - Altec 418 (They are labeled "Kustom," but were made by Altec. These
are reconed, but with a paper dustcap instead of the stock Aluminum.)
2 - Altec(???) 60 degree Mantaray horns (1.4 inch throat, fiberglass.)
1 - Altec(???) 120 degree Mantaray horn (1.4 inch throat, fiberglass.)
2 - Altec(???) A-7 cabinets (These are for 16" frame woofers. The access
panels are missing on these. I will include precut, plywood panels.)
The above items are used and in good condition. The horns and cabinets
have all been painted flat black and I can't find any Altec logos or part
numbers on them, hence the ???
Stuff I'm looking for:
1 pair Altec Aluminum diaphragms for 1.4" throat compression drivers or
1 pair Altec Pascalite 16ohm diaphragms for same. (I'd prefer the Aluminum.)
1 or 2 pair of JBL 2220J woofers
1 pair of JBL "baby cheeks" tweeters (What was the model number? I forgot.)
Tube preamp and/or tuner
Parts for amp building, especially power triodes and OPTs.
Respond in private e-mail to: jmai@fn.net
=========================================================================
From: gdahl@televar.com (Gary Dahl)
Subject: on-line swap meet
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:18:45 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n022
Hi all,
A few items offered by my friend Mike Lee of Edmonds, WA:
1 pr. VV52B, NIB $400
1 pr. Triangle T17 FLV608, NIB $200 (as featured in Gordon Rankin's SP article)
1 Audio Crafters Guild X-DAC 3.0 board and parts (no enclosure) $300
-circuit board
-99% of parts to complete project (excluding power supply)
-one input transformer
-extra chips (receiver, sample rate converter, etc.)
-shunt regulator option
-79XX output stage regulator option
-all NIB
I have an extra Elpac WM113TT power supply (specified for use with the XDAC
3.0 unless you build a fancier one) that I would sell at a modest price.
Contact Mike Lee at (206) 712-1703 (evenings)
I may be able to answer some questions by E-mail at: gdahl@televar.com
Best regards,
Gary
gdahl@televar.com
"so many tubes, so little time"
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com>
Subject: online swap meet
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:15:56 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n030
hi guys,
i have an extra pair of svetlana sv572-10 that i am looking
to swap.
i have 3 matched pairs, NIB. gonna keep 2 pairs for a pp amp.
anyone interested in a little horse-trading?
list price is between $55 and $75, depending on who you deal with.
things i'm interested in (no particular order):
45's new or used
300B's new/used any make
old OPT's - pp, se (especially looking for se 6bq5 types -5k or so)
a quad or more of 2a3's (newish/used any make)
cheers
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: On Line Swapmeet
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 12:39:24 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n054
I found some junque I just gotta have, but have to unload some priceless
treasures to justify more junque, or is that vice versa. You know the
gig. My main problem, at least one of them, is that my mind overloads
my ass by about a factor of ten when it comes to projects, so have to
give up a few old projects to make room for new ones.
Here we go. If this comes out scrambled, please widen your viewing
window a bit and it should straighten out.
The folowing four items are best offer over $75 within the next day or
so, by the end of tomorrow at the latest, or maybe immediately, if I
like the offer.
1. One only JBL D131, 12 inch full range speaker.
Frame is good, cone and dustcap are as new and
apparently are original, date on cone is 1982.
2. JBL D123s, various 8 or 16 ohm.
Price is each, E-Mail for details.
3. Pair Goodmans D208 Triaxiom speakers. Eight inch with 3 in VC,
whizzer cone and coaxially mounted horn tweeter. Ex cond.
One party on the list has approached me for a trade on these
units, so I should see what he has to offer before commiting
them for sale. Money is better though, unless he has something
I just gotta have, so feel free.
4. Pair EV SP12Bs. In excellent condition. Very efficient.
fs is 43 Hz, both units. Sound pretty good as full range
speakers with the proper treble contour.
Following items are priced individually, best offer over ?
5. Pair Peerless TA305F subwoofers in ex cond b/o over $60/pair.
6. Heathkit FM-4 mono tube tuner, works fine, b/o over $35.
7. Teak reel-to-reel, four channel recorder, 7 1/2 in reels,
dual speed. Model A-2340R. I have no idea what his thing
is worth. Make me an offer. It is heavy, so shipping may
be costly unless to a destination on the west coast. Plus
it would be a pain to pack securely.
8. Pioneer Receiver SX-939. This is a big, heavy mother,
probably around 150 watts/channel, I would guess. Will
measure it if anyone is interested. As far as I know it
works OK, will verify operation. The only thing I am aware
of that needs fixing is the balance pot shaft is broken off.
It is tweakable, so I never bothered to fix it, esp since I
was not using it. If it is not of sufficient audio quality
to suit your refined tube palette, it might pinch hit as a
decent tuner and a relatively powerful subwoofer amp. Make
an offer.
9. Oh yes, and I still have most of the antique radios, about
sixty, ranging from the mid twenties to late forties mostly,
a few fifties. I haven't had (or taken) time to market them.
They range from about $20 to $200. E-Mail for a list if
interested, I have one prepared.
If anyone is real hot for some item and is ready to make an offer I
can't refuse, I can post a pic. This is a bit of a pain, so please ask
only if there is a serious interest and you are trembling with
excitement whilst standing by with with check book in hand. I have a
little catch-all web page for posting pics, so it will not burden the
group. Please respond privately so as to not burden the list any
further.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Online SwapMeet
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 20:30:04 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n061
I have a pair of Heath crossovers that are essentially the same as Altec
N-800's except with beefier parts. They are in ex-mint condition.
best offer over $60 (plus shipping)
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: Ashby Box <eab008@email.mot.com>
Subject: On-Line Swapmeet
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:14:08 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n072
On-Line Swapmeet
If there is interested parties in experiments in science active
crossover system. I have available RANE AC 23 - ACTIVE CROSSOVER
Stereo 2 or 3-way, mono 4 or 5-way configurable
24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley filters
Driver alignment delays
Crossover: Alignment Linkwitz-Riley Proprietary 4th-Order State-Variable
Slopes 24 dB/Octave
Range (3-way) 70-1 kHz Low to Mid 41-Detent Continuously Variable Pot
Range (3-way) 190-7 kHz Mid to High as above
Range (2-way) 190-7 kHz Low to High as above
ALL OP have been change to Analog Device excellent OP275.
More information on RANE and Active Crossover can be found at
http://www.rane.com/welcome.html
One month old asking $300
Private E-MAIL eaboo8@email.mot.com
Ashby
=========================================================================
From: long@robby.caltech.edu (Mark K. Long)
Subject: Online Swapmeet
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:21:35 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n094
Time to do a little fall cleaning.
Scott 310-D Tuner + 326? Multiplex, excellent cond, make fair offer.
Renkus Heinz SSD1800 Compression Driver, $300/pair
Renkusg Heinz SSD1200 HF horns, $250/pair
pair Stage Accompany Ribbons. 103 db/w/m without horn. (one of the
best tweeters I've ever heard, if it wasn't for the TAD 2001, I'd keep
them.)
Parasound Preamp w/ remote P/LD 1000. $500
My Spare Harltey woofers: My favorite woofer, works great in horn,
infinite baffle, or dipole. Handmade. A friend has these in a folded
horn, best bottom end I've ever heard. My 24s in corner dipoles are
showing great promise. (2) 24" Woofers ($750) $400 ea. (2) 18"
Woofers ($700) $300. prefer to sell as a pair.
Looking for:
Eico HF-89 amp/output trannies. (if you have any info on these
transformers, I'd apprecaite it, model number, other amps that used
them, etc.).
Mark
long@caltech.edu
=========================================================================
From: Robert Root <rrjlife@earthlink.net>
Subject: Online Swap Meet:
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:14:25 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n178
I have the following for sale:
---Tango U-808---$150/pr
---Ediswan 6DJ8 NIB/pr----$70
---Audio Pro Active Speakers/Walnut--Good cond. A4-14-Made in
Sweden, Two way with 2 driver Sub. All drivers in good cond.
Speakers are driven with pre-amp only. Cables/manuel--$600
---Brentworth Sound Labs Mark-3 in refinished piano black. Not
Corian cabinets. Two Audax Tweets with external non-attached
mounts lay on speaker tops. Tweets are thoes used on the grand
slamms. Tweeters are in series with oil cap. A great sounding
full range 96DB speaker. 70lbs each--Pick up only in the LA
area. $1950
Wanted: Gen Rad 1201B Supply
Northern Electric 205D's/pr
Altec 416-8A (1 or 2 drivers)
515 B or E/pr
=========================================================================
From: Jeff Mai <jmai@fn.net>
Subject: On-line swap meet
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:26:19 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n186
These aren't the greatest 15" woofers ever made, but they are way cheaper
than 515Bs. I think the 421s actually sound pretty good. The cones and
baskets on both types are very similar to 515Bs.
Pair of 421 recones, 8 ohms, cool white baskets ( these were reconed with
Altec factory kits, but instead of the normal aluminum dustcap a paper one
was used. )
$180 + shipping
Pair of 418A recones, 8 ohms, alnico ( these are labeled 'Kustom' but were
made by Altec. These were also reconed with a paper dustcap. )
$100 + shipping
I'll consider trades for these items as well. Let me know what you've got!
Jeff Mai
(316)942-3304
jmai@fn.net
=========================================================================
From: mlong@robby.caltech.edu (Mark Long2)
Subject: Online Swapmeet
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:10:55 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n276
Time for a little spring cleaning.
(1) EVS 20bit HDCD DAC, handwired, separate analog & digital power
supplies & isolations tranformers ($3k) $1100. This unit is in a plain
box, $3K unit had a fancier chassis. SPDIF RCA input, RCA analog output.
Low output impedance drives my passive volume easily.
(4) Focal 7V513 drivers $300/all;
(2) Stage Accompany Ribbon tweeters, mint, $1000/pair;
(1) HP122AR oscope, make an offer.
(1) Tek 453 scope $250;
(3) Warfdale 5'' mids $50.
(2) Warfdale 12'' woofers + 12'' flat active radiators, $100/all.
Wanted: Eico HF-89 amp/xfmrs.
all+shipping
Mark, 626-577-0700 eve.
long@caltech.edu
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Online Swap Meet
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:34:44 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n290
Fellas:
I hope it's still netcorrect to do this, if not, somebody tell me, OK?
Anyway, I have a brand new platinum matched quad of Svetlana 811-10's
that I got about 9 months ago, NIB. If anybody wants these, I'll be
happy to let them go. Please reply privately, and yes, I will ship first
and you pay on receipt.
Cheers!
S.G.
=========================================================================
From: "Jeff Mai" <jmai@fn.net>
Subject: Online Swap Meet
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:24:09 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n374
My car is dead so this stuff has to go. Any reasonable offer will be
considered.
Pr. Altec 805B multicell horns with single throat adapters, exc. condition.
$400
Pr. Altec 288-16C or K HF drivers, your choice, good condition. $400
Pr. Altec 515B woofers, near mint condition. $450
2 Pr. A7 style bass cabinets, fair condition, pick up only, 1 Pr. free
with purchase of any of the above or $50 each.
1 Altec 803B multicell horn with single throat adapter, good condition.
$100
Pr. Altec 1003B multicell horns with single throat adapters, rough
condition. $200
Pr. of DIY Morrison style pipe speakers (see SP#6) This is a slapped
together (ugly) midrange and tweeter module only (no bass) from JCs
article. Includes the Focal drivers and the passive crossover components.
$300
Jeff Mai
(316)942-3304
=========================================================================
From: "Jeff Mai" <jmai@fn.net>
Subject: On-line Swap Meet
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:05:35 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n394
Thanks to all who purchased items from me two weeks ago! I was able to
make a decent down-payment on a car with the help of the proceeds.
Unfortunately my car is too small to haul the packages down to UPS and I've
been having difficulty finding a truck. I'm going to have UPS pick-up at
my house so they should be on their way by Thursday. I'll e-mail the
buyers with tracking numbers once they are off. Apologies to all for the
delays.
My prices on these items have been reduced since the last post. Since I am
now just wanting to clear this stuff out, trade offers will be considered.
I am particularly looking for RCA MI-9449 woofers. This is what is left:
1 Altec 803B multicell horn with single throat adapter, good condition.
$50
Pr. Altec 291-16K HF drivers, excellent condition. $250
Pr. of DIY Morrison style pipe speakers (see SP#6) This is a slapped
together (ugly) midrange and tweeter module only (no bass) from JCs
article. Includes the Focal 7V and TI120 drivers and the passive crossover
components specified in the article. The drivers are in perfect condition.
$200
Jeff Mai
(316)942-3304
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: online swap meet
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:07:02 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n443
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BDF154.1E2DB220
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To Puget Sound joes,
I have a very nice Tektronix RM565 dual beam oscilloscope for sale.
Before all you Tek guys start taking pot shots, I will say straight out =
that it is a *bug mutha* - about 75 lbs, rack mount.
DC-15MHz, dual beam, meaning it has two time bases, it's basically two =
scopes sharing a single CRT. With two dual trace plug ins you can =
monitor ins and outs of both channels simultaneously, four traces across =
the screen. Kind of cool for checking out balance between channels and =
such.
It has a type 60 single trace plug in and a type 3A1 dual trace plug in =
included.
It's been retubed, so anybody looking for killer 6DJ8s and 6922s would =
probably have a field day inside this beast.
It's not a nifty little modern scope with storage, dc to light =
bandwidth, blah, blah, but it's in super nice shape, good calibration, =
and reasonable.
I've had a *bunch* of these big ol' reliable Tek scopes, and this one is =
the nicest I've owned.
Priced at $1 per lb., you haul.=20
Sorry, no can ship this beast.
Doc B.
www.bottlehead.com
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BDF154.1E2DB220
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>To Puget Sound joes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>I have a very nice Tektronix RM565 dual beam=20
oscilloscope for sale.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>Before all you Tek guys start taking =
pot shots,=20
I will say straight out that it is a *bug mutha* - about 75 lbs, rack=20
mount.</DIV>
<DIV>DC-15MHz, dual beam, meaning it has two time bases, it's basically =
two=20
scopes sharing a single CRT. With two dual trace plug ins you can =
monitor ins=20
and outs of both channels simultaneously, four traces across the screen. =
Kind of=20
cool for checking out balance between channels and such.</DIV>
<DIV>It has a type 60 single trace plug in and a type 3A1 dual trace =
plug in=20
included.</DIV>
<DIV>It's been retubed, so anybody looking for killer 6DJ8s and 6922s =
would=20
probably have a field day inside this beast.</DIV>
<DIV>It's not a nifty little modern scope with storage, dc to light =
bandwidth,=20
blah, blah, but it's in super nice shape, good calibration, and=20
reasonable.</DIV>
<DIV>I've had a *bunch* of these big ol' reliable Tek scopes, and this =
one is=20
the nicest I've owned.</DIV>
<DIV>Priced at $1 per lb., you haul. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Sorry, no can ship this beast.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Doc B.<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.bottlehead.com">www.bottlehead.com</A></FONT></DIV></B=
ODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BDF154.1E2DB220--
=========================================================================
From: alan cameron <alan@thehub.com.au>
Subject: Re: online swap meet
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:38:37 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n449
you said:
> I've had a *bunch* of these big ol' reliable Tek scopes, and this one is
>the nicest I've owned. Priced at $1 per lb., you haul.
Was pricing by weight Dunker's idea?
alan
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: online swap meet
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:31:09 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n464
For sale:
Tektronix RM 565 rack mount dual beam oscilloscope. 3A1 and type 60 plug
ins.
Retubed, full of nice 6DJ8 types.
$75
Pair NOS RCA UX-250, in original boxes with original corrugated packing
paper and data sheets
$700
Audioquest AQ404 high output MC cartridge, 47K load, 2 mV output, very low
hours
$125
four used 805s, two RCA, good getters, one missing bayonet pin, one GE, good
getter, one tired RCA, getter worn
$80
Doc B.
www.bottlehead.com
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: online swap meet
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:38:57 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n473
Joes,
The Tek scope and the UX-250s are sold, I still have the following
available:
>
>Audioquest AQ404 high output MC cartridge, 47K load, 2 mV output, very low
>hours
>$125
this is a nice fast cartridge that likes higher mass tonearms and does not
require a step up device. Balances nicely with mellow older preamps like
PAS, PV3, HF-85, H.H. Scott, etc.
>
>four used 805s, two RCA, good getters, one missing bayonet pin, one GE,
good
>getter, one tired RCA, getter worn
>$80
Hope to dig out more stuff to sell soon....
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Jon Lane" <jhlane@email.msn.com>
Subject: Online swap meet...
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:18:22 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n552
...well, sort of.
I have a single NOS UTC LS22 (PP plates to PP grids, medium
level) just right for somebody's next largish PP driver/PP
amplifier project. Its in one of those mid-sized LS2
packages, the same size as the '55 and '57 outputs. It
wants a home. It can be accompanied by another single LS,
the 151, a bridging tranny of the smaller LS 1 variety. I
have specs if you want them.
On the other hand, I am looking for:
1) UTC LS 20
2) UTC LS 21
Even partial trades are sought.
Thanks,
Jon Lane
=========================================================================
From: E Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Online swap meet: A-7 speaker enclosures
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n248
Pair A-7 cabs, $100
Pick-up only, Portland, OR
(sorry, can't ship)
Ed B.
www.teeport.com/~tube
=========================================================================
From: "Bastien Bouchard" <bastienb@microtec.net>
Subject: on line swap meet: also looking for a Red or Gold unit
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:21:54 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n120
Hello Ed and all,
Sadly, you did'nt get the one i was looking for ... I have one Gold and one
RED here now and would like to make a pair... Anyway, I understand that
you have a Silver one? This is the first serie (oldest) produced in the
50'. The x-over you have is probably the one sealed in a small metal box
with wax filling. It is just a high pass affair. 8,8 uF followed by a
resonnant trap:
2,2 uF, .27 mHy and 12 ohms parralleled if i remember well. The sound is
"a little" honky as is. Much better with also 12dB low pass on the woofer.
The subsequent RED and GOLD ediiton have much more elaborate x-overs with
tone controls.
My two cents,
Bastien
p.s.: i you ever decide to make a box for them, think BIG!...
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: on line swap meet: also looking for a Red or Gold unit
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:39:11 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n120
Bastien Bouchard wrote:
>
> Hello Ed and all,
>
> Sadly, you did'nt get the one i was looking for ... I have one Gold and one
> RED here now and would like to make a pair... Anyway, I understand that
> you have a Silver one? This is the first serie (oldest) produced in the
> 50'. The x-over you have is probably the one sealed in a small metal box
> with wax filling. It is just a high pass affair. 8,8 uF followed by a
> resonnant trap:
> 2,2 uF, .27 mHy and 12 ohms parralleled if i remember well. The sound is
> "a little" honky as is. Much better with also 12dB low pass on the woofer.
>
> The subsequent RED and GOLD ediiton have much more elaborate x-overs with
> tone controls.
>
> My two cents,
>
> Bastien
>
> p.s.: i you ever decide to make a box for them, think BIG!...
Bastian, I sent the following to your email address, but it bounced, so
here it is.
Hi,
Say, there was a chap on RAT who recently posted an add to trade a
Tannoy for a University 315. I have been chatting with him recently on
various matters and he apparently has a collection of Tannoys, including
some singles, as I recall, so you may be able to match up a pair for
the both of you. Or, if you have a 315 then maybe it is your lucky day.
His address is:
John Smith and Rachel Dalley <allofus@es.co.nz>
BTW, I recently picked up a single University 312 and am looking for a
mate. If you come across one, I would appreciate your letting me know.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Jeff Mai <jmai@fn.net>
Subject: On-line swap meet (Altec stuff)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:29:54 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n057
I've got a bunch of stuff here that I'm not likely to use. Trades are
welcome, let me know what you want to swap. If you don't like the price
listed, make an offer.
2 - Altec A7 cabinets. These are plywood and a bit on the rough side.
They have been painted flat black and are missing the original driver
access panel. I will include a plywood panel cut to the correct size. $50
each (you must pick these up)
2 - Altec 421 15-inch woofers. These have been reconed with paper dust
caps instead of the original aluminum ones. $75 each
2 - Altec 418 15-inch alnico woofers. Again, these are reconed with the
paper dustcaps. $50 each
1 - Altec 515B 15-inch woofer. In excellent condition. $250
3 - Altec 291-16K 1.4 inch compression drivers. All in excellent
condition. These sounded really nice on my Altec multicells but they do
need a tweeter as they don't reach quite as high as the all aluminum 288.
I suspect these would sound great on a pair of 300Hz horns. These do have
an aluminum diaphragm but the suspension is Kapton or something similar.
$175 each
1 - Altec Mantaray 120 degree horn. 1.4" throat. Similar to the MRII5124
listed at http://www.sysint.com/systems/altec/horns.htm I have no idea
what this item is worth. I'll just include it with the odd 291-16K or make
an offer if you want it by itself.
Stuff I'm looking for (still.)
1 pr JBL 2404 tweeters
1 pr Altec 1.4" 16 ohm aluminum diaphragms or
1 pr Altec 288C - 16 ohm
=========================================================================
From: el34@juno.com
Subject: Re: On-line swap meet (Altec stuff)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:59:42 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n058
>3 - Altec 291-16K 1.4 inch compression drivers. All in excellent
>condition
>$175 each
Do you need any 1" drivers? I have a pair of 802D "old" style alum.
drivers and a pair of 908-8A "tangerine" drivers. Both pairs are in
excellent condition. A trade would solve my throat adapter problem. :)
Joe
=========================================================================
From: el34@juno.com
Subject: Re: On-line swap meet (Altec stuff)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:51:52 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n059
> I have a pair of 802D "old" style alum. drivers and a pair of 908-8A
"tangerine" drivers.
The above was supposed to be a private post. I really don't want to sell
them. I would trade for a pair of 1.4" drivers. Some things are worth
more than mere cash.
Thanks,
Joe
=========================================================================
From: "E. Billeci" <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Online swap meet Altec, Tamura
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:39:28 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n517
Altec 806drivers - need diaphragms, terminals missing $100pr obo
Altec 811B horns -$100pr obo
Altec 203B 2-cell horns (300hz)$300 pr, pick up only, Portland OR
Altec 1003B 10-cellhorns, (300hz) $400 pr, pick up only, Port, OR
Tamura F-2013 NIB (unused) 10K 40W SE trans, for 845 or 211 $725pr
Aluminum "frames" for building mono amps, etc. These measure 11"x21"
I used the same type on a large s.e. 212 project, (SP#14). See better
pics at www.teleport.com/~tube $250 ea. (less than my cost)
ARRL Handbooks (lots-o-tube data, and construction techniques) $10 ea
Audio Amateur 88 issues from 1970-1994 -best offer
used/tested 45's and 2A3 $25 ea
several Solen polyprop 13uf 400v caps, pulled from speaker crossovers
$2 ea
JBL 075 16 ohm Alnico "Bullet" tweeters $275 pr
Ed B.
(503) 674-5089
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Online Swap Meet: Ampex recorder and accessories
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:28:45 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n292
Well, I've decided that restoring Ampex Reel to reels is technically over
my head right now, plus I've had some bad luck recently in that the guy
lease purchasing my house back in Georgia has informed me that he can't
complete the sale afterall. Therefore, I'm putting up for sale the Ampex
stuff I have accumulated recently.
1. Ampex 354 recorder complete with all electronics - 2 track stereo, good
heads, clean unit, pulled from private person's home after death, don't
know exact operational condition as I haven't done anything to it to enable
starting it up. This has the famous 350 transport!
2. Ampex Master Control Unit which was part of the famous 350 electronics.
It is a complete part no. 30960-2, but for stereo recording you would need
to find a matching slave unit part no. 30960-3.
3. Ampex preamp - operational.
4. Spare parts from two Ampex model 300 decks - basically anything that you
would like me to pull off that would work with the 350. I know that the
motors are the same as well as various other parts that were
interchangeable between the model 300 and model 350.
I'd like to get $500 for all the above plus shipping. The 354 is really
nice and would probably not need much TLC to get it working as is. Offers
welcome.
thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: E Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Online swap meet- beasty TV tubes, etc
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:25:23 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n233
Noticed all the talk recently about TV tubes...
I got some of these beasts on my website, at
www.teleport.com/~tube/garage.htm
The list is not done yet, and I will put the rest of the tubes up
there asap. (fingers got tired!)
Ed B.
PS, See you at VSAC! (gonna bring something smaller this time. Oh, my back!)
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Online Swapmeet: Computer Memory
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:25:36 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n083
I know this is off topic, but since we communicate via computer, maybe not
so much.
I want to upgrade my machine to 64K of RAM and thought that someone out
there might could use some memory. I will split it up if there might be
two people who want to go from 16 meg to 32 meg cheaply.
Here is what I have:
32 megs of 60ns EDO 72 pin SIMMs. 4 pieces at 8 megs each.
All 4 pieces for $75
or separately
2 pieces (16 meg) for $40.
I'll pay postage within USA.
I only bought it this past March and it works fine.
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Online Swap Meet: Crossovers
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:56:19 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n065
I have an extra pair of crossovers. These are the Heath version of the
N-800 Altecs. They were made by Altec to Heath's specifications (which
were better than original Altecs). Have heavy duty wipers, and constant
impedance over entire range. NEW capacitors! In AS NEW condition.
Best offer over $60 (plus shipping) for the pair.
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Online Swap Meet - EV Compression Drivers
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:56:44 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n296
To all:
A friend at a large local live sound company has a large inventory of
EV DH-3 compression drivers he's moving out for $35 ea. (plus
shipping), used but good. That's less than the cost of a replacement
diaphragm.
For specs on the DH-3, go to www.eviaudio.com. A brief summary --
they use a standard threaded mount, are a small-format driver, and
probably shouldn't be used below 2KHz. Nice, clean, extended top end
though. These were the drivers used as "supertweeters" in the EV MT4
sound reinforcement speakers.
If anyone wants any of these, contact me privately and I'll send you
the seller's e-mail address.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Gary Markowitz" <gary_m2@mailexcite.com>
Subject: Online Swap Meet- Globes, DHT's, and other cool old tubes
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 07:49:56 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n014
Hi all,
Sorry for sending this thru an alternate email adress, but my mail server at work
is acting funny.
All of the following tubes were found in an old egg crate
style box. No original boxes, but all appear to be NOS
in perfect shape. All getters are look great.
Globes
Tube Brand Qty
45 Majestic
80 Philco
cx326 (26) Cunningham 2
71A RCA
UX222 RCA
NU247 Nat. Union
24 Majestic
ER236 Eveready Raytheon
ER227 Eveready Raytheon
X222 Unknown
ST style tube
6L6G Philco 2
6K5 Nat. Union
77 Nat. Union
77 Philco
26 Cunningham
6B5 Raytheon
80 Philco
47 Tung Sol
43 Raytheon
25Z5 Sylvania
6A8 Tung Sol
41 RCA Cunningham
6B7 Ken Rad
78 Philco
If you have any questions, please email me.
Tubes will be sold to best offer on individual
tubes. Offers against larger numbers of tubes
will be given preference (I don't want to pack
up too many boxes).
Please respond to my regular email adress,
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
Gary Markowitz
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
- --------------------------------------------
"Into the keyboard, thru the processor, off the NIC,
past the gateway, nothing but Net"
Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
=========================================================================
From: "Markowitz, Gary" <MarkowitzG@nabisco.com>
Subject: Online Swap Meet- Globes, DHT's, and other cool old tubes
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:41:26 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n015
Hi all,
All of the following tubes were found in an old egg crate
style box. No original boxes, but all appear to be NOS
in perfect shape. All getters are look great.
Here's why I believe they are all NOS.
I walked into a flea market at a local church, and found a really neet
tubed radio for $10, so I picked it up. As I took it up to the front
desk, an old (about 90) guy walked up and started up a conversation
about the old radios. He said he had a box full of new tubes, mostly
from the thirties and fourties, from when he and his dad owned an radio
repair shop, which he ran until the '70's. When he closed down the
shop, he found a box with a whole mess of old tubes in original boxes,
but the boxes were rotting away. He unboxed them all, packed them into
sandwich bags with twist ties, and put them all into an eggcrate style
box, and took them home. The guy really didn't know what they were
worth, but figured they were worth something to someone who repairs old
radios. Anyway, I believed him, and I bought the tubes.
So, I picked out a bunch for me to keep, and I'm putting up the
following for sale:
Globes
Tube Brand Qty
45 Majestic
80 Philco
cx326 (26) Cunningham 2
71A RCA
UX222 RCA
NU247 Nat. Union
24 Majestic
ER236 Eveready Raytheon
ER227 Eveready Raytheon
X222 Unknown
ST style tube
6L6G Philco 2
6K5 Nat. Union
77 Nat. Union
77 Philco
26 Cunningham
6B5 Raytheon
80 Philco
47 Tung Sol
43 Raytheon
25Z5 Sylvania
6A8 Tung Sol
41 RCA Cunningham
6B7 Ken Rad
78 Philco
If you have any questions, please email me.
Tubes will be sold to best offer on individual
tubes. Offers against larger numbers of tubes
will be given preference (I don't want to pack
up too many boxes).
Gary Markowitz
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
- --------------------------------------------
"Into the keyboard, thru the processor, off the NIC,
past the gateway, nothing but Net"
=========================================================================
From: "Markowitz, Gary" <MarkowitzG@nabisco.com>
Subject: RE: Online Swap Meet- Globes, DHT's, and other cool old tubes
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:25:29 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n015
Sorry about the repeat post. My email at work had gone on the fritz,
and I didn't think the first message even went thru.
Gary Markowitz
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------
"Into the keyboard, thru the processor, off the NIC, past the gateway,
nothing but Net"
=========================================================================
From: "Markowitz, Gary" <MarkowitzG@nabisco.com>
Subject: Online Swap Meet: HH Scott Mono Tube integrated for sale
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:44:34 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n011
Hi all,
I recently posted to RAM and RATubes a Scott 210e Dinaural Labratory
Amplifier for sale. It does 30 watts, is fully tubed and it works,
although I haven't tested the individual resisors and caps for value
drift. It's in excellent shape, cosmetically, with all original knobs
and switches, but it has no cage or case.
It contains telefunken 12au7's and 12ax7's (except one, in the phase
splitter of the power amp section which is a 7025) and Amperex
EL34/6ca7's in the output stage.
I posted it for best offer, and the best I've recieved to date is $150.
If you are interested or want some more info, please email me privately.
Thanks,
Gary Markowitz
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------
"Into the keyboard, thru the processor, off the NIC, past the gateway,
nothing but Net"
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David N. Barnett)
Subject: Online Swap Meet - JBL
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 02:40:17 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n203
Available late next week:
4 - JBL 2202 12" woofers
2 - JBL 2445 2"-exit compression drivers
2 - DDS 60-degree horns for 2445s
All well-used but good.
$600/set, or best offer, plus shipping from Arkansas, USA.
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Online Swap Meet: Lots of stuff
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 08:15:04 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n102
There's a guy here in town selling a whole lot of 'bargain' stuff and
cleaning out his garage. Thought I'd post it in case anyone was interested.
His email address is je2@flash.net
Steve
>>>>>>
Audio guys. Still cleaning out the garage. Can finally see the floor.
Have a few items left
that need to go. All sold as-is. Most need some kind of repair (unless
noted). Plus ship.
1. Altec - 309A Stereo Tuner - tube model. nice styling. works but needs
work. ex. $45
2. Altec -(1) 511/802 horn + driver combination. altec green. ex . $150
3. Allen "Rhondo" - 6L6 organ amp. No tubes. Have no idea as to it
working condition.
20-20k potted output. Looks like ACRO. $40
4. Bell - 3DT - 6V6 Stereo amp. First stereo amp made. @1956. Beautiful
bronze hammer
tone with cream speckle-tone cab. brass faceplate with white knobs. Cool
styling! missing
two knobs. works. vg. $50
5. Bell - 3DT - as above but earlier version with potted trannies.
(which have been removed
by a previous owner!!). Replacement trannies installed. ex++ $60
6. Bozak - BC-800 (?) - 8" aluminum cone full range. ceramic . $25
7. Dyna - PAM 1 pre-amp. single. average condition. untested. $25
8. Goodmans Audiom 955 - 15" LF speakers. (pr) 50's vintage. 3"vc.
Large alnico magnet.
One perfect. One with repaired cone. Perfect working condition.
Guaranteed. $125 pr
9. Heath - WA-2P pre-amp. single. average. condition. untested. $15
10. Harmon Kardon - TA-7000x stereo tube rcvr. w/cab. 7591. No output's
(of cource).
untested. interesting styling. $30
11. JBL - 2122 - 12" alnico LF woofer. Alnico. For L-100. exc. $50
12. McGowan MG-30 - 6L6G mono integrated amp. Early 50's. Grey
hammertone w/white
knobs. Triad transformers. All taps inc 250 & 500 ohms. Faceplate has
major acne. missing
one knob. otherwise vg. Untested $30 (trannies worth that)
13. McIntosh C-4 preamp. mono. average condition. untested. $75
14. McIntosh C-24 solid state preamp. g/vg. works but has filter cap
hum. $125
15. Pioneer SX-40 Stereo Receiver. 6BM8. Early Japanese stuff. Super
nice build quality.
Attractive gold faceplate, grey cab. Worked briefly. B+ went down so who
knows. $55
16. Radio Craftsman - RC-10. Mono Tuner/Pre-amp. Nice chrome. Broken
dial glass.
Untested. Probably good for knobs/parts. vg $20.
17. Radio Craftsman - C-400 6V6 mono amp. Parts unit. Someone worked
this thing over.
Replaced power trannie (as most have). Holes drilled in the oddest
places. Output trannie
ok. If you had another one with crummy chrome and a good power trannie
you could probably
use this one for a rebuild. $40
18. RCA MI- 11223 monitor amp. PP6L6. Vg. Someone worked this guy over.
Lots of new
caps etc. Probably works but I've never taken the time to figure out how
the jones plugs work
so.....$55
19. RCA - MI 12511 mono AM/FM tuner. Ex. Cool 50's styling. built for
custom installation
(so no cab). Gold/Chrome faceplate with Grey/Blue accents. Tuning eye
tube. Worked briefly. Sounded very nice, but B+ went down. $45
20. RCA - 50's vintage Mono Reel to Reel. Pro unit w/built in pre-amp.
Rack mount. Balanced
input. accepts 7"reel. Complete, but untested. Nice piece. $75
21. Schumerlich 5881 stereo amp. Good for 25 watts. This is one serious
rascal. Burgandy 'ish crinke chasis. New caps. good tubes. Dual power
supply. Large he-man footprint. All taps inc 250 & 500 ohm. works great.
$125 ex++
22. Schumerlich 5881 mono amp/pre-amp. Same as above, but mono. Tons of
inputs. works but
not rebuilt like above. $75
23. Also have two or three tube caddies. $40 large. $25 small
24. 12AU7 pulls. $1.00 ea untested. Have about 300 or so various mfg.
no hot rod stuff
25. 12AX7 pulls. $2.00 ea. untested. Have about 200 or so "
26. 12BH7 pulls. $2.00 ea. untested. Have about 100 or so "
No one'zies two'zies on the tubes. either buy a bunch or not at all.
Have tested some of these in the past. very few duds. most will be
serviceable.
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Online Swap Meet: Lots of stuff
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 08:29:50 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n103
Steve Van Osdell wrote:
>
> There's a guy here in town selling a whole lot of 'bargain' stuff and
> cleaning out his garage. Thought I'd post it in case anyone was interested.
> His email address is je2@flash.net
>
> Steve
>
> >>>>>>
> Audio guys. Still cleaning out the garage. Can finally see the floor.
> Have a few items left
> that need to go. All sold as-is. Most need some kind of repair (unless
> noted). Plus ship.
Joenetters,
I bought a Heathkit SA-2 from this guy for fifty bucks on his first
goaround. This is the stereo version of the EA-2 which uses PP 6BQ5s.
It needs a bit of tidying up, as he indicated, but all-in-all is in
quite good condition. One recently sold on ebay for $187.50 or $178.50,
I forget which. He returned my initial call and we chatted for quite
some time. He seems like a nice guy. I sent payment by MO and he
shipped the amp out right away. I am very satisfied with the my
dalaings with him, so would not hesitqate to go for anything he has that
looks interesting.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: tronan@orion.it.luc.edu (Thomas Ronan)
Subject: online swapmeet, monster horn systems(!)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:00:02 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n178
For Sale:
1 pair of larger Seeburg speakers: these use Altec 811 horns and 806 16
ohm compression drivers as well as a _pair_ of 15" alnico woofers per side.
They are quite a rocking horn system, with more bass than a typical VOT
setup and far cooler (though similar to) the Altec Valencia. They are in
massive cabinets, and in very good if not excellent shape. $1100 or best
offer.
2nd pair of larger Seeburgs: these "cabinetless" versions of the above
speaker. I have drivers, horns, and crossovers, as well as the ports and
front baffle from the old speaker...I can supply cabinet dimensions if you
want to put something together for yourself. $700 or best offer.
1 pair of smaller Seeburg speakers: these also have Altec 811 horns, 806
16 ohm compression drivers, but use 12" woofers in a much smaller (but
still beefy box). These boxes are rough, but still usable. $450 or best
offer.
I also have a pair of Altec VOT speakers, price variable depending upon
which components you prefer (i.e. 802 or 806 or 808 drivers, 811 or 511
horns...etc)
I am located in Chicago and prefer pickup on these speakers, but I will
consider shipping them for the right offer.
Tom
- ------
Thomas Ronan tronan@orion.it.luc.edu
1045 W. Montana, Chicago, IL 60614 773.528.0882
Lowther Club of America, Chicago Representative
=========================================================================
From: Plaato@aol.com
Subject: Online Swapmeet-NOS Big HV Oil Caps
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:44:26 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n065
Joes,
I have the following for sale:
2 Pyramid 10uf 2000 volt Oil caps $10.00 each
size = 6.5" high x 4.5"wide x 4"deep in Grey Rectangular cans
1 Pyramid 15uf 2000 volt oil cap $15.00
size = 8.5" high x 4.5" wide x 4" deep in Olive drab green rectangular can
Please respond via email to: Plaato@aol.com
Henry Platt
=========================================================================
From: E Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: online swap meet: NOS G.E. 211/vt-4C
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:36:16 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n029
NOS J.A.N. G.E. 211/VT-4C
each tested for harmonic distortion for better matching of pairs.
$75 ea, or $150 pr., plus shipping.
Ed B.
(503) 408-0405
tube@teleport.com
www.teleport.com/~tube
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: On-line swapmeet, prices reduced
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 10:31:28 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n057
Still trying to make room in my little apartment.
1. Spendor SP1s. Near mint condition, except the bottoms are rough from
spiking. Teak finish. Have boxes and papers. Wonderful speakers, high
impedence, 89dB, great with 300Bs. Asking $500 plus shipping.
2. Matching stands. Currently lead filled, heavy and bulky, but can empty.
Asking $100 plus shipping.
Will consider trades. Hey, make me an offer if you are interested. The
worst I can say is no, and I won't be insulted.
Thanks for the bandwidth.
Steve C.
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: ON-LINE SWAP MEET-record cleaner and other stuff
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:01:12 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n114
You've read about them...you've wanted one...here's your chance. For
sale, a Nitty Gritty 1.5 fi record cleaner. This is the one with the
integrated fluid resevoir and pump, plus the motor driven capstan, for
automated single sided cleaning. In mint condition, fully functional and
ready to spiff up your grundgy old LPs. With box and instructions. $200
plus shipping.
Also still for sale, Spendor SP-1 and S100 loudspeakers.
Wanted: Cool arm for my Thorens 124. I'm thinking SME, maybe 3012 or
SME-V.
Thanks for the bw.
Steve C.
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: ON-LINE SWAP MEET-record cleaner and other stuff
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:36:23 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n115
The Nitty Gritty has been sold.
Speakers are still available, though :-)
Thanks,
Steve C.
=========================================================================
From: Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
Subject: online swap meet: seeking gear
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:53:58 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n068
hi all.
my friend is looking for a "starter set" of gear. our focus has been on
finding a good integrated tube amp as they seem to be far and away the best
bargains.
if anyone knows of or has for sale a 20-40wpc tube integrated a la fisher
or scott or sca-35 kind of thing, email me and i'll put you in touch with
the buyer. price range is $150 and under for a complete, working, ready to
use unit which might perhaps need some down-the-line sorting out. i prefer
fisher simply because i know it.
also, if anyone has advice or ideas on what specifically we should look
for, let me know. and if any of you have some homebrew concoction that you
might let go of in that price category, or some separates, feel free to
mail me, but a phono stage is a must.
in addition we are looking for a CHEAP usable turbtable (currently found a
dual 1254 for $30 complete with working cartridge, probably will get that)
and a quality "beginner" cd player (i can modify to make it great),
currently we found a NAD 302 with some minor clock mods for $125 that looks
like a bargain; plus he wants a surround processor, the old kind (dolby
MP) will do, with a rear channel amplifier in the 20+W range, found one so
far for $35 but one with a remote volume control would be a big bonus (i
got mine in trade for about six CD's). i know, mega cheapskate, LIKE ME!
if we could find a serviceable sony or philips or whatever cd player for
$50ish it would be good. remember i said a STARTER SYSTEM. this guy is my
business partner and every dime he has is going into our company right now
(just like me). serviceable imperfect stuff is OK as we have much more
time and expertise than money.
thanks-
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
josh_karnes:
shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: online swap meet: seeking gear
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:47:10 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n068
Josh Karnes wrote:
>
> hi all.
>
> my friend is looking for a "starter set" of gear. our focus has been on
> finding a good integrated tube amp as they seem to be far and away the best
> bargains.
>
> if anyone knows of or has for sale a 20-40wpc tube integrated a la fisher
> or scott or sca-35 kind of thing, email me and i'll put you in touch with
> the buyer. price range is $150 and under for a complete, working, ready to
> use unit which might perhaps need some down-the-line sorting out. i prefer
> fisher simply because i know it.
>
> also, if anyone has advice or ideas on what specifically we should look
> for, let me know. and if any of you have some homebrew concoction that you
> might let go of in that price category, or some separates, feel free to
> mail me, but a phono stage is a must.
>
> in addition we are looking for a CHEAP usable turbtable (currently found a
> dual 1254 for $30 complete with working cartridge, probably will get that)
> and a quality "beginner" cd player (i can modify to make it great),
> currently we found a NAD 302 with some minor clock mods for $125 that looks
> like a bargain; plus he wants a surround processor, the old kind (dolby
> MP) will do, with a rear channel amplifier in the 20+W range, found one so
> far for $35 but one with a remote volume control would be a big bonus (i
> got mine in trade for about six CD's). i know, mega cheapskate, LIKE ME!
> if we could find a serviceable sony or philips or whatever cd player for
> $50ish it would be good. remember i said a STARTER SYSTEM. this guy is my
> business partner and every dime he has is going into our company right now
> (just like me). serviceable imperfect stuff is OK as we have much more
> time and expertise than money.
>
> thanks-
> -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> josh_karnes:
>
> shileen's husband, jordan and hannah's daddy, guitarist, drummer,
> composer, songwriter, audiophile, computer geek, mechanic, carpenter,
> wannabe gourmet chef, keeper of the faith <><
Josh,
Check out ebay. There are several interesting items there. One is a
Heathkit DA-281 using 7591s, said to test good. This auction ends in
at 4:44 PM (West Coast time) today. So if interested, you had better
jump on it right away. Though you might want to wait until the closing
minutes to place your bid. The current bid is $91. Check it out at:
http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=915169
There is an older and somewhat lesser, though still good, Heath SA-2
stereo integrated amp (PP 6BQ5s) ending tomorrow. The bid is currently
at $56. From the above address, you can find it (and some others,
including receivers) by checking "Consumer Electronice:Auctions Ending
Today". I bought a Fisher 500C there last week, but haven't received it
yet. Yes I know, I pussed out and bought something that was already
tweaked in with new tubes because I seldom get past the talking stage
anymore, it seems. I have bought and sold there several times recently
and have always been satisfied with the results, sometimes exceedingly
so.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David N. Barnett)
Subject: Re: online swap meet: seeking gear
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:04:18 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n068
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:53:58 -0500, Josh Karnes <karnes@usa.net>
wrote:
>in addition we are looking for a CHEAP usable turbtable ...
Try to find an AR XA. The best "cheap 'n cheerful" turntable in my
opinion.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: online swap meet - Sun SV-PM200, Medallion cabinets
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:40:55 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n021
Well, the show is over, and it's bill paying time!
I have one of the three Sun amps that were demoed at VSAC left.
This amp seems to have been favorite of the three at the show, and
apparently has received the best review of the three in the Japanese mags.
It is the SV-PM200 integrated, using (Sovtek) 6SN7s, triode connected
(Tesla) EL-34s, and a (Chinese) 5AR4. 5 watts per channel, three inputs and
a tape loop.
It's a very cool two tone, charcoal gray transformer cans on a really
pretty reddish/maroonish chassis.
The build quality is excellent, I suspect this was built by Uchida san
himself.
There is one teeny scratch, not all the way through the paint, maybe 1/8"
long, on the chassis, I guess it happened at the show.
The list price is $1077, I will take $540 plus shipping. As my friend
Victor Meurisse would say, "Do you not read 'bargain'?"
The Sun amps were demoed on my PM2As at the show. I thought they
complemented the Lowthers very nicely, as they all seem ever so slightly
laid back in the midrange. I tried Mullard EL34s and 5AR4, and Sylvania
6SN7 GTBs (nope, not included), and that little sucker sounds really nice!
Also, I have the pair of finished Lowther Club of America Medallion
cabinets used to demo my PM2As sitting in my warehouse. Tony Glynn has
authorized the sale of these at the unassembled price of $1300 per pair
(regular finished price is $1800), you haul. They are crated, don't bring a
Miata.
Drivers are available.
Please respond privately
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Tuck Thean" <tthean@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: online swap meet - Sun SV-PM200, Medallion cabinets
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:54:01 PDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n021
HI Doc, I will buy the amp if it is still available. Thanks.
- --Tuck Thean--
>From owner-sound@lists.io.com Fri Sep 12 09:39:28 1997
>Received: (from majordom@localhost)
> by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA00800
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>Message-Id: <199709121547.LAA35298@mail1y-int.prodigy.net>
>From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
>To: <sound@deliverator.io.com>
>Subject: online swap meet - Sun SV-PM200, Medallion cabinets
>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:40:55 -0700
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Sender: owner-sound@lists.io.com
>Precedence: bulk
>
>Well, the show is over, and it's bill paying time!
>
>I have one of the three Sun amps that were demoed at VSAC left.
>This amp seems to have been favorite of the three at the show, and
>apparently has received the best review of the three in the Japanese
mags.
>It is the SV-PM200 integrated, using (Sovtek) 6SN7s, triode connected
>(Tesla) EL-34s, and a (Chinese) 5AR4. 5 watts per channel, three inputs
and
>a tape loop.
>It's a very cool two tone, charcoal gray transformer cans on a really
>pretty reddish/maroonish chassis.
>The build quality is excellent, I suspect this was built by Uchida san
>himself.
>There is one teeny scratch, not all the way through the paint, maybe
1/8"
>long, on the chassis, I guess it happened at the show.
>
>The list price is $1077, I will take $540 plus shipping. As my friend
>Victor Meurisse would say, "Do you not read 'bargain'?"
>
>The Sun amps were demoed on my PM2As at the show. I thought they
>complemented the Lowthers very nicely, as they all seem ever so
slightly
>laid back in the midrange. I tried Mullard EL34s and 5AR4, and Sylvania
>6SN7 GTBs (nope, not included), and that little sucker sounds really
nice!
>
>Also, I have the pair of finished Lowther Club of America Medallion
>cabinets used to demo my PM2As sitting in my warehouse. Tony Glynn has
>authorized the sale of these at the unassembled price of $1300 per pair
>(regular finished price is $1800), you haul. They are crated, don't
bring a
>Miata.
>Drivers are available.
>
>Please respond privately
>
>Doc B.
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: online swap meet - Sun SV-PM200, Medallion cabinets
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:31:00 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n022
Jeez, I should be a game show host.
I seem to be able to sell the Sun amp twice per hour.
The only fair way I can come up with is to award the amp to the guy who got
through my half assed prodigy e-mail first.
And the winner is-------------
Tuck Thean!
He got through at 11:56, then a guy got through at 12:20, then a guy got
through at 1:01.
Wow. I wish I had half a dozen of these to sell.
Thanks guys.
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "E. Billeci" <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Online Swap Meet - Tamura F-2013 S.E.Opt trans
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:11:33 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n445
FS: Pair NIB, (unused) F-2013 S.E. Opt trans. These are 10K pri, 40 watt
rating.
I seem to remember these came out on the top of the heap in the last Vacume
Tube
Valley trannie shootout. Takuji Yamamoto, a friend of Sakuma, used this
trans in
his 212 SE amp. (It seems better suited to a SE 211/845,) $725pr
Thanks for the bandwidth.
Ed Billeci
tube@teleport.com
www.teleport.com/~tube
(there's some new amps up on the constructor's page)
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Re:Online Swap Meet- Tubes for Big Weird Project
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:38:19 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n349
Chris Beck wrote:
> Hi everyone. I'm new to the list, but I thought I'd jump into this as Svetlana triodes are dear t
o me.
(snip)
If anyone is interested, I have a platinum-matched quad of Svetlana 811-10's for sale, NIB. I believ
e I have stashed away a set of four E.F. Johnson sockets (used) to match. Best offer over $50 dollar
s, I will ship first if you like. (Joenet members only!) Buyer pays shipping. Please reply privately
.
Cheers!
S.G.
- --
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
=========================================================================
From: "E. Billeci" <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: online swap meet- tubes-tubes-tubes!
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:34:04 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n541
NOS: (new, or un-used)
2A3 $60 ea
45 $60 ea,
211/VT-4C $75 ea
V-70D $120 pr (one pair only)
Used:
10, 10Y, 210, 810, 811, 50, 250,
W.E. 300B, 350B, 310A, 212, 275A, 252A, 436A, 417A, 437A,
Bartolucci model 2 interstage S.E. or PP secondary (1:1, 3K, 180ma)Pr
model 30 OPt trans S.E. (5K, 300ma)Pr
*Best offer on each* (sorry, no price list)
Also, 6BQ5 PP OPT trans. Various brands, Knight, Pioneer, Kenwood, Etc
$20 pr
-------Grab Bag-----------
The following tubes retail for over $2k at A.E.S.. Yours for $150 obo,
plus shipping.
Misc. Tubes
N.O.S = ( new in original box, old stock )
N.N.B.= ( new, un-used, but no box )
JAN = ( joint army navy / military) MP = (matched pair)
Otherwise, all tubes are used/pulls.
6360A
RCA (x1, NOS)
6417
? (x1)
6476
Sylv (x1)
6689
Amperex (x4, NOS)
6888
Sylv (x2, green label)
7734/6GE8
Westinghouse (x1)
Tung-Sol (x3, NOS)
1D21/SN4
(X1) SYLVANIA
3V4
(X3) PHILCO
(X1) RCA
(X1) SYLV
5BC3
(X2) RCA (MP)
5V6
(X2) N.I.B RCA, RAYTHEON
6AD10
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
6AL3/EY88
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
6AN8
(X3) N.I.B MISC. U.S. BRANDS
(X2) N.I.B. RAYTHEON
(X3) N.I.B. G.E.
(X3) N.I.B.TUNG-SOL
(X6) N.I.B RCA
(X1) SYLV
(X1) N.I.B. MULLARD
6BG6
Sylv (x2)
Westing (x1, NOS)
RCA (x1) (x1,NOS)
GE (x1)
Raytheon (x3, NOS)
N-U (x1,NOS)
6BN11
(X1) N.I.B SYLV
6C4
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. MULLARD
6CT3
(X1) N.I.B. ZENITH
6DQ6B
(X4) N.I.B. LINDAHL
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
6DV4
(X1) N.I.B. ZENITH
6ES8/ECC189
(X5) N.I.B. I.T.T.
(X3) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. G.E.
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
6EV5
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
6FH8
(X1) G.E.
6FQ5A
GE (x1, NOS)
RCA (x1, NOS)
6G6G (st shape)
(X2) N.I.B. N-UNION JAN
(X1) N.I.B (bulk pack) HYTRON
(X1) RCA
6GB5/EL-504
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
6GE5
(X2) N.I.B. G.E.
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
6GF7A
(X4) N.I.B. AMPEREX
(X4) N.I.B. RAYTHEON
(X1) N.I.B SYLVANIA
(X1) N.I.B. G.E.
(X1) N.I.B. LINDAHL
6GJ5
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
6GJ7/ECF-801
(X1) N.I.B. AMPEREX
6GK5/6FQ5A
(X4) N.I.B RCA, SYLV, G.E.
6GK6
(X2) N.I.B. I.T.T.
6GU7
(X3) N.I.B.
6GV5
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
6GW6
(X1) N.I.B. G.E.
6J5 WGT
Rayth (x1, NOS)
6HA5/6HM5
(X3) N.I.B. AMPEREX
6HF5
(X2) N.I.B. L.T.T.
(X1) N.I.B. ZENITH
6HS5
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. L.T.T. (USA)
6HS6
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
6HV5A
(X5) N.I.B AMPEREX
(X1) N.I.B SYLV
(X1) N.I.B LINDAHL
6JC6C
(X2) N.I.B. AMPEREX
6JG6A
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(x1) N.I.B. SYLV
6JM6A
(X2) N.I.B. RCA
6JT6A
(X1) N.I.B. I.T.T.
6K6GT
(X17) MISC. U.S. BRANDS
6KD6
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
6KY8A
(X1) N.I.B. SYLVANIA
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
6LB6
(X4) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
6LF8
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
6LR6
(X4) N.I.B. LINDAHL
6MF8
(X2) N.I.B. LINDAHL
6U10
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
(X1) SYLV
6X5GT
(X9) MISC U.S. BRANDS
7AF7
(X1) PHILCO
7B7
(X1)
7F8
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(X2) CROSLY
11AF9
(X1) N.I.B. ZENITH
12DQ6/12GW6
(X2) N.I.B. ITT/LINDAHL
13J10/13Z10
(X4) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
17BF11
(X1) N.I.B. ZENITH
17JB6A
(X2) N.I.B. RCA
17JF6
(X1) N.I.B. ZENITH
17JM6
(X1) N.I.B. ZENITH
17Y9
(X1)N.I.B RCA
21HB5
(X2) N.I.B. LINDAHL
21JS6
(X1) N.I.B. LINDAHL
22JF6
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
22KM6
(X1) N.I.B. AMPEREX
22KV6A
(X1) N.I.B. G.E.
(X1) N.I.B. LINDAHL
24LQ6/24JE6C
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
26LW6
(X1) N.I.B. G.E.
(X1) N.I.B SYLV
29KQ6
(X1) N.I.B. LINDAHL
29LE6
(X1) N.I.B. RAYTHEON
31JS6C
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B G.E.
31LQ6
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. LINDAHL
33GY7A
(X1) N.I.B. SYLV
(X1) N.I.B. RCA
(X1) N.I.B. LINDAHL
35LR6
(X3) N.I.B. LINDAHL
38HE7
(X2) N.I.B. RCA
40KD6/36KD6
(X4) N.I.B. I.T.T.
(X1) N.I.B. G.E.
40KG6A
(X1) LINDAHL
Ed Billeci
tube@teleport.com
=========================================================================
From: "Jeff Mai" <jmai@fn.net>
Subject: Re: Online Swap Meet - update plus some new stuff
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:39:52 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n376
I have sold most of the items. Here is what is left.
1 Altec 803B multicell horn with single throat adapter, good condition. $75
Pr. Altec 291-16K HF drivers, excellent condition. $300 I haven't figured
out why these are not as well regarded as 288s. Sure, you need a tweeter
above 10khz, but they sound smoother than 288s in the midrange. They cost
less, too. (Altec doesn't consider them second quality; when new they are
the same price as the 288s were and 299s are.) In any case, I listened and
I chose these over 288Cs and 288Ks in my system.
Pr. of DIY Morrison style pipe speakers (see SP#6) This is a slapped
together (ugly) midrange and tweeter module only (no bass) from JCs
article. Includes the Focal 7V and TI120 drivers and the passive crossover
components specified in the article. The drivers are in perfect condition.
$250
Jeff Mai
(316)942-3304
=========================================================================
From: Plaato <Plaato@aol.com>
Subject: Online Swapmeet WTB or trade: Dynaudio D54 , Altec 806A or802A
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:51:16 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n128
Joes,
Anyone Got a pair of one of the above they wanna get rid of? Altecs must be
16 Ohm. I have a pair of Altec 800 Hz 8 ohm crossovers in mint shape to trade.
Thanks for the bandwidth:
Henry Platt
Plaato@aol.com
=========================================================================
From: E Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Online Swap Meet:WTB Tannoy grey LSU/HF/15L
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:54:14 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n120
Dumpster diving paid off this weekend with a single Tannoy grey
15" LSU/HF/15L, with a matching Tannoy crossover.
(I love dumpster diving, but it's getting harder to get those
new-fangled locks off of some of them big blue trash bins;-)
Anyone have any advise or info on this unit? (I saved all the Tannoy
threads, only to have them vanish with my last version of Eudora)
I would be interested in finding another, and I offer a fine selection
of cra.., uh.., gear, in trade. Heck, even if you don't have a grey 15"
Tannoy LSU/HF/15L for trade/sale, you might want to see what kind of shi..,
uh.., treasure, I am trying to clear out.
Look at: www.teleport.com/~tube in the "Garage" for the list(s), and some
JPG's of the uh.., stuff.
Ed
tube@teleport.com
www.teleport.com/~tube
BTW, I picked up one of those tubes I was wanting for my next project. The
851 has an 11V, 15A fil, and a class A plate Diss of 600 watts.
Anyone with insight, circuit ideas, or specs for this largish tube please
help me out. (I could also use a couple more. Heck, everyone needs at least a
couple of these)
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Online Swap: Telefunken 12AU7s
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:07:17 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n183
Just got a couple dozen Telefunken 12AU7 tubes. Most or all smooth
plates, from a cursory look. Pulled from working equipment. I know most
of you are sensible experimenters who'd rather have a nice 6SN7 than these
overhyped industrial types, but still, someone may have a use for 'em. :}
I'd rather trade them away than sell them. I'm looking for nice vintage
push-pull OPTs, interstage xformers, power supply chokes, or maybe some
DHTs. What do you have?
I figured i'd give Joenetters a shot at them before going to the
rec.audio.tubes vultures. I wouldn't mind a reference to a reputable tube
dealer, either, if i can't find a Joenetter to trade with.
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: LC <lorenaudio@hotmail.com>
Subject: Online Swap: Trade, or WTB
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:37:34 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n122
Hi All. The amps are coming along alright, but I need a couple of
things. I have 4 6B4G's, 2 45's, and 1 71A. What I need are 2 filament
trannys for my 2A3's, and 4 100uf filter caps (good quality, but really
anything which will work). Right now the amp either oscillates (B+
phisically hums the amp, taking out any one of the 3 tubes stops this)
w/o the filter cap, or with it (I do not have an adequate one at the
time being) it just heats the filter cap and the 5U4 runs out of
control. Anyone want to make a trade for the tubes? Thanks, later
Loren C.
=========================================================================
From: "Christopher J. Galbraith" <cjg2@concentric.net>
Subject: Online swap--tube 'fest+horns
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:50:01 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n295
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BD8A47.E4962C40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gang, here's a list of stash items I'm liquidating...e-mail me if prices =
are out of line--I tried to do the AES minus 30-50% thing on tubes. All =
plus shipping (I'll handle them for free :)
Altec 311-60 horns, beee-autiful midrange, 300 hz, 1.4" throat, $300/bo =
(pair)
Pair o' UTC LS6L4 (original LS-case), as used on Marantz T-1!! $350/bo =
(pair)
Tubes (all used/tested excellent on TV-7D/U unless noted)
(2) Globe 50s. Luscious. $175/pair
(4) Globe 45s. $160/all four
(4) WE271A (Indirectly heated triodes, not a 71A/171A!), globes. =
$50/all four
(1) RCA/Cunningham single-plate 2A3--wish I had a pair. $75/bo
(1) WE310A (NOS), box disintegrated, in wrapper. $25/bo
(1) WE101F, "tennis ball". $(you tell me)
(1) WE328A (NOS) $--no clue
(3) Tung-Sol 6550s--pretty close in mutual cond., how 'bout $45/all =
three
(2) GE VT-4C (NOS)--one box dust, with cool spec sheets and wrappers, =
1942 dates, $200/pair
(2) United 838 (NOS)--look 'em up--like 211s, in boxes+wrappers, =
$175/pair
Various older tubes (26, 76, 6C6, etc)--STs, globes...let me know if ya =
need some.
Thanks for the read--e-mail: cjg2@concentric.net -Chris
- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BD8A47.E4962C40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Gang, here's a list of stash items =
I'm=20
liquidating...e-mail me if prices are out of line--I tried to do the AES =
minus=20
30-50% thing on tubes. All plus shipping (I'll handle them for =
free=20
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Altec 311-60 horns, beee-autiful =
midrange, 300=20
hz, 1.4" throat, $300/bo (pair)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Pair o' UTC LS6L4 (original =
LS-case), as used on=20
Marantz T-1!! $350/bo (pair)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Tubes (all used/tested excellent on =
TV-7D/U=20
unless noted)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(2) Globe 50s. Luscious. =
$175/pair</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(4) Globe 45s. $160/all =
four</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(4) WE271A (Indirectly heated =
triodes, not a=20
71A/171A!), globes. $50/all four</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(1) RCA/Cunningham single-plate =
2A3--wish I had=20
a pair. $75/bo</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(1) WE310A (NOS), box disintegrated, =
in=20
wrapper. $25/bo</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(1) WE101F, "tennis =
ball". $(you=20
tell me)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(1) WE328A (NOS) $--no =
clue</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(3) Tung-Sol 6550s--pretty close in =
mutual=20
cond., how 'bout $45/all three</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(2) GE VT-4C (NOS)--one box dust, =
with cool spec=20
sheets and wrappers, 1942 dates, $200/pair</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(2) United 838 (NOS)--look 'em =
up--like 211s, in=20
boxes+wrappers, $175/pair</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Various older =
tubes (26, 76,=20
6C6, etc)--STs, globes...let me know if ya need some.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks for the read--e-mail: =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:cjg2@concentric.net">cjg2@concentric.net</A>=20
- -Chris</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BD8A47.E4962C40--
=========================================================================
From: ROBERT ROSENTHAL <RBTR@mail.rkd.snds.com>
Subject: online swap:/ ! Wanted ! UTC CG-16 output trans
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:41:31 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n076
Greetings All,
It's got a round gray case, multiple taps. Mine is solo.
Regards, Robert
RBTR@SNDS.COM or (815)226-6123 days
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: ON TOPIC QUESTIONS!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:53:38 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n092
At 11:32 PM -0500 10/28/97, pitaro@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I have some questions which I hope people can help me with.
>
>1. I am building the RCA phono stage. To those people who have tried it,
>what does it sound like? There are three capacitors that are marked with
>an asterix 3.3nF, 10nF and 180pF. I assume these are part of the RIAA
>eq'ing. If so, what other values have other people tried.
>
>2. I've been thinking about the heaters for the 12AX7's. I understand
>there's a +/- 0.3V variance allowed from the 6.3V. I have a 6.3 tap
>but would I need to regulate the voltage? This has concerned me since
>Frank D's note explaing how noisy the voltage regulators are.
If you use a bridge rectifier, you'll get about 7.5 volts. You can then
select the proper dropping resistors or chokes in your filter stages and
you'll be fine. You can run 12AX7s between 6 and 6.6 volts with no
problem, I believe. I would strongly suggest a 100mH, 2A choke in the
filter--it's quiet and brings the sound very close to AC filaments.
>3. Can someone please explain to me the relative advantages and
>disadvantages of doing all the RIAA eq'ing between tube stages versus
>doing it seperately after different tubes?
>
>4. Reichert and others claim that it is bad to use any plastic caps
>in amps. There are a lot of so called quality (read, "audiophile") pots on
>the market which use coductive plastic. Why is it ok to use them? I know
>carbon pots sound better but they are generally noisy. Can anyone
>recommend a low noise carbon pot?
I don't care for the plastic pots at all. A carbon pot isn't *that* noisy
:-). You'll be using it at the end of the phonostage, going into you're
line amplification, so really this isn't a problem, IMHO. AES sells very
cheap surplus carbon pots which are pretty good sounding. I don't *think*
I would use plastic caps, they can be a bit sluggish, but with a phono
stage you want accuracy above all so maybe BGs, mica, tantalum or film...??
>
>5. I've even been considering moving to a stepped attenuator but for a
>couple of issues; a) cost, b) having to test every single resistor on the
>market till I find one I like! What suggestions can people make here?
One thing you could do is build the circuit and use a carbon pot. Find a
reasonable volume setting, measure the split on the pot, then buy a pair of
each type of resistor--Holcos, Rikens, carbon comps, whatever-- in these
values. Replace the pot with a simple voltage divider using each type of
resistor and see which ones sound best to you. It'd be a good way to find
out what sort you'd like to use for a full stepped attenuator.
Or just try this with whatever amp or preamp you have handy at the moment.
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Re: ON TOPIC QUESTIONS!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:46:27 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n092
Yo Harry Dude,
Firstoff, I have not build the RCA Job. I have played about with a lot
of RIAA Stuff recently though.
> 1. I am building the RCA phono stage. To those people who have tried it,
> what does it sound like? There are three capacitors that are marked with
> an asterix 3.3nF, 10nF and 180pF. I assume these are part of the RIAA
> eq'ing. If so, what other values have other people tried.
I think the Asterisk denotes that these Values are "tweakable".
Best to get a propper Signal-generator (highly stabilised low distortion
Sinewave) and build a Lipshitz Nework with close tolerance Components.
Then finetune to less than 0.05db to the RIAA Curve. BTW, I'm only using
1% tolerance Polystyrene Cap's for RIAA Networks with siginficant
paralelling to reduce the influence of the residual Inductance and to
get even better accuracy (I'd paralell 10 1nF 1% for the 10nF for
example, as that gives a better than 0.3% Tolerance Cap).
> 2. I've been thinking about the heaters for the 12AX7's. I understand
> there's a +/- 0.3V variance allowed from the 6.3V. I have a 6.3 tap
> but would I need to regulate the voltage? This has concerned me since
> Frank D's note explaing how noisy the voltage regulators are.
I think, you should use a 15Volt LM340 and then use dropper-resistors
to every Filament (both heaters in each tube in series) with a 2200uf
or larger Low-ESR Cap (say a Panasonic HFQ or FA Series) across each
heater (will also act as soft-start for the heaters).
> 3. Can someone please explain to me the relative advantages and
> disadvantages of doing all the RIAA eq'ing between tube stages versus
> doing it seperately after different tubes?
It's just basically a different way of skinning the Cat. Doing it all
in one is "conceptually" cleaner and makes sure you do not need to pay
too much attention to what you follow the last stage (if there is an EQ
at the End of Stsge like in the Arthur Loesch Preamp, wiring capacitance
and such can set your RIAA EQ of target.
Doing it in one has the drawback that the RIAA EQ cannot be designed
from a Textbook as all three Time-constants (3180us,318us and 75us)
are interactive.
> 4. Reichert and others claim that it is bad to use any plastic caps
> in amps. There are a lot of so called quality (read, "audiophile") pots on
> the market which use coductive plastic. Why is it ok to use them? I know
> carbon pots sound better but they are generally noisy. Can anyone
> recommend a low noise carbon pot?
Well, here I say, much depends on how and what you listen to/for. Try it
out Yourself. Some people claim that only Metal-Film Pots (Vishay/Sfernice)
work. Othere will not touch anything but a stepped attenuator. Yet others
use old Allen-Brady Cabon Pot's and claim nothing can touch these.
In the End, trust YOUR OWN EARS and not anyone elses (Herb said so too,
several times).
> 5. I've even been considering moving to a stepped attenuator but for a
> couple of issues; a) cost, b) having to test every single resistor on the
> market till I find one I like! What suggestions can people make here?
Try Arn Rotcap Inc. (I'll dig out the web-address once I have moved - unless
someone else has got it handy).
They make ready-made ones with Holco Resistors. Price seems reasonable, I
calculated it through, buying an ELMA Switch and the Resistors myself is
more expensive than buying a Attenuator from him.
Later Thorsten.
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: ON TOPIC QUESTIONS!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:32:07 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n092
Hi all,
I have some questions which I hope people can help me with.
1. I am building the RCA phono stage. To those people who have tried it,
what does it sound like? There are three capacitors that are marked with
an asterix 3.3nF, 10nF and 180pF. I assume these are part of the RIAA
eq'ing. If so, what other values have other people tried.
2. I've been thinking about the heaters for the 12AX7's. I understand
there's a +/- 0.3V variance allowed from the 6.3V. I have a 6.3 tap
but would I need to regulate the voltage? This has concerned me since
Frank D's note explaing how noisy the voltage regulators are.
3. Can someone please explain to me the relative advantages and
disadvantages of doing all the RIAA eq'ing between tube stages versus
doing it seperately after different tubes?
4. Reichert and others claim that it is bad to use any plastic caps
in amps. There are a lot of so called quality (read, "audiophile") pots on
the market which use coductive plastic. Why is it ok to use them? I know
carbon pots sound better but they are generally noisy. Can anyone
recommend a low noise carbon pot?
5. I've even been considering moving to a stepped attenuator but for a
couple of issues; a) cost, b) having to test every single resistor on the
market till I find one I like! What suggestions can people make here?
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@shore.net>
Subject: Re: ON TOPIC QUESTIONS!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:26:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
At 02:46 PM 10/28/97 +0000,
Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enh wrote:
>
>
>Doing it [passive RIAA] in one has the drawback that the RIAA EQ cannot be
designed
>from a Textbook as all three Time-constants (3180us,318us and 75us)
>are interactive.
>
>
Not quite true. See the SJS web page.
JL
=========================================================================
From: Lancelot Dow <dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ON TOPIC QUESTIONS!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 97 17:48:41 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
Harry
I'll the other questions for others to answer.
4. Reichert and others claim that it is bad to use any plastic caps
in amps. There are a lot of so called quality (read, "audiophile") pots on
the market which use coductive plastic. Why is it ok to use them? I know
carbon pots sound better but they are generally noisy. Can anyone
recommend a low noise carbon pot?
Do carbons sound better? That's not been my experience. When I went
from carbon to conductive plastic years ago I heard a definite
improvement.
5. I've even been considering moving to a stepped attenuator but for a
couple of issues; a) cost, b) having to test every single resistor on the
market till I find one I like! What suggestions can people make here?
I think you're worrying too much here. When I decided to build a
stepped attenuator I too was constrained by cost. I decided to use
cheap metal films to start with and upgrade the most used positions to
Vishay or some similar high quality resistor later. The stepped
attenuator was SO MUCH better than the conductive plastic pot that, to
date (about five years later), I still haven't bothered with the
upgrading step. I will do one day though.
Lance
dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: ON TOPIC QUESTIONS!!!!!
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:45:30 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
Thanks to one and all who responded to my questions.
The general concensus was to definetely use an attenuator. Resistor of
choice was the Holco. The RCA circuit is supposed to sound good.
I guess I'll let you guys know MY opinion when its finished.
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@FinanceManager.Finance.FinanceAndInformation.enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Re(2): ON TOPIC QUESTIONS!!!!!
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:34:33 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n095
Hi,
> >Doing it [passive RIAA] in one has the drawback that the RIAA EQ
> >cannot be designed from a Textbook as all three Time-constants
> >(3180us,318us and 75us) are interactive.
>
> Not quite true. See the SJS web page.
That prooves my point. Calculate all timeconstants individually
and You will find that only the 318us (500Hz) is accurate from
the RC-Values. The 75uS Timeconstant calcualtes to almost 100uS!
The RCA RIAA Job BTW is quite a bit off absolute linearity
(>0.5db). If that is good or bad is another Story.
Later Thorsten
=========================================================================
From: long@robby.caltech.edu (Mark K. Long)
Subject: On Wall Speakers, SP 14?
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:11:00 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n177
Anyone know anything about the wall mounted speakers in
the first page of SP #14? There is no place to request
more information.
Anyone thought about what it takes to design a speaker
for this placement? Is it mostly tuning the response for
boundry reinforcement?
Mark
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com>
Subject: Re: On Wall Speakers, SP 14?
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:53:15 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n177
On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Mark K. Long wrote:
>
> Anyone know anything about the wall mounted speakers in the first page
> of SP #14? There is no place to request more information. > OOPS,
> still don't know how that happened. Anyway, call American Applied
> Acoustics at 916-666-1873 voice/ 916-666-6272 fax for more info on the
> speaker.
Joe SP Editor
=========================================================================
From: "George E. Cherhit" <gcherht@ns.net>
Subject: Re: On Wall Speakers, SP 14?
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:20:00 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n177
More can be found about this speaker at this web site:
http://www.americanpowerlight.com/
George Cherhit
Joe Roberts wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Mark K. Long wrote:
>
> >
> > Anyone know anything about the wall mounted speakers in the first page
> > of SP #14? There is no place to request more information. > OOPS,
> > still don't know how that happened. Anyway, call American Applied
> > Acoustics at 916-666-1873 voice/ 916-666-6272 fax for more info on the
> > speaker.
> Joe SP Editor
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@execpc.com>
Subject: * oops
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 10:44:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n087
Okay, so I forgot the asterisk on my last post. So shoot me! ;-) - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
=========================================================================
From: Carter Hendricks <carterh@crl.com>
Subject: oops!
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 22:06:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n382
I apologize for the repost of the
by-now-boring Diatone stuff.
Pete asked me to send what
I had and somehow it got
copied to the list, too. Oops.
--Carter
>Carter,
>I joined about a year ago, but I must have missed (at least mentally)
>any Diatone discussions. I certainly would appreciate whatever you
>can send me about them.
>Thanks,
>Pete
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Oops...
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:57:50 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n393
Folks:
Earlier I posted to the Joenet a URL for a page which allowed one to
"punch out" Kenneth Starr. I felt that this was a humorous site, and
thought that others might enjoy it. I realize that this is not a
politics discussion forum, but on the other hand, many people here post
topics that do not have to do with tubes, and in fact are political in
nature. I have already received one flame privately concerning this, and
possibly the flamer is right; I shouldn't have posted that here. If any
of you were offended by my post, please accept my apology.
Joe, I'm sorry if I have added to any angst on your list.
Sincerely,
Scott Grammer.
- --
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Now with Lemon Scented Borax!
=========================================================================
From: Fred Volz <fcv@emotiveaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Oops...
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:01:35 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n394
Scott Grammer wrote:
>
> Folks:
>
> Earlier I posted to the Joenet a URL for a page which allowed one to
> "punch out" Kenneth Starr. I felt that this was a humorous site, and
> thought that others might enjoy it.
Although I didn't get a chance to check out the above mentioned URL, I am
thinking that I would have found it to be humorous and would have enjoyed
it.
> I realize that this is not a
> politics discussion forum, but on the other hand, many people here post
> topics that do not have to do with tubes, and in fact are political in
> nature.
Like, for example, the 50 or so million postings on the dead fish thing?
> I have already received one flame privately concerning this, and
> possibly the flamer is right; I shouldn't have posted that here.
Hey, I know how it is. You get to know some folks on the list. You get to
feeling sorta', you know, comfortable. But, you must never do this! DON'T
SHARE! You must NEVER share!
> If any
> of you were offended by my post, please accept my apology.
If anyone is offended by my post, please accept my apology. But, also
realize that I don't care. At the risk of rejuvenating a thread that I
sincerely pray has expired, I have bigger fish to fry. I guess I just
think that in an environment where a free flow of ideas is encouraged,
people are bound to get off topic once in awhile. And, maybe, sometimes
someone might want to share a simple joke with the group (as in, one
small joke URL posting burried in a mountain of off topic ecowhatever
postings). Some people may think the joke is funny, others may not. If
the joke mentioned above was not to ones likeing, than one should
definately not laugh. It is really a matter of choice whether one chooses
to click on the URL or not.
I'll stop now, but to the person who blasted Mr. Grammer for his posting
please accept the following suggestion with the humor with which it is
intended. If you try bearing down, the stick might just pop out by
itself.
Fred Volz
=========================================================================
From: Bob Chernofsky <bobc@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Oops...
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:43:05 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n394
- -----Original Message-----
From: Fred Volz <fcv@emotiveaudio.com>
To: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: Oops...
>Scott Grammer wrote:
>>
>> Folks:
>>
>> Earlier I posted to the Joenet a URL for a page which allowed one to
>> "punch out" Kenneth Starr. I felt that this was a humorous site, and
>> thought that others might enjoy it.
>
Linda Tripp must be out here!!! Who else would be offended. Or maybe Monica
has gotten into tubes!!! Strange girl that Monica, most people air their
dirty laundry, she saves it for future DNA testing!!!
Bob
=========================================================================
From: Martin Needleman <mrndlmn@bayserve.net>
Subject: Oops. Eastwood correction (was Greenlee, drill press, etc.)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:47:42 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n142
Sorry dor the confusion. Eastwood does have a web site and will accept
catalog requests there but, apparently, not orders.
Their URL is http://www.eastwoodco.com
They have a toll free order/catalog request line at 1-800-345-1178
mrn
=========================================================================
From: "DFAT, Ankara" <ausemank@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Oops. Eastwood correction (was Greenlee, drill press, etc.)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:06:19 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n143
PLEASE DO NOT SEND ANY FURTHER MAIL
RECEIPIENT NO LONGER AT THIS ADDRESS
- ----------
> From: Martin Needleman <mrndlmn@bayserve.net>
> To: Ed Fausto <Ed_Fausto@colpal.com>
> Cc: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU>; Richard C Nevill
<rnevill@is.dal.ca>; Sound Practices List <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Subject: Oops. Eastwood correction (was Greenlee, drill press, etc.)
> Date: 24 Aralık 1997 Çarşamba 01:47
>
> Sorry dor the confusion. Eastwood does have a web site and will accept
> catalog requests there but, apparently, not orders.
>
> Their URL is http://www.eastwoodco.com
>
> They have a toll free order/catalog request line at 1-800-345-1178
>
> mrn
>
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: Oops, sorry about "advertising"
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:00:35 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n120
Patrick Currie wrote:
>
> Sorry guys -
>
> I thought that one had been directed just to me, because I did, in fact,
> have an ad on a web site recently. (It worked, too. Sold my car via the
> net to a guy who lives here in town.)
>
> Apparently, though, you were all lucky enough to receive it. - Pat
>
> Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
> (608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
Sorry dosen't cut it Pat,
Next time you are dumping a 355 or Lotus Esprit, or E-Type, please send
a private e-mail to me. I didn't see your ad on the list! The wife
said, Yes, she did get a kick out of her BMW/Isetta in the 60's but
dosen't want to relive that uphill experience again. ;-) On the other
hand I'd love to get another Lotus...Even the Brit's don't know how good
that car is; they're still hung up on the Jaguar! ( Hey! the switches in
both still melt down when called upon to do so.) ;-)
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: Oops, sorry about "advertising"
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:34:03 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n120
Sorry guys -
I thought that one had been directed just to me, because I did, in fact,
have an ad on a web site recently. (It worked, too. Sold my car via the
net to a guy who lives here in town.)
Apparently, though, you were all lucky enough to receive it. - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
=========================================================================
From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Oops, sorry about "advertising"
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:34:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n120
I too sold something, a motorcycle, on the net about a month ago. When I
started receiving the spam it was addressed to me so I was surprised to find
out others got the spam also.
GM
- -----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@mail.execpc.com>
To: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 8:02 PM
Subject: Oops, sorry about "advertising"
>Sorry guys -
>
>I thought that one had been directed just to me, because I did, in fact,
>have an ad on a web site recently. (It worked, too. Sold my car via the
>net to a guy who lives here in town.)
>
>Apparently, though, you were all lucky enough to receive it. - Pat
>
>Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
>(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "E. Billeci" <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Oops:What model Tannoy is this? (picture)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:05:48 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n312
Oh yeah! the picture:
http://www.teleport.com/~tube/tannoy.jpg
(I knew I was forgetting something)
=========================================================================
From: David Bardes <David_Bardes@zd.com>
Subject: OPA2604 vs LM6712
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:12:21 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
Or is it Josh vs Thorsten? When I do my CD Player mods, I will give both of
these a try and see if I can hear a difference. Thorsten seems to be in
the accuracy camp and Josh is in the "euphonic" camp - both valid
approaches! A full report will follow.
Gentlemen, start your Op Amps!!
David
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Op amp of the week.
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:45:58 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n186
Hmmm, too quiet around here.
What we need is some controversy.
After a day spent tweaking a Fisher FM90X and Scott 335 multiplex decoder,
a Scott LT-110 (yeah, it's still for sale, works fine), a Fisher FM-200B
and a Kenwood L-07T, I am chagrined to say the sandy Kenwood really does
sound better than any of those tube tuners. By the way, my idea of a Fisher
90X and a Scott 335 being a dream combo was way off. The 90 is rather thin
and the Scott is real tubby. Sort of a Laurel and Hardy sound.
Put some supah fast rectifryers in place of the bridge in the Kenwood for
the first tweak. Hell, it's hard to tell if it made much difference what
with the noisy reception we get around here. But I figure I should make the
best of it. Looks really intimidating under the hood, but aligning the
thing was a cake walk. It was like most old tuners, everything was off just
a frog's hair, but when it all lined up in this baby, whoa! Very sensitive,
very nice pattern on the scope when tuning (the L07T has a horiz and vert
out to scope on the back - I use a nice old Tek 608 XY display to tune it).
Anybody ever had one of these with a hum problem? Mine makes a bit of hum
all the time, mono or stereo. Doesn't really sound like filter caps, but it
may be, stays constant even when the output pot is adjusted.
Anyway, my main question is - what's everybody's favorite flavor of op amp
this week, to replace the 4558 at the output of the L07T and a couple of
other spots?
Was looking at the OPA2134. Any good?
While we're at it, anybody got a suggested replacement for a 4136 (besides
a TL075) that doesn't require making an adapter board?
Getting ready to fix my old Burwen TNE....
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: Hugh Dean <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Op amp of the week.
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:04:24 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n186
Hi Doc, you wrote:
> Was looking at the OPA2134. Any good?
Yes, a good opamp. But I believe a better one is the OP275.
> While we're at it, anybody got a suggested replacement for a 4136 (besides
> a TL075) that doesn't require making an adapter board?
Sorry, can't advise here.
Cheers,
Hugh R. Dean
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Op amp of the week.
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:47:55 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n187
Thanks, everyone, for your help.
Struck out in the Digi-Key catalog looking for the OP275. Am I on the wrong
page ( yeah, I know, the answer is usually a resounding Yes), or do I need
another source?
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: el34@juno.com
Subject: Re: Op amp of the week.
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:36:52 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n187
On Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:04:24 +1100 Hugh Dean <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
writes:
>Hi Doc, you wrote:
>
>> Was looking at the OPA2134. Any good?
>
>Yes, a good opamp. But I believe a better one is the OP275.
The OP275 gets my vote as well. I used them to replace the output amps in
my CD player. The 2134 is my second choice. The '275 has better low level
detail, and the sound is more tube like, or at least not as "op-amp"
sounding.
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