Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 1
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From: Rick Francis <rfranci@uoft03.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: T-275 Japanese/Olson OPT, "extremely handsome," seeks mate
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 23:20:55 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n103
Old-timer passed a NIB OPT to me:
"Ultra Hi-Fi Output Transformer"
15 watts
Primary options include 16K, 10K, 8K, 5K
It came with a piece of paper with a cutaway view of the tranny, winding
diagram, and a freq. response graph, and these curious words:
"The outward appearance is extremely handsome"
Indeed it is a handsome devil, in a black plastic case ("unique plastic
caces [sic] with a special internal construction... while the shielding
characteristcs are in no way inferior than those of iron cases.") It
claims that "the windings consist of balanced sectional windings." Anyone
know anything about this? Mikey? And by some weird fluke of the universe,
does anyone know where I'd find a mate?
Rick Francis, rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: T-275 Japanese/Olson OPT, "extremely handsome," seeks mate
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 10:19:44 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n103
In a message dated 97-11-09 01:32:21 EST, Dr. Francis wrote:
<<
>Old-timer passed a NIB OPT to me:
>"Ultra Hi-Fi Output Transformer"
>15 watts
>Primary options include 16K, 10K, 8K, 5K
Don't want to go down the path of "universals" again...but...your find seems
like it could be kind of neat....
>It came with a piece of paper with a cutaway view of the tranny, winding
>diagram, and a freq. response graph, and these curious words:
>"The outward appearance is extremely handsome"
No lack of modesty, heh? just kidding. The cutaway view and winding diagram
sound kind of neat as well. If it would photocopy well I would love to see
it....
>Indeed it is a handsome devil, in a black plastic case ("unique plastic
>caces [sic] with a special internal construction... while the shielding
>characteristcs are in no way inferior than those of iron cases.")
They may be wrapping the coil inside the case with steel or even mu-metal to
obtain the degree of shielding that they designed for. I have thought also
of getting plasitc cups for the really tiny tranneys....say a small input
trans....and wrapping it with mu metal for the desired amount of
shielding....
> claims that "the windings consist of balanced sectional windings." Anyone
>know anything about this? Mikey?
The "balanced sectional windings"....break it down into it's constituent
claims.
"Balanced".....there are two *easy* (easy being a relative term) forms of
balance....sometimes when a company says that they have balanced windings
what they mean is that the "push and pull" halves of the primary have the
same DCR's...but this doesn't necessarily mean that they have an equally
symmetrical winding from an AC point of view....
"sectional" simply means that the coil is interleaved....every single audio
OT that I have seen blueprints for had a least some degree of
sectionalizing....the mixing of primary and secondary windings.....
if you could send me a clean photocopy I would enjoy checking it out...
>And by some weird fluke of the universe, does anyone know where I'd find a
mate?
Yeah...right...have dozens in my basement....right next to the stash of 555
drivers that I've been hoarding which is right next to the 55 gal drum filled
with 196P spragues which is alongside the hermetically sealed master carton
of WE 212's that I've been saving....which is all contained within my
fluke....
cheers,
Mike
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From: Michel Paquette <paqm01@GEL.USherb.CA>
Subject: Re: T-275 Japanese/Olson OPT, "extremely handsome," seeks mate
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 23:14:26 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n103
Hello Rick,
I also have one of these but I'm not certain it's exactly the same thing
(sounds about right though...). Actually, it's at my parents place. I
can check it out but only in a few weeks.
Michel
>Old-timer passed a NIB OPT to me:
>
>"Ultra Hi-Fi Output Transformer"
>15 watts
>Primary options include 16K, 10K, 8K, 5K
>
>It came with a piece of paper with a cutaway view of the tranny, winding
>diagram, and a freq. response graph, and these curious words:
>
>"The outward appearance is extremely handsome"
>
>Indeed it is a handsome devil, in a black plastic case ("unique plastic
>caces [sic] with a special internal construction... while the shielding
>characteristcs are in no way inferior than those of iron cases.") It
>claims that "the windings consist of balanced sectional windings." Anyone
>know anything about this? Mikey? And by some weird fluke of the universe,
>does anyone know where I'd find a mate?
>
>Rick Francis, rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu
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From: Clyde Prestowitz <cvp3@usa.net>
Subject: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:05:58 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n314
Hi Joes,
A quick intro... I am a recent SP subscriber, tube newbie, and joenet
lurker who is trying to learn and soak up as much info as possible. As
part of this journey, I also try to meet and talk to people when I can.
Marks interesting post on HiFi98 caught my eye because...
Mark Long2 wrote:
> The Millennium Amp from TacT audio (http://www.tactaudio.com) sounded
> astonishing on a pair of Dali speakers.....
Yesterday I spent about an hour talking to a guy named Ric Shultz who
runs Electronic Visionary Systems (he is a bigtime tweak who sells a
pair of passive stepped attenuators that used to be rate "Class A" by
Stereophile), and he was just ranting and raving about these digital
amps. He claims that this is the downfall for analog. He claims
24bit/96k CD/DVD players matched with these digital amps absolutely
CRUSHES everything else out there. He says once the recording industry
starts putting out high quality 24bit/96k recordings, there will be no
looking back at analog. He said that Sony is looking into leasing this
technology from Tact and believes that in 3 years, joe-blow consumer can
walk into Circuit City, buy a multi-channel Sony tact digital receiver
and a 24bit/96k CD/DVD player, and have a system that will be
unbelievable. He claims tubes and analog are DEAD. He also claims the
Krells and Mark Levinsons will become boat anchors also (but we already
knew that right?)
Do you guys see any truth to his claims? Anyone have any other insight
to these digital amps? Like I said, I am kind of new to a lot of this
high-end stuff but he seemed pretty convinced.
On a side note, in the next couple of weeks or so, Ric said he'd let me
audition a Pioneer 24bit/96k CD/DVD machine that is making mods and will
be selling w/mods for under $1000. Again, he claims this setup to be a
giant killer. If people are intersted, I can post my impressions later
on...
Regards,
Clyde
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From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:29:39 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n314
Well... i haven't heard a digital amp, but i don't believe they're going
to devastate the rest of the industry. Not due to any shortcoming in the
digital amps, mind you (they may be wonderful), but due to everything
ELSE.
First, they do nothing about the Speaker Problem. Speakers are probably
the weakest link in the chain. There are a plethora of technologies out
there, all solving some problems while aggravating others. A $500 Sony
home theatre is still gonna be stuck with crap speakers, great amp or not,
and it will still suck. As experienced Joenetters will tell you, the amp
isn't the magic - the amp/speaker combination is. Small (SE/0NFB) tube
amps, among other things, allow us to use high-resolution efficient
speakers like Lowthers and Altecs, which again benefits some things by
sacrificing others.
Second, 24bit/96khz recordings aren't going to replace CDs anytime soon.
There are *millions* of CD players, and people aren't going to replace
them, especially on low-resolution systems what won't show a difference
with DVD anyway. CD will remain the standard. And what of all my old
recordings that weren't recorded at the higher resolution? Or my vinyl,
which was never released on CD at all? Serious music collectors will
continue to have older technology recordings.
Finally, there is a HELL of a lot more to the picture than accuracy and
efficiency. The *musicality* of a hi-fi system can't be measured in
power, distortion, or bandwidth. Maybe digital amps will be highly
musical, i don't know. But maybe they'll suffer from the same flaws as
Krell and other big solid-state amps... plenty of detail and accuracy, but
no *music*. Until they're musical, i'll stick to my triodes.
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
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From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:10:53 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n314
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:29:39 -0500 (CDT), Dave Stagner
<dstagner@icarus.net> wrote:
>Maybe digital amps will be highly
>musical, i don't know. But maybe they'll suffer from the same flaws as
>Krell and other big solid-state amps... plenty of detail and accuracy, but
>no *music*.
I don't buy into this argument. The reason why us triode-philes don't
like Krells and other big solid-state amps isn't because they're "too
accurate," but because we're bothered by their inaccuracies. I still
believe that a truly accurate amp would be inherenty musical. If it's
amusical, it ain't accurate.
I like to think that there's more to the triode wing of this hobby
than the pursuit of pleasing distortions. That seems so insecure and
defeatist to me. (However, when faced with the choice between
pleasant distortions and unpleasant ones, I'll go with the pleasant
ones every time....) No, I prefer taking the moral high ground stance
that we're onto a path toward greater linearity through triodes.
If there's another path to accuracy that doesn't involve triodes, but
doesn't introduce a new set of solid-state or digital nasties, then
I'm all for it. As for these new digital amps, I'll remain skeptical
until I hear one.
- --dnb
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From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:55:08 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n315
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, David Barnett wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:29:39 -0500 (CDT), Dave Stagner
> <dstagner@icarus.net> wrote:
>
> >Maybe digital amps will be highly
> >musical, i don't know. But maybe they'll suffer from the same flaws as
> >Krell and other big solid-state amps... plenty of detail and accuracy, but
> >no *music*.
>
> I don't buy into this argument. The reason why us triode-philes don't
> like Krells and other big solid-state amps isn't because they're "too
> accurate," but because we're bothered by their inaccuracies. I still
> believe that a truly accurate amp would be inherenty musical. If it's
> amusical, it ain't accurate.
My bad... i think i mean something different by "accuracy" than "lack of
artifacts".
> I like to think that there's more to the triode wing of this hobby
> than the pursuit of pleasing distortions. That seems so insecure and
> defeatist to me. (However, when faced with the choice between
> pleasant distortions and unpleasant ones, I'll go with the pleasant
> ones every time....) No, I prefer taking the moral high ground stance
> that we're onto a path toward greater linearity through triodes.
Oh heavens no! I don't believe this has anything to do with "distortion",
in the usual electric-measurement sense. For one thing, the distortion
involved in most speakers far outweighs any amp distortion. But for
another, there are things we hear which don't show up on existing
measuring tools. When we were listening to Hopper's amp last week, power
output was in the tens of milliwatts, and his amp bench-measures very
well. Harmonic distortion would not be audible. But we could clearly hear
a difference when switching from AVVT to WE 300B tubes. Neither was
"distorted", but one was definitely more musical than the other.
We all know the ignorant mainstream has bashed tube "distortion" for
years, but i'm not sure we should turn around and say it's actually solid
state that is distorted. The amazing differences in coloration that are
clearly audible in even the best tube equipment suggest to me, along with
my belief that triode distortion is low, that non-distortion factors
govern what we hear. I don't know what those factors are, and i can't
suggest a measurement. But i'm not going to say that a Krell amp is
distorted just because it sounds sterile, any more than i'll say a 300B
amp is distorted just because it sounds warm.
> If there's another path to accuracy that doesn't involve triodes, but
> doesn't introduce a new set of solid-state or digital nasties, then
> I'm all for it. As for these new digital amps, I'll remain skeptical
> until I hear one.
Now THAT i agree with!
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
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From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n315
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Dave Stagner wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, David Barnett wrote:
> > I don't buy into this argument. The reason why us triode-philes don't
> > like Krells and other big solid-state amps isn't because they're "too
> > accurate," but because we're bothered by their inaccuracies. I still
> > believe that a truly accurate amp would be inherenty musical. If it's
> > amusical, it ain't accurate.
>
> My bad... i think i mean something different by "accuracy" than "lack of
> artifacts".
We've been around this issue a number of times. My
position, fwiw, is that there is no downside to accuracy.
Accuracy and musicality are synonymous. A perfectly accurate
reproduction has to be musically faithful. The problem is
the misuse of the term to describe imperfect performance of
a particular type in which certain parameters/details are
emphasized or expressed out of proportion.
> > If there's another path to accuracy that doesn't involve triodes, but
> > doesn't introduce a new set of solid-state or digital nasties, then
> > I'm all for it. As for these new digital amps, I'll remain skeptical
> > until I hear one.
>
> Now THAT i agree with!
Same here except I've heard it. Judgement, however, was
not possible in that context. OTOH, it isn't so much the
source of the nasties as their elimination that counts.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:45:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n315
Clyde Prestowitz wrote:
> Hi Joes,
> Anyone have any other insight
> to these digital amps? Like I said, I am kind of new to a lot of this
> high-end stuff but he seemed pretty convinced.
>
With great reluctance, I'd like to add a few personal observations regarding
"digital" amps, which ain't digital, no matter what the brochure says. Call
them Class-D, call them switchers/switching, they all end in a half- or
full-wave bridge of MOSFET's or other power device run in a switching mode.
And please take my comments with the appropriate grains of salt: My company
designs custom Class-D amplifiers for OEM's, so I am open to accusations of
bias.
I firmly believe that Class-D amps have the potential to make a mark on the
audio industry. If I didn't, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. It's "cool"
technology. Think about a 50W amp the size of a credit card, a 200W amp
that's about 50% bigger, or a 2000W beast that's about 5x7". Compare their
90%+ (yes!) efficiency with the typical 40% of a Class-AB and you're talking
far better power utilization for a given power supply transformer. Sound
quality? Who cares! The average consumer blindly follows the latest trend,
the latest Stereophile Class-A recommendation, the advice of the Biff at the
local stereo shop, their cousin Dave, etc. However, like one of my customers
says, "It can't suck!"
And they don't. I have never heard the TacT or the Spectron, but I know
people who have, and have heard our amps, too. There does appear to be a
sort of family resemblance. Primarily, the low-level resolution, to my ears
with one of my amps, is excellent, on a par with any tube amp I've ever
listened to. Musicality? I've never been in the least tempted to pull the
plug or run screaming from the room. There's no sense of artificial
brightness, just a nice balance and a rich sound. Large signal performance?
No worse than any bigass transistor amp I've heard, and therein lies the
rub.
All that tweaky power supply stuff is there, the upper midrange glare, the
treble grain, but you can get rid of it for a price. Did anybody notice that
the TacT is, what, $9000? And it'll be available when? End of this year?
Work in progress, guys and gals (if Joe hasn't scared you all away). Oh,
yes, this is gonna take over the world.
Will Class-D/Digital/whatever cause the value of your NOS 300B's to plummet?
Not a chance. The people who promote the latest and greatest thingie the
loudest have a financial stake in their grandiose pronouncements. Caveat
emptor.
I'll still take a 2A3 any day!
JL
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:42:53 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n315
At 14:55 18/06/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, David Barnett wrote:
>
>
>> If there's another path to accuracy that doesn't involve triodes, but
>> doesn't introduce a new set of solid-state or digital nasties, then
>> I'm all for it. As for these new digital amps, I'll remain skeptical
>> until I hear one.
>
>Now THAT i agree with!
>
I think you are right. Don't jump on a bandwagon before you have been
convinced yourself.
I don't normally gush over amps too much. While I have heard differences
between cables these were often not of an importance that I felt justified
many hundreds or thousands of $.
I'm a bit at loss as how to describe the TacT, but it was an almost
instantaneous realisation that something here was so right.
So what can I say. Try to get an opportunity to hear them. I will.
Greetings
Robert
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From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:52:34 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n316
>He claims tubes and analog are DEAD. He also claims the
>Krells and Mark Levinsons will become boat anchors also (but we already
>knew that right?)
I'll believe when I see it (or hear it rather). I got the full-on royal
build-up when the first CD's arrived in 1979. (Anyone who thinks Win95 was
over-hyped should have seen the months-long hype-fest for the rollout of
CD's, or "Perfect Sound Forever" as Len Feldman so memorably dubbed it.)
Of the two audiophiles I knew who were most excited about the approaching
digital age, one played in the symphony orchestra, and the other one was
chief designer at the hi-fi company I worked for. These guys were smart,
had good taste in music, and had a seriously good hi-fi, so I took what
they said at face value. Plus I was an AES member back then, and I read all
of the assorted AES papers on the subject, so I was expecting good things
... mike-feed quality and all that.
So I went over to their place, which featured an ultra-revealing all-TAD
horn system, the Mk I Sony CDP-101, and a small collection of DGG classical
CD's. When they turned it on it was the shrillest, foulest sound I'd heard
in 20 years, but these yo-yo's are grinning from ear to ear saying "isn't
it so CLEAN!" That was when I got my first lesson in how people who
nominally have good taste can have *really* different sonic takes on hi-fi.
They thought it was just great, I decided to postpone my first CD player
for many years until the damn thing was perfected, or at least
half-listenable. Here we are nearly 20 years later and it's almost caught
up with the phonograph I had in 1979 (Thorens TD160/Mission 774/Supex
SD900E). Now that's what I call progress!
Back in 1992, I predicted in Positive Feedback magazine that the
Sony/Philips consortium were going to come up with something new and
completely incompatible once the original patents on 44.1/16 digital ran
out, and looks like DSD fits the bill perfectly. Good for them.
A prediction for the Joelist: Sony, Philips, Intel, and Microsoft will
merge in 2012. Every time you turn on your lovely new Circuit City
all-digital receiver, you'll be thrilled and delighted to hear the
"dink-dink-da-dink" signature tune of Intel coming from five speakers, in
flawless all-digital fidelity. Oh boy, I can hardly wait to throw out my
CD's and buy a whole new record collection all over again.
Lynn T. Olson
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
=========================================================================
From: SSell71096@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:30:06 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n316
hey jl,
>And please take my comments with the appropriate grains of salt: My company
designs custom Class-D amplifiers for OEM's, so I am open to accusations of
bias.<
(pun intended?)
What company would this be?
BTW, TaCT claims that there device isn't technically an amp since it isn't
actually swinging voltage, but just tapping into a portion of the 58V that are
always there (hope I got that right -gotta try and dig up there literature and
see if it's mentioned there.) The device does seem promising and at about
$10k, while not cheap, would replace a DAC, preamp, amp, pwr cords, and
interconnects, which many audiophiles end up spending more than this on those
pieces anyway.
best,
dave
best,
dave
=========================================================================
From: SSell71096@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:44:40 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n316
>Back in 1992, I predicted in Positive Feedback magazine that the Sony/Philips
consortium were going to come up with something new and completely
incompatible once the original patents on 44.1/16 digital ran out, and looks
like DSD fits the bill perfectly. Good for them.
<snip>
Oh boy, I can hardly wait to throw out my
CD's and buy a whole new record collection all over again. <
Actually one of the things that's interesting about Sony's new format is that
it's both fwd and bkwd compatible, having both red book 16/44 cd info as well
as new greater info std on it. So you can play a new disc in your old machine,
or in a new machine for "improved" sound, and the new machine will play your
old cd collection. And Tower records only has to stock one disc, making this
format more likely to succeed in the real world marketplace. After all, we
don't constitute squat in the marketplace, hence they don't really care about
us.
- -dave
=========================================================================
From: SSell71096@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:18:34 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n316
hey John,
>LGT Technologies.<
I haven't heard of them. Should I be familiar with their products?
The other cool aspect of the Tact, that I neglected to mention, is that they
also offer a digital room correction device ala SigTech, but supposedly
improved, for about $8k. They are planning to offer it as a board for the
"DAC/amp" for about $1-2k, I think. Also they will be offering an A/D board
for approx. $1k that they (of course) claim will not compromise your analog
inputs, so phono, tape, tuner etc. can all go in to one box - very neat!
Again, this whole thing ain't cheap but it's certainly an interesting and
promising product with the potential to greatly simplify a system. Now when
are they gonna make kits for the DIY crowd? :-)
- -dave
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:29:36 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n316
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 SSell71096@aol.com wrote:
> Actually one of the things that's interesting about Sony's new format is that
> it's both fwd and bkwd compatible, having both red book 16/44 cd info as well
> as new greater info std on it. So you can play a new disc in your old machine,
> or in a new machine for "improved" sound, and the new machine will play your
> old cd collection. And Tower records only has to stock one disc, making this
> format more likely to succeed in the real world marketplace. After all, we
> don't constitute squat in the marketplace, hence they don't really care about
> us.
True. However, what is the motivation to issue such discs
when the great unwashed has no motivation to buy new
hardware and discs? Sony/Philips, by encorporating CD
player compatibility, impedes the transition to DVD and
DVD-audio.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:13:38 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n317
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
>
> On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 SSell71096@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Actually one of the things that's interesting about Sony's new format is that
> > it's both fwd and bkwd compatible, having both red book 16/44 cd info as well
> > as new greater info std on it. So you can play a new disc in your old machine,
> > or in a new machine for "improved" sound, and the new machine will play your
> > old cd collection. And Tower records only has to stock one disc, making this
> > format more likely to succeed in the real world marketplace. After all, we
> > don't constitute squat in the marketplace, hence they don't really care about
> > us.
>
> True. However, what is the motivation to issue such discs
> when the great unwashed has no motivation to buy new
> hardware and discs? Sony/Philips, by encorporating CD
> player compatibility, impedes the transition to DVD and
> DVD-audio.
The motivation is the 5 cents per disc sold that Sony/Phillips gets for
each CD sold. With DSD disks, Sony/Phillips still makes money, with
DVD/DVD audio, sony/phillips don't get squat... Also, there's the
bragging rights if they can shut Toshiba et. al. out of the 'better than
CD' audio market. Also, the DSD data format can be used for audio on
DVDs (although not readable in standard CD players) which would probably
also put money in Sony/Phillips pockets.
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com --
http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:33:55 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n317
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Roscoe Primrose wrote:
> The motivation is the 5 cents per disc sold that Sony/Phillips gets for
> each CD sold. With DSD disks, Sony/Phillips still makes money, with
> DVD/DVD audio, sony/phillips don't get squat...
Not true. They get a bit less.
> Also, there's the
> bragging rights if they can shut Toshiba et. al. out of the 'better than
> CD' audio market.
I buy that one.
> Also, the DSD data format can be used for audio on
> DVDs (although not readable in standard CD players) which would probably
> also put money in Sony/Phillips pockets.
Don't hold your breath on this one.
Kal
k
=========================================================================
From: WBamb83392@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tact Digital Amps (was HiFi98...)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 01:00:54 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n317
In a message dated 98-06-18 13:17:32 EDT, cvp3@usa.net writes:
> Yesterday I spent about an hour talking to a guy named Ric Shultz who
> runs Electronic Visionary Systems (he is a bigtime tweak who sells a
> pair of passive stepped attenuators that used to be rate "Class A" by
> Stereophile), and he was just ranting and raving about these digital
> amps. He claims that this is the downfall for analog. He claims
> 24bit/96k CD/DVD players matched with these digital amps absolutely
> CRUSHES everything else out there.
> Do you guys see any truth to his claims? Anyone have any other insight
> to these digital amps? Like I said, I am kind of new to a lot of this
> high-end stuff but he seemed pretty convinced.
>
He's right. This full digital amp is astounding. It's certainly not going
to kill analog and tubes, but it will kill the big A and A/B solid state amps,
the DAC, the preamp, the cables, and the profit of the high-end audio industry
in general.
Is it possible to make a 382kHz PWM tube amp? Can tubes switch in 10
nanoseconds? Could a transformer be used for the 60kHz highpass output
filter? It would be sacrilege, but it would at least be really cool. After I
build the stereo victrola, I'll start looking into PWM tube amps :-).
- -Eric Bamberg
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: TAD 2001
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:02:59 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n200
According to the TAD website, the TAD 2001 has a range of 500 to
22Khz.
See http://www.tad-pioneer.com
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: TAD 2001
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:31:24 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n200
At 00:02 24/02/1998 -0800, Ken Dangerfield wrote:
>According to the TAD website, the TAD 2001 has a range of 500 to
>22Khz.
I have to add that the main impedance peak of the TD2001 spread up to 700Hz.
Sound is better with a crossover cutoff above 700Hz, specially with passive
crossover.
My own opinion is that the TD2001 is best above 800Hz.
When using it at frequencies lower than 500Hz, the power limit falls
rapidly. Better to purchase several replacement diaphragms.
Many people here in France use the TD2001 from 200Hz to 1000Hz with the
Sato's horn (a WE15A type horn). To do this you have to enlarge the rear
cavity, to damp it and I heard also of a membrane treatment, probably to
lower the impedance peak frequency.
Rich people should look toward Onken or Goto low-mid compression drivers,
that's the definitive solution...
Best regards
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris
=========================================================================
From: "P.A. & M. Almeflo" <sd@ljusdal.se>
Subject: RE: TAD 2001
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:15:58 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n200
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris wrote:
> Many people here in France use the TD2001 from 200Hz to 1000Hz with the
> Sato's horn (a WE15A type horn). To do this you have to enlarge the rear
> cavity, to damp it and I heard also of a membrane treatment, probably to
> lower the impedance peak frequency.
I read on one site (don't seem to be able to find it anymore) that the
beryllium membrane may be a hazard to your health if it break into
splinters and you get a piece in your body.
How serious is this threat?
Best regards,
Per Arne
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: RE: TAD 2001
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:27:19 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n200
At 17:15 25/02/1998 +0100, Per Arne wrote:
>I read on one site (don't seem to be able to find it anymore) that the
>beryllium membrane may be a hazard to your health if it break into
>splinters and you get a piece in your body.
>How serious is this threat?
Beryllium is toxic, mainly its oxides and its salts.
Beryllium is also contained, while at low content, in a lot of special
steels and in such alloys it seems that its toxicity is negligeible.
For what I know clean beryllium (metallic) sheets are not toxic but
beryllium (metallic) powder is toxic.
Beryllium sheets are used as windows for generator and detectors using X
Rays or other short wavelength electromagnetic waves.
In my laboratory I have Xray tubes and detectors using beryllium windows.
The recommendation for people having to handle such devices is to wear
gloves (but no mask needed here) because beryllium from the oxide layer can
come through your skin to your blood.
About the beryllium diaphragm of the TAD I'll more worried about the
extremely cutting thin fragments it give when breaking than their toxicity.
May be you don't know but aluminum is highly toxic too...and I don't speak
about the arsenic and the lead present in welding alloys...
Best regards.
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Re: TAD 2001
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 10:56:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n200
>According to the TAD website, the TAD 2001 has a range of 500 to
>22Khz.
Ken,
More like 500-15Khz and in a good horn. I would plan on using it between
800 and 15K, not any lower as it tends to distort. I like the driver
pretty much though a litte pricey.
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: RE: TAD 2001
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:44:55 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n201
>I read on one site (don't seem to be able to find it anymore) that the
>beryllium membrane may be a hazard to your health if it break into
>splinters and you get a piece in your body.
>How serious is this threat?
Jeepers, just turn the volume down, for god's sake. ;-) - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: TAD 2001
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:54:53 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n201
Le Cleac'h J.-M. wrote:toxicity.
-snip-
> May be you don't know but aluminum is highly toxic too...and I don't speak
> about the arsenic and the lead present in welding alloys...
-snip-
> Best regards.
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
I've heard that before...So do we only cook in cured cast iron pots?
What about the coated no-stick stuff? What's in the coating?
Regards,
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: "Bill Gaw" <whg@tiac.net>
Subject: TAD 2001 membrane
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:03:12 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n477
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Blew out one of my TAD 2001 drivers this weekend ( don't ask. Did =
something stupid.). Anybody have a replacement or know where I can get =
one, and the price. Thanks. Bill Gaw
- ------=_NextPart_000_0671_01BE0648.007F3060
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Blew out one of my TAD 2001 drivers =
this weekend=20
( don't ask. Did something stupid.). Anybody have a replacement or know =
where I=20
can get one, and the price. Thanks. Bill Gaw</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0671_01BE0648.007F3060--
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: TAD 2001 membrane
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 14:04:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n477
> Bill Gaw wrote:
>
> Blew out one of my TAD 2001 drivers this weekend ( don't ask. Did
> something stupid.). Anybody have a replacement or know where I can get
> one, and the price. Thanks. Bill Gaw
I don't know where you can get one, but berrylium is highly toxic and
very brittle, so be very carefull not to get a piece in you when you do
change it...
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: "william gaw." <whg@tiac.net>
Subject: TAD 2002 drivers
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:54:26 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n245
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Am thinking of trying the TAD 2002 drivers on my Edgar round horns in =
place of the 2001's. Has anybody used these yet, and does anybody kbow =
where I could get these for less than the list price that Pioneer is =
charging($880 each). Bill Gaw
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<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Am thinking of trying the TAD 2002 =
drivers on my=20
Edgar round horns in place of the 2001's. Has anybody used these yet, =
and does=20
anybody kbow where I could get these for less than the list price that =
Pioneer=20
is charging($880 each). Bill Gaw</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0560_01BD6070.7004AC40--
=========================================================================
From: Bodo Kalthoff <bodo@uni-paderborn.de>
Subject: TAD 4003
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 14:15:30 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n017
Hello all,
a friend of mine is desperately looking for people who have listened to
the new TAD 4003 horn driver. How does this driver compare to the TAD
4001, 4002 or 2001? What kind of horns, amplifiers,equalizers, active or
passive crossover were used with the TAD 4003?
Best regards,
Bodo
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: TAD
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:01:06 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n243
Hey Joes,
For the entertainment of those into horns:- take a look at the TAD site:
www.tad-pioneer.com
under loudspeaker systems -- 2401
Really Gorgeous 2 way studio monitors. I cannot image the price they ask
for these beasties!
I also checked around on a couple of famous rock recording studio sites,
and they really seem to favor similar TAD horn systems.
- -- Interesting when you consider these very rich and image conscious
studios could go for anything they like that they go for horns.
Maybe this because they play loud to just tickle the ears of deaf
engineers!
Best
Mark
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Taddeo Digital Antidote anyone?
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:44:22 PDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n352
Hi folks,
I found this little piece quite interesting:
http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5436882
This seems to detail the Design of the fabled Taddeo Digital
Antidote....
While I can't fail to notice that a few bit's and pieces are missing in
the active variant, I'm no fan of Op-Amp City anyway.....
The Passive LC Variant looks more interesting....
Does anyone of you actually use (or has used/tested/reviewed) the
Digital Antidote?
Is it worthwhile as a concept to play with or should I better continue
messing about with DIY Shunt-Mains-Filters and Power-Kords to improve
the Digital Replay?
Kind regards Thorsten.
======================================
e-mail:
Thorsten@tnt-audio.com
Visit TNT-Audio on the Web - the only advertising
free audio web-zine.
http://www.tnt-audio.com
======================================
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: TAD drivers
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:49:08 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n175
You can find the suggested retail list prices for TAD at the
following site, which may give you a means to guage asking prices for
used:
http://www.tad-pioneer.com
Good luck and regards,
Ken Dangerfield
> > >-What would be a fair price to pay?
> I believe a fair price is $400-$500 each if they are in excellent condition. A
> guy on the net has some advertised for $600 ea.
>
> Kurt
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Jeroen Euwe <EUWE@let-trans.let.ruu.nl>
Subject: TAD drivers
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:56:27 GMT+0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n175
Hello all,
This afternoon I found out that I might be able to get a second-hand
set of TAD 4001.
Before I get in touch there are however a few things I'm trying to
find out, like:
- -What would be a fair price to pay?
- -In a two-way speaker system like the Blue Thunder or a Onken bass
cabinet with multicell horn, what driver would be best: the TAD 2001
or the 4001?
- - Are the 4001 really a lot better than the Altec 288-16K?
TIA,
Jeroen
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: TAD drivers
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:31:36 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n175
At 15:56 29/01/1998 GMT+0100, you wrote:
>-What would be a fair price to pay?
Don't know for that, prices are never fair here in France... :=(
>-In a two-way speaker system like the Blue Thunder or a Onken bass
>cabinet with multicell horn, what driver would be best: the TAD 2001
>or the 4001?
IMHO,there is the same amount of qualities in both the 4001 and the 2001,
but William Walther told me the 4001 was inferior to the 2001 because it
used a resin phase plug. I didn't verify that info...
I have TEF measurements for the 2 and both measure excellent.
IMHO the main difference should be in the horns they used. Horn for 2"
drivers seems more difficult to build and most of them are inferior to horns
for 1".
>- Are the 4001 really a lot better than the Altec 288-16K?
Yes!
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h
proud owner of a pair of TD2001...
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Gabitzsch <gabitzkw@webwide.net>
Subject: Re: TAD drivers
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:38:16 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n175
Le Cleac'h J.-M. wrote:
> At 15:56 29/01/1998 GMT+0100, you wrote:
>
> >-What would be a fair price to pay?
>
> Don't know for that, prices are never fair here in France... :=(
>
I believe a fair price is $400-$500 each if they are in excellent condition. A
guy on the net has some advertised for $600 ea.
Kurt
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: TAD TD2110
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 20:43:43 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n348
Hi,
Could someone please advise me of the market value of a one-only NIB TAD
TD 2001 driver. My nephew came up with one and is interested in selling
or trading it, but is not sure of its market vakue. He is interested in
JBL PA speakers and 2 inch horns and drivers. Thanks.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: "Bill Gaw" <whg@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: TAD TD2110
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:12:42 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n348
The last used unit I bought cost $250
- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel J. Marshall <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
To: Sound Practices <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Saturday, July 18, 1998 1:25 AM
Subject: TAD TD2110
>Hi,
>
>Could someone please advise me of the market value of a one-only NIB TAD
>TD 2001 driver. My nephew came up with one and is interested in selling
>or trading it, but is not sure of its market vakue. He is interested in
>JBL PA speakers and 2 inch horns and drivers. Thanks.
>
>Dan Marshall
>
=========================================================================
From: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
Subject: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:10:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n566
Well I can see that I've certainly stirred up a rat's nest here. My original comment about smoking
butts was meant to be illustrative of a vestage from my youth--namely, that I am immortal and will l
ive forever. There's something to be said for not cowering in the face of death. Call it stupid, b
rave, immature, unwise, ignorant, sheltered, whatever, the point remains that if one were to constan
tly be on guard for anything hazardous, one would be a trembling mess stuck in the bedroom, covers d
rawn over the head, afraid to move.
I don't know how much it matters, but I'm 24 years old. I've done my share of getting around, and l
iving through experience, just as my father did before me, and his father did before him. Like anyo
ne else on this list, I too have had my close encounters with high voltage--in my case it was one of
my first times, building an amp from scratch, and figuring that an amp left cold and unplugged for
a night would be safe to thrust one's hands into. Of course, there were no bleeders, and there was
about 400V still on the caps. I don't remember touching anything, but I do rememeber sitting up ver
y quickly off of my stool, air rushing out of my lungs, hearing someone else yell (it was actually m
e) and ending up about 3 feet back from where I started. I didn't go back into the room for a few d
ays after that, but I _did_ eventuallly get back on that horse.
I intended in no way manner or form to glamourize smoking. What I intended to illustrate was the pa
rticularly American characteristic of being completely concerned with HEALTH. Indeed, it would be s
tupid to suggest that health plays no role in the pursuit of happiness, but look around you... look
at all the people who are depressed because they can't control their "unhealthy" urges. Look at oth
er countries, especially in Europe, who really think we Americans are puritanical zealots who miss t
he point. The point isn't to live the longest, it's to have the biggest smile while living!!! Thos
e silly Italians, who consume wine and fat and grease and have sex all the time--boy, they sure don'
t know what they're DOING TO THEMSELVES, now, do they?
In Rhode Island, we are the only state in America that does not require a helmet to be worn by the d
river of a motorcycle. We have never required it, though the state congress has attempted to ammend
the law as it now stands. Every time they attempt, there is a great outcry from both riders and NO
N-riders, and the bill gets shot down. Now, looked at from a purely pragmatic, practical point of v
iew this is lunacy. But when looked at from a wider perspective, I see it as a matter of personal c
hoice. I've owned motorcycles; I don't have one now, but when I did ride them regularly I always wo
re a helmet. Perhaps it was my days spent as a youth racing bicycles and taking my share of falls a
t 25 MPH (never-mind 65 MPH) that made me protect my grape.
But there were a few times I strapped on my Oakleys, hooked the helmet on the back of the seat, and
took a spin around the block. And damn, it felt good. It was a sensation that I would have wanted
to experience, law or no law, good idea or dumb idea. Now, mind you, I've never been into those ric
e-burning crotch rockets--my idea of a bike is a cruiser. And despite what some of you may think, I
am not into taking risks for the sheer thrill of it, or to shake my fist at my own mortality. I do
it because risky behavior is usually rewarded with some pretty intense memories.
I am becoming more and more fed up with my own smoking. I am sure I will be quitting soon. As it s
tands now, I smoke an average of 5 cigarettes a day. Some days (like the day I went skydiving) I sm
oke more--but never more than a pack. Some days, less. I don't smoke in the house. I don't like t
he way it smells. In fact, the only thing I DO like is that wonderful nicotine buzz, but that has b
ecome harder and harder to find nowadays. Such is life.
I certainly didn't want to come and join the Joelist and saturate it with off-topic subjects, but I
felt compelled to defend myself against the "moral majority" who want to point out just how asinine
my behaviors are. Well, shit, ever look at humanity as a whole? If we were all Vulcans things woul
d be a bit different around here. I like loud fucking music... who cares? So did Pete Townshend, a
nd regardless of what he has to say about it now, his experience with the Who would NOT have been th
e same if he had a small 10W combo behind him. Just because you don't agree with it, or it doesn't
make sense to you, doesn't give you firm enough footing to denounce it.
As always, YMMV, JM2C, IMHO, and all that crap.
<center>Ken Gilbert
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Garage/5701
- ------------------------------------------------
Tube Guitar Amplifier Repair/Design Technician
The Guitarist's Choice Inc. http://www.tgcguitar.com
</center>
=========================================================================
From: Mike McCall <shamrock@voyager.viser.net>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:23:42 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
At 09:10 AM 1/11/99 -0500, Ken Gilbert wrote:
>
> Well I can see that I've certainly stirred up a rat's nest here. My original
> comment about smoking butts was meant to be illustrative of a vestage from my
> youth--namely, that I am immortal and will live forever. There's something
> to be said for not cowering in the face of death. Call it stupid, brave,
> immature, unwise, ignorant, sheltered, whatever, the point remains that if
> one were to constantly be on guard for anything hazardous, one would be a
> trembling mess stuck in the bedroom, covers drawn over the head, afraid to
> move.
This issue stirs-up allot of emotions for both smoker and non-smoker alike. The
smoker often feels personally attacked, judged, condemned, and outcast much
like the lepers of old who weren't even allowed into the city. Non-smokers
often have terrible personal tragedies that are their motivation for their well
intentioned venom for smoking. Many "reformed" smokers who were able to stop
are often more judgmental and condemning than those who have never smoked. This
social "war" against smoking is often very personal toward the smoker, and
forces a defensive reaction from many on both sides of the issue.
What seems to be missing for the non-smoker is a real grasp of the addiction.
I've heard that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. If true, then a smokers
knowledge of the dangers has little bearing. It's the addiction that must be
over-come. For those who have never had to deal with a true addiction, it's
hard to understand the difference between an addiction and a habit. Their
perception is that quitting smoking is akin to changing a bad or undesirable
habit. To complicate things for them, many smokers are able to quit with
relative ease because for them it's far more a habit than an addiction. Both
the non-smoker and the reformed smoker become even more convinced that it's
just a habit because of this. Those of us with a true addiction to the nicotine
struggle with the same perceptions. After all, if they can quit why can't I?
Each attempt is more difficult than the last simply because we failed. Repeated
failures causes us to be more cautious about our next attempt. We know what our
addiction is and will do to us, but have so far been unable to over-come it. We
often fear making another attempt and adding another failure to the list.
There's often a real depression that sets in after a failed attempt, causing us
to question every aspect of ourselves in very personal ways. We often have a
real desire to stop smoking, but the battle with the addiction is where we
fail. With each failed attempt to quit, we become more cautious about setting
ourselves up for another failure. The non-smoker's judgmental stance toward us
only makes things worse.
When the non-smoker brings out statistical data relating intelligence or
education to smoking habits, they are in effect stating that we smoke because
we're too stupid to quit. This results in more personal damnation for the
smoker. We're no longer victims of an addiction we haven't been able to
over-come, we're now the social low-life with huge personal character flaws who
are too stupid to either see or care about the freight train coming right for
us. For the non-smoker it's a no-brainer; Get the HELL out of the way you
moron! For them, anyone who continues to smoke given what we now know about it
is a complete idiot worthy of any and all ridicule for our continued smoking.
The truly addicted smoker soon starts believing this about themselves more and
more with each failed attempt at quitting. What started out as a well
intentioned attempt to motivate the smoker into quitting has now become another
point of damnation for them.
Perhaps it's time for a different approach toward the truly addicted smoker.
We've made SO many attempts at quitting and failed, that we find it very
difficult to believe that we CAN over-come our addiction. Encouragement is far
more precious for us than the continual pounding we take. Many of us
desperately want to stop, but so far our addiction has proven to be stronger.
Until you've been here with an addiction this strong, don't tell me what kind
of person I am because I haven't been able to over-come it. That kind of
arrogance and self-righteousness only breeds contempt for those who take that
stance with me. Put your well intentioned energies into finding ways for the
truly addicted to finally over-come our addiction. I wish I knew THE answer to
this situation, but I don't. I'm tired of the damnation received from those
view my addiction as merely a bad habit, or view it as a simple equation to
quit. I am jealous of those who are able to simply put them down and be free
from them. I am not one of those people. I too see the freight train coming and
want desperately to get the hell out of the way. I just haven't been able.
My apologies for the off-topic rant. This is a very personal issue for me for
many reasons. I damn sure don't want to be standing here when the train hits.
However, standing there yelling at me about how stupid I am isn't going to
help. Instead of viewing us as moronic because we don't just move off the
tracks of impending doom, recognize that we're chained to the tracks by our
addiction. Don't tell me I'm stupid because I haven't been able to unlock these
chains and continue to ridicule, judge, and condemn. Rather, find ways to help
me remove the shackles so I can get off the tracks and calm the panic I feel as
the train speeds closer. Consider me a badly wounded comrade who needs your
help to get out of the line of fire. Many of us are more like someone wounded
in battle and unable to take cover on our own. Would you simply tell this
person how stupid they are for not taking cover? Would you motivate them to
take cover by reciting the medical consequences if they don't? They already
know they're in trouble and will surely die if they stay out in the open. This
addiction is often much like that. Ridiculing us is about as productive as
damning a wounded solder. After all, he knows the consequences of staying out
in the open. Any fool would simply will themselves into crawling for cover,
wouldn't they?
Forgive my off-topic, and long winded post on this subject.
Mike McCall
Shamrock Audio
(503) 873-3755
http://www.shamrockaudio.com
shamrock@viser.net
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:17:25
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
A 09:03 PM 1/11/99 +0100, Torbjørn Lien a écrit :
>Since bandwith is vasted allover I guess you don't mind
>me vasting some more,-
>And I'll let it all rest for some days before I check back.
>
>Thomas, vær så snill å fikse serveren/adressen,-mail kommer
>bare i retur...Og så var det disse m å l e n e på kjekke ting
>da...
>
>:)Torbjoern Lien
Traduction, s'il-vous-plait ?
dbk
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:30:44
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
A 07:42 PM 1/11/99 GMT, David Barnett a écrit :
>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:10:26 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
>wrote:
>
>> I like loud fucking music... who cares? So did Pete Townshend, and
regardless of what he has to say about it now, his experience with the Who
would NOT have been the same if he had a small 10W combo behind him.
>
>Pete was playing in arenas and coliseums, are you? He's also deaf now
>and has serious regrets.
>
>--dnb
>
Talkin' 'bout my de- de- de- degeneration ...
dbk
=========================================================================
From: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:07:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
At 07:42 PM 1/11/99 GMT, you wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:10:26 -0500, Ken Gilbert <<ride5000@ride.ri.net>
>wrote:
>
>> I like loud fucking music... who cares? So did Pete Townshend, and regardless of what he has to
say about it now, his experience with the Who would NOT have been the same if he had a small 10W com
bo behind him.
>
>Pete was playing in arenas and coliseums, are you? He's also deaf now
>and has serious regrets.
Dave, not for nothing, but you seem to have a rather large bug up your ass. Pete seems to be very a
ble to carry on a conversation, at least the last time I saw him on Letterman. No shit, he has regr
ets. Do you? I bet we all do. I don't regret his tone or his dedication to his art, which has tou
ched millions and will continue to do so long after we are ALL dead and buried. So enough with your
petty condescension.
Did you ever see that picture of him holding his head in his bloody hands? He didn't regret that wh
en they hurt like a mother the next day? That picture touches me to the core, and for that, his pai
n was not in vain.
You seem to be insinuating that artistic abilities come at no cost to the person who posesses them.
I'm not so sure Van Gogh's paintings would have been as good had he not been trippin' on Absinthe 2
4-7. Sure, he probably wouldn't have gone insane and cut off his ear either, but he also wouldn't h
ave seen such streaks of light in a starry night's sky.
Would Albert Einstein have accomplished as much as he did in his life if he had been more of a "fami
ly man" and spent more time with his wife and kids?
Or perhaps Edison, who suffered from ADD his entire life. Maybe "suffered" isn't really the right w
ord...
Do you think Nirvana would have been as successful in reaching millions had the singer and songwrite
r not been so wracked with despair?
Edgar Allen Poe, who was such a _happy_ man in life it ended up manifesting itself in his cheery wor
ks of prose. Or Sylvia Plath, or Emily Dickinson... the list goes on, and on, and on. You cannot s
eparate the art from the circumstances imposed on the person while creating it.
Try windmilling with a practice amp. Then try it with a few stacks of Hiwatts backing you up.
If you can't perceive the difference then I am truly sorry.
<center>Ken Gilbert
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Garage/5701
- ------------------------------------------------
Tube Guitar Amplifier Repair/Design Technician
The Guitarist's Choice Inc. http://www.tgcguitar.com
</center>
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:42:35 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:10:26 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
wrote:
>In Rhode Island, we are the only state in America that does not require a helmet to be worn by the
driver of a motorcycle.
Not true. CA and AR, and probably some other states as well, also
allow helmetless riding.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:42:36 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:10:26 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
wrote:
> I like loud fucking music... who cares? So did Pete Townshend, and regardless of what he has to s
ay about it now, his experience with the Who would NOT have been the same if he had a small 10W comb
o behind him.
Pete was playing in arenas and coliseums, are you? He's also deaf now
and has serious regrets.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:03:39 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n567
Since bandwith is vasted allover I guess you don't mind
me vasting some more,-
And I'll let it all rest for some days before I check back.
Thomas, vær så snill å fikse serveren/adressen,-mail kommer
bare i retur...Og så var det disse m å l e n e på kjekke ting
da...
:)Torbjoern Lien
- ----------
> From: David Barnett <davidbarnett@aristotle.net>
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
> Date: 11. januar 1999 20:42
>
> On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:10:26 -0500, Ken Gilbert
<ride5000@ride.ri.net>
> wrote:
>
> > I like loud fucking music... who cares? So did Pete Townshend, and
regardless of what he has to say about it now, his experience with the
Who would NOT have been the same if he had a small 10W combo behind
him.
>
> Pete was playing in arenas and coliseums, are you? He's also deaf
now
> and has serious regrets.
>
> --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Carter Hendricks <carterh@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:05:23 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n568
At 09:10 AM 1/11/99 -0500, Ken Gilbert wrote:
>Well I can see that I've certainly stirred up a rat's nest here.
>I certainly didn't want to come and join the Joelist and
>saturate it with off-topic subjects,
Taking over the newsgroup? --I don't think so.
Anyway the group wades through these off-course
excursions from time to time.
{And, by the way, this is a mailing list, a different sort
of community than those news groups}.
... I like loud fucking music... who cares?
Well, yes, who cares. But you have brought to this
community a new emphasis: Quantity. Sound Pressure.
Your tone has been... so loud! For the past several years
most of the concern here has been Quality, music,
where ever we might find it. In this search some of us
have built amps which output milliwatts [though I now
think that an extra 3 or 4 watts can be quite nice]. All
sorts of amps: push pull, SE, even sand. All mixed
up, along with stories about Ducati and Ferrari and
food and wine and jazz. The excursions come with
the territory. There are no rules.
But this -is- a different sort of community than
those news groups. Light a cigarette. Have
a drink. Relax.
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: Zyxtan@aol.com
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:31:50 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n568
In a message dated 1/11/99 8:47:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
davidbarnett@aristotle.net writes:
> >Try windmilling with a practice amp. Then try it with a few stacks of
> Hiwatts backing you up.
> >
> >
> >If you can't perceive the difference then I am truly sorry.
>
Quick Pete T. story, when I was a dumb youth The Who came to Cinncinati, a
bunch of kids were trampled to death, what did I do-I immediately got tickets
for the Louisville show ! And yes, I rushed the stage to see Pete bleed. Isn't
youth great.
paul(zyxtan@aol.com)
=========================================================================
From: Mike Thompson <miketom@inet1.inetworld.net>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:54:59 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n568
I can't speak for AR, but you haven't ridden much in California lately,
huh?
David Barnett wrote:
>
> On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:10:26 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In Rhode Island, we are the only state in America that does not require a helmet to be worn by th
e driver of a motorcycle.
>
> Not true. CA and AR, and probably some other states as well, also
> allow helmetless riding.
>
> --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:13:36 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n568
Mike McCall wrote:
> For those who have never had to deal with a true addiction, it's
> hard to understand the difference between an addiction and a habit.
Bad habits die hard, huh?? (Pun intended)
Christian
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:41:57 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n568
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:07:44 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
wrote:
>Try windmilling with a practice amp. Then try it with a few stacks of Hiwatts backing you up.
>
>
>If you can't perceive the difference then I am truly sorry.
I've done both, with my '69 Gibson SG Special "Pete Townshend Live At
Leeds Model" guitar. OF COURSE there's a difference, who said there
wasn't?
But in a 300-seat club, inflicting three 100W Hiwatt stacks on the
audience is not art, its masturbating on stage at the expense of the
audience. Playing TO THE ROOM is an important part of the art of
music performance.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:42:01 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n568
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:25:21 -0500, Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
wrote:
>We are both wrong.
>
>
>Only 4 states have absolutely no helmet laws: Colorado, Iowa, Illinois, and New Hampshire.
>
>
>California has full helmet laws. Arizona is mandatory <<18 years old.
>
>
>Rhode Island is actually mandatory <<21 years old.
Thanks for the correction.
Arkansas relaxed its helmet laws sometime last year.
>
>
>Helmet is actually a very good band.
Agreed.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:43:57 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n568
Mike, all
First of all, let me thank you for this wonderfully delivered post. I'm
saving this one. I guess it pretty much sums up the perceptions that both
smokers and non-smokers have. IMHO, it's much more objective to give
encouragement and support to smokers in helping they overcome this
addiction and ultimately quit rather than sitting back and condemn.
BTW, a lot has being said about this topic and it's about time to get back
to the real topics on what this list is all about.
Cheers,
Johari
- ----------
> From: Mike McCall <shamrock@voyager.viser.net>
> To: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
> Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 5:23 AM
>
> This issue stirs-up allot of emotions for both smoker and non-smoker
alike. The
> smoker often feels personally attacked, judged, condemned, and outcast
much
> like the lepers of old who weren't even allowed into the city.
Non-smokers
> often have terrible personal tragedies that are their motivation for
their well
> intentioned venom for smoking. Many "reformed" smokers who were able to
stop
> are often more judgmental and condemning than those who have never
smoked. This
> social "war" against smoking is often very personal toward the smoker,
and
> forces a defensive reaction from many on both sides of the issue.
>
> What seems to be missing for the non-smoker is a real grasp of the
addiction.
> I've heard that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. If true, then a
smokers
> knowledge of the dangers has little bearing. It's the addiction that must
be
> over-come. For those who have never had to deal with a true addiction,
it's
> hard to understand the difference between an addiction and a habit. Their
> perception is that quitting smoking is akin to changing a bad or
undesirable
> habit. To complicate things for them, many smokers are able to quit with
> relative ease because for them it's far more a habit than an addiction.
Both
> the non-smoker and the reformed smoker become even more convinced that
it's
> just a habit because of this. Those of us with a true addiction to the
nicotine
> struggle with the same perceptions. After all, if they can quit why can't
I?
>
> Each attempt is more difficult than the last simply because we failed.
Repeated
> failures causes us to be more cautious about our next attempt. We know
what our
> addiction is and will do to us, but have so far been unable to over-come
it. We
> often fear making another attempt and adding another failure to the list.
> There's often a real depression that sets in after a failed attempt,
causing us
> to question every aspect of ourselves in very personal ways. We often
have a
> real desire to stop smoking, but the battle with the addiction is where
we
> fail. With each failed attempt to quit, we become more cautious about
setting
> ourselves up for another failure. The non-smoker's judgmental stance
toward us
> only makes things worse.
>
> When the non-smoker brings out statistical data relating intelligence or
> education to smoking habits, they are in effect stating that we smoke
because
> we're too stupid to quit. This results in more personal damnation for the
> smoker. We're no longer victims of an addiction we haven't been able to
> over-come, we're now the social low-life with huge personal character
flaws who
> are too stupid to either see or care about the freight train coming right
for
> us. For the non-smoker it's a no-brainer; Get the HELL out of the way you
> moron! For them, anyone who continues to smoke given what we now know
about it
> is a complete idiot worthy of any and all ridicule for our continued
smoking.
> The truly addicted smoker soon starts believing this about themselves
more and
> more with each failed attempt at quitting. What started out as a well
> intentioned attempt to motivate the smoker into quitting has now become
another
> point of damnation for them.
>
> Perhaps it's time for a different approach toward the truly addicted
smoker.
> We've made SO many attempts at quitting and failed, that we find it very
> difficult to believe that we CAN over-come our addiction. Encouragement
is far
> more precious for us than the continual pounding we take. Many of us
> desperately want to stop, but so far our addiction has proven to be
stronger.
> Until you've been here with an addiction this strong, don't tell me what
kind
> of person I am because I haven't been able to over-come it. That kind of
> arrogance and self-righteousness only breeds contempt for those who take
that
> stance with me. Put your well intentioned energies into finding ways for
the
> truly addicted to finally over-come our addiction. I wish I knew THE
answer to
> this situation, but I don't. I'm tired of the damnation received from
those
> view my addiction as merely a bad habit, or view it as a simple equation
to
> quit. I am jealous of those who are able to simply put them down and be
free
> from them. I am not one of those people. I too see the freight train
coming and
> want desperately to get the hell out of the way. I just haven't been
able.
>
> My apologies for the off-topic rant. This is a very personal issue for me
for
> many reasons. I damn sure don't want to be standing here when the train
hits.
> However, standing there yelling at me about how stupid I am isn't going
to
> help. Instead of viewing us as moronic because we don't just move off the
> tracks of impending doom, recognize that we're chained to the tracks by
our
> addiction. Don't tell me I'm stupid because I haven't been able to unlock
these
> chains and continue to ridicule, judge, and condemn. Rather, find ways to
help
> me remove the shackles so I can get off the tracks and calm the panic I
feel as
> the train speeds closer. Consider me a badly wounded comrade who needs
your
> help to get out of the line of fire. Many of us are more like someone
wounded
> in battle and unable to take cover on our own. Would you simply tell this
> person how stupid they are for not taking cover? Would you motivate them
to
> take cover by reciting the medical consequences if they don't? They
already
> know they're in trouble and will surely die if they stay out in the open.
This
> addiction is often much like that. Ridiculing us is about as productive
as
> damning a wounded solder. After all, he knows the consequences of staying
out
> in the open. Any fool would simply will themselves into crawling for
cover,
> wouldn't they?
>
> Forgive my off-topic, and long winded post on this subject.
> Mike McCall
> Shamrock Audio
> (503) 873-3755
> http://www.shamrockaudio.com
> shamrock@viser.net
=========================================================================
From: "Rick Blank" <rblank@texas.net>
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:38:34 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n570
Texas has also changed it's helmet laws and no longer require
helmet wearing for riders over the age of 18...but after having my
life saved twice by helmets and riding sport bikes for over 34 years,
I feel that anyone who doesn't wear a helmet would do the human
gene pool a service by getting into a wreck and removing their
particular DNA from humanity!
Plus, wearing a full-face helmet and using soft earplugs cuts down
on the amount of hearing fatigue one experiences!
Rick Blank, KI5SL
AMSAT NA #26195
2331 Vance Jackson Road
San Antonio, Texas 78213
rblank@texas.net
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Taking over the newsgroup!!
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:53:13 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n570
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:54:59 -0800, Mike Thompson
<miketom@inet1.inetworld.net> wrote:
>I can't speak for AR, but you haven't ridden much in California lately,
>huh?
I haven't been to California since 1992. Coincidentally, I flew out
of LA about twelve hours before the riots following the trial of the
cops who beat up Rodney King. Talk about good timing....
I have been informed that CA has had helmet laws enacted fairly
recently, and retract my previous statement and apologize for the
tone. "Not true" is strong language for me to use when I don't know
the facts....
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: Taming the 417A according to Joe...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:51:04 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n353
>Decouple the heater lines with microhenry value RF chokes and put a
.005
>cap across the heater pins.
What specifically is a 'microhenry value'? 1uH ? 10 uH? Could someone
please recommend specific choke parameters. Are these placed inline with
the heater or from the heater line to ground? And the cap is as stated:
Parellel with the tube heater? Pin 3 to 9 in the case of the 417A?
>Use a 470 ohm grid stopper (1/2 W carbon) with the body of the resistor
>right next to the grid pin.
This seems kind of large. Would a 33-100 ohm not do the job?
Regards, David
=========================================================================
From: merrec@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov (Christopher Merren)
Subject: Re: Taming the 417A according to Joe...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:20:21 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n354
David Home wrote:
> >Decouple the heater lines with microhenry value RF chokes and put a
> .005
> >cap across the heater pins.
>
> What specifically is a 'microhenry value'? 1uH ? 10 uH? Could someone
> please recommend specific choke parameters. Are these placed inline with
> the heater or from the heater line to ground? And the cap is as stated:
> Parellel with the tube heater? Pin 3 to 9 in the case of the 417A?
>
> >Use a 470 ohm grid stopper (1/2 W carbon) with the body of the resistor
> >right next to the grid pin.
>
> This seems kind of large. Would a 33-100 ohm not do the job?
>
> Regards, David
To calculate this simply view this as a RC filter single pole.......R*C=
1/(2*pi*f)
Simpler way to view this is by making a voltage divider........
The top resistor is the grid stopper and the lower resistance would be
capacitive reactance( 1/2*pi*fr*C) at frequency of interest.... parasitic
frequency or resonate frequency... Compare this loss in dB by taking LOG of
ratio with respect to 20Khz then multiply by 20..... This will show dB
attenuation of parasitic
The capacitance would be the total C...miller capacitance of triode....
The pentodes have lower input C thus you will generally see higher grid
stoppers....
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com>
Subject: Re: Taming the 417A according to Joe...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:30:05 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n354
I'd use 10 uh inline with the heater and .oo5s across the heater pins.
Yeah 470 ohms is probably more than you need for a grid resistor but wen I
did it, I had a pack of 1/4 w Allen-Bradley 470s front of me. Other folks
on the list report not having RF problems with the 417, but I went nuts
cooling my preamp down. Maybe it was the high RF signal area I was in at
the time. Lived 10 feet from a big hotel with pager antennas and whatnot
on the roof. Hope you have fewer problems. Joe
On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, David Home wrote:
> >Decouple the heater lines with microhenry value RF chokes and put a
> .005
> >cap across the heater pins.
>
> What specifically is a 'microhenry value'? 1uH ? 10 uH? Could someone
> please recommend specific choke parameters. Are these placed inline with
> the heater or from the heater line to ground? And the cap is as stated:
> Parellel with the tube heater? Pin 3 to 9 in the case of the 417A?
>
> >Use a 470 ohm grid stopper (1/2 W carbon) with the body of the resistor
> >right next to the grid pin.
>
> This seems kind of large. Would a 33-100 ohm not do the job?
>
> Regards, David
>
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Tanatalumand mylar caps
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:21:02
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n015
Hi Folks,
My enquiry to Solen for 100V polypropylene caps has drawn a blank;
apparently they are mylar, and made by another manufacturer.
Does anyone know how low voltage tantalum caps sound? My application calls
for about 10 volts, and their size and voltage ratings are attractive.
The other option is mylar. Any comments on this material for audio signal
paths?
Thanks in advance,
Hugh R. Dean
Melbourne, Australia
=========================================================================
From: Ron Steinberg <ca789@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Tanatalumand mylar caps
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:07:24 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n016
Hi Hugh,
Sorry if I misled you with the Solen thing. Taking a quick look at my
Newark catalogue, I come up with Sprague 735P series metalized
polypropylene film caps, 1uF and 10uF @ 100v, Sprague Type 715P Orange
Drop polypropylene caps, 200v, mallory sx series polystyrene film(much
better than polypropylene), 33v,63v,160v in pF values. You didn't mention
what capacitance you were looking for. All of these caps will be less
expensive than 'audiophile grade' and probably sound just as good. What
is your application, coupling, bypass, power supply? This is not an
exhaustive list by any means, just a quick glance at the catalogue. You
might also try Digi-key, although they mainly deal with Panasonic, who
mainly make electrolytics. By the way for all of you who are dead set
against electrolytics, at the Montreal audio show I heard a pair of Audio
Physics Virgo speakers, which I thought were one of the best sounding
speakers at the show. These things use ELECTROLYTICS IN THE CROSSOVER! So
there.
Good luck Hugh,
Ron
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Hugh R. Dean wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> My enquiry to Solen for 100V polypropylene caps has drawn a blank;
> apparently they are mylar, and made by another manufacturer.
>
> Does anyone know how low voltage tantalum caps sound? My application calls
> for about 10 volts, and their size and voltage ratings are attractive.
>
> The other option is mylar. Any comments on this material for audio signal
> paths?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Hugh R. Dean
> Melbourne, Australia
>
>
======================================================================
Ron Steinberg Photographer <ca789@torfree.net>
Though self employed, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
======================================================================
=========================================================================
From: Ron Steinberg <ca789@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Tanatalumand mylar caps
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:08:48 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n016
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Hugh R. Dean wrote:
>
> The other option is mylar. Any comments on this material for audio signal
> paths?
>
My Fisher FM200-C tuner uses mylar caps for coupling stages. To my ears
they sound fine, but I haven't experimented with other types in this
position.
Ron
======================================================================
Ron Steinberg Photographer <ca789@torfree.net>
Though self employed, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
======================================================================
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@mail.gte.net>
Subject: Re: Tanatalumand mylar caps
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:43:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n016
Hugh R. Dean wrote:
> My enquiry to Solen for 100V polypropylene caps has drawn a blank;
> apparently they are mylar, and made by another manufacturer.
Bennic produces an inexpensive film cap in that range, much like Solens,
but like half the price. They're made in Taiwan out of what I don't
know - but not bad sounding.
> Does anyone know how low voltage tantalum caps sound? My application calls
> for about 10 volts, and their size and voltage ratings are attractive.
Tried them in some SS state gadgets years ago, they stank. Very thick
and cruddy sounding. My understanding is that they have a very high
absorption rating that rules them out for many applications - big bounce
back.
> The other option is mylar. Any comments on this material for audio signal
> paths?
Much better than the Tants, duct tape, saran wrap and foil from the
inside of cigarette packs can be made into better caps than tants. But,
heck tants are so cheap at the corner Tandy you can didsmiss them for
yourself.
Ron
=========================================================================
From: slagle@dtlweb.com
Subject: Re: Tanatalumand mylar caps
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:55:01 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n016
how about the nonpolar black gates???? heard good things about them, and
the price ain't that high....
anybody ever try them????
dave
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Tanatalumand mylar caps
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 13:15:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n017
slagle@dtlweb.com wrote:
> how about the nonpolar black gates???? heard good things about them,
> and
> the price ain't that high....
>
> anybody ever try them????
>
>
I've used them in crossovers to replace electrolytics, as bypass caps
(they are the most acceptable here of any others I've tried) and even as
coupling caps (!) following low-impedance drivers. I thought they
sounded pretty good.
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Tanatalum and mylar caps
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:01:31
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n018
Hi Dave, Grover, you both wrote:
>slagle@dtlweb.com wrote:
>
>> how about the nonpolar black gates???? heard good things about them,
>> and
>> the price ain't that high....
>>
>> anybody ever try them????
>>
>I've used them in crossovers to replace electrolytics, as bypass caps
>(they are the most acceptable here of any others I've tried) and even as
>coupling caps (!) following low-impedance drivers. I thought they
>sounded pretty good.
Thank you for the advice; do Handmade stock these? Couldn't see them on
their website.
Cheers,
Hugh R. Dean
Melbourne, Australia
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Tandberg 64X Recorder
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:10:06 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n205
I have been offered a Tandberg 64X tube type r2r recorder from someone I
know. It is in 99% mint condition. The price is $200. Is this model any
good? I've been told it is better than Revox A77, but not quite as good as
B77.
Any thoughts? Steve
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tandberg 64X Recorder
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:52:34 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n205
On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Steve Van Osdell wrote:
> I have been offered a Tandberg 64X tube type r2r recorder from someone I
> know. It is in 99% mint condition. The price is $200. Is this model any
> good? I've been told it is better than Revox A77, but not quite as good as
> B77.
It's a sweet machine. Not as semi-pro as the Revox in terms of reel-size
and controls, but nice.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tandberg 64X Recorder
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:23:23 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n206
On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Thomas Dunker wrote:
> Max tape speed??? Did Tandberg ever make any 15 ips tubed reel-to-reels?
Nope. Their later SS ones had 15ips.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
Subject: Re: Tandberg 64X Recorder
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:05:11 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n206
On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Kalman Rubinson wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Steve Van Osdell wrote:
>
> > I have been offered a Tandberg 64X tube type r2r recorder from someone I
> > know. It is in 99% mint condition. The price is $200. Is this model any
> > good? I've been told it is better than Revox A77, but not quite as good as
> > B77.
>
> It's a sweet machine. Not as semi-pro as the Revox in terms of reel-size
> and controls, but nice.
Max tape speed??? Did Tandberg ever make any 15 ips tubed reel-to-reels?
(I ought to know since Tandberg was a Norwegian company...) I've always
found the tubed Tandbergs a bit disinteresting due to low tape speeds,
so I haven't been out looking for any. Either way, they'd probably be easy
to find here. There's even a store in Oslo that sells NOTHING but old
Tandberg equipment.
Tom D.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.unit.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \------\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone (+47)73916898 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: jc morrison <jcm@eclipse.net>
Subject: Re: Tango 10K or 5K opt?
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:57:48 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n260
hey gary,
if i was you, i'd go for the 5k tranny. you can do nearly any triode
with panache with a 5k tranny. you can also parallel higher impedance
tubes and take advantage of the increased bandwidth (such as 10/VT-25,
10Y, 801A, 843, etc.). 845's work just fine at 5k too! a big 10k tranny
is pretty much just for 211's or any of the big weird transmitting
tubes, no need to plan on those for a first time around! if you need
help dialling the output stage in, drop me a line, we'll do it on the
joenet.
the "dinosaur" circuit is basically a stacked power supply/dc amp, and
the "updated" version published in sound practices can be easily adapted
to any triode. please have fun with it!
jc
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: Tango 10K or 5K opt?
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n260
On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Gary Johnston wrote:
> So your thinking, should I go with the 5k opt or the 10k output. If you
> do the 5k's, what else can you do, except the 50's. I'm already using
> 5k's in the flesh and bloods that i am working on, and those Tango opts
> have a 1.5k, a 3.5k, and a 5k tap.
>
> But if you get the 10k's, you can do 845's, or 211's, maybe, and forget
> doing the Dinosaur.
The 10k is cool also for tubes like the 45. But nothing is free and the
extra windings cost parasitics.... If the transformer has both taps then
it is optimized for one or the other.
However the 5k is also fine for the 845. At VSAC last year I demonstrated
the 845 tube in a SE setup using a cascaded 6SN7 driver and loaded with
two Sowter 10K outputs wired in parallel for 5K. The operating point was
Vp=600, Ip=70, Vg=-80. I thought it sounded great. Other's opinions may
vary of course. I had the choice to go with either value and chose the 5k.
I used a single 10k output for the following tubes; 45, 801, 211,
SV811 and SV572.
I used the 5K arrangement for the 845 and initially for the 45 but
at the end we set the 45 back up and ran it at 10k, liking the higher
impedance better (those that commented anyway).
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: Gary Johnston <garyj@superlink.net>
Subject: Tango 10K or 5K opt?
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:46:53 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n260
Lets say that you have your eyes on JC'c Dinosaur amp, you know that the
50's are going to be difficult to buy, and your thinking that maybe I'd
like to try the amp with the mods which he suggests, using the 845's he
suggests.
Now that is a macho tube, and the few amps that I heard using these
things, sound fantastic.
Anyway, say that you have a chance to pick up some Tango opts, the
XE-60(SE)'s.
So your thinking, should I go with the 5k opt or the 10k output. If you
do the 5k's, what else can you do, except the 50's. I'm already using
5k's in the flesh and bloods that i am working on, and those Tango opts
have a 1.5k, a 3.5k, and a 5k tap.
But if you get the 10k's, you can do 845's, or 211's, maybe, and forget
doing the Dinosaur.
Nice quandry to be in, but just looking for your suggestions. I don't
get a chance to make this kind of purchase that often.
And frankly, I don't know enough about all of this to be smart about
the purchase.
thanks for your comments,
Gary
=========================================================================
From: garyj <garyj@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tango 10K or 5K opt?
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:48:41 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n260
jc morrison wrote:
>
> hey gary,
> if i was you, i'd go for the 5k tranny. you can do nearly any triode
> with panache with a 5k tranny. you can also parallel higher impedance
> tubes and take advantage of the increased bandwidth (such as 10/VT-25,
> 10Y, 801A, 843, etc.). 845's work just fine at 5k too! a big 10k tranny
> is pretty much just for 211's or any of the big weird transmitting
> tubes, no need to plan on those for a first time around! if you need
> help dialling the output stage in, drop me a line, we'll do it on the
> joenet.
>
> the "dinosaur" circuit is basically a stacked power supply/dc amp, and
> the "updated" version published in sound practices can be easily adapted
> to any triode. please have fun with it!
> jc
You guys are great! Thanks for all of the comments. I will do the 5ks.
I appreciate the help.
Gary
=========================================================================
From: sferrell <sferrell@pfmc.net>
Subject: Re: Tango 10K or 5K opt?
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:14:20 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n260
Gary Johnston wrote:
> Lets say that you have your eyes on JC'c Dinosaur amp, you know that
> the
> 50's are going to be difficult to buy, and your thinking that maybe
> I'd
> like to try the amp with the mods which he suggests, using the 845's
> he
> suggests.
>
> Now that is a macho tube, and the few amps that I heard using these
> things, sound fantastic.
>
> Anyway, say that you have a chance to pick up some Tango opts, the
> XE-60(SE)'s.
>
> So your thinking, should I go with the 5k opt or the 10k output. If
> you
> do the 5k's, what else can you do, except the 50's. I'm already using
> 5k's in the flesh and bloods that i am working on, and those Tango
> opts
> have a 1.5k, a 3.5k, and a 5k tap.
>
> But if you get the 10k's, you can do 845's, or 211's, maybe, and
> forget
> doing the Dinosaur.
I purchased the Tango X5s which is the large 5k OPT. I like it better
than most 10 k OPTS I
have heard. They work well with 300b 50 845 and 212e tubes. The X5
with the 845 would be a great
combination. I got them from April Sound.
Stewart
>
>
> Nice quandry to be in, but just looking for your suggestions. I don't
> get a chance to make this kind of purchase that often.
>
> And frankly, I don't know enough about all of this to be smart about
> the purchase.
>
> thanks for your comments,
>
> Gary
=========================================================================
From: Steve Fellini <steve@helix.nih.gov>
Subject: Re: Tango 10K or 5K opt?
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:24:38 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n261
Gary,
Here's another option: 7K. I built my 845 amp with the Tango
FX-50-7S. I'm using the low voltage op point mentioned by Grego.
If you go for a 7K or 5K OPT, keep in mind that you can always
"mismatch" the secondary taps to the speaker's impedance, say the 4
ohm tap to 8 ohm speakers, and reflect 14K or 10K back to the plate.
=========================================================================
From: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
Subject: TANGO iron fo sale
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:59:21 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n237
I have a pair of TANGO NY 15 - 3,5 SE for sale.
They have never been soldered in circuit, only clip leaded.
So as new, original box, curves incl, one of them translated by mr. KOJI
himself.
This is TANGOŽs next most expensive unit, and it cost me deep in the
purse, so offers beyond 800 us$ will get you both.
Finn
- --
HOME OF
Tractrix Horns, Tube Amps,
Fieldcoil Loudspeakers and Computer Graphics
http://home5.inet.tele.dk/f-hammer/
=========================================================================
From: Audio1Nut <Audio1Nut@aol.com>
Subject: Tango NC20 for sale
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:19:54 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n285
New in box never used Tango NC20 for $600/pr. This price is firm.
=========================================================================
From: Holger Stein <STEINMUSIC@compuserve.com>
Subject: Tannoy12"
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:33:53 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n030
Hallo,
I got a pair of Tannoy 12" Gold Alnico's with rubber suspension, and have
the idea to build them into a rear loaded horn.
If anybody has already made some experiences it would be nice to share them
with me.
If the TSP are required, it is no problem for me to measure them.
Thank's for the response
Holger Stein
STEIN HIFI SYSTEMS
Scharpenberg 64a
D- 45468 Mülheim
Germany
Fon ++49 208 32089
Fax ++49 208 390938
GSM ++49 172 2143196
STEINMUSIC@Compuserve.com
Worldwide distribution for Ennemoser's C37 Lack
.. and much more.
=========================================================================
From: Michel Paquette <paqm01@GEL.USherb.CA>
Subject: Re: Tannoy12"
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:19:45 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n031
Holger wrote:
>Hallo,
>I got a pair of Tannoy 12" Gold Alnico's with rubber suspension, and have
>the idea to build them into a rear loaded horn.
>If anybody has already made some experiences it would be nice to share them
>with me.
>If the TSP are required, it is no problem for me to measure them.
>Thank's for the response
>Holger Stein
>
>
I also have a pair of Tannoy 12" Gold with a rubber (not foam) suspension.
I wonder if I have the original cones. Even though the cones may not be
original, I think these are a dandy speakers. Can you tell me if the the
cones are original on your Tannoys? I thought the original cones had a
pleated paper suspension. Can you see the horn through the dustcap? I
can, but I need a very strong light to barely see them. Also if one looks
closely at the cones I have, one can see dimples on the paper. Can you
see the dimples on yours?
Wondering,
Michel
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tannoy12"
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:22:40 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n032
Michel Paquette wrote:
>
> Holger wrote:
>
> >Hallo,
> >I got a pair of Tannoy 12" Gold Alnico's with rubber suspension, and have
> >the idea to build them into a rear loaded horn.
> >If anybody has already made some experiences it would be nice to share them
> >with me.
> >If the TSP are required, it is no problem for me to measure them.
> >Thank's for the response
> >Holger Stein
> >
> >
> I also have a pair of Tannoy 12" Gold with a rubber (not foam) suspension.
> I wonder if I have the original cones. Even though the cones may not be
> original, I think these are a dandy speakers. Can you tell me if the the
> cones are original on your Tannoys? I thought the original cones had a
> pleated paper suspension. Can you see the horn through the dustcap? I
> can, but I need a very strong light to barely see them. Also if one looks
> closely at the cones I have, one can see dimples on the paper. Can you
> see the dimples on yours?
>
> Wondering,
>
> Michel
Michel,
I have 12" Monitor Golds which have the original cones. Of this I am
certain, because I purchased them new in the late sixties. The
surrounds are treated paper, treated with that stickey, rubberish stuff
typically used on cone surrounds. I have been advised that the original
replacement cones became unavailable several years ago and that Tannoy
was supplying the butyl surround replacement cones instead, and that the
butyl surround replacement cones do not sound as good as the original
cones, but I have not heard them, so cannot verify this claim. I am not
aware that any of the later model Golds were initially supplied with
butyl surrounds. The Monitor Gold was replaced by the Monitor Royal a
short time after I purchased mine. The Royals have a low fs, 22 Hz, as
I recall, I have the data sheet on them somewhere. I suspect that it is
this cone that s now used as the Monitor Gold replacement, but this is
only speculation.
The original fs spec was 40 Hz, but mine measure a bit higher than this,
about 49 Hz. You would think this would be too high for good bass
response, yet this does not seem to be the case, as most everyone
comments on the good bass response. I used to work with Jonas Renkas,
designer of the Emilar and the earlier Renkus-Heinz line of speakers and
drivers. He took an interest in them and borrowed them to measure their
Thiele-Small parameters. This was over twenty years ago. He found the
Qts to be 0.436, which would suggest fourth order chebychev tuning. I
had built the enclosures in the late sixties using a WAG approach before
Theile-Small had published their work. The enclosures were 4 cu. ft.
tuned to 43 Hz, which reoughly equates to a chebychev alignment.
Chebychev alignments are in order with Qts values higher than the
optimum 0.383. This alignment is satisfied with larger enclosures than
is typical with fourth order Butterworth and are tuned to a frequency
lower than fs which puts the -3dB point below fs. So, it seems as
though I guessed it off pretty well way back then when speaker design
was a much less exacting science than it is today. Jonas' TS
calculations suggested a larger enclosure, about 7 cu. ft., as I recall.
I tried them later in a 7 cu. ft. enclosure tuned to about the same
frequency and they sounded wretched, so I went back to the 4 cu. ft.
enclosure. Another party from somewhere reported the same results with
their 12" Golds. I think the VAS is about 2.5 cu. ft., if I recall
correctly. I measured this once using the sealed box approach which
apparently is not the most exacting technique.
I suspect the butyl surround cones have a much lower fs, therefore, a
lower Qts, which would suggest a different alignment and enclosure size,
perhaps a third or fourth order Butterworth alignment. I would be
interested in your measured parameters if you ever get around to
measuring them. Well, that is about all I can add to this particular
subject. Oh yes, I did modify one of the enclosures to a TL a few years
back and it seemed to work quite well. It exhibited a lower cutoff
frequency, but less apparent bass which is characteristic of TLs. If I
ever get around to building new enclosures for these speakers, they
likely will be four ft. tall TLs to get the speaker center up to seated
ear level. I have them perched atop some other speakers at the present
time to get them up off the floor. They sound much better that way, but
have less apparent bass, as one would suspect, so the 4 ft. TLs may be a
bit shy on apparent bass as this will also put the speaker sufficiently
far from the floor boundary to affect the bass reinforcement below 100
Hz. Oh well, I've got several suitable speakers for bitchin subs, or is
that several bitchin speakers for suitable subs, whatever (a pair of
LE14As and one 2245H).
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Holger Stein <STEINMUSIC@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Tannoy12"
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:10:06 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n033
Hallo Daniel,
Thanks for your informations.
My Tannoys are LSU/HF/12/8, and I just put them on my bench to measure the
TSP's,
but first have to calibrate my DSA measurement system.
So now I used the Adret 201s generator and Bruel&Kjaer 2425 voltmeter to
measure the resonance frequency.
They are very low lying at 20.0 and 20.5 Hertz.
Will inform you when I have all datas from the TSP's.
Have a nice time
Holger Stein
STEIN HIFI SYSTEMS
Scharpenberg 64a
D- 45468 Mülheim
Germany
Fon ++49 208 32089
Fax ++49 208 390938
GSM ++49 172 2143196
STEINMUSIC@Compuserve.com
Worldwide distribution for Ennemoser's C37 Lack
.. and much more.
original message from Dan Marshall:
I have 12" Monitor Golds which have the original cones. Of this I am
certain, because I purchased them new in the late sixties. The
surrounds are treated paper, treated with that stickey, rubberish stuff
typically used on cone surrounds. I have been advised that the original
replacement cones became unavailable several years ago and that Tannoy
was supplying the butyl surround replacement cones instead, and that the
butyl surround replacement cones do not sound as good as the original
cones, but I have not heard them, so cannot verify this claim. I am not
aware that any of the later model Golds were initially supplied with
butyl surrounds. The Monitor Gold was replaced by the Monitor Royal a
short time after I purchased mine. The Royals have a low fs, 22 Hz, as
I recall, I have the data sheet on them somewhere. I suspect that it is
this cone that s now used as the Monitor Gold replacement, but this is
only speculation.
The original fs spec was 40 Hz, but mine measure a bit higher than this,
about 49 Hz. You would think this would be too high for good bass
response, yet this does not seem to be the case, as most everyone
comments on the good bass response. I used to work with Jonas Renkas,
designer of the Emilar and the earlier Renkus-Heinz line of speakers and
drivers. He took an interest in them and borrowed them to measure their
Thiele-Small parameters. This was over twenty years ago. He found the
Qts to be 0.436, which would suggest fourth order chebychev tuning. I
had built the enclosures in the late sixties using a WAG approach before
Theile-Small had published their work. The enclosures were 4 cu. ft.
tuned to 43 Hz, which reoughly equates to a chebychev alignment.
Chebychev alignments are in order with Qts values higher than the
optimum 0.383. This alignment is satisfied with larger enclosures than
is typical with fourth order Butterworth and are tuned to a frequency
lower than fs which puts the -3dB point below fs. So, it seems as
though I guessed it off pretty well way back then when speaker design
was a much less exacting science than it is today. Jonas' TS
calculations suggested a larger enclosure, about 7 cu. ft., as I recall.
I tried them later in a 7 cu. ft. enclosure tuned to about the same
frequency and they sounded wretched, so I went back to the 4 cu. ft.
enclosure. Another party from somewhere reported the same results with
their 12" Golds. I think the VAS is about 2.5 cu. ft., if I recall
correctly. I measured this once using the sealed box approach which
apparently is not the most exacting technique.
I suspect the butyl surround cones have a much lower fs, therefore, a
lower Qts, which would suggest a different alignment and enclosure size,
perhaps a third or fourth order Butterworth alignment. I would be
interested in your measured parameters if you ever get around to
measuring them. Well, that is about all I can add to this particular
subject. Oh yes, I did modify one of the enclosures to a TL a few years
back and it seemed to work quite well. It exhibited a lower cutoff
frequency, but less apparent bass which is characteristic of TLs. If I
ever get around to building new enclosures for these speakers, they
likely will be four ft. tall TLs to get the speaker center up to seated
ear level. I have them perched atop some other speakers at the present
time to get them up off the floor. They sound much better that way, but
have less apparent bass, as one would suspect, so the 4 ft. TLs may be a
bit shy on apparent bass as this will also put the speaker sufficiently
far from the floor boundary to affect the bass reinforcement below 100
Hz. Oh well, I've got several suitable speakers for bitchin subs, or is
that several bitchin speakers for suitable subs, whatever (a pair of
LE14As and one 2245H).
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Michel Paquette <paqm01@GEL.USherb.CA>
Subject: Re: Tannoy12"
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:01:55 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n035
Hello guys,
I measured the TS parameters of one of the Tannoy 12" Gold that I have. I
used a the Delta mass method to determine a few parameters and found the
the frequency of FH and FL using the constant current method for the
others. I'm not an expert at TS parameters nor have I have much experience
at measuring them. I measured them using the Tannoy crossover and without.
They were some minor differences between the two but the data listed below
comes from the crossover included in the measurement setup because it seems
to me as being more realistic from a system point of view.
I haven't really analysed the results yet but what I find a little
discouraging is the low speaker efficiency. I thought that the Tannoy line
as being relatively high efficiency units. Oh well....
I wonder if Holger has similar results using his system? Holger, are you
listening???
Fs= 21.7 Hz
Qt =0.488
Sd =0.05067 Sq M
Vas =254.4 Liters
Cms =706.2 uM/N
Vas =8.98 Cubic Ft
Mms =76.2 gms
1/2 Space SPL =88.3 dB 1W-1M
Mmd = 69.6 gms
Qm =8.06
Fsa/Qe = 42 Fig of Merit
Qe =0.519
Rms =1.2 Kg/s
n0 =0.43 %
B*L =12.2 N/A
Deafboy
>>
>> Holger wrote:
>>
>> >Hallo,
>> >I got a pair of Tannoy 12" Gold Alnico's with rubber suspension, and have
>> >the idea to build them into a rear loaded horn.
>> >If anybody has already made some experiences it would be nice to share them
>> >with me.
>> >If the TSP are required, it is no problem for me to measure them.
>> >Thank's for the response
>> >Holger Stein
>> >
>> >
>> I also have a pair of Tannoy 12" Gold with a rubber (not foam) suspension.
>> I wonder if I have the original cones. Even though the cones may not be
>> original, I think these are a dandy speakers. Can you tell me if the the
>> cones are original on your Tannoys? I thought the original cones had a
>> pleated paper suspension. Can you see the horn through the dustcap? I
>> can, but I need a very strong light to barely see them. Also if one looks
>> closely at the cones I have, one can see dimples on the paper. Can you
>> see the dimples on yours?
>>
>> Wondering,
>>
>> Michel
>
>Michel,
>
>I have 12" Monitor Golds which have the original cones. Of this I am
>certain, because I purchased them new in the late sixties. The
>surrounds are treated paper, treated with that stickey, rubberish stuff
>typically used on cone surrounds. I have been advised that the original
>replacement cones became unavailable several years ago and that Tannoy
>was supplying the butyl surround replacement cones instead, and that the
>butyl surround replacement cones do not sound as good as the original
>cones, but I have not heard them, so cannot verify this claim. I am not
>aware that any of the later model Golds were initially supplied with
>butyl surrounds. The Monitor Gold was replaced by the Monitor Royal a
>short time after I purchased mine. The Royals have a low fs, 22 Hz, as
>I recall, I have the data sheet on them somewhere. I suspect that it is
>this cone that s now used as the Monitor Gold replacement, but this is
>only speculation.
>
>The original fs spec was 40 Hz, but mine measure a bit higher than this,
>about 49 Hz. You would think this would be too high for good bass
>response, yet this does not seem to be the case, as most everyone
>comments on the good bass response. I used to work with Jonas Renkas,
>designer of the Emilar and the earlier Renkus-Heinz line of speakers and
>drivers. He took an interest in them and borrowed them to measure their
>Thiele-Small parameters. This was over twenty years ago. He found the
>Qts to be 0.436, which would suggest fourth order chebychev tuning. I
>had built the enclosures in the late sixties using a WAG approach before
>Theile-Small had published their work. The enclosures were 4 cu. ft.
>tuned to 43 Hz, which reoughly equates to a chebychev alignment.
>Chebychev alignments are in order with Qts values higher than the
>optimum 0.383. This alignment is satisfied with larger enclosures than
>is typical with fourth order Butterworth and are tuned to a frequency
>lower than fs which puts the -3dB point below fs. So, it seems as
>though I guessed it off pretty well way back then when speaker design
>was a much less exacting science than it is today. Jonas' TS
>calculations suggested a larger enclosure, about 7 cu. ft., as I recall.
>I tried them later in a 7 cu. ft. enclosure tuned to about the same
>frequency and they sounded wretched, so I went back to the 4 cu. ft.
>enclosure. Another party from somewhere reported the same results with
>their 12" Golds. I think the VAS is about 2.5 cu. ft., if I recall
>correctly. I measured this once using the sealed box approach which
>apparently is not the most exacting technique.
>
>I suspect the butyl surround cones have a much lower fs, therefore, a
>lower Qts, which would suggest a different alignment and enclosure size,
>perhaps a third or fourth order Butterworth alignment. I would be
>interested in your measured parameters if you ever get around to
>measuring them. Well, that is about all I can add to this particular
>subject. Oh yes, I did modify one of the enclosures to a TL a few years
>back and it seemed to work quite well. It exhibited a lower cutoff
>frequency, but less apparent bass which is characteristic of TLs. If I
>ever get around to building new enclosures for these speakers, they
>likely will be four ft. tall TLs to get the speaker center up to seated
>ear level. I have them perched atop some other speakers at the present
>time to get them up off the floor. They sound much better that way, but
>have less apparent bass, as one would suspect, so the 4 ft. TLs may be a
>bit shy on apparent bass as this will also put the speaker sufficiently
>far from the floor boundary to affect the bass reinforcement below 100
>Hz. Oh well, I've got several suitable speakers for bitchin subs, or is
>that several bitchin speakers for suitable subs, whatever (a pair of
>LE14As and one 2245H).
>
>Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Holger Stein <STEINMUSIC@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Tannoy12" finally measured
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:56:28 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n079
Hallo Michel, Hallo Daniel and whoever else is interested,
I finally found the time to measure my Tannoy 12" Gold, a LSU/HF/12/8
Type, serial Nr. 121 422 with rubber surround.
Here are my results using a DSA measurement system.
In the first row you see what Daniel measured on his speakers, in the
second what I found at mine.
Fs= 21.7 Hz 19.6Hz
Qt =0.488 0.26
Sd =0.05067 Sq M
Vas =254.4 Liters 449.3Liters
Cms =706.2 uM/N 1.19mm/N
Vas =8.98 Cubic Ft 449.3Liters
Mms =76.2 gms 55.2gms
1/2 Space SPL =88.3 dB 1W-1M 92.8dB (will be good 90 dB built in)
Mmd = 69.6 gms
Qm =8.06 ??????? 4.83
Fsa/Qe = 42 Fig of Merit
Qe =0.519 0.27
Rms =1.2 Kg/s 1.4Kg/s
n0 =0.43 % 1.2%
B*L =12.2 N/A 11.8N/A
With this facts it is no problem to calculate an enclosure, (130l or 165l),
but
does anybody of you have some experiences how they should be handled in a
real life situation?
Best regards
Holger Stein
STEIN HIFI SYSTEMS
Scharpenberg 64a
D- 45468 Mülheim
Germany
Fon ++49 208 32089
Fax ++49 208 390938
GSM ++49 172 2143196
STEINMUSIC@Compuserve.com
Worldwide distribution for Ennemoser's C37 Lack
.. and much more.
=========================================================================
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: Tannoy12" finally measured
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 97 11:18:32 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n081
>In the first row you see what Daniel measured on his speakers, in the
>second what I found at mine.
The second looks more like what I would have expected.
>With this facts it is no problem to calculate an enclosure, (130l or 165l),
>but
>does anybody of you have some experiences how they should be handled in a
>real life situation?
>Best regards
>Holger Stein
I guess Tannoy's Alex Garner might have some idea of what to do with them.
Following is a message he sent me:
>Hi Peter
>
>12" Golds work in two cabinet sizes. 75 litres for a 'compact' down
>to about 48Hz and 150 litres for best results down to 35Hz. Ports for
>150 litres would be 2 x 100mm diameter and about 200mm long.
>75litres needs 2 x 50mm about 100mm long. For best results the port
>length needs to be tuned by measuring the impedance in the 20Hz to
>100Hz area using a sinewave oscillator and an analogiue multimeter,
>tuning for the dip between 2 peaks to coincidewith 48Hz and 35 Hz
>respectively.
>
>Cheers
>
>Alex
Dr. Peter Campbell (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
C/O Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O. Ph.61-2-62464053 or -62464158 (w)
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601 61-2-62516213 (h)
Australia 61-2-62464173 (fax)
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tannoy12" finally measured
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 09:26:05 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n082
peterca@ento.csiro.au wrote:
>
> >In the first row you see what Daniel measured on his speakers, in the
> >second what I found at mine.
>
> The second looks more like what I would have expected.
>
> >With this facts it is no problem to calculate an enclosure, (130l or 165l),
> >but
> >does anybody of you have some experiences how they should be handled in a
> >real life situation?
> >Best regards
> >Holger Stein
>
> I guess Tannoy's Alex Garner might have some idea of what to do with them.
> Following is a message he sent me:
>
> >Hi Peter
> >
> >12" Golds work in two cabinet sizes. 75 litres for a 'compact' down
> >to about 48Hz and 150 litres for best results down to 35Hz. Ports for
> >150 litres would be 2 x 100mm diameter and about 200mm long.
> >75litres needs 2 x 50mm about 100mm long. For best results the port
> >length needs to be tuned by measuring the impedance in the 20Hz to
> >100Hz area using a sinewave oscillator and an analogiue multimeter,
> >tuning for the dip between 2 peaks to coincidewith 48Hz and 35 Hz
> >respectively.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Alex
>
> Dr. Peter Campbell (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
> C/O Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O. Ph.61-2-62464053 or -62464158 (w)
> Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601 61-2-62516213 (h)
> Australia 61-2-62464173 (fax)
Perhaps the above enclosure information should be somewhat qualified, as
the parameters recently measured and reported here for 12 Monitor Golds
are vastly different than my units which still have the original factory
cones. It appears that the recent measurements may have been taken on
units which have been reconed with the butyl surround cone kit. I could
be wrong, but I am not aware of any of the original Gold units having
been supplied with low fs cones, only the reconed units.
My Golds were purchased in 1968 or 69. The Monitor Royal was the next
model introduced. It had the much lower spec on resonant frequency (22
Hz, as I recall). So, it would seem that enclosure recommendations for
the Monitor Royale would be more suitable for the butyl-edge reconed
Monitor Golds, than would the above recommendations which I suspect were
intended for the original Gold units. Since the above tuning
recommendations supplied by Peter C. do not indicate for which set of
speaker parameters they were intended, a bit of caution may be in order
before breaking out the buzz saw and having at it.
My enclosures are 4 cu ft tuned to 43 Hz (the cone resonance is 49 Hz
and Qts is 0.436). I retuned the enclosures to 38 Hz a while back and
used a 38 Hz 2nd order equalizer. With this tuning/eq they put out a
lot more and better bass than you would suspect a speaker having an fs
of 49 Hz could ever accomplish. This is possible because of the high
Qts which allows a Chebychev order tuning which tunes the enclosure
below fs. The apparent power handling capacity is not diminished, at
least in the way in which I generally listen. I like a lot of bass and
generally tend to crank up the bass boost control. With the eq in the
signal path (9 dB at 38 Hz) they have plenty of bass when run with the
tone controls switched completely out of the circuit. It gives a
different character to the bass, giving the low end a bit of extra
punch, probably more than the normal rolloff characteristic of the
speaker/enclosure. Since the 2nd order eq boost peaks at 38 Hz and then
rolls off at 12 dB/octave, it prevents the very low frequencies from
overdriving the cone, so overall the perception of bass response and
powerhandling capacity is subjectively greater. Also, the extra low-end
punch satisifies my ear w/o requiring the bass at such a high level.
OK, OK, maybe its not Hi-Fi, but that is the way I like it, so thats the
way I will listen to it. I have always been partial to very low bass.
Maybe I will get one of the three subwoofer projects underway one of
these days.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Holger Stein <STEINMUSIC@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Tannoy12" finally measured
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:32:42 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n082
Hallo Peter,
Thanks for the information.
Are you sure Alex Garner refered to the LSU/HF/12-8?
It is the one with rubber surround and Alnico magnet,
and I also have the switches and crossovers.
The exact data for my enclosures are 130L, port diameter 110mm, 145mm long
or
165L, 110mm x 160mm long.
I want to tweak the crossover regarding to the quality of the caps used,
is it useful to change something else?
Best regards
Holger Stein
STEIN HIFI SYSTEMS
Scharpenberg 64a
D- 45468 Mülheim
Germany
Fon ++49 208 32089
Fax ++49 208 390938
GSM ++49 172 2143196
STEINMUSIC@Compuserve.com
Worldwide distribution for Ennemoser's C37 Lack
.. and much more.
=========================================================================
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: Tannoy12" finally measured
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 11:56:21 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n083
>Perhaps the above enclosure information should be somewhat qualified, as
>the parameters recently measured and reported here for 12 Monitor Golds
>are vastly different than my units which still have the original factory
>cones. It appears that the recent measurements may have been taken on
>units which have been reconed with the butyl surround cone kit. I could
>be wrong, but I am not aware of any of the original Gold units having
>been supplied with low fs cones, only the reconed units.
>
>My Golds were purchased in 1968 or 69. The Monitor Royal was the next
>model introduced. It had the much lower spec on resonant frequency (22
>Hz, as I recall). So, it would seem that enclosure recommendations for
>the Monitor Royale would be more suitable for the butyl-edge reconed
>Monitor Golds, than would the above recommendations which I suspect were
>intended for the original Gold units. Since the above tuning
>recommendations supplied by Peter C. do not indicate for which set of
>speaker parameters they were intended, a bit of caution may be in order
>before breaking out the buzz saw and having at it.
>Dan Marshall
Fair enough comments. I have some specs published in 1968 that say that
the free air resonance of the 15" Monitor Gold is 20Hz. That accords with
my driver which has the original cone with a pleated paper edge treated
with some sticky damping stuff. I had assumed that that the original 12"
version would also have a low resonance albeit not quite as low as 20Hz. I
had also assumed that the Qts would be low as it seems to be for the 15"
driver.
Dr. Peter Campbell (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
C/O Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O. Ph.61-2-62464053 or -62464158 (w)
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601 61-2-62516213 (h)
Australia 61-2-62464173 (fax)
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:01:26 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n126
STEVE CORNETT wrote:
>
> Aernoud asked:
>
> "...Has anybody...tried Tannoy studio monitors with 300B SET amps?"
>
> Not the modern monitors, but I have a pair of 12 inch Golds in small
> Devon cabinets that work pretty well with my 300Bs. I'm considering
> trying another cabinet, but have been pretty hooked on the Valencias
> lately and haven't done anything about it yet. The Tannoys are efficient
> enough, and very coherent, but lack the fun, bounce, and excitement of
> the Altecs, IMHO. If I was shopping and had the bucks, though, I'd
> definitely like to listen to a pair of the 15 DMT II monitors.
>
> Steve C.
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
> - Albert Einstein
Steve,
I run my Tannoy 12" Golds in a 4 cu. ft. cabinet which seems to be about
the right size. I have tried them in larger cabinets with disappointing
results, but have not tried them in smaller enclosures. Mine have a
rather high fs of 49 Hz and a rather high Qts of .436, so I tune for a
rough approximation of chebychev tuning. The enclosures were tuned to
43 Hz for years. A while back, I tuned the enclosures down to about 35
Hz and added a 2nd order low-level eq. This really added a lot to the
bass punch and depth, eliminating a previously perceived need for a sub
woofer and the urge to crank up the bass control. They have plenty of
bass now when run w/o tone controls. The eq has quite a bit of boost at
the box frequency, but they handle plenty of power, as the cone movement
is restricted by the box tuning at/near the peak of the 2nd order eq.
The eq also attenuates frequencies substantially below the box tuning
frequency which avoids very-low-frequency overdrive. In this specific
application, the 2nd order eq seems to work out very well, much better
than tone controls or a 10 band equalizer, it seems. In this
configuration in a typical listening room, you can crank them as loud as
you bear without overdrive. And, they will reproduce bass you can feel
in the pit of your stomach, something they would not do before the
retuning and eq.
They seem to be getting a bit soft on the top end compared with some
other speakers I have played with lately and I suspect they would
benefit from a crossover cap upgrade or maybe biamp. I haven't ripped
into the crossovers, but have been told that Tannoy used electrolytics
in the crossovers and these are about 30 years old. When I get back
into the cabinet building mode, I would like to construct a pair of four
foot high towers a bit over a foot square with the speakers in the very
top, to get them up to ear level. Although they have less bass when
placed at ear level and spaced out from the wall a bit, they sound
better overall.
Of interest to me is, how do the older Tannoy classic speakers stack up
against the current Tannoy models? Has Tannoy improved or gone downhill
in recent years? I have not had the opportunity to do a direct
listening comparison, so would be very interested in other's opinion's
who may have done so.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: Tannoy?
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:22:00 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n126
Aernoud asked:
"...Has anybody...tried Tannoy studio monitors with 300B SET amps?"
Not the modern monitors, but I have a pair of 12 inch Golds in small
Devon cabinets that work pretty well with my 300Bs. I'm considering
trying another cabinet, but have been pretty hooked on the Valencias
lately and haven't done anything about it yet. The Tannoys are efficient
enough, and very coherent, but lack the fun, bounce, and excitement of
the Altecs, IMHO. If I was shopping and had the bucks, though, I'd
definitely like to listen to a pair of the 15 DMT II monitors.
Steve C.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
- - Albert Einstein
=========================================================================
From: Daniel Normolle <monk@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:32:16 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n126
Aernoud van der Wielen wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Has anybody (besides Harvey (Gizmo) Rosenberg) has tried Tannoy studio
> monitors with 300B SET amps?
SET, but not 300B. I use Tannoy 12 DMT II's, and they're great!
Smooth,well-balanced, efficient, and with imaging unsurpassed by any speaker.
I have a problematic listening room; it is 10x15', opens into the living and
dining rooms, but the speakers have to be placed along the long wall to avoid
toddler collisions, so the speakers really must be about 8' from the listener,
yet the volume of air to be filled with sound is rather large. Horns would
clearly
not work here. The Tannoys function quite well. They seemed shrill at first,
but broke in after 20-30 hours, and biwiring helped. The cabinets are not
gloriously finished, but they're very solid, and certainly the aesthetics would
not present a problem for this crowd.
I run them on 5 WPC. I think they're an excellent option for those of us
without old movie theaters to ransack for vintage VOT components.
dpn
=========================================================================
From: Aernoud van der Wielen <aernoud@usn.nl>
Subject: Tannoy?
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 12:48:06 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n126
Hi there,
Has anybody (besides Harvey (Gizmo) Rosenberg) has tried Tannoy studio
monitors with 300B SET amps?
The Tannoy System 15 DMT II monitors are looking quite 'rocking' to me.
(see http://www.tannoy.com/proinfo/products/monitor/sys15.htm)
Also read their 'whitepaper' about the Dual Concentric drivers. Looks to me
like a nice solution for making point-sources.
I could be wrong though. Anybody any opinions?
Aernoud
=========================================================================
From: "Owen Young" <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:04:43 -1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n127
Daniel Marshall wrote:
> Of interest to me is, how do the older Tannoy classic speakers stack up
> against the current Tannoy models? Has Tannoy improved or gone downhill
> in recent years? I have not had the opportunity to do a direct
> listening comparison, so would be very interested in other's opinion's
> who may have done so.
Daniel I don't have a lot of experience here but as I commented to Aernoud,
Steve, Daniel N., the old paper cone Tannoys have something that the new
plastic ones don't( or the other way around perhaps). A sort of delicacy,
speed and life that manifests itself in the form of effortlessness of
dynamics, low level detail and a different tone. I'm sure that the new
speakers can be demonstrated to be more accurate in many areas but the old
Golds have something. I'd like to hear the newer paper coned Tannoys.
Owen Young
Auckland, New Zealand
oyoung@clear.net.nz
=========================================================================
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 97 11:04:38 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n128
>STEVE CORNETT wrote:
>>
>> Aernoud asked:
>>
>> "...Has anybody...tried Tannoy studio monitors with 300B SET amps?"
>>
>> Not the modern monitors, but I have a pair of 12 inch Golds in small
>> Devon cabinets that work pretty well with my 300Bs. ......
>> Steve C.
And I use 15" Monitor Golds (C. 1969) with a 10W parallel EL84 SE amp (to
be replaced with DHT-SE sometime soon)
>They seem to be getting a bit soft on the top end compared with some
>other speakers I have played with lately and I suspect they would
>benefit from a crossover cap upgrade or maybe biamp. I haven't ripped
>into the crossovers, but have been told that Tannoy used electrolytics
>in the crossovers and these are about 30 years old.......
I have the crossover plans which were the same for the 12" and 15" Monitor
Golds. I have ripped into them. The design is good, just enough parts to
work well, not too many. The caps in the tweeter section are a 6.7uF,
1.5uF and 3.3uF (from memory on that last one). All are plastic types,
probably polyester I guess. The woofer section has a series inductor and a
parallel 16uF electrolytic. I replaced all of these with MIT or Solen
polypropylenes and felt it was an improvement in transparancy. Also hard
wiring to bypass the tweeter level and rolloff switches was worthwhile.
These changes tended to increase the brightness and the last change I did
was to hardwire the second lowest tap on the L part of the CL filter (which
also acts as an autotransformer to raise or lower the tweeter level). That
second lowest tap is also the driven tap so this was a "direct through"
position, neither stepped up or down. Apart from backing off on the
brightness just the right amount this gave further clarity.
>Of interest to me is, how do the older Tannoy classic speakers stack up
>against the current Tannoy models?......
I compared my Tannoys side by side with a 3838 15" dual concentric of early
1980s vintage (a newer paper cone, ceramic magnet, reinforcing struts on
rear of cone, more shallow cone profile and hence a different horn flare).
Both were in large reflex boxes but not identical. Mine were distinctly
more efficient (approx. 4db). We (a friend who owned the 3838s and I)
thought there was a region in the mid range where the 3838 sounded a little
bit smoother but in all other respects we prefered the older model.
Overall character was more similar than different however.
Dr. Peter Campbell (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O. Ph.61-2-62464053 or -62464158 (w)
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601 61-2-62516213 (h)
Australia 61-2-62464173 (fax)
=========================================================================
From: "Bastien Bouchard" <bastienb@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:58:35 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n130
> Daniel I don't have a lot of experience here but as I commented to
Aernoud,
> Steve, Daniel N., the old paper cone Tannoys have something that the new
> plastic ones don't( or the other way around perhaps). A sort of delicacy,
> speed and life that manifests itself in the form of effortlessness of
> dynamics, low level detail and a different tone. I'm sure that the new
> speakers can be demonstrated to be more accurate in many areas but the
old
> Golds have something. I'd like to hear the newer paper coned Tannoys.
Very accurate description of the vintage 15" flavour. Relaxing, involving
and impressive sound at the same time, wich is rarely seen.
I listened to the recent Dual Concentric S 300 (high price PA model)
side by side with my vintage 15" last summer. The S 300 was much more
neutral with more extended high frequ. resp. The bass was very tight, but
not deep (>70 Hz), this speaker being intented to be used with a sub. The
midrange was more forward and a touch aggressive, altough very listenable.
Giving that this speaker is destinated for PA application and have
something like 500 watts (!!!) continuous power rating, the performance in
a home listening situation in passive filter configuration was surprising
and impressive, to say the least.
I can't imagine any other high power full range PA speaker being listenable
at home, even processed. The performance in a show situation was also
oustanding: we covered a 1,200 persons assistance in an exterior site (260'
width...) with only one pair of these, coupled with a couple of subs under
125 Hz! The sound remains extremely detailed and smooth in the midrange in
particular, with the great advantage off absence of phase aberration and
bad lobbing phenomenon. The general rendition was clear, articulate and
natural, more than i ever heard from a PA system, even the very good
Meyer sound.
Bastien
=========================================================================
From: Daniel Normolle <monk@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:14:09 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n130
Bastien Bouchard wrote:
> I listened to the recent Dual Concentric S 300 (high price PA model)
> side by side with my vintage 15" last summer. The S 300 was much more
> neutral with more extended high frequ. resp. The bass was very tight, but
> not deep (>70 Hz), this speaker being intented to be used with a sub. The
> midrange was more forward and a touch aggressive, altough very listenable.
> Giving that this speaker is destinated for PA application and have
> something like 500 watts (!!!) continuous power rating, the performance in
> a home listening situation in passive filter configuration was surprising
> and impressive, to say the least.
>
> I can't imagine any other high power full range PA speaker being listenable
> at home, even processed.
The 12 Series DMT II is a studio monitor, not a PA speaker, so it is
quiteusuable in a home situation. The 15" versions (or the double-15" models),
while attractive, were deemed overkill.
Since I was chastised for my "aesthetics" comments last week, I might note
that they look fine in a home-theater kinda way, black grillcloth with gold
"Tannoy" emblem meaningful to the cognoscenti, but they ARE spray-painted
black boxes and do not have the nice rosewood veneer that somehow doubles
the price.
I hope to report in January on how they sound with the OT-coupled preamp
out of Valve and the new, improved cathode-coupled SET amps.
dpn
=========================================================================
From: David Lawrence <hmdplawr@uxmail.ust.hk>
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:09:34 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n132
Hello everyone,
This afternoon I gained some new experiences which I can add to
this thread. I would be very interested to learn some explanation for
what I found.
I have been in the process of building some new "ambitious" 300b
amps, and have been looking for some speakers to use with them here in
Hong Kong. (I have some Lowthers in the States I love, but I wanted to
try something new and smaller.) Two types of speakers which I had been
thinking about are both the Tannoy professional monitors and the
Stirling TW with paper cones. The discussion of the 12 DMT II got me
very curious. It's high sensitivity appealed to me. I also liked its
enormous power handling potential--which seems to indicate it would be
durable in experiments with OTL amps. Anyway, to get an idea of the
possibilities for SE 300b, I brought to the store a highly modified Cary
AES SE 1. For the record, this amp has an extra input stage, a choke in
the power supply and extra power supply caps with bypass. (I've heard
the arguments both ways about extra power supply caps, but in this
circuit it made a clear improvement). Basically the unit sounds much
faster than stock, musical and well-balanced. Though obviously far from
the best SE, it beats most push-pull. The bass is rather undamped and
fat, but pretty good. I've heard the amp on different speakers and it
seems pretty consistent.
Anyway, we first tried the amp on the 12 DMT, 8 ohm speakers with
96 db sensitivity and 12 inch woofers. The sound in many respects was
excellent-smooth, detailed and transparent. However, the bass was much
different than I ever heard the SE 1 sound--it sounded overdamped and
rather thin. Since the sound overall was good, and the amp had never
had bass like that, I was inclined to think that it was due to
something else in the dealer's system. The speakers seemed like they
were probably a quite attractive possibility. Then we tried the
Stirlings (which I had heard sound quite good with non-SE amps) at twice
the price, 8 ohm speakers with 10 inch paper woofers and 93db
sensitivity. This is when I was really surprised. The amp again
sounded exactly like it usually does. There was much more bass with the
same somewhat underdamped fat sound. Voice tones were also more natural
sounding than the 12 DMT, but actually I think the latter sounded more
transparent and had more detail. This is disappointing because I could
easily live with the rest of the 12DMT sound, and they seem like a great
deal. The bass anomaly convinced me that there was something wrong
with the interface with the amp-speaker interface. The dealer suggested
that these speakers, even though 3db more sensitive, and sounding
overall livelier than the Stirlings, have "very big voice coils" on
their woofers and "need a lot of current" to make the bass the bass of
which they are capable. He says they have much more bass with solid
state amps.
Sorry for the length of the explanation. I thought it might be
interesting to others. I wonder if the 12DMT's would work well with
another SE 300b amp. Daniel, what kind of bass do you get from them? I
am convinced that speaker-amp interfacing is even much more complicated
than I expected.
Best regards,
David Lawrence
=========================================================================
From: Daniel Normolle <monk@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:14:34 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n133
David Lawrence wrote:
> Anyway, we first tried the amp on the 12 DMT, 8 ohm speakers with
> 96 db sensitivity and 12 inch woofers. The sound in many respects was
> excellent-smooth, detailed and transparent. However, the bass was much
> different than I ever heard the SE 1 sound--it sounded overdamped and
> rather thin.
> I wonder if the 12DMT's would work well with
> another SE 300b amp. Daniel, what kind of bass do you get from them? I
> am convinced that speaker-amp interfacing is even much more complicated
> than I expected.
I hear great bass; good control, well balanced, not boomy. I hear low NOTES
rather than low SOUNDS. I get off on a good double bass sound, like Ray
Brown on Ellington's "This One's for Blanton", the Mingus releases on
Impulse! or Charlie Haden on the Atlantic Ornette Coleman box.
Now, I BELIEVE (disclaimer of absolute knowledge implied) your dealer
was right, the Tannoys "have very big voice coils" on their woofers and "need
a lot of current" to really swing, and I have that current and you don't
because my amp:
1) has a grossly over-spec'd PS (three trannies+three chokes) with a hefty
Dunker Factor,
2) has nice, big AN 1.25K trannies,
3) has the fabulous damping factor you get with the CF output stage (you
KNEW that was coming, didn't you?), and possibly,
4) uses the 6AS7G tubes that pass oodles of current at relatively low
plate voltages (I am less convinces of this assertion. I mean, I know
they eat current big time, but whether or not this is related to bass
performance is less clear to me. But I thought I'd claim it, anyway).
If this is true, it would indicate I get synergy with the Tannoys and my design
and you don't, just like the Lowthers and certain amps, which wouldn't
surprise me one bit. If the Tannoys were universally superior, everyone
would be using them. I know they make a 10 DMT II, do they make an 8"
model? Maybe you should try those.
Or, you could modify the SE 1, be the first persom on the planet to build
a 300B CF amp
Seriously, though, I am convinced that the 6AS7G (or WE 421 or ?) CF
output stage is a seriously underappreciated configuration that solves
certain problems inherent in many SE configurations (i.e., poor bass), the
tradeoff being the need for a big-time voltage swing on the driver stage.
You guys give me a call the next time you want to check on the weather in
SE Michigan, I'll prove it to you.
dpn
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: Re: Tannoy?
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:32:49 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n133
I also think some of the differences you heard could be due to the
composition of the driver, paper versus plastic.
Steve C.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
- - Albert Einstein
=========================================================================
From: "Owen Young" <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Tannoy? Aesthetics!!?
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:41:23 -1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n126
Hi Aernoud, Daniel, Steve
> Aernoud van der Wielen wrote:
> > Has anybody (besides Harvey (Gizmo) Rosenberg) has tried Tannoy studio
> > monitors with 300B SET amps?
Yes I have heard my 300B ANote Kit 1 with 215DMTII and also 12DMTs or 15DMT
(I can't be sure which)Studio Monitors. The Kit1 drove the 215s OK but did
not have the desired freedom of dynamics and bottom end power from the
2x15inch drivers. Tonally fine. Maybe the Xover or 2x drivers sucked a
little too much
from the amp? However the 15DMTs were indeed very good with the 300B Kit1
as Daniel reports.
Daniel Normolle wrote:
> and certainly the aesthetics would not present a problem for this crowd.
Ouch! Really Daniel, I am deeply, deeply wounded!!!!
You will have to stay back after class and write out ten times by hand and
memorise, Herb Reichert's "The Dream I Want" in SP#13. Then please present
the essence of Herb's treatise in the form of a perfect Haikku poem!
PS. these new Tannoys don't have the huge scale, dynamic openness and
apparent sensitivity of old paper cone Tannoy Gold horns like say GRF
Professionals, but are less coloured and more seamless OTOH, IMHO.
Owen Young
Auckland, New Zealand
oyoung@clear.net.nz
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Tannoy (again)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:29:27 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n248
Hi,
Do any of you Tannoy guys know about "Little Gold Monitors"??
Are they alnico and are the drivers (paper) the same as Monitor Golds?
TIA,
Mark
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Tannoy crossovers
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 17:14:10 -0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n084
Today I received the crossover schematics for the
12" and 15" red monitors from Tannoy. Unfortunately
there are two component values unreadable on this
bad copy.
Here is some ASCII art:
12" Reds:
+------------------------------------o LF
|
AMP+ o---+---- 5uF ---+---- 2uF ----+-----+---o HF
| | |
+-- ?? Ohms --+ 250uH
|
5 Ohms
|
AMP- o------------------------------------+---o GND
15" Reds:
AMP+ o---+---- 2uF ---+---- 2uF ----+---------o HF
| | |
| +-- 30 Ohms --+
|
|
+--- ?? mH --------+-----------------o LF
|
18uF
|
AMP - o---------------------+-----------------o GND
Can someone please fill in the missing values?
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: Tannoy driver construcion questions
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:50:16 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n564
The cabinets for my 12" Monitor Golds are getting very close to completion,
and I have a couple of questions about the construction of the driver
itself. My dilemma is caused by me choosing to mount the drivers from the
front of the enclosure, not from the inside as the drivers are designed for.
I did this for several reasons. I had some concerns about diffraction at the
hole edge, which is quite thick as my walls are 1.5" thickness. Secondly, I
just prefer the appearance of front mounting. But mostly I did not want to
have to provide a removable back or large access hole to get the drive into
the finished box.
Looking from the front of the driver, there is a ring made of four sections
of 'U' shaped steel with a foam gasket in the cavity. The break between the
sections is where the mounting bolt holes are drilled in the cast basket. I
think this ring is there to provide a firm mount with the enclosure, while
the foam compresses and provides a seal. This ring is rendered redundant
when the driver is mounted from the front. As well it is butt ugly. I wish
to remove it and replace it with a machined solid ring of minimum thickness
that will both hide the mounting bolts and look real pretty.
Below the existing four section ring is a layer of what looks like yellow
paper, then the surround and finally the basket. It looks like some kind of
glue is on the paper and the surround where they overlap. Each ring section
is held on by four screws threaded from the magnet side into the stamped
steel ring section. OK, here's the question.
Does the four section ring hold the surround in or is it secured by the
paper and glue? Can I safely remove the ring pieces without damaging the
drivers? As well as being paralyzed with fear that I might damage the
surround/cone, if the rings do secure the surround then my new pretty one
piece ring will need to be made stronger. Thanks.
Regards, David
=========================================================================
From: darmah@goodnet.com
Subject: Re: Tannoy driver construcion questions
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:35:51 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n564
Hi David:
You wrote:
(snip)
> Does the four section ring hold the surround in or is it secured by the
> paper and glue? Can I safely remove the ring pieces without damaging the
> drivers? As well as being paralyzed with fear that I might damage the
> surround/cone, if the rings do secure the surround then my new pretty one
> piece ring will need to be made stronger. Thanks.
>
> Regards, David
>
The four ring pieces you mention do in fact secure the suround.
You call your driver a Tannoy "GOLD" . I'm not familiar with all the
variations that Tannoy made on the "gold" colored frame series but
can say this:
If it's of the variety that I also own i.e. the type with a foam suround
it would be called an HPD 315 A or if it's after Alnico I think they
were called C.
In any case if your driver does have the foam suround then chances
are HIGH that will damage the suround if you remove the 4
securing ring pieces simply because of the drivers age. It's likely
that the foam will by now be stuck to either the frame or the
securing pieces and may tear.
Sadly I've seen this happen!!!!
Of course if the surround is of the earlier cloth type chanses are
good that it will survive. Again I'm not sure of what all Tannoy used
or when...kind of a Lowther geek myself y'know.
Tannoys were designed to be field servicable and there for with the
exception of the litz wire from the cone to the connector for the x-
over the driver can be completely disassembled by unbolting and
and unscrewing everything. And of course reassembled as well.
Note the 4 bolts on the metal spider ring.....used to center the
voice coil after a fresh cone is installed.
Now understand that this type of driver was designed to mount
FLUSH with 3/4" front baffle. The baffle receives a cut out which is
just a bit larger in diameter than the outside of the drivers frame.
Behind this is mounted a "sub-baffle" of smaller diameter to which
the driver was bolted. Note also that the correct size bolt is sunk
into the frame.
Tannoy were very atimate (how do you spell that anyway?) about
the flush mounting with this series of driver.
Somewhere I still have the cabinet plans for all 3 HPD series
drivers which show this clearly. If needed I can provide these or
redraw them in cadd. Let me know.
Best Regards
Marc S. Wauters
darmah@goodnet.com
My Lowther Enthusiasts Page:
http://www.goodnet.com/~darmah/lowther/lowther.htm
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: Tannoy driver construcion questions
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 20:20:31 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n564
>Snip
>Tannoy were very atimate (how do you spell that anyway?) about
>the flush mounting with this series of driver.
"...adamant"
>Snip
>Best Regards
>
>
>Marc S. Wauters
>darmah@goodnet.com
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: Tannoy driver construcion questions
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 22:35:15
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n564
A 08:20 PM 1/8/99 -0700, PEARL Cust Serv a écrit :
>>Snip
>>Tannoy were very atimate (how do you spell that anyway?) about
>>the flush mounting with this series of driver.
> "...adamant"
>>Snip
>>Best Regards
>>
>>
>>Marc S. Wauters
>>darmah@goodnet.com
>
Adamant?
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: Tannoy enclosures?
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:42:41 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n491
Any Tannoy guys willing to drop me a private line about enclosure plans,
availability, preferences, etc? Appreciate it - Pat (tubesguy@chorus.net)
=========================================================================
From: "Tuck Thean" <tthean@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tannoy HPD 385A info. needed
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 08:06:42 PST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n242
Hi guys, I am about to buy a pair of the Tannoy 15" drivers. The model
is HPD 385A. Is this an alnico driver ? Is this consider the Tannoy Gold
? The seller said it the drivers have been reconed. Is tht going to
affect the sound quality ? What is the fais market value of these
drivers ?
Thanks in advance.
- --Tuck--
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: Tannoy info needed,please!
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:16:58 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n122
Hey folks , I might have a lead on a Tannoy 15" coaxial,(the seller said it
has the crossover mounted inside the cabinet? he thought some had crossover
mounted on top of the cabinet?) .Can someone tell me the approximate worth?
(PS what is the color coding about? TIA Ed
Ed Coleman, Transition Coordinator, Oak Harbor School District, Oak Harbor
Wa. M.Ed. Vocational Special Needs.U.W. Collector of vacuum tube
stuff,loves being on his bike ,supporter of Habitat for Humanity,belives in
ZPG.Residing in the galaxy of Marci,Orbiting 'round the dual suns Evan and
Brendan Ameluxen Coleman.
Slugs crawling up the window,winter in the northwest!
=========================================================================
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: Tannoy info needed,please!
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 16:48:26 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n122
>Hey folks , I might have a lead on a Tannoy 15" coaxial,(the seller said it
>has the crossover mounted inside the cabinet? he thought some had crossover
>mounted on top of the cabinet?) .Can someone tell me the approximate worth?
>(PS what is the color coding about? TIA Ed
>
Tannoy made various models from the 50s till now. Till the 70s they were
described by the colour of the magnet cover which you can't see unless you
open up the box. Then they had the HPD series which had a three digit
number for the various models in the 70s. In the late 70s or early 80s
they had four digit numbers eg. 3838 without any letters.
I have the driver that was current in the late 60s/early 70s, the Monitor
Gold. Mine is the 15" version but there was also a 12" version. Mine has
Monitor Gold written on the dull gold coloured plastic magnet cover. In
Australian dollars (~US$0.70) I have seen asking prices of $350, $500, $700
and $900. I also saw 600 pounds sterling for a pair of 15" Monitor Golds.
In most (perhaps all) cases the crossover is a separate box mounted into
the cabinet so that tweeter level ("energy") and rolloff controls can be
operated by two switches. Earlier models (before mine) had more
rudimentary controls. Later models allowed slightly more response tweaking
via switches. The same driver might be found in different boxes with the
crossover box mounted differently. Tannoy used the same drivers in
different reflex boxes and horn and sometimes sealed boxes, and the raw
drivers were also available for home or studio enclosure construction.
Dr. Peter Campbell (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O. Ph.61-2-62464053 or -62464158 (w)
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601 61-2-62516213 (h)
Australia 61-2-62464173 (fax)
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut <Hartmut.Quaschik@mch.sni.de>
Subject: Tannoy Monitor Gold Crossover
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:58:19 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n240
Folks,
did anybody of you ever made a custom crossover for
the Tannoy Monitor Gold 12 inch, which could be better
than the original one, perhaps something like the
Doug Sax Mastering Lab crossover for Altec duplex,
(for which I have the circuit, BTW) ?
I just purchased such drivers with Onken cabinets
(2 cu. feet), but without crossovers. I tried already simple
first order xover, but had nasty midrange.
I could copy the original xover, which is presented
in the French magazine L'Audiophile No. 28, p.11,
but I rather wanted something simpler. Somebody already
told me about a first order xover, that was considerably
better than the original xover, but I had no contact
so far with the constructor of that good thing.
In case this topic has already been discussed, I
apologize.
Thanks
Hartmut from Munich, on Joelist again
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut <Hartmut.Quaschik@mch.sni.de>
Subject: Re: Tannoy Monitor Gold Crossover
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:11:38 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n241
Folks,
all people on this list who had experiences with Tannoys
warned me so far from going too simple in the xover.
I studied that French L'Audiophile article about Tannoys and
learned that the treble unit has a 2-4kHz peak which should
be eq-ed with a parallel LCR of 1.68mH-6.8uF-and switchable R,
maybe 10/20/30R. Then, as it is a constant directivity horn,
it goes down from 5kHz, which could be eq-ed with a
series combination of 1.5uF and 30R app.
The original xover seems to be very well engineered, as it
is first order only, and contains only elements for EQ-ing
otherwise. But as some folks pointed out, one should improve
the parts quality and bypass the switches, going for
hardwired.
I already tried to get it right, and the LCR does indeed cure
the nastiness in the upper midrange. But it might take another
week or so for me to get it really good.
Thanks for all who have replied,
Hartmut from Munich
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut <Hartmut.Quaschik@mch.sni.de>
Subject: Re: Tannoy Monitor Gold Crossover
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 16:21:37 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n242
Bob Chernofsky <bobc@mci2000.com>, STEVE CORNETT
<SCORNETT@usagroup.com>, Steve Fellini <steve@helix.nih.gov>
asked for more information about the xover and the cabinet.
xover like presented in French L'Audiophile, issue 28, p.11:
freq is 1,000 or 1,200 for Tannoys
bass: 6dB with L = 2.2mH, imp eq with 3.3R and 3*6.8uF
treble 6.8uF into auto-transformer with multiple tappings,
tappings can be switched to driver and also switched for 47R
into ground, independently (?) for adjustment of mid+high
together.
to driver: 10R, then 20 R, then driver,
1.5uF between driver and switchable to either end of
the 10R resistor, nothing, or ground for treble only adjustment,
and I assume this what is called "roll off" on the xover panel.
RCL in parallel to driver, L = 1.68mH, C = 6.8uF, R = switchable
20/30/50/direct to ground, for midrange only adjustment.
I do not know whether one could get lower with xover freq,
because the tweeter is falling down very steeply from his
105dB 2-4kHz peak down to lower freq, app. 10dB each octave.
At the other side it is going down with 5dB each octave from
5kHz, as it is a constant directivity horn.
Cabinet: 2 cu.ft. Onken style, but tight ports.
The last owner made it.
Efficiency: a bit more than 90dB, maybe 92dB, and I
am currently driving it with solid state, will test with
my single-ended tubes later. The original owner had
AD1 (German ancient single plate 2A3 alike) single-ended
for driving them. They sounded good at his place.
Bass: Extremely good pronounced and clear, vg. body and timing,
indeed I never heard a better speaker in this freq.range,
regardless whether JBL or Altec whatever vintage and size.
As soon as I have finished my xover from scratch, I will inform
you. I am building the treble xover with 22uF and 6.8R to ground
instead of the auto-transformer. Then series resistor and so on ...
best wishes,
Hartmut from Munich
.. from Dr. Peter Campbell (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
( from Alex Garner of Tannoy )
>12" Golds work in two cabinet sizes. 75 litres for a 'compact' down
>to about 48Hz and 150 litres for best results down to 35Hz. Ports for
>150 litres would be 2 x 100mm diameter and about 200mm long.
>75litres needs 2 x 50mm about 100mm long. For best results the port
>length needs to be tuned by measuring the impedance in the 20Hz to
>100Hz area using a sinewave oscillator and an analogiue multimeter,
>tuning for the dip between 2 peaks to coincidewith 48Hz and 35 Hz
>respectively.
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut <Hartmut.Quaschik@mch.sni.de>
Subject: Tannoy Monitor Gold Crossover
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:00:56 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n312
Folks,
when I asked for help in the Joe-List in April, a lot of guys
showed interest in what I will do with my Tannoy, xover-wise.
Now, this is my autotransformerless xover for 12 inch
Tannoy Little Red Monitor (gold basket, ferrite magnet, 92dB)
(+)-- 0.82mH -------------- Bass (+)
|
22uF
|
(-)------------------------ Bass (-)
(+)----- 10uF-------------------1uF----------------- Treble (+)
| | |--33R--| |
| | 1.4mH
| | |
| | 6.8uF
10R 1.5mH |
| | 4R7
| | |
(-)------------------------------------------------ Treble (-)
One does not need the autotransformer any more, indeed the
treble is loud enough, one could even make a further
attenuation of say 1dB.
10uF and 1.5mH are calculated for the load of 10R. Note that
in the original design, 6.8uF and 3mH (the autotransformer's
inductance) are for a 22R load.
10R also equalizes the impedance.
best regards,
Hartmut from Munich
=========================================================================
From: "Cameron Brook" <cambrook@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Tannoy Monitor Gold Crossover
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:22:16 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n313
Hi Hartmunt and all other Joes,
I'm sorry I missed the beginning of this, but I thought I'd share what I
ended up doing with a pair of NOS 12" Tannoy Reds (LSU-12, ~1963) I aquired.
They came in original packing - in fact one plastic bag inside the carton
hadn't even been opened - but with only one original X-over. I decided that
it wasn't going to be possible to find another original x-over, so I decided
to open the potted can and measure it.
The original x-over for these ran the bass full range (!) and had this HP
network, (15 ohm drivers)
(+)------10.45uF----o-----3.6uF------o--------(+) Treble
| |
| |
o---15r(6W)------o
|
0.26mH
|
|
5r(5W)
|
|
(-)-----------------o-------------------------(-) Treble
I built the Canterbury enclosures from a copy of the Tannoy booklet they
kindly supplied.
I only had to listen to that setup for a very short time to find out why
Tannoy soon adopted a low-pass filter for the bass!
I also got a schematic of the "Monitor Gold" x-over, (the LSU/HF/15/8 and
LSU/HF/12/8) the one with the adjustable "presence" control. I wasn't keen
on remaking this for 15 ohm drivers and I wanted air cored inductors anyway,
so I measured the switchable inductor in the flat position and scaled the
values for 15 ohms. I decided to leave the H.F. lift section in as it isn't
complicated, but I wouldn't bother if I was doing it again.
I tried it with a few S.S. amplifiers and was disappointed, but the sound
with a pair of Quad 11's is *very* good!
Cheers, Cameron
|Folks,
|
|when I asked for help in the Joe-List in April, a lot of guys
|showed interest in what I will do with my Tannoy, xover-wise.
|
|Now, this is my autotransformerless xover for 12 inch
|Tannoy Little Red Monitor (gold basket, ferrite magnet, 92dB)
|
|(+)-- 0.82mH -------------- Bass (+)
| |
| 22uF
| |
|(-)------------------------ Bass (-)
|
|
|(+)----- 10uF-------------------1uF----------------- Treble (+)
| | | |--33R--| |
| | | 1.4mH
| | | |
| | | 6.8uF
| 10R 1.5mH |
| | | 4R7
| | | |
|(-)------------------------------------------------ Treble (-)
|
|One does not need the autotransformer any more, indeed the
|treble is loud enough, one could even make a further
|attenuation of say 1dB.
|10uF and 1.5mH are calculated for the load of 10R. Note that
|in the original design, 6.8uF and 3mH (the autotransformer's
|inductance) are for a 22R load.
|10R also equalizes the impedance.
|
|best regards,
|Hartmut from Munich
|
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: RE: Tannoy Monitor Golds
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:54:18 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n584
Hello Dan. The interesting question to me is what after 30 years of
happiness happened? What did you hear that you like better?
Regards, David
- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel J. Marshall [mailto:danmarshall@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 12:29 PM
To: Joelist
Subject: FA: Tannoy Monitor Golds
Hi All,
Well, I finally decided to sell the Tannoys. If interested, here is the
ebay address where they are listed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=58017175
I intend to sell a bunch of other stuff as soon as I get around to
attending to it. I just got too much stuff and have decided to
concentrate on one good system rather than a half dozen incomplete ones
and perhaps a home theater system a bit later when I get rid of some of
the current inventory. Hmmm, why didn't I think of that before?
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Tannoy monitors
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:37:20 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n248
Hi,
Has anyone listened to or tried the contemporary Tannoy studio monitors?
The new 12" adn 15" models have really quite good efficiency and seem
relatively reasonably priced -- their equivalent HiFi speakers are far far
more expensive.
Regards,
Mark
=========================================================================
From: Sylvain Giguère <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: Tannoy Monitors
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:27:38 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n248
Mark Donen was asking about anybody here having experience with
"contemporary" Tannoys...
Let's say that since my budget is modest, I use a pair of Tannoys (12")
from the mid 70's. The driver model is known as HPD-315, and is often
found in the cabinet models of the 1260 serie.
All in all, I have found them to be "one" of the best "compromises" I
have had in my system. Easy on the ear, efficient enough to go loud
enough for jazz with a 2A3-SE but best matched to a 300B, VV30s and so
on.
With Bastien Bouchard, we tried last year a very expensive version of
their 12" aimed at commercial use for huge crowds, and we were impressed
by them even in a small room.
I had Lowthers here, as you may know, and as quick and nice they may be
with some materials, they always made me feel like being agressed by
them, whatever the model, so, choose with your ears, that's only way to
go. Find a friend who has a pair..
My final word is that whatever what I'll try in the future, the Tannoys
are here to stay.
Sylvain Giguère
=========================================================================
From: Andre Jute <andre@indigo.ie>
Subject: Taps revisited
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:22:37 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n149
Gentlemen
Some of you may remember my guest editorial in Glass Audio last year, which
used taps on transformers as an example and created a lot of outrage among
the usual functionally illiterate fulminators because they thought I was
advocating taps. The editorial is reprinted by courtesy of Glass Audio at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/Audiobookreviews1.html#Why do load
impedance and
The most informative (and often amusing) reply was from the transformer
designer Menno van der Veen, and I have now obtained permission to reprint
it at:
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/Audiobookreviews1.html#Mennosresponse
where he explains precisely why taps on the primary degrade the quality of
sound.
My own reply to him, with a small summary note, is at:
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/Audiobookreviews1.html#ReplytoMenno
Enjoy!
Andre
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
COMMUNICATION JUTE
- --we support pages for music lovers, writers and audiophiles at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: TAS Back Issues Disaster
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:48:30 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n181
I just learned that there was a warehouse fire in a New Jersey shopping center
last week that destroyed most of The Absolute Sound's stock of back issues.
(Even HP is missing a few copies - 104 and 108, as well as a few much older
ones.)
He had asked a friendly mailing house, located in that center, to handle back
issue orders until he could get TAS back up on a solid financial footing. He
does not yet know whether the owner's insurance covered his magazines.
Sadly,
Anna
=========================================================================
From: Eric Weitzman <eweitzman@acm.org>
Subject: tasteful reflections on Jazz at the Pawnshop
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:39:20 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n321
I bought a used copy of this highly-regarded recording as
I was trawling the bins at a local CD shop. "Great," I thought,
"the venerable recording for only 9 bucks! Some rich fellow
must have sold it off when he upgraded to AB test the new
HDCD and XRCD releases for a C note."
What a disappointment. Lots of fast, hot licks, sure, but
monotonously fast and hot. Sounded not bad, but didn't come
close to one of my favorites (Bill Evans Trio, "Sunday at the
Village Vanguard" and "Waltz for Debby"-- same venue) for
a live acoustic set.
Luckily for me, the store buys back their used stuff for 80%
of the price within 7 days if you don't like it. I took them up
on it. I'm sure the original owner didn't do as well on *his*
upgrade...
- - Eric
Eric Weitzman (eweitzman@acm.org)
1403 Mallard Way
Sunnyvale, CA 94087
(408) 749-8393
- -----Original Message-----
From: HERBERT E REICHERT
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 1998 5:00 PM
To: mlong@robby.caltech.edu; sound@io.com
Subject: reflections on HiFi98 (long)
I would not have written the other note if I had read this stupidity.
Jazz at the pawnshop...please. I am ready to get out of Audio if
this is the kind of shit dosen't stop. Siegfried cello (natural?)
bring me your Janis, your AC/DC, your Solti, your Hank, your Sex
Pistols but save me your "cello" and your bad breath.
HR
=========================================================================
From: Rimmer de Vries <rdevries@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: tasteful reflections on Jazz at the Pawnshop
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:58:59 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n321
Eric Weitzman wrote:
>
> I bought a used copy of this highly-regarded recording as
> I was trawling the bins at a local CD shop. "Great," I thought,
> "the venerable recording for only 9 bucks! Some rich fellow
> must have sold it off when he upgraded to AB test the new
> HDCD and XRCD releases for a C note."
>
> What a disappointment. Lots of fast, hot licks, sure, but
> monotonously fast and hot. Sounded not bad, but didn't come
> close to one of my favorites (Bill Evans Trio, "Sunday at the
> Village Vanguard" and "Waltz for Debby"-- same venue) for
> a live acoustic set.
>
I agree this disk is not at the level of the Bill Evans Trio recordings.
The mood of that session is priceless.
It seems most recordings of old standards are not up to the quality of
the original artists.
Have you heard "Waltz for Debbie" on the Acoustic Sounds 180 gram LP
presing? I think it is a significant improvement over the late
Riverside and OJC pressings
Rimmer
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Tax time fire sale
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:07:52 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n251
Aw cripes.
I went and made enough money last year to move up from Shit Poor to Working
Poor, and when I filled out my 1040, line 64 worked out to BEND OVER, BUD.
This is the time of year when the self employed all say in unison - "What
was I thinkin'?!"
And so I am in a bind, needing some bucks by April 15.
I have a pair of mint stock VAL MP-211A monoblocks and matching VAL MP-L1S
MkII line preamp for sale, all with original packing, and the new manuals,
written by me. I received these and three other products from MCM, as
payment for production of assembly and owners manuals for the products.
The amps are 25 wpc, for real, supposedly based on the Ongaku circuit
layout, fixed bias with 6SL7 input and 6SN7 CF driver. Very nice looking,
heavy aluminum front plate, brushed stainless chassis, very nice RCAs and
binding posts (4,8,16 ohms), classic 211 sound, Cerafines and a nice choke
in the PS filter, nice potted OT.
The matching line preamp looks great too, like a $1500 unit, cool curving
machined aluminum face plate. 12AT7s inside, supposedly a circuit similar to
the Marantz 7. Alps Blue volume control, mute switch, separate regulated DC
to each heater, CLC B+, very quiet, solid feel to the controls.
List is $1700 for the 211 monoblocks, and $369 for the preamp.
The stuff has all of 40 hours on it, and sounds amazingly good for the
money. It's also beautiful.
I'll take a firm offer of $950 plus shipping for the whole thing, but I need
to close the deal and see the money by April 15.
I can handle credit card sales and this will be the best way to speed the
process.
Doc B.
VALVE
coming soon - www.bottlehead.com
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Tax time fire sale
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:20:22 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n252
Hi folks,
As usual, you guys made me wish I had four or five of what I was selling.
The 211 amps and preamp sold in about 15 minutes.
Thanks to everyone who made inquiry,
Doc B.
VALVE
coming soon - www.bottlehead.com
=========================================================================
From: Mattijs de Vries <mdevries@avvt.com>
Subject: Taylor 45C tube tester help needed
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:46:59 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n359
Hello,
I'm in the oppertunity to buy a Taylor 45C tube tester. Are there people
out here who know this tester, is it a good one? Also mine comes without
manual, I think I will need it for proper operation. Does anybody have it
and is willing to make a copy of it, all expenses will be payed of
course.... Hope anybody out there can help me, hope to hear form you,
_______
| _____ | MachMat, Mattijs de Vries
/ | | \ Top-Fi audio equipment, Tube sales
| | ||| | | Distributor AVVT Benelux
| | ||| | | ------------------------------------------------
| | ||| | | E-mail : MdeVries@AVVT.COM (Private)
| | ||| | | MachMat@AVVT.COM (Business)
| |_____| | URL : HTTP://WWW.AVVT.COM/machmat/
\ ||| / Adress : Campuslaan 41-214, 7522 NG, Enschede
|/_|_\| Country : The Netherlands, Europe
| | Phone : 0031-53-4895091, Fax : 0031-53-4357234
|_____| ------------------------------------------------
|| || Designing is the art of making compromises.
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: T-barring 6SL7
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 10:11:52 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n271
Hi Joes,
I have an application requiring high gain - around 45 - and around 20K
Zout. I plan to use a 6SL7 with both sections paralleled.
A bench test reveals everything checks out. But does t-barring (often
used in the music industry) have any disadvantages? Any loss of
detail/bandwidth?
What plate voltage and current should I run this tube at for best sound?
Thanks in advance,
Cheers,
Hugh
-== Hugh R. Dean ==-
aspen@alphalink.com.au
Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: T-barring 6SL7
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:47:12 +1000 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n271
>I plan to use a 6SL7 with both sections paralleled.
>.....Does t-barring (often
>used in the music industry) have any disadvantages? Any loss of
>detail/bandwidth?
The Miller capacitance will be doubled which may limit the high frequencies
depending on what preceeds it. I would provide separate cathode resistors
to encourage DC current sharing even if they are both bypassed by a cap for
AC.
Dr. Peter Campbell (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O. Ph.61-2-62464053 or -62464158 (w)
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601 61-2-62516213 (h)
Australia 61-2-62464173 (fax)
=========================================================================
From: "Riesz, Ted - PETFISH" <Ted.Riesz@mailhost.dpie.gov.au>
Subject: TD124
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:58:58 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n402
Yves Le Gal > Some, who have listened to a J.C. Verdier rebuilt
124 (a complete feature
> was published in l'Audiophile eons ago), believe that this version is
> as
> good - in a different way - as the 301. As I've not listened to it, I
> can't be more specific.
>
>
I have a TD124 II which I use with a Rega RB300 arm. I would
be very interested in knowing more about the JC Verdier rebuild.
Could anyone on the list enlighten us. In particular, what are
the pros and cons of removing the top platter?
Regards
Ted Riesz
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: TD124
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:22:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n404
>>
> I have a TD124 II which I use with a Rega RB300 arm. I would
>be very interested in knowing more about the JC Verdier rebuild.
>
> Could anyone on the list enlighten us. In particular, what are
>the pros and cons of removing the top platter?
>
> Regards
>
> Ted Riesz
>
About 10 years ago I had a TD124 that I used for about 4 years. I was never
able to completely eliminate rumble from it. I heard a side-by-side
comparison with a very early Merrill moded AR TT and the AR was better in
every way. I then got an old Linn that wasn't in very good shape, and it
was also better than the TD124. Then I got a mat that a fellow in
Minneapolis custom made (the same guy that made the Analog Survival Kit,
who now works for Audio Research), and picked up an old Empire at a yard
sale for $5. With the mat in place, the Empire was the equal of the Linn in
every area, and much better in bass. I would have liked to have tried the
mat on the 124, but I had sold it by that point. From memory, the Empire
w\out mat sounded more transparent than the 124. Now my front end is the
Empire motor, platter, and bearing on a base that I threw together
consisting of a sandwich of Celotex foil sided foam insulation, tar paper,
and masonite, Souther arm, and Clearaudio Cartridge. I keep thinking of
things that I might try to improve it, but it sounds so good that it never
seems worth the trouble.
While I had the 124, I got rid of the rubber mounts and set it on springs
(very basic, I stuck springs in the holes in the base that the rubber
mounts had been in, stuck a nut in the bottom of each spring, and set the
bolt that had gone through the Rubber mount on top of the nut.) This helped
isolation in the bass noticeably. I never tried it without the upper
platter, and now I wish that I had, because I think that that might be the
cause of a lot of the congestion that I heard.
JDM
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: TD124
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:12:50 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n405
On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
> and picked up an old Empire at a yard
> sale for $5. With the mat in place, the Empire was the equal of the Linn in
> every area, and much better in bass. I would have liked to have tried the
> mat on the 124, but I had sold it by that point. From memory, the Empire
> w\out mat sounded more transparent than the 124. Now my front end is the
> Empire motor, platter, and bearing on a base that I threw together
> consisting of a sandwich of Celotex foil sided foam insulation, tar paper,
> and masonite, Souther arm, and Clearaudio Cartridge. I keep thinking of
> things that I might try to improve it, but it sounds so good that it never
> seems worth the trouble.
Hah. Which model was it? I successfully moded the Empire
208 to a plinth sandwich of lucite, lead and aluminum. Now
it's in the hands of another user.
Still have another Empire 208 but I removed the motor for
re-employment with my air-suspended SOTA platter/bearing and
quadrature PS. No one should pass up a junk-yard Empire:
great parts!
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: TD124
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:56:47 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n405
At 03:12 PM 8/27/98 -0400, Kalman Rubinson wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
>Hah. Which model was it? I successfully moded the Empire
>208 to a plinth sandwich of lucite, lead and aluminum. Now
>it's in the hands of another user.
>
>Still have another Empire 208 but I removed the motor for
>re-employment with my air-suspended SOTA platter/bearing and
>quadrature PS. No one should pass up a junk-yard Empire:
>great parts!
>
>Kal
I think it's a 208 (since I don't have the base anymore I don't know for
sure)- it's the one that was on a big rectangular aluminum base, not the
suspended one that came later.
I'm curious about the quadrature PS that you referred to- I have run mine
with a lab type PS (a Holt Voltage Calibrator to be exact) and it sounded
even better, but then the PS blew up, I haven't been able to fix it, and so
now I'm back at the mercy of ConEd. JDM
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: TD124
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:09:51 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n405
On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
> I think it's a 208 (since I don't have the base anymore I don't know for
> sure)- it's the one that was on a big rectangular aluminum base, not the
> suspended one that came later.
That's the one!
> I'm curious about the quadrature PS that you referred to- I have run mine
> with a lab type PS (a Holt Voltage Calibrator to be exact) and it sounded
> even better, but then the PS blew up, I haven't been able to fix it, and so
> now I'm back at the mercy of ConEd.
Well, it's based on a Burr-Brown 4423 quadrature oscillator
(0.002Hz-20KHz) module which, although discontinued in 1994,
is still available from various sources. With a pair of
matched caps (thanks to Dick Marsh) and a home-made dual
10-turn pot, I can get very low distortion (<0.05%), very
stable (+/-50ppm) sine/cosine (phase error +/-0.1deg) o/p
at 60Hz +/-5%. This is fed to a pair of 25W amps whose o/p
runs either a 24V motor or, via a pair of backward line
transformers, the 110V Papst (Empire) motor.
Now working on installing a digital(!) readout of the
turntable speed (not the oscillator frequency) to avoid a
strobe disc and/or servo control.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut Quaschik <Hartmut.Quaschik@munich.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: TD124 info request
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 19:33:13 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n554
Anthony Knettel schrieb:
> Happy New Year to everyone on the list -- just 730 shopping
> days left 'til the next millenium. And thanks to everyone who
> responded to my recent ISO tonearm parts post. To follow up,
> I'd like to ask the following regarding my new (to me) TD124:
> (1) Have any articles been published about restoring these
> 'tables that I should read?
Anthony,In L'Audiophile/France there was a heavy modification article
aboutthe 124, putting the motor on a standalone base and getting rid of
the secondary platter. Folks in Germany who tried say it works.
> (2) What should I be using to lubricate the bearing?
Normally it runs with oil. Let's see what the manual says for
theoriginal 124 (written in German and French, as the 124 MK 1
is Swiss made):
first version: bearing made from nylon, looking black and glossy, use
siclicon-oil Rhodosil X58 (Rhone-Poulenc) or General Electric
Silicone Fluid F50.
second version: bearing made from bronze, use Caltex or
Texaco Regal Oil B (R.&O.)
but you should try perhaps grease, like in the Garrard's bearings.
> (3) I've seen ads in UK magazines for power supplies, glass
> platters, "improved" replacement drive wheels, etc.:
they want your money ;-)
> (a) Do any Joelisters have experience with one or more of
> these products?
> (b) Are there any suppliers in the US?
> (c) Are they worth the trouble and expense to ship them
> overseas?
> (4) Any other tricks, tips or tweaks I should know about?
> (I saved the recent plinth thread so no need to repeat it.)
> Thanks in advance -- Anthony
I always preferred the Garrards to the 124 ...
For me the 124 has always been too lightweight.
But there are enough folks on both joelist and analogue
addicts lists who like and prefer the 124.
Be careful, the 124 is not easy to maintain. I had problems
holding the speed constant. Spare parts are still available
from Thorens.
regards,
Hartmut from Munich (mind the new email-address)
=========================================================================
From: Anthony Knettel <AKnettel@compuserve.com>
Subject: TD124 info request
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:01:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n554
Happy New Year to everyone on the list -- just 730 shopping
days left 'til the next millenium. And thanks to everyone who
responded to my recent ISO tonearm parts post. To follow up,
I'd like to ask the following regarding my new (to me) TD124:
(1) Have any articles been published about restoring these
'tables that I should read?
(2) What should I be using to lubricate the bearing?
(3) I've seen ads in UK magazines for power supplies, glass
platters, "improved" replacement drive wheels, etc.:
(a) Do any Joelisters have experience with one or more of
these products?
(b) Are there any suppliers in the US?
(c) Are they worth the trouble and expense to ship them
overseas?
(4) Any other tricks, tips or tweaks I should know about?
(I saved the recent plinth thread so no need to repeat it.)
Thanks in advance -- Anthony
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: TEAC VRDS7
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:46:33 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n314
Does anyone have any experience with this cd player? Any technical
info? Any subjective impressions?
TIA and regards,
Ken Dangerfield
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: TEAC VRDS7
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:54:14 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n315
At 09:46 18-6-98 -0800, Ken Dangerfield wrote:
>Does anyone have any experience with this cd player? Any technical
>info? Any subjective impressions?
I have good experiences with both VRDS 10 and 9
The 7 is let me say a poor mans version, I do not know this unit in detail
I took the VRDS 10 myself just because of the mechanics, the electronics
are not bad, but my outboard DAC is better
Guido
>TIA and regards,
>Ken Dangerfield
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Manno Toshikazu <manno@rdd.kenwood.co.jp>
Subject: Re: TEAC VRDS7
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:49:42 +0900 (JST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n316
Hi,
> Does anyone have any experience with this cd player? Any technical
> info? Any subjective impressions?
>
> TIA and regards,
> Ken Dangerfield
I have 2 VRDS CD-Transports.(P-2s & P-10(s))
I've compared many kind of CDTs, and I choose VRDS Mechanism,
Much Better than Phillips Mecha. or belt mecha.s etc...
If you choose VRDS-7, it's better choice. But I don't trust
Teac's DAC part. I recommend P-700 (Half size CDT with VRDS) and your
favorite DAC. (If you can get) I experienced that half size CDT
is better than full size CDT.
Best Regards
Manno Toshikazu ---Audio, The Final Frontier---
manno@rdd.kenwood.co.jp
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Tech Info needed: Spk's Bandpass Enclosures
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 09:24:28 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n195
Gang,
Any one have any technical info on Bandpass Enclosures? Prefer single
driver, but I guess two drivers would be acceptable.
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: Re: Tech Info needed: Spk's Bandpass Enclosures
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:29:13 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n196
At 09:24 18/02/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Gang,
>
>Any one have any technical info on Bandpass Enclosures? Prefer single
>driver, but I guess two drivers would be acceptable.
>
>Gordon
>
>
>=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
>mailto:waudio@cinti.net
>http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
>ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
>
>
Gordon,
There is an awful lot of good info going on on the bass list (as well as
quite a bit of noise, like mosts lists i suppose).
One specific resource you might find interesting is Brian Steele's page:
http://www.spiceisle.com/audiodiy/
He has quite a bit on band-pass enclosures.
Greetings from Brussels
Robert
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <sp@eden.com>
Subject: Technician in Hong Kong??
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 00:18:12 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n163
Can anybody out there recommend a good professional tube amp technician
in Hong Kong?
Appreciate any recommendations.
Joe
sp@eden.com
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <Tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: Teflon cap sources (finale)
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:03:36 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n294
Eric Weitzman wrote:
>
snip >
>
> Incidently, my copy of "Reference Data for Radio
> Engineering", 4th edition, has a table of properties of
> "Commercial Insulating Materials". At audio frequencies
> (10^3 hz) it lists the dissipation factors of (polyethylene,
> polystyrene, teflon) as (<0.0002, <0.00005, <0.0003) It
> doesn't list polypropylene -- must have been invented after
> 1956! It also doesn't list the dielectric absorption either.
> Temperature-wise, the values for softening points (C) are
> (95-105(distortion), 82 (distortion), 66(distortion, stable
> to 300). Unless teflon's properties have improved, or it's
> DA is great, I don't see why it would have any advantages
> over the other two materials anyways.
>
> - Eric
Hi all
The real strong point of Teflon is that it has the lowest dielectric
constant (except for air, vaccuum, pyrex etc) so one can fabricate low
capacitance cables with it. Also, lets not forget it withstands
soldering temps.
Best Regards,
Tom Danley
ITC
=========================================================================
From: Eric Weitzman <eweitzman@acm.org>
Subject: Teflon cap sources (finale)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:31:42 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n294
Since I posted my request for leads on a source for teflon
caps, I've telephoned every electronics supply place in the
South SF Bay area and other places I've been refered to.
I've tried several wholesalers, and the buyers at Digikey
and Mouser.
The only commercial source that I have located other than
Reliable Capacitor (makers of the Exotica Teflon and Foil
caps as well as the MultiCaps) is a company called CRC Film
in Santa Monica. (thanks, Ganti)
They make milspec stuff, including a line of teflon film
caps. Minimum quantity of 20 per line item. As an example,
a 0.1/200v 10% cap costs about $15. They make them down to
0.1%, and in the usual values. I don't think they go higher
than 200v, though.
This price is comparable to the Exotica (which can be had
from Michael Percy for about $18, and I think fromSonic
Frontiers/Parts Connection). So if 5 of us were inclined to
spend $60 to upgrade the coupling caps in our PAS phono
sections, we could do it. I'm not particularly interested --
I'd rather spend the money on other things.
The salesperson at CRC told me that the price of teflon
skyrocketed about 5 years ago and most manufacturers
stopped making them then.
Incidently, my copy of "Reference Data for Radio
Engineering", 4th edition, has a table of properties of
"Commercial Insulating Materials". At audio frequencies
(10^3 hz) it lists the dissipation factors of (polyethylene,
polystyrene, teflon) as (<0.0002, <0.00005, <0.0003) It
doesn't list polypropylene -- must have been invented after
1956! It also doesn't list the dielectric absorption either.
Temperature-wise, the values for softening points (C) are
(95-105(distortion), 82 (distortion), 66(distortion, stable
to 300). Unless teflon's properties have improved, or it's
DA is great, I don't see why it would have any advantages
over the other two materials anyways.
- - Eric
Eric Weitzman (eweitzman@acm.org)
practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless
(thanks, dave)
PS - Ian McPhail also posted this source of custom caps:
> Lucas Cant (Black Art Audio) will custom roll teflon for you.
> low production numbers only, they're handmade.
> lucas@axis.jeack.com.au
> http://axis.jeack.com.au/~lucas/index.html
> +61 3 9527 4982
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Teflon cap sources (finale)
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:06:41 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n295
Thomas Danley wrote:
> Eric Weitzman wrote:
> ....... It
> > doesn't list polypropylene -- must have been invented after
> > 1956!
Am I wrong or was the first widespread use of polypropylene called
"Tupperware"?
S.G.
=========================================================================
From: "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
Subject: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:44:51 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n502
Hey grid lockers
Somehow I got the notion of wiring up my PP300b amp with #18 solid
copper magnet wire insulated with teflon tubing I keep around...
Anyone ever try it?
Any ideas on the sonic fx?
Any rags, any bones, any bottles today?
blackie
blackie@tubesville.com
www.tubesville.com
=========================================================================
From: Peter Clark <phclark@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:07:46 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n502
David Barnett wrote:
>
> On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:44:51 +0000, "blackie"
> <blackie@mail.infohouse.com> wrote:
>
> >Somehow I got the notion of wiring up my PP300b amp with #18 solid
> >copper magnet wire insulated with teflon tubing I keep around...
>
> Isn't magnet wire already coated with an insulator?
IMVHO, this is not the path to happiness. My anecdotal experience with
magnet wire is that the enamel sounds terrible. My larger experience
with telfon is that it doesn't sound very good either. Two lousy
sounding insulators on one wire will take forever to break in, and even
then you might not be able to tell if it actually has broken in, or like
it. One man's opinion.
Regards,
Peter Clark
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:47:55 -0700 (MST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n502
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Peter Clark wrote:
> > >Somehow I got the notion of wiring up my PP300b amp with #18 solid
> > >copper magnet wire insulated with teflon tubing I keep around...
> >
> > Isn't magnet wire already coated with an insulator?
>
> IMVHO, this is not the path to happiness. My anecdotal experience with
> magnet wire is that the enamel sounds terrible. My larger experience
> with telfon is that it doesn't sound very good either. Two lousy
> sounding insulators on one wire will take forever to break in, and even
> then you might not be able to tell if it actually has broken in, or like
> it. One man's opinion.
I'm a little dense, so you need to bear with me. If enameled magnet wire
can sound o.k. when coiled in voice coils or chokes, why does it suddenly
sound bad when it is straight or point-to-point?
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:44:11 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n502
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:44:51 +0000, "blackie"
<blackie@mail.infohouse.com> wrote:
>Somehow I got the notion of wiring up my PP300b amp with #18 solid
>copper magnet wire insulated with teflon tubing I keep around...
Isn't magnet wire already coated with an insulator?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: <ccrayc@ust.hk>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:55:59 +0800 (HKT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n502
Peter and fellow joes,
> IMVHO, this is not the path to happiness. My anecdotal experience with
> magnet wire is that the enamel sounds terrible. My larger experience
> with telfon is that it doesn't sound very good either. Two lousy
> sounding insulators on one wire will take forever to break in, and even
> then you might not be able to tell if it actually has broken in, or like
> it. One man's opinion.
I for one would be interested to know what sounds betters to you, would
you mind elaborate a little bit more ?
This is kinda scary to me, cus I have lots of enameled magnet wire inside
my sound repro. system: input tranny , output tranny, power tranny,
choke, my Fostex speaker...
> Regards,
>
> Peter Clark
>
Best rgds
Raymond
=========================================================================
From: Peter Clark <phclark@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:41:09 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
ccrayc@ust.hk wrote:
>
> Peter and fellow joes,
>
> > IMVHO, this is not the path to happiness. My anecdotal experience with
> > magnet wire is that the enamel sounds terrible. My larger experience
> > with teflon is that it doesn't sound very good either. Two lousy
> > sounding insulators on one wire will take forever to break in, and even
> > then you might not be able to tell if it actually has broken in, or like
> > it. One man's opinion.
>
> I for one would be interested to know what sounds betters to you, would
> you mind elaborate a little bit more ?
>
> This is kinda scary to me, cus I have lots of enameled magnet wire inside
> my sound repro. system: input tranny , output tranny, power tranny,
> choke, my Fostex speaker...
>
> Best rgds
> Raymond
Some places you can't get away from enameled wire, obviously. Home
brewing has its practical and cost limitations. I have taken to winding
my own crossover inductors with teflon jacketed solid silver, though.
The results are worth it.
Regards,
Peter Clark
=========================================================================
From: "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:09:12 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
> From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
> To: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:44:11 GMT
> Isn't magnet wire already coated with an insulator?
Yes indeed it is, but teflon has a good dielectric constant...enamel
I am not sure about.
I have piles of stranded silver plated copper teflon insulated wire
(hamfest score), just got a wild hair...
blackie
blackie@tubesville.com
www.tubesville.com
=========================================================================
From: Tim Reese <tgrmail@nmr.MGH.harvard.EDU>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:13:39 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
>> > >Somehow I got the notion of wiring up my PP300b amp with #18 solid
>> > >copper magnet wire insulated with teflon tubing I keep around...
>> >
>> > Isn't magnet wire already coated with an insulator?
>>
>> IMVHO, this is not the path to happiness. My anecdotal experience with
>> magnet wire is that the enamel sounds terrible. My larger experience
>> with telfon is that it doesn't sound very good either. Two lousy
>> sounding insulators on one wire will take forever to break in, and even
>> then you might not be able to tell if it actually has broken in, or like
>> it. One man's opinion.
>
>I'm a little dense, so you need to bear with me. If enameled magnet wire
>can sound o.k. when coiled in voice coils or chokes, why does it suddenly
>sound bad when it is straight or point-to-point?
I took Blackie's original post to mean bus (buss?) wire, not enameled. I
use teflon tubing from Small Parts Inc. over plain copper that I get from
Fisher Scientific in small spools. Sorry - haven't experimented with wire
type so I can't comment. Current plan is to continue to use this for power
and big signal wire, and use the Belden signal wire from Handmade for
small signal, at least until I finish a few things in the queue. hth tr
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Reese, MGH NMR Center reese@nmr.MGH.harvard.edu
=========================================================================
From: "Lance Dow" <elldee@ldow.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:43:49 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
Peter Clark wrote;
>IMVHO, this is not the path to happiness. My anecdotal experience with
>magnet wire is that the enamel sounds terrible. My larger experience
>with telfon is that it doesn't sound very good either. Two lousy
>sounding insulators on one wire will take forever to break in, and even
>then you might not be able to tell if it actually has broken in, or like
>it. One man's opinion.
Sure enough. But your experience is the exact opposite of mine, and the
members of my audio club.
About 18 months ago we ran comparisons of different DIY cable topologies, to
try and understand the relative importance of materials and construction.
One of the cables we tried was made with teflon insulated magnet wire,
wrapped around a teflon tube XLO-style. We thought this was excellent, very
close to single strand silver built the same way, and not too far away from
the real XLO (at much lower cost).
I'm surprised you think teflon a lousy sounding insulator. We feel it sounds
good even on mains cables.
Regards,
Lance
elldee@ldow.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:28:56 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:09:12 +0000, "blackie"
<blackie@mail.infohouse.com> wrote:
>> Isn't magnet wire already coated with an insulator?
>
>Yes indeed it is, but teflon has a good dielectric constant...enamel
>I am not sure about.
So were you planning on removing the enamel before slipping the magnet
wire into the teflon sleeve?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:58:54 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n504
> From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:28:56 GMT
> On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:09:12 +0000, "blackie"
> <blackie@mail.infohouse.com> wrote:
>
> >> Isn't magnet wire already coated with an insulator?
> >
> >Yes indeed it is, but teflon has a good dielectric constant...enamel
> >I am not sure about.
>
> So were you planning on removing the enamel before slipping the magnet
> wire into the teflon sleeve?
Well, no that wasn't the plan...the way I understand it, the
insulation basically interacts mostly with the chassis (ground) and
fields outside the wire - not the wire itself...in other words, the
enamel would be the major dielectric if there were no teflon, but
with teflon between it and ground plane, etc...the tef's the thing...
anyway I snooped around and got some solid fine silver in 22 gauge
cheap, so I'm gonna use that...
blackie
blackie@tubesville.com
www.tubesville.com
=========================================================================
From: rlahlum@juno.com (Ross J Lahlum)
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:50:31 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n506
Solid copper wire is good, but the gauge may be too big. Try 28 - 30 ga.
If it's magnet wire, it should already have enamel insulation on it.
Teflon is great, but you probably don't need it over magnet wire.
If you can find teflon-insulated solid copper wire, it would be great
stuff to use,
but usually it's silver-plated copper, which is rather bright-sounding.
Have fun,
Ross Lahlum
rlahlum@juno.com
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:44:51 +0000 "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
writes:
>Hey grid lockers
>
>Somehow I got the notion of wiring up my PP300b amp with #18 solid
>copper magnet wire insulated with teflon tubing I keep around...
>
>Anyone ever try it?
>
>Any ideas on the sonic fx?
>
>Any rags, any bones, any bottles today?
>
>blackie
>blackie@tubesville.com
>www.tubesville.com
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:03:09 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n506
Ross J Lahlum wrote:
> Solid copper wire is good, but the gauge may be too big. Try 28 - 30 ga.
>
> If it's magnet wire, it should already have enamel insulation on it.
> Teflon is great, but you probably don't need it over magnet wire.
> If you can find teflon-insulated solid copper wire, it would be great
> stuff to use,
> but usually it's silver-plated copper, which is rather bright-sounding.
Copper and Teflon react chemically, the teflon causes the copper to oxydize;
that's the reason why you hardly find any teflon-insulated copper wire.
Christian
>
>
> Have fun,
> Ross Lahlum
> rlahlum@juno.com
>
> On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:44:51 +0000 "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
> writes:
> >Hey grid lockers
> >
> >Somehow I got the notion of wiring up my PP300b amp with #18 solid
> >copper magnet wire insulated with teflon tubing I keep around...
> >
> >Anyone ever try it?
> >
> >Any ideas on the sonic fx?
> >
> >Any rags, any bones, any bottles today?
> >
> >blackie
> >blackie@tubesville.com
> >www.tubesville.com
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:07:21 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n507
blackie wrote:
>
> > Isn't magnet wire already coated with an insulator?
>
> Yes indeed it is, but teflon has a good dielectric constant...enamel
> I am not sure about.
From what Mike LeFevre has said, I gather that real enamel is not bad
- - lowish dielectric constant and fairly low dielectric absorption,
though teflon is better in both respects. But modern magnet wire is
usually coated with various plastic "enamels" which all have high DC
and very high DA - not good.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Peter Clark <phclark@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: teflon insulated magnet wire {Hi Pete}
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:29:57 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
Jim and Cindy wrote:
>
> Hi Pete
>
> What wire have you had better luck with
>
> Thanks Much
>
> James Dougherty
'Pends on what you are using it for. My assumption, possibly erroneous,
was that he was wanting to use the magnet wire for signal as well as
power supply internally. As signal wire magnet wire is less than
desirable, in my experience. The enamel sounds terrible. The enamel is
designed for one thing: to be durable enough to have the insulator
survive the mechanical feed on armature winding machines. All other
considerations are secondary. Doesn't mean that they are all that way,
but certainly the stuff I have experience with. I came to this in a
round about way, winding inductors. Seems that bare copper sounds MUCH
better if you can get away with it, usually you can't. What I prefer to
use as internal power supply wiring is Belden teflon jacketed silver
plated stranded, available from M.E.C.I., in the appropriate gauge.
Teflon doesn't sound too wonderful either. If you have the luxury,
purchasing solid wire separately from the insulation is the way to go.
Teflon tubing is generally available in three (sometimes four, depending
on gauge) wall thicknesses. The thinner the better, especially for
signal wiring. It takes a shorter time to break in, and the sound is
"crisper" the thinner it is. Generally, internal wiring doesn't have to
be particularly abrasion resistant after installation. I have taken to
wiring crossovers with no insulation at all. The small amounts of oxide
still sound better than any insulation.
Signal wire ought to be either 22 or (I prefer) 24 ga. solid silver with
separate teflon insulation. An application that is sometimes
preferable, though, is silver plated solid copper with Kynar insulation.
The Kynar insulation is quite sonically transparent, partially, I'm
sure, because it is so thin. It quite common for machine fed circuit
board fabrication. You can get it in 30 ga. at Radio Shack, but that's
too small a gauge to be useful, you need 24 ga. It makes very good home
made interconnect as well, if you experiment with it. Advantage is that
the Kynar wire is cheap. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find it
as tubing only except as shrink @ $.60 a foot.
Hope that all helps... Inductors are another matter.
Regards,
Peter Clark
=========================================================================
From: Peter Clark <phclark@uswest.net>
Subject: Teflon Jacketed Silver Wire
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:15:28 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n498
I'm trying to rebuild a few items I lost in a hard drive format. There
was a post in August or Seprember concerning light guage teflon jacketed
silver wire. The reference was to a biomedical outfir in Oregon and
specifically about electrode wire. Did anyone happen the save this?
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Peter Clark
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: Teflon Jacketed Silver Wire
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:29:06 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n498
It's at:
http://www.a-msystems.com/catalog/418345.asp
Which is NOT where is used to be... Took me a few minutes to find where
they moved it...
Peace
Peter Clark wrote:
>
> I'm trying to rebuild a few items I lost in a hard drive format. There
> was a post in August or Seprember concerning light guage teflon jacketed
> silver wire. The reference was to a biomedical outfir in Oregon and
> specifically about electrode wire. Did anyone happen the save this?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Clark
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: Re: Teflon Jacketed Silver Wire
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:42:15 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n498
At 22:15 20/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm trying to rebuild a few items I lost in a hard drive format. There
>was a post in August or Seprember concerning light guage teflon jacketed
>silver wire. The reference was to a biomedical outfir in Oregon and
>specifically about electrode wire. Did anyone happen the save this?
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Regards,
>
>Peter Clark
>
>
Perhaps you were looking for this:
From: "Emile Sprenger" <emile.sprenger@cmg.nl>
To: "Hugh Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>, <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Subject: Re: Sourcing silver wire...
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:30:07 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-sound@lists.io.com
> I have been pricing silver and trying to find a source here downunder.
> No dice. Does anyone know where you can find this stuff?
> And what sort of insulation would you use? Enamel or polyurethane?
I found two sites which supply (teflon isulated) silver wire:
http://www.a-msystems.com/cgi-bin-am/catalog.pl?CSP+new+phys/index
http://www.wpiinc.com/WPI_home.html
Prices seem more reasonable than 'audiophile' prices.
Emile
OR PERHAPS THIS:
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:55:17 -0600
From: Thomas Danley <tom@ppci.com>
Reply-To: tom@ppci.com
To: Hugh Dean <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
CC: sound@deliverator.io.com
Subject: Re: Sourcing silver wire...
Sender: owner-sound@lists.io.com
Hugh Dean wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Recently Lynn O. spoke of his definitive Ongaku test where he verified
> that it definitely sounded a heap better with the silver wire OPT.
>
> I have been pricing silver and trying to find a source here downunder.
> No dice. Does anyone know where you can find this stuff? What gauge
> and how much would you need to wind a 211/845 OPT?
>
> And what sort of insulation would you use? Enamel or polyurethane?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hugh R. Dean
> Melbourne, Australia
Hi
Regarding silver wire, a company called MWS wire industries makes
specialty wire of all kinds and can be reached at 818-991-8553 and they
are in Westlake Village California. This wire will not be cheap though
and given that resistance alone is neither frequency dependant or
non-linear it is worth considering that that property may not acount for
the difference in sound quality, rather that the winding geometry etc.
is more likely. After all, a reduction in resistance can also be
acheived by going up a half or whole step in wire gage.
If this is your first transformer, you might consider winding a regular
copper one first.
So far as insulation choice, a condensed summary from the MWS catalogue.
Type Temp rating Dielectric constant
Polyurethane 130 c 6.2
Poly nylon 130 c 6.2
Modified polyester 180 c 3.34
Armored polyester 200 c 4.55
Formvar 105 c 3.71
Polyamide 220 c 3.9
The physical properties are different for each also, Formvar is listed
as "tough" insulation. You might want to call and get there catalogue
just for reference, it has a lot of good information.
Also, you might want to get a copy of "Radiotron Designers Handbook"
(which I understand is available on CD-Rom now), as well as lots of good
tube design info, it has a nice section on transformer theory and
design.
Happy winding,
THomas Danley
X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to
owner-sound@lists.io.com using -f
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 98 08:42:57 -0500
From: "Jeff Brouwer"<jeff_brouwer_at_crc-tmd@mail.crc.com>
To: <sound@deliverator.io.com>, <drwkng@netvigator.com>, <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Solid core Silver cable
Sender: owner-sound@lists.io.com
Hi all,
Handmade Electronics (see advertisements in SP and VALVE) has solid
silver wire and also sells teflon tubing to sleeve it with.
Reasonable price, good service.
-jeff
X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to
owner-sound@lists.io.com using -f
From: "Graham Ingle" <blackcat.e@virgin.net>
To: <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Subject: Enameled Silver Wire.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:59:01 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Sender: owner-sound@lists.io.com
Hi,
I don't wish to turn the list into a market place, but in light of the
continuing interest in wire may I point out that I (we) are now able to
offer 99.999% pure silver wire ML enameled to BS68113.8. It's available in
0.6mm & 1.0mm at the moment, in any length or quantity. It is expensive but
it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than other
outlets!, price breaks for quantity. If anyone is interested please contact
me off list.
Thanks,
Graham.
blackcat electronics
mailto: blackcat.e@virgin.net
tel/fax +44 (0)1253 855294 UK
I hope one of these can be helpful. You could also surf over to
SoundStage. There is a recipy for sivercables and I think the supplier was
mentioned as well. Thats www.soundstage.com
Have fun
Robert in sunny Belgium
=========================================================================
From: Robert Root <rrjlife@earthlink.net>
Subject: Teflon Sockets:
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:44:04 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n277
I have two pairs of custom Teflon Sockets from Japan for
WE-205D Type tubes for sale $38/each
Thanks to all who responded to my Garage Sales. I am now down to
working stock..
=========================================================================
From: garyj <garyj@superlink.net>
Subject: Teflon Tape -- Cables?
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:43:36 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
Just wondering if anybody has tried using this fairly cheap plumbers
tape, which is made from teflon to cover fine silver cables, say around
26 gauge to make interconnects.
I think you would still need some kind of tape or something to house the
whole shebang, and that just may add more capicitance, and defeat the
whole purpose, but the whole idea of it sounds very easy to me.
thanks for your comments,
gary
=========================================================================
From: "william gaw." <whg@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Teflon Tape -- Cables?
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:41:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
Allan Wright came up with this concept of using teflon tape. It works well,
but is a pain to use. I you can, get a copy of his book. He lives in Munich
and his e-mail address is VacuumState@compuserve.com. Bill
- -----Original Message-----
From: garyj <garyj@superlink.net>
To: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 8:08 PM
Subject: Teflon Tape -- Cables?
>Just wondering if anybody has tried using this fairly cheap plumbers
>tape, which is made from teflon to cover fine silver cables, say around
>26 gauge to make interconnects.
>
>I think you would still need some kind of tape or something to house the
>whole shebang, and that just may add more capicitance, and defeat the
>whole purpose, but the whole idea of it sounds very easy to me.
>
>thanks for your comments,
>
>gary
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: teflon tubing
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 09:13:25 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n555
On 3 Jan 99 Michael and Bonnie Thomas said:
> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 09:29:18 -0500
> From: Michael and Bonnie Thomas <thomas@cybertours.com>
> Reply-to: thomas@cybertours.com
> Organization: thomas house computer
> To: joe list <sound@lists.io.com>
> Subject: teflon tubing
> Hello,
> Have got a source for silver wire 99.9%, but have had trouble
> finding
> teflon housing to put it in. Does anyone know a good resource in the
> states?
Small Parts Inc.
Phone 800 220 4242
Fax 800 423 9009
email: smlparts@smallpartss.com
Ask for their catalogue which has a great array of very neat small
stuff. Thanks to Frank D for turning me on to these guys.
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
=========================================================================
From: Michael and Bonnie Thomas <thomas@cybertours.com>
Subject: teflon tubing
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 09:29:18 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n555
Hello,
Have got a source for silver wire 99.9%, but have had trouble finding
teflon housing to put it in. Does anyone know a good resource in the
states?
Mike
=========================================================================
From: Tim Reese <tgrmail@nmr.MGH.harvard.EDU>
Subject: Re: teflon tubing
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 15:29:14 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n556
>Ken Dangerfield replied
>On 3 Jan 99 Michael and Bonnie Thomas said:
>> Hello,
>> Have got a source for silver wire 99.9%, but have had trouble
>> finding
>> teflon housing to put it in. Does anyone know a good resource in the
>> states?
>
>Small Parts Inc.
>Phone 800 220 4242
>Fax 800 423 9009
>email: smlparts@smallpartss.com
>
>Ask for their catalogue which has a great array of very neat small
>stuff. Thanks to Frank D for turning me on to these guys.
I'd second Small Parts; Handmade has it too, and in three colors (black,
red, natural).
Handmade Electronics
Allentown PA
610-432-5732 FAX 432-8971
handmade@ix.netcom.com
www2.netcom.com/~handmade/first.html
hours 10-3 M-Th
regards tr
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Reese, MGH NMR Center reese@nmr.MGH.harvard.edu
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: teflon tubing
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:33:31 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n556
Mike,
You may want to try:
Handmade Electronics
P. O. Box 9114,
Allentown, Pennsylvania 18105-9114.
Tel: 610-432-5732
Fax: 610-432-8971
email: handmade@ix.netcom.com
Regards,
Johari
- ----------
> From: Michael and Bonnie Thomas <thomas@cybertours.com>
> To: joe list <sound@lists.io.com>
> Subject: teflon tubing
> Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 10:29 PM
>
> Hello,
> Have got a source for silver wire 99.9%, but have had trouble finding
> teflon housing to put it in. Does anyone know a good resource in the
> states?
>
> Mike
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris" <tmackris@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: teflon tubing
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:23:27 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n558
Hi Michael,
Michael Percy Audio Products
Box 526
170 Highland
Inverness, CA
Tel: (415) 669-7181
Fax: (415) 669-7558
He only takes check or c.o.d. ($3.50 service charge) and has a minimum
order of $25.00. Shipping & handling starts at $5.00, but I've never
paid more than this. California residents pay 7.25% sales tax.
His catalog is about 20 pages, mostly of wire, connectors, caps,
resistors, hexfreds, damping materials, etc. He seems to take about 2-4
days to ship after receiving the order. His pricing is very competitive
and I've found him worth giving my business to.
Regards,
Thom
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 09:29:18 -0500
From: Michael and Bonnie Thomas <thomas@cybertours.com>
Subject: teflon tubing
Hello, Have got a source for silver wire 99.9%, but have had trouble
findingteflon housing to put it in. Does anyone know a good resource in
thestates?
Mike
==========================================================
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: Teflon tubing...multi-lumen
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 20:42:04 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n556
Michael and Bonnie Thomas wrote:
Hello,
Have a source for silver wire 99.9%, but have had trouble finding
teflon housing to put it in. Does anyone know a good resource in the
states?
>Snip
=======================================
Dear Folks:
Try this URL:
http://www.zeusinc.com/story.html
These people are a LARGE mfgr of Teflon tubing of every imaginable kind.
The reason I want to send you there is that they make multi-lumen, extruded
teflon tubing that will accommodate as many as 8 conductors... ideal for
interconnects. The trouble is, I can't find any mention of these products on
their site yet I know they make them.
Anyway, great interconnects can be made with 8 bore tubing by simply
sliding the wire into the (wire guaged) holes, subsequently slipping a piece
of surgical tubing over one end and, holding onto the other end of the
rubber tubing, submerging the whole issue into molten bees' wax in a double
boiler (not, NOT, >>>!!!NOT!!!<<< simply a directly heated sauce pan, the
wax flashes to flame without warning).
Once the lumen/wire is up to temperature just suck on the remote end of
the surgical tubing to draw the wax inside. In order to remove any entrapped
air, you'll have to pull though more wax than you actually need but this is
no problem as the far bigger rubber tubing fills up very slowly....
I've succesfully done this and so can anyone else who's had their
morning coffee, just use your head...if you burn yourself it ain't my
fault...
8 bore tubing is ideal for balanced interconnects as the wires can be
assigned:
1 pos, 2 gnd, 3 neg, 4 gnd, 5 pos, 6 gnd, 7 neg, 8 gnd.
This yields a signal carrying star-quad interposed with a ground
(shielding) star- quad... Some XLRs and you're off...
Don't put any sort of bare wire, braided shield around this arrangement.
All such constructions sound like Hell.... Imo bunched, bare wire has no
place anywhere in audio... period.
Ken Peterson, ex of Peterson Interconnects and an old and dear friend,
is the only person I know of who, ultimately, had New England Wire & Cable
braid up his cable shields using green colored, solder strippable magnet
wire. If you ever see the Peterson Emeralds used, just buy 'em.... and put
me on your Xmas card list.
Btw, Ken could fairly be considered to have started the whole
interconnect business in the mid/late 70s. Back then, everyone thought he
was NUTS but rapidly changed their tune once his wire was in the system....
He's now a computer consultant (Mac predominantly) and a VERY good
one... he's helped this traveller more times than I can count.
Sorry to say that there is no inducement on Earth that will get him back
into the cable business.. Can't hardly blame the man.
Slightly off topic: OHNO continuosly cast copper wire is, imo, superior
to silver in almost every case. We have small stocks of AWG nos. 21 & 26.5
in polystyrene insulated magnet wire. We'll have more later into this year..
Happy Trails
Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: Re: Teflon tubing...multi-lumen
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 21:10:47 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n557
OHNO continuosly cast copper wire is, imo, superior
>to silver in almost every case. We have small stocks of AWG nos. 21 & 26.5
>in polystyrene insulated magnet wire.
>
>
>
> Happy Trails
> Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
A guy brings home a new car ..... his with asks.... how did you decide on
that brand .... the husband answered ... well ..... the salesman said this
was the best one . (<: BG
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: Teflon tubing...multi-lumen
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 12:21:06 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n557
Bill Perkins wrote:
Snip
>> OHNO continuosly cast copper wire is, imo, superior
>>to silver in almost every case. We have small stocks of AWG nos. 21 & 26.5
>>in polystyrene insulated magnet wire.
Snip
>>
>> Happy Trails
>> Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
==============
Bill Gardner, <wg44929@navix.net>, wrote
>A guy brings home a new car ..... his with asks.... how did you decide on
>that brand .... the husband answered ... well ..... the salesman said this
>was the best one . (<: BG
===============
Ha...ha..... No comment
BP
=========================================================================
From: David Home <tubehead@vcn.bc.ca>
Subject: Tek ceramic terminal strips
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:40:57 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n208
I have a dead scope to salvage and think these terminal strips are the
cat's meow. A small roll of silver solder was included in the scope to
be used on the terminal strips. Very classy. The terminal strips will
be damaged, according to the instructions, by the use on normal
tin-lead solder. Is ther something special about this provided solder?
I want to use plane old Kester 3% silver solder. Is this enough silver
for these strips?
Regards, David
PS: I now have a lifetime's supply of 6DJ8s...
=========================================================================
From: Tim Reese <reese@nmr.MGH.harvard.EDU>
Subject: Tek manuals?
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:53:23 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n244
> At 07:03 AM 4/3/98 -0500, Robert Clark wrote:
> >
> >Does anyone know where I can get schematics for old techtronics gear?
>
I took this to mean Tektronics, not Technics. Fair Radio has some repros -
419-223-2196 in Lima OH. There is also at least one www site that has
bunches of Tek stuff; I can likely dredge it up if needed. cheers tr
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Reese, MGH NMR Center reese@nmr.MGH.harvard.edu
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@gte.net>
Subject: Tek Newbie
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 23:38:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n210
Just picked up a Tek 561A at Goodwill for $25 - it has a horizontal
section a delayed timebase model 3B1, much fancier than I know what to
do with. The construction of this thing is gorgeous, only genius can do
a lay out that well.
It lacks any vertical amp - it does have a note stating that it will
take series 2 or 3 plugins.
Two questions:
Can I safely power this thing up and check to see if it runs well enough
to be worth finding a plugin for it? Any tips?
Where can I find a plug in? Web searches turn up lots of parts for
later and earlier models, but almost none of the 2 and 3 series.
Many thanks,
ROn
=========================================================================
From: Sylvain Giguère <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: Tek Scope
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 21:58:51 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n099
Hello friends,
I need your advice. I found a Tek 551 two pieces scope. This thing is
huge and uses close to 150 tubes.. (I counted them..) It is in good
shape.
I already have a nice HP scope, so, no use for the Tek, but I just
couldn't resist since it's tubed...
So, the dilemna is this:
Should I follow my idea and put it apart so that I can have nice power
transfos and lots of sockets, military grade components...or try to sell
it to a Tek fan?
Has anybody an idea if this thing has any $$ value? When I look at it I
see lots of nice nice parts... and future projects...
Sylvain.
=========================================================================
From: Chris Galbraith <chrisg@ducker.com>
Subject: Tek setup--Joe's get first picks :)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:12:51 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n220
Guys--I'm movin' and liquidatin'!!
If anyone is looking for a scope, I've decided to sell mine--it's a Tek
7904 (500 MHz mainframe), with three plug-ins: 7A26 (200MHz dual
vertical), 7B85 (400MHz dual timebase w/delayed triggering), and
(coolest audio tool), 7A22 differential amp. Everything was calibrated
when I bought it 6 mos. ago, and it's gotten just a little use out of
me--it's so powerful, I can't do 3% of what it's capable of. Anyway,
let me know if your interested...I'm just looking to get back what I
paid for it (~$600). Thanks guys!! (guess my ears will have to do all
the testing for a little while)--chris
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: tek sidewalk score
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:20:51 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n243
hey its nyc and all the dumpsters are well... homes to assorted people and
vermin soo i stay clear, but on my way to lunch i saw three tek scopes up
for grabs... saw those bugle boy 6DJ8's and they were mine...
they are essentially scrap, but the crt's and iron all seem fine and are up
for grabs...as are other parts if needed...
there was a 502, 545, 545A, with type L and 53/54C dual trace plug-in.
i will be at jc's on sat if anyone local is interestd...
i also have a couple boxes of tube pulls (maybe 500 assorted??)... they
have been picked through, but they are looking for a good home.... you
gotta take 'em all though... i don't have the time to go through them, or
the heart to toss them.
dave
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
Subject: Tektronix 1L5 - dynamic range?
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:49:41 +0200 (MET DST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n311
Hello all!
With a lot of luck I have located a Tektronix 1L5 spectrum
analyzer plugin and I'm getting it for a fair price. The guy who's
selling it lives in Jemtland, Sweden (not too far from Trondheim)
and happens to drive to Trondheim regularly to buy shrimps (!) and
plans to make the trip again within a couple of weeks, when he will
meet me and bring the 1L5.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has used this unit (I'll be using it
in my 547 scope) and how it performs. I've been thinking that I'll
probably want to build some notch filters to remove the fundamental
for improved resolution when making harmonic distortion measurements,
or to use the scope output of the (ancient and not too reliable)
HP 330C distortion meter we have at the shop. In short, how can I get
the most from this unit, are there any worthwhile mods to consider etc.?
Tom D.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.ntnu.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \--\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@omegav.ntnu.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone (+47)73916898 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Dan Hon" <danielh@conc.tds.net>
Subject: Tektronix 545B & 454
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:57:37 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n054
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BCCF75.D06F2740
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----I've got two Tektronix scopes sitting on my coffee table and I need =
some info. on which one would better suit my needs. One is a 545B, =
bigger than a breadbox, and a 454, about 1/3rd the size. Haven't opened =
them up yet but was wondering what I had. Please send me some advice. =
I realize that this topic has gone around before but its fresh to me.
Thanks,
Dazed and Confused in Knoxville
Dan
Please reply to danielh@conc.tds.net
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BCCF75.D06F2740
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charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<HTML>
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"Trident 4.71.0544.0"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P> </P>
<P> ----<FONT size=3D2>I've got two Tektronix scopes sitting on my =
coffee table=20
and I need some info. on which one would better suit my needs. One is a =
545B,=20
bigger than a breadbox, and a 454, about 1/3rd the size. Haven't opened =
them up=20
yet but was wondering what I had. Please send me some advice. I =
realize that=20
this topic has gone around before but its fresh to me.</FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Dazed and Confused in Knoxville</FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Dan</FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Please reply to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:danielh@conc.tds.net">danielh@conc.tds.net</A><BR>
</FONT></P>
</FONT>
</BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BCCF75.D06F2740--
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@Worldnet.ATT.Net>
Subject: Re: Tektronix 545B & 454
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 22:30:35 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n055
Dan Hon wrote:
>
> ----I've got two Tektronix scopes sitting on my coffee table and I need some info. on which one w
ould better suit my needs. One is a 545B, bigger
than a brea
> Thanks,
> Dazed and Confused in Knoxville
> Dan
> Please reply to danielh@conc.tds.net
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ----I've got two Tektronix scopes sitting on my coffee table and I
> need some info. on which one would better suit my needs. One is a
> 545B, bigger than a breadbox, and a 454, about 1/3rd the size. Haven't
> opened them up yet but was wondering what I had. Please send me some
> advice. I realize that this topic has gone around before but its fresh
> to me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dazed and Confused in Knoxville
>
> Dan
>
> Please reply to danielh@conc.tds.net
Dan,
Well, you didn't state what your needs were, so the answer will have to be
generic. Both are good scopes, but the 454 is a more modern scope with
considerably higher bandwidth. It is the one I would keep, in fact I have
one. It is a 150 mHz (except on the two higher sensitivity settings) dual
trace, dual timebase transistorized scope while the 545 is a 30 mHz tube
scope, a boat anchor of sorts. The 545 also is a dual timebase scope and,
depending on the plug-in, probably a dual trace unit. The CA plug-in was
the more popular dual-trace plug-in for the 535/545 series scopes.
The 454 has a 5 mv/cm vertical sensitivity, while the CA plug-in is 50
mv/cm. Also, the vertical amplifiers in the 454 can be cascaded for a 1
mv sensitivity, in case you get a hankering to take your own EKG. The 454
is worth a lot more on the open market, maybe around $300 give or take a
bit and the 545, maybe fifty bucks. I recently bought a 535 scope (like
the 545 except 15 mHz) for $25 with plugins, a scope cart and six probes.
So there you have it, if you would rather stick some cash in your pocket
and have little use for a wideband scope, perhaps the 545 would be
adequate for your needs. OTOH, you might want to see if they both work
and how difficult it would to get them up and going, maybe hanging onto
both until you get them checked out, or perhaps repaired. I would not
expend a lot of time and effort on the 545 though, due to its limited
value. It was a good, reliable scope in its day though and would suffice
for audio hobbiest use, for sure. And they are especially nice in the
wintertime. Additionally, the 454 uses fairly standard parts, as I
recall, making it a lot more easily serviced than some later solid
state scopes that use specialized ICs and switches integrated into the
front panel, etc.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@bfm.com>
Subject: Re: Tektronix 545B & 454
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:54:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n055
On Oct 2, 10:30pm, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
> Additionally, the 454 uses fairly standard parts, as I
> recall, making it a lot more easily serviced than some later solid
> state scopes that use specialized ICs and switches integrated into the
> front panel, etc.
A big YES to that, Dan! Having (lovingly?) slaved over many a 7000-series
scope, and their associated plug-ins, fixing such things as unglued/broken
rotary cam switches, tracking down loosened highly static sensitive
Tek-custom virtually unavailable dual FET's, repairing or replacing gummed-up
or otherwise out-of-service almost unavailable precision air-variable trimmer
caps, replacing dead and just about unavailable Tek-custom
ICs/transistors/fittings/etc, hyper-delicate SMT soldering on micro-thin
irreplacable ultra-precision multilayer circuit boards, not to mention the
fun of disassembling (and, the true challenge: reassembling!) marvels of
three-dimensional precision electronic packaging, I can well attest to the
very custom and hard-to-obtain nature of Tek 7000-series parts, and the
difficulty of servicing these instruments in general.
(Can you tell this is what I was doing last night?)
If you are buying a new-to-you (used) scope, best look at the Tek 400-series;
as Dan said, those scopes are easily serviced and use few(er) Tek-custom
parts. Also, they are built fairly ruggedly, being originally sold as
portable field service scopes, primarily for the high-tech computer and
communications maintainence markets. The 7000-series scopes have some
advantages for a lab environment (a trully bewildering array of plug-ins, 4
trace capability, delta delay trace capability, etc), but unless you are
willing to put in the time (and money) required to maintain/calibrate/find
parts/repair these scopes, you are probably better off with one of
400-series.
(Of course, this is not to say anything negative about 7000-series scopes; I
absolutely love mine, and find them indispensible for many things. However,
they must be treated right, as true precision lab instruments. In their day,
they were state-of-the-art, and the high-speed analog scopes, the 500MHz and
1GHz models, remain among the fastest analog scopes available, at any price.)
One thing to keep in mind when buying scopes, in particular: try to avoid the
urge to buy more capability than you need. Be honest with yourself in
assessing your needs; don't over-buy! Although super-high-tech scopes might
seem like a great bargin (they might be only slightly more expensive in
purchase price), remember that prices on old equipment go down, not up, over
time, and that the higher-tech it is, the more expensive it will be to keep
it running. Also, any test gear is only as good as its calibration; as the
speed of the scope goes up, the more delicate it will be, the more difficult
the calibration proceedure will be, the more equipment it will require to
calibrate it: the expenses start adding up, quickly.
One final thing: the importance of calibration can not be overstated; even if
all you want to use the scope for is to get a basic picture of a waveform,
the scope must be at least minimally adjusted so that the compensation is
correct at all the frequencies you are looking at (i.e.: square waves should
be square). An uncalibrated scope can readily give a completely misleading
view of what is going on, and is a liability, not an asset. If you intend to
make measurements with your scope, proper calibration to specs (know and
understand those specs!) is no longer optional. (My advice: when buying a
used scope, factor in the cost of getting a competent -- though not
necessarily NIST traceable -- calibration performed; it will save you
headaches in the long run.)
Just my $0.02,
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tektronix 545B & 454
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:31:27 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n056
Frank Deutschmann wrote:
>
> If you are buying a new-to-you (used) scope, best look at the Tek 400-series;
> as Dan said, those scopes are easily serviced and use few(er) Tek-custom
> parts. Also, they are built fairly ruggedly, being originally sold as
> portable field service scopes, primarily for the high-tech computer and
> communications maintainence markets. <snip>
> -frank
Frank, et al,
Also, I also have an old HP 181 scope (like the HP 180 except is a
storage scope) and you know I really like that old scope. Actually, I
prefer using it over the 454 within its 50 mHz bandwidth limitation. It
has a much larger screen and a very clean, clear trace and the panel
controls are better laid out, and less congested. And it has the same
desirable servicibility features previously mentioned for the 454. So,
if anyone is looking for a good, practical, inexpensive scope for his
audio hobby, I would not pass up a good deal on an HP 180 or 181 scope,
as long as the crt is OK. 50 MHz should be adequate for most of your
audio needs. They can be found for quite a bit less than the 400 series
Tek scopes, in my experience.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: "Riesz, Ted - R&E" <Ted.Riesz@mailhost.dpie.gov.au>
Subject: RE: Tektronix 547
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:04:38 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n259
Hello
I have one of these babies (ie a 547).
Beautifully put together and will give up to 50Mz with a 1A1 or 1A2 from memory.
Only thing which would concern me is its complexity. Mor than 50 tubes, many of them 6DJ8's
Will take "letter " series (eg CA) plug ins or the "one" (eg 1A2).
I dont have a spectrum analyzer PI but would be keen if I could get one at a reasonable price. Not s
ure how common they are
One mod you can do with the 547 is to replace the HV rectifiers with SS diodes. You should also con
sider looking for some 6AU5's as spares whichi are used in the power suppy regulator circuit and whi
ch I understand can sometimes fail.
I also have a 1A4 four channel plug in.
Regards
Ted Riesz
. > From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
> To: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Tektronix 547 and Moseley plotter
> Date: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 5:38 AM
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Yesterday I found a perfectly good Tek 547 scope with three plugins,
> and today I found two more plugins. The ones I have are:
>
> 1A1
> 1A2
> 1A7A
> TYPE H
> TYPE L
>
> What are other intertesting plugins that work in this scope? I'm still
> looking for a 3L5 for my other Tek scope, but is there a similar audio
> spectrum analyzer plugin for the 547, and if so, what's the type I should
> be looking for?
>
>
> Tom D.
=========================================================================
From: "Steve @ Apex Jr" <steve.apexjr@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Tektronix 547 and Moseley plotter
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:57:57 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n258
Tom...
As I recall this is a good scope an update version of the workhorse 545
545A and 545B
it is a 50 Mhz scope and lots of tubes...Tek made 3 spectrum analyzer plug
ins
you'll be looking for the 1L10 version..it covers the audio
frequency..whereas the other
2 ...1L20 and 1L30 are higher frequency..Right now Tektronix does not
support
the older plug ins and they are complicated to fix so be
carefull.............
Steve
ApexJr
- ----------
> From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
> To: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Tektronix 547 and Moseley plotter
> Date: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 5:38 AM
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Yesterday I found a perfectly good Tek 547 scope with three plugins,
> and today I found two more plugins. The ones I have are:
>
> 1A1
> 1A2
> 1A7A
> TYPE H
> TYPE L
>
> What are other intertesting plugins that work in this scope? I'm still
> looking for a 3L5 for my other Tek scope, but is there a similar audio
> spectrum analyzer plugin for the 547, and if so, what's the type I should
> be looking for?
>
> I also found a Moseley "Model 7100BM strip chart recorder" (with a minor
> mechanical problem) for which I need documentation. Any kind of help
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Tom D.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
> / \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.unit.no/~dunker/horns.html
> | | 7002 Trondheim \
> | | NORWAY \------\ "Those with head above water
> \____/ dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
> |||| phone (+47)73916898 \ (Gene Dalby)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
Subject: Tektronix 547 and Moseley plotter
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:38:39 +0200 (MET DST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n258
Hello all,
Yesterday I found a perfectly good Tek 547 scope with three plugins,
and today I found two more plugins. The ones I have are:
1A1
1A2
1A7A
TYPE H
TYPE L
What are other intertesting plugins that work in this scope? I'm still
looking for a 3L5 for my other Tek scope, but is there a similar audio
spectrum analyzer plugin for the 547, and if so, what's the type I should
be looking for?
I also found a Moseley "Model 7100BM strip chart recorder" (with a minor
mechanical problem) for which I need documentation. Any kind of help
would be greatly appreciated.
Tom D.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.unit.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \------\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone (+47)73916898 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Tektronix 547 and Moseley plotter
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:20:31 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n259
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Thomas Dunker wrote:
> What are other intertesting plugins that work in this scope? I'm still
> looking for a 3L5 for my other Tek scope, but is there a similar audio
> spectrum analyzer plugin for the 547, and if so, what's the type I should
> be looking for?
The 1L5. I saw one for sale last year, they look exactly like the 3L5,
except a little larger to plug into the 54X series scopes.
If you find a 3L5 you will have to have a sweep module that has been
modified to put out a ramp to the analyzer. All the modules after a
certain ser# had the mod. It tells where the numbers start in the 3L5
manual.
I have a complete working and calibrated 561, 3L5, 3B67, complete with all
manuals, what will you offer?
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: test2
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:15:19 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n222
sorry,
test with new account
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: "SJ Creamer" <screamer@NirvanaAudio.com>
Subject: test
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 08:05:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
This is a test. Do not be alarmed, this is only a test. We have no plans to
move into your neighborhood. Don't sell your homes. This is only a test.
I repeat -This is only a test.
...screamer
www.NirvanaAudio.com
phn/fax 1 516 285 1950
screamer@NirvanaAudio.com
PO Box 1053 Valley Stream, NY 11582 USA
=========================================================================
From: LC <lorenaudio@hotmail.com>
Subject: test
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 17:51:17 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Tnx for the bandwith, and of the message made it, hoorayy!
=========================================================================
From: Yip Hin Fai Johari <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: test
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:03:19 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Hi guys
sorry for the bandwidth
Johari
=========================================================================
From: jdougher@tir.com (jdougher)
Subject: Test
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 01:21:49 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
This only a test
=========================================================================
From: Albert Tan <albert@audiophile.com>
Subject: test
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:16:53 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Sorry guys
Albert
=========================================================================
From: "GREGORY MONFORT" <WINGRACER@classic.msn.com>
Subject: Test
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 01:56:48 UT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Test
=========================================================================
From: "GREGORY MONFORT" <WINGRACER@classic.msn.com>
Subject: Test
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 11:00:19 UT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n002
Test
=========================================================================
From: Dave Wakeman <wakemand@rferl.org>
Subject: test
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 22:45:22 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n022
test
=========================================================================
From: jean-francois.fronton@cst.cnes.fr
Subject: TEST
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:22:55 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n026
TEST
=========================================================================
From: jean-francois.fronton@cst.cnes.fr
Subject: TEST
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:59:10 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n026
TEST
=========================================================================
From: jean-francois.fronton@cst.cnes.fr
Subject: TEST
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:11:51 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n027
TEST
=========================================================================
From: Albert Tan <albert@audiophile.com>
Subject: test
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:09:22 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n048
=========================================================================
From: jean-francois.fronton@cst.cnes.fr
Subject: TEST
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:12:05 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n048
TEST
=========================================================================
From: Dale.Simon@pscmail.ps.net
Subject: test
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:02:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n054
test
=========================================================================
From: Ashby Box <eab008@email.mot.com>
Subject: test
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 16:20:54 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n056
test
=========================================================================
From: Ashby Box <eab008@email.mot.com>
Subject: test
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:13:28 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
sound@deliverator.io.com
=========================================================================
From: Dale.Simon@pscmail.ps.net
Subject: test
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:57:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n072
test
=========================================================================
From: Aernoud van der Wielen <aernoud@usn.nl>
Subject: test
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:07:11 +0200 (MET DST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n077
test
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: test
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:34:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n150
test
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: test
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:24:48 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n193
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com>
Subject: test
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:06:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n222
test, sorry.
i posted a couple replies to that "cathode bias 45" thread
and haven't seen them show up ;(
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: Robert Lamarre <rlamarre@rlacoustique.com>
Subject: test
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:48:09 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n245
Testy,vkvkvkcvkc
Regards, Robert Lamarre
RL Acoustique, Manufacturer of The Lamhorn using Lowthers and Reps
e-mail : rlamarre@rlacoustique.com--------------------------------
ph./fax: 514-653-3461 Canada--------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
Subject: test
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:05:15 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n256
Test.
=========================================================================
From: Bob Chernofsky <bobc@mci2000.com>
Subject: test
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:56:32 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n265
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <donen@banet.net>
Subject: test
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:00:42 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n278
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD7EA9.CF30DA20
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
test
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD7EA9.CF30DA20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>test</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD7EA9.CF30DA20--
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: test
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:45:49 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n279
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BD7FDD.DC9B30E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
test
- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BD7FDD.DC9B30E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>test</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BD7FDD.DC9B30E0--
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_Gigu=E8re?=" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: Test
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:37:23 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n313
Please ignore
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_Gigu=E8re?=" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: test
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:28:35 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n314
...Sorry for the bandwith, but all my messages "disappear". Except the
"test" ones.. mystery...
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_Gigu=E8re?=" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: Test
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:29:52 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n314
Sorry for the wasted bandwith. All my messages, but "test", do not
appear...
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: Test
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:28:48 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n319
test
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Test
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:41:59 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n320
Any one seeing this?
Cheers
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: Edgar Faulkner <efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: test....
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:51:36 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n349
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <scb2@saturn.bton.ac.uk>
Subject: TEST
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:59:33 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n415
Dr Simon Busbridge
Department of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
Subject: test
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:07:54 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
- --
Pete Drake
peterd@ndsuk.com
http://www.ndsworld.com
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Test
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:51:01 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
=========================================================================
From: Daniel Normolle <monk@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:12:18 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
Le Cleac'h J.-M. wrote:
> ----------
> > De : Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
> > A : lecleach@cgis0.ensmp.fr
> > Cc : Joelist <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> > Objet : Re: Test
> > Date : mardi 22 septembre 1998 14:53
> >
> > Le Cleac'h J.-M. wrote:
> > <nothing>
> >
> > Is there any body out there ?
>
> Pete,
>
> It seems that some inhabitual traffic on the net in the USA require all the
> bandwith.
>
> What is it? :-)
>
CNN was reporting 300,000 hits per hour on its web site yesterday morning.
You mention a cigar, and the whole damn country comes to a screeching halt.
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:30:05 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
>CNN was reporting 300,000 hits per hour on its web site yesterday morning.
>
>You mention a cigar, and the whole damn country comes to a screeching halt.
You'd think with all the tons of porno on the internet a cigar would be
small potatoes (or a tuber to make sure the post is on-topic).
(Hey, no posts about kinky uses for vacuum tubes! The health hazards of
improper cigar use are bad enough.)
Lynn T. Olson
Editor, Valve & Tube News
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
=========================================================================
From: Ed Faulkner <efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: test
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:06:24 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
_____________________________
Ed Faulkner \ through a child's eyes
CMT Supervisor \ sky is blue
Washington State University \ grass is green
Pullman, WA,99164 \ I want to see again
(509) 335-7566 \
efaulkne@wsu.edu \______________________
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:44:28 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
- ----------
> De : Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
> A : lecleach@cgis0.ensmp.fr
> Cc : Joelist <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Objet : Re: Test
> Date : mardi 22 septembre 1998 14:53
>
> Le Cleac'h J.-M. wrote:
> <nothing>
>
> Is there any body out there ?
Pete,
It seems that some inhabitual traffic on the net in the USA require all the
bandwith.
What is it? :-)
Best regards.
Jean-Michel
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:58:42 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
I never thought I'd see the day when the Joenetters were so bored that we would
be replying to posts labelled "test".
Oh, well. You live long enough you eventually see it all.
Cheers! :-)
S.G.
- --
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! at
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Also see my new website, Smoke Free Youth! at
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:11:00 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
- ----------
> De : Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
> Date : mercredi 23 septembre 1998 00:58
>
> I never thought I'd see the day when the Joenetters were so bored that we
would
> be replying to posts labelled "test".
That's a very strange situation!
I send a long message about room colouration to the list 3 times, it still
doesn't appear.
It seems that only short messages come through...
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Test
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 05:14:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n428
>I send a long message about room colouration to the list 3 times, it still
>doesn't appear.
>
>It seems that only short messages come through...
>
>Best regards,
>
>Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h
This new malady IS contagious.
Jean-Michel has "postitis". Major symptom: can't post but a few lines, if
at all.
I had postitis until last week- this was very first recorded case.
(there i go, self-proclaiming again)
Happily, the postitis cleared up by itself, and I bet it runs it's natural
course with you too. What a strange malady! I did unsubcribe and then
renew, however, it was still some days more before my posts went up. They
finally returned to normal size and lack of content, which is perhaps a good
sign after all. <grin>
Any readers who are experiencing the same trouble as Jean-Michel please drop
me a line. I'll do a tally and report back with the results. One last
thought... I use the Outlook 98 mail program. Is this a common denominator
by any chance?
Reid
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:49:57 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n429
On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 05:14:05 -0400, "Reid Welch"
<rewelch@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Any readers who are experiencing the same trouble as Jean-Michel please drop
>me a line. I'll do a tally and report back with the results. One last
>thought... I use the Outlook 98 mail program. Is this a common denominator
>by any chance?
My version of the malady is that I can post replies, but cannot post
new, original messages. The length of my reply doesn't seem to be an
issue, and I submit my "this is only a test" message as evidence....
My posts aren't bouncing, they just seem to vanish into the bitbucket.
Oh, and I'm not using Outlook 98, I use Forte Agent 1.5 for my mail
client.
Isn't Jeremy Epstein the resident Majordomo expert? I hope the recent
stock market rollercoaster hasn't caused him to jump off the ledge....
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: test
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:22:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n429
OK, I'll test on a new message too. My post of the other day didn't make
it through. - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
=========================================================================
From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:32:39 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n436
Test
=========================================================================
From: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
Subject: test
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:31:24 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n456
=========================================================================
From: Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
Subject: Test
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:57:28 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n485
Thorsten, Jean-Michel,
Is joenet alive ?
I think there might be an email problem here at work.
Please reply to both peterd@ndsuk.com and pdrake@ndsuk.com -
these addresses go to different email systems (Unix & Outlook resp) -
telling me whether you you've got it from joenet or justdirectly from
me directly.
Thanks very much.
- --
Pete Drake
peterd@ndsuk.com
http://www.ndsworld.com
=========================================================================
From: "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
Subject: test
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:38:37 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n496
whatthehell is going on here!!!
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: Re: test
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:00:14 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n496
At 06:38 AM 11/19/98 +0000, blackie wrote:
>whatthehell is going on here!!! Most of the time a lot of oneupmanship
>
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: test
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:18:57 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n501
Let's see if this address works better
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Test
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:52:55 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n508
Test, pls disregard.
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: test again sorry
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:58:51 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n216
test from robert.m.danielak@lmco.com
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: test, and cartridge source
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:40:02 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n490
I haven't been able to post to the list for a few days, so this is both a
test and a notice to those interested that Music Direct has the Audioquest
ML-150 on special now for $189.99. They also have some special low output
Grado wood bodies (1.5mv) for bigger bucks.
Music Direct 800-449-8333
Not affiliated, YMMV, blah, blah, blah ...
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: Re: test and mailing problems
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:44:22 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n224
At 16:06 19/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>test, sorry.
>
>i posted a couple replies to that "cathode bias 45" thread
>and haven't seen them show up ;(
>
>bob.d.
>
>
This seems to happen with irregular intervals. On some other lists you you
have to set and ack-flag in order to receive your own mails, but here I
seem to receive most but not all of my mails.
Occasionally I seem to see follow-up mail to a posting I haven't seen.
This could of couse be because (as it has happened to me) we just reply, in
which case the reply only go to the originator of the mail and not to the
list.
I have not seen the list of urls I forwarded to jc for instance so I don't
know if it appeared on the list.
Greetings from dismal Brussels
=========================================================================
From: "Multi-Volti Devices" <multi-volti@softhouse.com>
Subject: Test and multi-subject reply
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:41:12 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n551
1) Barkhausen 'effect' or 'noise'...how would amorphous (iron?) behave with
respect to the discussion in Digest 549?
2) Dogs barking/howling ...I read somewhere (years ago) that (dog or wolf)
packs howl as a group at different pitches to attain dissonance for the
purpose to making the pack sound bigger. As a kid, the important issue for
me (a born skeptic) was, "Yeah right, what dog told them that?" My current
canine will occasionally howl (a pathetic moan interrupted by my
laughing...she only howls when a siren goes by AND she thinks she's alone.
Oh, and to get back on audio topics, when I was a kid my father had an old
Wollensack portable reel-to-reel tape recorder (probably doesn't even belong
on this list!). We used to record the dog barking at the mailman, play it
back and scare the hell outta the dog...he never could figure out who the
mad psycho dog was.
3) Norma/Norman...what a great sense of humor...reminds me of my renaming
someone named Don I worked with Donna after he had an operation after his
wife had their 5th child.
Happy Holidays, all.
Murray
=========================================================================
From: "Martin E. von Lindenberg" <mvon@pop.erols.com>
Subject: RE: Test and other problems
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:16:31 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n428
At 05:14 AM 9/23/98 -0400, Reid Welch wrote:
>>I send a long message about room colouration to the list 3 times, it still
>>doesn't appear.
>>
>>It seems that only short messages come through...
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h
>
>
>This new malady IS contagious.
>
>Jean-Michel has "postitis". Major symptom: can't post but a few lines, if
>at all.
>
>I had postitis until last week- this was very first recorded case.
>
>(there i go, self-proclaiming again)
>
>Happily, the postitis cleared up by itself, and I bet it runs it's natural
>course with you too. What a strange malady! I did unsubcribe and then
>renew, however, it was still some days more before my posts went up. They
>finally returned to normal size and lack of content, which is perhaps a good
>sign after all. <grin>
>
>Any readers who are experiencing the same trouble as Jean-Michel please drop
>me a line. I'll do a tally and report back with the results. One last
>thought... I use the Outlook 98 mail program. Is this a common denominator
>by any chance?
>
>Reid
Reid,
May I (again) report a different problem?
The server sends me two copies of most posts, with the same time stamp but
arriving at different times -- that is, it will send to my mail server a
group of posts, and then repeat the group.
Earlier it was suggested that this may be a problem from using Eudora's
filters, but disabling all filters ans counting posts in my mailbox with
the number of messages retrieved confirms that the Joenet sever is sending
duplicates of *most, but not all* messages.
I had viewed this as a large, but tolerable, annoyance (cf., various flame
wars), but as long as we want to fix stuff ---
Martin
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: RE: Test and other problems
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:46:27 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n429
At 8:16 AM -0400 9/23/98, Martin E. von Lindenberg wrote:
>May I (again) report a different problem?
>
>The server sends me two copies of most posts, with the same time stamp but
>arriving at different times -- that is, it will send to my mail server a
>group of posts, and then repeat the group.
>
>Earlier it was suggested that this may be a problem from using Eudora's
>filters, but disabling all filters ans counting posts in my mailbox with
>the number of messages retrieved confirms that the Joenet sever is sending
>duplicates of *most, but not all* messages.
>
>I had viewed this as a large, but tolerable, annoyance (cf., various flame
>wars), but as long as we want to fix stuff ---
I have this problem too, and no amount of unsubscribing and resubscribing
has fixed it. I look on the bright side and figure that if I skimmed and
missed something interesting, I get a second chance :-)
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: "Multi-Volti Devices" <multi-volti@softhouse.com>
Subject: Test, and remark on toroidal chokes, SupeReg question
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 02:04:01 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n565
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BE3B74.53ADD960
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello:
Don't post often...just read, so I want to make sure I know how to post =
again.
I understand 'they' (if you have a source for toroid cores, 'they' =
should be able to gap it for you, within their mechanical limitations) =
can do a single gap if not too small for their cutting method. If too =
small, they have to do a double gap. How to keep together, and why =
bother at that point? I think they usually 'band' the core with wire or =
steel strip to keep it together. At least that's what I requested to =
avoid 'tuning fork' mechanical resonance effect on the core, and they =
said 'ok'.
Someone posted some thoughts on what I guess is called vertical =
sectionalizing in RDH 4th ed. I have been doing that in my head and on =
paper (no way I'm gonna wind one by hand) with the someday goal of doing =
parafeed chokes and outputs on toroids. But I need to find a winding =
company willing to do prototyping that I can afford (I've only talked to =
Toroid of MD, and they told me they won't do any audio work (?). Maybe =
they figure even if I pay for it, the potential for too much grief is =
there).
Lastly, anyone have comments to share on Wright Shunt SuperReg?...looks =
interesting.
Thanks
Murray
- ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BE3B74.53ADD960
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Don't post often...just read, so I =
want to make=20
sure I know how to post again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I understand 'they' (if you have a =
source for=20
toroid cores, 'they' should be able to gap it for you, within their =
mechanical=20
limitations) can do a single gap if not too small for their cutting =
method. If=20
too small, they have to do a double gap. How to keep together, and why =
bother at=20
that point? I think they usually 'band' the core with wire or steel =
strip to=20
keep it together. At least that's what I requested to avoid 'tuning =
fork'=20
mechanical resonance effect on the core, and they said =
'ok'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Someone posted some thoughts on what =
I guess is=20
called vertical sectionalizing in RDH 4th ed. I have been doing =
that in my=20
head and on paper (no way I'm gonna wind one by hand) with the someday =
goal of=20
doing parafeed chokes and outputs on toroids. But I need to find a =
winding=20
company willing to do prototyping that I can afford (I've only talked to =
Toroid=20
of MD, and they told me they won't do any audio work (?). Maybe they =
figure even=20
if I pay for it, the potential for too much grief is =
there).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Lastly, anyone have comments to =
share on Wright=20
Shunt SuperReg?...looks interesting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Murray</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BE3B74.53ADD960--
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Test, and remark on toroidal chokes, SupeReg question
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 03:35:01 PST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n565
Hi there,
>I understand 'they' (if you have a source for toroid cores, 'they' =
>should be able to gap it for you, within their mechanical
>limitations) = can do a single gap if not too small for their
>cutting method.
The more interesting question is, once you have these Cores, how do you
wind them...?
>Lastly, anyone have comments to share on Wright Shunt
>SuperReg?...looks interesting.
I had the Kit from Allen for Evaluation. I tried it. I still preferred
(marginally) my own supply as per my preamp, shown @ www.vt52.com - look
under DIY.
However, we have to consider the price of the Kit (DM 150 that under 100
Bucks last time I looked) and that most not so experienced Builders
should have little Problems building.....
I must say (as I did before Allen) the instructions could be a little
clearer for "Absolute Beginners" but they suffice.
This Regulator sounds extremely clean and natural. It does have slight
remaining "edge" to it, compared to my PSU using "decoupled regulation"
and "decoupled bypassing"....
But then - my PSU is as large as the whole Pre, weights 20kg and cost
more to build from Surplus Parts than buying Allens Regulator KIT, a
Mains-X-Former, a Input Choke and Filter Cap at retail....
So, make that a "confidently recommended" from me for Allens
"Super-Reg"....
Now if Allen could only get around to sorting out the Version using a
nice clean and fast Video-Opamp, instead of the sluggish and nasty
sounding FET-Opamp's soon, it might just be the best PSU in the world
(are you listening Allen?)....
Kind regards Thorsten.
======================================
e-mail:
Thorsten@tnt-audio.com
Visit TNT-Audio on the Web - the only advertising
free audio web-zine.
http://www.tnt-audio.com
======================================
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: Test - and thanks to Jeremy Epstein
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:21:25 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n384
If this gets through - YIPPEE! It's been 4 months since you've had to suffer
my contributions, due to a weird characteristic of my subscription making it
impossible for me to post to the list. Well the honeymoon is over.
And special thanks to Jeremy for helping me back on board.
Now I have to think of something actually worth saying ....umm..... nah, too
hard.
'Til later,
Grant
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Test - and thanks to Jeremy Epstein
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:41:51 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n384
Welcome back, Grant.
Johari Yip
[ hfyip@pacific.net.sg ]
- ----------
> From: Sellek, Grant (TSA) <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
> To: 'sound@lists.io.com'
> Subject: Test - and thanks to Jeremy Epstein
> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 3:51 PM
>
> If this gets through - YIPPEE! It's been 4 months since you've had to
suffer
> my contributions, due to a weird characteristic of my subscription making
it
> impossible for me to post to the list. Well the honeymoon is over.
>
> And special thanks to Jeremy for helping me back on board.
>
> Now I have to think of something actually worth saying ....umm..... nah,
too
> hard.
>
> 'Til later,
> Grant
=========================================================================
From: An-shyang Chu <achu@sandia.gov>
Subject: test CD & MAC
Date: 16 Jan 1998 11:07:30 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n163
Hi,
What is a good test CD that people have found useful for testing/building
speakers (i.e. frequency sweeps, notes, pink noise, scales etc.)?
Hey Miky!! are you going to make a "Mother of All Choke" for the big VV52?
What will it be.... 20 lbs with its own support?
hopper
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: test CDs and sound level meters?
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:58:21 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n197
There is a fairly comprehensive audio softward library at the
following site:
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/%7Espeakers/software/software.html
Amongst others, it has BestPlace which is extremely easy to use
(haven't verified its accuracy with actual measurements though).
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
On 20 Feb 98 William Hunt said:
<snip>
> If the response problem is real, I may have to work on speaker
> placement. Any suggestions on PC software to predict low frequency room
> response?
>
> Bill Hunt
>
>
=========================================================================
From: William Hunt <wjhunt@ccnet.com>
Subject: test CDs and sound level meters?
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:21:42 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n197
I'm setting up a new pair of speakers and need to measure the in-room
frequence response. I have been using the Stereophile Test CD 2 and a
Radio Shack sound level meter.
Response seems good (+- 1-2 dB from ~ 14 K down to 63 Hz. Below that
the level drops 6-8 dB. I suspected that the meter was not flat at low
frequencies. It sounds as though the level does drop off. I am aware
of the Fletcher-Munson effect so I ran the experiment again with higher
sound levels. Still sounds as though bass drops off at 50 Hz and below.
To make progress. I think I need a better mic. / sound level meter. I
think that $ 100 would feel reasonable and over $ 200 might seem too
painful. Any suggestions for cheap test gear>
The Stereophile Test CD 2 seems Ok but the tones for each frequency band
are marked by index points rather than tracks. My CD player doesn't
show the current index point so I have to listen closely and note each
change in frequency to keep track. Any suggestions for other test CDs?
If the response problem is real, I may have to work on speaker
placement. Any suggestions on PC software to predict low frequency room
response?
Bill Hunt
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: test CDs and sound level meters?
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:10:07 -0400 (AST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n197
On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, William Hunt wrote:
> I'm setting up a new pair of speakers and need to measure the in-room
> frequence response. I have been using the Stereophile Test CD 2 and a
> Radio Shack sound level meter.
>
> Response seems good (+- 1-2 dB from ~ 14 K down to 63 Hz. Below that
> the level drops 6-8 dB. I suspected that the meter was not flat at low
I seem to remember someone who posted specs on the RS spl meter that
showed it had really wierd response below 100 hz. or so. The conclusion
was that it was only good for the midrange section of the audio spectrum.
I've tried the same set up idea as you (same spl meter and same test cd)
and found that, to my ears, when the cd went from the 50hz to the 40hz
tracks my ears detected no difference but the spl meter said there was a
6dB dropoff. I'm assumming I could hear that much difference, even with my
poor abused ears, so I began to question my meter.
Bottom line, don't trust your RS spl meter for bass. I think it was Kal (
Kal are you reading this) who pointed out some URL's for people who make
software that turns your PC into a useful tool for this kind of analysis.
Hope this helps, probably won't but I tried!
Cheers
Richard Nevill
> frequencies. It sounds as though the level does drop off. I am aware
> of the Fletcher-Munson effect so I ran the experiment again with higher
> sound levels. Still sounds as though bass drops off at 50 Hz and below.
>
> To make progress. I think I need a better mic. / sound level meter. I
> think that $ 100 would feel reasonable and over $ 200 might seem too
> painful. Any suggestions for cheap test gear>
>
> The Stereophile Test CD 2 seems Ok but the tones for each frequency band
> are marked by index points rather than tracks. My CD player doesn't
> show the current index point so I have to listen closely and note each
> change in frequency to keep track. Any suggestions for other test CDs?
>
> If the response problem is real, I may have to work on speaker
> placement. Any suggestions on PC software to predict low frequency room
> response?
>
> Bill Hunt
>
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: test CDs and sound level meters?
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:04:48 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n198
Richard C Nevill wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, William Hunt wrote:
>
> > I'm setting up a new pair of speakers and need to measure the in-room
> > frequence response. I have been using the Stereophile Test CD 2 and a
> > Radio Shack sound level meter.
> >
> > Response seems good (+- 1-2 dB from ~ 14 K down to 63 Hz. Below that
> > the level drops 6-8 dB. I suspected that the meter was not flat at low
>
> >
Try http://watt.seas.virginia.edu/~edw3g/rsmeter.txt for mods to make the RS
meter flatter....
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: test CDs and sound level meters?
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:01:52 -0400 (AST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n198
Thanks Roscoe,
I'll check into this
Richard Nevill
On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Roscoe Primrose wrote:
> Richard C Nevill wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, William Hunt wrote:
> >
> > > I'm setting up a new pair of speakers and need to measure the in-room
> > > frequence response. I have been using the Stereophile Test CD 2 and a
> > > Radio Shack sound level meter.
> > >
> > > Response seems good (+- 1-2 dB from ~ 14 K down to 63 Hz. Below that
> > > the level drops 6-8 dB. I suspected that the meter was not flat at low
> >
> > >
>
> Try http://watt.seas.virginia.edu/~edw3g/rsmeter.txt for mods to make the RS
> meter flatter....
>
> --
> Roscoe Primrose
> -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
>
> "Once in a while you get shown the light
> In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: test CDs and sound level meters?
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:43:31 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n198
Sellek, Grant (TSA) wrote:
>
>
> > I seem to remember someone who posted specs on the RS spl meter that
> >showed it had really wierd response below 100 hz. or so. The conclusion
> >was that it was only good for the midrange section of the audio spectrum.
>
> The manual for my Realistic Sound Level Meter (which I think is the
> meter to which you refer) show FR curves on pg8 where the meter's
> response on the C-weighting setting is dead flat 0dB from 20hZ to 2.5k,
> then rising to +2db by 3k, then flat at +2db from 3k to 5k, then rising
> to a peak of +4db at 6.5k, then falling to -2.5db at 10k, then falling
> more rapidly to -17dB at 20k.
>
> The manual's own description of this curve on is "The C-weighting curve
> is nearly uniform over the frequency range from 32 to 10,000Hz". (pg7).
>
> However, I wonder whether this is more a description of the C-weighted
> curve than the meter's FR. It seems unlikely that the built-in mic's FR
> is dead flat to 20Hz, and unlikely, at the price, that the circuit
> corrects for the mic. But I'll be happy if I'm wrong.
>
> Grant
>
> Grant Sellek
> Adelaide, Australia
> grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
Hi All
I did have a Radio Shack Sl meter at the place I used to work at (until
it vanished). It agreed well (within 1 DB) with a Bruel & Kjaer 2204
up to about 110 DB where it began to poop out at the low bass
frequencies. It seemed linear, and as I recall did go down to 20 HZ OK
but the "C" weighting has to be acounted for if you are making response
curves etc.
The weighting curve means you must add the following DB to get the
actual response. The standard "C" curve compensation is:
20HZ =6.2DB 25HZ =4.4DB 31.5HZ =3DB 40HZ =2DB 50 =1.3DB
63HZ =.8DB 80 HZ =.5DB 100HZ =.3DB 125HZ =.2DB 160 =.1DB
200HZ to 1250HZ Flat
1600HZ = .1DB 2000HZ =.2DB 2500HZ =.3DB 3150HZ =.5DB
4KHZ =.8DB 5KHZ =1.3DB 6.3KHZ =2DB 8KHZ =3DB 10KHZ =4.4DB
12.5KHZ =6.2DB 16KHZ =8.5DB 20KHZ =11.2DB
Happy measuring
Thomas Danley
Intersonics Technology Corp
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: test CDs and sound level meters?
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:17:31 +1030
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n198
>----------
>From: Richard C Nevill[SMTP:rnevill@is.dal.ca]
> I seem to remember someone who posted specs on the RS spl meter that
>showed it had really wierd response below 100 hz. or so. The conclusion
>was that it was only good for the midrange section of the audio spectrum.
The manual for my Realistic Sound Level Meter (which I think is the
meter to which you refer) show FR curves on pg8 where the meter's
response on the C-weighting setting is dead flat 0dB from 20hZ to 2.5k,
then rising to +2db by 3k, then flat at +2db from 3k to 5k, then rising
to a peak of +4db at 6.5k, then falling to -2.5db at 10k, then falling
more rapidly to -17dB at 20k.
The manual's own description of this curve on is "The C-weighting curve
is nearly uniform over the frequency range from 32 to 10,000Hz". (pg7).
However, I wonder whether this is more a description of the C-weighted
curve than the meter's FR. It seems unlikely that the built-in mic's FR
is dead flat to 20Hz, and unlikely, at the price, that the circuit
corrects for the mic. But I'll be happy if I'm wrong.
Grant
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: test CDs and sound level meters?
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:22:09 +1030
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n198
>From: Roscoe Primrose[SMTP:roscoe@aiko.com]
>
> Try http://watt.seas.virginia.edu/~edw3g/rsmeter.txt for mods to make the RS
>meter flatter....
This is great! Thanks a lot.
Grant
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: test - delete
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:15:05 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n236
just testin
bold
italic
14 point
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
=========================================================================
From: DWAxelrod@aol.com
Subject: test, don't read
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:04:45 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n026
test
=========================================================================
From: "Bastien Bouchard" <bastienb@microtec.net>
Subject: test: don't read
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:54:01 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n304
=========================================================================
From: "Igor Zamberlan" <zamberla@regione.liguria.it>
Subject: test - don't read
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:47:41 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n409
test this is a test
igor
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: tester filament voltage
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:03:05 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n134
slagle@dtlweb.com wrote:
>
> I was playing with some alleged weak 45's on my tester and they tested fine
> on the 3V setting but weak on the 2.5V setting.... a quick check showed me
> that when set to 2.5V there was 2.1V and the 3V setting gave me 2.6V....
>
> moving on in order to get 5V on a 3A filament i had to go past the 6.3 to
> the 7.5V setting to get 4.9V.....
>
> I know its the current draw that determines the actual Vf at a given
> setting, but maybe installing a switchable dropping resistor will help get
> a more accurate reading...
>
> dave
Dave,
All tube testers I have seen so far have some means to compensate for
varying line voltage and varying filament current. One I picked up the
other day has a pot between the 100 and 130 volt primary tap with the
line voltage connected to the slider. To compensate for line/load
variations, this pot is varied to obtain a calibrated meter reading. A
small variac on the primary is probably a better solution, though more
costly, unless you can scrounge one. Perhaps some of the better testers
do it this way. Anyway, unless the unit is internally regulated, which
most aren't, some means is needed to compensate for line/load variations
in order to get accurate, repeatable measurements. It might be
worthwhile to add a couple of test points to monitor the filament
voltage with an accurate meter if you suspect your tester.
I came across a 45 the other day that acted very strange. It was
exceedingly sensitive to filament voltage setting, far more than a
typical weak tube normally is. It worked well, near 100 percent
reading, at the three volt setting, but went down to about 30 percent at
2.5 volts. Many tubes that are weak will increase their reading when
the filament voltage is increased to the next setting, but I had never
seen one do so nearly to this degree. It had been checked and declared
good by another party on a cheapie tester. I routinely vary the
filament voltage up and down a notch, or so, when testing a tube for
this seems to be a good means to determine the condition of the
emitting surface. A new or good tube will drop off only a few percent
at the next lower setting and go up a few percent at the next higher
setting while a cathode/filament that is nearing the end of its useful
life may read nearly full value, but will drop significantly, say 20 or
30 percent, or so, when reduced from 6.3 to 5 volts, or so. Some
testers have a life-test switch that accomplishes this. If yet nearer
the end of its useful life it may read low, say, 40 or 50 percent and
then read much higher at the next higher filament voltage setting. I
guess these are partly assumptions on my part, not having really
statistically proven it, but I have noticed this numerous times and tend
to feel more warm and fuzzy about a tube that varies little when the
filament voltage is turned up or down a notch. Also, occasionally a
tube will test higher at a lower-than-rated filament voltage. I have
notice this more on sweep tubes with very heavy-duty cathodes. They may
work quite well with filament voltage reduced from 6.3 down to 4.2
volts. One in a batch of eight I was testing a while back actually
tested substantially stronger at a filament voltage of around 4 volts.
I guess I really don't fully understand this. I believe this subject
was discussed here a while back, but I do not recall that it was
satisfactorily resolved. Maybe I was asleep at the switch and missed
it.
While we are on the subject of tube testers, I've been thinking about
rigging up some kind of tester for some time that would allow
tube-manual operating conditions to be easily duplicated. Most testers
I have messed with are a bit of a mystery if the test-condition
switch-settings are not provided, and still you never know for sure what
you are getting for test conditions. I have several testers, but was a
bit loathe to sacrifice one of them for parts. Fortuitiously, I came
across an EICO Model 667 tester the other day for twenty bucks, so I
snagged it. As a bonus, it had all the paperwork including the
schematic, etc. The parts in this unit are of very typical EICO-Kit
quality, not as good as the better tube testers like Hickock, Jackson,
etc., but what tweaked my interest was how this particular model was
configured. It has a row of 13, 6 position lever switches. Each switch
relates to that specific pin number (13 is for the plate lead) of each
test socket while each switch position connects a specific tube element
into the test circuit. They also allow grounding or open circuit to any
tube pin. SO a tube can be set up from the tube manual data. This
makes it ideal to modify for such a tester as I had envisioned. Also,
it can test either side of a twin element tube without changing the
settings. To accomplish this it has a row of 13 push buttons which
connects the desired plate to the meter circuit when depressed. The
maximum plate test voltage is only 180 volts, but I am in the process of
checking out, and getting operational, a regulated, metered, variable
high voltage bench supply for the test bench. It is variable from 0 to
500 volts at 200 ma and has a variable 0 to -150 bias supply. So it
would not take a great deal of effort to install a connector to jeep in
external voltages. I thought that I might also add some meter jacks and
a selector switch so a digital voltmeter/ammeter can conveniently be
connected to accurately monitor all test voltages. Of course the next
step would be to add a few bells and whistles to display the tube plate
curves on the scope and maybe add a calibrated means to monitor a
dynamic test input/output signal to accomploish very precise
transconductance measurements. I also fancy further modifications to
allow two independant tubes (maybe by sacrificing some of the 12 pin
and other unused sockets) to be tested with a means to display both sets
of plate curves for very precise matching capability. Well, it sounds
like a fun project and my intentions are good, but we will see how long
it takes me to get around to actually doing it.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: slagle@dtlweb.com
Subject: tester filament voltage
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:59:43 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n134
I was playing with some alleged weak 45's on my tester and they tested fine
on the 3V setting but weak on the 2.5V setting.... a quick check showed me
that when set to 2.5V there was 2.1V and the 3V setting gave me 2.6V....
moving on in order to get 5V on a 3A filament i had to go past the 6.3 to
the 7.5V setting to get 4.9V.....
I know its the current draw that determines the actual Vf at a given
setting, but maybe installing a switchable dropping resistor will help get
a more accurate reading...
dave
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: tester filament voltage
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:13:08 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n135
slagle@dtlweb.com wrote:
> I was playing with some alleged weak 45's on my tester and they tested fine
> on the 3V setting but weak on the 2.5V setting.... a quick check showed me
> that when set to 2.5V there was 2.1V and the 3V setting gave me 2.6V....
>
> moving on in order to get 5V on a 3A filament i had to go past the 6.3 to
> the 7.5V setting to get 4.9V.....
>
> I know its the current draw that determines the actual Vf at a given
> setting, but maybe installing a switchable dropping resistor will help get
> a more accurate reading...
>
> dave
>
Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> All tube testers I have seen so far have some means to compensate for
> varying line voltage and varying filament current. One I picked up the
> other day has a pot between the 100 and 130 volt primary tap with the
> line voltage connected to the slider. To compensate for line/load
> variations, this pot is varied to obtain a calibrated meter reading. A
> small variac on the primary is probably a better solution, though more
> costly, unless you can scrounge one. Perhaps some of the better testers
> do it this way. Anyway, unless the unit is internally regulated, which
> most aren't, some means is needed to compensate for line/load variations
> in order to get accurate, repeatable measurements. It might be
> worthwhile to add a couple of test points to monitor the filament
> voltage with an accurate meter if you suspect your tester.
>
I have this exact problem with my Hickok 533A. Even when the line adjust is set to the
propoer value, the filament voltage is low, even with tubes that don't draw much filament
current (like the 1G4GT, which only draws 50mA!).
Anybody have any bright ideas on how to correct this?
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: Dale.Simon@ps.net
Subject: Re[2]: tester filament voltage
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:36:00 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n135
Speaking of tube testers, Glass Audio 5/97 had an article about
a home built tester to check for leakages in tubes. Pretty
simple unit. It consists of a bunch of batteries, a meter,
switches for each pin, and a meter to read the leakages. Any
one try this?
Dale
=========================================================================
From: "Bastien Bouchard" <bastienb@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: tester filament voltage
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:08:22 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n136
> I have this exact problem with my Hickok 533A. Even when the line adjust
is set to the
> propoer value, the filament voltage is low, even with tubes that don't
draw much filament
> current (like the 1G4GT, which only draws 50mA!).
>
> Anybody have any bright ideas on how to correct this?
Why not simply turn the filament switch one or two steps further until you
get the right voltage? On my Stark, 3 volt on the filament switch means 2,5
v on the 2A3 fil... wich give a reading reflecting perfectly the real
condition of the tube in term of transconductance (when you set correctly
the "line" adjustment) .
Bastien
=========================================================================
From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: TEST (Fixing the List)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:57:23 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n436
TEST
- -----Original Message-----
>Dummy line 1
=========================================================================
From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: TEST (Fixing the List)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:31:33 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n436
>TEST
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>
>>Dummy line 1
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: Test,ignore
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:19:50 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n022
Test,please ignore
Ed Coleman, Transition Coordinator, Oak Harbor School District, Oak Harbor
Wa. M.Ed. Vocational Special Needs.U.W. Collector of vacuum tube stuff,It's
time to pick basil and get the firewood put away!loves being on his bike
,supporter of Habitat for Humanity,belives in ZPG.Residing in the galaxy of
Marci,Orbiting 'round the dual suns Evan and Brendan Ameluxen Coleman.
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: Test ,ignore
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:29:18 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n047
Ed Coleman,M.ED.University of Washington.Transition Coordinator,Oak Harbor
School District,Oak Harbor Wa.USA.
Supporter of Habitat of Humanity and ZPG.Orbiting in the universe of
Marci,shining in the light of the dual sons Evan and Brendan Ameluxen
Coleman
Pick that basil,get that firwood split and stacked! It's back to school!
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: TEST,ignore
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:13:43 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n056
Ed Coleman, Transition Coordinator, Oak Harbor School District, Oak Harbor
Wa. M.Ed. Vocational Special Needs.U.W. Collector of vacuum tube stuff,It's
time to pick basil and get the firewood put away!loves being on his bike
,supporter of Habitat for Humanity,belives in ZPG.Residing in the galaxy of
Marci,Orbiting 'round the dual suns Evan and Brendan Ameluxen Coleman.
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: Test? ignore
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:40:04 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n149
Test
Ed Coleman, Transition Coordinator, Oak Harbor School District, Oak Harbor
Wa. M.Ed. Vocational Special Needs.U.W. Collector of vacuum tube
stuff,loves being on his bike ,supporter of Habitat for Humanity,belives in
ZPG.Residing in the galaxy of Marci,Orbiting 'round the dual suns Evan and
Brendan Ameluxen Coleman.
Slugs crawling up the window,winter in the northwest!
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: Test? ignore
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:07:15 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n247
Ed Coleman,M.ED.University of Washington.Transition Coordinator,Oak Harbor
School District,Oak Harbor Wa.USA.
Supporter of Habitat of Humanity and ZPG.Orbiting in the universe of Marci
O.T.R.,shining in the light of the dual sons Evan and Brendan Ameluxen
Coleman
Slugs crawling to the garden!,spring in the northwest!
=========================================================================
From: Albert Tan <albert@audiophile.com>
Subject: Test: Ignore
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:55:07 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n297
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: test-ignore
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:16:51 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n364
On 29 Jul 98 Reid Welch said:
> Subject: test-ignore
Hey, welcome back Reid.
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: test-ignore
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:06:46 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n364
r
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: test-ignore
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:04:55 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n365
On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:16:51 -0800, "Ken Dangerfield"
<bpyakd@mail.island.net> wrote:
>On 29 Jul 98 Reid Welch said:
>
>> Subject: test-ignore
>
>Hey, welcome back Reid.
Yes, indeed, I second that welcome!
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@shwd.com>
Subject: test-ignore
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 15:48:15 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n379
ignore
=========================================================================
From: Cuno Snoeren <c.snoeren@tip.nl>
Subject: test ignore
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 07:29:03 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n381
I am on a new server and some mails are not received
=========================================================================
From: Cuno Snoeren <c.snoeren@tip.nl>
Subject: test ignore
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 07:39:22 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n381
this is a test on the old server, the new one won't work
=========================================================================
From: "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
Subject: testing 1 2 3
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:09:42 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n496
sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: Testing 1, 2, 3... Is this thing on?
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:25:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n561
Hi,
If you are reading this then Jeremy's help has worked. Thanks, J.
I got bounced out of my new email address on New Years day because I had
not dotted all the "T's" correclly on the sign-up form....No warning - just
off. Thanks Compuserve! And then had problems getting back onto JoeNet with
my new-new email address.
Sorry if I had posed various people questions and then appeared to not
answer - I couldn't access JoeNet so I never got your replies.
And I just cannot seem to get the _www.io.com/~ftp/mailing-lists/sound-dig_
address to work for me. Seems like it's set up backwards so you have to
wade through three years worth of files to get to todays one. Or is it just
me and my newbie Internet skills?
So, for better or for worse, I'm back (again).
Allen (Vacuum State Electronics)
=========================================================================
From: Robert Root <rrjlife@earthlink.net>
Subject: testing
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:35:53 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Testing...
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:25:06 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Testing to see if it lives...
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: Lancelot Dow <dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Testing...
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 11:50:25 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Testing to see if it lives...
S.G.
Seems to be. But it's mighty quiet.
Lance
=========================================================================
From: BART <bartonw@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RE: Testing...
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:09:34 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n002
Where is everybody?
Bart
bartonw@ozemail.com.au
2 Rosemount Ave., Summer Hill, N.S.W 2130, Australia
612 98081475
- ----------
From: Lancelot Dow[SMTP:dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 26 August 1997 21:50
To: sound@mail.tpoint.net; gesic@cdc.net
Subject: Re: Testing...
Testing to see if it lives...
S.G.
Seems to be. But it's mighty quiet.
Lance
=========================================================================
From: Bert Doppenberg <lowther@wxs.nl>
Subject: Testing..............
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:39:09 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n182
Sorry for the bandwidth.....
- --
Greetings,
Bert Doppenberg -> lowther@wxs.nl ->
http://home.wxs.nl/~lowther/home.htm
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@fooey.blackrock.com>
Subject: TESTING: check, 1, 2, 3, 4...
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:39:39 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n379
...4, 3, 2, 1
This completes this test.
Appologies for the interruption....
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: TESTING: check, 1, 2, 3, 4...
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 09:17:08 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n380
If this had been a real emergency, you would have been advised to grab
your "records to die for" and head for the hills ;-)
>>> "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@fooey.blackrock.com> 08/06/98
03:39pm >>>
...4, 3, 2, 1
This completes this test.
Appologies for the interruption....
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: "King" <drwkng@netvigator.com>
Subject: Testing equipment
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:56:52 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n319
Does anyone on the joe list have experiences on the Audiomatica's CLIO testing PC board or anyone ot
her similar equipment and the cost of these?
TIA
Regards
King
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: testing, please ignore
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:32:47 -0600 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n480
testing
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:14:07 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n434
Yeah, me too. I tried twice today to contribute some comments to Richard
Jones' and Dr. Campbell's posts, and it did not post to *my* mailbox, at any
rate. Verrrrrrrry very strange, as I am getting all other mail from the list.
I'm sure it's an internet traffic jam affecting stuff coming from wherever AOL
routes my mail through . . .
So maybe they did post, but just not to me for some reason? Can anyone tell
me? Thanks.
Best,
Anna
=========================================================================
From: Andrej Deticek <andrej.deticek@siol.net>
Subject: Re: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 19:38:36 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n434
Hello,
I sent a test message addressed to joenet 10 hours ago and it has not
appeared on the net, that is, it has not post yet to my mailbox...
I wanted to try this, because I have been receiving all the messages,
which have appeared on the digest.
Now I am emailing this test message as a reply to another message, and I
am probably going to get this message into my mailbox.
Andrej Deticek
AnnaLogg@aol.com wrote:
>
> Yeah, me too. I tried twice today to contribute some comments to Richard
> Jones' and Dr. Campbell's posts, and it did not post to *my* mailbox, at any
> rate. Verrrrrrrry very strange, as I am getting all other mail from the list.
> I'm sure it's an internet traffic jam affecting stuff coming from wherever AOL
> routes my mail through . . .
>
> So maybe they did post, but just not to me for some reason? Can anyone tell
> me? Thanks.
>
> Best,
> Anna
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:12:01 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n435
Thanks Jeff -- and, if this makes the list, also to all who responded.
So you're having the same problem? This is quite exasperating, isn't it? Now,
I just did a "reply to all" to see if this reply will post to the list. I
only got one in my mailbox and I'm pretty sure that's the personal address
copy, not the list copy --
Sheesh!
Anna
=========================================================================
From: Andrej Deticek <andrej.deticek@siol.net>
Subject: Re: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:02:24 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n435
Yes, my reply message came into my mailbox in about an hour time from
being posted.
Andrej
_________________________________________________________________________________
Andrej Deticek wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I sent a test message addressed to joenet 10 hours ago and it has not
> appeared on the net, that is, it has not post yet to my mailbox...
> I wanted to try this, because I have been receiving all the messages,
> which have appeared on the digest.
> Now I am emailing this test message as a reply to another message, and I
> am probably going to get this message into my mailbox.
>
> Andrej Deticek
>
> AnnaLogg@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, me too. I tried twice today to contribute some comments to Richard
> > Jones' and Dr. Campbell's posts, and it did not post to *my* mailbox, at any
> > rate. Verrrrrrrry very strange, as I am getting all other mail from the list.
> > I'm sure it's an internet traffic jam affecting stuff coming from wherever AOL
> > routes my mail through . . .
> >
> > So maybe they did post, but just not to me for some reason? Can anyone tell
> > me? Thanks.
> >
> > Best,
> > Anna
=========================================================================
From: "Jeff Brouwer"<jbrouwer@mail.crc.com>
Subject: Re: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 08:57:50 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n435
Hi Anna,
I'm replying to both you and the list, we'll see if either gets
through as I haven't been able to post either. I did not see either
of the other two posts you mentioned.
-jeff
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
Author: <AnnaLogg@aol.com > at Internet
Date: 9/30/98 9:14 PM
Yeah, me too. I tried twice today to contribute some comments to Richard
Jones' and Dr. Campbell's posts, and it did not post to *my* mailbox, at any
rate. Verrrrrrrry very strange, as I am getting all other mail from the list.
I'm sure it's an internet traffic jam affecting stuff coming from wherever AOL
routes my mail through . . .
So maybe they did post, but just not to me for some reason? Can anyone tell
me? Thanks.
Best,
Anna
=========================================================================
From: Andrej Deticek <andrej.deticek@siol.net>
Subject: Re: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 12:47:48 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n435
Yet this (reply) message needed 15 hours to arrive into my mailbox....
And, checking on the digest list, one of my original postings from two
days ago has never made it into my mailbox, neither at the sound-digest
list.
Andrej Deticek
Andrej Deticek wrote:
>
> Yes, my reply message came into my mailbox in about an hour time from
> being posted.
>
> Andrej
>
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:21:51 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n436
Hi Jeff,
I saw this and Anna's posts over the last couple days. The message below
was addressed to both the list and to Anna personally, don't know if that
makes anyy difference.
BTW to the whole list. I haven't been having any problems seeing peoples
posts (although I haven't tried to post anything recently). I, however,
use the ancient PINE mail system here at work. Wonder if that has anything
to do with it.
Cheers
Richard Nevill
On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Jeff Brouwer wrote:
>
> Hi Anna,
>
> I'm replying to both you and the list, we'll see if either gets
> through as I haven't been able to post either. I did not see either
> of the other two posts you mentioned.
>
> -jeff
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: Testing, Testing, 1 ... 2 ... 3
> Author: <AnnaLogg@aol.com > at Internet
> Date: 9/30/98 9:14 PM
>
>
> Yeah, me too. I tried twice today to contribute some comments to Richard
> Jones' and Dr. Campbell's posts, and it did not post to *my* mailbox, at any
> rate. Verrrrrrrry very strange, as I am getting all other mail from the list.
> I'm sure it's an internet traffic jam affecting stuff coming from wherever AOL
> routes my mail through . . .
>
> So maybe they did post, but just not to me for some reason? Can anyone tell
> me? Thanks.
>
> Best,
> Anna
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Richard A. Francis" <rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Test joke
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:41:17 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n430
Q. What did they find on Monica's dress?
A. A wad of Bill's.
This is only a test joke. If this were a real joke, it might have been
one you haven't heard.
Rick Francis, rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Test joke
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:04:08 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n431
In a message dated 98-09-26 08:52:54 EDT, rfranci@uoft03.utoledo.edu writes:
> This is only a test joke. If this were a real joke, it might have been
> one you haven't heard.
>
It also might have been funny. ;-)
Best,
Very Bored Anna
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@shwd.com>
Subject: TEST JOKE, OTHER STUFF
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:30:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n433
Q : What does "lewinsky" mean, translated from its native Russian?
A : Humidor.
Well, one thing I can say for certain that it was nice to be missed on
the list. I have been laid up since 9/15 with pneumonia, just got back
to work and email today. Let me tell y'all something : daytime TV is
Clinton's natural medium, he fits right in with the rest of them.
I have absolutely no idea why new threads are getting through less
frequently than replies : is it possibly a red herring, i.e., the new
messages coincidentally are setting off the shunting mechanism I spoke
about in an earlier post?
Be logical, is my best advice. Look at the "To :" address on missing
posts, look for words that may be "adminstrative" in the subject and
first 5 lines, compare these to your posts that ARE getting through.
One thing I reccomend to everyone who is having any trouble posting :
send email to :
majordomo@lists.io.com
consisting of :
who sound
in the body. You will get back a list of everyone who is subscribed to
JoeNet. Check it to make sure you are subscribed the way you think you
should be. I _think_ the problem caused by the parsing of unexpectedly
modified email addresses is fixed but I am not 100% confident since
there are still lots of problems.
Perhaps mailing-list distribution is a lower priority process for io.com
than other types of traffic like reading The Starr, and our pony express
was hijacked for a few days by the Washington highwaymen?
AUDIO DIY CONTENT :
I had the opportunity while I was stuck at home to tidy up the grounding
of my "Bob D's Octal Phono Preamp" a bit. I had some 2-conductor,
foil-shielded cable so I did the following :
At the input end of the cable, I attached one wire to the "hot"
connection, and the shield and the second wire to the outer connection.
The jacks are isolated via nylon washers from the chassis.
The "hot" wire I ran to the grid of the first tube. The shield I left
unconnected, and the second conductor I ran directly to the bottom of
the cathode resistor of the same tube. A seperate wire connects this
point to star ground.
All star grounds in the audio path run to the same point. All grounds in
the power supply run to another point. These two are connected at the
spot where the last filter cap is also grounded. The chassis is grounded
via its mechanical connection to the power transformer, and the safety
ground also runs to that point.
I checked the preamp with the audio ground disconnected from the
PS/chassis ground. Hum was really bad. I did not yet try using a 100 ohm
resistor between these points, but I will do so sometime, it will be
easy the way I wired it. When I directly connected these two grounds, I
found that I had reduced hum a bit compared to where I started.
I am SO happy with my no-sand sound. I put on Cannonball Adderley's
"Flamingo" one evening and that was absolutely the definition of
"sublime." And you haven't heard Bo Diddley kicking serious ass until
you've heard him kicking serious ass through tubes. My system is
definitely at an all time peak from the standpoint of making music
involving, entertaining, and alive.
Bring it to Jerome!
- -j
- --
=====================================
Jeremy Epstein .... jepstein@shwd.com
=====================================
=========================================================================
From: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
Subject: *test, just delete
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 20:46:05 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n182
test
=========================================================================
From: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
Subject: test, just delete this!
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:23:01 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n122
- --
HOME OF
Tractrix Horns, Tube Amps,
Fieldcoil Loudspeakers and Computer Graphics
http://home5.inet.tele.dk/f-hammer/
=========================================================================
From: "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
Subject: Test message - don't bother
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:00:46 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n252
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x
Blackie
blackie@tubesville.com
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: test message-ignore
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:17:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
just wondering if my preevious post went up today...
Reid
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: test message-ignore
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 00:04:37 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
>On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:17:12 -0400, "Reid Welch"
><rewelch@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>just wondering if my preevious post went up today...
>
>This one?
>
>>How does the DCR of copper change with temperature?...
>
>--dnb
It was about buzzing chokes. I've mailed it three times now, each time as a
new post but it hasn't appeared so far.
Reid
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: test message-ignore
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 01:12:54 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:17:12 -0400, "Reid Welch"
<rewelch@earthlink.net> wrote:
>just wondering if my preevious post went up today...
This one?
>How does the DCR of copper change with temperature?...
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: test message-ignore
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:41:43 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 00:04:37 -0400, "Reid Welch"
<rewelch@earthlink.net> wrote:
>It was about buzzing chokes. I've mailed it three times now, each time as a
>new post but it hasn't appeared so far.
Are you sending them to sound@io.com or sound@deliverator.io.com? The
latter is always more reliable.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: test message-ignore
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:23:05 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
- ----------
> From: David Barnett <davidbarnett@aristotle.net>
> To: Reid Welch <rewelch@earthlink.net>; sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: test message-ignore
> Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 2:41 AM
>
> On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 00:04:37 -0400, "Reid Welch"
> <rewelch@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >It was about buzzing chokes. I've mailed it three times now, each time
as a
> >new post but it hasn't appeared so far.
>
> Are you sending them to sound@io.com or sound@deliverator.io.com? The
> latter is always more reliable.
>
> --dnb
Should be sound@lists.io.com or sound@deliverator.io.com
Johari Yip
[ hfyip@pacific.net.sg ]
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: test message-ignore
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:34:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n423
If this goes up, why does nothing else? I better write to Joe!
Reid
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: Test (Off topic)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:19:15 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
Lynn T. Olson wrote:
>
> >CNN was reporting 300,000 hits per hour on its web site yesterday morning.
> >
> >You mention a cigar, and the whole damn country comes to a screeching halt.
>
> You'd think with all the tons of porno on the internet a cigar would be
> small potatoes (or a tuber to make sure the post is on-topic).
>
> (Hey, no posts about kinky uses for vacuum tubes! The health hazards of
> improper cigar use are bad enough.)
>
> Lynn T. Olson
> Editor, Valve & Tube News
> E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
> Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
Testing. Testing.Off topic: Political cartoon I saw the other day:
Ken Starr saying "what this country needs is a $40 milliom cigar."
Also on public radio, a Constitutional legal expert saying, there are no
fiscal limits to what Starr (or other of the same) can spend, also he
is running without supervision! Thirdly, the Fed has said today that
the budget is (if I recall it) some $30 billion surplus this year!
The three items taken together scares me. Just hope the White House
pooch (Buddy) didn't lift his leg on the Oval Office carpet, or there
goes Starr spending another 10 Million or so...
Sorry,
Got carried away.
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Test (Off topic)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:43:31 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
>Testing. Testing.Off topic: Political cartoon I saw the other day:
>Ken Starr saying "what this country needs is a $40 milliom cigar."
>Also on public radio, a Constitutional legal expert saying, there are no
>fiscal limits to what Starr (or other of the same) can spend, also he
>is running without supervision! Thirdly, the Fed has said today that
>the budget is (if I recall it) some $30 billion surplus this year!
>The three items taken together scares me. Just hope the White House
>pooch (Buddy) didn't lift his leg on the Oval Office carpet, or there
>goes Starr spending another 10 Million or so...
>
>Sorry,
>Got carried away.
>Joe Pledger
<Off topic!> Hey, there's an idea to squander our children's inheritance
... spend the entire budget surplus on investigating every single member of
Congress, the Supreme Court, and the press. By the time it was over, we
could appoint a Ministry of Morality, install MoM TV cameras in every
bedroom, and declare ourselves a theocracy.
Or we could assume that people in government are screw-ups, just like the
rest of us, and get back to bashing Andy Burlap.
Lynn T. Olson
Editor, Valve & Tube News
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Test (Off topic)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:15:59 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
This is only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, you're not really reading this are
you? only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test...
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Test (Off topic)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:41:50 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
Joe Pledger wrote:
> Just hope the White House
> pooch (Buddy) didn't lift his leg on the Oval Office carpet, or there
> goes Starr spending another 10 Million or so...
What for? A DNA analysis to prove it wasn't Hillary?
Christian
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Test (Off topic)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:09:31 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
This wasn't a test, but rather a wallpaper. Christian ;^)
David Barnett wrote:
> This is only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, you're not really reading this are
> you? only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only
> a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a
> test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test,
> only a test, only a test, only a test, only a test...
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: Re: Test (Off topic)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:56:33 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n428
At 09:41 AM 9/23/98 +0200, Christian Rintelen wrote:
>
>
>Joe Pledger wrote:
>
>> Just hope the White House
>> pooch (Buddy) didn't lift his leg on the Oval Office carpet, or there
>> goes Starr spending another 10 Million or so...
>
>What for? A DNA analysis to prove it wasn't Hillary?
>
>Christian
>
>Ok A little corn ..... hillary has changed her name to Ms Sharon Peter
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Test (Off topic)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:49:56 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n429
On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:41:50 +0200, Christian Rintelen
<rintelen@datacomm.ch> wrote:
>What for? A DNA analysis to prove it wasn't Hillary?
I didn't know that bitches marked their territory too....
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "alfred trower" <sedht@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: test only
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:17:23 PST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n146
Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu> wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Owen Young wrote:
>
>> test only, 30 Dec, 13:42hrs
>
>Wow! And I received it on the 29th! Your test was quite effective.
>
>Kal
Judging from your response, you seem time-zonally challanged ;-).
Al
Alfred Trower
Consultant, Client/Server Systems
Supply Chain Specialist
- ----------------------------------
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to
those who cannot fly." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: test only
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:49:21 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n146
On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Owen Young wrote:
> test only, 30 Dec, 13:42hrs
Wow! And I received it on the 29th! Your test was quite effective.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: test only
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:18:01 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n146
On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, alfred trower wrote:
> Kalman Rubinson <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Owen Young wrote:
> >
> >> test only, 30 Dec, 13:42hrs
> >
> >Wow! And I received it on the 29th! Your test was quite effective.
>
> Judging from your response, you seem time-zonally challanged ;-).
No, it's how we stay on the cutting edge. ;-0
Kal
=========================================================================
From: "Owen Young" <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: test only
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:42:23 -1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n146
test only, 30 Dec, 13:42hrs
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Test only... trash me..
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 22:39:45 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n527
=========================================================================
From: Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
Subject: test - please delete
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:38:30 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n180
- --
Pete Drake
peterd@ndsuk.com
=========================================================================
From: "Graham Ingle" <blackcat.e@virgin.net>
Subject: Test .Please delete
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:55:42 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n195
blackcat electronics
blackcat.e@virgin.net
tel/fax (+44) 01253 855294 UK
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: test !! please delete
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:12:29 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n198
this is a test!! please ignore and delete
=========================================================================
From: "Graham Ingle" <blackcat.e@virgin.net>
Subject: test please delete
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:47:29 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n427
blackcat electronics
mailto: blackcat.e@virgin.net
tel/fax +44 (0)1253 855294 UK
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@bfm.com>
Subject: TEST -- PLEASE IGNORE
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:57:04 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
TESTING, testing
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Test-please ignore
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:21:51 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n003
Test.
Joe Pledger
doodle@navicom.com
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Test,please ignore
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:09:40 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n003
Testing.
Joe Pledger
doodle@navicom.com
=========================================================================
From: ecoleman@whidbey.net (Ed Coleman)
Subject: test ,please ignore
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 06:07:39 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n048
Test
Ed Coleman,M.ED.University of Washington.Transition Coordinator,Oak Harbor
School District,Oak Harbor Wa.USA.
Supporter of Habitat of Humanity and ZPG.Orbiting in the universe of
Marci,shining in the light of the dual sons Evan and Brendan Ameluxen
Coleman
Pick that basil,get that firwood split and stacked! It's back to school!
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: test please ignore
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:38:17 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n220
test test
=========================================================================
From: Ed Faulkner <efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: test, please ignore...
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:21:01 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n349
=========================================================================
From: steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
Subject: test - please ignore
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n360
i said ignore this ;-)
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: Test:Please ignore
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:19:17 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n412
Test
=========================================================================
From: Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
Subject: Test - please ignore
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 15:43:43 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n414
- --
Pete Drake
peterd@ndsuk.com
http://www.ndsworld.com
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Test: Please ignore.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:19:45 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
Please ignore. It's just me again.
Reid
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
>Behalf Of Johari Yip
>Sent: Monday, September 14, 1998 5:25 AM
>To: sound@deliverator.io.com
>Subject: Test: Please ignore.
>
>
>I told you to ignore, didn't I?
>
>Johari Yip
>[ hfyip@pacific.net.sg ]
>
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Test: Please ignore.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:24:55 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
I told you to ignore, didn't I?
Johari Yip
[ hfyip@pacific.net.sg ]
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: TEST - PLEASE IGNORE/DELETE
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:17:21 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n417
Well I did say ignore it!!!!
Dr Simon Busbridge
Department of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: TEST - PLEASE IGNORE/DELETE
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n418
On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Simon Busbridge wrote:
> Well I did say ignore it!!!!
Like an itch! ;-)
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Cameron McLean <cameron.m@clear.net.nz>
Subject: test. plse ignore
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 19:36:23 PDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n022
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@shwd.com>
Subject: Test Post from a digest subscriber- ignore
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:35:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n377
Ignore please
- --
=====================================
Jeremy Epstein .... jepstein@shwd.com
=====================================
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com>
Subject: test - sorry
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:57:56 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n216
test from rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com
=========================================================================
From: "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
Subject: test test test
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:07:05 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n496
aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com>
Subject: test -what i did
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:26:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n181
jeez,
trying to work from home again.
i think i got my e-mail working properly.
from home, i'm not removing messages from the server.
i'll see these messages back at work tomorrow...
however, it seems that a few messages that i sent
might not have gotten thru...
did anyone get my "what i did" from 2/1?
don't want to re-type, but i discussed
a couple of pp 6y6 pentode amps
and some more impressions of my se sv572-3 amp...
either it didn't get out
or no-one is interested in pp pentode amps ... ;(
maybe that frank filter got me ;)
in which case, this message will be similarly intercepted...
never mind....
here goes nothing...
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: test -what i did
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:49:51 +0000 (GMT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n181
Got it, Bob. Your posts are always interesting. If only I could keep
up with your speed!!!!
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
Department of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk
"..biology is what you do when you don't have the maths for real
science.." (sliders)
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com>
Subject: Re: test -what i did
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 16:31:04 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n182
Simon Busbridge wrote:
>
> Got it, Bob. Your posts are always interesting. If only I could keep
> up with your speed!!!!
>
> Simon
>
> Dr Simon Busbridge
> Department of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering
> University of Brighton
> Lewes Road
> Moulsecoomb
> Brighton BN2 4GJ
> UNITED KINGDOM
>
> Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
> Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
> e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk
>
> "..biology is what you do when you don't have the maths for real
> science.." (sliders)
hi simon,
thanks for the reply!
i'm not sure if it's "speed"
or a short attention span....
i got too many ideas floating up in my head. once i get one out
and build something i get tired of it and move on...
did i mention a screen driven svetlana el509 amp that i'm
thinking of. (see haven't really done all i can do with the
6y6 amps)
so it's not really a <good thing>... ;(
i think if i had more time, i'd get even LESS done....
take care!
bob.d
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: test -what i did
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:48:05 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n182
At 16:31 04/02/1998 -0500, bob.d wrote:
>did i mention a screen driven svetlana el509 amp that i'm
>thinking of. (see haven't really done all i can do with the
>6y6 amps)
When you are on the point to begin something on that screen driven amp,
please tell us, I am interested to share ideas on that subject (the
weaknesses of the Tim de Paravicini screen driven amp...).
I am currently gathering parts to build a high power version of my Shabda
amplifier (direct coupled, 19 watts, using a screen driven HF 75 watts
tetrode). That new amplifier will use a 813 (hope it will deliver around 50
watts). Our german friend Bodo Kalthoff is working on a similar project too.
Also I have nearly all the parts to build a PP amplifier, it will use the
same tube that my Shabda amplifier (a european tube only build for few
french administrations for what I know, it possess 3mm thick graphite
plates, in triode mode curves better than the 300B, same gain, internal
resistance a little bit lower) , but I have to improve the phase invertor
(when I'll finish to twek my "Minor Swing" headphone amplifier).
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h.
=========================================================================
From: Bob Danielak <rdaniela@ew.lmms.lmco.com>
Subject: Re: test -what i did
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:01:21 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n183
Le Cleac'h J.-M. wrote:
>
> At 16:31 04/02/1998 -0500, bob.d wrote:
>
> >did i mention a screen driven svetlana el509 amp that i'm
> >thinking of. (see haven't really done all i can do with the
> >6y6 amps)
>
> When you are on the point to begin something on that screen driven amp,
> please tell us, I am interested to share ideas on that subject (the
> weaknesses of the Tim de Paravicini screen driven amp...).
>
> I am currently gathering parts to build a high power version of my Shabda
> amplifier (direct coupled, 19 watts, using a screen driven HF 75 watts
> tetrode). That new amplifier will use a 813 (hope it will deliver around 50
> watts). Our german friend Bodo Kalthoff is working on a similar project too.
>
> Also I have nearly all the parts to build a PP amplifier, it will use the
> same tube that my Shabda amplifier (a european tube only build for few
> french administrations for what I know, it possess 3mm thick graphite
> plates, in triode mode curves better than the 300B, same gain, internal
> resistance a little bit lower) , but I have to improve the phase invertor
> (when I'll finish to twek my "Minor Swing" headphone amplifier).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h.
hello jean-michel!
i have begun to cut metal on this amp.
(i don't do "breadboards" per se. mounting transformers and tube
sockets in a nice box won't go to waste. think about how many
amps you can build with a decent power supply and two
9-pin and two octal-sized sockets...)
i did some preliminary designs on this amp and i'm leaning toward
using a svetlana el509 (very impressive tube. very heavy-duty!).
using a 6bm8 as a driver. triode gain stage direct-coupled
to the pentode stage as a cathode follower...
this direct coupled to the screen of the el509/6kg6.
what do you think about my idea of using some cathode bias
on the el509 to allow screen potential of about 150V to be used?
without some negative bias the screen sensitivity is so high
that you can't put more than about 25Vdc on the screen without
overdissipating....
this may have its advantages, too. so i was thinking of
a choke-loaded CF driver. using the dcr of the choke to get
about +25V bias to the screen....
maybe i'll post some schematics....
keep in touch
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: <dexter@seel.po.my>
Subject: TETRODE SE PARAFEED..
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:48:51
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n121
Hi,..just wondering how if the SE 2A3 parafeed published in VALVE mag
modified to to use KT88 on the opt stage. the rest remain the same.
KT88 will be adjustable bias.. any suggestion...
regards...
dexter
SO MUCH TO DO WITH TUBES AND MUCH MORE FUN THAN SS!!!!!
LONG LIVE THE VALVE AND SO DO THE BOTTLEHEADS ON JOE-NET.
- --
DEXTER PATRICK
SEEL ELECTRONIC ENG. SDN BHD
15B & 17B JLN. PETALING UTAMA 11
OFF JLN. KLANG LAMA
46000 PETALING JAYA, KUALA LUMPUR
MALAYSIA
TEL : 603 791 1573
603 791 1579
FAX: : 603 793 2308
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Texas style audio extremism! (long)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:22:43 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n145
At 6:46 PM -0500 12/24/97, pitaro@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I was flicking through a friend's mags over the weekend and found this
>letter to the editor. The magazine was a UK rag called "Hi Fi Choice"
>dated February 1991. Enjoy. :) Happy Festive Season to all.
>
>
>Texas style audio extremism!
>----------------------------
LOL, Harry! Thanks for the holiday cheer. Wish it weren't so close to the
truth...! Recently went to hear a system with a friend--too bad one of us
had to stand outside in the hall, since an extra body in the 30'x15' room
threw off the imaging. Same friend went to a guy's house to listen to the
new Von Schweikert speakers. He was treated to a half hour of a woman
screaming (Telarc "Fright Night" CD), a thunder storm and a train passing
through at 105dB. Unfortunately there didn't seem to be any music CDs
handy... But he reports that the screaming sounded terrific.
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Texas style audio extremism! (long)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:46:25 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n145
Hi all,
I was flicking through a friend's mags over the weekend and found this
letter to the editor. The magazine was a UK rag called "Hi Fi Choice"
dated February 1991. Enjoy. :) Happy Festive Season to all.
Texas style audio extremism!
- ----------------------------
For those poor dweebs in audio who have under $50,000 systems, I thought I
would give you a tast of 'The Good Life', as experienced by me with the
help of my near-perfect stereo system. Those of you who think you can get
away with $5,000 systems can move on to the next letter now.
I had been away from home fo three days for a trade show, so I had to
check the system before powering everything up. First, I applied power to
the individual evironmental conditioning units for each system component.
As we all know, each component has an optimal operating temperature, and
this can be achieved only with the most exacting temperature control. I
let the ECUs stabilise for two hours, resulting in a barely-acceptable
temperature fluctuation of about +/- 0.02C. I then powered up the audio
components and allowed another two hours time for restabilising.
Temperature deviation was then +/- 0.04C; thiscan lead to audible problems
as the electrons speed up and slow down in passing from one componendt to
the next, but I was in a hurry and had to suffer with it.
Next up was a check on the liquid nitrogen bath surrounding the D/A
converters. It was a pint low, so I topped it off, accidentally freezing
one finger and breaking it off. Ah, the price one must pay for top-notch
audio! At this point, I noticed that the room humidity was 51 per cent,
one per cent higher than the humidity conditions prevailing at the time of
the recording session.
After replacing the humidifier and recalibrating, things looked a little
brighter. But I recalled that the 0-gauge speaker cables were going on
three weeks old, which would mean that some oxygen might have crept into
the copper. A quick cable check using the ol' electron microscope revealed
copper oxide at 0.0002 per cent by weight, certainly audible to anyone who
knows good audio. So I replaced the cables.
Feeling adventurous, I decided to play a CD. I know, 64 bits and 198 kHz
just isn't enough to capture those subtle nuacnces - the conductor's
stomach grumbling, the wsound of dust in the air conditioner in the next
building - but they *are* convenient. However, as soon as the DC was out
of its temperature controlled box, it hit me! I had forgotten to don my
clean-room suit before touching the CD! Doubtless, millions of dust specks
had floated down onto the disc surface, causing countless correctabe
errors! so I had to put th esucker on the bench and go over it with an
electron microscope again until I had picked all the dust off. It was
worth it, though, to be able to know iwth assurance that there would be
fewer corrected erro4rs. I will admit, however that picking pieces of lint
out of the pits on those little suckers is a challenge.
Finally, the system was warmed up and ready to go. I coated the CD
carefully with the standard Armor-All and Karo syrup coating and slapped
it into the player.First, the calibration run. The airborne robot floated
about in its usual purposeful manner, looking for the sweet spot between
the speakers. Oh, I know that some of you wimps will say: "but doesn't the
sweet spot stay the same, why do you have to look for it each time?"
Pshaw! Change that room temp by 0.1 degree, and tell me if the sweet
spot's moved? It sure has! Some people will never know this, because
they've never heard a system like mine!
Once I had located the spot, I strapped myself into the listening chair,
making sure that my head excursions were limited to no more than 0.05cm in
any direction, assuring a stable stereo image. I pressed "play" on the
remote. Ahhh! A vast 3D sound stage opened before me, stretching
limitlessly in all directions. I could hear the dressing rooms behind the
recording studio with perfect clarity. Reaching out to touch the palpable
violins, I could mite the more strident performers by simply putting my
hand over their instruments. Very Nice!
But, suddenly, an alarm sounded! The magnetic field strength meter
indicated that my across-the-street neighbor had turned on some appliance
which was emitting a magnetic field, upsetting the entire D/A process and
the amplification chain very audibly. Distortion was up to 0.00002 per
cent and signals within 3dB of the noise floor were just horrible. I
activated the auto-dialer with the remote, selctingthe standard "You are
impinging upon my perfect listening environment, please turn off all
electrical devices and stand very still" message for delivery. A minute
later, the nocious magnetic intrusion ceased.
Finally getting a chance to listen to the music, I noticed a certain
quality about the sound that was very audibly imperfect. With a start, I
realized the problem. The sound of the oboists' nose hairs vibrating in
tune with the music was not as finely etched as it should have been. It
took a while, but I located the problem. As I inhaled and exhaled, the
enviornmental control units' power consumption fluctuated wildley
(+/-0.000732W), and this was causing the voltage at the inputs to the
system to vary by as much as 10-13 volts. The results, of course, was an
unacceptable frequency response deviation in the CD playback (down 0.066dB
at 13KHz)....
Larry Spence, Dallas, Texas
- ------------------------
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Th.. and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:00:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n368
I said:
>... I had noted back in 1994 that a 9V alkaline
>tended to get
>> very hot from the charging current of a 6J5, so although it
>sounded good, I
>> didn't take the concept farther. So, what's happening with the cathode
>> battery these days?
John L said:
>Well, a C-cell resides in the cathode of the 5842Q used for my
>line stage. It
>sounds good to me and I haven't changed it for well over a year.
>Thanks for the
>inspiration.
Hey, thanks for the acknowledgment. When the cathode battery became popular
here on the list I made inquiry to Takuji to see whether he'd heard of the
technique. Yes, he said- in Japan it's named "Kotei bias" for the inventor.
Shortly afterwards a joe reader wrote with a friendly offer to pay some sort
of "royalty" to me regarding a $3,000 (!)cathode battery preamp he'd just
built and sold to a recording studio. I refused of course, for even if
there were no "Kotei bias" I wouldn't take a dime for commercial use of
ideas that I introduce on this list.
Speaking of commerce, in my opinion a "whatever.com" real-time mailing list
is no rip-off or dilution of the joelist's glory. For one thing I never
saw Joe use the list for his promotion. Then again, he imposes no rules, not
even of etiquette. As things stand things may be just fine to the majority,
but the joelist often seems to me like a pushy sales tool. Now back to
batteries:
Jean-Michel described his experience with a lithium cathode battery. I
guess I've heard somewhere that lithium cells do not tolerate reverse
current - If so, lithium seems like an unsuitable choice. Pretty cool how
Jean-Michel bypassed the lithium's weaknesses.
Spence chose nicad because nicad "overcharges" harmlessly forever. Of
course, they also discharge during prolonged periods of idleness. Yet the
terminal voltage (biasing potential) rises very quickly again.
Radio Shack sells a new type of nickel hydride rechargeable battery .
Reportedly it holds its charge indefinitely, handling charging current
similarly as well as ni-cad. I haven't auditioned nickel hydride because
"D" cells aren't available quite yet. The store manager said that Radio
Shack is phasing out ni-cads in favor of the nickel-hydride.
best regards,
Reid
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Th.. and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:27:26 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n368
I said:
>... I had noted back in 1994 that a 9V alkaline
>tended to get
>> very hot from the charging current of a 6J5, so although it
>sounded good, I
>> didn't take the concept farther. So, what's happening with the cathode
>> battery these days?
John L said:
>Well, a C-cell resides in the cathode of the 5842Q used for my
>line stage. It
>sounds good to me and I haven't changed it for well over a year.
>Thanks for the
>inspiration.
Hey, thanks for the acknowledgment. When the cathode battery became popular
here on the list I made inquiry to Takuji to see whether he'd heard of the
technique. Yes, he said- in Japan it's named "Kotei bias" for the inventor.
Shortly afterwards a joe reader wrote with a friendly offer to pay some sort
of "royalty" to me regarding a $3,000 (!)cathode battery preamp he'd just
built and sold to a recording studio. I refused of course, for even if
there were no "Kotei bias" I wouldn't take a dime for commercial use of
ideas that I introduce on this list.
Speaking of commerce, in my opinion a "whatever.com" real-time mailing list
is no rip-off or dilution of the joelist's glory. For one thing I never
saw Joe use the list for his promotion. Then again, he imposes no rules, not
even of etiquette. As things stand things may be just fine to the majority,
but the joelist often seems to me like a pushy sales tool. Now back to
batteries:
Jean-Michel described his experience with a lithium cathode battery. I
guess I've heard somewhere that lithium cells do not tolerate reverse
current - If so, lithium seems like an unsuitable choice. Pretty cool how
Jean-Michel bypassed the lithium's weaknesses.
Spence chose nicad because nicad "overcharges" harmlessly forever. Of
course, they also discharge during prolonged periods of idleness. Yet the
terminal voltage (biasing potential) rises very quickly again.
Radio Shack sells a new type of nickel hydride rechargeable battery .
Reportedly it holds its charge indefinitely, handling charging current
similarly as well as ni-cad. I haven't auditioned nickel hydride because
"D" cells aren't available quite yet. The store manager said that Radio
Shack is phasing out ni-cads in favor of the nickel-hydride.
best regards,
Reid
=========================================================================
From: Plaato@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: Th.. and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:42:05 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n368
Reid San wrote-
<<Speaking of commerce, in my opinion a "whatever.com" real-time mailing list
is no rip-off or dilution of the joelist's glory. For one thing I never
saw Joe use the list for his promotion. Then again, he imposes no rules, not
even of etiquette. As things stand things may be just fine to the majority,
but the joelist often seems to me like a pushy sales tool. Now back to
batteries:>>
A while back my 13 year old son, heavily obsessed with computers, suggested
that the Joelist start it's own IRC Chat. He was more than eager to set this
up for everyone.
Henry Platt
=========================================================================
From: andre@indigo.ie (Andre Jute)
Subject: Thanks
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 04:20:58 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Joes
Thanks to all who helped out with monoblocking questions. When I repeated
the setup for the disaster to see for myself, I discovered that the driver
tube surely sparks if you parallel the outputs but is not destroyed. Both
drivers and teenage son are okay.
Definitely Scott for Tubehead of the Year.
Andre
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
Communication Jute
the main index to the pages we support for lovers of classical music, for
writers, and for audiophiles is at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: Ron Steinberg <ca789@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Thanks!
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:03:49 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n106
Thanks to all of those who responded to my request for Koji's e-mail
address. I was able to get in touch with him.
Regards, Ron
======================================================================
Ron Steinberg Photographer <ca789@torfree.net>
Though self employed, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
======================================================================
=========================================================================
From: Aernoud van der Wielen <aernoud@ixe.net>
Subject: Thanks!
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:08:35 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n147
Hi,
Thanks to everybody who responded to my request for
info about Tannoy Studio Monitors. Your experiences
expressed on this list and via private email are
very usefull to me.
I've contacted the local distributer for Tannoy and
received more info and a price-list. The DMT 15's do
carry a hefty price tag but I'am planning
to audition them next year. I'll keep you informed!
Aernoud
=========================================================================
From: Matthew Allen <MDAllen@Madge.com>
Subject: THANKS!
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:46:26 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n574
To everyone who replied to my request regarding
tube kits etc. A big thankyou!!!
I had loads of answers and I appreciate it!
I am also on another subscription group called
analogue0addicts which I know some of you are
members already. It is mainly for discussing
turntable related bits and pieces.
If you are interested send a mail with subscribe as
the title to
list@analogueaddicts.free-online.co.uk
Thanks again and I will let you know how I get on!
One thing I have learned already is the myth of the WATT.
According to some of the calculations I have been
sent a couple of WATTS should be enough for anyone!!
Its rather interesting as built about a year ago a pair
of 150 WATT mosfet monoblocks which I can run nearly flat out.
It just shows how power in reality is a dangerous route to take
and how inefficient solid state can be!!!
Matt
- --------------------------------------------
Dr Matthew Allen, 01753 661725 (Direct)
FORCE Project Group, 01753 661000 (Sboard)
Madge Networks Ltd, 01753 661888 (Fax)
Wexham Springs,
Framewood Road,
Wexham,
Slough SL3 6PJ
- --------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Thanks All
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:12:14 -0400 (AST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n475
Just a quick note to thank all who responded to my plea for help with my
first oscilloscope. I now have plently of material to mull over and try to
fiqure out.
Thanks again
Cheers
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Thanks and sorry and more..
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:36:21 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n289
Joes:
Thanks to all for the welcome back, sorry for so many replies to the
Joenet that should have been private (I'm out of practice, you know) and
now on to the sound related stuff!
I was recently given a Denon DP-51F Direct Drive Servo Tone Arm
Turntable from Hell. It sports a Denon cartridge of unknown persuasion.
The table is in immaculate condition externally but the motor drive is
ill. I intend to repair it, but I want to know if anybody out there has
any experience and/or hearsay to share about the unit.
TIA.
S.G.
=========================================================================
From: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: Thanks for cathode resistor info
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:32:39 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n223
Much thanks to all who gave me good advice and information on measuring and
calculating cathode resistor values and class A operation.
Thanks to your thorough and patient explanantions, I'm (very) slowly getting a few
more handles on the mysteries of tube operation.
I've decided instead a a single operating point that is a compromise for the 45s
and the 2A3s, per Bob D's suggestion, I will install a 500 ohm cathode resistor for
45 operation with a paralleled 1K @ 5w resistor to be switched in for 2A3's. This
will cut the value to 333 ohms, perfect for the 2A3s. Good hot points for both tubes.
Thanks again,
- Ralph
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: thanks for modem info
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:51:13 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n089
Hey all-
the subject says it- Thanks!
JDM
=========================================================================
From: Andre Jute <andre@indigo.ie>
Subject: Thanks for plugging my book
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 02:27:25 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n081
I want to thank Frank Deutschmann, A GRAND GUY, for this opportunity to
plug my books, and in particular my latest, GRIDS.
At 10:26 am -0400 22/10/97, Frank Deutschmann wrote:
>Certainly Andre, as a Self-Proclamimed* "Author"
Proclaimed by thirty or forty books or so (can't be bothered to count),
published by leading houses in three hundred editions in a dozen languages
(round numbers; my assistant, who knows precisely, has gone home). Some are
at http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/TheWritersHouse2.html for you to drool
over some more, Frank. I'll add some new ones when I get time.
*****HOT FLASH*****The graphic designers among you might meanwhile like to
buy a copy of GRIDS, published in the States in February this year (sorry
for not mentioning it here before--I just forgot; a new book being
published isn't a big deal chez Jute for the last ten or fifteen years) by
Watson Guptil, commissioned from me by the leading Swiss house of
Rotovision (the photographers here will already know their beautiful books)
who outbid several American, British and Japanese publishers for the
rights, with the late lamented Jean Koefoed (the father of graphic design
books in the States--he knew Jan Tschichold and other icons of
typographics) as my consulting editor, available from good bookstores and
mailorder merchants everywhere, including Amazon. It includes a disc of
some of the grids underlying my prize-winning designs, for other designers
to use free of copyright. Also available in Chinese, Russian and other
translations; I'm told a rave Russian review is on the net somewhere. (I
would like to thank F. Deutschmann of New York and Havana, A GRAND CICAR!,
and the sponsor of many enduring flame wars on this network, for such a
fine opportunity to plug my book to a bunch of guys with a keen interest in
*what appears on the grid*. <G>)*****
>and "Artiste",
No, never! An "artiste" is an exotic dancer, what people like you call a
stripper, Frankie.
What I am is an "artist", as acclaimed by my peers, critics, and the
government of Ireland, which, having determined that I am an artist in
excellent international standing in several disciplines, therefore gave
this poor political refugee not only a safe home but a tax-free existence.
It surprises me, Frankie, that you didn't discover all this for yourself on
the public record at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/TheWritersHouse2.html#anchor1869435 and
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/TheWritersHouse2.html#Reviews and thereby
saved the bandwidth you consume here. After all, I find you spilling your
cookies over my site more than 50 times a month on average since I started
counting--that's nearly twice a day!**
So you see, Frank, no self-"proclamiming"* (!) is required. The thing about
works of art is that those capable of making them just do it, and leave it
to the facilitators to proclaim them. Those who worry about proclamation,
as you do so much, will never be originators.
Thank you once more for this generous opportunity to promote my books, and
of course by implication my other talents, which you so generously sponsor.
Do come again.
Andre
*"Proclamimed" = Public relations conducted wordlessly, with plenty of
gestures and grimaces?
**Virtual stalking?
Andre Jute
andre@indigo.ie
COMMUNICATION JUTE
- --we support pages for music lovers, writers and audiophiles at
http://www.foundmark.com/ComJute/ComJuteF1.html
=========================================================================
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: Thanks for plugging my book
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 97 14:39:26 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n081
Andre and others,
I've only been back on the SP list for a couple of weeks and already I'm
tiring of having my mailbox full of irrelevant posts. I don't care who's
fault it is. I havn't seen whatever the recent exchanges were but please
try to just not bite.
Dr. Peter Campbell (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
C/O Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O. Ph.61-2-62464053 or -62464158 (w)
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601 61-2-62516213 (h)
Australia 61-2-62464173 (fax)
=========================================================================
From: "Markowitz, Gary" <MarkowitzG@nabisco.com>
Subject: RE: Thanks for plugging my book
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 09:34:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n082
Andre wrote:
>I want to thank
<snip>
Not you too, again. Geeze, and I thought you were behaving yourself
quite nicely for a while there. Now that it seems pretty clear that
both you and Frank are indeed on the same level, please do us all a
favor and and shut up.
Regards,
Gary Markowitz
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------
"Into the keyboard, thru the processor, off the NIC, past the gateway,
nothing but Net"
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@bfm.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks for plugging my book
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:29:49 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n085
On Oct 23, 2:27am, Andre Jute wrote:
> At 10:26 am -0400 22/10/97, Frank Deutschmann wrote:
> >Certainly Andre, as a Self-Proclamimed* "Author"
> *"Proclamimed" = Public relations conducted wordlessly, with plenty of
> gestures and grimaces?
Yes, almost exactly. Think about it.
- -frank
(For the Dictionary-less:
mime (n.) 1.a. A form of ancient Greek and Roman drama in which realistic
characters and situations were farcically portrayed and actual persons
mimicked on the stage. b. A performance of, or dialogue for, such a comic
drama. c. An actor in such a drama. 2. A modern actor or comedian who
specializes in comic mimicry; buffoon; clown. ...
[From _The American Heritage Dictionary_, New College Edition, 1979.])
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Thanks for suggestions
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:20:35 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n074
The subject says it all. A huge thanks goes out to everyone for their help
with ideas for MY FIRST AMP (ta da). As Mike has noted I'm swamped with
stuff right now, so after I've had a chance to sort it all out some of you
WILL be getting pleas for help (and stupid questions).
Man, this is a great list
Cheers
and thanks again
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: "Michael Cameron" <mncameron@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Thanks for the schematic help
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:54:12 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n453
I want to thank all who posted and e-mailed directly to help me with reading
the schematics. I now have a clue.
Thanks again
Michael
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome...
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:41:35 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n366
I said,
>It's great if a DIYer takes an idea and runs with it, but not so cool
>when it's done with a commercial interest in mind.
I disturbed a fellow joelister with this statement, and I want to clarify in
case anyone else was perturbed by it.
I meant that it's great for a DIYer to take designs out of VALVE and build
them for himself, but if it's my idea, and I copyright it, it upsets me when
I find out he's building twelve dead balls copies for "friends", or
photocopying the
articles and selling them all over the world. This kind of thing has
happened, and it's theft for commercial gain, plain and simple.
But don't get me wrong, any DIYer who decides to give a career in audio a
shot
using his own ideas has my blessing, or my condolences, depending on how my
own business day has gone!
I was really just trying to demonstrate why I would consider a VALVE rip off
of joelist
unethical. Sorry if I sounded down on those with an entrepreneurial bent.
Believe me, I'm the last guy in the world who would knock trying to make a
living at this game.
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:18:03 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n365
>-Doc, you have a cool new domain name and are preparing for a new, bigger
>VSAC. Great work! Last year's inaugural VSAC was splendid. Say, is a
Valve
>mail list coming up next?
Well, I'll say right off that I'm not too big on guys who can't do any
better than to copy somebody else. We've seen this to some extent in
products we've introduced, the show, circuit designs, even our trademarks
(!). It's great if a DIYer takes an idea and runs with it, but not so cool
when it's done with a commercial interest in mind.
Joe was the genius behind starting this list, and it serves a great purpose.
I have no intention of clashing with or trying to steal the steam from SP.
Ferchrissakes, this is the only list I can stand! I lasted two days on
Wreck.Audio because of the flagrant lack of knowledge so proudly flaunted
there, and only one day on the Bass List because of their oppressive
"moderation".
If we do some kind of list, and Dave and I have been discussing this at
length, we will probably offer more of a feedback list than an active list
like joelist. It will be keyed to topics covered in the print and online
versions of VALVE, and perhaps also serve as a showcase for circuit
contributions and essay contributions by fellow bottleheads, and a question
and answer forum for those seeking help with concepts introduced in VALVE.
I'd like to say here that Dave Stagner is doing a truly marvelous job with
the site, and he has so many cool ideas for the site in the works that I can
barely keep up with him. His enthusiasm is second to none, and he's a damn
good webhacker!
So far we see anywhere from 3000 hits a week to as high as 3000 hits a day
at bottlehead.com, so we plan to spend a lot of energy on the site after the
show, attempting to give the people what they want without stepping on the
toes of our buds in the biz.
Long live joelist and my buds on board,
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:53:52 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n365
>
>>On 29 Jul 98 Reid Welch said:
>>
>>> Subject: test-ignore
>>Hey, welcome back Reid.
>
>Yes, indeed, I second that welcome!
>
>--dnb
Hey, thanks for the welcome. I don't think I can get back into frequent
posting, however it's been a long time, and a lot has changed here. I'd like
to say hello to the list and throw in a few observations:
- -Doug Purl still draws his inspiration from personal inexperience.
- - I understand that Andre is gone.
- -Doc, you have a cool new domain name and are preparing for a new, bigger
VSAC. Great work! Last year's inaugural VSAC was splendid. Say, is a Valve
mail list coming up next?
- -There are so many new contributors to the joelist, with a lot of expertise
to share. For instance the recent discussion of transformers and CF
stuff. Unfortunately for me I'm pretty much out of the audio loop. In fact
I've been tied up with tube theremin research for nearly a year,
I like the unusual and the underappreciated- such as theremin design. I
guess I go in unusual directions, like theremins, HF cathode heating and my
cathode battery concept.
I presented the cathode battery invention here about 18 months ago almost as
an afterthought. Spence Barton looked into the idea and made it viable by
employing a nicad battery for the "current pass element" (i guess that's an
appropriate term). I had noted back in 1994 that a 9V alkaline tended to get
very hot from the charging current of a 6J5, so although it sounded good, I
didn't take the concept farther. So, what's happening with the cathode
battery these days? Since Spence and Dave tried it out in their circuits I
have put it one one stage of my Acme preamp. Works OK and sounds good. Here
are my questions
Other things being equal (no blocking cap), is cathode battery bias
different _sounding_ than fixed negative bias on the grid? Seems to me, the
main drawback of cathode battery bias is in the non-adustability. The
cathode battery in my preamp emphasizes biasing differences between tube
samples, versus the "self regulating" effect of cathode resistor bias. But
I disliked any cathode resistor on that stage. I do wonder whether the
cathode battery emphasizes bias point variations in the 5842 even more than
does grid bias/
Grego, your amp that was featured in the recent SP employed a cathode
battery. Do you find that the cathode battery offered different _dynamic
characteristics_ than say, fixed bias on the grid? I don't have my SP at
hand to check whether you covered this question in your text.
Well, that's enough for now. Nice to be back!
best regards,
Reid
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (Dave Slagle)
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:46:38 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n366
here we go again...
grego nailed it... douggie defended it... and we are talking about
minivans, and words not in my dictionary....and of coures the one line
replies are at an all time high.
>Hey, thanks for the welcome. I don't think I can get back into frequent
>posting
Please do you weenie!
>-Doug Purl still draws his inspiration from personal inexperience.
hey he is wounded now... and begging for sympathy
>- I understand that Andre is gone.
funny he left RAT and Purl showed up on joenet... hmmmm. they both seem to
have the same method of writing... I'll be the first to say... just cuz you
rite well... doesn't mean your thought are any bettr... just better
presented.
doug, i read your giblet post... got through 1/2 of it.. you made valid
points, but the group does not need a mentor... if you want to contribute
build something... and offer an opinion... write an article and send it to
Joe... don't just show up and try to be our savior we don't need you
anymore than Stereophool does... dont just troll and then run away when we
don't understand... we are all big people... and we do not need
education... we are looking for ideas and you have many good ones, but if
you are going to be here...pleeeeeze put in the effort that the rest of us
do... otherwise... go away!
>Say, is a Valve
>mail list coming up next?
what a cool place for the Valve Ideas to prosper... doc, this is it... I'm
all for it... I can't make it out for VSAC, but it would be great for an
interactive group to talk about the going's on... websites are sooo
unpersonal... an active mail list for vsac would be so cool... day by day
updates... maybe even a live link! now thats cool
>I presented the cathode battery invention here about 18 months ago almost as
>an afterthought.
Thank you Thank you Thank you!
>Spence Barton looked into the idea and made it viable by
>employing a nicad battery for the "current pass element" (i guess that's an
>appropriate term). I had noted back in 1994 that a 9V alkaline tended to get
>very hot from the charging current of a 6J5, so although it sounded good, I
>didn't take the concept farther. So, what's happening with the cathode
>battery these days?
and alkaline batteries in the grid circuit of an ouput exploded for me, but
packer pat has had great success with lead cells...
Can I also add, when you asked Takuji (sp) about it he referred to it as
Kotei bias, and that the japanese voiced a preference for nicads as opposed
to lead acid cells...(in the cathode and not the grid) the funny thing
is... it was another "new" thought that has a lot of history. I guess we
all go back to our roots.... and credit is due where crdit is due.
>Since Spence and Dave tried it out in their circuits I
>have put it one one stage of my Acme preamp. Works OK and sounds good. Here
>are my questions
I used it as an easy way out... a D cel nicad was downstairs at Rat shak...
the appropriate resistor and cap combo... was a week away... so at the time
it made sense... funny thing is the easy way out worked! a later swap for
a R/C combo...even with black gates wasn't better... and if it ain't
broke...fix sumptin' dat iz
>Other things being equal (no blocking cap), is cathode battery bias
>different _sounding_ than fixed negative bias on the grid? Seems to me, the
>main drawback of cathode battery bias is in the non-adustability.
I see this as a plus... your bias is fixed.. so dial in the B+ for the
current you want... its easy... specially for the beginner (like me) and
you could do a lot worse! It at least teaches you how a tube operates!
>The
>cathode battery in my preamp emphasizes biasing differences between tube
>samples, versus the "self regulating" effect of cathode resistor bias.
I noted the differences in _quick_ tests like you did, but once in circuit
the tubes after a week or so tend to even out... I thought this strange,
but... given the wacky "matching" and price of 437A's I pu a pair in, and
lived through the "break in" and guess what... 4 months later... they are
nearly matched... go figure...
when i set up the circuit with a pair of nicads for -2.8V... at 170V of B+
one tube drew 28ma and the other 36ma... now.... the same 170V gives me 34
and 35ma... To be fair I should switch batteries to see if it was the
nicads changing or the tubes... but if it ain't broke.....
>Well, that's enough for now. Nice to be back!
now go away you trouble maker
dave
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:41:49 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n366
On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Doc B. wrote:
> >-Doc, you have a cool new domain name and are preparing for a new, bigger
> >VSAC. Great work! Last year's inaugural VSAC was splendid. Say, is a
> Valve
> >mail list coming up next?
>
> If we do some kind of list, and Dave and I have been discussing this at
> length, we will probably offer more of a feedback list than an active list
> like joelist. It will be keyed to topics covered in the print and online
> versions of VALVE, and perhaps also serve as a showcase for circuit
> contributions and essay contributions by fellow bottleheads, and a question
> and answer forum for those seeking help with concepts introduced in VALVE.
> I'd like to say here that Dave Stagner is doing a truly marvelous job with
> the site, and he has so many cool ideas for the site in the works that I can
> barely keep up with him. His enthusiasm is second to none, and he's a damn
> good webhacker!
I suppose i'll jump in here, since the subject has been breached, and
present my own ideas on this topic...
I agree completely with Doc B that there is no point in starting another
email list like Joenet. This mailing list is my favorite online
community, and i don't see how we could do any better with another one.
And *community* is the key - Joenet is a well-established community, with
its own recognized history, customs, and, er, colorful figures. :}
This is not to say we won't offer something else! These are not to
compete with Joenet, but to complement it - to pick up where Joenet leaves
off. The first idea is a web-based bbs/threaded discussion list. Posts
would be archived pretty much forever, searchable, etc. Rather than
appearing in your email every time you log in, you'd have to go to
bottlehead.com to see the latest threads. The interaction would be more
deliberate, and more permanent-feeling. There would probably be less
babble and banter, but less conversational flow and feel as well. It
won't be like Joenet, because the interaction will be different. But,
like Joenet, it will still be an interactive, user-driven community.
The second idea is tied to VALVE Online. Basically, there would be a
"feedback" mechanism for articles. Readers could post their own responses
and comments (and sometimes, corrections) for the articles. I've seen
this used, to varying degrees of effectiveness, on other web sites (one of
my favorites is a news site for the Open Source (free) software community,
http://www.slashdot.org, which consists almost entirely of feedback to
news blurbs. There are strong similarities between the DIY audio and Open
Source software communities, as has been observed by Lynn Olson and
others). Again, this is a means to have *everyone* contribute to our
shared knowledge base.
A third idea, although not so fancy, is an online classifieds system for
tube/DIY audio stuff. Just a handy thing to have.
At some point, there will probably be an email list associated with
Bottlehead.com, but it won't be an open discussion list like Joenet. It'd
be more of a one-way announcements list. Again, why compete with Joenet?
I can't imagine doing a better list than this one is already.
I suppose i should make my motivations clear as well. Just so no eyebrows
are raised, this is a commercial venture for both myself and Doc B. He's
paying me to build and run a nice web site to promote his own business.
And for purely commercial reasons, i want this site to really shine,
because i can use it as an online portfolio to sell web design and
administration work to people with deeper pockets.
But more importantly, i want to promote and strengthen the DIY audio
community. Without the things i've learned from Sound Practices, VALVE,
and especially Joenet, i'd still be stuck with an unlistenable mainstream
stereo that would keep me from my favorite music. This community is doing
something very important, and in a very open and honest manner. I want to
make this community larger, stronger, and more effective, without
undermining the social factors that make it a good community in the first
place. I can't improve on Joenet, and i'm not going to be a professional
audio builder or critic, and i'm not a paper publisher. What i do
understand is technology and online communities. I'll leverage those
skills to build a better community for the DIY tube audio movement.
And really, Bottlehead.com isn't my only interest for DIY audio online.
I'm also working, slowly but surely, on my own web site for DIY audio.
It'll be a place to put pics of my own work, more personal stuff, and
things that i'm not sure are appropriate to associate with a commercial
venture like Bottlehead.com (for example, i long ago got jc's permission
to put the Fi Primer on the web. I've already put up the schematics, and
the text will follow *someday*. But considering the Primer was a
commercial pice that jc has since gifted on the world, i'm not sure it
would be appropriate to have it at Bottlehead.com, where Doc B's business
would directly benefit from it). For those of you interested, my own site
will be at http://www.spnz.org/selfbias/ Whatever pages are there now are
just scratch, though.
Another thing i'm working on, that's been on hold since i've put most of
my time into Bottlehead.com, is a Webring devoted to tube and DIY audio.
Webrings are another really great mechanism for building onine
communities. This one actully involves some coding and admin, though, so
it will be a while before it's ready for public consumption. It's called
the Vacuum State Webring, and i'll announce its homepage and how to join
(for those of you with your own web pages) as soon as i get its home page
straightened out.
> So far we see anywhere from 3000 hits a week to as high as 3000 hits a day
> at bottlehead.com, so we plan to spend a lot of energy on the site after the
> show, attempting to give the people what they want without stepping on the
> toes of our buds in the biz.
If we can get a solid, interactive community going at Bottlehead.com, i
think it could bring in tens of thousands of hits a day! I'm already
getting email from people who have never heard of Joenet, and found
Bottlehead.com on a search engine or from the ad in Glass Audio. Ideally,
i want Bottlehead.com to be a place that people check daily, or at least
regularly. That's good for Doc B's business, and it's good for the
community to have such an active site.
> Long live joelist and my buds on board,
Amen!
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:55:57 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n366
- ----------
> De : Reid Welch <rewelch@earthlink.net>
> A : sound@deliverator.io.com
> Objet : Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
> Date : mercredi 29 juillet 1998 23:53
> I presented the cathode battery invention here about 18 months ago almost
as
> an afterthought. Spence Barton looked into the idea and made it viable
by
> employing a nicad battery for the "current pass element" (i guess that's
an
> appropriate term). I had noted back in 1994 that a 9V alkaline tended to
get
> very hot from the charging current of a 6J5, so although it sounded good,
I
> didn't take the concept farther. So, what's happening with the cathode
> battery these days? Since Spence and Dave tried it out in their circuits
I
> have put it one one stage of my Acme preamp. Works OK and sounds good.
Here
Some time ago we have a discussion about the reliability of battery
biasing.
I send a reply to one question from Dave Stagner, here it is for what is
worth...
- ----------
> De : Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
> Date : lundi 15 juin 1998 23:27
> Like i said, i don't want to do battery bias on my friend's amp for
> reliability reasons. I won't always be there to fix it, and he doesn't
> understand electronics.
Hello,
Doing a lot of different experiment with my monotube (WE437) amplifier I
felt the need to experiment a cathod biasing by battery.
I use lithium battery (something like 750mAH if I remember correctly)
I tried different solutions, with a capacitor in parallel or without.
Finally I used a capacitor in parallel.
As the current (between 20 and 30 mA)through the tube was also the surge
current I noticed also that it was too much for the small batteries I used,
they were heating a lot. You could say to me that the solution should be to
use larger batteries but I cannot use larger batteries here. I have no
remaining place under the chassis because of my my lead counterplates
supporting the tubes :-)
First solution:
I put a resistor to derive a part of the current through the tube so the
surge current is kept within reasonable limits. Bad idea,the bias point
varied a lot and during a very long time when heating the amp and the
sounds changed a lot too.
Second solution:
I had the idea that I could use silicon rectifiers in parallel with the
lithium battery.
I wanted the surge current too stay around 10 mA so I have to derived
around 20 mA.
I draw the current versus voltage curve of the silicon rectifiers. This
indicated to me
that for the voltage (in operation) of the lithium battery I have too put
several silicon rectifiers in series to obtain the same voltage (don't
remember how many I think it is 2).
The silicon rectifiers are used in the curved part (low current) of their
characteristic curve (I versus ). When the voltage of the battery rises,
more current
is derived through the silicon rectifiers. When the voltage of the battery
decreases, less current is derived through the silicon rectifiers. This
insures a pretty good stabilization of the battery voltage and of the bias
point of the tube.
Also when the amp is off, the current decreases rapidly through the silicon
rectifiers and the lithium batteries keep their surge.
Advantages:
There is no more change in the bias point of the tube when heating the amp.
The lithium + the capacitor damp every noise from the silicon rectifiers.
This is very safe, the battery state of surge is very constant with time.
You don't have to bother about the battery anymore.
For the moment I keep using that solution with greatest satisfaction.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:20:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n367
Reid Welch wrote:
> I presented the cathode battery invention here about 18 months ago almost as
> an afterthought. Spence Barton looked into the idea and made it viable by
> employing a nicad battery for the "current pass element" (i guess that's an
> appropriate term). I had noted back in 1994 that a 9V alkaline tended to get
> very hot from the charging current of a 6J5, so although it sounded good, I
> didn't take the concept farther. So, what's happening with the cathode
> battery these days?
Well, a C-cell resides in the cathode of the 5842Q used for my line stage. It
sounds good to me and I haven't changed it for well over a year. Thanks for the
inspiration.
JL
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: RE: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteri es.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:51:22 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n368
My humble 6SN7 plate follower line stage uses a pair of 'C's for bias.
The improvement in transparency over the R/C arrangement it replaced
convinced me instantly that this was the sound for me. It has not
received universal praise with all though. Some have commented that the
sound was more edgy and shrill than the previous arrangement.
I am currently building the SJS 66 dB phono section, altered to possibly
take 7119s. I am biasing all stages ( 417A, 6922, 6922) with NiCds and
find this method very satisfactory. I have not tried all my 417As, so
can not comment presently on unit to unit variations being exaggerated.
An excellent bias method in my view. Thanks for mentioning it! Regards,
David
-----Original Message-----
From: John Levreault [mailto:jlevro@mediaone.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 8:21 AM
To: Reid Welch
Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and
questions about cathode batteries.
Reid Welch wrote:
> I presented the cathode battery invention here about
18 months ago almost as
> an afterthought. Spence Barton looked into the idea
and made it viable by
> employing a nicad battery for the "current pass
element" (i guess that's an
> appropriate term). I had noted back in 1994 that a 9V
alkaline tended to get
> very hot from the charging current of a 6J5, so
although it sounded good, I
> didn't take the concept farther. So, what's happening
with the cathode
> battery these days?
Well, a C-cell resides in the cathode of the 5842Q used
for my line stage. It
sounds good to me and I haven't changed it for well over
a year. Thanks for the
inspiration.
JL
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:04:38 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n369
Reid Welch wrote:
>
> Hey, thanks for the welcome.
...snip...
Let me add mine, too :^)
...more snip...
> Other things being equal (no blocking cap), is cathode battery bias
> different _sounding_ than fixed negative bias on the grid? Seems to me, the
> main drawback of cathode battery bias is in the non-adustability. The
> cathode battery in my preamp emphasizes biasing differences between tube
> samples, versus the "self regulating" effect of cathode resistor bias. But
> I disliked any cathode resistor on that stage. I do wonder whether the
> cathode battery emphasizes bias point variations in the 5842 even more than
> does grid bias/
Haven't seen this idea here, but I found it in an old book of amp
circuits from 1947 (I think) - you can use the same battery (actually
an alkaline would last longest I think) in the grid circuit for fixed
bias. Worry a little about battery-to-chassis capacitance, but
otherwise it's a fixed bias without any PS noise problems.
my 2 cents today...
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:16:37 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n369
Dave Slagle wrote:
> ...OK, I snipped almost all of this ... -pj
> and alkaline batteries in the grid circuit of an ouput exploded for me, but
> packer pat has had great success with lead cells...
In light of this experience, I hope all will disregard my earlier post
describing this idea...
- -Paul Joppa,
egg but no battery guts on my face...
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:30:15 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n369
>Reid Welch wrote:
>>
>> Hey, thanks for the welcome.
>...snip...
Paul said:
>Let me add mine, too :^)
Thanks. I think I'm wearing it out pretty fast.
>>...more snip...
>> Other things being equal (no blocking cap), is cathode battery bias
>> different _sounding_ than fixed negative bias on the grid? Seems
>to me, the
>> main drawback of cathode battery bias is in the non-adustability. The
>> cathode battery in my preamp emphasizes biasing differences between tube
>> samples, versus the "self regulating" effect of cathode
>resistor bias. But
>> I disliked any cathode resistor on that stage. I do wonder whether the
>> cathode battery emphasizes bias point variations in the 5842
>even more than
>> does grid bias/
>
>Haven't seen this idea here, but I found it in an old book of amp
>circuits from 1947 (I think)
Cool! Could you scan the page to me? What book is it?
- - you can use the same battery (actually
>an alkaline would last longest I think) in the grid circuit for fixed
>bias. Worry a little about battery-to-chassis capacitance, but
>otherwise it's a fixed bias without any PS noise problems.
OK, but the only batteries that seem _safe_ for cathode use are those which
accept a steady reverse current. Alkaline, carbon zinc, zinc choride do not
take well to such service.
They say there's nothing new to be invented in tubes. And I guess they are
right!
Thanks,
Reid
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (Dave Slagle)
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome... and questions about cathode batteries.
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:49:54 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n373
>> and alkaline batteries in the grid circuit of an ouput exploded for me, but
>> packer pat has had great success with lead cells...
>
>In light of this experience, I hope all will disregard my earlier post
>describing this idea...
paul,
no egg! you have it right... this is not a pool for small fish...
suggestions should be made and tried... and remember if you don't know what
you are doing be prepared to pay the piper... it could be a chinese 2A3, a
WE 300B or your house... be warned...
Joenet is not the place for advice, it is a quest for the ultimate in music
enjoyment and I think we all will agree its not about the means or
impressing someone, but the music... and if we learn something along the
way...
I recently had a thought on my problem with the expoloding batteries in the
grid circuit. I have always used IT's and placing a battery at the bottom
of the secondary seemed like an ideal easy step (again 3 9V's from K-mart
was much quicker than an 880 ohm 10W NI resistor and 47mfd cap)
but the few other battery grid bias circuits I have seen have had a
resistor in series with the cell... and this would limit current... (the
loesch also uses it to set bias) but given the low dcr of the IT sec. it
has no means to limit the "charging" current from the grid... (which
apparently is present even at no signal) this as I understand it is quite
different from grid current as we know it,
even at no signal... a traditional cap and 100K grid resistor prevents any
of this current...
a similar circuit with an IT and cathode bias has the low DCR so the grid
current sees a near short to ground and easy path...
does an alkaline (or lithium, zinc etc.) have a death wish in regards to
charging... they happily charge, but it kills them???
As I recall pat was using a current source on the first stage, and if
there were a resistor at his bias batteries (is there one?) then maybe
alkaline's could save an acre of space or so??? and a dollar or two to
boot... I have stated that only a battery that likes to be charged should
be put in a grid circuit of an output tube... but maybe I should ammend
that to the bottom of an IT's secondary???
I am never one to compromise sound for space, but I am finding way too many
of the things touted here (even by me) are either too big, too complex, or
too expensive... and maybe some extra work on the general thoughts could
save a little work on the final amp...
oh yeah...
*****
off topic... please reply privately if you understand
*****
pat:
is it: longwellsan or conwaysan my bud??
and will the sheyboygan stutter stepper make it in holmgrensan's good
grace??? pedersonsan tossed a nice pass to him and he snagged it... and how
about jerveysan???
I still say pay the big $$$$ for levensan :-)
bet you never though I would say that!
dave
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenWright@compuserve.com>
Subject: Thanks for the welcomes!
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:54:17 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n543
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all the positive responses, wasn't sure if I would
be welcome or not...
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Thanks for Tube Tester help
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:54:48 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n093
Thanks you everyone for help with locating tube tester supplier.
STeve
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Thanks (fwd)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:16:02 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n315
Can someone suggest some help to this fellow, please? I have no idea what
is going on
Please reply to him and not me.
Thanks for you help, guys!
Cheers
Richard Nevill
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:56:10 -0400
From: "[ISO-8859-1] Sylvain Giguère" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
To: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Thanks
Hi Richard,
gee.. I am in trouble and it doesn't make any sense... If I send a "test"
message to either sound@deliverator.io.com or at: sound@io.com
Both messages appear on the list. But if I put any other subject as a
headlinde, the message just disappear... I have sent at least 5 messages by
now to the list about VV30Bs, and none of them ever appeared...
I have sent a copy of my last message to Bastien (here on the list) a good
friend of mine, and he'll try to post it for me. Really, I don't understand
what is going on. I just can't send any message to the list for months...
=========================================================================
From: spence barton <ence-ack@rio.com>
Subject: Re:thanksgiving weekend/cathode drve
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:47:18 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n124
Hi Bob
> > haven't played with the cathode drive option much more.
> > when i tried it last week i couldn't hear much difference.
> > would have liked to investigate a bit more but i didn't have
> > the ambition.
> >
> > maybe this weekend. after i put the new se 1626 amp in my car...
> > stay tuned!
> >
> > bob.d.
>
> i actually had some time last night when i got home to try out
> the cathode driven 572-30 option. like i said before, didn't really
> HEAR much difference between this and the standard grid driven
> configuration.
> however, i did notice a reduction in gain with this cathode drive.
> (i had to turn it near full volume to get to clipping)
>
> spence barton had mentioned this effect to me. apparently
> considerable degeneration due to driver output impedance/resistance/
> secondary DCR ..? haven't really thought too much about this one yet.
>
snip
> i figure the Zout of the driver is about 20 ohm.
> haven't measured the secondary DCR, but i'm sure it'll be swamped out
> by the "hum-pot" equivalent resistance.
> i have two series 56 ohm resistors between the filament pins
> and a 100 ohm pot across the whole thing. so i figure there's
> about 13 ohm resistance in series with the "virtual cathode"
> input...
>
> i'll have to think about this some more...
> any comments would be appreciated
snip
Hi Bob,
As I said in my note you (though, none to clearly I think) the
degeneration comes not only because of the unbypassed DCR in the
secondary of the driver but because the plate current of the output tube
tends to counter act the voltage induced in the secondary from the
driver tube.
Lets say the induced voltage in the secondary is rising as the signal
coupled from the driver tube through the primaryn rises, this will cause
the output tube to conduct less and the reduction in current through the
secondry will induce a voltage opposite to the voltage coupled from the
primary. This degeneraton grows as the drive grows. Then, god only knows
how this opposing voltage looks to the driver tube when reflected back
to the primary.
This later effect, if present will be dependant on polarity of coil
hookup but not so the degeneration effect. The other interesting effect
is that this degeneration in not dependant on output tube gain. It is
caused by the signal modulating the plate current of the output tube and
therefore depends more on the idle DC current of the output tube than
anything. With a lower gain output tube, more drive is required and
after the degeneration there is more drive left but since the output is
less sensitive there is still a gain problem. With a high gain output
tube there is less drive needed but the voltage induced in the secondary
of the drive transformer by the signal-modulated -plate current is still
the same size (if the idle currents of the two output tubes are the
same) so there is a more complete degeneration. This is compensated for
somewhat by the higher gain output tube. The facts are though, that to
use cathode drive it will take a lot of voltage at low impedance. I
still think there are benefits to be had especially with marginal audio
tubes like the RCA 811 with it's mu of 160. For the very short time I
had to listen to it, I thought the sound I got from this drive scheme
was pretty good.
It is also sometimes interesting to try puting a positive voltage on the
grid and using a lower B+ with the cathode drive scheme. This brings
lots of the benefits of the Shishido circuits with a simpler grid
circuit (no signal at the grid, postive DC voltage only). No need to
worry about how to supply both a DC bias and a signal to the grid. I
have a couple of sneaky ideas about using cathode drive to some
advantage but I need to try them out a bit more. And that means cleaning
up the basement so I can finish the overhaul of my emergency backup
hammond organ so I can get back to my hi fi projects so I can build a
good dc filament supply so the high gain DHTs won't hum so badly when
used in cathode drive so I can.... Maybe by the next VSAC I will have
something useful to say about cathode drive. sigh
spence
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: thanks grego
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:34:18 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n314
Just want to say job well done to Grego on that B52 article
By the way, Mikey has been busy designing a 150 mA parafeed choke. Stay
tuned.....
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: Thanks Scott
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:57:40 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Now that the list appears to be back up and running, I'd like to vote early
for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my vote goes to Scott for his
Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks Scott, much appreciated! -
Pat
Pat Currie, Lowther Club of America Upper Midwest Representative
(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:28:38 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Seconded :-) Very much appreciated Scott.
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@rio.atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:48:02 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Patrick Currie wrote:
>
> Now that the list appears to be back up and running, I'd like to vote early
> for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my vote goes to Scott for his
> Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks Scott, much appreciated! -
Pat, consider that seconded.
The man has my vote for Bottle-Stud and MVP.
Thanks Scott, ya done good.
Ron
=========================================================================
From: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:44:05 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Patrick Currie wrote:
>
> Now that the list appears to be back up and running, I'd like to vote early
> for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my vote goes to Scott for his
> Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks Scott, much appreciated! -
> Pat
Yes!. Running the temp. Joelist Server was the summit of helpfullness,
from a real 1.st rate fellow Joelister, and friend.
I second the above quote a 100%.
HOME OF
Tractrix Horns, Tube Amps,
Fieldcoil Loudspeakers and Computer Graphics
http://home5.inet.tele.dk/f-hammer/
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:57:32 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Patrick Currie wrote:
> Now that the list appears to be back up and running, I'd like to vote
> early
> for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my vote goes to Scott for
> his
> Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks Scott, much
> appreciated! -
> Pat
>
> Pat Currie, Lowther Club of America Upper Midwest Representative
> (608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
You (and everyone else) are welcome. The temporary joenet server is
now officially off the air.
S.G.
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~gesic
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: Thanks Scott
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:53:27 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Patrick said:
"...I'd like to vote early for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my
vote goes to Scott for his Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks
Scott, much appreciated!"
Hear, hear...well said...three cheers...jolly good show...good job, dude
Steve C.
=========================================================================
From: Bob Chernofsky <bobc@mci2000.com>
Subject: Thanks Scott
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:20:09 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
- ----------
> From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
> To: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
> Subject: Re: joenet back?
> Date: Sunday, August 24, 1997 4:47 AM
>
> Finn Hammer wrote:
>
> > If you all get this one, the joelist is up and running again.
> > --
> > HOME OF
> > Tractrix Horns, Tube Amps,
> > Fieldcoil Loudspeakers and Computer Graphics
> >
> > http://home5.inet.tele.dk/f-hammer/
>
>
> YAAAAAAAAAAA!
>
> S.G.
Webster's definition for "YAAAAAAAAAA!"
1) Joy, Happiness, Elation
2) A new way to spell relief
3) Accidentally clip leading yourself to the B+ of your new 845 amp, then
turning it on.
Bob
=========================================================================
From: Lancelot Dow <dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 10:29:03 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Now that the list appears to be back up and running, I'd like to vote early
for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my vote goes to Scott for his
Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks Scott, much appreciated!
A couple of quickies here.
Firstly I'd like to add my vote of thanks here to Scott for his
(what's a word that's bigger than Herculean? ...Oh, never mind),
tremendous efforts in creating and maintaining the temporary list.
'Listmember of the Year' sounds a little too tame. How about 'Bigheart
of the Year'?
Secondly, it's great to have the list back online. I don't contribute
to the list as much as I'd like, but I look forward to reading others'
contributions. I didn't realise how much until it wasn't there for two
days. What does that say about me I wonder.
Lastly, with this new chrome plated, go-faster listserver I now see
the sender's address in the header instead of just the listserver's.
Great. And in the past people told me it was my mail software that was
at fault.
Lance
dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk
Perhaps I don't need to sign off like this anymore.
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (DOT)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: Thanks Scott
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:40:40 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
How come the heroes are always american?
In this case, I just can't maintain my rage.
Well done Scott. ****MY HERO!!!!****
;-) Grant
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
>----------
>From: Ron Bales[SMTP:rbales@rio.atlantic.net]
>
>Patrick Currie wrote:
>>
>> Now that the list appears to be back up and running, I'd like to vote early
>> for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my vote goes to Scott for his
>> Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks Scott, much appreciated! -
>
>Pat, consider that seconded.
>
>The man has my vote for Bottle-Stud and MVP.
>
>Thanks Scott, ya done good.
>
>Ron
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Thorsten \"EZEE\" Loesch" <tloesh_2@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:15:56 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Hi all,
> > Now that the list appears to be back up and running, I'd like to vote
early
> > for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my vote goes to Scott for
his
> > Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks Scott, much appreciated!
- -
>
> Yes!. Running the temp. Joelist Server was the summit of helpfullness,
> from a real 1.st rate fellow Joelister, and friend.
>
> I second the above quote a 100%.
Being a (now ex) Computer network Manager I have a good Idea what Scott
actually went trough with the temporary list. BIG THANX Scott and I
certainly
second the motion for list member of the Year.
Kind regards Thorsten.
======================================
e-mail:
Torsten.Loesch@enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herin
are my personal ones and do not in any
way reflect opinions or policies of my
employer.
web-pages:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~tloesh_2
======================================
=========================================================================
From: Yip Hin Fai Johari <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:47:42 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n001
Lancelot Dow wrote:
>
> Now that the list appears to be back up and running, I'd like to vote early
> for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my vote goes to Scott for his
> Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks Scott, much appreciated!
>
> A couple of quickies here.
>
> Firstly I'd like to add my vote of thanks here to Scott for his
> (what's a word that's bigger than Herculean? ...Oh, never mind),
> tremendous efforts in creating and maintaining the temporary list.
> 'Listmember of the Year' sounds a little too tame. How about 'Bigheart
> of the Year'?
>
> Secondly, it's great to have the list back online. I don't contribute
> to the list as much as I'd like, but I look forward to reading others'
> contributions. I didn't realise how much until it wasn't there for two
> days. What does that say about me I wonder.
>
> Lastly, with this new chrome plated, go-faster listserver I now see
> the sender's address in the header instead of just the listserver's.
> Great. And in the past people told me it was my mail software that was
> at fault.
>
>
> Lance
> dow@ccmail.ram.co.uk
>
> Perhaps I don't need to sign off like this anymore.
Hi everyone
I think Lance speaks for more of us in the joelist.I, for one, has the
same withdrawal symtoms when the list was down for 2 days.Don't really
contribute much but just very kin to know of fellow joenetter opinion on
certain subject.Once again, thanks Scott for the great effort.
Regards
Johari
=========================================================================
From: gdahl@televar.com (Gary Dahl)
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:55:57 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n002
Patrick wrote:
>"...I'd like to vote early for "Listmember of the Year" and, of course, my
>vote goes to Scott for his Herculean efforts to keep us in touch. Thanks
>Scott, much appreciated!"
Scott gets my vote too. A thousand thanks, Scott!!
Best regards,
Gary
gdahl@televar.com
=========================================================================
From: Bob Chernofsky <bobc@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks Scott
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:33:21 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n002
- ----------
> From: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
> To: Finn Hammer <f-hammer@post5.tele.dk>
> Subject: Re: joenet back?
> Date: Sunday, August 24, 1997 4:47 AM
>
> Finn Hammer wrote:
>
> > If you all get this one, the joelist is up and running again.
> > --
> > HOME OF
> > Tractrix Horns, Tube Amps,
> > Fieldcoil Loudspeakers and Computer Graphics
> >
> > http://home5.inet.tele.dk/f-hammer/
>
>
> YAAAAAAAAAAA!
>
> S.G.
Webster's definition for "YAAAAAAAAAA!"
1) Joy, Happiness, Elation
2) A new way to spell relief
3) Accidentally clip leading yourself to the B+ of your new 845 amp,
then...
turning it on.
Thanks Scott
Bob
=========================================================================
From: "Markowitz, Gary" <MarkowitzG@nabisco.com>
Subject: RE: Thanks Scott
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:57:00 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n002
Scott and all,
I'd like to add my thanks to all of the others. In addition to the Tube
Dude of the Century nomination, I hope you at least got a lifetime
subscription to SP out of it ;-).
Gary Markowitz
MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------
"Into the keyboard, thru the processor, off the NIC, past the gateway,
nothing but Net"
=========================================================================
From: Dale.Simon@pscmail.ps.net
Subject: Re[2]: Thanks Scott
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:52:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n002
- ------ =_0_MIME_Boundary_5192.340319bc.dcuh029.dcu.ps.net
Grant said
How come the heroes are always american?
Not so! What about Paul Hogan? Of course, in this case I'll bet Scott is one
of Hogan's heroes. Thanks to Joe too for the continued commitment.
thanks
Dale
PS. Is anyone else getting double messages?
- ------ =_0_MIME_Boundary_5192.340319bc.dcuh029.dcu.ps.net
<Zero length text item>
- ------ =_0_MIME_Boundary_5192.340319bc.dcuh029.dcu.ps.net--
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Thanks to all!
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:09:24 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n166
My thanks to Tim Reese and all you other guys who offered helpful
information about finding good beginners repair test. I just bought a RDM,
so I hope this helps. I had it on CD, but found it difficult to sit at the
machine and read. I prefer to have a book in front of me.
Thanks again,Steve
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Thanks to all who responded
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:49:01 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n216
Hi all,
I would like to thank all who responded to the 7355 inquiry.
Unfortunately, I got differing answers, ranging from 3,500 to 5,000 ohms
primary impedance. Since anything in this range seems to be about
right, I suppose the exact value is not terribly important. When I get
around to the project, I will measure the turns ratio and calculate it,
I just wanted to get an idea whether it was in the right ballpark.
Fortunately, I have a fairly large power tranny handy that puts out
about the right B+ voltage, and most of the other parts. So thanks
again.
Dan Marshall
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Richard Lindner <rjl@riclin.com.au>
Subject: Thanks to my anonymous helper :)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:58:57 +1100 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n552
a few days back i posted a query regarding the valve complement for the
AMC preamp. although i received no direct replies from the list,
apparently some kind joe forwarded my query onto a director at AMC who,
in turn, forwarded it on to an AMC tech who, in turn, got back to me
with the info i was after.
so, to whoever it was that passed on my query - thanks!
btw - in case anybody else needs to know - the answer was 2*12ax7 &
2*12au7.
- --
Richard Lindner Intrepid Adventurer rjl@riclin.com.au
Ph:+61 (0)413 804 075 rjl@gondwana.apana.org.au
What a long, strange trip it's been
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Thank You
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:02:06 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n322
I'm cheating like hell and sending this from a computer store, so I
gonna be brief.
A BIG public Thank You to all of you who responded to my test posts
yesterday. There were so many of you I couldn't possibly have replied to
each of you.
What apparently is happening (and judging from replies I received I'm
not the only one) is that the server is not sending me a copy of any
message I post, so it looks later on, when I sign back on, that nothing
got
through. I only see something if someone replies to me. Replies I send to
other posts are working fine.
I guess I'd better unsubscribe and then resubscribe, this has worked for
some folks. Could someone please remond me of the procedure and the
correct address to send to.
Thanks Again people and have a good weekend
Cheers Richard
PS as to this taste thing, I once took a Dead Kennedy's record in to
audition a pair of speakers. The salesman hated it, but commented it was a
nice change from all the 'audiophile' approved records he has to listen to
all day.
=========================================================================
From: SHAMSUL Bahrin Kamarudin <shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my>
Subject: (THANK YOU) Ref:>Re: Origins of Philips Miniwatt tubes ?
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:59:52 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n316
Hello.
THANK YOU all to have responded.
REgards.
::-)
\\\///
/ _ _ \
(| (.)(.) |)
|--------.OOOo--()--oOOO.-- mailto:shamsul.BK@innosabah.com.my -|
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ H/P: 019-8107360 TEL: 6088-244185 FAX: 6088-251679 _/
_/ http://www.innosabah.com.my _/
_/ ======================================================== _/
_/ TO BECOME A LEADING HI-TECH, PEOPLE ORIENTED FINANCIAL _/
_/ SERVICES COMPANY WHICH OFFERS WORLD CLASS _/
_/ INNOVATIVE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES _/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
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_/ ELECTRONIC MAIL | SADONG JAYA, KARAMUNSING, _/
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_/ HAVE BEEN SIGNED | M A L A Y S I A _/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Thare many crap in the world that gives audiophiles a bad name...
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 21:57:46 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n438
Alfia Mak wrote:
> Scott,
> What about Shun Mook crap, did any one of you had experience in that ? We
> had a discussion in the HK audio-visual NG on it, do you think it is also
> crap ? I personally don't believe it has anything to do with science.
>
> Alfia(snip)
Alfia:
Only what I have read. There are those who believe in such things, and like
any other religion, I do not make a prctice of questioning those who are
believers. I do, however, take issue with those who push this stuff on the
uneducated for a profit.
S.G.
- --
Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! at
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Also see my new website, Smoke Free Youth! at
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
=========================================================================
From: "Alfia Mak" <alfiamak@hkstar.com>
Subject: Re: Thare many crap in the world that gives audiophiles a bad name...
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:39:53 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n438
Scott,
What about Shun Mook crap, did any one of you had experience in that ? We
had a discussion in the HK audio-visual NG on it, do you think it is also
crap ? I personally don't believe it has anything to do with science.
Alfia
- -----Original Message-----
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
To: wjhunt@ccnet.com <wjhunt@ccnet.com>
Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: This is the kind of crap that gives audiophiles a bad name...
>
>
>William Hunt wrote:
>
>> Check out the favorable review on the Soundstage web site:
>>
>> http://www.soundstage.com/audio_frame.shtml
>>
>> Bill Hunt
>>
>> Scott Grammer wrote:
>>
>> > http://www.bybeetech.com/
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>
>I've seen it. I've also seen favorable reviews of Bose speakers and Shun
>Mook Disks.
>
>;-)
>
>S.G.
>
>
>--
>Check out TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! at
>http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
>Also see my new website, Smoke Free Youth! at
>http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Johari Yip" <hfyip@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Thare many crap in the world that gives audiophiles a bad name...
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:41:56 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n439
- ----------
> From: Alfia Mak <alfiamak@hkstar.com>
> To: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>; wjhunt@ccnet.com
> Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: Thare many crap in the world that gives audiophiles a bad
name...
> Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 9:39 AM
>
> Scott,
> What about Shun Mook crap, did any one of you had experience in that ? We
> had a discussion in the HK audio-visual NG on it, do you think it is also
> crap ? I personally don't believe it has anything to do with science.
>
> Alfia
Don't mind if I jump in here. Personally, I view all these devices as just
another media used in conjunction with the mechanical vibration/energy in
all audio equipment pocesses. They will in one way or another affects
certain resonance frequency of that equipment thereby altering the
presentation of the sound. Anything beyond that, like hearing difference in
sound just by placing they near your speakers or what not (that's what the
people at Shun Mook claimed) is CRAB.
Cheers,
Johari
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: Re: that devil JC
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:06:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n324
At 12:28 AM 6/27/98 +0200, Robert Jorgensen wrote:
>This is what Mark Long wrote:
>
>I don't know how others feel about this, but while people of course can say
>what they like, I personally feel quite uncomfortable with the kind of
>images thrown up with Herb's and jc's outbursts.
>
>I suppose I should not be surprised after having been on the net for some
>years now, but if you ask me, (which you probably will not) I could quite
>happily do without jc's sexual imaginings.
Mikey the tranny man once told me .... he hates it when people tame the
Altec A-7s.......he says he likes them just the way Altec built them ....
"warts and all" I feel the same way about JC ,,,, I think he's un tameable
, I like him just the way he is , he's a friend, and has shown me the
way.....and ask for nothing in return .
That's How I feel about this Blue Bill
>Robert
=========================================================================
From: Mark Donen <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: That ole devil CD
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:15:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n498
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Hi All,
All this talk of record players has made me think. Listen, what about
CD?
The damned things are a given reality (you can't just ignore) they ain't
going away...
I know that we are supposed to be interested in what sounds best and all
that, but it just ain't realistic for anyone (unless you have no holes
in your 20,000 + vinyl collection) to ignore CD altogether and be a
vinyl purist. (Unless you love the sound of vinyl play back above other
kinds of music you can get only on CD)
So I wanted to ask if anyone has seriously screwed around with CD
transports/drives DACs and has made any discoveries that are
interesting? This is in the hopes that an interesting thread will come
of it....
Anti-flame disclaimer: I know CD is crap etc., etc., limited bandwidth,
resolution etc. etc., and I know that 24/96 exists (but I just can't see
that its going to become the dominant music format -- there will be a
few hundred special discs that will go very quickly in and out of
print).
And listen, CD has one great advantage over LPs (as do 101/2" reels and
DAT and cassette for that matter), you get a 70+ minutes of continuous
uninterrupted music....
The continuity of music is a very important part of the musical
experience, don't you think?
I know CD is kinda anti the whole back to nature vibe of our triode DIY
thang, but hey, I ain't going to give up eating meat or stop listening
to CDs. I'd rather have pairs of 35 mm or 70 mm movie projectors and a
projection booth and screening room in my apartment too, but the only
thing stopping me it is SO inconvenient to get prints, not to mention a
good projectionist! (Please don't take this seriously!)
Thanks,
Mark
- --------------3F18B4F00BA1B95EBA4B47E9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Hi All,
<p>All this talk of record players has made me think. Listen, what about
CD?
<p>The damned things are a given reality (you can't just ignore) they ain't
going away...
<p>I know that we are supposed to be interested in what sounds best and
all that, but it just ain't realistic for anyone (unless you have no holes
in your 20,000 + vinyl collection) to ignore CD altogether and be a vinyl
purist. (Unless you love the sound of vinyl play back above other kinds
of music you can get only on CD)
<p>So I wanted to ask if anyone has seriously screwed around with CD transports/drives
DACs and has made any discoveries that are interesting? This is in the
hopes that an interesting thread will come of it....
<p><u>Anti-flame disclaimer</u>: I know CD is crap etc., etc., limited
bandwidth, resolution etc. etc., and I know that 24/96 exists (but I just
can't see that its going to become the dominant music format -- there will
be a few hundred special discs that will go very quickly in and out of
print).
<p>And listen, CD has one great advantage over LPs (as do 101/2" reels
and DAT and cassette for that matter), you get a 70+ minutes of continuous
uninterrupted music....
<p>The continuity of music is a very important part of the musical experience,
don't you think?
<p>I know CD is kinda anti the whole back to nature vibe of our triode
DIY thang, but hey, I ain't going to give up eating meat or stop listening
to CDs. I'd rather have pairs of 35 mm or 70 mm movie projectors and a
projection booth and screening room in my apartment too, but the only thing
stopping me it is <u>SO</u> inconvenient to get prints, not to mention
a good projectionist! (Please don't take this seriously!)
<p>Thanks,
<p>Mark</html>
- --------------3F18B4F00BA1B95EBA4B47E9--
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: Re: That ole devil CD
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:01:37 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n498
At 08:15 AM 11/21/98 -0500, Mark Donen wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt>Hi All,
All this talk of record players has made me think. Listen, what about CD?
So I wanted to ask if anyone has seriously screwed around with CD
transports/drives DACs and has made any discoveries that are interesting?
This is in the hopes that an interesting thread will come of it....
Mark
</excerpt>
Jc sent me a tube gain stage that i use with a AA 1.0 . Very nice . A
friend in NY named Eric Stateman also has one . Recently he took it over
to sound by singer , a hi zoot , big buck NY snob hi fi store . This
piece smoked every thing in the place except a 7 grand mark levenson ,
close .. the levenson was a little better .
My point, maybe get together with Dr Bootle head and mr tracy , or get a
hold of blackie and see if blackie can send a smoke signal or drum
message across the river to JC about buying the PC board and put one
together . as BE would say........ hope this helps . best WCG
PS as in audio craters guild , Norm Tracy
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: That ole devil CD
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:36:41 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n499
In a message dated 98-11-21 08:23:09 EST, Mark wrote:
>
> I know that we are supposed to be interested in what sounds best and all
> that, but it just ain't realistic for anyone (unless you have no holes
> in your 20,000 + vinyl collection) to ignore CD altogether and be a
> vinyl purist. (Unless you love the sound of vinyl play back above other
> kinds of music you can get only on CD)
I was one (a vinyl purist) . . . until this past summer when the editor (who
is himself a vinyl addict) of *Audio Imagen,* the South American magazine I
write for, issued me a loaner CD player (and about a dozen CDs) with the
directive (in not so many words) to "Get with it!"
Me -- *Anna Logg* -- of all people! I mean, I didn't start calling myself
that for nuthin' you know.
So I plugged the !!@#$!/&@$!! thing in, very reluctantly, I might add, and
grit (gritted?) my teeth and sat down to listen to a CD, fully prepared to
absolutely LOATH it, when what to my wondering ears . . . ?
Well, first of all, I picked the one CD in the lot he'd given me that had
music I really really like -- suites from the Bernstein's "Fancy Free" and "On
The Town" done by Slatkin and the SLSO. (Hey, guys, this is #1 on Anna's
personal superdisc list. Just a wonderful recording -- incredible sound and an
excellent performance. (EMI CDC-7 4752)
But I digress. Not only did it not sound loathsome, it actually sounded
pretty nice. And this was with all my old stuff -- IMF Monitors (Mark IVs),
the Sumo Andromeda and Electra Plus, plus old Monster Cable interconnects. In
fact, I got to thinking that maybe this was the answer to get listenable
digital sound: old stuff sounds better. <shrug> But in all seriousness, while
not quite up to the detail, "life" and musical authority of most LPs, it was
something I never expected it to be -- at least for me -- *listenable* and
enjoyable, nonetheless.
>
> So I wanted to ask if anyone has seriously screwed around with CD
> transports/drives DACs and has made any discoveries that are
> interesting? This is in the hopes that an interesting thread will come
> of it....
Well, I know this is mostly a DIY crowd, but I'll share with you a wonderful
secret:
http://www.margules.com.mx/magenta/af24.html. This will make your CDs sound
absolutely jaw-dropping close to analog.
>
> Anti-flame disclaimer: I know CD is crap etc., etc., limited bandwidth,
> resolution etc. etc.,
Not with the above gizmo. Trust me on this. I actually have started buying
my own CD's since I began using it in my system. It's opened up a whole new
world of repertory done in the last decade that I thought was tragically
consigned to Rotten Record Land.
> and I know that 24/96 exists (but I just can't see
> that its going to become the dominant music format -- there will be a
> few hundred special discs that will go very quickly in and out of
> print).
>
> And listen, CD has one great advantage over LPs (as do 101/2" reels and
> DAT and cassette for that matter), you get a 70+ minutes of continuous
> uninterrupted music....
>
> The continuity of music is a very important part of the musical
> experience, don't you think?
It IS nice to have fewer interruptions, and that is of course one of the CD's
major strengths. But I happily get up every 15 minutes to change the 45 rpm
Classic Records issues. I don't mind that kind of sacrifice for sound to die
for like that. Besides, I grew up hearing 78's -- hell, it wasn't until they
invented the LP that I found out that the Grand March from "Aida" didn't STOP
in the middle! :-)
>
> I know CD is kinda anti the whole back to nature vibe of our triode DIY
Gee, is that what it's all about? Are tubes recyclable, or is it that they
were thought to be an endangered species?
> thang, but hey, I ain't going to give up eating meat or stop listening
> to CDs. I'd rather have pairs of 35 mm or 70 mm movie projectors and a
> projection booth and screening room in my apartment too, but the only
> thing stopping me it is SO inconvenient to get prints, not to mention a
> good projectionist! (Please don't take this seriously!)
Actually, between the current health of the LP, the development of devices
like the ADE 24 to bring out the *real* music formerly hidden in digital, and
the 24/96 technology which is quite special and will, I believe, take a firm
foothold in two-channel audio, we now have a wealth of choices. So cheer up --
I think it is indeed the best of all possible worlds.
Best wishes,
Valerie Ann(a)
p.s The CD player is called Musical Design. It sells for $400. All my
audiophile acquaintances who have been here and heard it are amazed at how
close it comes to their megabuck CD systems, even without the gizmo. But they
were also amazed at how the gizmo improved even their megabuck CD systems, too
. . . .
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: That ole devil CD
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:31:22 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n499
Mark, Others,
Me and three riends have spent last three years on developping a DAC. We
spent a hell of a time on the jitter subject.
Jitter matters !. it is my feeling that CD quality can be made very high,
within the given standard
I am looking forward to 96 kHz, what I heard until now is very
promissing
Besides jitter well known subjects shall be taken into account
1-power supply
2-analogue output stage / filtering
3-digital circuit supply decoupling
4-floorplan / layout
5-??
In the end no news under the sun, but after all we found we learned a
lot. The jitter performance that we wanted to maintain all over the
circuit board forced us to use a 4-layer PCB. You do not find that with
many manufacturers, if not at all
CD is a medium with possibilities, the problem however is that it takes
time to figure out the merrits, as with Vinyl and tape too
We are starting another 10 year "figuring out" once DVD is out on the
market
In the mean time: Make sure to have at least one medium that you enjoy
listening to
Guido
At 08:15 21-11-98 -0500, Mark Donen wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt>Hi All,
All this talk of record players has made me think. Listen, what about CD?
The damned things are a given reality (you can't just ignore) they ain't
going away...
I know that we are supposed to be interested in what sounds best and all
that, but it just ain't realistic for anyone (unless you have no holes in
your 20,000 + vinyl collection) to ignore CD altogether and be a vinyl
purist. (Unless you love the sound of vinyl play back above other kinds
of music you can get only on CD)
So I wanted to ask if anyone has seriously screwed around with CD
transports/drives DACs and has made any discoveries that are interesting?
This is in the hopes that an interesting thread will come of it....
<underline>Anti-flame disclaimer</underline>: I know CD is crap etc.,
etc., limited bandwidth, resolution etc. etc., and I know that 24/96
exists (but I just can't see that its going to become the dominant music
format -- there will be a few hundred special discs that will go very
quickly in and out of print).
And listen, CD has one great advantage over LPs (as do 101/2" reels and
DAT and cassette for that matter), you get a 70+ minutes of continuous
uninterrupted music....
The continuity of music is a very important part of the musical
experience, don't you think?
I know CD is kinda anti the whole back to nature vibe of our triode DIY
thang, but hey, I ain't going to give up eating meat or stop listening to
CDs. I'd rather have pairs of 35 mm or 70 mm movie projectors and a
projection booth and screening room in my apartment too, but the only
thing stopping me it is <underline>SO</underline> inconvenient to get
prints, not to mention a good projectionist! (Please don't take this
seriously!)
Thanks,
Mark
</excerpt>
=========================================================================
From: "Cameron Brook" <cambrook@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: That ole devil CD
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:43:00 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n499
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE16BD.46F45400
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Is there any chance that your DAC project might be made available to the
Joes of the world? I'm sure that a few of us would be very interested.
Me and three riends have spent last three years on developping a DAC. We
spent a hell of a time on the jitter subject.
Jitter matters !. it is my feeling that CD quality can be made very
high, within the given standard
I am looking forward to 96 kHz, what I heard until now is very
promissing
Besides jitter well known subjects shall be taken into account
1-power supply
2-analogue output stage / filtering
3-digital circuit supply decoupling
4-floorplan / layout
5-??
In the end no news under the sun, but after all we found we learned a
lot. The jitter performance that we wanted to maintain all over the circuit
board forced us to use a 4-layer PCB. You do not find that with many
manufacturers, if not at all
CD is a medium with possibilities, the problem however is that it takes
time to figure out the merrits, as with Vinyl and tape too
We are starting another 10 year "figuring out" once DVD is out on the
market
In the mean time: Make sure to have at least one medium that you enjoy
listening to
Guido
- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE16BD.46F45400
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Is there any chance that your =
DAC project=20
might be made available to the Joes of the world? I'm sure that a few of =
us=20
would be very interested.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
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and three riends have spent last three years on developping a DAC. =
We spent=20
a hell of a time on the jitter subject.<BR><BR>Jitter matters !. it =
is my=20
feeling that CD quality can be made very high, within the given=20
standard<BR><BR>I am looking forward to 96 kHz, what I heard until =
now is=20
very promissing<BR><BR>Besides jitter well known subjects shall be =
taken=20
into account<BR><BR>1-power supply<BR>2-analogue output stage /=20
filtering<BR>3-digital circuit supply decoupling<BR>4-floorplan /=20
layout<BR>5-??<BR><BR>In the end no news under the sun, but after =
all we=20
found we learned a lot. The jitter performance that we wanted to =
maintain=20
all over the circuit board forced us to use a 4-layer PCB. You do =
not find=20
that with many manufacturers, if not at all<BR><BR>CD is a medium =
with=20
possibilities, the problem however is that it takes time to figure =
out the=20
merrits, as with Vinyl and tape too<BR><BR>We are starting another =
10 year=20
"figuring out" once DVD is out on the market<BR><BR>In the =
mean=20
time: Make sure to have at least one medium that you enjoy listening =
to<BR><BR>Guido<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE16BD.46F45400--
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: That ole devil CD
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:38:33 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n500
At 08:43 23-11-98 +0800, Cameron Brook wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt><excerpt><fontfamily><param>Comic</param>Is there any chance
that your DAC project might be made available to the Joes of the world?
I'm sure that a few of us would be very
interested.<color><param>0606,0000,0000</param>
</color></fontfamily></excerpt></excerpt><<<<<<<<
We have een thinking on putting the design on a web-side, and to start
selling the PCBs. However, all of us have regular jobs (three Within
Philips, the fourt within a small high-end eectronics company) we have to
consider the work that we might expect with "commercial" activities.
If I have news you'll hear it on the joenet, sure
Guido
>>>>
<excerpt><excerpt><fontfamily><param>Comic</param><color><param>0606,0000,0000</param>
Me and three riends have spent last three years on developping a
DAC. We spent a hell of a time on the jitter subject.
Jitter matters !. it is my feeling that CD quality can be made very
high, within the given standard
I am looking forward to 96 kHz, what I heard until now is very
promissing
Besides jitter well known subjects shall be taken into account
1-power supply
2-analogue output stage / filtering
3-digital circuit supply decoupling
4-floorplan / layout
5-??
In the end no news under the sun, but after all we found we learned
a lot. The jitter performance that we wanted to maintain all over
the circuit board forced us to use a 4-layer PCB. You do not find
that with many manufacturers, if not at all
CD is a medium with possibilities, the problem however is that it
takes time to figure out the merrits, as with Vinyl and tape too
We are starting another 10 year "figuring out" once DVD is out on
the market
In the mean time: Make sure to have at least one medium that you
enjoy listening to
Guido
</color></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Comic</param><color><param>0606,0000,0000</param>
</color></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Comic</param><color><param>0606,0000,0000</param>
</color></fontfamily>
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (Dave Slagle)
Subject: Re: That ole devil DDE 1.0 CD
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:53:21 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n498
>Jc sent me a tube gain stage that i use with a AA 1.0 . Very nice . A
>friend in NY named Eric Stateman also has one . Recently he took it over
>to sound by singer , a hi zoot , big buck NY snob hi fi store . This
>piece smoked every thing in the place except a 7 grand mark levenson ,
>close .. the levenson was a little better
if you use a trannie on the output in place of the dc blocking cap, I bet
it will be a dead heat with the levenson... kudo's to jc and arthur et al
for this neat little trick... hell the DDE 1.0's are a first generation
bitstream D2A with lots o problems and was designed to a price point (with
a little help from a fellow joenetter...
a while ago, I had the hotshot Audio note giant killer CD player, and the
digital out to my hack DDE sounded more musical, some present concurred,
some disagreed...(the ones that disagreed also liked the hexfreds vs. an
83...)
a major thanks to JC, Arthur, Gary, LD john L, Kal, frank etc... for
helping me muss with one of these puppies... I haven't smoked it yet!
Getting the sound I am getting out of a DAC that everyone laughs at is
truly the spirit of joenet.
THANKS
dave
=========================================================================
From: Aernoud van der Wielen <aernoud@ixe.net>
Subject: Re: That ole devil DDE 1.0 CD
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:59:22 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n500
Hi,
At 12:53 PM 11/21/98 -0800, Dave Slagle wrote:
>
>>Jc sent me a tube gain stage that i use with a AA 1.0 . Very nice . A
>>friend in NY named Eric Stateman also has one . Recently he took it over
>>to sound by singer , a hi zoot , big buck NY snob hi fi store . This
>>piece smoked every thing in the place except a 7 grand mark levenson ,
>>close .. the levenson was a little better
>
>if you use a trannie on the output in place of the dc blocking cap, I bet
>it will be a dead heat with the levenson... kudo's to jc and arthur et al
>for this neat little trick... hell the DDE 1.0's are a first generation
>bitstream D2A with lots o problems and was designed to a price point (with
>a little help from a fellow joenetter...
>
>a while ago, I had the hotshot Audio note giant killer CD player, and the
>digital out to my hack DDE sounded more musical, some present concurred,
>some disagreed...(the ones that disagreed also liked the hexfreds vs. an
>83...)
I can confirm this one.
Just bought this AN CD player as a transport for my AN DAC-5,
and it really killed my multi K$ Mark Levinson CD-Drive (No. 37).
Bomb-proof casing and ceramic knobs don't do the trick. Output trannies do.
Aernoud
>
>a major thanks to JC, Arthur, Gary, LD john L, Kal, frank etc... for
>helping me muss with one of these puppies... I haven't smoked it yet!
>Getting the sound I am getting out of a DAC that everyone laughs at is
>truly the spirit of joenet.
>
>THANKS
>
>dave
>
>
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
A.J. van der Wielen Managing Consultant
The Unix Group Holding b.v. Internet Exchange Europe b.v.
www.tug.nl Unix Support Nederland b.v.
aernoud@ixe.net +31 70 360 03 79 (IXE office)
Lange Voorhout 9 +31 70 363 04 70 (IXE fax)
2514 EA The Hague +31 70 363 04 62 (USN office)
The Netherlands +31 70 363 04 70 (USN fax)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The strongest indication that there is intelligent life out there
is that they have not tried to contact us"
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: THD of 12AX7 versus bias and output level.
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:45:07 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n133
Hello,
Thanks to the numerous ones who reply to my demand of hosting 2 or 3 pictures.
For the moment there is only one picture available.
You can see it on Dan Cheever's webpages at:
http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/main.htm
You can directly access to the picture at:
http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/12AXD.jpg
Many thanks to Dan Cheever for hosting that image and the other ones I send
to him few months ago.
The new picture is related to the distortion of a 12AX7 with a resistive
load, the schematics of the tested stage looks like this:
B+=300V .
| .
R2 = 150 kiloohms .
| .
o----------Output .
| (Zin measurement > 1Megohm) .
Plate .
Input o---C1---o--------Grid .
| Cathod 12AX7 (1/2 tube) .
Zout signal | | .
generator R1 = 51k o-------o .
= 600 ohms | | | .
| R adj C2 .
| | | .
Ground o--------o----------o-------o .
The curves were obtained from my own numerous measurements.
Please notice the groove of very low distortion for output level lesser
under 5V RMS and Vgk around -0.38V.
If we take an output signal the level of which is 3 V RMS, the THD for Vgk =
- -0.38V (DCV) is 0.01% that is 20 times lower than the distortion for Vgk =
- -1.5V.
I'll try to finish that weekend another picture showing the domains within
which H2 is dominant (and the domain in which H3 is dominant too).
I can add that in that groove H3 distortion is dominant, but in fact it can
be an advantage in a 2 stage device (preamp or amp). If we take as an
example a 2 stages preamplifier with a 12AX7 input stage and if we use a
- -0.38V bias, as there is nearly no H2 in that groove, there will be no
cancellation of H2 at the second stage, if we select a second stage with H2
dominant we can obtain at the output of the whole device the correct amount
of H2 and H3 for the whole preamp to sound natural.
Further pictures will be related on H2 and H3 dominant domain and on the Vgk
(DC V) evolution versus output (input) level, interesting to discuss the
behaviour of such a stage on transitories.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: THD of 12AX7 versus bias and output level.
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:00:11 +0000 (GMT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n133
Jean-Michel,
This is great stuff, many thanks for sharing it with us.
For Vgk > -0.2 V the distortion again increases, presumably due to grid
current? So basically you have to drive the valve quite hard to get the
distortion down. Is this a general trend with most valves?
Regards
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk
"..biology is what you do when you don't have the maths for real
science.." (sliders)
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Le Cleac'h J.-M. wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Thanks to the numerous ones who reply to my demand of hosting 2 or 3 pictures.
>
> For the moment there is only one picture available.
>
> You can see it on Dan Cheever's webpages at:
> http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/main.htm
>
> You can directly access to the picture at:
> http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/12AXD.jpg
>
> Many thanks to Dan Cheever for hosting that image and the other ones I send
> to him few months ago.
>
> The new picture is related to the distortion of a 12AX7 with a resistive
> load, the schematics of the tested stage looks like this:
>
> B+=300V .
> | .
> R2 = 150 kiloohms .
> | .
> o----------Output .
> | (Zin measurement > 1Megohm) .
> Plate .
> Input o---C1---o--------Grid .
> | Cathod 12AX7 (1/2 tube) .
> Zout signal | | .
> generator R1 = 51k o-------o .
> = 600 ohms | | | .
> | R adj C2 .
> | | | .
> Ground o--------o----------o-------o .
>
> The curves were obtained from my own numerous measurements.
>
> Please notice the groove of very low distortion for output level lesser
> under 5V RMS and Vgk around -0.38V.
> If we take an output signal the level of which is 3 V RMS, the THD for Vgk =
> -0.38V (DCV) is 0.01% that is 20 times lower than the distortion for Vgk =
> -1.5V.
>
> I'll try to finish that weekend another picture showing the domains within
> which H2 is dominant (and the domain in which H3 is dominant too).
>
> I can add that in that groove H3 distortion is dominant, but in fact it can
> be an advantage in a 2 stage device (preamp or amp). If we take as an
> example a 2 stages preamplifier with a 12AX7 input stage and if we use a
> -0.38V bias, as there is nearly no H2 in that groove, there will be no
> cancellation of H2 at the second stage, if we select a second stage with H2
> dominant we can obtain at the output of the whole device the correct amount
> of H2 and H3 for the whole preamp to sound natural.
>
> Further pictures will be related on H2 and H3 dominant domain and on the Vgk
> (DC V) evolution versus output (input) level, interesting to discuss the
> behaviour of such a stage on transitories.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: THD of 12AX7 versus bias and output level.
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:13:52 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n134
At 18:00 12/12/1997 +0000, Simon Busbridge wrote:
>For Vgk > -0.2 V the distortion again increases, presumably due to grid
>current?
Yes, that's right. I have to add, that in that "lower" zone of the picture,
the H2 distortion differs from 180° from the one in the "upper" zone.
IMHO, the zone inside which the distortion is minimal is a zone in which the
grid current through the grid resistor (51k) causes at the grid the addition
to the input signal of a kind of "error signal" (without reducing the gain
still equal to 63.5 in my test) counterbalancing the H2 normal distortion of
the tube.
For the 12AX7 the effect is "usable" with output level lower than 5V RMS. It
could be interesting to study that phenomenon with other tubes.
In the lower part of the diagram, the error signal becomes larger than the
original H2 distortion of the tube that's why you obtain a "negative " H2.
Still in the minimal distortion zone, but above 5V RMS at the output, the DC
component of the grid current is no more negligeible and the mean potential
of Vgk becomes more and more negative due to the interelectrods capacitance
of the tube. I'll send a diagram about evolution of Vgk soon...
> So basically you have to drive the valve quite hard to get the
>distortion down. Is this a general trend with most valves?
If you use a resistive load you'll have to drive the tube relatively hard to
benefit of the effect but if it is used just in a preamp, (and for output
signals < 5V ) then you can use a smaller B+, 100V by example so the overall
dissipated power will be low.
Also, in the case you use a current source (< 1mA) as the load the tube is
no more driven hot.
Best regards
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: The 1947 pages
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:32:58 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n390
My apologies to Reid and everyone for my earlier lack of clarity. This
is in relation to the cathode battery thread of a couple weeks ago. I
chimed in with a related circuit, which seems to have been
misunderstood. I'm afraid my writing is not always as clear as I think
it is!!
I've never heard of nor seen any reference to the cathode battery
before Reid came up with it. In fact, I first heard of it because Doc
B. was using it based on Reid's post - this was before I had been on
this list. And btw, it sounds great, to my ears.
What I saw in a 1947 publication was a completely different
arangement, with a battery in series with the grid so that the (+ end
of the battery) input to the stage is at ground DC potential, and the
cathode is also grounded. No capacitors (unless you count the battery
as one). The - end of the battery goes to the grid and nowhere else. I
have not seen this arrangement before or since, nor have I ever heard
it. It may well sound like crap. I hope to try it eventually and
report.
- -Paul Joppa
Reid Welch wrote:
... snip ...
> >> OK then... the 1947 design has a grid biasing battery in series with the
> >> grid. I see how the result may be nominally identical to a
> >_cathode_ series
> >> battery but still, in my opinion, it isn't quite the same thing since the
> >> cathode battery handles all the cathode current.
> >
> >Certainly not the same thing! Sorry I wasn't more clear initially; the
> >reason I mentioned it at all is that it _is_ different...
>
> Ah, but in the joepost where you came in, we were talking about precidents
> for the cathode battery idea, and you said to the list that you'd seen it
> (or you were pretty sure you'd seen it- I forget which) in the 1947
> textbook. Yet the CB isn't quite there after all. So now the few people who
> followed my thread still figure that the cathode battery was described in
> 1947, when in fact it was not to our knowlege.
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@lscpdx.latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: The 1947 pages
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:26:05 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n390
On Fri, Aug 14, 1998 at 07:52:48PM -0400, Reid Welch wrote:
> No apologies needed, Paul. It's just curious to that such a simple
> technique as the cathode battery seems not to have surfaced in the western
> world before I introduced it on this here list in Nov. 1996. I beleive
> Grego was unimpressed at the time, but my old files are lost.
ooooh, undercurrent!
Well I don't know about that Reid. Heck I have used it on at least half
the (hiFi) amps I have played with since your posts! I have seen old figures
that show a voltage source in the cathode and a battery is the real-life
equivelant. But I didn't think of trying it! It is simple and elegant
and works (in some cases). The down side is limitted voltage options.
By the way Reid, I do appologize for not having mentioned this contribution
in the B52 article. I do try to place credit where credit is due. It was an
oversight, definately not a premeditated omittion. If my appreciation was
delayed or obscured, be it known now.
> Upon inquiry Takuji told me that cathode battery bias was already known in
> Japan as "Kotei bias". So it's not my "invention" per se.
who cares Reid? Loose the self-praise, you don't need it. Oh, I don't know
maybe you gotta blow your own horn once in a while and I'm an ogre. At any
rate, We know who you are! You do cool stuff, a very likeable guy and write
better than most (me!).
I am jealeous of your pitch too. Anyone who can tune a piano is big cool
in my book. Sharp dresser too B^). Enjoyed meeting you at VSAC last year.
Am really bummed I won't be there this year....
> Some say that there's nothing basically new to be done with tubes. The
I wouldn't go that far. Though sometimes people think they personnally
invented tube audio. That always gets a rise out of me. But for the most
part, we are still in a phase of rediscovery. I believe we will graduate.
> cathode battery shows that there may be a few tricks waiting for invention,
> or at least waiting new appreciation in the light of today's audiophile
> pursuits.
Ah, that second part is equally important. So much was long forgotten.
When you find it again, then it is your duty to bring it to light. Most
of the time that is what we are doing. It is a shame that we have to
reinvent the wheel, that so much got buried for so long.
While appologies are going out, I add one for throwing too much water.
I still learn alot more than I add to this group. Love it.
I get grouchy in the presence of self-proclaimation and elitism.
> Who would've beleived even a few years ago that ITs would come
> back as they have? When I came on the list two years ago there had been no
> talk of ITs so far as I know.
And how clearly I remember going through a period of time when I did
everything possible to avoid transformers! I was never able to create
something better, but a lot lighter and smaller!!! good thing I never
quite threw them away...
Keep searching brother Reid, and keep telling us what you find. And
I will go take my prozak...
- -grego
Hey I get to plant another tree tonight. That will make dougie smile B^)
maybe I'll light some filaments too. have a good weekend ya'll.
=========================================================================
From: "Reid Welch" <rewelch@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: The 1947 pages
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:52:48 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n390
No apologies needed, Paul. It's just curious to that such a simple
technique as the cathode battery seems not to have surfaced in the western
world before I introduced it on this here list in Nov. 1996. I beleive
Grego was unimpressed at the time, but my old files are lost.
Upon inquiry Takuji told me that cathode battery bias was already known in
Japan as "Kotei bias". So it's not my "invention" per se.
Some say that there's nothing basically new to be done with tubes. The
cathode battery shows that there may be a few tricks waiting for invention,
or at least waiting new appreciation in the light of today's audiophile
pursuits. Who would've beleived even a few years ago that ITs would come
back as they have? When I came on the list two years ago there had been no
talk of ITs so far as I know.
Reid
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
>Behalf Of Paul Joppa
>Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 5:33 PM
>To: Reid Welch; sound@deliverator.io.com
>Subject: Re: The 1947 pages
>
>
>My apologies to Reid and everyone for my earlier lack of clarity. This
>is in relation to the cathode battery thread of a couple weeks ago. I
>chimed in with a related circuit, which seems to have been
>misunderstood. I'm afraid my writing is not always as clear as I think
>it is!!
>
>I've never heard of nor seen any reference to the cathode battery
>before Reid came up with it. In fact, I first heard of it because Doc
>B. was using it based on Reid's post - this was before I had been on
>this list. And btw, it sounds great, to my ears.
>
>What I saw in a 1947 publication was a completely different
>arrangement, with a battery in series with the grid so that the (+ end
>of the battery) input to the stage is at ground DC potential, and the
>cathode is also grounded. No capacitors (unless you count the battery
>as one). The - end of the battery goes to the grid and nowhere else. I
>have not seen this arrangement before or since, nor have I ever heard
>it. It may well sound like crap. I hope to try it eventually and
>report.
>
>-Paul Joppa
>
>
>Reid Welch wrote:
>... snip ...
>> >> OK then... the 1947 design has a grid biasing battery in
>series with the
>> >> grid. I see how the result may be nominally identical to a
>> >_cathode_ series
>> >> battery but still, in my opinion, it isn't quite the same
>thing since the
>> >> cathode battery handles all the cathode current.
>> >
>> >Certainly not the same thing! Sorry I wasn't more clear initially; the
>> >reason I mentioned it at all is that it _is_ different...
>>
>> Ah, but in the joepost where you came in, we were talking about
>precedents
>> for the cathode battery idea, and you said to the list that you'd seen it
>> (or you were pretty sure you'd seen it- I forget which) in the 1947
>> textbook. Yet the CB isn't quite there after all. So now the
>few people who
>> followed my thread still figure that the cathode battery was described in
>> 1947, when in fact it was not to our knowledge.
>
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com>
Subject: Re: The 1947 pages
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:17:25 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n390
The cathode battery scheme was used in one of the Neumann cutting system
preamps (I forget what it was called). This preamp was a real smoker. We
A-B'ed it with a Marantz Model one and it made the Marantz sound like a
car radio. I think the Neumann may have been a WV-1 or something like
that. If you see one, buy it! Joe
=========================================================================
From: RICHARD JONES <RJ0101@Sprynet.Com>
Subject: The 50
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:43:45 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n535
How does the 50 compare to like 45, 2A3 etc??
it seems to be a bit more powerfull.... but how hard is it to drive???
Just curious.. does any one have any 50's for sale, trade etc..
I do have a Denon cd-player.... (for trade maybe)
Rich
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: The 50
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:21:27 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n535
At 12:43 AM -0600 12/12/98, RICHARD JONES wrote:
>How does the 50 compare to like 45, 2A3 etc??
>
>it seems to be a bit more powerfull.... but how hard is it to drive???
>
>Just curious.. does any one have any 50's for sale, trade etc..
>
>I do have a Denon cd-player.... (for trade maybe)
The 50 is very different from anything else I've heard. Cool tonality,
big, deep soundstage. MUST be driven by either a direct-coupled CF or
IT--maximum grid resistance is 10K. These were made for IT-coupled
circuits. But it shouldn't be a problem to construct a driver for it.
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: theater sound eq
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 09:42:18 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n281
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD8178.15476120
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Found this interesting post on theater eq and differences in nearfield =
and farfield response.
<!--StartFragment-->
ON THE X-CURVE =
************** =20
From: Tomlinson Holman 76327,1135Film sound uses an=20
internationally standardized frequency response curve, called curve X of =
ISO=20
Standard 2969. In the US, it is curve X of ANSI SMPTE 202M. This curve =
calls for=20
flat frequency response from 50 Hz to 2 kHz, then the following =
response:2k0 0=20
dB reference 2k5 -1 dB relative 3k15 -2 4k0 -3 5k0 -4 6k3 -5 8k0 -6 10k0 =
- -7 12k5=20
- -9 16k0 -11This response is modified by room volume, so this is the =
prescribed=20
response for an average theater (500 seats), with greater rolloff in a =
larger=20
room, and less in a smaller one.Now, you ask reasonably, why would I =
ever want=20
to listen to a sound system which is so non-flat? Well, every =
practitioner who=20
has bothered to do a competent experiment has come to the same =
conclusion: a=20
high-frequency rolloff is needed for distant loudspeakers in a large =
room if=20
they are to match the spectral balance of a flat loudspeaker nearby the=20
listener. This arises due to the diffraction and reflection effects =
about the=20
head and pinnae. Although this knowledge first arose in sound =
reinforcement=20
systems and was called a "house curve," it became evident in =
the early=20
'70's that something like the house curve used in p.a. was needed in =
film sound=20
since adjusting for "flat" in the far field was clearly too =
bright. So=20
an experiment was done by Ioan Allen of Dolby Laboratories at a dubbing =
stage in=20
England where he compared the far field dubbing loudspeaker (a Vitavox) =
with a=20
near-field flat speaker (a KEF I believe). This experiment led to the =
curve from=20
2-8 kHz, and beyond has been a gradual bandwidth extension throughout =
the years.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD8178.15476120
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Found this interesting post on =
theater eq and=20
differences in nearfield and farfield response.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2><!--StartFragment--><BR> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
ON THE=20
X-CURVE =