Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 1
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: VA5300
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:34:16 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n275
I got a chance to listen to a pair of Valve Arts 5300s over the weekend. I
put them in my 12AU7/6A5G/VV52 circuit, running at 400Vp/130mA with the
Magnequest RS-520 outputs and ProAc Response 2s.
I was impressed. They powered the ProAcs nicely. They were very musical
and non-fatiguing. They are indeed very clean on top and sweet and rounded
through the midrange. They do not have the openness and majesty of the
VV52s, nor the high-frequency spread and fine detail (is this what Doc and
Lynn meant by "smearing"?). We've all heard this effect--the difference
between delineation in massed strings and the strings sounding like one
body. Not a bad thing, per se, but perhaps this is Gordon's objection to
the graphite plates. Different components might open them up more, or they
might not be capable of this level of detail. There was a hint of veiling
and perhaps a lack of "magic", but if I did not have the VV52s I would be
satisfied to work with these and get the best out of them. A fairer
comparison might be to say they trounce the older inexpensive Chinese
metal-plate 300Bs, which to my ears definitely smudge and generalize the
details. Are they better than the Valve Arts metal plates? Or the Sovteks
and Svetlanas? Dunno. Power-wise they offer the average DIYer the chance
to get 15+ watts of SE power with low voltages and affordable components.
I can't see how one could lose by purchasing a pair. I would be interested
to hear them in a PP circuit, or the cheaper graphite version ($130 a pair)
might be a real bargain in this instance, where four VV tubes or 300Bs
would be prohibitively expensive.
Grover
=========================================================================
From: "Doc B." <bottlehead@silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: VA5300B valve
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:59:08 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
Yes, the 5300 is a unique beast. At first glance it's outside looks like a
KR knockoff, but the internal structure is very different - carbon anode,
and 5V only filament, which the manufacturer claims has extremely high
emission for a 5V fil. Operating wise, it does seem to be a plug in
replacement for the VV52, with the caveat that it runs at 5V. Unfortunately
I couldn't try the tubes in my amp, because it was set up for 6.3V
filaments.
Considering the sound of other tubes I've heard with carbon anodes and
non-thoriated filaments, like a Red Bank 6080, which is OK, but a bit rough
and uncivilized, this combination of plate and filament makes the great
sound of these tubes all the more intriguing. I had read in the past that
this tube wasn't so hot. I don't know what the circumstances were, but it
just goes to reinforce my philosophy of shut up and listen for yourself
before you make the final choice.
Doc B.
VALVE
coming soon - www.bottlehead.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: Francois Yves Le Gal <flegal@allaban.fr>
To: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: VA5300B valve
>At 12:26 05/05/98 +0930, you wrote:
>>And what is the difference between a 5300B, 4300B, etc. etc. and a 300B?
>>Would one use the same operating point for all of them?
>
>The 4300B was the UK STC version of the WE 300B, using exactly the same,
>er, the same everything.
>
>OTOH, the 5300B seems to be quite a different tube when it comes to
>construction or materials.
>
>
>François Yves Le Gal Allaban WebSystems Tél : +33 (0)1 4756 0194
>Directeur Associé 70, rue Rivay Fax : +33 (0)1 4756 0305
>flegal@allaban.fr F-92300 Levallois-Perret URL : http://www.allaban.fr
>
>
=========================================================================
From: flegal@allaban.fr (Francois Yves Le Gal)
Subject: Re: VA5300B valve
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 09:25:22 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
At 12:26 05/05/98 +0930, you wrote:
>And what is the difference between a 5300B, 4300B, etc. etc. and a 300B?
>Would one use the same operating point for all of them?
The 4300B was the UK STC version of the WE 300B, using exactly the same,
er, the same everything.
OTOH, the 5300B seems to be quite a different tube when it comes to
construction or materials.
François Yves Le Gal Allaban WebSystems Tél : +33 (0)1 4756 0194
Directeur Associé 70, rue Rivay Fax : +33 (0)1 4756 0305
flegal@allaban.fr F-92300 Levallois-Perret URL : http://www.allaban.fr
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@roads.sa.gov.au>
Subject: VA5300B valve
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:26:58 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
Does anyone know what this valve sells for?
And what is the difference between a 5300B, 4300B, etc. etc. and a 300B?
Would one use the same operating point for all of them?
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@roads.sa.gov.au
- -----Original Message-----
From: Doc B.
Subject: ear openers at the VALVE meeting
......
Ed Fallon brought in a very cool 80 lb. stereo breadboard amp which used
the
Valve Art VA5300Bs.
Holy s**t! That is a fabulous tube.
........
VA5300Bs, highly recommended, gotta get me some...
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: RE: VA5300B valve
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:45:08 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
Alfia wondered how much there were going for in the states. I checked
the Angela instruments site, and if I have it right Steve is selling them for
$89 each, $178 for a matched pair. The also sell regular 300B models,
and a souped up 300B as well.
Steve C.
A loving heart is the beginning of
all knowledge. - Carlyle
=========================================================================
From: alfia mak <alfiamak@hkstar.com>
Subject: RE: VA5300B valve
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:41:15 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
I heard the VA5300 can be a direct plug in for the VV300B as well from a HK reviewer, I don't know h
ow much they are selling it for in the state, can anyone give me some idea. I heard they are selling
for HK$1,900 for a matched pair here. I will try to get a pair this week.
AMAK
- -----Original Message-----
From: Doc B. [SMTP:bottlehead@silverlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 10:59 PM
To: sound@deliverator.io.com
Subject: Re: VA5300B valve
Yes, the 5300 is a unique beast. At first glance it's outside looks like a
KR knockoff, but the internal structure is very different - carbon anode,
and 5V only filament, which the manufacturer claims has extremely high
emission for a 5V fil. Operating wise, it does seem to be a plug in
replacement for the VV52, with the caveat that it runs at 5V. Unfortunately
I couldn't try the tubes in my amp, because it was set up for 6.3V
filaments.
Considering the sound of other tubes I've heard with carbon anodes and
non-thoriated filaments, like a Red Bank 6080, which is OK, but a bit rough
and uncivilized, this combination of plate and filament makes the great
sound of these tubes all the more intriguing. I had read in the past that
this tube wasn't so hot. I don't know what the circumstances were, but it
just goes to reinforce my philosophy of shut up and listen for yourself
before you make the final choice.
Doc B.
VALVE
coming soon - www.bottlehead.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: Francois Yves Le Gal <flegal@allaban.fr>
To: sound@deliverator.io.com <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: VA5300B valve
>At 12:26 05/05/98 +0930, you wrote:
>>And what is the difference between a 5300B, 4300B, etc. etc. and a 300B?
>>Would one use the same operating point for all of them?
>
>The 4300B was the UK STC version of the WE 300B, using exactly the same,
>er, the same everything.
>
>OTOH, the 5300B seems to be quite a different tube when it comes to
>construction or materials.
>
>
>François Yves Le Gal Allaban WebSystems Tél : +33 (0)1 4756 0194
>Directeur Associé 70, rue Rivay Fax : +33 (0)1 4756 0305
>flegal@allaban.fr F-92300 Levallois-Perret URL : http://www.allaban.fr
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: Vacum Transistor
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:57:21 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n006
Guido!
Could you tell a bit about the experience you had with the new KRON Vacum
Transistor. Did it really sound as good as was indicated in the Dutch 'A&T'?
Groetjes
Robert Jorgensen
Robert.Jorgensen@advalvas.be
=========================================================================
From: PJBSLB@aol.com
Subject: Vacuum record cleaner
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:29:17 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n101
I have a friend who has borrowed my Nitty Gritty so often that he wants to
get one of his own. Does anyone have a vacuum record cleaner for sale:
Record Doctor, Nitty Gritty, VPI, Keith Monks, etc? He's even willing to
consider one that's not working. (Gary M., I showed him your plans for a DIY
cleaner, but he didn't feel confident about putting it together and making it
workable -- any update on your experiments?)
TIA,
Pete
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: (Vacuum Transistors)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:37:11 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n201
>Does anyone have any (technical) information on these 'Vacuum Transistors'?
>
>I understand that they are photo multipliers, but I have no idea what a
>photo multipier is, let alone how it works and how it could be used as an
>amplifier. Does anyone have any info? How do they work? How are they used?
Somehow I doubt they are photomultipliers. When I saw the underside of a
Vacuum Transistor amp at the CES, it had the good old UX4 socket below the
mystery device. I'll pass along several rumors (I hope Ken Starr doesn't
give me a summons for saying this) that the VT is simply a VV52 with a
metal can to greatly increase the permitted dissipation.
This in turn allows a really gonzo amount of current to go thru the tube,
something I can believe after hearing 90dB efficient speakers play Bach
organ music at full tilt. What the WE212E does with volts the VT does with
current.
Lynn T. Olson
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Web: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
Editor, Valve & Tube News
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@blackrock.com>
Subject: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:10:11 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n190
For those who find building amps, etc with tubes just too mainstream, I found
the following on the net:
Vacuum Tube Kits-- Not kits to build with vacuum tubes, but kits to
experiment and build vacuum tubes themselves! Hours of fun for the avid
experimentor or radio tinkerer. George Schmermund, 1260 Liberty Way, Suite B,
Vista, CA 92083 (619) 727-6933
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:23:19 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n190
I don't even know how
> hard the vacuum in the average tube is
KR claims 10 to -9 Torr for their tubes, but also says this is theoretical
perfection. Now you know why the damned things cost so much. They send them
up to Mir, take 'em outside, shake out the inner contents, seal 'em up, and
ship them down (leaving a few for spares for the computer)
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: "Frank Deutschmann" <fdeutsch@blackrock.com>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:50:10 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n190
On Feb 11, 6:01pm, Simon Busbridge wrote:
> What! Do they have a www site?
Not that I saw; it was just the brief blurb as an advert on another site.
> How does the normal human being get the vacuum?
You buy it from them; they ship very high-quality, high-purity, lab-grade
vacuum in these very nice blue steel bottles, which make nice flower vases
after you use up all the vacuum....
Seriously, I have no idea; the same site did have a number of adverts for
people trading scientific vacuum equipment, though. I don't even know how
hard the vacuum in the average tube is (as T Dunker asks in a seperate post);
however, the NY public library has an excellent book on general preparation
of vacuum tubes (by Cherry, I think). Interesting stuff, but I imagine its
way out of even the dedicated nut case's reach: the parts need to be too
clean, and you're going to need an induction heater....
- -frank
PS: Anyone know where I can get some barrium getter pellets? ;-)
=========================================================================
From: Michel Paquette <paqm01@GEL.USherb.CA>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:40:27 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n190
Tom wrote:
>>
>> How does the normal human being get the vacuum?
>
> How hard vacuum is needed for a good tube anyway? I have a construction
>plan for an ultra high vacuum pump (got this from Information Unlimited
>in the US) that uses two refrigerator compressors in tandem (this they
>call the "roughing pump", one needs a certain amount of vacuum in order
>to get the diffusion pumps working, the two compressors produce a
>vaccum of about 0.1 mmHg I think (from memory)) - and two mercury
>diffusion pumps. I believe they said this pump system could produce
>a vacuum of a fraction of a micron Hg, good enough for laser tubes.
> I wouldn't know how to get hold of diffusion pumps, but fridge
>compressors wouldn't be that hard to find.
>
Diffusion pumps are quite simple actually. They have no moving parts and
it's simply heated oil that does the pumping action. They do have to be
"roughed out" to work properly, the minimum pressure before the diff. pump
kicks in is about 100 microns (or 1,4 x 10-4 atmospheres).
I don't know about the compressor roughing pumps though.
I suspect the main problems with DIY tubes (many japanese people have tried
DIY 300B type tubes) is the material quality used for the internal parts of
the tube. It may work for a little while but when those impurities start
to diffuse out of the filament...
Michel
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:01:41 +0000 (GMT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n190
What! Do they have a www site?
How does the normal human being get the vacuum?
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
Department of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk
"..biology is what you do when you don't have the maths for real
science.." (sliders)
On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Frank Deutschmann wrote:
>
> For those who find building amps, etc with tubes just too mainstream, I found
> the following on the net:
>
> Vacuum Tube Kits-- Not kits to build with vacuum tubes, but kits to
> experiment and build vacuum tubes themselves! Hours of fun for the avid
> experimentor or radio tinkerer. George Schmermund, 1260 Liberty Way, Suite B,
> Vista, CA 92083 (619) 727-6933
>
>
> -frank
>
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:14:17 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n190
On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Simon Busbridge wrote:
> What! Do they have a www site?
>
> How does the normal human being get the vacuum?
How hard vacuum is needed for a good tube anyway? I have a construction
plan for an ultra high vacuum pump (got this from Information Unlimited
in the US) that uses two refrigerator compressors in tandem (this they
call the "roughing pump", one needs a certain amount of vacuum in order
to get the diffusion pumps working, the two compressors produce a
vaccum of about 0.1 mmHg I think (from memory)) - and two mercury
diffusion pumps. I believe they said this pump system could produce
a vacuum of a fraction of a micron Hg, good enough for laser tubes.
I wouldn't know how to get hold of diffusion pumps, but fridge
compressors wouldn't be that hard to find.
I also have an old handbook about neon sign manufacture (which I got
from Lindsay Publications) that may have some good stuff on vacuum
pumps...
Maybe the guy has some suggestions? Who will be the first to call?
DIY tubes - sounds like hardcore stuff!
Tom D.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.unit.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \------\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone (+47)73916898 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:54:33 +0000 (GMT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n190
Thomas,
You could estimate the vacuum needed very roughly. If you calculated the
mean free path of an electron in thin air and set this to, say, 10 times
the cathode to anode distance it would be about right (i.e. probably the
softest tolerable vacuum). An easy calculation to do....
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
Department of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk
"..biology is what you do when you don't have the maths for real
science.." (sliders)
On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Thomas Dunker wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Simon Busbridge wrote:
>
> > What! Do they have a www site?
> >
> > How does the normal human being get the vacuum?
>
> How hard vacuum is needed for a good tube anyway? I have a construction
> plan for an ultra high vacuum pump (got this from Information Unlimited
> in the US) that uses two refrigerator compressors in tandem (this they
> call the "roughing pump", one needs a certain amount of vacuum in order
> to get the diffusion pumps working, the two compressors produce a
> vaccum of about 0.1 mmHg I think (from memory)) - and two mercury
> diffusion pumps. I believe they said this pump system could produce
> a vacuum of a fraction of a micron Hg, good enough for laser tubes.
> I wouldn't know how to get hold of diffusion pumps, but fridge
> compressors wouldn't be that hard to find.
>
> I also have an old handbook about neon sign manufacture (which I got
> from Lindsay Publications) that may have some good stuff on vacuum
> pumps...
>
> Maybe the guy has some suggestions? Who will be the first to call?
> DIY tubes - sounds like hardcore stuff!
>
>
>
> Tom D.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
> / \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.unit.no/~dunker/horns.html
> | | 7002 Trondheim \
> | | NORWAY \------\ "Those with head above water
> \____/ dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
> |||| phone (+47)73916898 \ (Gene Dalby)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Ron Bales <rbales@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:16:42 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n191
Thomas Dunker wrote:
>
> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Simon Busbridge wrote:
>
> > What! Do they have a www site?
> >
> > How does the normal human being get the vacuum?
> I also have an old handbook about neon sign manufacture (which I got
> from Lindsay Publications) that may have some good stuff on vacuum
> pumps...
The neon sign guys use a combination of a vacuum, gas fill and pump
sequence followed by a burn that can result in some really cool science
fiction destructo effects if done incorrectly. Good buddy of mine
almost put himself out of the sign business experimenting with methods
of getting the wildest detonations from the coolest shaped tubes.
These guys evacuate and cook more glass than anyone else these days and
should have the answers.
ROn
ROn
=========================================================================
From: "Johannes S. Chiu" <jschiu@ctr.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:36:08 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n191
A vacuum of 10^-9 Torr is not that hard to achieve. We routinely
obtain 10^-8 Torr in our lab, and that is using conventional o-rings
in our machine. If you used metal seals, you can get close to 10^-10.
I don't think the gas really matters at that level, but rather the
other contaminants in your system, in particular the any oil
backflowing at the roughing stage. Because of that, diffusion pumps
are hardly used today, instead people relying on turbo molecular drag
pump or other hybrids. High vacuum almost always involves cryo-pumps,
which work by cooling a surface to a few degrees K, so that any gas
that hits that surface gets stuck. Small cryo-pumps can be had for
less than $10,000 US, which is not a huge investment for a small
company, especially when you can sell you products for $500 a
piece.
- --
Johannes S. Chiu
jschiu@ctr.columbia.edu
Columbia University
New York City
=========================================================================
From: An-shyang Chu <achu@sandia.gov>
Subject: Re[2]: Vacuum tube kits
Date: 12 Feb 1998 13:45:21 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n191
Hi,
Johannes Chiu wrote:
>A vacuum of 10^-9 Torr is not that hard to achieve. We routinely
>obtain 10^-8 Torr in our lab, and that is using conventional o-rings
>in our machine. If you used metal seals, you can get close to 10^-10.
>I don't think the gas really matters at that level, but rather the
>other contaminants in your system, in particular the any oil
>backflowing at the roughing stage. Because of that, diffusion pumps
>are hardly used today, instead people relying on turbo molecular drag
>pump or other hybrids. High vacuum almost always involves cryo-pumps,
>which work by cooling a surface to a few degrees K, so that any gas
>that hits that surface gets stuck. .....
Johannes is right, and this is the hard part!! At this level of vacuum, the
pumping system no longer "pump" or "suck" in anyway. It only does its best to
trap or holding-on the passing molecules.... as you can see the size of the
opening (aperture) of the pumping system is very important... bigger the opening
the more chance you have to catch those little critters.
Doc B wrote:
>KR claims 10 to -9 Torr for their tubes, but also says this is theoretical
>perfection. Now you know why the damned things cost so much. They send them
>up to Mir, take 'em outside, shake out the inner contents, seal 'em up, and
>ship them down (leaving a few for spares for the computer)
KR's claims... weeelllll. I do not know their system, so I will not say too
much. BUT! I would LOVE to see their chamber and understand how they get those
molecules out from those tinny 1" opening in a timely way (if they let the
system pump for a week with a pumping stack at 10^-12 Torr, then I can
understand the $$$$ factor)
hopper
p.s. I do not know for fact, but I will wage most vacuum tube is at 10^-6 Torr?
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:55:32 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n193
Hi
Philips (!) used 10-6 in the old days. Too high vaccuum SHORTENS tube life !
Guido
At 15:23 11-2-98 -0800, Bottlehead wrote:
>I don't even know how
>> hard the vacuum in the average tube is
>
>KR claims 10 to -9 Torr for their tubes, but also says this is theoretical
>perfection. Now you know why the damned things cost so much. They send them
>up to Mir, take 'em outside, shake out the inner contents, seal 'em up, and
>ship them down (leaving a few for spares for the computer)
>
>Doc B.
>
>
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vacuum tube kits
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:55:33 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n193
>hopper
>
>p.s. I do not know for fact, but I will wage most vacuum tube is at 10^-6
Torr?
Which comes close to the Philips specifications
Guido
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:30:18 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n070
On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Simon Busbridge wrote:
[KR1]
> Anyone come across this or know it's characteristics? I saw one for the
> first time today - a beautiful globe shape with a pinch at the top. It
> looked much the very old Ediswan "R" bright emitting type from the early
> 1920's. I feel in love with it at first sight (sad!!).
Yes, so did I, until I saw the datasheet. I don't recall the exact numbers
but I was very unimpressed. High Rp, Low mu. The tube nobody asked for,
unless you are looking for a low gain 6SN7....at a huge price!
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped@aol.com
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:02:45 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n070
In a message dated 97-10-15 16:18:10 EDT, Grego wrote:
>Yes, so did I, until I saw the datasheet. I don't recall the exact numbers
>but I was very unimpressed. High Rp, Low mu. The tube nobody asked for,
>unless you are looking for a low gain 6SN7....at a huge price!
Grego: I was surprised to see your printed reaction....and please don't take
this as a flame (I beg of you :=).
But aren't you jumping the gun a bit here...perhaps they sound really
beautiful in a properly executed circuit. Hell....based on their success
with the 32 and 52 tubes I am curious to say the least.
High RP----low mu is your complaint? Many good sounding tubes down the road
had higher Rp's than the 6,000 ohms stated for the one critter....and some
folks don't like the high mu sound (or high transconductance
edginess)....perhaps we should all listen to these first....these are numbers
not qualities....does the solidity of construction recommend itself?
yeah...at a price of like 300 bongo congos a piece...now that is a legit
complaint in my opinion <g>....and sales I would expect will be retarded to
say the least.
Mikey
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Vaic KR1
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:32:02 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n070
Hi Folks,
Anyone come across this or know it's characteristics? I saw one for the
first time today - a beautiful globe shape with a pinch at the top. It
looked much the very old Ediswan "R" bright emitting type from the early
1920's. I feel in love with it at first sight (sad!!).
Dr Simon Busbridge
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk
"..biology is what you do when you don't have the maths for real
science.."
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 AirGapped@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 97-10-15 16:18:10 EDT, Grego wrote:
>
> >Yes, so did I, until I saw the datasheet. I don't recall the exact numbers
> >but I was very unimpressed. High Rp, Low mu. The tube nobody asked for,
> >unless you are looking for a low gain 6SN7....at a huge price!
>
> Grego: I was surprised to see your printed reaction....and please don't take
> this as a flame (I beg of you :=).
Oh Mikey, I just love it when you beg B^)
> But aren't you jumping the gun a bit here...perhaps they sound really
> beautiful in a properly executed circuit. Hell....based on their success
> with the 32 and 52 tubes I am curious to say the least.
Perhaps I am jumping the gun, and I agree completely with your attitude about
sound over specs, but....as a component manufacturer I am more than a little
suprized that they would target a very expensive tube at a market segment that
is already very well serviced by a large variety of very good sounding, very
cheap tubes?
It is not so much the specs, but how the specs relate to the price. I expect
MUCH more for a $300 driver tube. MUCH more! Hell, I want it to do my laundry
and dishes. Hell I want auto-suck!
The 32 and the 52 are well targeted products. I can't wait to get my 52 amps
finished.
> High RP----low mu is your complaint? Many good sounding tubes down the road
> had higher Rp's than the 6,000 ohms stated for the one critter....and some
Yes, and millions of them are still available, cheap, really cheap!
> not qualities....does the solidity of construction recommend itself?
They are very cool looking and look like they are very well made.
> yeah...at a price of like 300 bongo congos a piece...now that is a legit
> complaint in my opinion <g>....and sales I would expect will be retarded to
> say the least.
Yeah, like is it 300 times better than a 6SN7? Ok so maybe it is only
15 times more expensive than the super designer 6SN7.
Now if the KR01 was 10 times cheaper, then I would have already purchased
some! I would have used a KR01 cascade at VSAC...
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: tronan@orion.it.luc.edu (Thomas Ronan)
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:23:02 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
>Mikey,
>
>I have to agree with Grego here. You either want one or the other, but
>not both. Also the curves for these don't stack up to the specs. Actually
>I would want to see a little more gain and a little less plate impedance
>say closer to a 6922: 4-5K ohms Rp, mu=25 or so.
>
>Gordon
Gordon, Grego,
I have to agree with Mikey here. You can ask for all you want from a tube,
but if it sounds like a 6922, who wants it? If the tube has a high Rp,
like 7-10k, and a low mu, say 8, it sounds to me like my most favorite tube
on the planet, the 26. Wait, a 26 made the same way that a VV32 is made?
Wow! Who could ask for more?
I will report soon on whether a spectacular tube like the Western or Vaic
can be paralleled by a simple tube like a 71A. I do know that the 26
preamp brings the same beauty to light that the original WE 300Bs do (at
least until you drop them). If a 71A can bring the same kind of beauty,
purity of tone and essence that the WE does, I'll be sold. You know, a 71A
is just a big 26. Sort of.
Tom
- ------
Thomas Ronan tronan@orion.it.luc.edu
1045 W. Montana, Chicago, IL 60614 773.528.0882
Lowther Club of America, Chicago Representative
=========================================================================
From: Grego Sanguinetti <grego@latticesemi.com>
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:48:13 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Thomas Ronan wrote:
> Gordon, Grego,
>
> I have to agree with Mikey here. You can ask for all you want from a tube,
Oh good, a foursome. Shall we play doubles...
> on the planet, the 26. Wait, a 26 made the same way that a VV32 is made?
> Wow! Who could ask for more?
I would ask for less, like $275 less B^)
> least until you drop them). If a 71A can bring the same kind of beauty,
> purity of tone and essence that the WE does, I'll be sold. You know, a 71A
> is just a big 26. Sort of.
Absolutely Tom, the 71A is a great tube. The 26 is a nice tube also. Both
can be had fairly cheaply too.
So we agree, there are many very nice tubes that will do quite nicely in
place of a KR01, and will cost a very small fraction of the price.
The KR01 is probably alot less microphonic than the 26 or 71A (especially
globes) though.
- -grego
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 97 11:57:03 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
Mikey,
I have to agree with Grego here. You either want one or the other, but
not both. Also the curves for these don't stack up to the specs. Actually
I would want to see a little more gain and a little less plate impedance
say closer to a 6922: 4-5K ohms Rp, mu=25 or so.
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Guido Tent <gtent@ehv.sc.philips.com>
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:25:31 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n071
At 17:32 15-10-97 +0100, Simon Busbridge wrote:
>Hi Folks,
Hi,
>Anyone come across this or know it's characteristics? I saw one for the
>first time today - a beautiful globe shape with a pinch at the top. It
>looked much the very old Ediswan "R" bright emitting type from the early
>1920's. I feel in love with it at first sight (sad!!).
I have been talking with Dr Kron some months ago. He informed me by that
moment that he would introduce some direct heated pre-amp and driver tubes.
I remember him talking about type 1 and 5, old style rounded bulbs
Seems to be one of these
Guido
>Dr Simon Busbridge
>University of Brighton
>Lewes Road
>Moulsecoomb
>Brighton BN2 4GJ
>UNITED KINGDOM
>
>Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
>Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
>e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk
>
>"..biology is what you do when you don't have the maths for real
>science.."
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 10:35:37 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n072
Gang,
I didn't say that I wanted the thing to sound like a 6922, just spec a
little more like it.
Maybe I am looking from a design perspective but I cannot see anyway of
using one of these per channel in any application, preamp, amp etc...
Believe me when I said if I didn't try 30 I tried a 100 ways of making a
preamp out of a pair of these with a ton of paper filled in the trash.
With the high plate rp this does not make for a great driver, except for
maybe an 845 that needs a ton of voltage. But it does not make a great
driver especially for an expanded line of 300B's like the the other KR
outputs.
Their preamp has 12 of the KR1's in it. Looked great, did't ever see it
fired up, was only a static prototype, but could you see retubing???? (Or
should I have said $$$$$).
My beef is that in newer times as the mu lower's so does the rp. I would
love to have either way just a little, more mu (keep the rp) or lower rp
(keep the mu).
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: AirGapped@aol.com
Subject: Re: Vaic KR1
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:47:35 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n074
In a message dated 97-10-15 16:18:10 EDT, Grego wrote:
>Yes, so did I, until I saw the datasheet. I don't recall the exact numbers
>but I was very unimpressed. High Rp, Low mu. The tube nobody asked for,
>unless you are looking for a low gain 6SN7....at a huge price!
Grego: I was surprised to see your printed reaction....and please don't take
this as a flame (I beg of you :=).
But aren't you jumping the gun a bit here...perhaps they sound really
beautiful in a properly executed circuit. Hell....based on their success
with the 32 and 52 tubes I am curious to say the least.
High RP----low mu is your complaint? Many good sounding tubes down the road
had higher Rp's than the 6,000 ohms stated for the one critter....and some
folks don't like the high mu sound (or high transconductance
edginess)....perhaps we should all listen to these first....these are numbers
not qualities....does the solidity of construction recommend itself?
yeah...at a price of like 300 bongo congos a piece...now that is a legit
complaint in my opinion <g>....and sales I would expect will be retarded to
say the least.
Mikey
=========================================================================
From: Ed Faulkner <efaulkne@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: value of altec 805/288
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 12:21:35 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n273
I may sell a pair of Altec 805s with 288 drivers and would like to know the
approximate value. These are not in pristine condition but are functional.
Any advice is appreciated, I cannot afford the low frequency drivers and my
wife does not like them in the livingroom.
=========================================================================
From: garyj <garyj@superlink.net>
Subject: Value of Goodman 812's?
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:48:36 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n407
Can anyone give me a value of a pair of goodman 812 triaxiaql speakers
in good shape?
I am selling mine and just wondered what their value is.
TIA,
gary
=========================================================================
From: Mark Donen <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Value of Mac MC240?
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:08:29 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n484
Anyone know the value of one of these if in good cond.? A friend has one
for sale.
Mark
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: Value of Mac MC240?
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:28:34 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n484
They seem to be ranging from $1000 to $1400, depending on the condition.
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@toast.net>
Subject: Value of McIntosh 240?
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 22:48:28 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n057
A person I work with wants to sell their McIntosh 240. They have had it
for the past 8 years. The chassis is in very good condition, and it has
KT88 tubes. They want $1000 for it. Is this high or low price? Any
opinions?
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Value of McIntosh 240?
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:15:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n057
At 10:48 PM -0400 10/5/97, Steve Van Osdell wrote:
>A person I work with wants to sell their McIntosh 240. They have had it
>for the past 8 years. The chassis is in very good condition, and it has
>KT88 tubes. They want $1000 for it. Is this high or low price? Any
>opinions?
>
>Thanks, Steve
These are very cool, beefy amps and I *guess* the price is good, given what
everyone's asking for these nowadays. It's on the low end, actually--I've
seen these going for $1200-1500. It'd be hard to buy a new tube amp as
good as these for even close to that amount, so...:-(
However (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) the correct output tube for
these is a 5881 or 6L6GC. Putting in KT88s is irresponsible! They draw
nearly twice the filament current, for starters. I know why people do
this, but it's no "upgrade" to use the wrong output tube!! You should tell
the seller that you will purchase it *only* if he provides a correct set of
output tubes. Don't buy this with KT88s, or KT66s either, Steve--either
the person doesn't know what he's doing or he took out the nice NOS
black-plates or Sylvanias and stuck in some Chinese junk to sell it.
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: match@ee.utah.edu
Subject: Re: Value of McIntosh 240?
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:31:26 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n058
> At 10:48 PM -0400 10/5/97, Steve Van Osdell wrote:
> >A person I work with wants to sell their McIntosh 240. They have had it
> >for the past 8 years. The chassis is in very good condition, and it has
> >KT88 tubes. They want $1000 for it. Is this high or low price? Any
> >opinions?
> >
> >Thanks, Steve
Steve, I think you should buy what you want. If you've been
searching for an MC240, then this is a fair (but not wonderful)
price to a collector for one in VG or better condition. Macs are
wonderful. I own 3 MC60's myself, and the MC240 is one of the most
highly sought Macs. However the high prices that they command are
only valid if they are original, pristine, and have the correct
tubes, and it is definately worthwhile to locate and purchase the
correct tubes. The correct tube numbers are right on the chassis,
unless someone has washed them off.
I guess the real answer is that it is worth what you or someone
else are willing to pay for it. They way it goes with collectibles.
I assume you've listened to it? They sound like a push-pull amp
with lots of feedback (a VERY NICE push-pull with lots of feedback,
I'll admit. I love mine, just be sure it's what you want.)
What other modifications might have been made? If there were other
mods, what happened to the original parts? You want them if they
still exist, even if you choose not to put them back in. Was it
re-biased for the KT88's?
Find out what flavor of KT88's they are (on the off-chance that they
are something worthwhile, like Genalex.) Unless you have a
use for the KT88's, I would offer somewhat less $ and let him keep
the tubes... but that's just me, and I'm not looking for one,
neccessarily.
Or, You could re-sell the KT88's, (I'd buy them, even if they are
Chinese glowing-plate crap, as long as they're cheap. We use them
here in variable power supplies... they need only be alive) and apply
the money toward a set of NOS or even used 6L6GC's.
How badly do you want it? If you don't buy it, someone else will. On
the other hand, something else may come along. I only paid $450 for
all three of my MC60's this past summer. One of them had Genalex
KT88's, and the other two were sans output tubes, but other than
that, they're all 3 perfect. I've since purchased enough Tung-Sol
6550's and GE 6550A's for all three and I'm still debating which I
like best.
Another fellow here bought an MC30 for $15 at a yard sale this
summer! Too bad it wasn't a pair, but another will show up someday.
I traded a ham radio that I paid $85 for (although worth about $350)
for a Dynaco ST70, PAS2, FM1 w/mpx, Stromberg-Carlson mono pre-amp
and power amp, Ampex AM-FM mono tuner, Rec-O-Kut turntable with Gray
arm, and University speaker system in a corner enclosure, all VG+, so
bargains do show up... ussually when you're not looking :-) and
then you end up with more vintage tube stuff than you can actually
use.
Marvin Match
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Value of NOS JBL replacement diaphrams
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:09:16 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n396
Hi All,
Say, could someone please advise me of the fair market value of NOS JBL
replacement diaphrams for JBL 2441 and 2445 2 inch horn drivers. I have
several of each and also have someone who is interested in purchasing
them, but I am not familiar with their fair market value. As best I can
determine, they are pretty hard to come by and somewhat pricey. Thanks.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Value of NOS JBL replacement diaphrams
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:53:08 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n396
On Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:09:16 -0700, "Daniel J. Marshall"
<danmarshall@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Say, could someone please advise me of the fair market value of NOS JBL
>replacement diaphrams for JBL 2441 and 2445 2 inch horn drivers. I have
>several of each and also have someone who is interested in purchasing
>them, but I am not familiar with their fair market value. As best I can
>determine, they are pretty hard to come by and somewhat pricey.
Surely the 2445 part is still available as regular production from
JBL. There are still thousands of these devices in everyday use in
sound reinforcement systems. They wouldn't discontinue the diapragm
as long as there's a steady demand.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: Value of Qts (LONG!!) (fwd)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:15:24 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n152
I *think* this is the Dunker post on dynamics that people have been asking
about. I could be wrong... nonetheless, it's a great post. Thanks,
Thomas!
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 18:00:20 +0100 (GMT+0100)
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
Reply-To: sound@mail.tpoint.net
To: Scott Grammer <gesic@cdc.net>
Cc: "Markowitz, Gary" <MarkowitzG@nabisco.com>, sound@mail.tpoint.net
Subject: Re: Value of Qts (LONG!!)
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:58:18 GMT
Resent-From: sound@mail.tpoint.net
On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Scott Grammer wrote:
> > Generally, drivers with a high Qts are designed with high electrical
> > damping, and high mechanical damping, ie a stiff suspension. This makes
> > them suitable for open baffle applications or infinite (over 6 cu ft or
> > so) baffle. Drivers with a lower Qts need the small volume of air in
> > either an acoustic suspension enclosure or a bass reflex enclosure to,
> > in effect, stiffen their suspension.
> >
> > Gary Markowitz
> > MarkowitzG@nabisco.com
> > >
> Gary:
> I could be wrong...
> But it seem to remember that all the bass drivers I used in my live
> sound days had a low Qts (.2-.27) and had to have large cabinets (i.e.,
> a single 15 might need 6 or 8 cubic feet). On the other hand, acoustic
> suspension drivers use a Qts of .38-.45 to attain a Qt of .7-1.0 . In
> this case, a single 15 might get by with only 3 cu.ft. of volume.
>
> Again, I could be wrong.
> Anybody out there who wants to grab this thread and run with it?
Very clear and thorough treatment of these issues can be found in some
papers which I have refered to previously, by Tore Holmboe Wiik (Seas):
"Transient Distortion caused by nonlinearities in driving force and
suspension of a loudspeaker"
AES Preprint No. 1205 (C-5), 1977
and for the Norwegian/Swedish literate:
"Basstransientgjengivelse - en viktig faktor" ("Bass transient
reproduction - an important factor")
HiFi & Elektronikk (Norway) 8/1977
"Storsignalanalys av hoegtalarelement" ("Large signal analysis of
loudspeaker unit")
Radio & Television (Sweden) 10/1979
and papers by Ragnar Lian:
"Time Distortions in Loudspeakers"
AES Preprint No. 1207 (C-5), 1977
"Hoyttalerenheter del 2 - Den elektrodynamiske hoeyttaler" ("Loudspeaker
units part 2 - the electrodynamic loudspeaker")
HiFi & Elektronikk (Norway) 10/1976
The essence of these papers are that good transient response is always
easier to achieve in lower order systems (sealed enclousures, dipoles)
than vented (bass reflex) systems, and also easier to analyze for
the lower order systems, as these only have one resonant frequency
to consider. For a sealed enclosure, a system Q lower than or equal
to 0.5 virtually eliminates the periodical over(under?)shoot response
to an impulse/step signal. Wiik provides comparative measurements of
different systems tuned to different system Q values. He writes:
"Normally the transient reproduction of bass speakers is calculated
based on the assumption that the properties of the speaker are
independent of the diaphragm excursion. Then, the transient
reproduction can be found using the nominal data for the driver.
In order to avoid undershoot, the system should be aperiodical,
that means that the system's intrinsic resonances have Q values
less or equal to 0.5 (Then they have actually ceased to be
resonances.)"
"The sealed enclosure system has only one (such) resonant frequency,
so that the transient response is easy to predict. In fig. 1. the
bass frequency response for different Q values is shown. As we can see,
a low Q speaker will have less bass output than one with a high Q. If
we consider the bass increase provided by the listening room, it's
easily seen that it's the high Q speaker which gives *too much* bass,
and not the low Q speaker giving too little."
Wiik also devotes a lot of attention to the excursion dependent
aspects of damping. One of the most important of these are that
the BL product (force factor) diminishes with increasing excursions.
The force on the cone diminishes with proportion to the drop in force
factor, whereas the magnetic damping (back-emf shorted by the amp's output
impedance), which is "usually the dominating part of the system's
total damping" is proportional to the SQUARE of the BL product,
and therefore diminishes as the SQUARE of the decrease in BL product
under large signal conditions. Also, the suspension compliance
decreses with large excursions.
Lian's approach is
not as mathematical, but it's even more pragmatic. He's always been
an advocate of studying speakers and sound with the two fundamental
parameters *pressure* and *time*. He looks at the ideal response to a
step function, and compares the actual typical response of an infinite
baffle/sealed system and a bass reflex. The over/undershoot
characteristics are very different. I find one of his statements very
important: "The time interval in which the speaker is able to hold a
positive pressure, is an expression of its ability to reproduce true
bass." - He complains that the frequency response (LF -3dB point)
actually says nothing about this "quality" aspect of bass reproduction,
and that "this method of considering a speaker unfortunately does not
provide any numbers that can be compared with others..."
The point is that if one looks at the step response, a higher order
system will provide a pressure rise, but will not be able to hold
the positive pressure for very long - instead it dips rapidly "below
zero" and initiates a more or less pronounced periodical undershoot.
This undershoot energy can easily contain more energy than what was
supposed to be the initial transient signal. This kind of insufficient
damping is nice to have when one wants deep bass from a resonably
small system, but definitely at the expense of clean transient
reproduction.
When the resonance is used "constructively" to extend LF response
downwards, as in ported enclosures, this is necessarily at the
expense of the cleanest possible damping/transient response.
Also, I feel that it's necessary to stress that the specified T/S
parameters pertaining to damping are small signal parameters which
lose validity to a greater or lesser extent when the excursions
increase, as they should be expected to do for bass transients,
so that the discussion needs to go beyond simply comparing numerically
specified or measured Q values. Most of the "constants" involved
in the predicition of transient response according to Thiele/Small
theory cease to be constant when the coil and cone starts to move
and when power is dissipated in the voice coil.
At the time when I built my dipole systems, I was not aware of all
the ramifications of what Torbjoern instructed me to do, but the
following measures are part of the reason for the success:
*Very small excursions thanks to generous radiating area (16 8"
cones per side). This means that the "constants" are a bit
more constant than they'd be otherwise, and that the acceleration/
velocity for each individual cone is a fraction of the "sum" of
all the drivers in tandem, so that the cheap, sorry drivers
I used are in fact quite capable of delivering the goods. This
reduces break-up and modulation/harmonic distortion, and the
fact that the drivers are mounted perpendicularly to the main
baffle completely eliminates FM (Doppler) distortion regardless
of excursions (and regardless of whether FM distortion is thought
to be significant!).
*Very low power input to each driver (thanks to the number of them
and the high system efficiency), resulting in cool operation of the
voice coils, so that DCR and Z remains constant under "large signal"
conditions. (Voice coil heating is known to produce 5-6 dB of
power compression in typical low efficiency "hi-fi" woofers used
within the limits of so called "linear excursion/Xmax", not desirable
for quality reproduction IMHO.) High efficiency drivers provide
this and many other advantages in the first place, but getting low-eff
cheap drivers to do something right requires different approaches.
*Amount of overhang of voice coil was reduced (in my case, by
removing 44 out of the 96 turns of wire on each one of the 32
woofers I used) to get better inherent damping (lower Qts) as low as
I could thanks to the small excursions. ALL the resistance in
the voice coil can be thought of as a parasitic resistance in
series with the "ideal" coil *in the magnetic field*. Overhung
designs with undersized magnets have thrown a lot of damping out
the window in the first place, which works out well for cheap,
market-friendly, large excursion, small enclosure "woof", but it's
not something I need or want. As the drivers I used were of that
variety, I had to minimize the defects to the best of my ability.
*A reasonably dense fabric was added as a resistive load practically
in front of the cones (one has to see the special "folded baffle"
config. to understand this part) to further reduce Q.
I never got around to measuring the system Q, but I suspect that
it may actually be on the low side (WELL below 0.5). The increase
in excursions at the system's resonance (22 hz) were barely
detectable when the speaker (wired to 10 ohms) was driven by a
50 ohm source Z (Wavetek function generator), suggesting extremely
good inherent damping.
These features, in a dipole speaker, mean that *very* deep bass
is not very easy to achieve (although I use a careful amount of
active EQ) - but the QUALITY... The bass quality is "tuneful"
(yes, there is supposed to be MUSIC down there too, not just
LF energy) (the system was conceived by a bass player, who
naturally values this a whole lot!), and "fast" (the "go-stop
control" related to clean transient response/good damping),
and there's no "boom" (other than that added by room resonances)
or "box sound".
I guess the bottom line is that small excursions ALWAYS help,
regardless of the enclosure type, that very well damped drivers or
systems are not very generous on deep bass (must be pretty big), but
are generally better on transients. And of course, due to a lot of
inherent weaknesses and properties of electrodynamic drivers, getting
high quality (bass) transient reproduction AND good LF response
takes something extra in terms of size/cost and other trivial
factors. Like Hiraga wrote in "Les haut-parleurs", one of the most
fundamental weaknesses of the "genre Rice-Kellogg" loudspeaker is
it's poor "linearite dynamique" - and to considerably improve the
situation is possible but "anti-commerciale".
Also, while on the topic of damping, I think it's necessary to
realize that "damping factor" according to the popular definition
(Zload(nominal) / Zsource) says very little about actual damping
in the amp-speaker combination, and that this definition is best
suited for providing impressive specs-based advertising. Back
when amps were low power and had highish output Z, speakers were
designed according to that, and depended on high efficiency and
good inherent damping. It seems that one of the best hidden truths
in audio is that that old approach can work just as well, and often
better, than the "high damping factor"/high power/low efficiency
approach that prevails today. IMO, they threw the baby out with
the bathwater when they believed that higher power and lower
output Z in amps would be able to compensate for all the
problems in low-efficiency speakers ad infinitum. In terms of
distortion, and particularly that under dynamic conditions, high
efficiency speakers have advantages that are far more important than
the high efficiency (amp power requirement) itself.
I feel that even though I've learned a lot about dynamic nonlinearity
and transient problems in speakers, the more I know, the more I
realize that I don't know. It can be VERY, VERY DECEPTIVE to look at
a few single quantitative parameters taken from lab measurements or
manufacturers' specs. Just about every conceivable little parameter
in a speaker is more or less, and often subtly, tied to one or
several other parameters, and very few of them are really constant
at all in the situation in which we use them (music). I could go on
to talk about how coil position dependent voice coil inductance can
strongly modulate time domain/phase response, and how gap flux is
modulated and passes through a highly unlinear magnetic circuit
etc. but at best it would be fragmentary. For some time I have been
working on a large manuscript on speaker nonlinearities which I hope
to put out on the WorldWideWait.
Ragnar Lian put it well, in his 1976 article on the electrodynamic
loudspeaker: "The concept is, in spite of its old age, still full of
possibilities that have not yet been exploited."
In my opinion, this is still true, 21 years later, and most of the
consumer audio speaker industry seems to have made very little
further progress as far as the fundamental problem areas go. That's
the kind of thing I want to work on. Lian quit AES for the reason that
he felt they were more interested in fancy mathematical models than
down to earth pragmatic looks at practical improvements. This has been
my impression as well, and therefore I'd like to end with a
philosophical question: Shouldn't we use scientific approaches that
are more *NORMATIVE* (how *should* things be?) than merely
*DESCRIPTIVE* (the "this is how it IS, folks" kind of attitude)
in order to get "where we want to be"? How else can there be REAL
progress? (I guess "progress" today is more of a quest for, if not
free, at least the cheapest possible lunches, than the BEST lunch.)
Usually, one has to read between the lines and think a lot to find
something of pragmatic value, even when the material comes from
really bright people. Generally, I mean.
Please pardon the verbosity, but this is not a simple topic that
can be summed up in brief terms.
Tom
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.unit.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \------\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone (+47)73938006 \ (Gene Dalby)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no>
Subject: Re: Value of Qts (LONG!!) (fwd)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:42:08 +0100 (MET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n153
Hmm...well, this is just a tiny part of the whole
mess that I call dynamic nonlinearity in speakers. I'm still
learning about this, so don't think of it as any more than
uh...what it is, whatever it is.
The recording industry makes my/our (whoever it concerns)
painstaking quest for better dynamics seem like a futile
pursuit, in that they consider dynamics to be a problem and
cheerfully destroy it with their compressors and limiters,
which, according to ads have "extremely low distortion"
(harmonic+noise essentially being the only known distortion
they care about). Scary what tragic misunderstandings steady
state distortion measurements can lead to. Dynamic compression
is not even thought of as a form of distortion of the signal.
A compressor/limiter is essentially an amplifier with a gain
that drops with increasing input signal. Of course, the basic
analogy with speakers is that they have a similar input/output
characteristic: the efficiency drops with increasing input
power so that the proportionality of input to output signal
is lost -> compression. The speaker is 'worse' than the compressor
though, as its distortion roughly increases with proportion to its
output, in a wild and not very predictable way. UGH!
If recordings with true "digital dynamics" are let loose on the
public, I want to be prepared. But really, speakers distort
and mess things up so bad that they can't even digest the
pre-digested software we put into them. We can make our records
come a little more alive by making sure we don't compress and
distort what's already been compressed and distorted, like
radio stations do. If I want to hear what utter and complete
disrespect for dynamics and the idea of "high fidelity" sounds
like, I can listen to the local radio station. I'd like my
stereo to do it better.
I can sort of sympathize with the basic idea that the output
signal should follow the input signal as accurately as possible,
which is the essence of
"high fidelity", but then the test signal should be music.
There are test signals that say nothing about dynamics or
linearity under heavy/realistic load, WE ARE AFRAID TO REALLY
CHALLENGE THE HARDWARE AND EXPOSE THE WEAKNESSES, and these are the
most commonly used test signals. If someone cares to mention
the distortion of a speaker, it's going to be a comfortably
low figure measured at low SPLs, or most likely the SPL won't
be measured at all, as if to demonstrate the complete ignorance
wrt DYNAMIC nonlinearities (ie distortion that increases with
amplitude, SPL, power, whatever).
I could rant on forever, but the point is it makes me sick
how people now discuss speaker cables at the quantum physical
level and demand 24 bit 96kHz digital audio etc. while
the amps and speakers, room acoustics and all the mess in
the recording studios (well, some of it IS good) are responsible
for the real bottlenecks - as if we were so close to perfection
already. Not just in terms of dynamics, but all sorts of amplitude
distortion, phase mess, noise, frequency response etc. etc.
I should be testing and building amps right now instead of repeating
myself for the umpteenth time, so it's logoff time. Bye.
Tom D.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.unit.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \------\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@invalid.ed.unit.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone (+47)73916898 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: VALVE 45 amp help?
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:22:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n139
Hi guys -
Can anyone (well, someone that's kind of patient) help me out with the
parafeed 45 amp schematic that was in VALVE recently?
My knowledge of things electronic is pretty will limited to Ohm's Law, but
that is not seeming to help here. The voltages don't work out, or don't
make sense.
(Incidentally, this points out one of my problems with most schematics that
are published in our little mags. No voltages at various points in the
circuit. Those schematics that include the various voltages are very
helpful to novices such as myself, since we can see the aforementioned law
in action, and follow the action from PS to ground, through the circuit.
For a great example, see the UBT parallel 2A3 amp schematic in one of the
early issues of SP.)
I get about 484 volts of B+, assuming the power supply is cap input. But is
it? There's a resistor immediately downstream of the rectifier, but a
resistive load filter would give a B+ of about 305v, wouldn't it?
Doc says that the actual measured voltage on the plate of the 45 is "more
like 400v above ground." So where did the excess voltage go, if the B+ is
484? The drop over the choke L2 is only .034A x550ohms, or about 19v.
That seems like 465v at the plate.
So the voltages are "translated up by the plate voltage of the direct
coupled driver." Are we dropping 230v over R6,7 (23k) and 100v over R5?
That would give about 154v at the plate of the 5965.
The voltage drop over R8, the bias resistor for the 45, is .034A x 4.4k, or
149v. So where is the bias coming from?
Can you sense that I'm at sea here? Could someone perhaps briefly explain
how the active load works in this amp and suggest a little study guide on
direct coupling in general?
This is more than theoretical, since I'd like to try a low voltage
operating point for the 300B (200v on the plate, -37v grid, and 50ma) and I
think that I've got everything I need to do it, if my outboard PS is
adequate, at 430v B+ output.- Doing my best not to electrocute myself or
anyone that I care about, Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
=========================================================================
From: "Bottlehead" <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: VALVE 45 amp help?
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:29:39 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n139
>
> Hi guys -
>
> Can anyone (well, someone that's kind of patient) help me out with the
> parafeed 45 amp schematic that was in VALVE recently?
>
> My knowledge of things electronic is pretty will limited to Ohm's Law,
but
> that is not seeming to help here. The voltages don't work out, or don't
> make sense.
>
Well, I oughta throw this one Tucker's way, but he is a commited lurker
when it comes to the ol' joelist.
> (Incidentally, this points out one of my problems with most schematics
that
> are published in our little mags. No voltages at various points in the
> circuit. Those schematics that include the various voltages are very
> helpful to novices such as myself, since we can see the aforementioned
law
> in action, and follow the action from PS to ground, through the circuit.
> For a great example, see the UBT parallel 2A3 amp schematic in one of the
> early issues of SP.)
Point taken. This is directed at you other authors too, ya' know. Us
publishers work with what we are given. Since this one is sorta my baby,
I'll take the heat.
>
> I get about 484 volts of B+, assuming the power supply is cap input. But
is
> it? There's a resistor immediately downstream of the rectifier, but a
> resistive load filter would give a B+ of about 305v, wouldn't it?
Well, you're not allowing for how much the circuit might draw down a
particular power trans. In the prototype, we get about 410V at the output,
because the trans drops some V under load. I didn't to go into great detail
on the power supply, because you can't get the particular power trans I
used, (yet, we're working on it) unless you buy it in a kit.
The point here is that you want about 405-415 V B+, so that you get around
400V above ground on the 45 plate, as I stated.
If it was a perfect world, for cap input you would want a power trans with
about a 570VCT secondary. We use a trans with a 700VCT secondary for the
real world result.
>
> Doc says that the actual measured voltage on the plate of the 45 is "more
> like 400v above ground." So where did the excess voltage go, if the B+
is
> 484? The drop over the choke L2 is only .034A x550ohms, or about 19v.
> That seems like 465v at the plate.
>
> So the voltages are "translated up by the plate voltage of the direct
> coupled driver." Are we dropping 230v over R6,7 (23k) and 100v over R5?
> That would give about 154v at the plate of the 5965.
The 5965 plate sits at about 100V, the top of the load, about 130V. The
drop across the 23K resistor, R6+R7, is therefore, about 270V, which works
out to 11.2 mA draw. About 10 mA of this is through 5965, and about 1 mA is
through R5.
If you want to try something cool, forget R6 and R7. Tie the top of the
load to the top of the 45's cathode resistor instead. It will work nicely,
even though it seems like the voltages would work out funny. It will also
have a quieter background.
>
> The voltage drop over R8, the bias resistor for the 45, is .034A x 4.4k,
or
> 149v. So where is the bias coming from?
149V (45 filament) - 100V (5965 plate,45 grid)= 49V
>
> Can you sense that I'm at sea here? Could someone perhaps briefly
explain
> how the active load works in this amp and suggest a little study guide on
> direct coupling in general?
You should talk to Buddha about the load. He gave it to Tucker, who gave it
to me.
Direct coupling does not really pose too many daunting new problems, you
just have to remember all the interrelations between the voltages of the
various parts of the two tubes. V=IR, dude.
>
> This is more than theoretical, since I'd like to try a low voltage
> operating point for the 300B (200v on the plate, -37v grid, and 50ma) and
I
> think that I've got everything I need to do it, if my outboard PS is
> adequate, at 430v B+ output.- Doing my best not to electrocute myself or
> anyone that I care about, Pat
You're doing fine, bud. My lights haven't flickered yet.
Doc B.
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: VALVE 45 amp help?
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:07:25 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n139
At 3:22 PM -0500 12/21/97, Patrick Currie wrote:
>Hi guys -
>
>Can anyone (well, someone that's kind of patient) help me out with the
>parafeed 45 amp schematic that was in VALVE recently?
>
>My knowledge of things electronic is pretty will limited to Ohm's Law, but
>that is not seeming to help here. The voltages don't work out, or don't
>make sense.
>
>(Incidentally, this points out one of my problems with most schematics that
>are published in our little mags. No voltages at various points in the
>circuit. Those schematics that include the various voltages are very
>helpful to novices such as myself, since we can see the aforementioned law
>in action, and follow the action from PS to ground, through the circuit.
I'm with you here. Voltages specified in the schematic are a big help, not
only in understanding how the circuit works but also to make sure you
haven't screwed up royally in building it.
>I get about 484 volts of B+, assuming the power supply is cap input. But is
>it? There's a resistor immediately downstream of the rectifier, but a
>resistive load filter would give a B+ of about 305v, wouldn't it?
This is just a bleeder resistor and probably helps with surge protection
too. I suppose. But with the diode drop it would probably be more like
450. Then the PS choke probably drops about 10-15 volts, and the plate
choke another 20. So 400-420 on the 45 is a good bet. Don't forget your
current source and parallel input tube are adding 10ma to the total current
draw.
>
>Doc says that the actual measured voltage on the plate of the 45 is "more
>like 400v above ground." So where did the excess voltage go, if the B+ is
>484? The drop over the choke L2 is only .034A x550ohms, or about 19v.
>That seems like 465v at the plate.
>
>So the voltages are "translated up by the plate voltage of the direct
>coupled driver." Are we dropping 230v over R6,7 (23k) and 100v over R5?
>That would give about 154v at the plate of the 5965.
>
>The voltage drop over R8, the bias resistor for the 45, is .034A x 4.4k, or
>149v. So where is the bias coming from?
My guess (is there a prize?:-)) would be that the 5965 is running at 100
plate volts and about 1.7 volts bias. I don't see how else it could be and
still get Doc's operating point for the 45.
>
>Can you sense that I'm at sea here? Could someone perhaps briefly explain
>how the active load works in this amp and suggest a little study guide on
>direct coupling in general?
Now that would be great! Please!
Grover Gardner
groverg@bellatlantic.net
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: Re: VALVE 45 amp help?
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:10:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n141
Thanks to Grover and Doc for the help -
>Well, you're not allowing for how much the circuit might draw down a
>particular power trans. In the prototype, we get about 410V at the output,
>because the trans drops some V under load. I didn't to go into great detail
>on the power supply, because you can't get the particular power trans I
>used, (yet, we're working on it) unless you buy it in a kit.
Ahh, drooping and sagging, not things I like to think about at this point
in my life. Thanks - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
=========================================================================
From: "DFAT, Ankara" <ausemank@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: VALVE 45 amp help?
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:03:35 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n142
PLEASE DO NOT SEND ANY FURTHER MAIL
RECEIPIENT NO LONGER AT THIS ADDRESS
- ----------
> From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@mail.execpc.com>
> To: Bottlehead <Bottlehead@prodigy.net>
> Cc: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: VALVE 45 amp help?
> Date: 23 Aralýk 1997 Salý 16:10
>
> Thanks to Grover and Doc for the help -
>
> >Well, you're not allowing for how much the circuit might draw down a
> >particular power trans. In the prototype, we get about 410V at the
output,
> >because the trans drops some V under load. I didn't to go into great
detail
> >on the power supply, because you can't get the particular power trans I
> >used, (yet, we're working on it) unless you buy it in a kit.
>
> Ahh, drooping and sagging, not things I like to think about at this point
> in my life. Thanks - Pat
>
> Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
> (608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Valves wanted
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:05:41 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n075
Hi Folks,
I need a pair of 41MXPs (Cossor) for a line stage project. Equivalents
are AC/P1 (Mazda) and O54V (Mullard). They are old British indirectly
heated triode output types with an ra about 2000 Ohms.
Any suggestions for alternatives would be appreciated.
TIA
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk
"..biology is what you do when you don't have the maths for real
science.."
=========================================================================
From: Mattijs de Vries <Mattijs.devries@student.utwente.nl>
Subject: Re: Valves wanted
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:31:07 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n075
Hello,
>I need a pair of 41MXPs (Cossor) for a line stage project. Equivalents
>are AC/P1 (Mazda) and O54V (Mullard). They are old British indirectly
>heated triode output types with an ra about 2000 Ohms.
>Any suggestions for alternatives would be appreciated.
They are very rare I'm afraid, there are fortunately many other triodes
(especially IDHT) which could do the job. I was looking for the same types,
but happen to find a DHT with the same properties, amplification of 7 and
Ra of 2k5, the 3A/109A of SCR, also tough to find, but very great in sound.
I can get many old tubes (in the Netherlands), if you are interested,
please E-mail me the specs you expect the tube to have and I can take a
look if I can find one suitable. Running through old databooks is part of
my tubehobby! Hope to hear from you,
- ---
_ Mattijs de Vries Ing.
__|_|__
| __|__ | E-mail : Mattijs.deVries@student.utwente.nl
/ | | \ URL : Http://Cam041214.student.utwente.nl
| | | | Adress : Campuslaan 41-214, 7522 NG Enschede
| | | | Country : The Netherlands, Europe
| |_____| | Phone : +31-53-4895091
\_/|_|\_/ ---------------------------------------------------
|_______| "Nothing shocks me, I'm a scientist", Indiana Jones
|| || ---------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Richard Lindner <rjl@riclin.com.au>
Subject: Valve/Tube Info required
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:15:35 +1100 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n551
hi joes,
this is slightly off the DIY vein, but hopefully someone can assist ...
i'm trying to locate info regarding the valve complement in an AMC
CVT1030 preamp - the numbers seem to have been rubbed off the
components in the particular unit i'm looking at. i expected to find
12AX7s or similar, but none of the 4 (2 pairs) look like the 12AX7s i'm
used to. does anybody know what bottles this thing uses?
thanks in advance,
- --
Richard Lindner Intrepid Adventurer rjl@riclin.com.au
Ph:+61 (0)413 804 075 rjl@gondwana.apana.org.au
What a long, strange trip it's been
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Valve Types AC1 etc
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:33:04 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n425
Hi Folks
Billington Export list AC1, AC2, AC3, AC4, AC5 as being "available".
They say they are Russian - but what are they?
Any ideas folks?
TIA
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: Valve Types AC1 etc
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:20:25 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n426
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Simon Busbridge wrote:
> Billington Export list AC1, AC2, AC3, AC4, AC5 as being "available".
> They say they are Russian - but what are they?
Wishful thinking I'm afraid...
Here is what my friend at Svetlana told me...
> Those are part number to our Anode Connectors...
> primarily associated with our metal ceramic 3CX, 4CX & 5CX types.
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Morrison <ppdiva@pipeline.com>
Subject: van den Hul
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 10:09:53 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n098
My Clearaudio cartridge still seems ok, but it is several years old so I am
looking ahead to replacement time, and I wondered if anyone here has had
experience with van den Hul's retipping and rebuilding of old cartridges? I
have a couple of old MC's that I thought I might send him (not the
Clearaudio, I'll wait 'til I can afford to send it to Clearaudio).
Is Garrott still in the retipping business?
JDM
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@shore.net>
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 19:11:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n099
At 10:09 AM 11/3/97 -0800, Jonathan Morrison wrote:
>My Clearaudio cartridge still seems ok, but it is several years old so I am
>looking ahead to replacement time, and I wondered if anyone here has had
>experience with van den Hul's retipping and rebuilding of old cartridges? I
>have a couple of old MC's that I thought I might send him (not the
>Clearaudio, I'll wait 'til I can afford to send it to Clearaudio).
>Is Garrott still in the retipping business?
>J
A friend of mine had an old Koetsu retipped, and he is very happy with the
results. Basically, it's still a Koetsu.
JL
=========================================================================
From: Robert Jorgensen <robert.jorgensen@advalvas.be>
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 19:36:59 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n099
At 10:09 03/11/97 -0800, you wrote:
>My Clearaudio cartridge still seems ok, but it is several years old so I am
>looking ahead to replacement time, and I wondered if anyone here has had
>experience with van den Hul's retipping and rebuilding of old cartridges? I
>have a couple of old MC's that I thought I might send him (not the
>Clearaudio, I'll wait 'til I can afford to send it to Clearaudio).
>Is Garrott still in the retipping business?
>JDM
>
>
Hi Jonathan,
This is something I can help with.
I have had a number of vdH cartridges over the years and know Aalt Jouk
from when I had an import business for hifi many years ago in Holland.
Aalt Jouk can do anything from a simple retip over repair of broken
cantilevers to complete dismanteling and rebuild. The only thing you can
say is that when you're finished you have a vdH cartridge and not the
orriginal. For some this might be a minus. I personally have always been
fond of his cartridges and if I had the chance I'd go for one again.
My only problem ever was a Fidelity Research where the needle got shot off
while playing the Telearc 1812 which is rather perverse (have you ever
watched how those groves are cut?). vdH put on a new tip for free anyway.
My clear recommandation
Greetings from Brussels
Robert Jorgensen
Robert.Jorgensen@advalvas.be
=========================================================================
From: "Owen Young" <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:16:59 -1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n099
Further to Jonathon Morrison's post, has anyone any experience with dealing
direct with AJ van den Hul? (I have an old Koetsu)
The Garrotts and their business expired in 1991. I believe a someone is
recently reoffering their service again in Australia. Maybe someone in Oz
can post details?
Owen
=========================================================================
From: Peter Allen <ptrallen@emu.melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:31:09 +1100 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n099
At 09:16 AM 04-11-97 -1200, you wrote:
>Further to Jonathon Morrison's post, has anyone any experience with dealing
>direct with AJ van den Hul? (I have an old Koetsu)
>
>The Garrotts and their business expired in 1991. I believe a someone is
>recently reoffering their service again in Australia. Maybe someone in Oz
>can post details?
From a post of a year ago. Their reputation is still good.
====================================
Garrott stylus replacements
I have spoken to Philippe Luder, of Audio Dynamics, a division of Tivoli
HiFi, who have been trading over thirty years and have a good name around
Melbourne, Australia.
They have, in fact, taken over the entire Garrott business, with whom they
had dealt over the years.
Hifi News & Record Review editor Steve Harris has a very recent article
announcing the takeover. Requests have come in from Spanish analogue
addicts already. (los vynilos junkios)
They do repair cartridges. Heart and lung transplants, the whole kit and
kaboodle.
This includes Koetsus, in fact the lot...Benz, van den Hul (the same thing)
Sumiko, Deccas, all the previous Garrott MCs, (including the P87).
They re-tip Deccas, of course, but they also rebuild Deccas. They even build
NEW ones from scratch... just like when there was a Garrott Decca; not just
a name, built from scratch from parts supplied by Decca. Philippe's people
do the same... very time consuming and appropriately priced. But cheaper
than having Andre build you a one-off car. KK are you listening? Steve
Rochlin, the ultimate boogie cartridge.
They actually <build> a new model P88, a Moving Magnet cartridge, and one
is with HFN/RR for review.
Prices: (in Australian dollars, currently about 79-80c US = $A1)
- ------
Re-tipping: varied diamond shapes; conical, elliptical, Microscanner and
Microscanner2 etc.
From $130 for MM to $285 for the dearest diamond on a MC.
Repairing moving coils is a more elaborate process.
Cantilever repair extra: basic $60.
If boron, beryllium, sapphire, diamond... surcharge, $130-$200 extra.
Major rebuild.
$500-600 dis-assemble, repair, bebuild, listen, tune: which is a lot less
than approx $2000 changeover elsewhere at Koetsu or Dynavector.
Most suspensions can be replaced, a common reason for cartridge retirement.
The word is that they still sound true to the original (unlike some
re-builds) only better.
Audio Dynamics,
155 Camberwell Road,
Hawthorn East Victoria 3123
Australia.
FAX +61 3 9813-3108 is preferred, or
phone 9882-0372
_____________________________________________________________
Peter Allen ptrallen@melbpc.org.au ( 8*{)
Editor, Melbourne Audio Club http://www.vicnet.net.au/~macinc
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 17:47:27 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n099
** Reply to note from "Owen Young" <oyoung@clear.net.nz> Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:16:59 -1200
> The Garrotts and their business expired in 1991. I believe a someone is
> recently reoffering their service again in Australia. Maybe someone in Oz
> can post details?
My understanding is that the Garrott brothers (and their wives I think?)
committed suicide and were found in a double bed with their throats cut. A
theory I heard was that they were concerned about the demise of their
business through the introduction of the CD.
A long time audio retailer bought all their gear and now contracts a guy
to do all their retipping. Retailer is Tivoli Hi-fi. They can be contacted
on the following
Audio Dynamics,
155 Camberwell Road,
Hawthorn East Victoria 3123
Australia.
FAX +61 3 9813-3108 is preferred, or
phone 9882-0372
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: PJBSLB@aol.com
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 04:01:14 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n100
In a message dated 97-11-03 11:58:39 EST, you write:
<< Is Garrott still in the retipping business? >>
Wasn't Garrott run by the two Australian brothers who committed suicide
together a number of years back? Maybe some Australian joe will be able to
provide more details.
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David N. Barnett)
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 20:46:04 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n100
On Tue, 4 Nov 1997 17:47:27 EST, pitaro@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>My understanding is that the Garrott brothers (and their wives I think?)
>committed suicide and were found in a double bed with their throats cut. A
>theory I heard was that they were concerned about the demise of their
>business through the introduction of the CD.
I thought that one of the Garrott brothers had a terminal disease, and
they both decided to "opt out." I doubt that CD had anything to do
with it.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: alan cameron <alan@thehub.com.au>
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:52:37 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n100
At 19:11 -0500 3/11/97, John Levreault is rumored to have typed:
> Is Garrott still in the retipping business?
The Garrott brothers committed suicide, I think about 5 years ago, along
with their Philipina wives (all four together). very efficient, the carbon
monoxide, unfortunately.
don't know if the business was passed on.
Greetings from downtown Bris-Vegas,
Queensland
alan
=========================================================================
From: "Owen Young" <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: van den Hul
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:57:55 -1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n100
Barton,
You wrote;
> I got my Koetsu Rosewood redone recently....
Mine is Koetsu Red which has a Microscanner on it already but suspension is
very tired....tracking was never great anyway.
I'm real interested in your listening results when you get around to
it....esp compared with original Koetsu sound. Did you specify what was to
be done, or do Tivoli have their own ideas/policy?
Thanks
Owen Young
Auckland, New Zealand
oyoung@clear.net.nz
=========================================================================
From: jc morrison <jcm@eclipse.net>
Subject: Re: Van Gelder
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 10:49:33 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
hey all,
blue notes are really bright because rudy was half deaf. alot of
speculation has gone into the "it makes it more intimate, like your head
was inside the trumpet" sort of viewpoint. its just ironic that this
cranky little hobokenite wound up recording lots of the most important
recordings of the century. tinninitus! i have it too, my right ear only,
big pain in the ass...
jc
=========================================================================
From: spence barton <ence-ack@rio.com>
Subject: Re: Van Gelder
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 16:44:36 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
Hi Mark,
I don't think anyone who has used 604's for any length of time would accuse
them of being soft or rolled off on the top. Laser beams yes but not soft
on the top.
If 604's do anything well, and there are many who say they don't, it's to
paint a picture. Like listening to an oil painting. Bright colors and bold
strokes with dark corners where things are just glimpsed. They won't ever
be my main speakers but there is something really fun that they can do.
I have always thought Rudy's recordings to be very well balanced and
wonderfully alive. I'll take the top end of most old records over most of
what I hear that is modern.
The thing I don't like about some of them is the hard pan to the left and
right on the stereo versions. That may not have been his decision to make,
though.
I will certainly agree that there are a million tweeters out there
especially those made after about 1970 are capable of making many wonderful
recordings sound small and stingy. And I will celebrate with you that all
that wonderful bluenote music now sounds sweet and wonderful at your house
instead of scratchy and overboosted.
Trust me, hi fi was discovered and practiced very seriously well before
Rudy ever recorded anyone in his parents living room.
spence
At 05:25 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
>This is purely speculative and I have no evidence to support this:
>
>Have you noticed how on most of the old blue note records, there is
>scratchy over boosted top? Actually on a lot of old records. Now I used to
>think this was because they had just discovered hf in those days, and
>tweeters being new they wanted to use em. Now I think it has to do with the
>fact that Rudy and his co-engineers were using 604s to monitor and like any
>horn tweeter the thing rolls off pretty good after 3/4K and especially
>badly off axis. What is the solution?, lean on the eq. They were eqing for
>the horn roll off with the master eq, not the monitor eq. This explains
>why, now that I have nicely rolling off altecs, the top end on Rudy's old
>records actually sound okay for the first time since i got rid of those
>nasty dynaudio dome esotars, which are feeble compared to a 1 inch
>compression driver!
>
>
>
>
spence barton
ence-ack@rio.com
=========================================================================
From: irishtom@webtv.net (tom brennan)
Subject: Van Gelder
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:58:06 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
I remember an article in Audio written many years ago by an engineer
from Altec. He argued that a certain gentle high frequency roll-off be
implemented on all monitors and home speakers. He thought that with such
a standard the home listener would be in synch with the intentions of
the recordist. I don't remember the details but I think the roll-off
matched that of Altec monitors. He also made a pitch for Altec's
equalizer being the best way to implement such a roll-off. The idea of a
standard makes sense in a way (works for motion pictures) but goes
against the grain of home loudspeaker marketing needs.
Regards Tom Brennan
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: Van Gelder
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 01:23:07 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
On Mon, 04 May 1998 16:44:36 -0700, spence barton <ence-ack@rio.com>
wrote:
>I'll take the top end of most old records over most of
>what I hear that is modern.
Agreed. The HF on most new records sounds like steam escaping.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Koridon, Ronald" <gc201@civility.amsterdam.nl>
Subject: RE: Van Gelder
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:16:32 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
Joes,
My left ear is very bad (-60 dB) it also makes all kind of noises
(tinninitus), from very poor to very heavy, depending on time of the
year and/or time of the day. Also the balance control of both ears does
not function. I cannot hear(understand) what people say to me if they
are on my left side. But I can hear if the sound produced by a stereo
system comes from left, the middle or the right. If I think an amp
(system) sounds right (then there are no strange echoes in my left ear),
all of my audio friends agree that the amp (system) sounds good. If I do
not like the sound (due to a strange kind of distortion heard by my left
ear) not all of my friends agree. This strange distortion fenomena is
most worse with cheap transistor amps.
What I ment to say, hearing impaired or not I very much enjoy making my
own amps, because since I do, I much more enjoy the music.
Ronald Koridon,
Amsterdam.
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: jc morrison [SMTP:jcm@eclipse.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 4 mei 1998 19:50
> Aan: joenet
> Onderwerp: Re: Van Gelder
>
> hey all,
> blue notes are really bright because rudy was half deaf. alot of
> speculation has gone into the "it makes it more intimate, like your
> head
> was inside the trumpet" sort of viewpoint. its just ironic that this
> cranky little hobokenite wound up recording lots of the most important
> recordings of the century. tinninitus! i have it too, my right ear
> only,
> big pain in the ass...
> jc
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: RE: Van Gelder
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:51:54 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
At 12:16 PM 5/5/98 +0200, Koridon, Ronald wrote:
>Joes,
.
>What I ment to say, hearing impaired or not I very much enjoy making my
>own amps, because since I do, I much more enjoy the music.
>
>Ronald Koridon,
>Amsterdam.
>
Thank you Ron , this is the right to the heart and soul of what this is all
about .
Bill Gardner
=========================================================================
From: "Lynn T. Olson" <lynno@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Van Gelder
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:33:43 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n270
>I remember an article in Audio written many years ago by an engineer
>from Altec. He argued that a certain gentle high frequency roll-off be
>implemented on all monitors and home speakers. He thought that with such
>a standard the home listener would be in synch with the intentions of
>the recordist. I don't remember the details but I think the roll-off
>matched that of Altec monitors. He also made a pitch for Altec's
>equalizer being the best way to implement such a roll-off. The idea of a
>standard makes sense in a way (works for motion pictures) but goes
>against the grain of home loudspeaker marketing needs.
>Regards Tom Brennan
Considering that the most famous prosound products are characterized by
severe impulse response distortions and delayed resonances (those ridges in
the 3D waterfall plot), this is a sensible recommendation to tame the
screech. The acid test is pink noise. If the speaker is perfect, the pink
noise should sound like a waterfall or the surf crashing on the beach.
Well, naturally all speakers flunk this test pretty bad.
The question, though, is a matter of degree. This is where prosound
speakers minus EQ get into real trouble, since all of the resonances are
exposed by the random, full-spectrum nature of pink noise. The threshold
for audibility of resonance with pink noise is 20 to 30dB below the main
response curve (ie it never shows up on the conventional freq response
curve). With music, the threshold for audibility is 0 to 8dB below the main
curve, depending on the density of the spectrum (Jazz exposes resonances
the least, large choruses and orchestral music the most).
Balancing a speaker to be "flat" on pink-noise is interesting, since you
naturally pull down the equalizer to suppress the aubility of a narrow-band
resonance, so it won't jump out at you. When you look again at the main FR
curve, you find you have pulled down entire regions of the spectrum. Well
guess what, when you look at a lot closer using FFT techniques (not
available to the old-timers), you discover narrowband resonances lurking in
the region that needed pulling down.
In a way, this what audiophiles do when the build in euphonic colorations
to mask distortions elsewhere in the system. A very common example is the
analog electronics in the DAC slewing (at least 80V/uSec are required at a
bare minimum) ... this is a nearly universal problem with opamps built into
DAC converters and many "audiophile" DACs. This creates an ugly screeching
sound when the CD really gets going LOUD, and most folks who haven't built
fast DACs don't realize it isn't actually in the recording; it's a defect
in the design of the signal-conditioning electronics.
What we see in audiophile-dom is an attempt to "sweeten" this mess with
soft-sounding electronics later in the chain. In a sense, this works,
getting rid of most of the screech. However, once you hear a really fast
DAC connected to low-distortion triodes, the game is up. Suddenly there's
*lots* more music there, and the fatigue is gone as well. It stops sounding
like electronics and it sounds a whole lot closer to real music in a real
room.
The same sweetening techniques are routinely applied to speakers. However,
I feel the way to get rid of resonances in speakers is not to mask them
with EQ, but get rid of them in the first place. Smooth the horn
termination into the room, use diaphragms that don't break up in the audio
range, snip out the bug-screen, discover the impedance ripples and find
their source, let the crossover (active or passive) easily absorb back-EMF
reflected from the voice-coil, etc etc. In short, if your speaker needs a
bunch of EQ anywhere, there's trouble in River City. Rather than cover it
up with a press blackout, when not root it out at the source?
With modern FFT techniques, this is now much easier (and cheaper!) Back
when I started the speaker gig in 1974-75, this kind of gear required a
dedicated HP minicomputer (costing a mere $120,000) and a full-time FORTRAN
programmer. (This is the KEF setup I saw in 1975.) Nowadays, you just buy
IMP if you're hurting for dollars, or get MLSSA or CLIO if you want the
stuff pros use.
I should add that chasing resonances is damn tedious work, getting rid of
them one at a time. At best, after many months, you might get rid of two,
three, or four really ugly ones ... and there are always more lurking
nearby. However, after the worst of them are gone, you can lighten up on
the EQ, and sure enough, more music rushes through. You know you've really
done your homework when the speaker needs as little EQ as possible, and
it'll play the really lousy records and CD's and you can finally enjoy the
recordings for what they are. That gets rid of the audiophile monkey ...
all the records start to sound good, and system can play more than one kind
of music with success.
Lynn T. Olson
E-mail: lynno@teleport.com
Ariel Speaker Page: http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Van Gelder
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:23:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n270
Lynn said:
>
chasing resonances is damn tedious work... after the worst of them are
gone, you can lighten up on
> the EQ, and sure enough, more music rushes through.
Ney Lynn,
I'm not sure what you are on about when it comes to horns: you have to
boost up the hf to compensate for natural roll off. It deosn't come back by
itself. Also there is no other way to get rid of a resonant peak in the
driver passband other than a notch filter -- ease up on the notch and back
comes the resonance. Damping a horn doesn't help anything here, obviously.
Damping resonances in or near the crossover point with notch filters is a
subtle business. Rolling off three ocataves above resonance w/4th order
filter on the other hand is a camparitively easy and unsubtle fix by
comparison. Kind of like as amputation stands to brain surgery!
Regards,
Mark
=========================================================================
From: irishtom@webtv.net (tom brennan)
Subject: Re: Van Gelder
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 06:18:10 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n270
Lynn--About these resonances in pro speakers (horns I presume), what is
their cause? Is there something inherant in compression drivers and
horns that causes these problems? Do most metal diapraghms resonate in
the audible region? Might a phenolic midrange and a tweeter (ala PWK)
make for a smoother, more resonant free sound compared to a metal
diapraghmed 2=way? I know that many 1" metal dome tweeters ring just
above 20K so I can imagine that 2" metal compression diapraghms could
have audible ringing. Do you know if the newer patterned diapraghms by
JBL alleviate ringing? Let me say that I enjoy your articles and your
open-minded approach to things.
Tom Brennan
=========================================================================
From: "Mark Donen" <soledadd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Van Gelder effect/horns
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:25:44 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n269
This is purely speculative and I have no evidence to support this:
Have you noticed how on most of the old blue note records, there is
scratchy over boosted top? Actually on a lot of old records. Now I used to
think this was because they had just discovered hf in those days, and
tweeters being new they wanted to use em. Now I think it has to do with the
fact that Rudy and his co-engineers were using 604s to monitor and like any
horn tweeter the thing rolls off pretty good after 3/4K and especially
badly off axis. What is the solution?, lean on the eq. They were eqing for
the horn roll off with the master eq, not the monitor eq. This explains
why, now that I have nicely rolling off altecs, the top end on Rudy's old
records actually sound okay for the first time since i got rid of those
nasty dynaudio dome esotars, which are feeble compared to a 1 inch
compression driver!
=========================================================================
From: Ron Steinberg <ca789@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: variac
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:07:06 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n248
Thanks to all who responded to my request for a variac.
Regards,
Ron
======================================================================
Ron Steinberg Photographer <ca789@torfree.net>
Though self employed, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
======================================================================
=========================================================================
From: Bodo Kalthoff <bodo@uni-paderborn.de>
Subject: VE 35 (Telefunken?)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:36:39 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n579
Hi all,
I've picked up a pair of VE35 monoblocks. The former owner told me that
they will deliver about 25 W in class A and that they are a special
Version of the Telefunken V69A using an aluminium chassis. Each block
uses two EF804S, one ECC803S and two El 34. I'm looking for additional
information about these amps.
Best regards and happy listening,
Bodo
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Veneering with an iron
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:36:04 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n384
Hi,
This is probably old info for everyone...but last week I started
planning
to build wooden sides for a PS chassis so I found some info re.a
technique
for the use of yellow carpenters glue and a household iron to apply
veneer.
Polyvinyl acetate glues (i.e. Titebond II, etc.) are thermoplastic at ~
250 F.
when dry.
The October 1994 issue of Fine Woodworking has a DIY article that covers
it.
Some woodworking stores carry back issues of that mag. Otherwise the
publisher
is The Taunton Press, PO Box 5506, Newtown, Conn. 06470.
Regards,
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Veneering with an iron
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:48:52 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n384
Joe Pledger wrote:
>
> Hi,
> This is probably old info for everyone...but last week I started
> planning
> to build wooden sides for a PS chassis so I found some info re.a
> technique
> for the use of yellow carpenters glue and a household iron to apply
> veneer.
> Polyvinyl acetate glues (i.e. Titebond II, etc.) are thermoplastic at ~
> 250 F.
> when dry.
> The October 1994 issue of Fine Woodworking has a DIY article that covers
> it.
> Some woodworking stores carry back issues of that mag. Otherwise the
> publisher
> is The Taunton Press, PO Box 5506, Newtown, Conn. 06470.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Pledger
Hi,
I veneered a pair of homebrew JBL Harkness rear-loaded horn enclosures
back in 1965 with walnut veneer, wretched things they were (the
enclosures). I used contact cement and followed the advice to use a
medium-temperature flat-iron to "press" the veneer into snug contact
with the wood. It worked very well, just be careful to not use too hot
an iron, or hold it in one place too long, or the veneer can split.
This is esp true for large surfaces.
DM
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: Ventures albums wanted
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:11:28 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n126
Hi guys -
If you're pawing thru the vinyl any time soon and come across the
following, could you grab them for me? Your cost plus a semi-generous
finder's fee would be forthcoming.
I'm looking for several volumes of a series of albums that the Ventures put
out in the early to mid '60s, called "Play Guitar with the Ventures" and,
more specifically, the first (includes "Tequila" and "Walk Don't Run") and
then Volumes 2 and 7.
Any help would be much appreciated. Looking for that perfect Christmas
gift for my little lesbian bartendress. Also looking for any books on how
to encourage someone to switch teams, if you know what I mean. - Pining
away Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
=========================================================================
From: "Ken Dangerfield" <bpyakd@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: Ventures albums wanted
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:53:07 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n126
Geez Pat, you're not thinking of leaving our team are you??
Regards,
Ken Dangerfield
> Patrick Currie wrote:
>> Also looking for any books on how
> > to encourage someone to switch teams, if you know what I mean.
>
=========================================================================
From: Daniel Normolle <monk@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Ventures albums wanted
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:35:41 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n126
Patrick Currie wrote:
> Hi guys -
>
> Any help would be much appreciated. Looking for that perfect Christmas
> gift for my little lesbian bartendress. Also looking for any books on how
> to encourage someone to switch teams, if you know what I mean.
You want a sex change operation?
dpn
=========================================================================
From: Dan Cradler <dcradler@mods.com>
Subject: Re: Ventures albums wanted
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:38:13 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n127
> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:11:28 -0500
> From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
>
> I'm looking for several volumes of a series of albums that the Ventures put
> out in the early to mid '60s, called "Play Guitar with the Ventures" and,
> more specifically, the first (includes "Tequila" and "Walk Don't Run") and
> then Volumes 2 and 7.
Don't know if you HAVE to have vinyl or not but at least the first few of
these have been reisued on CD and are available from Tower Records. Do a
search for Ventures at www.towerrecords.com. Good luck on getting her to
switch teams - I think there was a Seinfeld episode about that. Which bar
in Madison are you refering to? I go there a couple times a year. Maybe
you should tell her you're a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Cradler Modern Solutions
dcradler@modernsolutions.com Full-Service Web Space Provider
702-323-3341 http://www.mods.com
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: Re: Ventures albums wanted
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:28:39 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n127
>> Patrick Currie wrote:
>
>>> Also looking for any books on how
>> > to encourage someone to switch teams, if you know what I mean.
>>
>Geez Pat, you're not thinking of leaving our team are you??
>
>Regards,
>Ken Dangerfield
>
Me? Hey, I'm a shortstop on our team. Or, maybe with increasing age and
infirmity, a good candidate for designated hitter. Problem is, I've been
on the inactive list for so damn long, my timing is all off. I've also
been nursing a pulled groin for quite a while. - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
(608)233-8956, 266-9290 (Madison, WI)
=========================================================================
From: "Hilary A. Paprocki" <h23@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Ventures Albums wanted
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:51:53 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n128
Used Ventures albums in good shape are pretty darned
hard to find. Collectors' Choice is a great place to
find the CD reissues. HP (that's me) says look for the
See For Miles label...they have the first four albums
(the really good pre-Mosrite stuff) on two CDs,
and the sound quality on these has to be the best available.
I think Collectors' Choice is at ccmusic.com.
Hilary Paprocki
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Vertical array rear loaded.
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 21:52:19 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n304
Just wondering if anyone has built or heard a verticle array using 8 to
10 small cone, full range drivers with a rear loaded port or 1/4
wavelength baffle?
TIA
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: "Greg Monfort" <wingracer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Vertical array rear loaded.
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 03:27:53 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n304
Yes, old large PA column speakers. Useless for music reproduction. A
design that seems to work fairly well though is two rows of four on
a horizontally and vertically bifurcated baffle focused to about a
foot in front of the listening position. My current 20cuft sub
enclosures each started life housing eight 6.5" Clarion car audio
coaxial speakers tuned to 40hz. Pretty impressive for 1968. Using
some high quality coincident drivers would be an interesting
project.
GM
- -----Original Message-----
>Just wondering if anyone has built or heard a verticle array using
8 to
>10 small cone, full range drivers with a rear loaded port or 1/4
>wavelength baffle?
>
>TIA
>
>Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: Vertical array rear loaded.
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 22:38:17 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n304
Joe Pledger wrote:
>
> Just wondering if anyone has built or heard a verticle array > using
8 to 10 small cone, full range drivers with a rear > loaded port or 1/4
wavelength baffle?
Around 10-12 years ago I did some work on speakers build after this
principle, although I didn't use any rear loading. You might get good
results by carefully controlling the summed output of the drivers, not
using a cluster/a column
of elements high enough to create disturbing comb-filter
effects.Meaning: A vertical array of tweeters don't work that good, as
a shift in listening height is immediately noticed...
In the bass area, where wavelenghts are big, using multipples of
woofers in a baffle works really good. This way of loading isn't
working/dealing with,-relying on,- resonnances of any kind, and I guess
is the only principle that gets you a lowered Fs, *and* lowered
Qts,-simultaneously.
TL.
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Very cool tube site, not in English...
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:04:56 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n457
http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41622/docs/Sv_front.HTM
Cheers!
S.G.
- --
Visit TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore!
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude
Also check out Smoke Free Youth!
http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
See what I have for sale!
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/tubedude@cdc.net/
=========================================================================
From: tubesguy@mail.execpc.com (Patrick Currie)
Subject: video stuff source?
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:44:28 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
And, does anyone have a cheap _and_ reliable mail-order source for mid-fi
and video stuff? I can't find the DVD player I'm looking for locally (even
as a special order). What I'm looking for, by the way, is a Pioneer DV606.
TIA - Pat
Pat Currie (tubesguy@execpc.com)
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: video stuff source?
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:22:50 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n422
On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Patrick Currie wrote:
> And, does anyone have a cheap _and_ reliable mail-order source for mid-fi
> and video stuff? I can't find the DVD player I'm looking for locally (even
> as a special order). What I'm looking for, by the way, is a Pioneer DV606.
How about Audio Advisor? They seem pretty reputable. I bought a DAC from
them a while back. Service was prompt and prices were great, and now i
get catalogs ever other week or so... and they carry Pioneer DVD players.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: video stuff source?
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:09:10 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n423
On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:22:50 -0500 (CDT), Dave Stagner
<dstagner@icarus.net> wrote:
>How about Audio Advisor?
Or HCM Audio?
http://members.aol.com/hcmaudio
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Vietron? Ribbon Tweeters
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:52:54 +0000 (GMT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n469
Hi Folks,
I am not sure if the is the right place to ask but.....
I am looking for reasonably priced ribbon tweeters for a loudspeaker
project and have heard of a name like Vietron, Vietone, something like
that. Does anyone have the full details, and are they reasonably good?
(they come recommended by a friend)
Also on the loudspeaker topic, has anyone played around with single
pole/zero crossovers? I understand that if you get it right there is no
phase distortion (i.e. the transient response will be accurate).
TIA
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Peter Drake <peterd@ndsuk.com>
Subject: Re: Vietron? Ribbon Tweeters
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:48:47 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n469
Simon Busbridge wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I am not sure if the is the right place to ask but.....
>
> I am looking for reasonably priced ribbon tweeters for a loudspeaker
> project and have heard of a name like Vietron, Vietone, something like
> that. Does anyone have the full details, and are they reasonably good?
> (they come recommended by a friend)
>
> Also on the loudspeaker topic, has anyone played around with single
> pole/zero crossovers? I understand that if you get it right there is no
> phase distortion (i.e. the transient response will be accurate).
>
> TIA
>
> Simon
There was a review of ribbon tweeters in hifi world a few months back,
I can look it up if you're interested, but I don't remember that name.
One English ribbon is made by HR Dawson near Norwich, he has a website,
again if you're interested I'll find the address for you.
- --
Pete Drake
peterd@ndsuk.com
http://www.ndsworld.com
=========================================================================
From: "Ian McPhail" <i.mcphail@rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: re: Vinnie Gallo sighting
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:59:35 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n328
Check out the Vincent Gallo Appreciation Page:
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Theater/4666
it even mentions that he collects "HiFi equipment"!
regards Ian
Ian McPhail i.mcphail@rmit.edu.au
RMIT Chem and Met Eng Dept 110
GPO Box 2476V
Melbourne 3001
Australia
tel +61 3 9925 2408
fax +61 3 9925 3746
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: Re: vinyl
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:08:30 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
At 02:17 PM 11/25/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>
>----------
>> De : John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
>> A : Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
>> Cc : Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>;
>danmarshall@worldnet.att.net; sound@lists.io.com
>> Objet : Re: CD Player advice needed
>> Date : mardi 24 novembre 1998 15:49
>>
>> Kalman Rubinson wrote:
>>
>> > Cute but the major problem with LPs is simply that there is
>> > no way 'source' new performances on them. The music I want
>> > (aside from what I already have on LP) comes only on CD.
>>
>> I'm partial to pop and jazz, and I've not heard very many "new
>performances" that do
>> anything for me. I must be getting old.
>>
>> JL
>
>Same for me, most Jazz music I listen to is older than 1979.
>
>IMHO most of modern jazzmen are excellent technicians but where is the
>feeling (or is "mood" the proper word)
>
>Best regards!
>
>Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
>
OK so we are all old guys , we all like classic jazz on vinyl . A few years
ago i had this idea ( dumb ) hit the swap meets , flea markets , used
record stores .... one major flaw ... almost everything was worn out ,
maybe all those old Duals that tracked at 500 lbs ?? Where can i but new
records , 40s-70s jazz, r&b ?
TIA Wm Gardner
=========================================================================
From: Daniel Normolle <monk@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: vinyl
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:24:02 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
bill gardner wrote:
> OK so we are all old guys , we all like classic jazz on vinyl . A few years
> ago i had this idea ( dumb ) hit the swap meets , flea markets , used
> record stores .... one major flaw ... almost everything was worn out ,
> maybe all those old Duals that tracked at 500 lbs ?? Where can i but new
> records , 40s-70s jazz, r&b ?
> TIA Wm Gardner
Fantasy records still has a lot of the Original Jazz
Classic reissues on vinyl, and sells them at a
reasonable price (about $10). You can also
order directly from Fantasy via their catalog.
Check out their Web site at
http://www.fantasyjazz.com/
dpn (A codger, not an old fart)
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: vinyl
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:29:09 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, bill gardner wrote:
> OK so we are all old guys , we all like classic jazz on vinyl . A few years
> ago i had this idea ( dumb ) hit the swap meets , flea markets , used
> record stores .... one major flaw ... almost everything was worn out ,
> maybe all those old Duals that tracked at 500 lbs ?? Where can i but new
> records , 40s-70s jazz, r&b ?
Hah! That's the rub. No new vinyl.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: vinyl
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:52:46 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
At 9:08 AM -0600 11/25/98, bill gardner wrote:
>OK so we are all old guys , we all like classic jazz on vinyl . A few years
>ago i had this idea ( dumb ) hit the swap meets , flea markets , used
>record stores .... one major flaw ... almost everything was worn out ,
>maybe all those old Duals that tracked at 500 lbs ?? Where can i but new
>records , 40s-70s jazz, r&b ?
> TIA Wm Gardner
I find jazz records in any decent condition hard to find, but classical is
a snap. Thrift shops are full of stuff people only played once or never
opened at all. I'm really lucky, in Rockville, Md. there is a huge
second-hand book and record repository, $1 each! I mean tons of the stuff,
including opera sets.
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Dale.Simon@ps.net
Subject: Re[2]: vinyl
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:26:00 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
OK so we are all old guys , we all like classic jazz on vinyl . A few years
ago i had this idea ( dumb ) hit the swap meets , flea markets , used
record stores .... one major flaw ... almost everything was worn out ,
maybe all those old Duals that tracked at 500 lbs ?? Where can i but new
records , 40s-70s jazz, r&b ?
TIA Wm Gardner
Don't lose heart, it's out there. Just not where you expect it.
Dale
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: vinyl
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:34:38 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v01.n503
On Wed, 25 Nov