Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 2
=========================================================================
From: "Eric Weitzman" <eweitzman@acm.org>
Subject: [JN] 800kHz from outer space, or, Reichert 300B driver problem
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:45:52 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n614
Hi.
I've been poking around inside by Reichert 300B amps trying to figure
out why the driver tubes (6SN7GTB) keep going bad. I posted some
messages about this a few months back.
I've measured all part values and voltages, and everything is well
within spec. So now I'm moving on to find any oscillations.
I'm using a 60mHz scope and a cheap handheld BK Precision 3001 $60
signal generator. I thought that I had found an 800kHz signal floating
around at about 2mv. So, I started to track it back from output to
input. When I finally measured it on the amp's input jack where I
hooked up the signal generator, it was still there. So, I disconnected
the signal generator from the amp and hooked the scope probe to the
leads from the generator. Still there. Aha! Bad signal generator, I
thought. Next, disconnected the leads from the signal generator and I
touched the probe directly to the output jack of the signal
generator. No 800kHz. Aha! Bad signal generator leads, I thought.
While hooking the probe and leads back up again to verify this, I
touched the probe tip. 800kHz again! Hmmm.... So, I moved my hands
around, touched the scope, let go, and so on, and found that the
800kHz changed amplitude between about 2mv and 5mv during these
acrobatics. It's not coming from the amp or signal generator, but from
outer space! Maybe this is why I have such bad results with unshielded
interconnects.
My questions are:
- - am I being showered in 800kHz from some hostile source in my house?
- - how can I find it and eliminate it?
- - would this be sufficient to burn out only the driver half of a 6SN7
after a couple of months of exposure if it was sympathetic to the
tuning of some of the parasitics in the driver circuit?
- - how can I best protect the ciruit and tubes from this?
- - could a grid stopper on the driver still work if the circuit is
still being bombarded by the exciting frequency?
Thanks,
- - Eric
=========================================================================
From: Tom Neudorfl <neudorfl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 800kHz from outer space, or, Reichert 300B driver problem
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 15:44:32 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n614
Hi Eric
I'm relatively new to tubes, and brand new to the list, so take what
I say with a grain of something, perhaps something salty;
nevertheless, here's my $0.02 worth:
> - am I being showered in 800kHz from some hostile source in my
> house?
I've seen really weird things like this happen in areas with unclean
AC. You might try repeating the tests at, say, 3am on a Sunday when
line noise is usually quieter. Otherwise, try running the equipment
on a harmonic filter.
> - how can I find it and eliminate it?
Try simply measuring your AC line with the scope--I think you'll be
surprised by what you'll find.
By touching the probe you are inducing all kinds of ground loops etc.
so if you may want to check to make sure that all the grounding has
been done correctly. One of the most common source of interference
is ground loops through power and signal cables: your entire system
should only be grounded by only one component if it's interconnected
by RCA plugs in operation and only the amp OR scope should by
grounded during testing.
> - would this be sufficient to burn out only the driver half of a
> 6SN7 after a couple of months of exposure if it was sympathetic to
> the tuning of some of the parasitics in the driver circuit?
I guess it could but the 6SN7 is a fairly tough tube if I'm not
mistaken so it would surprise me...
> - could a grid stopper on the driver still work if the circuit is
> still being bombarded by the exciting frequency?
I would think it would, as long as it is tuned correctly, so try
doubling the existing resistance and see if it helps. Furthermore,
you may simply try using a different type of resistor with the same
value--a good wirewound resistor with a bit of inductunce might be
just the key.
Best of luck!
Cheers
Tom
=====
Tom Neudorfl UBC Mech Eng Student
neudorfl@interchange.ubc.ca
(613) 741-3956
==================================================
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 800kHz from outer space, or, Reichert 300B driver problem
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:27:46 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n614
In a message dated 7/30/00 1:48:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
eweitzman@acm.org writes:
> 800kHz from some hostile source
Hi Eric,
WCCO is a 'clear channel' AM radio station from Minneapolis, Minnesota at
830KHz... just a thought.
Always the same half of the 6SN7 ... on both channels?
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
=========================================================================
From: "Paul@13E1.com" <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] 800kHz from outer space, or, Reichert 300B driver problem
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:54:50 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n615
It might be worth trying ferrite beads - right on the grid pins (where all
grid stoppers should be soldered of course).
Paul de R. Leclercq
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Neudorfl <neudorfl@yahoo.com>
To: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] 800kHz from outer space, or, Reichert 300B driver problem
>
> Hi Eric
>
> I'm relatively new to tubes, and brand new to the list, so take what
> I say with a grain of something, perhaps something salty;
> nevertheless, here's my $0.02 worth:
>
> > - am I being showered in 800kHz from some hostile source in my
> > house?
>
> I've seen really weird things like this happen in areas with unclean
> AC. You might try repeating the tests at, say, 3am on a Sunday when
> line noise is usually quieter. Otherwise, try running the equipment
> on a harmonic filter.
>
> > - how can I find it and eliminate it?
>
> Try simply measuring your AC line with the scope--I think you'll be
> surprised by what you'll find.
>
> By touching the probe you are inducing all kinds of ground loops etc.
> so if you may want to check to make sure that all the grounding has
> been done correctly. One of the most common source of interference
> is ground loops through power and signal cables: your entire system
> should only be grounded by only one component if it's interconnected
> by RCA plugs in operation and only the amp OR scope should by
> grounded during testing.
>
> > - would this be sufficient to burn out only the driver half of a
> > 6SN7 after a couple of months of exposure if it was sympathetic to
> > the tuning of some of the parasitics in the driver circuit?
>
> I guess it could but the 6SN7 is a fairly tough tube if I'm not
> mistaken so it would surprise me...
>
> > - could a grid stopper on the driver still work if the circuit is
> > still being bombarded by the exciting frequency?
>
> I would think it would, as long as it is tuned correctly, so try
> doubling the existing resistance and see if it helps. Furthermore,
> you may simply try using a different type of resistor with the same
> value--a good wirewound resistor with a bit of inductunce might be
> just the key.
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Cheers
> Tom
>
> =====
> Tom Neudorfl UBC Mech Eng Student
> neudorfl@interchange.ubc.ca
> (613) 741-3956
>
> ==================================================
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] 800 number for buyer of dud transmitting tubes?
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:33:40 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n073
A long long time ago I mentioned this 12KV transmitting tube I stumbled
on, and some kind soul posted a toll-free number for a place that buys
up such stuff -- even duds -- to rebuild and sell. I lost the number.
Can someone please help out?
Thanks,
Rick
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping to get rid of some big weird stuff. Here's one example, a WE
magnetron, that weighs about 65 lb for the tube, and another 30 for the
wood crate -- too heavy for UPS!
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795-1.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795CU.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795CU1.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795CU2.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795Case.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795Case2.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795Case3.jpg
Pick up in Toledo, and git yore self uh treasure.
=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 800 number for buyer of dud transmitting tubes?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:21:05 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n073
On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Rick Francis wrote:
> A long long time ago I mentioned this 12KV transmitting tube I stumbled
> on, and some kind soul posted a toll-free number for a place that buys
> up such stuff -- even duds -- to rebuild and sell. I lost the number.
> Can someone please help out?
There are two companies that I know of :
Freeland Products and Econco. They specialize in rebuilding industral
and broadcast tubes. Sorry no numbers available.
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 800 number for buyer of dud transmitting tubes?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:42:24 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n073
One place that rebuilds such tubes is called Econco, Inc. I don't have the
number handy, it's at work. I picked up a booklet from them at a metal fab
trade show a few years ago. I believe they are out of California.
Chris Beck
Rick Francis wrote:
> A long long time ago I mentioned this 12KV transmitting tube I stumbled
> on, and some kind soul posted a toll-free number for a place that buys
> up such stuff -- even duds -- to rebuild and sell. I lost the number.
> Can someone please help out?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> I'm hoping to get rid of some big weird stuff. Here's one example, a WE
> magnetron, that weighs about 65 lb for the tube, and another 30 for the
> wood crate -- too heavy for UPS!
>
> http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795-1.jpg
> http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795CU.jpg
> http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795CU1.jpg
> http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795CU2.jpg
> http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795Case.jpg
> http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795Case2.jpg
> http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE5795Case3.jpg
>
> Pick up in Toledo, and git yore self uh treasure.
>
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] 8012: The Triode for Rugged Individualists?
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:48:09 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n262
Joes, I came across four of these wild-looking triode tubes. Sort of the
saguaro cactus of tubes:
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/8012.jpg (40kb image, with 6AX4
tube included for scale)
The TT-5 gives basic specs for the 8012A; can anyone tell me if the 8012
is substantially different? Pd is given as 40 max watts...
Thanks for any help. OH- and if anyone REALLY wants to build an amp
around these, contact me. I seriously doubt I'll get around to it.
Filament voltage is a simple 6.3 @ 1.92A -- and the filament is center
tapped!
Rick
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 8012: The Triode for Rugged Individualists?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:49:48 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n263
Rick Francis wrote:
> Joes, I came across four of these wild-looking triode tubes. Sort of the
> saguaro cactus of tubes:
FYI, there's a design for a 6BM8/8012A amp in the Shishido book.
JL
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:18:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n949
Hi all.....hope your summer's been good.
Well, Labor day is on the horizon, which means that summer is fast
approaching its end....which means thoughts turn to THE NEXT PROJECT!!!!
:-)
What's been running through my mind during the hot days on the beach (well,
not really) has been triode connected 807's . I want the next project to
be good sounding but cheap and cheerful....not the major investment or
difficulty involved in my last P/P 845 project.
This is a clarion call to all the great Joenet brains to pipe up on possible
topologies and operating points.......previous experience with the 807 not
required.
Need to decide the basics: I think I'm settled on P/P operation but not on
the phase splitter or driver stages, although for simplicity's sake, I more
easily lean to some simple octals for those tasks.......
Most want to hear from the great (!) minds....this includes, (but is not
limited to) Bob Danielak , Dave Slagle, Steve Berger, Paul Joppa, Grover
Gardner, Roscoe Primrose, Steve Bench.........and on and on the list
goes.......
Together, let's come up with a neat and easy, great sounding schematic and
maybe it'll be my ticket into next year's NYNoise show.
All the best,
Dan
=========================================================================
From: Phil <tube@jump.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:30:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n949
From a minor mind ...
How about using 1624's, a directly heated filament version of the 807, with
24/28
watts dissipation (depending on which manufacturer's notes you read)? The only
downside is that it has a plate resistance of about 2500 to 3000 ohms in triode
mode, about twice that of an 807 (thanks Al for pointing out this tube!).
Phil
Daniel Dicker wrote:
> Hi all.....hope your summer's been good.
>
> Well, Labor day is on the horizon, which means that summer is fast
> approaching its end....which means thoughts turn to THE NEXT PROJECT!!!!
> :-)
>
> What's been running through my mind during the hot days on the beach (well,
> not really) has been triode connected 807's . I want the next project to
> be good sounding but cheap and cheerful....not the major investment or
> difficulty involved in my last P/P 845 project.
>
> This is a clarion call to all the great Joenet brains to pipe up on possible
> topologies and operating points.......previous experience with the 807 not
> required.
>
> Need to decide the basics: I think I'm settled on P/P operation but not on
> the phase splitter or driver stages, although for simplicity's sake, I more
> easily lean to some simple octals for those tasks.......
>
> Most want to hear from the great (!) minds....this includes, (but is not
> limited to) Bob Danielak , Dave Slagle, Steve Berger, Paul Joppa, Grover
> Gardner, Roscoe Primrose, Steve Bench.........and on and on the list
> goes.......
>
> Together, let's come up with a neat and easy, great sounding schematic and
> maybe it'll be my ticket into next year's NYNoise show.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dan
=========================================================================
From: SBench@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:28:11 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n949
In a message dated 01-08-18 14:14:31 EDT, dbdicker@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> This is a clarion call to all the great Joenet brains to pipe up on
possible
> topologies and operating points.......previous experience with the 807 not
> required.
>
> Need to decide the basics: I think I'm settled on P/P operation but not on
> the phase splitter or driver stages, although for simplicity's sake, I
more
> easily lean to some simple octals for those tasks.......
>
> Most want to hear from the great (!) minds....this includes, (but is not
> limited to) Bob Danielak , Dave Slagle, Steve Berger, Paul Joppa,
Grover
> Gardner, Roscoe Primrose, Steve Bench.........and on and on the list
> goes.......
>
> Together, let's come up with a neat and easy, great sounding schematic and
> maybe it'll be my ticket into next year's NYNoise show.
>
Hi,
807s tend to want the same conditions as 6L6, particularly in triode mode.
For relatively low power, try 300V and 60mA (per tube) (about -24V bias).
This means you'll only need 48V p-p swing. This might even allow a
very simple drive stage of 8532 (6J4) to a 1:1:1 or 2:1:1 IT/phase splitter.
(with the 8532 at 150V and 15mA).
Best Regards,
Steve
=========================================================================
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:59:06 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n949
Daniel,
best of luck with the 807s.
There is a piece somewhere on the web about Langfod-Smith's 807 Williamson
amp. He ran them triode-strapped at 400V very successfully.
I am a great enthusiast for triode-strapping - one saves SO much money and
gets to use interesting valves!
I build only push-pull amplifiers, and have settled on cascaded differential
pairs as my favourite. I too, prefer octals - and lately, Loctals. I have
found that one can make a very good diff. pair with a 6SN7. If you build a
cascode current sink (see Morgan Jones's book Valve Amplifiers) with a -15V
supply, you get excellent balance.
I have built an amplifier with triode strapped 13E1s, these are driven by a
directly coupled cathode follower. There is of course, a -ve supply to
provide the bias. This is also applied to the driver giving excellent
voltage swing at low distortion. I cannot recall 807's requirements in the
bias department, but you may want to give this some thought.
Best wishes
Paul Leclercq
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Dicker <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
To: Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 11:18 AM
Subject: [JN] 807 Project
> Hi all.....hope your summer's been good.
>
> Well, Labor day is on the horizon, which means that summer is fast
> approaching its end....which means thoughts turn to THE NEXT PROJECT!!!!
> :-)
>
> What's been running through my mind during the hot days on the beach
(well,
> not really) has been triode connected 807's . I want the next project to
> be good sounding but cheap and cheerful....not the major investment or
> difficulty involved in my last P/P 845 project.
>
> This is a clarion call to all the great Joenet brains to pipe up on
possible
> topologies and operating points.......previous experience with the 807 not
> required.
>
> Need to decide the basics: I think I'm settled on P/P operation but not
on
> the phase splitter or driver stages, although for simplicity's sake, I
more
> easily lean to some simple octals for those tasks.......
>
> Most want to hear from the great (!) minds....this includes, (but is not
> limited to) Bob Danielak , Dave Slagle, Steve Berger, Paul Joppa,
Grover
> Gardner, Roscoe Primrose, Steve Bench.........and on and on the list
> goes.......
>
> Together, let's come up with a neat and easy, great sounding schematic and
> maybe it'll be my ticket into next year's NYNoise show.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dan
>
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:57:54 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n950
I have a number of 807s (and brethern -- 1625 and RK-39). This is the most
interesting amp i've seen so far. A differential cascode driven 807 PP from
a 1956 Radio Electronics;
<http://homepage.mac.com/triodes/RE1625amp.gif>
The front end could be replaced with Allen Wright's
<http://www.vacuumstate.com/images/PP-1C_a.gif>
dave
_______________
enjoy the music, it's all that counts
=========================================================================
From: rcjones1@mmm.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:42:57 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n950
What about like a 6SN7 with a IT/Phase splitter transformer? It would be
really simple.
Richard
=========================================================================
From: Tony Rendle <trendle@netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:50:39 +1000 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n950
Nostalgia! I built a Williamson amplifier with triode connected 807s in
1957: it worked well. My only caution is to make sure you use insulated
connectors to the anodes at the top.
Regards,
Tony Rendle
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <david@retrovox.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:30:22 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n950
"Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com> wrote:
>best of luck with the 807s.
>
>There is a piece somewhere on the web about Langfod-Smith's 807 Williamson
>amp. He ran them triode-strapped at 400V very successfully.
>
1947 Radiotronics, AWV Co Australia.
Here's the link: (800K acrobat file):
<http://www.retrovox.com.au/A515.pdf>
- --
David Crittle
david@retrovox.com.au
<http://www.retrovox.com.au>
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <david@retrovox.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:26:15 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n950
Full specs on type 807, as published by STC Australia
<http://www.retrovox.com.au/STC807.pdf>
30+ pages, large file!
Two other valves with similar specs are the british made STC 5B/254M
(CV428) and 5B/255M (CV391). These are loctal base types, with CV428
having a top cap anode connection and CV391 with no top cap. Type
CV391 overcomes the fear of anode top caps suffered by some
constructors.
Full specs, inc triode connected, at:
<http://www.retrovox.com.au/5B254M.pdf>
- --
David Crittle
david@retrovox.com.au
<http://www.retrovox.com.au>
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:48:01 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n951
Steve,
Thanks, this is quite like what I have in mind.....except I don't think I
want iron to do the duty of phase splitting on this particular
project.......
Would you or any one else like to venture a phase splitter?? I know this is
an open-ended question.....but still, give it a go, with the proviso that a
standard split-load phase splitter (might) not be my first choice.....or
should it be??
Go to it, I love to see you guys think....... HA!
Best,
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <SBench@aol.com>
To: <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>; <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
> In a message dated 01-08-18 14:14:31 EDT, dbdicker@worldnet.att.net
writes:
>
> >
> > This is a clarion call to all the great Joenet brains to pipe up on
> possible
> > topologies and operating points.......previous experience with the 807
not
> > required.
> >
> > Need to decide the basics: I think I'm settled on P/P operation but
not on
> > the phase splitter or driver stages, although for simplicity's sake, I
> more
> > easily lean to some simple octals for those tasks.......
> >
> > Most want to hear from the great (!) minds....this includes, (but is
not
> > limited to) Bob Danielak , Dave Slagle, Steve Berger, Paul Joppa,
> Grover
> > Gardner, Roscoe Primrose, Steve Bench.........and on and on the list
> > goes.......
> >
> > Together, let's come up with a neat and easy, great sounding schematic
and
> > maybe it'll be my ticket into next year's NYNoise show.
> >
> Hi,
> 807s tend to want the same conditions as 6L6, particularly in triode mode.
> For relatively low power, try 300V and 60mA (per tube) (about -24V bias).
> This means you'll only need 48V p-p swing. This might even allow a
> very simple drive stage of 8532 (6J4) to a 1:1:1 or 2:1:1 IT/phase
splitter.
> (with the 8532 at 150V and 15mA).
>
> Best Regards,
> Steve
=========================================================================
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:56:33 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n951
Well if you are not using iron (glass looks SO much better) then the usual
choices apply.
You have first to decide whether to run single ended up to the output pair
(Thorsten prefers this), or split "early)
As you know I prefer differential pairs, but given that Steve says that you
need only 48v, perhaps you could get the gain you require and follow up with
a nice beefy concertina - a 12B4 (if you can find one with good h/k
insulation) or a 6S4, running plenty of current.
Much depends upon your intended sensitivity of course; I have always found
it rather irritating that there is a dearth of valves with mu of around 25
or so (E182CC/7119 is not allowed on the premises - Ugh!). If you proposed
2v sensitivity, then a 6SN7 would not be quite enough for the input and an
E88CC/6922 or 7308 etc., would have to be used instead. There are of
course, numerous others although most of them are probably not as good -
e.g. 6BK7, 6BC8, 6BZ7 etc. You could make a nice dif pair with a couple of
417as though...
My personal preference would be to have the amplifier a little less
sensitive and use a 6/12SN7 or 7N7 as a diff pair and for the final
luxurious touch a second being a DC coupled cathode follower and drive the
thing with another diff pair in the line stage - but I know I'm on
contentious ground here so I'll just say
Cheerio!
Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Dicker <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
To: <SBench@aol.com>
Cc: Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
> Steve,
>
> Thanks, this is quite like what I have in mind.....except I don't think I
> want iron to do the duty of phase splitting on this particular
> project.......
>
> Would you or any one else like to venture a phase splitter?? I know this
is
> an open-ended question.....but still, give it a go, with the proviso that
a
> standard split-load phase splitter (might) not be my first choice.....or
> should it be??
>
> Go to it, I love to see you guys think....... HA!
>
> Best,
>
> Dan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <SBench@aol.com>
> To: <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>; <sound@lists.io.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
>
>
> > In a message dated 01-08-18 14:14:31 EDT, dbdicker@worldnet.att.net
> writes:
> >
> > >
> > > This is a clarion call to all the great Joenet brains to pipe up on
> > possible
> > > topologies and operating points.......previous experience with the
807
> not
> > > required.
> > >
> > > Need to decide the basics: I think I'm settled on P/P operation but
> not on
> > > the phase splitter or driver stages, although for simplicity's sake,
I
> > more
> > > easily lean to some simple octals for those tasks.......
> > >
> > > Most want to hear from the great (!) minds....this includes, (but is
> not
> > > limited to) Bob Danielak , Dave Slagle, Steve Berger, Paul Joppa,
> > Grover
> > > Gardner, Roscoe Primrose, Steve Bench.........and on and on the list
> > > goes.......
> > >
> > > Together, let's come up with a neat and easy, great sounding
schematic
> and
> > > maybe it'll be my ticket into next year's NYNoise show.
> > >
> > Hi,
> > 807s tend to want the same conditions as 6L6, particularly in triode
mode.
> > For relatively low power, try 300V and 60mA (per tube) (about -24V
bias).
> > This means you'll only need 48V p-p swing. This might even allow a
> > very simple drive stage of 8532 (6J4) to a 1:1:1 or 2:1:1 IT/phase
> splitter.
> > (with the 8532 at 150V and 15mA).
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Steve
>
=========================================================================
From: SBench@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:37:04 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n951
In a message dated 01-08-20 17:43:08 EDT, you write:
> Thanks, this is quite like what I have in mind.....except I don't think I
> want iron to do the duty of phase splitting on this particular
> project.......
>
> Would you or any one else like to venture a phase splitter?? I know this
is
> an open-ended question.....but still, give it a go, with the proviso that a
> standard split-load phase splitter (might) not be my first choice.....or
> should it be??
>
For a glass based phase inverter, at the signal levels you're looking at,
I'd think about suggesting (is that enough indirection?) a split load (so
called "Concertina" by some) phase inverter as Paul mentioned.
Biggest thing I don't like about 'em is their behaviour when you start to
draw grid current at their load. Unfortunately, buffering simply moves this
problem back one stage. Sooooooooo, how about this for a compromise...
2C51 or 6N1P input direct coupled to the second section acting as
split load phase inverter. This coupled to a 6SN7 or 5687 cathode follower.
Direct couple the cathode outputs to the grids of 807, and bias the input of
the
CF to the proper bias point. You'll need a -100V supply. The only needed
capacitor feeds between the phase inverter outputs and the cathode follower
inputs. For a -24V bias you'll need 26V peak driving the grids of the CF, or
about 28 volts peak drive into the phase splitter. Behind a 6N1P or 2C51, this
would require about 1Vpeak (sensitivity of 0.7VRMS).
Best Regards,
Steve
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:36:16 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n951
- --part1_cc.19b91491.28b3a1b0_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Greets!
My first design using real, store bought SE outputs (one-electron ubt-3) was
2C51 (5670, 396A), 5687, 6AS7 three tube stereo. RC coupled.
PP?
hmmmm :)
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
- --part1_cc.19b91491.28b3a1b0_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>Greets!
<BR>
<BR>My first design using real, store bought SE outputs (one-electron ubt-3) was
<BR>2C51 (5670, 396A), 5687, 6AS7 three tube stereo. RC coupled.
<BR>
<BR>PP?
<BR>
<BR>hmmmm :)
<BR>
<BR>Happy Ears!
<BR>Al B^}
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_cc.19b91491.28b3a1b0_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: pderl@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:35:12 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n951
Couldn't have put it better myself!:)
I am using a similar arrangement in my 13E1 amplifier, only there are two gain stages, both differen
tials (balanced input) and a cathode follower as Steve suggests. The second gain stage and the cath
ode follower have -ve supply. The only capacitors are between the first and second gain stages (E18
8CC/5687) it has proved to be excellent.
Paul
> For a glass based phase inverter, at the signal levels you're looking at,
> I'd think about suggesting (is that enough indirection?) a split load (so
> called "Concertina" by some) phase inverter as Paul mentioned.
> Biggest thing I don't like about 'em is their behaviour when you start to
> draw grid current at their load. Unfortunately, buffering simply moves this
> problem back one stage. Sooooooooo, how about this for a compromise...
> 2C51 or 6N1P input direct coupled to the second section acting as
> split load phase inverter. This coupled to a 6SN7 or 5687 cathode follower.
> Direct couple the cathode outputs to the grids of 807, and bias the input of
> the
> CF to the proper bias point. You'll need a -100V supply. The only needed
> capacitor feeds between the phase inverter outputs and the cathode follower
> inputs. For a -24V bias you'll need 26V peak driving the grids of the CF, or
> about 28 volts peak drive into the phase splitter. Behind a 6N1P or 2C51, this
> would require about 1Vpeak (sensitivity of 0.7VRMS).
>
> Best Regards,
> Steve
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:48:02 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
The Tucker & Seymour "iron concertina" is now on the joenet ftp server at
ftpperso.free.fr, thanks to str8aro John.
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: "tony" <ckg5@home.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:21:53 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
Try this link just look for IRON CONCERTIN
http://joelist.free.fr/
Tony
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
Behalf Of ToobWiz@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 3:26 PM
To: JEpstein@ndbcap.com; sound@lists.io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
In a message dated 08/21/2001 2:<BR49:<BR41 PM
Eastern Daylight , JEpstein@ndbcap.com writes:
> ftpperso.free.fr
Heigh-Ho Jeremy,
My ISP complains about that URL. Is there a possibility that we may need
some
more intelligence? After we get there, are passwords, etc. required?
Cheers/Don Carron
=========================================================================
From: Dan Marshall <mdaniel7@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:00:43 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
Well, I am not at all sure I qualify as a great mind, as specified in
the initial post, but here is my take on this subject, for what it is
worth.
I would assume that if you are technically qualified and have a
sufficient amount of test equipment to viably take on such a project,
you perhaps would just have had a go at it, rather than having initiated
this thread. I don't recall your background, and formal training, so
this is no more than a supposition. Anyway, if you have the technical
background and the proper test equipment, then you can, no doubt,
successfully undertake some of the suggestions that have been made by
others. If not, then you would probably be waaaaay better off to stick
with a proven design, such as the classic Williamson design as
presented, say, in the 1955 Acrosound brochure, or perhaps the one using
the Stancor A-8072 output transformer. (As an aside, I have one one of
these opts and would like to pair it up with a mate). Anyway, these
designs have been well thought out and proven over the years, so would
be a safe bet for one with limited test equipment and/or experience.
Actually, those designs are little different than, say, a Heath W4-M, or
similar amplifier, which you could triode strap and perhaps change the
output tubes a lot easier than building from scratch. I have one of
those amps, an AA-171, which is the later black-chassis version of the
W4-M. Though it sounds pretty good, it is nothing to write home about,
so to make something on the cheap that knocks your socks off, isn't
terribly likely. First, you need good output iron, which, generally
speaking, is not easily scrounged, on the cheap. The best and most
economical source for such is from vintage amps, so why not just modify
a pair of vintage amps and be done with it. If you want something on
the cheap, you could use 6BG6s, which are the same as 807s, but fit an
octal socket and you can get them for about a buck each.
Also, my experience is that triode-strapped pentodes sound much more
analytical than do DHTs. I happen to like the more lush sound of DHTs,
so, if I were undertaking such a project, I would use something like
6B4Gs, or 6A3s, or perhaps 45s, or maybe 46s, all of which I have a
goodly supply, yet I have not done so. Also, I would use a good
interstage transformer to drive the output stage. Which, for the lack
of, is one of the main reasons I have yet to undertake such a project.
Using this topology you likely could come up with an amp that rises
above the ordinary. It's called the Amity. Otherwise, it likely will
be just another me-too amp. I think someone already suggested this
approach. So, I would make a decision to go the DHT/IT route, or
probably wouldn't undertake it at all.
Another route to consider, if you want something a cut above the
ordinary, yet relatively inexpensive, would be to upgrade a good 6BQ5
amp then invest in some Telefunken 6BQ5s, or better yet, some Tungsol
6094s, which reportedly beat even the Telefunkens. I just bought a pair
of 6094s for SE amps, so will soon verify whether this is a valid
claim. I find that in low-power, low-cost, non-DHT amplifiers, either
SE or PP, the 6BQ5 family is the one to beat, not 807s, 6BG6s, or other
6L6 varients.
Dan Marshall
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Dicker <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
To: Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 11:18 AM
Subject: [JN] 807 Project
> Hi all.....hope your summer's been good.
>
> Well, Labor day is on the horizon, which means that summer is fast
approaching its end....which means thoughts turn to THE NEXT PROJECT!!!!
:-)
>
> What's been running through my mind during the hot days on the beach
(well, not really) has been triode connected 807's . I want the next
project to be good sounding but cheap and cheerful....not the major
investment or difficulty involved in my last P/P 845 project.
>
This is a clarion call to all the great Joenet brains to pipe up on
possible topologies and operating points.......previous experience with
the 807 not required.
>
> Need to decide the basics: I think I'm settled on P/P operation but not on the phase splitter or
driver stages, although for simplicity's sake, I more easily lean to some simple octals for those t
asks.......
>
> Most want to hear from the great (!) minds....this includes, (but is not limited to) Bob Daniela
k , Dave Slagle, Steve Berger, Paul Joppa,
Grover Gardner, Roscoe Primrose, Steve Bench.........and on and on the
list goes.......
>
> Together, let's come up with a neat and easy, great sounding schematic and maybe it'll be my ticke
t into next year's NYNoise show.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dan
>
=========================================================================
From: "John Reekie" <johnr@eecs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:10:48 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
Hello all, has anyone mentioned the 807 amp in the
Fi Primer? Might be of interest:
http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/saints/668/primer/
JohnR
=========================================================================
From: ToobWiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:25:43 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
In a message dated 08/21/2001 2:<BR49:<BR41 PM
Eastern Daylight , JEpstein@ndbcap.com writes:
> ftpperso.free.fr
Heigh-Ho Jeremy,
My ISP complains about that URL. Is there a possibility that we may need some
more intelligence? After we get there, are passwords, etc. required?
Cheers/Don Carron
=========================================================================
From: "John" <str8aro@purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:41:06 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
Try the http access:
http://joelist.free.fr/
John
>
>Heigh-Ho Jeremy,
>
>My ISP complains about that URL. Is there a possibility that we may need
some
>more intelligence? After we get there, are passwords, etc. required?
>
>Cheers/Don Carron
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:50:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
Steve,
I'm loving this idea.....and I'm going to try and block it out over the next
few days.....I'll contact you when I'm incapable of finishing it.....(that
won't be long!).
I've got a hankering to try the 6N1P.............isn't that like a Russian
6922/6DJ8 ??
Thanks again,
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <SBench@aol.com>
To: <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
> In a message dated 01-08-20 17:43:08 EDT, you write:
>
> > Thanks, this is quite like what I have in mind.....except I don't think
I
> > want iron to do the duty of phase splitting on this particular
> > project.......
> >
> > Would you or any one else like to venture a phase splitter?? I know
this
> is
> > an open-ended question.....but still, give it a go, with the proviso
that a
> > standard split-load phase splitter (might) not be my first
choice.....or
> > should it be??
> >
> For a glass based phase inverter, at the signal levels you're looking at,
> I'd think about suggesting (is that enough indirection?) a split load (so
> called "Concertina" by some) phase inverter as Paul mentioned.
> Biggest thing I don't like about 'em is their behaviour when you start to
> draw grid current at their load. Unfortunately, buffering simply moves
this
> problem back one stage. Sooooooooo, how about this for a compromise...
> 2C51 or 6N1P input direct coupled to the second section acting as
> split load phase inverter. This coupled to a 6SN7 or 5687 cathode
follower.
> Direct couple the cathode outputs to the grids of 807, and bias the input
of
> the
> CF to the proper bias point. You'll need a -100V supply. The only needed
> capacitor feeds between the phase inverter outputs and the cathode
follower
> inputs. For a -24V bias you'll need 26V peak driving the grids of the CF,
or
> about 28 volts peak drive into the phase splitter. Behind a 6N1P or 2C51,
this
> would require about 1Vpeak (sensitivity of 0.7VRMS).
>
> Best Regards,
> Steve
=========================================================================
From: "Jim Charron" <jimpcn@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:58:40 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
Hi Dan;
Really enjoyed your input!
Very informative and it so happens, I totally agree with your assesment
about tube amplifiers and tubes.
Helpful in directing my next project.
Well done, and thanks.
Regards Jim Charron
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Marshall" <mdaniel7@uswest.net>
To: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
Cc: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>; "Joenet"
<sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
> I would assume that if you are technically qualified and have a
> sufficient amount of test equipment to viably take on such a project,
> you perhaps would just have had a go at it, rather than having initiated
> this thread. I don't recall your background, and formal training, so
> this is no more than a supposition. Anyway, if you have the technical
> background and the proper test equipment, then you can, no doubt,
> successfully undertake some of the suggestions that have been made by
> others. If not, then you would probably be waaaaay better off to stick
> with a proven design, such as the classic Williamson design as
> presented, say, in the 1955 Acrosound brochure, or perhaps the one using
> the Stancor A-8072 output transformer. (As an aside, I have one one of
> these opts and would like to pair it up with a mate). Anyway, these
> designs have been well thought out and proven over the years, so would
> be a safe bet for one with limited test equipment and/or experience.
>
> Actually, those designs are little different than, say, a Heath W4-M, or
> similar amplifier, which you could triode strap and perhaps change the
> output tubes a lot easier than building from scratch. I have one of
> those amps, an AA-171, which is the later black-chassis version of the
> W4-M. Though it sounds pretty good, it is nothing to write home about,
> so to make something on the cheap that knocks your socks off, isn't
> terribly likely. First, you need good output iron, which, generally
> speaking, is not easily scrounged, on the cheap. The best and most
> economical source for such is from vintage amps, so why not just modify
> a pair of vintage amps and be done with it. If you want something on
> the cheap, you could use 6BG6s, which are the same as 807s, but fit an
> octal socket and you can get them for about a buck each.
>
> Also, my experience is that triode-strapped pentodes sound much more
> analytical than do DHTs. I happen to like the more lush sound of DHTs,
> so, if I were undertaking such a project, I would use something like
> 6B4Gs, or 6A3s, or perhaps 45s, or maybe 46s, all of which I have a
> goodly supply, yet I have not done so. Also, I would use a good
> interstage transformer to drive the output stage. Which, for the lack
> of, is one of the main reasons I have yet to undertake such a project.
> Using this topology you likely could come up with an amp that rises
> above the ordinary. It's called the Amity. Otherwise, it likely will
> be just another me-too amp. I think someone already suggested this
> approach. So, I would make a decision to go the DHT/IT route, or
> probably wouldn't undertake it at all.
>
> Another route to consider, if you want something a cut above the
> ordinary, yet relatively inexpensive, would be to upgrade a good 6BQ5
> amp then invest in some Telefunken 6BQ5s, or better yet, some Tungsol
> 6094s, which reportedly beat even the Telefunkens. I just bought a pair
> of 6094s for SE amps, so will soon verify whether this is a valid
> claim. I find that in low-power, low-cost, non-DHT amplifiers, either
> SE or PP, the 6BQ5 family is the one to beat, not 807s, 6BG6s, or other
> 6L6 varients.
>
> Dan Marshall
>
=========================================================================
From: "Emile Sprenger" <tubes@euronet.nl>
Subject: RE: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:21:17 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n952
Try logging in with joelist as userid & as password.
For example: ftp://joelist:joelist@ftpperso.free.fr/
Regards,
Emile
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]Namens
> ToobWiz@aol.com
> Verzonden: woensdag 22 augustus 2001 0:26
> Aan: JEpstein@ndbcap.com; sound@lists.io.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [JN] 807 Project
>
>
> In a message dated 08/21/2001 2:<BR49:<BR41 PM
> Eastern Daylight , JEpstein@ndbcap.com writes:
>
> > ftpperso.free.fr
>
> Heigh-Ho Jeremy,
>
> My ISP complains about that URL. Is there a possibility that we
> may need some
> more intelligence? After we get there, are passwords, etc. required?
>
> Cheers/Don Carron
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:29:33 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n953
Daniel Dicker wrote:
> I've got a hankering to try the 6N1P.............isn't that like a Russian
> 6922/6DJ8 ??
>
Some say it is, but I doubt it. I once A-B'd an e88cc and a 6n1p on a tube
tracer and I can assure you that the curves are pretty different... The curves
of the 6dj8/e88cc/6922 are much steeper than the 6n1p's. The curves of the 6n1p
look very linear, but definitely not like a drop-in replacement for the e88cc.
(I can supply a 22 k jpeg with the screenshots of the two curves.)
I did try the 6n1p as a drop in replacement in a SRPP driver stage designed for
a e88cc. It sounded less punchy, but very detailed and clean (and yes, the
heater supply was up to the higher current!) than with e88cc's.
©
=========================================================================
From: "John Reekie" <johnr@eecs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:00:09 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n953
Hey Dan, what about making Allen Wright's PP-1 with 807s?
http://www.vacuumstate.com/images/PP-1C_a.gif
JohnR
> Somehow though, even if the result might be inferior to these past proven
> designs, there's SOMETHING about trying something a little bit
> different......and in that regard, I feel like you're raining a bit on the
> parade......not that you're wrong, of course, you're absolutely
> right........................... :-)
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:34:47 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n953
Dan Marshall wrote:
If not, then you would probably be waaaaay better off to stick
with a proven design, such as the classic Williamson design as
presented, say, in the 1955 Acrosound brochure, or perhaps the one using
the Stancor A-8072 output transformer. (As an aside, I have one one of
these opts and would like to pair it up with a mate). Anyway, these
designs have been well thought out and proven over the years, so would
be a safe bet for one with limited test equipment and/or experience.
<end snip>
Dan,
You're right, you're right....I know you're right.
There is absolutely no legitimate reason to try and reinvent the wheel here,
the tube is very well known...... I should prolly use the 1947 Williamson
amp outlined in this thread by others, or perhaps do the Ultra-Linear
schematic that is a proven JC Morrison favorite, or the 7N7 front end amp
also from the late 40's. God knows its all been done before.
Somehow though, even if the result might be inferior to these past proven
designs, there's SOMETHING about trying something a little bit
different......and in that regard, I feel like you're raining a bit on the
parade......not that you're wrong, of course, you're absolutely
right........................... :-)
Best,
Dan
=========================================================================
From: Dan Marshall <mdaniel7@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:34:47 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n953
Hi Daniel,
Sorry, I didn't mean to rain on your parade. Rather, hoped to help you
in coming up with something a cut above typical PP amplifiers without a
lot of unnecessary wheel spinning. Unless well instrumented, or blessed
(or is it cursed) with golden ears, one tends to convince himself that
his own concoctions sound extraordinarily good, whether they do or not.
This is just human nature and due to the variability of the ear. How
many times has Marcy achieved audio Nirvana with a simple tweak? I lost
count long ago. I guess there are an unlimited number of Nirvanas.
But then, if a person's own creation sounds outstanding to him, then
that is all that really matters. Generally, I will listen to something
and make an instant determination as to whether it sounds good, or bad,
better, or worse, while at other times something I think sounds good at
first wears off after listening to it for a while, or when comparing it
to something better.
I am gradually coming to the conclusion that this entire audio hobby is
substantially a waste of time, something for folks who have nothing
better to do to fill the void in their lives. I know I have wasted a
lot of time on it that could have been spent on far more profitable
endeavors. But then, perhaps that's just me. I am starting to
reevaluate my life direction and what I want to do with the rest of it.
But that's another story, with substantial mitigating factors. I do see
a much brighter and far more interesting future ahead, FWIW. Sorry bout
the digression.
Dan Marshall
Daniel Dicker wrote:
>
> Dan Marshall wrote:
>
> If not, then you would probably be waaaaay better off to stick
> with a proven design, such as the classic Williamson design as
> presented, say, in the 1955 Acrosound brochure, or perhaps the one using
> the Stancor A-8072 output transformer. (As an aside, I have one one of
> these opts and would like to pair it up with a mate). Anyway, these
> designs have been well thought out and proven over the years, so would
> be a safe bet for one with limited test equipment and/or experience.
>
> <end snip>
>
> Dan,
>
> You're right, you're right....I know you're right.
>
> There is absolutely no legitimate reason to try and reinvent the wheel here,
> the tube is very well known...... I should prolly use the 1947 Williamson
> amp outlined in this thread by others, or perhaps do the Ultra-Linear
> schematic that is a proven JC Morrison favorite, or the 7N7 front end amp
> also from the late 40's. God knows its all been done before.
>
> Somehow though, even if the result might be inferior to these past proven
> designs, there's SOMETHING about trying something a little bit
> different......and in that regard, I feel like you're raining a bit on the
> parade......not that you're wrong, of course, you're absolutely
> right........................... :-)
>
> Best,
>
> Dan
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:35:19 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n953
Dan
If you look at it from a philosophical or midlife-crisis point of view, the whole
life can seem to be a waste of time. It only depends on *how* you waste it. I
think there are worse ways than tinkering with tubes and transformers - as long
as you don't think that tubes and transformers (or music or whatever) are the
meaning of life.
Sometimes I think my job is a much bigger waste of time and I would dearly love
to fill that void I'd experience w/o job with other things. Like tinkering with
tubes and iron. Or reading a book. Or meeting friends. Or thundering thru the
Swiss Alps on a 96 cui V2. Or making love, not war. Or ... (fill out your own
list!)
And sometimes we just have to make a mistake that zillion of others have made too
- - be it just for the experience that Williamson sucks or whatever.
I for instance hope you won't change your life too drastically and keep raining
in our parades and keep posting your always thorough, highly informing bits &
peaces!
© (believing there is no audio nirvana except you have reached it without
noticing - audio is not a drug, just a way to spoil your ears rotten.)
Dan Marshall wrote:
> I am gradually coming to the conclusion that this entire audio hobby is
> substantially a waste of time, something for folks who have nothing
> better to do to fill the void in their lives. I know I have wasted a
> lot of time on it that could have been spent on far more profitable
> endeavors. But then, perhaps that's just me. I am starting to
> reevaluate my life direction and what I want to do with the rest of it.
> But that's another story, with substantial mitigating factors. I do see
> a much brighter and far more interesting future ahead, FWIW. Sorry bout
> the digression.
=========================================================================
From: jon <jons@megsinet.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: 807 Project
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:48:19 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n954
>This is just human nature and due to the variability of the ear. How
>many times has Marcy achieved audio Nirvana with a simple tweak? I lost
>count long ago. I guess there are an unlimited number of Nirvanas.
I think I can help clear this up--it's a yin-yang-thing. See,
everything I ever build sucks, so universal harmony dictates that others
be oppositely afflicted.
Jon Staebler
PS Dan, I am sincerely glad that health-related things are on the
upswing.
=========================================================================
From: Dan Marshall <mdaniel7@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project, Dan's coming epiphany :-)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:01:33 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n953
ToobWiz@aol.com wrote:
>
> Funny, Dan,
>
> I detected a basis of nihilism in your original post on the topic.
> I wondered why and now you've told us. Thanks; your replies are
> usually more "inspiring".
<snip>
> Cheers/Don Carron
Hi Don,
I guess that depends on one's perspective, i.e., what inspires one; I
for one, am very inspired, just not so much with audio as in the past.
My circumstances are probably considerably different than the norm
though. Without going into details, a confluence of events is in the
process of unfolding that will significantly alter my interests,
hobbies, pursuits, lifestyle, etc., all for the better, I might add,
which is, no doubt, responsible for some introspection and reevaluation
of life's direction.
Anyway, I suspect that very soon this audio sickness will be replaced
with other more interesting, rewarding and exciting pursuits. I
probably should have just kept my mouth shut, rather than thinking out
loud, so to speak. I didn't mean to be a downer on anyone's hobby, or
interests, its just that I don't see it occupying as important a part in
my life in the future. I thought I qualified this point in the previous
reply, when I said, that it's probably just me.
As a bonus, I have been undergoing some rather exotic and far out
medical testing and treatments that seems to be considerably mitigating
the symptoms of Post-polio syndrome with which I have been afflicted for
the past seven, or so, years. Plus, participating in an anti-aging,
hormone replacement, program has put a considerable amount of vim and
vigor back in my life. So, things are looking up. Onward and upward, I
say. Enjoy your hobby, I know I will enjoy mine, whatever it turns out
to be, though I will probably be messing with audio for a while, which
will no doubt, include unloading a bunch of stuff I have collected.
Dan M
=========================================================================
From: ToobWiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project, Dan's coming epiphany :-)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:11:04 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n953
Funny, Dan,
I detected a basis of nihilism in your original post on the topic. I wondered
why and now you've told us. Thanks; your replies are usually more "inspiring".
I would have suggested a different design for someone who wanted better than
run of the mill... The Eico HF-89, with the 807s (or any other 6L6 sort)
wired triode. We all have our favorites, but this one is so clean and
dynamic, given good OPT iron. Plus, it is economical of tubes. Another plus,
it resp0nds well to tweaking, revealing clearly the differences between types
of caps and resistors.
Just another idea to confuse the fellow (whose name I forget right now.
Cheers/Don Carron
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project, Dan's coming epiphany :-)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:21:25 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n953
Don,
the "confused" fellow is me, also Dan....
Please tell me where to find the EICO schematic and I will place it on my
list of possiblilities for this project.....
Please also refer to my reply to Dan Marshall........soon to be posted
........ :-)
Best,
Dan Dicker
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <ToobWiz@aol.com>
To: <mdaniel7@uswest.net>; <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project, Dan's coming epiphany :-)
> Funny, Dan,
>
> I detected a basis of nihilism in your original post on the topic. I
wondered
> why and now you've told us. Thanks; your replies are usually more
"inspiring".
>
> I would have suggested a different design for someone who wanted better
than
> run of the mill... The Eico HF-89, with the 807s (or any other 6L6 sort)
> wired triode. We all have our favorites, but this one is so clean and
> dynamic, given good OPT iron. Plus, it is economical of tubes. Another
plus,
> it resp0nds well to tweaking, revealing clearly the differences between
types
> of caps and resistors.
>
> Just another idea to confuse the fellow (whose name I forget right now.
>
> Cheers/Don Carron
>
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project, Dan's coming epiphany :-)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:38:30 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n954
Dan,
I understand what you're saying and I support you. I have been to a place
not very long ago where I felt that my hobbies were not 'worthy' of the time
or energy spent in them, that there was more to life and what was needed was
the fresh air of 'important' goals.............
Listen Dan, I'm not about tube audio and neither are you....we just manage
to meet together in this fine *chat room* for a time to discuss a common
passion for each of us here.......As for me, I'm a very successful energy
trader, own my own company, have a private pilots license, love to
motorcycle, (own a BMW), have a masters rating at Chess, still swim in
masters competitions, read modern literature incessantly....all this in
addition to the regular marriage, 2 kids and mortgage......the full
catastrophe (apologies to Zorba).
But until recently, (maybe 3 years now), I knew NOTHING about DIY audio,
until inspired by a close friend but PARTICULARILY by the inspired words of
this list...........
You have something that I so greatly desire........the knowledge and
confidence to use that knowledge when it comes to tube audio.........and to
*pee* on that talent, even while waiting for something more 'important' to
happen is a great mistake. Everything you do and learn and aspire to makes
you a better person and makes your life richer........and as way to involve
oneself in their spare time, one could do SIGNIFICANTLY worse than building
tube amplifiers.
I wish you all the best in your endeavors, you sound like a nice man.
Whereever your pursuits lead you, don't give up entirely on the
DIY..........It really is a great thing to do.
PS my home brew stuff really DOES sound great <HA!>
Best,
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Marshall" <mdaniel7@uswest.net>
To: <ToobWiz@aol.com>
Cc: <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>; <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 Project, Dan's coming epiphany :-)
> ToobWiz@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Funny, Dan,
> >
> > I detected a basis of nihilism in your original post on the topic.
> > I wondered why and now you've told us. Thanks; your replies are
> > usually more "inspiring".
> <snip>
> > Cheers/Don Carron
>
> Hi Don,
>
> I guess that depends on one's perspective, i.e., what inspires one; I
> for one, am very inspired, just not so much with audio as in the past.
> My circumstances are probably considerably different than the norm
> though. Without going into details, a confluence of events is in the
> process of unfolding that will significantly alter my interests,
> hobbies, pursuits, lifestyle, etc., all for the better, I might add,
> which is, no doubt, responsible for some introspection and reevaluation
> of life's direction.
>
> Anyway, I suspect that very soon this audio sickness will be replaced
> with other more interesting, rewarding and exciting pursuits. I
> probably should have just kept my mouth shut, rather than thinking out
> loud, so to speak. I didn't mean to be a downer on anyone's hobby, or
> interests, its just that I don't see it occupying as important a part in
> my life in the future. I thought I qualified this point in the previous
> reply, when I said, that it's probably just me.
>
> As a bonus, I have been undergoing some rather exotic and far out
> medical testing and treatments that seems to be considerably mitigating
> the symptoms of Post-polio syndrome with which I have been afflicted for
> the past seven, or so, years. Plus, participating in an anti-aging,
> hormone replacement, program has put a considerable amount of vim and
> vigor back in my life. So, things are looking up. Onward and upward, I
> say. Enjoy your hobby, I know I will enjoy mine, whatever it turns out
> to be, though I will probably be messing with audio for a while, which
> will no doubt, include unloading a bunch of stuff I have collected.
>
> Dan M
>
=========================================================================
From: Andrew Brandon <ajbrandon@yahoo.com>
Subject: [JN] 807SE Amp
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 13:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n884
For those of you who asked, I posted the Gordon Rankin
807SE article on the new site under schematics. Better
late than never : )
Andrew
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: Andrew Brandon <ajbrandon@yahoo.com>
Subject: [JN] 807 SE Amp
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:43:55 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n888
for Timo et all.
image_1 through 6 are Gordons SE807 project article .
They will not be up for very long, maybe a week so get
it soon.
Have fun...
Andrew
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: Andrew Brandon <ajbrandon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 SE Amp
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 06:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n890
http://homepage.mac.com/abrandon1
Sorry, thats what happens when I study too much
instead of relaxing with music.. :)
- --- Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de> wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> excuse me, where are the files? URL?
> ;)
> Timo
>
> > for Timo et all.
> > image_1 through 6 are Gordons SE807 project
> article .
> > They will not be up for very long, maybe a week so
> get
> > it soon.
> > Have fun...
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great
> prices
> > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
> --
> / /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
> / /<-. Electronics Engineering Student
> __/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
> ' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 SE from SP
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:26:36 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n881
>I've read a little about the 807 SE amp that was published in Sound
>Practices and developed by Gordon Rankin at various places on the net.
>I'll get some 807s, so i would love to have a look at that amp. It
>certainly has a good reputation!
>
>Is the circuit somewhere on the web?
>If that's not the case, would some kind soul email it to me?
>Or maybe it could be put on our new FTP site.
Me too. I have some 807s, (including equivalents -- 1626(?) -- different
filament, and some RK-37s (?))
dave
__________________
Transmission Line Speaker Page
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/
new: Martin King's Mass Loaded TQWT
- -- modeled with and tested against his MathCad model
=========================================================================
From: Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de>
Subject: [JN] 807 SE from SP
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 23:07:09 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n881
Hello All,
I've read a little about the 807 SE amp that was published in Sound
Practices and developed by Gordon Rankin at various places on the net.
I'll get some 807s, so i would love to have a look at that amp. It
certainly has a good reputation!
Is the circuit somewhere on the web?
If that's not the case, would some kind soul email it to me?
Or maybe it could be put on our new FTP site.
Thank you,
Timo
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. Electronics Engineering Student
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: "Mai, Jeff" <Jeff.Mai@sunmed.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] 807 SE from SP
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 16:26:11 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n882
While this looks like an interesting amp, it isn't the Rankin 807. That one
used a 6072 as input and VR tube regulation on the screen along with local
feedback on the output tube (partially bypassed cathode R.)
On Wednesday, May 09, 2001 3:51 PM, Remco Stoutjesdijk
[SMTP:remco@ultranalog.com] wrote:
> I believe this may be the circuit you're looking for:
>
> http://members.home.nl/triode.dick/tekeningen/se807.gif
>
> (hmmm, I may be needing two more 807s, Rick ;)
>
>
> Remco
> --
> http://www.ultranalog.com
=========================================================================
From: Andrew Brandon <ajbrandon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 SE from SP
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:36:02 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n882
I think I have that issue of SP. Let me know if you
have got a copy yet and if not I will try to scan /
email it to you but it will not be until tomorrow p.m.
Andrew
- --- David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com> wrote:
> >I've read a little about the 807 SE amp that was
> published in Sound
> >Practices and developed by Gordon Rankin at various
> places on the net.
> >I'll get some 807s, so i would love to have a look
> at that amp. It
> >certainly has a good reputation!
> >
> >Is the circuit somewhere on the web?
> >If that's not the case, would some kind soul email
> it to me?
> >Or maybe it could be put on our new FTP site.
>
> Me too. I have some 807s, (including equivalents --
> 1626(?) -- different
> filament, and some RK-37s (?))
>
> dave
>
> __________________
>
> Transmission Line Speaker Page
>
> http://www.t-linespeakers.org/
>
> new: Martin King's Mass Loaded TQWT
> -- modeled with and tested against his MathCad model
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: "Gary E. Kaufman" <gkaufman@bu.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] 807 SE from SP
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 20:45:17 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n882
I have the schematic scanned into a .pdf file, around 400kb. I'm happy to
mail it to anyone who'd like a copy. If someone can send me the ftp
location I'll upload it as well!
- Gary
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
Behalf Of Timo Christ
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 5:07 PM
To: joe net
Subject: [JN] 807 SE from SP
Hello All,
I've read a little about the 807 SE amp that was published in Sound
Practices and developed by Gordon Rankin at various places on the net.
I'll get some 807s, so i would love to have a look at that amp. It
certainly has a good reputation!
Is the circuit somewhere on the web?
If that's not the case, would some kind soul email it to me?
Or maybe it could be put on our new FTP site.
Thank you,
Timo
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. Electronics Engineering Student
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: Remco Stoutjesdijk <remco@ultranalog.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 807 SE from SP
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 23:51:24 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n882
I believe this may be the circuit you're looking for:
http://members.home.nl/triode.dick/tekeningen/se807.gif
(hmmm, I may be needing two more 807s, Rick ;)
Remco
- --
http://www.ultranalog.com
=========================================================================
From: "Mai, Jeff" <Jeff.Mai@sunmed.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] 807 SE from SP
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:58:54 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n882
Whoops! It seems I should qualify my statement. It isn't the Rankin 807
published in SP#2.
Sorry Gordon!
On Thursday, May 10, 2001 9:54 AM, J. Gordon Rankin [SMTP:waudio@cinti.net]
wrote:
> >While this looks like an interesting amp, it isn't the Rankin 807. That
one
> >used a 6072 as input and VR tube regulation on the screen along with
local
> >feedback on the output tube (partially bypassed cathode R.)
>
> Jeff, it is my amplifier...
>
> Gordon
>
> =============> Wavelength Audio, ltd. <=============
> SET Vacuum Tube Amplifiers, Preamplifiers and DAC's.
> ====================================================
> mailto:waudio@cinti.net
> mailto:wavelength@fuse.net
> http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
> ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
>
>
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Re: 80 Hz horns find good home!
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:29:46 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n875
- --part1_fc.599b7b9.281d7f5a_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Bruce,
After a few days of tuning and listening I have the 80 Hz horns on the 4 ohm
taps of my ubt-2 OPT on the no R no C no Volume Control 6Y6G SE.
In series with the 15" Lambda triple magnet is a 1 mH choke and a 1 ohm 10W
resistor.
On the 8 ohm taps is the FE127 in series with a 33uF 630V Solen on the 300 Hz
tractrix.
Off the FE127 leads I have a 1 uF 630V tubular polyester cap and a 0.5 ohm
10W resistor in series the big Taiwan metal horn tweeter.
The sound is fine :)
I did have to short the input transformer primary CT to ground to get the
level down to extreme from the head-banging level :)
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
- --part1_fc.599b7b9.281d7f5a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Bruce,
<BR>
<BR>After a few days of tuning and listening I have the 80 Hz horns on the 4 ohm
<BR>taps of my ubt-2 OPT on the no R no C no Volume Control 6Y6G SE.
<BR>
<BR>In series with the 15" Lambda triple magnet is a 1 mH choke and a 1 ohm 10W
<BR>resistor.
<BR>
<BR>On the 8 ohm taps is the FE127 in series with a 33uF 630V Solen on the 300 Hz
<BR>tractrix.
<BR>
<BR>Off the FE127 leads I have a 1 uF 630V tubular polyester cap and a 0.5 ohm
<BR>10W resistor in series the big Taiwan metal horn tweeter.
<BR>
<BR>The sound is fine :)
<BR>
<BR>I did have to short the input transformer primary CT to ground to get the
<BR>level down to extreme from the head-banging level :)
<BR>
<BR>Happy Ears!
<BR>Al B^}
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_fc.599b7b9.281d7f5a_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: 80 Hz horns find good home!
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:03:19 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n875
Hi Al,
Do you use a subwoofer with your horns?
> The sound is fine :)
:)
the sound of my horn rig has improved notably after i removed the
forth-order active crossover from the basshorns. This was a suggestion
by Bert Doppenberg. I have gained much coherency with male voices (i
notice this in movies for the most part because i don't listen to many
male singers) and more slam in the upper part of the basshorn. It has no
crossover installed at all, just runs freely. Higher frequency output
can only be heard very close to the basshorn.
Midrange is crossed first order at 300 Hz line-level active, sprague
vit-Q driven by a 5687 WOT (low impedance drive of the RC). The present
tweeter requires a steep passive crossover (elliptical, at 3.4 kHz).
The mid + tweet stuff will change when i build the Unity-type horns...
But i'm very confident with the basshorn now and will put the finishing
touches on it. Fir side walls, stone loaded top and cork inside.
Have a nice day,
Timo
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. Electronics Engineering Student
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: 80 Hz horns find good home!
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:18:51 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n876
- --part1_4b.accbab4.281dd12b_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/29/01 8:05:22 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
carnivor@uni-bremen.de writes:
> Hi Al,
>
> Do you use a subwoofer with your horns?
>
>
Hi Timo,
Not yet...I am still breaking in the 80s :)
I got to hear the edgarhorns sub at Bruce's shop.
The double bass was right there in the room :)
Here, male voices are fine, and Judy Collins just sings...
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
- --part1_4b.accbab4.281dd12b_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 4/29/01 8:
05:22 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
<BR>carnivor@uni-bremen.de writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px
; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi Al,
<BR>
<BR>Do you use a subwoofer with your horns?
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Hi Timo,
<BR>
<BR>Not yet...I am still breaking in the 80s :)
<BR>
<BR>I got to hear the edgarhorns sub at Bruce's shop.
<BR>
<BR>The double bass was right there in the room :)
<BR>
<BR>Here, male voices are fine, and Judy Collins just sings...
<BR>
<BR>Happy Ears!
<BR>Al B^}
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_4b.accbab4.281dd12b_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: "MORTEN OG RIKKE BORUP HANSEN" <morten.rikke@get2net.dk>
Subject: [JN] 811A
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 01:58:25 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n152
Hey there
Has somebody a diagram from Shihidos book where he uses 811A with
interstage and positive grid voltages.
And has somebody expericens about this design
Morten, Denmark----------
> Fra: Cuno Snoeren <c.snoeren@tip.nl>
> Til: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Emne: Re: [JN] 300B heating question please... -Reply
> Dato: 27. maj 1999 00:00
>
> RALPH POWER wrote:
> > I immediately rewired it for humpots with GREAT hum reduction.
> >
> > I think the problem is finding a filament tranny with matched halves...
>
> No finding a 300B with symmetric cathode/heater is the problem!
> Just measure the voltage and you will see (2.7V and 2.3V or so).
>
> Greetings, Cuno
> http://www.triode.club.tip.nl
=========================================================================
From: Sridhar Gantimahapatruni <Ganti@acta.com>
Subject: [JN] 811A amp update -- again
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 15:11:20 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n319
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Sorry the previous email was sent without completing...
Finally finished the 811A shishido style monoblock and power both of them
up. First thing I noticed was the loss of bass. I did not know what was
happening becuase I did not have a scope and a signal generator.
Managed to lay my hands on a scope and a bought a signal generator
from Antique Electronic Supply.
The driver stage for 811A is 6W6 in triode mode going thru the big
Electra-Print Interstage.
I thought maybe the IT was getting saturated. It can handle 60mA of current.
Then I realised that the cathode by-pass for the 6W6 was 47micorF. THe
cathode resisitor value is 1.5K. I noticed that shishido uses atleast
200microF
cap. I had a nichicon 330microF cap handy, so I replaced the 47mF with the
330mF. The change was dramatic, full bodied sound with lots of bass.
by this time I got signal generator, and put it on the scope with John
Levrault's
help, and we saw that it could go down to till 20Hz before showing a
distortion.
All in all the project ended well. THe sound now is big, full, rich sound
with plenty
of bite.
We measured about 8Watts of o/p. If any of you guys are in the bay area,
drop
me an email.
The photograph of a single monoblock is at the one electron web site
http://www.one-electron.com/
thanks
ganti
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charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>811A amp update -- again</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sorry the previous email was sent =
without completing...</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Finally finished the 811A shishido =
style monoblock and power both of them</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">up. First thing I noticed was the =
loss of bass. I did not know what was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">happening becuase I did not have a =
scope and a signal generator.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Managed to lay my hands on a scope and =
a bought a signal generator</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">from Antique Electronic =
Supply.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The driver stage for 811A is 6W6 in =
triode mode going thru the big </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Electra-Print Interstage.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I thought maybe the IT was getting =
saturated. It can handle 60mA of current.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Then I realised that the cathode =
by-pass for the 6W6 was 47micorF. THe </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">cathode resisitor value is 1.5K. I =
noticed that shishido uses atleast 200microF</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">cap. I had a nichicon 330microF cap =
handy, so I replaced the 47mF with the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">330mF. The change was dramatic, full =
bodied sound with lots of bass. </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">by this time I got signal generator, =
and put it on the scope with John Levrault's</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">help, and we saw that it could go =
down to till 20Hz before showing a distortion.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">All in all the project ended well. THe =
sound now is big, full, rich sound with plenty</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">of bite.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">We measured about 8Watts of o/p. If =
any of you guys are in the bay area, drop </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">me an email.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The photograph of a single monoblock =
is at the one electron web site</FONT>
<BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.one-electron.com/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.one-electron.com/</A></FONT></U>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">thanks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">ganti</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:49:39 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n111
- ----------
> De : Torbjørn Lien <mdrivekl@online.no>
> Objet : Re: [JN] 845s and 211s, now 46s
> Date : samedi 3 avril 1999 17:59
> > >> Regarding the maximum voltage for G2, I'm
> > >> thinking something about the fact that
> > >> in triode mode this is not a concern...
> > >> Can someone else comfirm this?
I missed the previous posts on the subject but I can confirm.
As long as the screen voltage is allways lower than the plate voltage Vp
there is no problem with screen dissipation. This is the case with triode
wiring tetrods (or pentods)
Things are very different when you use a fixed potential for Vg2, or a
pentod or ultralinear wiring, then you have to take care to the max Vg2
(and also max power dissipation of the screen, if the screen is red, this
is not good at all)
> > >It is the G2 dissipation that has me wondering.
> > >I expect that the reduction in plate voltage
> > >from class B to A is caused by the G2 limit,
> > >but the data sheets never mention G2 dissipation.
Some of them do.
> Some years ago I tested out the 813 x-mitter tube,
> triodewired, to see if useable for SE-use. (IMO this
> cheap bomb should be a killer,-Filament a little
> hungry though....)
The 813 is the tube used in the excellent Altec 260A tube amplifier.Few
Japanese people are using a quite similar tube the 4B13 if I remember
correctly.
No problem of screen dissipation with the 813, its max screen dissipation
is very large (something like 20 watts I think)...
If someone possess curves for 813, I will be happy to have them (have only
a set of curves I derived by interpolation/extrapolation from various
mesurements found in publications...)
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] 813 in inverted triode -- perfect but impractical?
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:11:35 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n258
SBench@aol.com wrote:
>
SNIP
> Currently trying a bunch of new concepts in an SE OTL inverted mode amp.
> BTW, to answer a couple questions I saw in catching up on the digest,
> the best devices for inverted mode are lo mu high gm parts. 6AS7 works
> well, so does 7233 (which behaves almost exactly like 2 sections of 6AS7
> in parallel), 5687 (wonderfully linear and great sounding within its power
> limitations). 6B4 was disappointing. 5998 was just OK. 12B4 and SV83
> inverted didn't work very well. 813. Ah the 813. In inverted mode produces
> essentially absolutely perfect "plate curves": resistance, MU and gm all
> exactly constant. Too bad it's impractical. Dang!
Maybe this is obvious to others, but in what way is the 813 impractical
in this use? This inverted mode is fascinating.
It's great to have your contributions, Steve.
Rick
=========================================================================
From: SBench@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Re: 813 in inverted triode -- perfect but impractical?
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:26:38 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n259
>In a message dated 99-08-21 09:04:52 EDT, rfrancis@glasscity.net writes:
>> Ah the 813. In inverted mode produces
>> essentially absolutely perfect "plate curves": resistance, MU and gm all
>> exactly constant. Too bad it's impractical. Dang!
>Maybe this is obvious to others, but in what way is the 813 impractical
>in this use? This inverted mode is fascinating.
What's impractical is the high filament requirement (50 watts) in a device
with an effective plate dissipation of about 10 watts, with an effective
power gain of about 10 dB. However, it sounds quite nice to listen to.
Steve
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd" <bart.shepherd@ttmsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: 813 in inverted triode -- perfect but impractical?
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:16:28 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n259
From: <SBench@aol.com>
> What's impractical is the high filament requirement (50 watts) in a device
> with an effective plate dissipation of about 10 watts, with an effective
> power gain of about 10 dB. However, it sounds quite nice to listen to.
Why not winter amps? - bar radiators with a voice.
=========================================================================
From: SBench@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: 813 in inverted triode -- perfect but impractical?
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:36:13 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n260
In a message dated 99-08-22 04:18:41 EDT, bart.shepherd@ttmsolutions.com
writes:
>> What's impractical is the high filament requirement (50 watts) in a device
>> with an effective plate dissipation of about 10 watts, with an effective
>> power gain of about 10 dB. However, it sounds quite nice to listen to.
> Why not winter amps? - bar radiators with a voice.
That's a thought. BTW, the plate curves for these critters are up on my
web page.
- -Steve
=========================================================================
From: "P. de R. L." <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:32:43 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n533
Thanks to all who expressed an interest in my 813 amplifier.
I've just looked at the circuit and the notes thereon.
I must apologise for the poor quality - I can't work drawing packages!
In my notes I say that I will replace the 396A (= 2C51) with a 6350. Well
since then I have found a better driver valve: the E288CC. This has
slightly more gain (mu = 25) but much lower anode resitance (can go down to
1.8k) and only 1.5pf Ca-g. A better deal all round really, although I will
say that I like the sound of 6350 and may resort to it when I get around to
thinking about Mr Hedge and his cascodes.
Regards,
paul Leclercq
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 05:07:21 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n533
At 11:32 PM +0100 4/26/00, P. de R. L. wrote:
>Thanks to all who expressed an interest in my 813 amplifier.
>
>I've just looked at the circuit and the notes thereon.
>
>I must apologise for the poor quality - I can't work drawing packages!
I could read it well enough, thanks for passing it along. I have
some questions after looking it over. 1) Why the extra
triode-strapped-pentode input stage? 2) Why two differentials? The
first (396) is the actual phase splitter, right? Why then do you
need a current source on the 6BX7s? To assure accurate balance?
3) What is the cathode-circuit arrangement on the 396? That I
couldn't quite make out.
The E288CC is an excellent tube, I agree.
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:07:10 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n534
At 12:26 AM +0100 4/28/00, P. de R. L. wrote:
>Thank you Grover.
>
>1. As the note says, the A2134 is simply a line stage to provide sufficient
>sensitivity for tuner and RIAA pre-amp.
>2..I believe that two cascaded diff pairs is better than one; the use of a
>pentode sink facilitates direct coupling and therefore the removal of
>another time-constant.
Okay, thanks. I overlooked the direct-coupling element!
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: "P. de R. L." <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:26:04 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n534
Thank you Grover.
1. As the note says, the A2134 is simply a line stage to provide sufficient
sensitivity for tuner and RIAA pre-amp.
2..I believe that two cascaded diff pairs is better than one; the use of a
pentode sink facilitates direct coupling and therefore the removal of
another time-constant.
3. The cathode circuit on the 396a is simply a 2SK170 FET with grounded gate
and the source connected to ground via a trimmer.
As I said the 396A may well be removed and a proper -ve supply sink will
replace the FET.
However I cannot make up my mind; I have itchy feet and have another idea
altogether - to bankrupt myself probably!
regards,
Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
To: <Sound@io.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
> At 11:32 PM +0100 4/26/00, P. de R. L. wrote:
> >Thanks to all who expressed an interest in my 813 amplifier.
> >
> >I've just looked at the circuit and the notes thereon.
> >
> >I must apologise for the poor quality - I can't work drawing packages!
>
> I could read it well enough, thanks for passing it along. I have
> some questions after looking it over. 1) Why the extra
> triode-strapped-pentode input stage? 2) Why two differentials? The
> first (396) is the actual phase splitter, right? Why then do you
> need a current source on the 6BX7s? To assure accurate balance?
> 3) What is the cathode-circuit arrangement on the 396? That I
> couldn't quite make out.
>
> The E288CC is an excellent tube, I agree.
>
>
> -------
> Grover Gardner
> groverg@postoffice.att.net
>
=========================================================================
From: "Joseph Robertson" <joerbus@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:58:22 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n534
- ----- Original Message -----
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
To: P. de R. L. <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>; <Sound@io.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
> hi all
>
> >In my notes I say that I will replace the 396A (= 2C51) with a 6350.
>
> the 6350 is often used in Japanese designs. Anyone data avialable ?
>
Guido,
The 6350 is a medium-mu twin triode with seperate cathodes originally
designed for computer use and has a 9-pin base.
Typical operating points;Plate Voltage=150 ,Grid V=-minus 5 ,Amplification
factor,=18,Plate resistance=approx.3900 ohms
Transconductance=4600 Micromhos,Plate current=11 Milliamps.Heater
current=6.3 V.
This is info I'm taking from a book,I have no experience with the
tube(except in my ignorance throwing several that I had in my"junk"
tube collection in the trash several years ago.)
Joe Robertson
> >Well
> >since then I have found a better driver valve: the E288CC. This has
> >slightly more gain (mu = 25) but much lower anode resitance (can go down
to
> >1.8k) and only 1.5pf Ca-g.
>
> All above looks good but the linearity of the E288CC is not stunning, so I
> doubt whether it will be a "better" valve as a driver.
>
> regards,
> -
> Guido
>
> >A better deal all round really, although I will
> >say that I like the sound of 6350 and may resort to it when I get around
to
> >thinking about Mr Hedge and his cascodes.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >paul Leclercq
> >
> >
> >
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:32:22 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n534
hi all
>In my notes I say that I will replace the 396A (= 2C51) with a 6350.
the 6350 is often used in Japanese designs. Anyone data avialable ?
>Well
>since then I have found a better driver valve: the E288CC. This has
>slightly more gain (mu = 25) but much lower anode resitance (can go down to
>1.8k) and only 1.5pf Ca-g.
All above looks good but the linearity of the E288CC is not stunning, so I
doubt whether it will be a "better" valve as a driver.
regards,
- -
Guido
>A better deal all round really, although I will
>say that I like the sound of 6350 and may resort to it when I get around to
>thinking about Mr Hedge and his cascodes.
>
>Regards,
>
>paul Leclercq
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "P. de R. L." <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:16:12 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n535
Hello.
> the 6350 is often used in Japanese designs. Anyone data avialable
Data and curves for 6350 appear in the Vade-Mecum. Here are the
characteristics:
Va 150; Ia 11mA gm 4.6mA/V; Ra 3.9k; mu 18 Pa max 4W
>
> All above looks good but the linearity of the E288CC is not stunning, so I
> doubt whether it will be a "better" valve as a driver.
This is true; but depends where you operate it: it's pretty good around
100V Va.
regards,
Paul
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 13:47:06 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n535
hi all
Thanks. Just checked data. Given that it seems that it stems from the
family including E80CC (also computer triode), E182CC and E288CC.
The 6350 seems to perform better at lower voltages, while the 288 needs to
run at high currents, which sounds dull at lower currents.
Have fun
Guido
>Guido,
>
> The 6350 is a medium-mu twin triode with seperate cathodes originally
>designed for computer use and has a 9-pin base.
>Typical operating points;Plate Voltage=150 ,Grid V=-minus 5 ,Amplification
>factor,=18,Plate resistance=approx.3900 ohms
>Transconductance=4600 Micromhos,Plate current=11 Milliamps.Heater
>current=6.3 V.
>This is info I'm taking from a book,I have no experience with the
>tube(except in my ignorance throwing several that I had in my"junk"
>tube collection in the trash several years ago.)
>
>Joe Robertson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> >Well
>> >since then I have found a better driver valve: the E288CC. This has
>> >slightly more gain (mu = 25) but much lower anode resitance (can go down
>to
>> >1.8k) and only 1.5pf Ca-g.
>>
>> All above looks good but the linearity of the E288CC is not stunning, so I
>> doubt whether it will be a "better" valve as a driver.
>>
>> regards,
>> -
>> Guido
>>
>> >A better deal all round really, although I will
>> >say that I like the sound of 6350 and may resort to it when I get around
>to
>> >thinking about Mr Hedge and his cascodes.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >
>> >paul Leclercq
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "P. de R. L." <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:55:27 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n535
Hello.
Yes, I think a lot of these types were intended for computers.
Other types include 6463, 6900, 6386, and 6840.
I dare say that there were a few more too!
Regards,
Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
To: Joseph Robertson <joerbus@mindspring.com>; P. de R. L.
<triode@bow-tie.org.uk>; <Sound@io.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 p-p circuit
>
> hi all
>
> Thanks. Just checked data. Given that it seems that it stems from the
> family including E80CC (also computer triode), E182CC and E288CC.
>
> The 6350 seems to perform better at lower voltages, while the 288 needs to
> run at high currents, which sounds dull at lower currents.
>
> Have fun
>
> Guido
>
> >Guido,
> >
> > The 6350 is a medium-mu twin triode with seperate cathodes originally
> >designed for computer use and has a 9-pin base.
> >Typical operating points;Plate Voltage=150 ,Grid V=-minus 5
,Amplification
> >factor,=18,Plate resistance=approx.3900 ohms
> >Transconductance=4600 Micromhos,Plate current=11 Milliamps.Heater
> >current=6.3 V.
> >This is info I'm taking from a book,I have no experience with the
> >tube(except in my ignorance throwing several that I had in my"junk"
> >tube collection in the trash several years ago.)
> >
> >Joe Robertson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> >Well
> >> >since then I have found a better driver valve: the E288CC. This has
> >> >slightly more gain (mu = 25) but much lower anode resitance (can go
down
> >to
> >> >1.8k) and only 1.5pf Ca-g.
> >>
> >> All above looks good but the linearity of the E288CC is not stunning,
so I
> >> doubt whether it will be a "better" valve as a driver.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> -
> >> Guido
> >>
> >> >A better deal all round really, although I will
> >> >say that I like the sound of 6350 and may resort to it when I get
around
> >to
> >> >thinking about Mr Hedge and his cascodes.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >
> >> >paul Leclercq
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
From: Bjorn Kolbrek <bjornk@studpors.hit.no>
Subject: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:21:29 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n954
Hello!
I have been thinking a little about a SE amplifier using a triode conected
813. Does anybody have any experience on that?
BTW, any experience with triode connected 807?
Regards,
Bjørn
- -------------------------------------------------
__/\__
/ ____ \ Bjørn Kolbrek
| | || | |
| | || | | bjornk@studpors.hit.no
| | || | | http://www.geocities.com/la1zka
| | || | |
| |____| |
| /||||\ |
--------
| | | |
- -------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:06:12 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n954
Hello.
Yes, I have been running a triode-strapped 813 amplifier for some years.
813 makes an excellent triode with higher anode dissipation (125W) than 845
(75W) but with the same anode resistance and requiring much lower bias.
Typical operating conditions (I am using these) 840V, - 75V. Ia = 100mA.
PLese e-mail me if you would like further information.
Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bjorn Kolbrek <bjornk@studpors.hit.no>
To: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:21 AM
Subject: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Hello!
I have been thinking a little about a SE amplifier using a triode conected
813. Does anybody have any experience on that?
BTW, any experience with triode connected 807?
Regards,
Bjørn
- -------------------------------------------------
__/\__
/ ____ \ Bjørn Kolbrek
| | || | |
| | || | | bjornk@studpors.hit.no
| | || | | http://www.geocities.com/la1zka
| | || | |
| |____| |
| /||||\ |
--------
| | | |
- -------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: ToobWiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:09:06 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n955
Re 845 and 813 in SET,
If you had a 630vDC/100 mA PSU (per chassis), is there a good op point for
either of these? What sort of power output would they give?
Would either be a better choice at this anode voltage than the SV 811-3 or SV
572-3?
The latter have the advantage of using readily available OPTs. What would be
an appropriate OPT primary Z for the transmitting tubes at this voltage?
Cheers/Carron
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:20:18 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n955
pderl@btinternet.com wrote:
> I have triode curves for 813 (up to 1.4kV). If anyone wants them just e-mail me off list.
>
> 100W is the CCS (continuous commercial service) rating of 813. The
> ICAS (intermittant commercial and amateur service) rating is 125W. I
Typical class-A service would be similar to CSS.
>
> I am still sceptical about 100W 845s however: their anodes are still graphite and no bigger than
they were in 1933!
>
Well, RCA has been rating them that way since at least TT-3, which came
out in '38...
Peace
=========================================================================
From: pderl@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:00:29 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n955
I have triode curves for 813 (up to 1.4kV). If anyone wants them just e-mail me off list.
100W is the CCS (continuous commercial service) rating of 813. The ICAS (intermittant commercial and
amateur service) rating is 125W. I have some S/H 813s that were removed from RCA transmitters. Th
ese would have been run flat out at around 2kV. They are excellent and very old! In fact I wonder
if it is possible to wear out an 813! I would be perfectly happy (if I had the power supply) to run
813s at 125W, although I suppose that in reality, 100W would be fine. For the SE men, this would r
epresent 25W output I should guess. I think the best operating point would be 1kV @100mA.
I am still sceptical about 100W 845s however: their anodes are still graphite and no bigger than th
ey were in 1933!
Best wishes
Paul
>
> Hi Paul , Bjørn - all.
>
> > 813 makes an excellent triode with higher anode dissipation (125W) than 845
> > (75W) but with the same anode resistance and requiring much lower bias.
> > Typical operating conditions (I am using these) 840V, - 75V. Ia = 100mA.
>
> Yes , Paul is right. Though 845 is one of the most lineare triodes ever made , the 813 seems to be
even better.
> And it sure takes a LOT to make a better triode than the majestic 845... ( Respect ! )
>
> 813 in triode mode , provides an extremely uniform electron flow , and though this does not show u
p in the transfere
> characteristics , we do know by now , that it can be heard in the complex music signals.
>
> The first 845's could only dissipate 50 Watts .
> But as most members of the "50 Watt series" , soon they were able to do 75 Watts , due to better t
echnology.
> The "modern" ones runs 100 Watts.( And are specified as such )
> I have cooked some Cetron 845W's at 125 Watts , without any sign of problems.
>
> I would probably run the 813 at 100 Watt.
> Have you tried this , Paul ?
>
> - Kurt
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:50:07 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n955
Hi Paul , Bjørn - all.
> 813 makes an excellent triode with higher anode dissipation (125W) than 845
> (75W) but with the same anode resistance and requiring much lower bias.
> Typical operating conditions (I am using these) 840V, - 75V. Ia = 100mA.
Yes , Paul is right. Though 845 is one of the most lineare triodes ever made , the 813 seems to be e
ven better.
And it sure takes a LOT to make a better triode than the majestic 845... ( Respect ! )
813 in triode mode , provides an extremely uniform electron flow , and though this does not show up
in the transfere
characteristics , we do know by now , that it can be heard in the complex music signals.
The first 845's could only dissipate 50 Watts .
But as most members of the "50 Watt series" , soon they were able to do 75 Watts , due to better tec
hnology.
The "modern" ones runs 100 Watts.( And are specified as such )
I have cooked some Cetron 845W's at 125 Watts , without any sign of problems.
I would probably run the 813 at 100 Watt.
Have you tried this , Paul ?
- - Kurt
=========================================================================
From: pderl@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:17:54 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n955
My copy of the RCA data sheet states 75W. I think it is 1939, but I will hav to heck.
regards
Paul
> pderl@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I have triode curves for 813 (up to 1.4kV). If anyone wants them just e-mail me off list.
> >
> > 100W is the CCS (continuous commercial service) rating of 813. The
> > ICAS (intermittant commercial and amateur service) rating is 125W. I
>
> Typical class-A service would be similar to CSS.
>
> >
> > I am still sceptical about 100W 845s however: their anodes are still graphite and no bigger tha
n they were in 1933!
> >
>
> Well, RCA has been rating them that way since at least TT-3, which came
> out in '38...
>
> Peace
>
=========================================================================
From: pderl@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:22:49 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n955
Hello.
Given that 813 requires 50W just to light it (and 845 requires 37.5W) there would probably be little
point in using as low a voltage as this. Additionally, ra would be quite a bit higher since at 63
0V with 813, you would want to run about 150mA to gt it lower. The resultant voltage swing would no
t justify the effort I think. With 845 of course, you have the added problem of the very high bias
voltage that makes it a pain to drive.
As an example, an 813 at 840V and 100mA requires about -75V; an 845 would require double this approx
imately.
Paul
> Re 845 and 813 in SET,
>
> If you had a 630vDC/100 mA PSU (per chassis), is there a good op point for
> either of these? What sort of power output would they give?
>
> Would either be a better choice at this anode voltage than the SV 811-3 or SV
> 572-3?
>
> The latter have the advantage of using readily available OPTs. What would be
> an appropriate OPT primary Z for the transmitting tubes at this voltage?
>
> Cheers/Carron
=========================================================================
From: pderl@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:25:25 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n955
That was of course, "have to check"!
P.
> My copy of the RCA data sheet states 75W. I think it is 1939, but I will hav to heck.
>
> regards
>
> Paul
>
> > pderl@btinternet.com wrote:
> > > I have triode curves for 813 (up to 1.4kV). If anyone wants them just e-mail me off list.
> > >
> > > 100W is the CCS (continuous commercial service) rating of 813. The
> > > ICAS (intermittant commercial and amateur service) rating is 125W. I
> >
> > Typical class-A service would be similar to CSS.
> >
> > >
> > > I am still sceptical about 100W 845s however: their anodes are still graphite and no bigger t
han they were in 1933!
> > >
> >
> > Well, RCA has been rating them that way since at least TT-3, which came
> > out in '38...
> >
> > Peace
> >
>
=========================================================================
From: "Jon Lane" <jhlane.gely@home.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:08:58 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n956
Would anyone care to comment on the 803? These look quite
strong too.
Jon Lane
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com
> [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> Behalf Of Kurt Steffensen
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:50 AM
> To: Paul De Raymond Leclercq; sound@lists.io.com;
> Bjorn Kolbrek
> Subject: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
>
>
>
> Hi Paul , Bjørn - all.
>
> > 813 makes an excellent triode with higher anode
> dissipation (125W) than 845
> > (75W) but with the same anode resistance and
> requiring much lower bias.
> > Typical operating conditions (I am using these)
> 840V, - 75V. Ia = 100mA.
>
> Yes , Paul is right. Though 845 is one of the
> most lineare triodes ever made , the 813 seems to
> be even better.
> And it sure takes a LOT to make a better triode
> than the majestic 845... ( Respect ! )
>
> 813 in triode mode , provides an extremely
> uniform electron flow , and though this does not
> show up in the transfere
> characteristics , we do know by now , that it can
> be heard in the complex music signals.
>
> The first 845's could only dissipate 50 Watts .
> But as most members of the "50 Watt series" ,
> soon they were able to do 75 Watts , due to
> better technology.
> The "modern" ones runs 100 Watts.( And are
> specified as such )
> I have cooked some Cetron 845W's at 125 Watts ,
> without any sign of problems.
>
> I would probably run the 813 at 100 Watt.
> Have you tried this , Paul ?
>
> - Kurt
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:51:14 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n956
Bjorn Kolbrek wrote:
>
> >Hence the Tamura F-2013 , 10 kOhm is my favorite.
> >( Second comes their 7 kOhm , quite smaller one )
>
> Where can I buy these transformers, and what is the price?
You can order these from Koji at EIFL:
http://www.netspace.or.jp/~eifl/eifl/export/export2.htm
The price with shipping to US was around $850 for a pair. This is a
very beautiful transformer, with a warm natural tone. I found it a bit
soft in attack but that is in my low-efficiency system and really a
matter of taste. Otherwise an extremely musical piece of iron :-).
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Sv: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:02:45 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n956
Hi Carron and other Joegents.
> Re 845 and 813 in SET,
>
> If you had a 630vDC/100 mA PSU (per chassis), is there a good op point for
> either of these? What sort of power output would they give?
845's are rather sleepie at such "low" Voltage.
The quality of 845 improoves dramaticly with increasing Voltage.
1000-1200 Volts is best , loaded with 10-16 kOhm. ( The higher the better , but here is a trade of t
o regarding quality of iron..)
I do not have much experience with the 813 yet , but Paul does not recommend the 813's with 600 Volt
s either.
> Would either be a better choice at this anode voltage than the SV 811-3 or SV
> 572-3?
I do not have the datasheets of the 572's and 811's ( SV) close , but I seems to remember , that one
of these
, possible the 572's , works fine with about 600 Volts. ?
> The latter have the advantage of using readily available OPTs. What would be
> an appropriate OPT primary Z for the transmitting tubes at this voltage?
I run most "small" power tubes supplied with less than 500Volts into 5 kOhm.
( Nomatter what the datasheets tells me )
2A3 , 300B , VT 52 , R120 , RE 604 , 45 , PX 4 etc.
Tubes at more than 800 Volts , 211 , 845 , TM 100 , DA 60 , etc. I load with 7-10 kOhm.
Some of the high power triodes , I would prefere to load with 15-20 kOhm , but I have not been able
to get high quality OPT's ,
with such high transfer ratio.
Hence the Tamura F-2013 , 10 kOhm is my favorite.
( Second comes their 7 kOhm , quite smaller one )
High power tubes always demands a lot from the driver , PSU and OPT.
Hope this is of little use to you
- - Kurt
>
> Cheers/Carron
=========================================================================
From: Bjorn Kolbrek <bjornk@studpors.hit.no>
Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:08:39 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n956
>Hence the Tamura F-2013 , 10 kOhm is my favorite.
>( Second comes their 7 kOhm , quite smaller one )
Where can I buy these transformers, and what is the price?
>Hope this is of little use to you
:-)
This has actually been quite useful- thanks to you all.
Does anybody knows how the sound of 813 is compared to SV572 and 811?
Regards,
Bjørn
- -------------------------------------------------
__/\__
/ ____ \ Bjørn Kolbrek
| | || | |
| | || | | bjornk@studpors.hit.no
| | || | | http://www.geocities.com/la1zka
| | || | |
| |____| |
| /||||\ |
--------
| | | |
- -------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: pderl@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:06:50 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n956
Thanks Kurt for an interesting post
> I do not have much experience with the 813 yet , but Paul does not recommend the 813's with 600 Vo
lts either.
>
Quite so: One could make a 600V 813 amplifier, but I should say that the likely power output would
mean it would be hardly worth the effort. With a 4k load (I do not have the curves to hand so I am
working from memory!) and 100ma standing current, I suppose you might expect 12W or so single-ended.
... Might as well use a 300B.
Another idea would be to use a triode strapped 13E1. This can dissipate 95W as a triode and ra is e
xtremely low. There is a g2 limit of 300V which in my experience can be ignored with a little cauti
on. I have tested one at 500V and 200mA without it going bang. Anyway, with 500V and about 120ma s
tanding and a 3k load you would have a very nice 15W SE amplifier I would guess.
with its center-tapped heater (13 or 26V) only about 32W are consumed in lighting the thing up. Lik
e the 813 it would probably last forever.
I have prepared curves for this one too but I do not have them in an electronic form.
Paul
=========================================================================
From: "Mai, Jeff" <Jeff.Mai@sunmed.com>
Subject: RE: Sv: Sv: [JN] 813 SET amplifier - Tamura source
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:46:19 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n956
I got my Tamura F-7002 at Sun Audio:
SUN AUDIO CO.,LTD. / E-mail: sunaudio@big.or.jp
/
Mitsuru Uchida / http://www2.big.or.jp/~sunaudio/
Very fast and courteous service, though I'm sure doing business with Koji
would be a similar experience.
My F-7002 3.5K permalloy transformers are wonderful sounding. They
transformed the sound of my ET B-Glow 300B amplifier when I spliced them in
for the stock units. (They should have; they cost as much as the amp kit.)
On Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:51 AM, Grover Gardner
[SMTP:groverg@postoffice.att.net] wrote:
> Bjorn Kolbrek wrote:
> >
> > >Hence the Tamura F-2013 , 10 kOhm is my favorite.
> > >( Second comes their 7 kOhm , quite smaller one )
> >
> > Where can I buy these transformers, and what is the price?
>
> You can order these from Koji at EIFL:
>
> http://www.netspace.or.jp/~eifl/eifl/export/export2.htm
>
> The price with shipping to US was around $850 for a pair. This is a
> very beautiful transformer, with a warm natural tone. I found it a bit
> soft in attack but that is in my low-efficiency system and really a
> matter of taste. Otherwise an extremely musical piece of iron :-).
> --
> Grover Gardner
> groverg@postoffice.att.net
> Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut Quaschik <Hartmut.Quaschik@munich.netsurf.de>
Subject: [JN] 814 anybody knows that tube
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:40:38 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n204
Joes,
today a collegue offered me an old short wave radio station with 814 PP
driven
by maybe 807 weighting 70 kilos ...
is it possible to build an interesting SE power with that 814 tube,
similiar to
the 211 ?
thanks and regards,
Hartmut
=========================================================================
From: "Mayer, Thomas" <Thomas.Mayer@VLSI.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] 814 anybody knows that tube
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:48:04 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n204
Hartmut,
as far as I know the 814 is a directly heated pentode
with thoriated tungsten filaments.
They make nice display items. Not sure about their
suitability for audio.
Thomas
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hartmut Quaschik [mailto:Hartmut.Quaschik@munich.netsurf.de]
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 10:41 PM
> To: sound practice list
> Subject: [JN] 814 anybody knows that tube
>
>
> Joes,
>
> today a collegue offered me an old short wave radio station
> with 814 PP
> driven
> by maybe 807 weighting 70 kilos ...
>
> is it possible to build an interesting SE power with that 814 tube,
> similiar to
> the 211 ?
>
> thanks and regards,
> Hartmut
>
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] 814 anybody knows that tube
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:14:15 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n204
814 is a tetrode, no real triode though VTL used to build quasi triodes
with those
Guido
At 22:40 12/07/99 +0200, Hartmut Quaschik wrote:
>Joes,
>
>today a collegue offered me an old short wave radio station with 814 PP
>driven
>by maybe 807 weighting 70 kilos ...
>
>is it possible to build an interesting SE power with that 814 tube,
>similiar to
>the 211 ?
>
>thanks and regards,
>Hartmut
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Michael Joncic <hit-me@netway.at>
Subject: Re: [JN] 814 anybody knows that tube
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:02:50 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n204
At 22:40 12.07.99 +0200, you wrote:
>Joes,
>
>today a collegue offered me an old sh