Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 2
=========================================================================
From: "P de R. Leclercq" <triode@freenetname.co.uk>
Subject: [JN] L63/6J5s on ebay
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:36:35 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n878
A quick plug: I am selling three nicely-matched S/H Marconi L63s.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1140978538
Thanks,
PAul
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: [JN] lab power supplies
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:01:47 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n405
I think I'll go back to a local shop tomorrow or
tuesday and pick up a Hoefer PS 1200. It is
adjustable for voltage & current in increments
from 0 - 1200 VDC & 0 - 325 mA. It came from
a microbiology lab at Monsanto.
1. Does anyone know anything about this
particular power supply?
2. Does anyone want the 2nd one [yes there
are two].
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: "Leonard Scheepsma (ETM)" <Leonard.Scheepsma@etm.ericsson.se>
Subject: [JN] lab power supplies
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:20:48 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n406
Carter,
Sorry, I saw that "the system" has taken away my email address from my previous answer, so that's wh
y this re-send.
Leonard
Carter,
Could use such a device, but how large and heavy is this? (the costs for shipping from the US?? to E
urope will probably be stratospheric sais my intuition!)
And what's the price in the shop, and, most important, does it support an main voltace of 230 VAC 50
Hz instead of 120/60?
regards, Leonard
- -----Original Message-----
From: Carter Hendricks [mailto:carter@i1.net]
Sent: zondag 16 januari 2000 18:02
To: sound@lists.io.com
Subject: [JN] lab power supplies
I think I'll go back to a local shop tomorrow or
tuesday and pick up a Hoefer PS 1200. It is
adjustable for voltage & current in increments
from 0 - 1200 VDC & 0 - 325 mA. It came from
a microbiology lab at Monsanto.
1. Does anyone know anything about this
particular power supply?
2. Does anyone want the 2nd one [yes there
are two].
--Carter
Leonard Scheepsma
Business Development Manager
Ericsson Radio Systems AB
Torshamnsgatan 33 Kista
SE-164 80 STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Tel.+31-161-242711, Fax. +31-161-242663, GSM. +31-6-5474-6331
E-Mail: leonard.scheepsma@etm.ericsson.se
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] lab power supplies
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:59:05 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n406
Leonard
many US lab power supplies have mains transformers with two 117 V primaries in parallel that can be
hooked up in series for 234 V (like my Fluke 407). If the
mains transformer can't be wired for 230 V, just get a 230:115 V transformer (not expensive). Proble
m is that the mains transformers are designed for 60 Hz.
Connected to a 50 Hz power grid, they normally hummmm mechanically (like my Fluke 407...). (The magn
etic flux at 50 Hz is 20 151096gher than with 60 Hz. Most of
the 60 Hz transformers can't handle this.)
Christian
"Leonard Scheepsma (ETM)" wrote:
> Carter,
> Could use such a device, but how large and heavy is this? (the costs for shipping from the US?? to
Europe will probably be stratospheric sais my intuition!)
> And what's the price in the shop, and, most important, does it support an main voltace of 230 VAC
50 Hz instead of 120/60?
> regards, Leonard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carter Hendricks [mailto:carter@i1.net]
> Sent: zondag 16 januari 2000 18:02
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: [JN] lab power supplies
>
> I think I'll go back to a local shop tomorrow or
> tuesday and pick up a Hoefer PS 1200. It is
> adjustable for voltage & current in increments
> from 0 - 1200 VDC & 0 - 325 mA. It came from
> a microbiology lab at Monsanto.
>
> 1. Does anyone know anything about this
> particular power supply?
>
> 2. Does anyone want the 2nd one [yes there
> are two].
>
> --Carter
>
> Leonard Scheepsma
> Business Development Manager
> Ericsson Radio Systems AB
> Torshamnsgatan 33 Kista
> SE-164 80 STOCKHOLM
> Sweden
> Tel.+31-161-242711, Fax. +31-161-242663, GSM. +31-6-5474-6331
> E-Mail: leonard.scheepsma@etm.ericsson.se
- --
Christian Rintelen Konzept und Text
Dufourstrasse 165 CH-8008 Zurich / Switzerland
Voice: +41 1 420 11 55 Fax: +41 1 420 11 57
mailto:rintelen@datacomm.ch
=========================================================================
From: "Leonard Scheepsma (ETM)" <Leonard.Scheepsma@etm.ericsson.se>
Subject: RE: [JN] lab power supplies
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:45:44 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n406
Hi Christian,
I wasn't sure it's American equipment anyway, "Hoefer" could sound German also...
See where Carter comes back with...
leonard
- -----Original Message-----
From: Christian Rintelen [mailto:rintelen@datacomm.ch]
Sent: maandag 17 januari 2000 13:59
To: Joelist
Subject: Re: [JN] lab power supplies
Leonard
many US lab power supplies have mains transformers with two 117 V primaries in parallel that can be
hooked up in series for 234 V (like my Fluke 407). If the
mains transformer can't be wired for 230 V, just get a 230:115 V transformer (not expensive). Proble
m is that the mains transformers are designed for 60 Hz.
Connected to a 50 Hz power grid, they normally hummmm mechanically (like my Fluke 407...). (The magn
etic flux at 50 Hz is 20 151096gher than with 60 Hz. Most of
the 60 Hz transformers can't handle this.)
Christian
"Leonard Scheepsma (ETM)" wrote:
> Carter,
> Could use such a device, but how large and heavy is this? (the costs for shipping from the US?? to
Europe will probably be stratospheric sais my intuition!)
> And what's the price in the shop, and, most important, does it support an main voltace of 230 VAC
50 Hz instead of 120/60?
> regards, Leonard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carter Hendricks [mailto:carter@i1.net]
> Sent: zondag 16 januari 2000 18:02
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: [JN] lab power supplies
>
> I think I'll go back to a local shop tomorrow or
> tuesday and pick up a Hoefer PS 1200. It is
> adjustable for voltage & current in increments
> from 0 - 1200 VDC & 0 - 325 mA. It came from
> a microbiology lab at Monsanto.
>
> 1. Does anyone know anything about this
> particular power supply?
>
> 2. Does anyone want the 2nd one [yes there
> are two].
>
> --Carter
>
> Leonard Scheepsma
> Business Development Manager
> Ericsson Radio Systems AB
> Torshamnsgatan 33 Kista
> SE-164 80 STOCKHOLM
> Sweden
> Tel.+31-161-242711, Fax. +31-161-242663, GSM. +31-6-5474-6331
> E-Mail: leonard.scheepsma@etm.ericsson.se
- --
Christian Rintelen Konzept und Text
Dufourstrasse 165 CH-8008 Zurich / Switzerland
Voice: +41 1 420 11 55 Fax: +41 1 420 11 57
mailto:rintelen@datacomm.ch
=========================================================================
From: StepHydro@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] lab power supplies, Carter
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 06:40:38 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n406
In a message dated 01/17/2000 6:<BR32:<BR52 AM
Eastern Standard , Leonard.Scheepsma@etm.ericsson.se writes:
> 2. Does anyone want the 2nd one [yes there are two].
>
> --Carter
Carter,
If Leonard doesn't get that second one, and there isn't a backup buyer,
please note that I am standing behind him :-)
Please let me know at your convenience.
Cheers/Don Carron
Rockford TN
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] Ladegaard arm operation info
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:50:43 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n757
Hey gang, just a quick observation about using the Ladegaard air bearing
tonearm. Tom Dunker's text correctly states that precise adjustment of level
is required for this to work properly.
I first implemented that with an adjustment scheme that allowed the carriage
to become out of parallel with the platter, in other words, the platter
might be slightly tilted when the carriage is perfectly level.
No good. Both MUST be in the same plane. Otherwise the platter can seem to
be slanted "downhill" with respect to the arm and the result is poor
tracking (as well as azimuth misadjustment.)
So once you have set your VTA with the height adjustment, you MUST make sure
the carriage is level with the platter. Then levelling of the carriage and
platter must be done together as a unit. In practice, it means that VTA is
better done with shims under the carriage than with a free adjustment. Or
some means of maintaining parallel with the platter must be combined with
the VTA adjustment, i.e., a parallelogram type arrangement.
Two little screw jacks (like the kind for your car but in ~1:20 scale) on a
common threaded shaft would be good - anybody know where these might come
from? Edmund Optics maybe?
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] Ladegaard Arm Progress Report - it works!
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:18:58 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n749
Hey! I got it working! Pretty well, too!
Last night I mounted my Ladegaard air-bearing linear tracking tonearm to my
Teres turntable and got it up and running and playing music for the first
time.
Thanks to everyone who helped in the development of this project, especially
Tom Dunker for championing it so enthusiastically - it really is a supremely
elegant and straighforward design.
My initial impressions are tempered by the fact that I am using my #3
cartridge to preserve the better ones as I hack around with this (gotta
install some sort of cuing lever/arm rest!) Nonetheless, the sound is very
promising. In particular the midrange seems more transparent and bass is
very strong. The upper range of the sound is probably compromised by the
cartridge at this point but it is certainly not BAD - a little rough though.
This is all without a precise adjustmant of VTA or even tracking angle.
Certainly I expect to make improvements as I lock in the cartridge
alignment, which should be pretty straightforward given the limited number
of variables. The lateral bearing works perfectly as does the knife-edge,
just as one would hope.
Sometimes you gotta laugh, though.
I set the arm up and was playing the first record, so I triumphantly called
my wife downstairs to witness the historic event. She was properly
congratulatory, and then asked, "Why is it going backwards?" "Huh?" I asked
her, in my most perceptive manner. "The record looks like it is going
backwards, it's coming at the needle instead of going away from it."
In my laser-sharp focus on my work I had managed to mount the tonearm on the
wrong side of the spindle, and was indeed tracking the cartridge backwards.
I had to remove the brackets and start all over. How embarassing! But Ellen
made me promise to admit it, so there it is. Tracked fine anyway, BTW, the
linear bearing doesn't seem to care at all, an interesting experiment FWIW.
I wonder how well a linear bearing would survive the "scratching" of a DJ.
Some other pitfalls I was able to overcome:
I was suffering from inadequate lifting capacity at first, which I traced to
a poor seal between the perforated part of the V-channel and the bottom-most
piece of V-channel. Double-stick tape (the ~1/16"-thick, "foam" kind) is
inadequate for this purpose, at least it was for me. What I ended up doing
was using some small (1/8" x 1/4") pieces of double-stick at the four
corners to locate the two V's with respect to each other, then sealing
around all the edges with silicone caulk. I hate silicone caulk. (All this
comes, of course, after making the perforated tapes for the air outlets and
attaching them to the inside of the perforated V-channel. I used Mylar tape
sealed with PVC electrician's tape - perfect.)
Another thing I did to increase lift (well, increase the effectiveness of
such lift as I was able to get) was to reduce the weight of the
tonearm/carriage asssembly. I removed the edges of the "carriage" V-channel
where they protrude above the peforated V-channel, and I removed about a
third of the lead counterweight and slid it further away from the fulcrum to
compensate. I will weigh the various parts when I get a chance - the days
when I had a triple-beam-balance on my coffee table are long, long gone.
I am getting sufficient lift now although I wonder if I will be able to add
any more mass to the carriage (to tweak the vertical mass vs. the horizontal
mass) or if I am on the edge of capacity. I am using a Top Fin 50 Gallon
aquarium pump with two air outlets which I got from Petsmart.com for 15
bucks.
https://www.petsmart.com/products/product%5F850.shtml
The pump's two air outlets feed two hoses that lead into a small smoothing
tank made of 1" PVC pipe, and a 3rd hose emerges from that tank to feed the
arm. I used the 1/4" tubing from an icemaker installation kit and the
associated fittings to make a screw-on attachment to the bottom-most
V-channel. This pump makes a little bit of noise, audible from across the
room during very quiet passages or silence, but I have made NO efforts to
muffle it yet. I feel confident a rubber bag surrounded by a felt bag will
work well, provided I don't block the air intake. There is also some hiss
from the air outlets in the arm mount itself but I doubt I will hear that
from across the room once I get the pump quiet.
I built adjustable mounting brackets for the arm very easily using brackets
intended for hanging shelves to the wall, the horizontal portion is about
10" long and mates with a special U-channel which has slots pre-cut into it.
The only mods I had to make were to enlarge the slots slightly to accept a
6/32 bolt, and to secure the channel to the bracket with screws because the
bracket is used to support the channel in my installation and they are
designed to do the reverse. I will probably epoxy this assembly together
later. The slots now provide a very easy means of vertical adjustment which
serves to provide a VTA adjustment and an adjustment to get the air bearing
exactly level. I probably should get the air bearing exactly parallel with
the record surface and then level the whole shebang together but for now
this works, admittedly there is room for azimuth inaccuracy in this setup as
it stands.
I used the Radio Shack 30ga. Kynar-insulated wire-wrap wire for tonearm
cables. I carried twisted pairs all the way to RCA plugs, plugged into my
RIAA preamp. The influence of the wire, at least this wire, on the mechanics
of the tonearm seem to be a total non-issue. I am having a feedback problem
when the tonearm cable gets too near one of my speaker cables, I get a
massive motorboating oscillation in that channel after I turn up the volume
past halfway, I may try shielding the last part of the cables and certainly
rerouting them. I may be able to put the RIAA preamp a bit closer to the
turntable at some point, too, and shorten the tonearm wires somewhat. I have
no ground whatsoever at the turntable/cartridge end (the twisted 30 ga.
pairs run straight into the input of the 1st RIAA stage, one side gets
grounded there, one side feeds the grid via a small stopper) and I have no
hum. But I worry about the static-discharge problems Tom Dunker warned us
about. The stopper may need to be increased, the whole thing might be RF
parasitics I suppose.
Unlike our colleague Jonathan Carr, I do not feel comfortable making my own
cartridge, nor do I make speaker drivers like Messrs. Danley and McKinney,
so I think I have my system almost about as DIY as I'm going to get it: DIY
arm, turntable, RIAA, line stage, power amp, and speakers. The CD is
store-bought, I guess if I ever listen to it again I can try building one of
those. Each part still presents opportunities for further refinement, I'll
keep you all posted of course.
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.ntnu.no>
Subject: [JN] Re: Ladegaard Arm Progress Report - it works!
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:36:20 +0100 (CET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n754
Hey Jeremy, congrats with the working arm. I hope you've been enjoying
this little project as much as I did.
There's one thing I realize that I forgot to mention, now that you bring
it up:
> grounded there, one side feeds the grid via a small stopper) and I have no
> hum. But I worry about the static-discharge problems Tom Dunker warned us
> about. The stopper may need to be increased, the whole thing might be RF
> parasitics I suppose.
I experienced a tendency for a static electricity buildup between the
floater and the air hole rail, which would discharge causing loud pops.
I solved this problem by connecting the two parts electrically with a
thin, flexible wire so they remain at the same potential. I just used
sticky tape to connect the bare wire ends at some convenient spots on the
metal surfaces.
Otherwise, the air flow along the not-quite mating surfaces causes a
slight friction and you get a kind of Wimshurst-machine type rubbing
effect that polarizes the charge. By shorting this "capacitor" the problem
is solved.
Thomas
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.ntnu.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \--\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@omegav.ntnu.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone: (+47)73911068 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] Ladegaard Arm Progress Report - Night 2
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:22:07 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n749
OK, I couldn't stand the suspense listening to Cartridge #3 (a real shoddy
piece of crap) so I installed #2, a still-cheap 29 dollar Grado which
nevertheless sounds great and is what I have been listening to since
building my Teres. (I am waiting until I put the heavy tools away before I
install my more expensive Grado.) I have a base of comparison going back a
few months with this cartridge in an inexpensive conventional arm (the
Australian Radio surplus arm sold by David Crittle.)
Well, the Ladegaard arm is clearly better - better detail, better extension,
better dynamics, better Downward Dynamic Range as Allen is fond of calling
it. It betters the conventional arm's performance compared to the two spots
where the conventional arm is at its null points, everywhere on the disc,
all the way to the lead-out groove. This is a very striking improvement
compared to any conventional arm I have ever heard - these always have some
degradation at the end of a side. But the linear tracker is competely immune
from this and this is very cool indeed.
But the WAY cool thing: I just cannot believe how good 7" 45's sound using
this arm. Obviously, one could expect big things from these little discs due
to the faster spin and the sometimes wider pitch, but since a conventional
arm geometry is almost always set up for LP's, the tracking is rarely
optimized for 7" 45. Well, the linear arm throws this out the window. I put
on a torture record to test the tracking ability, a Pringle-shaped warped 45
of the Valentinos' "It's All Over Now" (it's the only copy of this rarity
I've ever been able to find, what can I tell you?) and was completely bowled
over. Not only did the arm track the disc well, but the sound was far
superior to the CD transfer I have of this cut - it was absolutely
fantastic. It became clear that I have been missing a lot of sound from my
45's all these years, and that I will be playing them more often now. An
excellent surprise!
I still have a motorboating problem when I turn up the volume (which is in
the circuit after the line stage) which I am puzzled by. I tried changing
the first grid stopper at the input of the RIAA stage (because I always
first suspect parasitics are at the root of these things, given that I have
had them in several different circuits) to a 10X larger value, but this did
not solve the problem. It is triggered by handling the tonearm cables, I
guess this puts LF on the input and starts the ball rolling. I can tell that
the motorboating is occurring in the RIAA stage because I can see the gas
regulators flashing on and off when it gets to be its worst. I guess I
really DO have power-supply decoupling issues here then, and so I will
install an additional pi filter to the first RIAA stage. Pain in the ass to
fit any caps here but I guess I need 'em. I'll try some 100uF TSHA's and
maybe a 5k resistor for a first swipe at it. I have spare B+ voltage to burn
anyway (running at 300V) so it won't be a problem to drop it a little.
What are the odds my gas regulator tubes are themselves at the root of the
problem, and need to be swapped out?
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: "Jan Hass" <jh@hifi-analyse.dk>
Subject: RE: [JN] Ladegaard works!
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:56:20 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n749
Hi Jeremy
Congratulation with the promising results of your efforts with the Ladegaard arm. There are still ma
ny details that needs attention i guess. But I think its great that the arm is preforming so well in
the first, or was it second set-up - and even works in reverse !! How about a picture ??
greatings Jan Hass
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Lady Anna & Gentle Joes
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:43:22 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n772
Thanks you Kurt -- the gentleman, as always, to remember my presence here in
such a lovely way. And my best wishes to all for wonderful music throughout
the new year.
xoxo
Anna (Joe-sephine :-)
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: [JN] Lady Anna & Gentle Joes
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 22:18:59 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n772
Year 2000 has been a good year to our virtual society.
Many , many interesting issues has been discussed in a usually good spirit.
But maybe must important , a lot of Joes met one another - face to face - in the internaional Triode
Festival
in Denmark.
This has without doubt , meant a lot to us all , and it will bring fruits for many years to come.
Do you remember last year , at this time of the season ?
Holocaust and Y2K horrors was predicted... Planes and elavators were bound to crash in huge amounts
...
Hospitals and other life important enterprises would experience loss of energy , and machines would
turn of...
Maybe a handfull of people in the world , did not belive in these Y2K
tales. I was happy to be one of them. Easy to say efterwards , but I postet against it a week before
the feared date..
Now we have the true year 2000 shift. ( 1-2001 = 2000 years)
This means that we should espect total disaster in a few hours....
It has been predicted by religions , famous men and other interesting books for hundreds of years. M
aybe even milleniums.......................
Will it then be true this time ?
I would not count on it.... We human beings needs things to belive in.
And I have the deepest respect for your religion and urge to have something to hold on to.
But I am afraid that the real danger comes from our self..
We are so impressed by the knowledge and innovative skills of mankind , that we can hardly see the w
ood for
trees.
We ought to just take one step to the side , and see what mankind have achieved in its time...
We kill one another in mass. We accept that 60.000 children die from hunger , every 24 hour.
Every minute , a new machine or product is made , that will pollute nature , or in other way destroy
the quality on this little blue fragile planet.
And though we still do not fully understand the most basic physics of nature , we do not hesitate to
play with atoms and gene technique.
Well , I do see the good things man do... But I think that there is to few of them.
What on earth is it that is so important and has so much rush , that we can not allow ourselfes to j
ust stop up , for a minute , clean the room , and take care that the neigbours child do not have to
die from hunger..?
We have plenty of food for everybody. Education and a new world order would solve the most urgent pr
oblems.
The rest is up to the goodwill from you and me.
But I fear , that we give up , even before we start. I can allready hear all the political and pragm
atic arguments.
What a vaste....
I hope year 2001 will be a good one to you , me , Joelist and the world.
Keep them vacuums lit , and lit a light for PEACE....
Happy New Year , - my friend.
Yours truly - Kurt Steffensen
=========================================================================
From: Dan Marshall <mdaniel7@uswest.net>
Subject: [JN] Lafayette parts needed
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:32:36 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n939
Yo,
I have a Lafayette integrated tube amplifier, LA-236 or LA-250, they
look the same. It has those strange little maroon-colored knobs with
dual knobs on the bass/treble controls. Some knobs are missing, so if
anyone is parting out a Lafayette amp, or receiver, with the same knobs,
I sure could use a few exact replacements. Thanks. I can reference an
eBay pic to show what it looks like.
Someone had one of these listed on eBay a while back and was commenting
on how exceptionally good it sounded with all Telefunken tubes, claiming
that it bettered most very well-regarded amplifiers of similar
heritage. Mine came with three Tele 12AX7s, then I bought a quad of
Telefunken EL86s on eBay for 10 or 12 bucks, so I would like to
resurrect this thing, tweak it in, and see whether this be so.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: TUBEBUYER@aol.com
Subject: RE: [JN] Lafayette parts needed
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:33:00 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n940
I need a couple also, after Dan finds his.
Thanks,
Rick
I have a Lafayette integrated tube amplifier, LA-236 or LA-250, they
look the same. It has those strange little maroon-colored knobs with
dual knobs on the bass/treble controls. Some knobs are missing, so if
anyone is parting out a Lafayette amp, or receiver, with the same knobs,
I sure could use a few exact replacements. Thanks. I can reference an
eBay pic to show what it looks like.
=========================================================================
From: Robert C Chambers <rchamber@norwich.edu>
Subject: [JN] "Lambda 755"
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:52:18 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n448
On Sun, 13 Feb 2000, Nicholas McKinney wrote:
SNIP
> PSPS - I hate to open a can of worms, but I am also working on a "Lambda 755"
> driver for those that might be interested.
>
> Nick
Hi Nick-
No can of worms - I, and I suspect others too, will eagerly await your
announcement of its availability! Is this in your first quarter of 2000
time slot?
Regards,
Robert
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mindspring.com>
Subject: [JN] Lambda Acoustics & E-mail
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:16:01 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n931
Hi folks,
Had a long telephone conversation with Nick yesterday, and he has given
me permission to share some of it with you-
It will come as no surprise to some of you that Nick is becoming
notorious for not answering e-mail. There are two reasons for this —
first, he has less and less time for correspondence because his business
is consuming a more and more of his time. Secondly, his e-mail server
done blowed up good. Crashed and burned it did, with such verve and
malevolency that that neither the techietrolls at Eudora, nor the
protogurus at Mindspring can figure out how to fix it. So Nick has
'fired' both of them and is in the process of buying and installing new
e-mail software.
Yea!
Paul B
- --
Paul Butterfield
Central Florida Audio Society
TAD 2001 Recovery Project
Orlando (Winter Park) Florida, USA
paulbutterfield@usa.net
paulbutterfield@mindspring.com
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Lambda Acoustics & E-mail - an Option
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:36:40 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n931
- --part1_7f.17a65800.288f3658_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Greets!
Use snail mail and buy the TD15M drivers and build or buy a box and listen.
Mine are mounted in 80 Hz ehorns, thank you Bruce, and everything I play
sounds better than ever before. Anywhere. Well, except, maybe, the Baltimore
Civic Center auditorium in the late sixties... went to see Janis Joplin and
that guy who imitated John Belushi and the Paul Butterfield Blues Band and
could hear perfectly in the cheap seats. Biggest horn array I have ever seen
hanging from the ceiling... wonder where it is now...
Nick is finding out what happens when your products really put out... you
work all the time.
I used to work, but, I honestly like listening better. Imagine :)
I sometimes do miss my mind, but, ....
Thanks, Nick!
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
- --part1_7f.17a65800.288f3658_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>Greets!
<BR>
<BR>Use snail mail and buy the TD15M drivers and build or buy a box and listen.
<BR>
<BR>Mine are mounted in 80 Hz ehorns, thank you Bruce, and everything I play
<BR>sounds better than ever before. Anywhere. Well, except, maybe, the Baltimore
<BR>Civic Center auditorium in the late sixties... went to see Janis Joplin and
<BR>that guy who imitated John Belushi and the Paul Butterfield Blues Band and
<BR>could hear perfectly in the cheap seats. Biggest horn array I have ever seen
<BR>hanging from the ceiling... wonder where it is now...
<BR>
<BR>Nick is finding out what happens when your products really put out... you
<BR>work all the time.
<BR>
<BR>I used to work, but, I honestly like listening better. Imagine :)
<BR>
<BR>I sometimes do miss my mind, but, ....
<BR>
<BR>Thanks, Nick!
<BR>
<BR>Happy Ears!
<BR>Al B^}
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_7f.17a65800.288f3658_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mpinet.net>
Subject: [JN] Lambda Acoustics sub(woofer)-First Listening arranged
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:13:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n319
Hi Thorsten, Luc, Magnus -
I'm considering auditioning/ordering one of his drivers, so I have been
keeping up with the posts concerning Nick McKinneys' (Lambda Acoustics) subs &
woofers, RE Faraday rings, prototypes, and extended frequency
response/extended inductance, so I have arranged to go over there today to
listen to the subwoof he has on his webpage at:
www.lambdacoustics.com/products/drivers/prototype.html.
I will post a report with my opinions soon.
Paul B.
- --
Paul Butterfield
Squeaky Chair Recording Studio
Central Florida Audio Society
Winter Park (Orlando) FL USA
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mpinet.net>
Subject: [JN] Lambda Acoustics sub(woofer)-First Listening arranged (LONG)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 13:11:11 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n323
Hi Magnus, Joe's, Bassers -
I had the opportunity to have an extended afternoon and early evening
listening session over at Lambda Acoustics with Nick’s prototype sub earlier
this week. The 12 inch sub was in a box (about the size of a 19 inch
television, or the size of a countertop microwave) with two of his 15-inch
passives on the sides.
My opinion? Bottomline: I ordered three of the drivers, one 10-inch for
mono/center channel use, and two 15-inch for a high efficiency system I’m building.
Nick has built a 12 inch extended range sub that has a clean midrange. Not the
muddy midrange that is sometimes associated with subs and woofers, (like in my
Vifa M26WR’s) but one that reproduces music well. We listened to Sgt. Peppers
‘Lovely Rita,’ ‘When I’m 64’ - the 1812 Overture - Branford Marsalas - The
Fairfield Four - Jack Teagarden - The ‘opera’ cut from the movie, The 5th
Element - Jurassic Park Lunch - and conga music smuggled out of Cuba. In
summary, the bass & upper bass harmonics were (excuse the popular parlance) -
fast, Fast, FAST! (Ahhh, sorry, couldn't help it) and the driver reproduced
bass that was solid and tight in the lower octaves. But don’t take my word for
it. Listen to it.
One can wax poetic, and use all the glittering audiophillia generalities
available in the lexicon of the audio reviewers’ double edged pen, but, alas,
I’m not a glossy mag stereo reviewer, so I’ll spare you the effuse pomposity,
and just describe the speaker. The driver Nick's building has an elegant motor
design - with a very large whole-pole (including gap) copper Faraday cylinder
for flat inductance, an aluminum cast basket with side vents, a 2-inch
edgewound copper ribbon voice coil on a Kapton and Nomex former, a Nomex
spider, a poly cone with a treated/dampened surround, 5-way binding posts,
heavy duty tinsel lead out wire that is both crimped and silver soldered to
the voice coil lead in wire. No dustcap, but the driver will be utilizing a
solid billet aluminum anodized phase plug. Tight tolerances throughout. All
this adds up to a design with lower distortion, faster transient response, and
an actual frequency response extending to the higher treble range. It does
have a treble bump around 1.5k that will have to be notched out, and the
treble got a little clipped and ragged out beyond 9k-10k. But, as Nick
reminded me, Its only a *Sub*...
But again, do not take my word for it. Listen to his sub yourself if you are
going to be in Orlando area.
Magnus, FYI, the 10 inch driver I ordered is for a three channel
stereo/mono/center channel system I’m building. The other two woofers I
ordered for this system will be 15 inch extended range high efficiency woofers
with a curvilinear paper cone derived from an Altec design (same as in the
10"). These drivers will be designed for low power high impedance tube (PP,
SE) and solid state high impedance amps, such as the Pass Zen. But, I will
have to wait until next year for those. <grump, grump> So, all three drivers
will be similar in design - in order to integrate into a three channel system
- - three Lambda drivers to mate with three TAD 2001 horns. Woof! So much fun!
Some of the preliminary information is at the website-
www.lambdacoustics.com/products/drivers/prototype.html.
Comments appreciated, and while critical comments are appreciated as well,
flames are ignored.
Yours in music,
Paul
- --
Happy Ears!
Paul Butterfield
Consulting Producer; Overland Productions
Squeaky Chair Recording Studio
Central Florida Audio Society
Winter Park (Orlando) FL USA
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mpinet.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: Lambda Acoustics sub(woofer)-First Listening arranged (LONG)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 13:06:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n324
Hi Claude,
Claude Dickson wrote:
>
> Paul:
>
> I talked at length with Nick of Lambda and heard the 12" woofer over the
> phone. I could not believe how well this single driver was reproducing
> Diana Krall's voice!
>
> Before the flames start, I cannot verify what I was listening to nor can I
> verify the quality of bass over the phone. However, I CAN tell you that if
> it really was a single 12" driver, it was playing MUCH higher than any other
> 12" driver that I have EVER heard!
I can verify that when I was over at Lambda, Nick did indeed play his sub over
the phone to another. (Actually, he quite delights in this!) Hearing his sub
played over the phone was what prompted me to come over and listen to it. In
my case, he played some Louis Armstrong cuts over the phone. <big grin> Also,
at Lambda, we listened to most of the Diana Krall album on his one sub, and
although it did pretty good job on her voice, it reproduced the acoustic bass
rifts of the Krall album quite believably. As to how accurate, cannot say, but
we plan on a session to A/B the sub with my old Kay upright acoustic bass.
Will record same Kay upright bass with Neumann 190 to 15 IPS analog or DAT for
playback - Now, *that* will be a fun listen.
> If this driver is as good as he claims, we will all have to re-think our
> designs. These woofers have the potential to greatly expand the range of
> 2-way designs. For example, this driver could allow for a 2-way design
> using either the Raven R1 or R2 with one of these drivers. Previously, such
> a design would have required the MUCH more expensive R3. The only problem
> Nick identified is beaming at higher frequencies.
Rethinking already. I'm going to hear what a 2-way combo Lambda driver with
TAD 2001 will do. Hopefully by the end of the year. Some fun, eh?
> For those of us who are space challenged, he is working on two designs of
> interest. One will use the 10" driver with two 12" passive radiators in a
> sealed enclosure of 1.0 cu. ft. He claims this design will go down to 20Hz.
> Another will use the 12" driver with two 15" radiators and will go down
> even lower!
During one of Nick's tests several weeks ago, I could see (and hear) the 12"
driver doing around 20Hz. It was fed a 20Hz sine from a HP generator, with
about a 1 to 1.25 inch excursions - we left for lunch (about an hour) and when
we returned, Nick stopped the test, and stuck his finger on the VC, and
remarked, "Not even warm!". I did same, and he was correct, it was not even
warm. One of the advantages of the copper Faraday I suppose?
> Of course the proof is in the pudding, but I am cautiously very excited
> about these woofers!
Likewise cautious. After I get the driver(s), I will want to listen to them
for about a month before I comment fully on extended listening impressions.
Next Saturday a group from the Central Florida Audio Society and the Tampa Bay
Listening Society will have a chance to listen to the same sub I have, or
maybe two...
Paul
Happy Ears!
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Butterfield
Consulting Producer; Overland Productions
Squeaky Chair Recording Studio
Central Florida Audio Society
Winter Park (Orlando) FL USA
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: Lambda Acoustics sub(woofer)-First Listening arranged (LONG)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 13:32:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n324
At 12:08 PM 11/6/99 -0800, Claude Dickson wrote:
>Paul:
>
>I talked at length with Nick of Lambda and heard the 12" woofer over the
>phone. I could not believe how well this single driver was reproducing
>Diana Krall's voice!
Yes, she does have such a nice voice. I use her recordings frequently for
voice reproduction. The bass is always a bit too plump IMHO, but that
seems to be a Doug Sax signature.
>Before the flames start, I cannot verify what I was listening to nor can I
>verify the quality of bass over the phone. However, I CAN tell you that if
>it really was a single 12" driver, it was playing MUCH higher than any other
>12" driver that I have EVER heard!
It was a single 12" poly cone "sub", and why I haven't posted any frequency
response graphs.
I would be attacked with so many emails from people saying I was lying I
would never get any work done at the shop. I will wait until testing is
done by others.
You can look at the pictures of the impedance graph at the website to see
what is going on. The area from where the phase crosses the 0 mark (about
200hz or so) to the point where it goes 45 degree positive is very wide.
First the 200hz point is quite high to begin with for a "subwoofer", then
the 45 degree point is up around 8Khz. The NHT 45 degree point is at 1Khz
to give you an idea.
Also this graph can be repeated for a much larger xmax of the driver than
is typical, something that is really hard to accomplish. This one
specification IMHO determines more of the "sound" of the driver than
anything else when you play it "loud". Those that own Scanspeaks and
Dynaudios know this trick, the drivers do not change their sound much when
you really crank the volume.
I always wanted a subwoofer to match, I had to build my own to get what I
wanted.
>If this driver is as good as he claims, we will all have to re-think our
>designs. These woofers have the potential to greatly expand the range of
>2-way designs. For example, this driver could allow for a 2-way design
>using either the Raven R1 or R2 with one of these drivers. Previously, such
>a design would have required the MUCH more expensive R3. The only problem
>Nick identified is beaming at higher frequencies.
Well there is this 1~2Khz cone edge resonance, I have lowered it some with
a generous coating of damper.
(Very generous)
You also still have Doppler problems, so the high frequency limit will be
partly set by the xmax you have on the driver as well.
(I am envisioning an array for myself)
>For those of us who are space challenged, he is working on two designs of
>interest. One will use the 10" driver with two 12" passive radiators in a
>sealed enclosure of 1.0 cu. ft. He claims this design will go down to 20Hz.
> Another will use the 12" driver with two 15" radiators and will go down
>even lower!
Well, the designs are such that you can use lighter PR and keep the Spl
smooth to 20Hz, but then the phase change is not so smooth. Or you can use
heavier PR and raise the F3 to get the phase change smoother.
The PR xmax still set the limit for the bass output below 20hz. Hoffman's
Law is still intact. The larger box is 3dB louder than the smaller one, it
doesn't really go any lower.
Nick
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: Lambda Acoustics sub(woofer)-First Listening arranged (LONG)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 19:39:08 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n324
At 12:41 PM 11/7/99 -0800, Claude Dickson wrote:
>Nicholas:
>
>Are you thinking in terms of a sealed or dipole array? Personally, my
>concern about a sealed array would be the size of the enclosure required.
>We spoke about 2 cu. ft. for a single 12" driver with two 15" PRs. An array
>of four 12" drivers would take 8 cu. ft in a sealed enclosure is huge!
For myself it would be a PR type array.
I was playing the Mercury recording with the 1812 and I think Wellington's
March? Anyway it is the one with all the smaller guns going off.
I want to make that more realistic, I am short on Spl with the one cabinet.
With the array you gain alot of cabinet volume with the height.
Two of those acting as L&R channels, now that would be fun...............
>A
>dipole configuration would be one solution, but you need to get the Q up to
>about 1 for it to work well.
I posted a few days ago about a motor designed just for dipole use. I
don't have it here at the house though. I could resend it if you need.
Nick
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: [JN] Re: Lambda Acoustics sub(woofer)-Two Way Experiments
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 12:25:20 -0700 (MST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n325
On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, Bob Stout wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Nov 1999 DennyDB@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I, for one, would be very interested in listing feedback on 2-way
> > systems built around the Lambda drivers. Perhaps a Manger, Newform-45"
> > ribbon, and Raven ribbon(s) could be brought over to Lambda Acoustics
> > for full range listening sessions. The extended frequency capability
> > of the Lambda might allow for simple crossovers which sum well without
> > much phase error.
>
> Based on the Lambda's reported high end, it would be a natural for using
> with a 1st-order Xover. The trick then would be selecting a treble section
> that had the same properties with the goal of realizing a symmetrical
> crossover. To me, this is a no-brainer - ribbons sound great but are
> fragile. Manger's. OTOH, work quite reasonably with 1st-order Xovers
> since they can easily handle the power requirements.
Much of the reasoning presented in this thread puzzles me. I have watched
this discussion proceed with nary a dissent to the notion that annulling
the self-choking characteristic of a large voice-coil will confer aught
but advantages in multi-driver systems. I cannot see the advantage of
running a 12" woofer with an ordinary tweeter, as some have proposed, and
certainly not with a first-order low-pass. Two octaves at least of image
shifting as the polar patterns of woofer and tweeter jigger augmentation
and cancellation. Since there is not the normal reactive rollout of the
woofer to assist shaping of the stopband skirt, I would think such a
driver would require electrical replacement of the missing mechanical
order to avoid a rather cheeky characteristic.
Moreover, good though it might be, this reactance-neutralized woofer
cannot be the ablest of partners to such as the Manger or to a line-source
"ribbon" in octaves where lambda induces woofer beaming. It is like
Eastwood continuing to grip the horse's reins at the point where the
damsel has succeeded in overcoming his aversion to female flesh.
Let's put this mystery to bed.
Doug Purl
(And Bob, there were eight carboned addresses on your reply; you must scan
the carpet in your home office and at least do some partial vacuuming.)
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: Lambda Acoustics sub(woofer)-Two Way Experiments
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:38:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n325
At 12:25 PM 11/8/99 -0700, Douglas Purl wrote:
>I cannot see the advantage of
>running a 12" woofer with an ordinary tweeter, as some have proposed, and
>certainly not with a first-order low-pass. Two octaves at least of image
>shifting as the polar patterns of woofer and tweeter jigger augmentation
>and cancellation.
The dispersion was never mentioned to be good, as a matter of fact I seem to
remember saying the driver "beams like a flashlight". I don't know of any wide
range driver be it woofer based, midbass based (Lowther, etc), ribbon, planar,
horn, or otherwise that has a polar pattern a multiway cone and dome speaker
system would be proud of. You realize your compromises, and choose accordingly
IMHO.
>Since there is not the normal reactive rollout of the
>woofer to assist shaping of the stopband skirt, I would think such a
>driver would require electrical replacement of the missing mechanical
>order to avoid a rather cheeky characteristic.
It is this reactive roll out that causes the worst sound problems. There is
where standard inductance varying drivers are at their worst. This new driver
can actually get closer to "textbook" xovers because of this feature. It does
not need the copious extra filtering to prevent it from spewing a garbled mess
higher in frequency. Remember that the crossover point just defines the point
at which the 2 drivers give an equal power out, it doesn't mean that the driver
with the low pass is cut off with a brick wall. However, people using them are
more than welcome to filter as hard as they choose.
>Moreover, good though it might be, this reactance-neutralized woofer
>cannot be the ablest of partners to such as the Manger or to a line-source
>"ribbon" in octaves where lambda induces woofer beaming. It is like
>Eastwood continuing to grip the horse's reins at the point where the
>damsel has succeeded in overcoming his aversion to female flesh.
And what drivers are?
Smaller 7" midbasses?
The same ones with large amounts of distortion trying feebly to reproduce the
octave from 100~200hz?
In my opinion, when we don't face compromises in a speaker system, is when the
perfect one has been made. I won't bank on it being invented anytime soon.
IMHO, I have just opened a whole new world of compromises.
Nick
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: [LambdaDrivers] Re: Arrays
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 17:52:55 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n339
At 01:57 PM 11/20/99 -0800, Claude Dickson wrote:
>From: "Claude Dickson" <bogieworf@hotmail.com>
>
>This strikes me as an awful expensive way to get good vertical dispersion.
>Given the quality (and cost) of your drivers, there would have to be an
>extremely compelling reason to do this array. It is not clear to me what
>that reason would be. As pointed out, even at $100/driver and a 5 Bessel
>array, we would be talking about a $1,000 worth of drivers. Given the
>quality of your drivers, expect the cost would be closer to $2,000. I agree
>with everyone else, this is not a project to invest a lot of money into. I
>just can't see the return. However, like everyone else, I'd love to learn
>the results.
Yeah the cost was what caused me at first to think it was a crazy idea. I
am estimating more like $1100 for the 12 drivers though in a matched set.
However, when I ran some numbers the 6 drivers have a net voltage
sensitivity of 98.7dB with a 2.83V input and a minimum impedance of 5.3
ohms. The F3 for the combination I did was 75hz in a sealed box. It would
also take about ~500W to get the drivers out of xmax above 80Hz.
Those are serious numbers to consider. With the gap needed between the
drivers, and the dispersion characteristics of the array, it is a
theoretical match for the Raven ribbons.
Can we say home theater from hell?
Nick
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
www.onelist.com/community/LambdaDrivers
=========================================================================
From: John Niven <jn@cypress.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Lambo , Porche and my Cobra
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:21:07 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n555
Miroslav Kubala wrote:
>
> Hi Stefano
>
> I love cars I can drive daily...AND I LOVE TO BE HAPPY.
When I arrived in California the best thing I found was a 1971 VW
Karmann Ghia. It was cheap, rust free, and original. I loved this car,
to me the perfect fusion of German engineering and Italian style, but
it's rare in my home country (Great Britain). I know it's just an
upmarket beetle really but you can have fun for little $'s. It surprises
me how many people want to tell you of the time they had one.....
I drive mine daily, do my my own repairs, and call her Miranda, gettit?
How about we convert this thread to how to get the best auto sound?
My Ghia has a cheap 4 channel radio/cassette, the front pair go to some
full rangers I had, and the rear channels go to a single DVC 6.5" driver
in a closed box. I need more power (not the engine - if your daily
commute averages 18 mph you don't need a big engine :-)
John
=========================================================================
From: "Miroslav Kubala" <mikubala@swissonline.ch>
Subject: [JN] Lambo , Porche and my Cobra
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:59:51 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n555
Hi Stefano
I love cars I can drive daily...AND I LOVE TO BE HAPPY.
A Lamborghini Diablo ( I have it driven myself from Bern to Frankfurt ( 400
km ) is NO
fun. Behaves like a truck and hot horror in the city - O.K. nice to look
at.
Perhaps good for ami-roads you drive 55 miles but not here on superfast
small roads .
I have also the posibility to drive a Ferrari Testarossa any time I want. No
space for
your legs inside , the interior looks shitty ( NO Aston Martin quality )
All these Italian cars , and we have quite a lot of these here in
Switzerland , are the
whole time in repair.
PHHha..
They are nice to look at but thats all.
No more Daytonas ,NO MORE THE OLD MAGIC what a pitty.
The TVR I like much better but english quality....
Porsche - yeah technicaly perfect , but NO soul , kind of steril .NO Ornella
Mutti - kind of Marlene Dietrich
- - and sorry , Marlene !
Thats a diffrence between a CONSTRUCTED german car and a CHAOTIC EXITED
CONCEPT
of a italien car.
AND : the most people here in Europe hate you because of the car.
> That said, I've been a Lamborghini customer for years and I've always been
a
> Porsche owner and enthusiast; I think you can translate this kind of
> enthusiasm, in this context, as a Sonus Faber and EMT user. The latest
> Porsche 996 Turbo is just like a EMT950: a technological overkill that
makes
> you wonder what on hell can they do next, to improve on a similar
> masterpiece.... I drove it hard for a few hundreds kilometres, in Spain,
and
> was really impressed. No, awed.
>
> No kit car, please. Back to your 911s. Better, safer, more stylish....
O.K. my Cobra is a kitcar in some way , He/she is build by profs. with swiss
specs and swiss quality , no rattle , you can use it every day
and I will. The suspention is with Konis , you can even have Porsche Turbo
breaks on it if you want.
300+++++ horsepower with Kenny Bell supercharger, 500+++ torque , 850 kg
more with me in ;-) )
A sound that makes Chateau Petrus / or old Cheval Blanc of your blood.
AND you dont need to drive 280 km/hour to feel great.
My wife drives a 5- series BMW - too perfect for me.And she hates Alfa Romeo
since the last Berlina 2000 I had years before.
When I drive with the Cobra here everybody smiles at me - the oldfashion
look , nothing to show off.
NO stripes on my car.
NO Porsches.
NO Ferraris.
I want to sleep in my garage on Conolly leather , look at the Smith ( NO
ORIGINAL - but I dont care ) instruments
and fall in sleep with the sound of the hot exhaust cooling down.
Mirko
P.S,
I sold my EMT already - like the old Thorens better
I know my opinion is WERY subjective right in the moment. It rains inside
...but also in a Lambo.
> Ciao
>
> Stefano
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Norman Luttbeg <nluttbeg@politics.tamu.edu>
> To: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>; <sound@lists.io.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [JN] deep in love..in a Cobra
>
>
> >
> > Moments of regret. I once drove a Cobra 289 for a week and really loved
> the
> > experience. It was for sale for $3900, and I offered $3500!!! I probably
> > would have ruined it as I would have had to drive it to work daily in
> > Tallahassee. I have seriously thought of replicas, but I wonder if you
can
> > ever go back.
> >
> > The only car I have driven which approaches the feel of the Cobra is the
> > Viper, but it is butt ugly and feels like a Chysler! I once drove a TRW,
> but
> > it was shortly after I totalled a Iso Grifo and was nervous during the
> > drive. I thought it was to confined and too subtle. I have owned several
> > Porches and have been in the new turbo under acceleration. Again while
> they
> > are great cars and I was very impressed, it was not the same feel.
> >
> > Enough, or I will end up buying a replica today.
> >
> >
> > Norm
> >
>
=========================================================================
From: Phil <tube@jump.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Lame Al's Lame Excuse :)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:55:47 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n985
TubeGarden@aol.com wrote:
> I look marvelous. I am not ugly, just sick.
>
> Happy Ears!
> Al B^}
Okay, Al, since you say so, I believe you, but ...
Anyone with a sense of humor as outrageous as yours has got to be
SERIOUSLY twisted somewhere!!! (hate to think where ...)
Sure hope I get to meet you someday. And listen to the stereo!
Until then I'll just continue to look forward to reading your posts --
or
whatever they should be called.
Thanks for the laughs!
Phil
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Lame Al's Lame Excuse :)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:57:13 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n985
- --part1_111.611f9ba.28e613f9_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 9/28/01 7:08:23 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
rconte@attglobal.net writes:
> If you are disabled, can't work, probably have family, how you get paid,
> welfare, how can you afford amplifiers, find time to build or is your
> tweaking therapy from the bed...Curious, no malicious intention...but
> why not work at a job?
>
Hi Rich,
I have CFS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Some unknown agent has turned my blood
supply down to minimal. I did Heparin (blood thinner) test for a month a few
years ago. For two days I could think clearly and remember things. It passed,
never happened again.
I was a software guy. I got sick on a business trip to Argentina in 1997. I
have private Long Term Disability insurance. Since I paid for it with after
tax dollars, it is tax free now.
Yup. I build circuits in bed. Keeps me sane. Well, sometimes, a little less
crazy :)
My wife has been disabled since 1994. Different disease. Lightening strikes
where ever and whenever it damn well pleases.
I do this Internet stuff flat on my back in bed. My monitor hangs face down
from the ceiling. Lately I have perked up, I lie on my side for this 'net
stuff.
I can operate upright for an hour or three. Not regularly, but 2 to 4 days a
week. I do the shopping for food and meds.
I am getting better, but sooo slowly. The first year or so I couldn't finish
brushing my teeth.
I still have an engineer's bad attitude about wonderful product concepts from
Sales and Marketing.
Like a Texas sheep, I can hear a Product Manager's zipper from a mile away :)
Soft start. Making a preamp double as an extension cord. Colored glass tubes.
You know, bullshit :)
We are all free to do as we please, but, I did as others pleased for many
decades, no more.
OK, except for Wife and Mom and my DINK (Double Income No Kids) Son and his
Wife.
I look marvelous. I am not ugly, just sick.
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
- --part1_111.611f9ba.28e613f9_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/28/01 7:
08:23 AM US Mountain Standard Time, rconte@attglobal.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px
; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">If you are disabled, can't work, probably have family, how you get paid,
<BR>welfare, how can you afford amplifiers, find time to build or is your
<BR>tweaking therapy from the bed...Curious, no malicious intention...but
<BR>why not work at a job?
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Hi Rich,
<BR>
<BR>I have CFS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Some unknown agent has turned my blood supply down to mini
mal. I did Heparin (blood thinner) test for a month a few years ago. For two days I could think clea
rly and remember things. It passed, never happened again.
<BR>
<BR>I was a software guy. I got sick on a business trip to Argentina in 1997. I have private Long Te
rm Disability insurance. Since I paid for it with after tax dollars, it is tax free now.
<BR>
<BR>Yup. I build circuits in bed. Keeps me sane. Well, sometimes, a little less crazy :)
<BR>
<BR>My wife has been disabled since 1994. Different disease. Lightening strikes where ever and whene
ver it damn well pleases.
<BR>
<BR>I do this Internet stuff flat on my back in bed. My monitor hangs face down from the ceiling. La
tely I have perked up, I lie on my side for this 'net stuff.
<BR>
<BR>I can operate upright for an hour or three. Not regularly, but 2 to 4 days a week. I do the shop
ping for food and meds.
<BR>
<BR>I am getting better, but sooo slowly. The first year or so I couldn't finish brushing my teeth.
<BR>
<BR>I still have an engineer's bad attitude about wonderful product concepts from Sales and Marketin
g.
<BR>
<BR>Like a Texas sheep, I can hear a Product Manager's zipper from a mile away :)
<BR>
<BR>Soft start. Making a preamp double as an extension cord. Colored glass tubes. You know, bullshit
:)
<BR>
<BR>We are all free to do as we please, but, I did as others pleased for many decades, no more.
<BR>
<BR>OK, except for Wife and Mom and my DINK (Double Income No Kids) Son and his Wife.
<BR>
<BR>I look marvelous. I am not ugly, just sick.
<BR>
<BR>Happy Ears!
<BR>Al B^}
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_111.611f9ba.28e613f9_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: ldmoore@att.net
Subject: Re: [JN] Lame Al's Lame Excuse :)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:09:16 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n985
Al:
Hope ya continue to improve. I always enjoy reading
your posts. Keep it up!
L.D. Moore
=========================================================================
From: Rich Conte <rconte@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Lame Al's Lame Excuse :)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 21:38:04 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n985
Al,
I thought I was sending this to you privately, but again, I was just
curious, not being
mailicious...you are amazing...just goes to show what them tubes can do
for ya'
Hang in there and godspeed recovery.
Long time reader Rich Conte
Cheers...and honor among men!
TubeGarden@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/01 7:08:23 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> rconte@attglobal.net writes:
>
> > If you are disabled, can't work, probably have family, how you get
> > paid,
> > welfare, how can you afford amplifiers, find time to build or is
> > your
> > tweaking therapy from the bed...Curious, no malicious
> > intention...but
> > why not work at a job?
> >
>
> Hi Rich,
>
> I have CFS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Some unknown agent has turned my
> blood supply down to minimal. I did Heparin (blood thinner) test for a
> month a few years ago. For two days I could think clearly and remember
> things. It passed, never happened again.
>
> I was a software guy. I got sick on a business trip to Argentina in
> 1997. I have private Long Term Disability insurance. Since I paid for
> it with after tax dollars, it is tax free now.
>
> Yup. I build circuits in bed. Keeps me sane. Well, sometimes, a little
> less crazy :)
>
> My wife has been disabled since 1994. Different disease. Lightening
> strikes where ever and whenever it damn well pleases.
>
> I do this Internet stuff flat on my back in bed. My monitor hangs face
> down from the ceiling. Lately I have perked up, I lie on my side for
> this 'net stuff.
>
> I can operate upright for an hour or three. Not regularly, but 2 to 4
> days a week. I do the shopping for food and meds.
>
> I am getting better, but sooo slowly. The first year or so I couldn't
> finish brushing my teeth.
>
> I still have an engineer's bad attitude about wonderful product
> concepts from Sales and Marketing.
>
> Like a Texas sheep, I can hear a Product Manager's zipper from a mile
> away :)
>
> Soft start. Making a preamp double as an extension cord. Colored glass
> tubes. You know, bullshit :)
>
> We are all free to do as we please, but, I did as others pleased for
> many decades, no more.
>
> OK, except for Wife and Mom and my DINK (Double Income No Kids) Son
> and his Wife.
>
> I look marvelous. I am not ugly, just sick.
>
> Happy Ears!
> Al B^}
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] Lame Al's Lame Excuse :)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 00:57:22 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n985
Rich, Al, et al
Nothing Al says should be keep off list. His reply's and general
observations and his way of saying things indicate a man we need to keep
around. Having now read about how severe his problems are and the fact
that he can keep a great face and voice to all of us makes me respect him
all the more.
Cheers Al
and to all joe's
Richard Nevill
who whines about his sore knee at the end of a day, but in reality is
pretty small potatoes.
On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Rich Conte wrote:
> Al,
>
> I thought I was sending this to you privately, but again, I was just
> curious, not being
> mailicious...you are amazing...just goes to show what them tubes can do
> for ya'
>
> Hang in there and godspeed recovery.
>
> Long time reader Rich Conte
>
> Cheers...and honor among men!
>
> TubeGarden@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 9/28/01 7:08:23 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> > rconte@attglobal.net writes:
> >
> > > If you are disabled, can't work, probably have family, how you get
> > > paid,
> > > welfare, how can you afford amplifiers, find time to build or is
> > > your
> > > tweaking therapy from the bed...Curious, no malicious
> > > intention...but
> > > why not work at a job?
> > >
> >
> > Hi Rich,
> >
> > I have CFS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Some unknown agent has turned my
> > blood supply down to minimal. I did Heparin (blood thinner) test for a
> > month a few years ago. For two days I could think clearly and remember
> > things. It passed, never happened again.
> >
> > I was a software guy. I got sick on a business trip to Argentina in
> > 1997. I have private Long Term Disability insurance. Since I paid for
> > it with after tax dollars, it is tax free now.
> >
> > Yup. I build circuits in bed. Keeps me sane. Well, sometimes, a little
> > less crazy :)
> >
> > My wife has been disabled since 1994. Different disease. Lightening
> > strikes where ever and whenever it damn well pleases.
> >
> > I do this Internet stuff flat on my back in bed. My monitor hangs face
> > down from the ceiling. Lately I have perked up, I lie on my side for
> > this 'net stuff.
> >
> > I can operate upright for an hour or three. Not regularly, but 2 to 4
> > days a week. I do the shopping for food and meds.
> >
> > I am getting better, but sooo slowly. The first year or so I couldn't
> > finish brushing my teeth.
> >
> > I still have an engineer's bad attitude about wonderful product
> > concepts from Sales and Marketing.
> >
> > Like a Texas sheep, I can hear a Product Manager's zipper from a mile
> > away :)
> >
> > Soft start. Making a preamp double as an extension cord. Colored glass
> > tubes. You know, bullshit :)
> >
> > We are all free to do as we please, but, I did as others pleased for
> > many decades, no more.
> >
> > OK, except for Wife and Mom and my DINK (Double Income No Kids) Son
> > and his Wife.
> >
> > I look marvelous. I am not ugly, just sick.
> >
> > Happy Ears!
> > Al B^}
>
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: [JN] Lamhorn
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:01:23 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n024
hey,
looking for Robert, or anyone with his current email...
sorry for the bw...
dave
=========================================================================
From: Mark Donen <mdonen@bu.edu>
Subject: [JN] Lamhorn & Beauhorn
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:43:14 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n607
Hi
Does anyone have any views on the important substantive differences between these cabinets, or heard
both of them?
The Beauhorn is front loaded as well as backloaded obviously.
Thanks
Mark
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end
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: Re: [JN] Lamhorn & Beauhorn
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:07:06 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n607
hey bert...
whats the scoop on the AER driver?
you mention the beauhorn needs a tweeter? i thought the fronthorn was
supposed to help that?
plus with the added efficiency of the front horn, how does the bass keep
up... specially if you add a tweeter, i know the cabs are big, and they
rear fire so corners can be used, but still...
i agree with you on the lamhorns, they have a very nice sound.... robert, i
know you are luking... do you have any thoughts on the AER's?
dave
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <LCH@lowther.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Lamhorn & Beauhorn
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:40:29 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n607
Hi Mark,
> Does anyone have any views on the important substantive differences between
these cabinets, or heard both of them?
I haven't heard both of them, but related to my experiences with the different
approach, the Lamhorn with the AER will do a much better job! More extended
with a very nice balance! The beauhorn needs a tweeter on top but should have
very nice balanced mids if used with the DX3 (or EX3) and less congested used
with the DX4 (or EX4) driver. Both EX's used with the Beauhorn diffuser.
> The Beauhorn is front loaded as well as backloaded obviously.
Visual and audible two totally different horns!
Bert,
- ------
E-mail:
BD-Design : Sales@lowther.nl
Lowther Club Holland : LCH@lowther.nl
Homepage : http://www.lowther.nl
Oris 150 : http://www.lowther.nl/wwwpages/opinions.html
Phone/Fax : +31 341 254500 Mobile: +31 6 51242990
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Lamhorn & Beauhorn
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:56:23 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n607
Hello,
>you mention the beauhorn needs a tweeter? i thought the fronthorn was
>supposed to help that?
Nope. And the Beauhorn does not neccesarily need either tweeter or
subwoofer. With a DX3 it will manage 50Hz - 16kHz with about +/-3db under
1/3rd Octave averaging....
However, if like me, you regulary drink your Batear Powder Tea and
occasionally have the Elephantine Smash, you will appreciate the 25Hz - 50Hz
and 15kHz - 35kHz additions from a Visaton Subwoofer and Supertweeter.
>plus with the added efficiency of the front horn, how does the bass keep
>up... specially if you add a tweeter, i know the cabs are big, and they
>rear fire so corners can be used, but still...
It's simple. The rear Horn is what is usually called "Hyper Exponetial" or
"Hyperbolic". It is really a true 100Hz Horn and uses the Floor reflection
(as it fires rear/downwards) to extend down to 50Hz....
BTW, my Goodmans Axiom based Box using DDDLLQD (Dual Driver Dynamic Loading
for Low Q Drivers) manages the 2Hz -6db point without Subwoofer. But even
with the sublime Goodmans Axiom 80 handling the High Frequencies (and it
does that a lot better than the best Lowthers) I added a Motorola Dual
Piezotweeter set to -6db @ 20kHz crossover to entertain my neigbouring Bat's
and myself....
Later T
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <LCH@lowther.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Lamhorn & Beauhorn
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 21:08:21 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n607
Hi Dave,
> whats the scoop on the AER driver?
No scoop, talk to Robert Lamarre...
> you mention the beauhorn needs a tweeter? i thought the fronthorn was
> supposed to help that?
Yes, Lowthers used with the bulb diffuser or other big things in front of it
makes the top frequencies (the tonal balance) dissapear by spreading the
energy. A front horn helps the driver in the low-mids.
> plus with the added efficiency of the front horn, how does the bass keep
> up... specially if you add a tweeter, i know the cabs are big, and they
> rear fire so corners can be used, but still...
You can make a front horn very efficient or less, lowering the resonance
frequency or move this up until you have found a certain balance...
Bert,
- ------
E-mail:
BD-Design : Sales@lowther.nl
Lowther Club Holland : LCH@lowther.nl
Homepage : http://www.lowther.nl
Oris 150 : http://www.lowther.nl/wwwpages/opinions.html
Phone/Fax : +31 341 254500 Mobile: +31 6 51242990
=========================================================================
From: "Robert Lamarre" <rlamarre@rlacoustique.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Lamhorn & Beauhorn
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 18:03:27 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n608
Hi guys,
Yah Dave, I am lurking.
Basically Bert is right in saying that the AER is more balanced and soft
compared to the Lowthers.
The AER actually permits you to use silver wiring without any thinning of
the bass.
Actually better use copper for Lowthers and silver with the AERs.
I haven't heard the Beauhorns so cannot say which I like more.
Will be hearing the Hedlun Horn this week or next and plan to bring a pair
of AERs
with me. That will be interesting.
I will keep you posted on the Headlun DX2 VS AER shoot-out.
Regards,
- ---------- Robert Lamarre ------------
- ----- RL Acoustique, Canada -----
- ------- Ph/Fx: 450-653-3461 -------
- -- rlamarre@rlacoustique.com <mailto:rlamarre@rlacoustique.com> --
- ----- www.rlacoustique.com <http://www.rlacoustique.com> ------
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
Behalf Of dave slagle
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 9:07 AM
To: sound@deliverator.io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Lamhorn & Beauhorn
hey bert...
whats the scoop on the AER driver?
you mention the beauhorn needs a tweeter? i thought the fronthorn was
supposed to help that?
plus with the added efficiency of the front horn, how does the bass keep
up... specially if you add a tweeter, i know the cabs are big, and they
rear fire so corners can be used, but still...
i agree with you on the lamhorns, they have a very nice sound.... robert, i
know you are luking... do you have any thoughts on the AER's?
dave
=========================================================================
From: Garyj74@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Langevin Pots?
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:17:55 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n753
Can anybody tell me anything about these pots--Are they made by Daven, or are
they similar to the Daven pots?
The units are Langevin RCA-147273-4 Attenuators?
Thanks for your help,
Gary
=========================================================================
From: longrie@mmace.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Langmuir Child Law was Re: [JN] EE101: Distortion canceling
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:57:28 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n749
From: Paul Joppa <pj@bottlehead.com>
>Subject: Re: [JN] EE101: Distortion canceling
>
>His small but excellent
>bibliography attributes this analysis to Langmuir (1913) and Schottky
>(1914); I believe Child discovered it experimentally around the same
>time but I can't find the reference.
Here are the references:
Child, C. D., "Discharge from Hot CaO," Physical Review, vol. 32,
pp. 492-511, 1911. Thermionic emission from calcium oxide.
Formulates laws of emission.
the Langmuir is from 1915
Langmuir, Irving, "The Pure Electron Discharge, and Its Application In Radio
Telegraphy And Telephony," Proc. IRE, vol. 3, pp. 261-293, 1915.
This is perhaps the first paper with an accurate understanding of
thermionic emisson. Clear reading in the modern scientific style.
Good review of prior work Provides references. Peer discussion is
included.
We have both of these papers in the tube papers collection.
regards
gary
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: [JN] Language...
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:05:38 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n038
Christian asked:
> All you gotta do is learn some German. How can you live in Munich and not
> understand the people?!? ;-)
Easily! One of the reasons I do not/have not learnt the language is that
without it it's almost a meditation to be in a public place like the U-Bahn
(subway) - and not have to be automatically & unwillingly involved in all
the private/personal (& often BS) conversations going on around...
I can't read the 99% bad news garbage in the papers/TV - advertising
doesn't bite into me as intended by people such as you unless it has great
graphics, and generally it a relief not to get swept along with the mass
agreements of the population.
When in an English speaking country it is not the same - there is more
participation but much less meditation.
Another reason is that I'm pretty lazy unless motivated by something that
really interests me - like great music, tube amps, fast cars...
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language...
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:15:14 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n039
Allen,
I note from your add in SP#16 that you speak little German: you sell
"feinsilber foil".........
Guido
At 10:05 10-2-99 -0500, Allen Wright wrote:
>Christian asked:
>
>> All you gotta do is learn some German. How can you live in Munich and not
>> understand the people?!? ;-)
>
>Easily! One of the reasons I do not/have not learnt the language is that
>without it it's almost a meditation to be in a public place like the U-Bahn
>(subway) - and not have to be automatically & unwillingly involved in all
>the private/personal (& often BS) conversations going on around...
>
>I can't read the 99% bad news garbage in the papers/TV - advertising
>doesn't bite into me as intended by people such as you unless it has great
>graphics, and generally it a relief not to get swept along with the mass
>agreements of the population.
>
>When in an English speaking country it is not the same - there is more
>participation but much less meditation.
>
>Another reason is that I'm pretty lazy unless motivated by something that
>really interests me - like great music, tube amps, fast cars...
>
>Allen (VSE)
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Mackris, Thom G." <tgmackris@vicorpinc.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Language as a second English
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:39:20 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n278
Most of Jeremy's culturally sensitive and "right-on" post was snipped, for
brevity, but I thought this part was worth saying AMEN to ...
Right on, Jeremy.
Thom
Jeremy keenly observed ...
I think the worldwide nature of our group is one of
its big strengths, let's not screw that up by being culturally
insensitive.
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@shwd.com>
Subject: [JN] Language as a second English
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:08:40 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n278
Snoopy, here's some English you might find useful : "Blow it out your
ass!" - a mildly irreverent expression of disagreement, with implied
good humor (but with an edge of seriousness.)
Use it when people get on your case for no reason (it also comes in
handy when driving) and keep on posting!
That's what I think.
By the way, those who replied to you were not (as far as I can tell)
criticising your post for commercialism, they were just getting silly
based on an ambiguity in something you wrote. By writing "scheduled on
Oct. 3 Sunday 1-5 p.m. at a private residence for SERIOUS audiophiles."
instead of, for example, "scheduled . . . at a private residence,
serious audiophiles only are invited to attend" it sounded like there
was "a private residence for serious audiophiles," kind of like a
retirement community or old age home for nuts like us. You have to admit
that would be a pretty funny place, albeit crowded (with horn speakers,)
overheated (with tube amps,) and loud.
In the US we don't seem to have quite the reverence for our elders that
you do, and many older Americans are shunted off into group living
situations instead of being cared for by their descendants in the family
home, as I understand is the practice where you live.
While we're on this subject, I would like to point out that there are
many on this list for whom English is a second language (any truth to
the rumor that Doug Purl learned his erudite vocabulary off of BBC World
Service?) and their contribution is, IMHO, essential to the best
enjoyment of this list for everyone else. Not only that, I feel safe in
saying their English is a whole hell of a lot better than our Dutch or
Cantonese, so let's give people a break - I mean, Kurt is always
apologizing for his English and he usually makes more sense than almost
anyone else here! I think the worldwide nature of our group is one of
its big strengths, let's not screw that up by being culturally
insensitive.
By the same token, please don't take offense where none is intended -
there is a lot of banter and joking on this list which I personally
really like, and I would hate to see that stifled. JoeNet attracts some
pretty quick wits from what I've seen. I personally have gotten in
trouble by being sarcastic in email, which sometimes falls VERY flat and
gets misinterpreted in unintended ways, and have had to learn to watch
what I say until I have built up a rapport with my correspondent. Even
then, I was able to commit a gaffe with someone who has been reading my
email for several years - it's easy to do.
- -j
- --
=====================================
Jeremy Epstein .... jepstein@shwd.com
=====================================
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:29:16
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n278
A 03:08 PM 9/14/99 -0400, Jeremy Epstein a écrit :
>By the way, those who replied to you were not (as far as I can tell)
>criticising your post for commercialism, they were just getting silly
>based on an ambiguity in something you wrote. By writing "scheduled on
>Oct. 3 Sunday 1-5 p.m. at a private residence for SERIOUS audiophiles."
>instead of, for example, "scheduled . . . at a private residence,
>serious audiophiles only are invited to attend" it sounded like there
>was "a private residence for serious audiophiles," kind of like a
>retirement community or old age home for nuts like us.
A pretty good one happened on the harpsichord list the other day. Someone
said, approximately, "I will be performing on an original fortepiano by the
German builder Kramer (Nov. 19, 1810). I had to break the news to him that
he'd let the concert date slip by on his schedule, and the audience had
been terribly disappointed.
dbk
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English, danglers, 6DJ8s
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:35:21 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n278
> A 03:08 PM 9/14/99 -0400, Jeremy Epstein a écrit :
>
> >By the way, those who replied to you were not (as far as I can tell)
> >criticising your post for commercialism, they were just getting silly
> >based on an ambiguity in something you wrote. By writing "scheduled on
> >Oct. 3 Sunday 1-5 p.m. at a private residence for SERIOUS audiophiles."
> >instead of, for example, "scheduled . . . at a private residence,
> >serious audiophiles only are invited to attend" it sounded like there
> >was "a private residence for serious audiophiles," kind of like a
> >retirement community or old age home for nuts like us.
>
Amen, Jeremy, well put.
My favorite misplaced danglers are:
"I'd like a billfold for my husband that folds in the middle."
"I'd like some food for my baby that's strained."
On an audio note... was there some issue of Vacuum Tube Valley that
clarified all the different 6DJ8s? And is it true that all Amperex and
Siemens 9-pin tubes had the little ridges in the glass stemming from the
nipple? I'm serious, I'd like to know.
- --Rick
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <davidbarnett@aristotle.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English, danglers, 6DJ8s
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:33:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n278
On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:35:21 -0400, Rick Francis
<rfrancis@glasscity.net> wrote:
>On an audio note... was there some issue of Vacuum Tube Valley that
>clarified all the different 6DJ8s?
Issue #7
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Mackris, Thom G." <tgmackris@vicorpinc.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:13:53 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n279
Jean-Michel, Tung-cheung -
Regarding the decreasing quantity of technical posts on the list, I think
you're just witnessing a natural ebb & flow of activity. Everything in life
has its own rhythm which is just one reason why music appeals to all of us
so much.
Some of us Joes have outdoors interests in addition to our audio / music
hobby and with the outdoors season here in the Northern Hemisphere, I know
that many of my projects (as well as those my friends) are on "hold" for the
duration of the warm weather.
As valued gurus check out of the list, others check in. In my profession
(software engineering), we have a saying: "make peace with change". The
movement is not all away from the list - witness the fact that the brilliant
and humble Steve Bench has begun contributing. Since Steve is far too
modest to promote his web site, check it out at:
http://members.aol.com/sbench101/
I now finally understand how to work out load lines ... thanks Steve !!
Although I consider myself to be following in Jeremy's footsteps (as a guage
of my technical prowess), one day, I'll be able to contribute more
substantively to the group.
Best Regards,
Thom
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:50:02 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n279
> De : Snoopy <tcma@netvigator.com>
> A : Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
> Objet : Re: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
> Date : jeudi 16 septembre 1999 17:08
> 4. I feel getting lost in the Joelist some times......... Le Cleac'h
> J.-M., where are you???
Hello,
I am still by there and ready for positive discussion if any... (BTW nobody
asked me even one question about the screen driven tube used in my line
preamp, do new design are out of interest on the Joenet anymore?)
But to come back to the topic: as another guy for which English is not his
mother language, I want to say here that I understand very well Tung-cheung
MA's posts and find them informative.
About his post about Edgar, surely if I was at a shorter distance from the
showroom I surely would attend to a demo and I thank Tung-cheung MA for
having given the information...
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "Snoopy" <tcma@netvigator.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:08:09 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n279
Dear Jeremy,
Thank you for your reply. Thank really for pointing out the ambiguity
in something I wrote in my email. In response to your email and others, I
would like to clarify the following points:
1. My original email (of subject Edgarhorn - Demo & Email of ......) is
intended to let other people know the email address of Dr. Edgar and his
scheduled demo, NOTHING more. Many flamed wars originated from different
opinions, but I don't think the email should be flamed in any way because it
does not involve any specific opinion. If it is flamed just because there
is ambiguity in something I wrote, or it is written not up to standards, or
whatever, this is non-sense and stupid (sorry, I can't appreciate the
American humors here as I am receiving the Hong Kong/British-styled
education and coming from an entirely different culture.). If those people
can point out the ambiguity direct to me, NO problem and I will accept
wholeheartedly. Please be understood that the Cantonese and Chinese
(Mandarin) that I am using are totally different from the English that you
are using. The respond form a Joenetter called Joe Pledger says it all:
> I just got back to the list after a short break, and found a message from
> someone in HK (sorry I clean out the already read tray everyday...) about
> Dr. Edgar having a come listen schedule for the special horns. Then
someone
> else took great exception to terminology (or whatever) and flamed the
> person's message. So here you have a non-native English speaker (although
> quite well written) getting a couple flames for mentioning something that
> would be of interest to members within driving distance!! If the "Audio
> Police" are taking over the JN list, perhaps I should bail out too. I
> thought this was about music, and not some other agenda, or some strictly
> local groupie thing. Lets be respectful, or not comment at all.
2. I DO know that those people are not criticising my post for
commercialism, and my declaration in my another email (of subject Seeking
Advice on....) on being not commercial is originally meant to make things
simpler (but actually the converse).
3. In the above-mentioned email, what I am really meant to say that the
quality of Joelist is getting lower
and it's getting more "non-technical", "shallow" and "non-relevant"......
I think it's time to review how to maintain its uniqueness and restore its
quality.
4. I feel getting lost in the Joelist some times......... Le Cleac'h
J.-M., where are you??? And other humble guys with profound knowledge whom I
am missing? Of course the Joe-list is not exclusive for me, but my own
expectation from the Joelist is a more technical, respectful, elegant and
serious list, with discussions making sense, more relevant and up to the
point. Sound Practices are the greatest audiophile magazine (not meant for
everyone) to me, which are dedicated to music and truly high-ended musical
systems. I think the Joe-list should follow the direction of SP. Another
Joenetter wrote (without his prior consent, I don't want to mention his name
here):
> Hi, nothing wrong with you, I just think that many of the truly technical
> wizards have left ;-(
5. I do agree with you on your statement "the worldwide nature of our
group is one of its big strengths", but this is not enough.......
6. Cultural differences DO exist, so the American humors may be
"mis"-interpreted as other meanings by us who have non-English mother
tongue. But in my opinions, Sid Smith (contributing to the all-time classic
MARANTZ 7 pre-amplifier) and Paul Klipsch (a truly audio pioneer on horn
loudspeaker) are the audio people that we should RESPECT at all times.
Cultural differences DO exist, but what we should do is to respect the old
or senior people.
7. Most of the Joenetters are humble, honest and respectful. To my
views, manners/altitudes are more important than knowledges. Please be
respectful at all times.
8. Please excuse me for not saying up to the point on some occasions as
English is not my mother tongue. Bear in mind that I have to spend trible
effort in comprehending and writing correspondences in English as compared
with most of you. No matter in any language that I write my
correspondences, my principle is that I will double-check their content and
the wording so as not to hurt other people or cause any mis-interpretation.
9. For the time being, I would like to spend more time in setting up
Altec, Gauss, TAD horn speakers; building S.E. interstage transformer
coupled amps; driving my BMW car (a used car which I have just bought);
taking photos with my Contax A1 camera; internet eBay bidding; playing with
my ten Chinchillas; and making love with my lovely wife..... This email is
my last word on this subject, PERIOD.
10. Thank you for the bandwidth.
Best Regards,
Tung-cheung MA
16 September 1999 11:00 p.m. HONG KONG
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@shwd.com>
To: <tcma@netvigator.com>; Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 3:08 AM
Subject: [JN] Language as a second English
> Snoopy, here's some English you might find useful : "Blow it out your
> ass!" - a mildly irreverent expression of disagreement, with implied
> good humor (but with an edge of seriousness.)
>
> Use it when people get on your case for no reason (it also comes in
> handy when driving) and keep on posting!
>
> That's what I think.
>
> By the way, those who replied to you were not (as far as I can tell)
> criticising your post for commercialism, they were just getting silly
> based on an ambiguity in something you wrote. By writing "scheduled on
> Oct. 3 Sunday 1-5 p.m. at a private residence for SERIOUS audiophiles."
> instead of, for example, "scheduled . . . at a private residence,
> serious audiophiles only are invited to attend" it sounded like there
> was "a private residence for serious audiophiles," kind of like a
> retirement community or old age home for nuts like us. You have to admit
> that would be a pretty funny place, albeit crowded (with horn speakers,)
> overheated (with tube amps,) and loud.
>
> In the US we don't seem to have quite the reverence for our elders that
> you do, and many older Americans are shunted off into group living
> situations instead of being cared for by their descendants in the family
> home, as I understand is the practice where you live.
>
> While we're on this subject, I would like to point out that there are
> many on this list for whom English is a second language (any truth to
> the rumor that Doug Purl learned his erudite vocabulary off of BBC World
> Service?) and their contribution is, IMHO, essential to the best
> enjoyment of this list for everyone else. Not only that, I feel safe in
> saying their English is a whole hell of a lot better than our Dutch or
> Cantonese, so let's give people a break - I mean, Kurt is always
> apologizing for his English and he usually makes more sense than almost
> anyone else here! I think the worldwide nature of our group is one of
> its big strengths, let's not screw that up by being culturally
> insensitive.
>
> By the same token, please don't take offense where none is intended -
> there is a lot of banter and joking on this list which I personally
> really like, and I would hate to see that stifled. JoeNet attracts some
> pretty quick wits from what I've seen. I personally have gotten in
> trouble by being sarcastic in email, which sometimes falls VERY flat and
> gets misinterpreted in unintended ways, and have had to learn to watch
> what I say until I have built up a rapport with my correspondent. Even
> then, I was able to commit a gaffe with someone who has been reading my
> email for several years - it's easy to do.
>
> -j
> --
> =====================================
> Jeremy Epstein .... jepstein@shwd.com
> =====================================
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:35:37 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n280
- ----------
> De : Mackris, Thom G. <tgmackris@vicorpinc.com>
> A : 'lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr' <lecleach@cgis0.ensmp.fr>; Snoopy
<tcma@netvigator.com>; Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
> Objet : RE: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
> Date : jeudi 16 septembre 1999 20:13
> Some of us Joes have outdoors interests in addition to our audio / music
> hobby and with the outdoors season here in the Northern Hemisphere, I
know
> that many of my projects (as well as those my friends) are on "hold" for
the
> duration of the warm weather.
Hello,
Well I am not sure that meteorology enlights the whole story...
> As valued gurus check out of the list, others check in. In my profession
> (software engineering), we have a saying: "make peace with change". The
> movement is not all away from the list - witness the fact that the
brilliant
> and humble Steve Bench has begun contributing. Since Steve is far too
> modest to promote his web site, check it out at:
> http://members.aol.com/sbench101/
It is an excellent website with a lot of most interesting things.
Congratulations to Steve!
> I now finally understand how to work out load lines ... thanks Steve !!
So you are ready now to improve that knowledge by new approaches do
describe or model tube's behaviour;
http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/new.html
and:
http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/h3.htm
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:37:17 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n280
Conrad Drake wrote:
> #Flame on! Flame on!
> Basically, because I, for one, missed it _entirely_ in the stream of
> shallow, offtopic and witless comments that appear between the HTML,
> images and (excessive) quotations which comprise this list.
> #flame off
There are a few people on the list who constantly burn my time with
their - largely - inane one & two liners.
I for one could really do well without having to continually trash these
comments.
In fact, there are a couple of people whose posts I simply trash without
reading . . .
> For those of you who care,
> a) trim your quotes
> b) hold your tongue
> c) turn off HTML
PLEASE ! ! ! ! !
> d) think before hitting "send"
> e) take it off-line (ie to private email) if you think it is _not_ of
> general interest.
Bill - PEARL
=========================================================================
From: Conrad Drake <conrad@directwest.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:51:02 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n280
sound-digest wrote:
> From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
>
> I am still by there and ready for positive discussion if any... (BTW nobody
> asked me even one question about the screen driven tube used in my line
> preamp, do new design are out of interest on the Joenet anymore?)
#Flame on! Flame on!
Basically, because I, for one, missed it _entirely_ in the stream of
shallow, offtopic and witless comments that appear between the HTML,
images and (excessive) quotations which comprise this list.
#flame off
For those of you who care,
a) trim your quotes
b) hold your tongue
c) turn off HTML
d) think before hitting "send"
e) take it off-line (ie to private email) if you think it is _not_ of
general interest.
For those of you in digest mode, check the SNR of the half dozen
messages following following M. Le Cleac'h's comment :-(
Conrad Drake
- --
Direct West Invs. Solutions for Embedded Systems.
conrad.drake@directwest.iinet.net.au (ph)+61 8 9285 1000
http://directwest.iinet.net.au (mb)+61 40 747 1611
12 Gayton Road, City Beach, WA 6015 AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: SBench@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Language as a second English - What's Joelist?
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:42:38 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n281
In a message dated 99-09-17 03:53:40 EDT, lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr writes:
<< So you are ready now to improve that knowledge by new approaches do
describe or model tube's behaviour;
http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/new.html
and:
http://web.mit.edu/cheever/www/h3.htm
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
>>
Hi Jean-Michel,
Very nice presentation on those sites. Have you considered
a possible SPICE model that accomodates the tanh function
alluded to? I've noted that effect as well, but I've not been able
to find an adequate modelling function that holds up very
well for arbitrary bias and load conditions. The exact bias for
operation in the "valley" varies quite a bit from tube to tube,
so it is difficult to pre-establish the condition without "tuning"
for it.
Comments certainly appreciated.
Best Regards,
Steve
=========================================================================
From: Jeff Mai <jeffmai@kscable.com>
Subject: [JN] Large, early VOT for sale on eBay
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:24:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n205
Any Joes with an interest in vintage Altec VOT equipment should check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131364496
Too bad I'd never get it back here to KS from it's current home in western PA.
Apparently the owner really wants rid of it as there is no reserve.
I've no affiliation, of course. Just thought someone might find it
interesting.
Jeff
=========================================================================
From: James Melhuish <james@melhuish.org>
Subject: [JN] Larry and Chadd's Big Fun Horn
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:05:17 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n915
Hi All,
Just letting you all know that an article with images of Larry and
Chadd Moore's special big fun horn are up on the net:
http://melhuish.org/audio/diy33.htm
James
- --
James Melhuish
Single Driver Website http://melhuish.org/audio/
mailto:james@melhuish.org
=========================================================================
From: Mark Donen <mdonen@bu.edu>
Subject: [JN] Re: Larry Moore's amplifier dreams
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:09:45 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n616
Speaking to Larry Moore's ideas on engineering and amp building: isn't it
like this?:
What the engineer tries for is a "perfect" technical amplified reproduction
of a signal at the outputs. What this apparently "reasonable" idea
overlooks is that it misses what we are trying to do altogether.
Think of photography (Slagle?): a "good" photograph isn't one that
perfectly "reproduces" reality. Clearly this is a very simplistic
expectation to have for photography (abandoned it seems very soon after
photography was invented). You just have to laugh at the barbarity of this
idea. So why do some insist on it (or at least are we unable to give it up)
for music "reproduction"?
If your standard for a photograph is repoduction, you just don't get what
photography is. Even medical photography (clearly here we are not talking
art here) what we are doing is using a techinque to let us see what we
cannot see with the eye by itself. What we see is a perspective. It shows
us somethig there that isn't there of us. This isn't reproduction.
Obviously there are ways that photography may be improved technically. We
can have improved articulation in various parts of the spectrum, detail in
shadow and in highlights, higher resolution of detail etc. But none of
these in any way is going to be able to convince us that the photograph
reproduces reality. All of these are tools one can draw on to produce
photographs, not to reproduce reality. Photographs may appear to have a
truth but this is disclosed only in the photograph itself. This is the case
for art as well as scientific photographs.
Why can't we grasp that audio techniques, like photography, do not aim to
reproduce reality? Music from machines is a different medium. If you want
real live music, play it. But isn't audio really "audiography"? If not
applying the standard of one to one correspondence to photography has
allowed photography to develop as an medium in which there are many
orientations of taste and different kinds of techniques (not to mention
good and bad taste all over the place), let us try to free ourselves from
restrictive view of what is going on and to allow audio similar freedom to
develop. In a basic way, audio is not a reproduction, it is an event of its
own kind. Not a reproduction, but a production. This is what the word
technology means. It is a technique or a skill that produces. Even playing
the violin is a techinque, but what is produced by the violin is not
soemthing that you can have by itself without the violin. Same with the
machines we like. Let's abandon the idea that our machine must give us "the
closest approach to the original sound" or the "absolute" sound because
this idea is a prison in which we enclose the technique using audio.
Mark
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end
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <Tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: Larry Moore's amplifier dreams
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 11:10:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n617
Mark Donen wrote:
> Speaking to Larry Moore's ideas on engineering and amp building: isn't it
> like this?:
>
> What the engineer tries for is a "perfect" technical amplified reproduction
> of a signal at the outputs. What this apparently "reasonable" idea
> overlooks is that it misses what we are trying to do altogether.
>
> Think of photography (Slagle?): a "good" photograph isn't one that
> perfectly "reproduces" reality. Clearly this is a very simplistic
> expectation to have for photography (abandoned it seems very soon after
> photography was invented). You just have to laugh at the barbarity of this
> idea. So why do some insist on it (or at least are we unable to give it up)
> for music "reproduction"?
Hi
Perhaps a better analogy would be to styles of painting or drawing as good photography is actually
two
different things mixed together. This is not a comment on the amplifier project however, anyone
actually doing something gets points in my book.
From the beginning of photography there has been a drive to eliminate all of the forms of optical
"distortion".
Fine grain film, compound, color corrected lenses and countless other developments have all been
implemented to make a more distortion free, more faithful image. Look at a good modern camera ther
e
are no examples I know of where a more "measurably distorted" engineering approach is used over a l
ess
distorted approach to solving the engineering problems unless governed by cost..
Even the Hubbell telescope needed corrective action when its mirror had too much "distortion" compar
ed
to "perfection".
On the other hand, take a very accurate high resolution tool like a good 4X5 or 8X10 camera in the
hands of an artist like the late Ansul Adams and you can get a work of Art. The artist imagines th
e
image, sets up the camera try's to use all the options available to make the best picture possible.
It
is his judgment in the composition and execution combined with an accurate, versatile tool and subj
ect
matter that makes a winning photo.
Here too is an example of resolution. Generally the larger the film size, the greater the resolution
,
seeing a giant format (I think it was 36 in by 36 in film) polaroid photo, (except for being at opti
cal
infinity and thus not 3D) would be passable as reality I think if presented properly.
>
>
> If your standard for a photograph is repoduction, you just don't get what
> photography is. Even medical photography (clearly here we are not talking
> art here) what we are doing is using a techinque to let us see what we
> cannot see with the eye by itself. What we see is a perspective. It shows
> us somethig there that isn't there of us. This isn't reproduction.
Seeing what the eye can't see your self first hand is technically called "imaging" and is not a good
analogy as what your trying see is not visible to the eye normally. In a reproduction system one is
trying to reproduce the performance as faithfully as possible, not to hear things that would not ha
ve
been audible if present at the original performance or recording session..
>
>
> Obviously there are ways that photography may be improved technically. We
> can have improved articulation in various parts of the spectrum, detail in
> shadow and in highlights, higher resolution of detail etc. But none of
> these in any way is going to be able to convince us that the photograph
> reproduces reality. All of these are tools one can draw on to produce
> photographs, not to reproduce reality. Photographs may appear to have a
> truth but this is disclosed only in the photograph itself. This is the case
> for art as well as scientific photographs.
Like sound reproduction, visual reproduction is still not the real thing but it is that way, not by
choice but by the limits on technical accuracy and cost.
>
>
> Why can't we grasp that audio techniques, like photography, do not aim to
> reproduce reality? Music from machines is a different medium. If you want
> real live music, play it. But isn't audio really "audiography"? If not
> applying the standard of one to one correspondence to photography has
> allowed photography to develop as an medium in which there are many
> orientations of taste and different kinds of techniques (not to mention
> good and bad taste all over the place), let us try to free ourselves from
> restrictive view of what is going on and to allow audio similar freedom to
> develop. In a basic way, audio is not a reproduction, it is an event of its
> own kind. Not a reproduction, but a production. This is what the word
> technology means. It is a technique or a skill that produces. Even playing
> the violin is a techinque, but what is produced by the violin is not
> soemthing that you can have by itself without the violin. Same with the
> machines we like. Let's abandon the idea that our machine must give us "the
> closest approach to the original sound" or the "absolute" sound because
> this idea is a prison in which we enclose the technique using audio.
Good goals but.... the problem is that it is too easy to modify a speaker or electronic gear and "he
ar"
a subjective improvement.
In every single case I have heard where an audible improvement is made AND there is an apparent
reduction in electronic accuracy (disregarding absolute levels, an increased difference between the
input signal and output signal), one will also be able to find other program material where the same
change causes an audible reduction in quality.
In other words, adding some type of anomalous behavior can often make some things sound better and s
ome
things sound worse. I suppose one can well pursue this to the Nth degree with say a guitar amplifie
r
but doing this to a reproducer system that will have a variety of signal types, it seems to me they
will
likely also have to develop musical taste which compliments the coloration's they have developed,
keeping only the "sweet sounding stuff" and throwing out the now horrid.
Taking the example of styles of painting and drawing and you have a case where a charcoal caricature
may
well do a better job capturing a persons "essence" than a photo or realistic painting.
Unfortunately once you have stepped away from Photo realism towards the charcoal caricature, you ha
ve
applied that style to every thing you look at and some things will not benefit.
On the other hand, if one wants whatever it is to do all jobs equally well, then the output signal h
as
to be as close as possible to the input signal (except for level) I.E. the same waveshape.
To make exactly the same wave shape is a daunting task but at least it is a non subjective target yo
u
can aim at while designing / building.
By this point, many of the "new age approach" types would have stopped reading if they read it at al
l
after seeing my name, the technical or engineering view is not popular in this crowd, but to those s
till
reading I would say this.
In order to use measurements to guide you, you must learn more about them than the popular magazines
can
tell you.
The publications are largely just vehicles for the advertisers who want you to buy there stuff.
As a result nearly all magazines are "upbeat" and give all products at least a decent review, even w
hen
you don't advertise at all, like our review of the ContraBass in wide screen review for example .
There job is to promote sales for the industry and specifically the advertisers, not to give an accu
rate
assessment of reality.
They are on the whole a bad place to learn the technical side of things as so much is BS mixed with
engineering terms, they (along with a few engineers) have literally given the engineering approach a
black eye..
THD percentage measurements for example don't tell you anything about sound quality, but if you can
look at the spectrum, you can develop a good feel for what kinds of distributions and levels sound l
ike
what.
Frequency response graphs for electronics or speakers don't tell you what something sounds like eith
er
but if you do enough of them, you get a feel for what kinds of sounds are caused by what kinds of cu
rve
shapes.
Measuring the speaker outside or anechoically reveals what the speaker actually does but what it doe
s in
your room is another matter, (often shocking) measure at the listening position and compare to outsi
de
to see how much the room does and why dispersion/ reflections property's are so important in govern
ing
a speakers "in room" sound..
For speakers, if your going to measure them to help the development process, use a system which meas
ures
Time or acoustic phase as well. Odd that since phase governs if two signals add entirely or cancel
entirely or are somewhere in between it is usually ignored in speaker design, simple polarity is no
t
enough.. Speakers are many orders of magnitude less accurate in "Time" than electronics so this dom
ain
should be included.
Measurements are at there strongest when you have your own knowledge base to correlate what your
measuring to what your hearing and are at there weakest when used by marketers to "sell" products
Back to work
Tom
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: Larry Moore's amplifier dreams
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:15:55 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n617