Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 2
=========================================================================
From: "Multi-Volti Devices" <multi-volti@softhouse.com>
Subject: [JN] M4 iron
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:34:57 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n204
Could someone please tell me if M4 is a commonly available material in EI
laminations, and if it is a steel or a nickel material?
I can easily get M6 and some other thinner higher performance (or at least
cost) materials, but they have proprietary names that do not allude to the
suggestion that M4 has lower losses than M6 (maybe I'm jumping to
comclusions because the '6' in M6 is a reference to it's losses.)
I haven't looked very hard yet for nickel in EI, but my initial eforts were
thwarted. C-core in nickel, no problem, but haven't found Ni in the sizes I
wanted (EI 125)
Thanks
Murray
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] M4 iron
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 99 10:00:02 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n204
Murray,
>Could someone please tell me if M4 is a commonly available material in EI
>laminations, and if it is a steel or a nickel material?
M4 is common steel and available for a premium. Also M2 and M3, though
harder to use because of it's softness.
>I haven't looked very hard yet for nickel in EI, but my initial eforts were
>thwarted. C-core in nickel, no problem, but haven't found Ni in the sizes I
>wanted (EI 125)
Nickel is readily avialble in EI form. But why use it unless you are
doing parafeed?
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com>
Subject: [JN] Mac CAD software
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:25:02 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n609
Can anybody recommend a decent mid-grade CAD program for Mac? Need to
generate some .dxf files for metal work.
Any suggestions appreciated. Even my Mac man, Gordon Rankin, couldn't
come up with a worthy path.
Thanks.
Joe "of Joenet Fame"
=========================================================================
From: "James Thompson" <jthompso@yazaki-na.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Mac CAD software
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:40:09 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n609
Hey Joe,
Pick up a "copy" of Autocad 13 or 14. It's pretty complex but good for basic work also. I use it to
export .dxf files to a graphics plotter for making large labels for equipment. I don't know if they
make a Mac version.
Jim
>>> Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com> 07/25/00 09:25PM >>>
Can anybody recommend a decent mid-grade CAD program for Mac? Need to
generate some .dxf files for metal work.
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Mac CAD software
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:24:43 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n610
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:40:09 -0400, James Thompson
<jthompso@yazaki-na.com> wrote:
> I don't know if they make a Mac version.
Nope
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: Mac CAD software
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:14:24 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n610
>I don't know if MiniCad / VectorWorks qualifies as a mid-range
>program, but certainly the recent versions do have some dxf.
>capabilities.
All vesions of MiniCad i've used (going back a long way) have dxf
export/import. From version 7 on (current is 8.5) also support DWG in/out.
BTW: this is WAY better software than AutoCAD, and the cost differential is
such that you have enuff money left-over vis-a-vis buying AutoCAD that you
can buy a modest PowerMac to run it on. Over 50% of the architects in our
fair city use this software -- the local IBM building was architected on
Macs using a very early version of MiniCad.
The Mini part dates from an era when there were mini-computers and the name
was intended to signify mini-computer power on a micro-computer. The name
is no longer germain so they have changed the name to VectorWorks.
>For pure format conversions, there is also CADMover.
CADMover is a very specialized and sometimes finiky sw and i recommend it
only if you have a task to achieve that it can really do and will pay for
it on that single job.
dave
______________________
Moore Associates
250 386 7370
mostly Macintosh
service oriented VAR
=========================================================================
From: Tim Reese <tgrmail@nmr.MGH.harvard.EDU>
Subject: Re: [JN] Mac CAD software
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:09:13 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n610
Joe wrote
>Can anybody recommend a decent mid-grade CAD program for Mac? Need to
>generate some .dxf files for metal work.
>
>Any suggestions appreciated. Even my Mac man, Gordon Rankin, couldn't
>come up with a worthy path.
No personal experience with these products, but try Douglas Electronics
http://www.douglas.com/services/manufacturing/sheetmetal.html
which offers a freeware layout program and a $200 dxf converter utility.
I will download the freeware and try it out...
hth tr
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.nmr.MGH.harvard.edu/~reese MRI, tube audio, reptiles
Tim Reese, MGH NMR Center reese@nmr.MGH.harvard.edu
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Mac CAD software
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:40:17 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n610
James suggests:
>>> Pick up a "copy" of Autocad 13 or 14. It's pretty complex but good for
basic work also. I use it to export .dxf files to a graphics plotter for
making large labels for equipment. I don't know if they make a Mac
version<<<
They used to, and IMO they suck! AutoCad is NOT a user friendly pgm by any
stretch of the imagination, and it was never a commercial success ported
over to the Mac, when used by typically right brained Mac users.
Like what a hideous non intuitive, non Mac p
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Mac CAD software
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:41:16 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n610
James suggests:
>>> Pick up a "copy" of Autocad 13 or 14. It's pretty complex but good for
basic work also. I use it to export .dxf files to a graphics plotter for
making large labels for equipment. I don't know if they make a Mac
version<<<
They used to, and IMO they suck! AutoCad is NOT a user friendly pgm by any
stretch of the imagination, and it was never a commercial success ported
over to the Mac, when used by typically right brained Mac users.
Like what a hideous non intuitive, non Mac pgm! It is a lession in how NOT
to make a Mac pgm...the company dropped the Mac versions after AutoCAD 13
or so, and I say "Who cares?"
There is also TurboCAD for Mac, another PC portover that got really good
reviews as it is apparently very powerful, and was really cheap. It may be
great for solid left-brainers, but I tossed it on that pile in the back
room after a frustrating day of trying...
I'd say to go with DaveD's advice to use MiniCAD - it's 100% Mac intended,
and while a very serious pgm is almost as easy to learn (at least it's
basics) as is ClarisCAD - which is the kindergarten pgm I use for my
metalwork and schematics, but has no fancy export file formats.
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: connlyra@gol.com
Subject: [JN] Re: Mac CAD software
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:17:20 +0900
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n610
Joe,
>Can anybody recommend a decent mid-grade CAD program for Mac? Need
>to generate some .dxf files for metal work.<
I don't know if MiniCad / VectorWorks qualifies as a mid-range
program, but certainly the recent versions do have some dxf.
capabilities.
For pure format conversions, there is also CADMover.
jonathan carr
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Mac EDA software list
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:54:09 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n331
>1. I consistently hear some very nice things about Beige Bag (B2
>Spice and B2 Logic) from a number of people.
I have this and it works nicely. The schematic editor UI could use some
real polishing
6. Mac-the-Scope. I have this program but haven't really given it the
exercise it is due. The original market was to a large extent medical &
speech therapy. I have been talking to him about features for the audio
community. V3 (anyday now) has some enhancements in this direction and i
think after AES he sees a whole new vertical market. ie keep your eye on
this one.
One thing i can say is that it runs really nicely on my PowerBook which
means i have a portable, battery powered measuring tool
>Overall, however, I find that there is a better choice of EDA
>software on the PC than on the Mac (there are some new Linux packages
>that may be worth looking into - http://www.geda.seul.org/ ).
One hopes that with the release of OS X (January?) we will see UNIX based
software being ported to the new UNIX based MacOS (OS X should very quickly
become the UNIX with the largest installed base)
__________________
Transmission Line Speaker Page
http://139.142.118.15/sites/diy
=========================================================================
From: connlyra@gol.com
Subject: [JN] Mac EDA software list
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:16:52 +0900
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n331
Hi all,
For those who prefer to use a Mac for most of their computing work
and would also like to use it for electronic design work (schematic
capture, device modeling, circuit simulation, pcb layout, finline
simulation etc), Mac Central currently has an article on Macintosh
EDA software:
http://www.maccentral.com/news/9911/12.migrationkit.shtml
Also, if there is a software package which you use and which is not
mentioned at the above url, I assume that Mac Central would like to
know about it.
Of the packages mentioned:
1. I consistently hear some very nice things about Beige Bag (B2
Spice and B2 Logic) from a number of people.
2. EWB is quite easy to use (especially the schematic capture module)
and very good for monitoring current and voltage levels but otherwise
not especially flexible, powerful nor accurate (at least, not in my
hands).
3. The full version of MicroCap V is ok overall to use but given what
it can do, pricey (I have not used the student edition nor version
IV).
4. Spice is the grandaddy of all but a regal PITA to learn and use.
5. PSpice is perhaps the most flexible and powerful overall but has a
steep learning curve (and I wish its schematic editor were as easy to
use as EWB).
Overall, however, I find that there is a better choice of EDA
software on the PC than on the Mac (there are some new Linux packages
that may be worth looking into - http://www.geda.seul.org/ ).
I currently do most of my work on Win98 or NT4 using PSpice 5.2 or
7.1 (the built-in schematic capture module has been replaced with
ECS, plus TextPad 3.2 for netlist editing - much better than NotePad
or WordPad) and Protel98 (pretty good for pcb layouts, so-so for
schematic editing, and downright lousy at simulation) - although I
sometimes use MicroCap or EWB when I just want quick results and the
circuit is simple.
Hope this helps
jc
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: [JN] Mac software
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:40:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n610
Hi All,
While talking about Mac pgms - anyone out there got a copy of that
Mac pgm that calculates the optimum position for a speaker in a room?
Off line replies please. Will trade...
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pj@bottlehead.com>
Subject: Re: [JN]Madness ... I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 10:24:12 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n976
All-
Sorry, but I can't absorb this stuff anymore. I am leaving this
list for a while.
Peace and love,
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN]Madness ... I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:50:08 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n977
I'm with you Paul -- I'm outta here.....
You all should be ashamed of yourselves....and for those of you who don't
know you should be ashamed....I pity you.....
Peace,
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Joppa" <pj@bottlehead.com>
To: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [JN]Madness ... I quit
> All-
>
> Sorry, but I can't absorb this stuff anymore. I am leaving this
> list for a while.
>
> Peace and love,
> -Paul Joppa
>
=========================================================================
From: Carter Hendricks <carter@i1.net>
Subject: Re: [JN]Madness ... I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:03:40 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n977
Paul wrote:
>
> Sorry, but I can't absorb this stuff anymore.
I missed most of the braking dogs noise by
using filters. Fun! when mail from a
barking dog arrives, it is automatically
deleted. Poof! I think there are tools in
every mail program to filter incoming messages.
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: "Bill Sadler" <sadlerb@mweb.co.za>
Subject: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:23:42 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n971
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Hello Joes
I can't believe some of the statements being made on the list especially =
the anti-Israel sentiment, all of this born out of a total ignorance of =
the history of the land of Israel, or is it just anti-American and =
anti-any body who is seen to be friendly with the US.
I am not Jewish or have any links to the Jewish people so I have no axe =
to grind in favour of anybody other than to stand up for the truth. And =
I submit below an extract from the letters of Dr Martin Luther King Jr =
(New York, 1971) pp 234-235.=20
FROM MARTIN LUTHER KING JR "LETTER TO AN ANTI-ZIONIST FRIEND" (AUG =
1967)
"anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a =
blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know =
also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic (racist) and ever =
will be so.
"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and =
ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The =
Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing =
Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the =
Roman tyrant, the same Roman who cruelly murdered Our Lord.. Driven =
from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wonder the globe, =
the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant =
happened to rule over them.
"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of =
tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have =
begged, pleaded, requested - demanded the recognition and realization of =
our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own =
country.
"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right =
of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish people =
to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of goodwill exult in =
the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy =
to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing =
less.
"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a =
fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and =
freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination =
against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is =
anti-Semitism.
The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The =
times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred =
of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek =
new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new =
masquerade' He does not hate the Jews, he is just anti-Zionist'
"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate anti-Semitism, I know you =
feel as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and revulsion for racism, =
prejudice and discrimination. But I know you have been misled as others =
have been - into thinking you can be anti-Zionist and yet remain true to =
these heartfelt principles that you and I share. Let my words echo in =
the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews =
- - make no mistake about it."
America has recognized the right of the Jewish people to return to their =
homeland and is therefore supporting them in this endeavor even if it =
means displacing some Arabs who opportunistically moved into Israel when =
the Jews where kicked out.
Bill
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Hello =
Joes</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can't believe some of the statements =
being made=20
on the list especially the anti-Israel sentiment, all of this born out =
of a=20
total ignorance of the history of the land of Israel, or is it just=20
anti-American and anti-any body who is seen to be friendly with the=20
US.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am not Jewish or have any links to=20
the Jewish people so I have no axe to grind in favour of =
anybody other=20
than to stand up for the truth. And I submit below an extract from the =
letters=20
of Dr Martin Luther King Jr (New York, 1971) pp =
234-235.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>FROM MARTIN LUTHER KING =
JR "LETTER TO=20
AN ANTI-ZIONIST FRIEND" (AUG 1967)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"anti-Semitism, the hatred of the =
Jewish people,=20
has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are =
in full=20
agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently=20
anti-Semitic (racist) and ever will be so.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Why is this? You know that =
Zionism is=20
nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to =
live in=20
their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once=20
enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From =
this they=20
were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Roman who cruelly murdered =
Our=20
Lord.. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced =
to wonder=20
the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of =
whichever=20
tyrant happened to rule over them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"The Negro people, my friend, know what =
it is to=20
suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. =
Our=20
brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested - demanded the =
recognition=20
and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own =
sovereignty=20
in our own country.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"How easy it should be, for anyone who =
holds dear=20
this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the =
right of=20
the Jewish people to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men =
of=20
goodwill exult in the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People =
should=20
return in joy to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, =
nothing=20
more, nothing less.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"And what is anti-Zionist? It is =
the denial=20
to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the =
people=20
of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is =
discrimination=20
against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is=20
anti-Semitism.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The anti-Semite rejoices at any =
opportunity to vent=20
his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to =
proclaim=20
openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite =
must=20
constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must =
revel in=20
the new masquerade' He does not hate the Jews, he is just=20
anti-Zionist'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"My friend, I do not accuse you of =
deliberate=20
anti-Semitism, I know you feel as I do, a deep love of truth and justice =
and=20
revulsion for racism, prejudice and discrimination. But I know you =
have=20
been misled as others have been - into thinking you can be anti-Zionist =
and yet=20
remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share. =
Let my=20
words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize =
Zionism, they=20
mean Jews - make no mistake about it."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>America has recognized the right of the =
Jewish=20
people to return to their homeland and is therefore supporting them in =
this=20
endeavor even if it means displacing some Arabs who opportunistically =
moved into=20
Israel when the Jews where kicked out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bill</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:31:02 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n972
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Bill Sadler wrote:
> Hello Joes
>
> I can't believe some of the statements being made on the list
> especially the anti-Israel sentiment, all of this born out of a total
> ignorance of the history of the land of Israel, or is it just
> anti-American and anti-any body who is seen to be friendly with the
> US. I am not Jewish or have any links to the Jewish people so I have
> no axe to grind in favour of anybody other than to stand up for the
> truth. And I submit below an extract from the letters of Dr Martin
> Luther King Jr (New York, 1971) pp 234-235.
One can find objection to the conduct and policies of Israel without being
anti-Semitic. Ascribing prejudice to anyone who would criticize either
Israel or those who abet its behavior is a familiar ad hominem tactic that
avoids considering the merits of an argument by attacking its presenter.
It was a trick used to stifle dissent from the capitalist/corporate course
America set for itself in the wake of the conquest of the Great Depression
of the thirties, which we shot our way out of in WWII via deficit
spending. The trick imploded when Senator Joseph McCarthy unwittingly
revealed it for what it is. It is a means simply of avoiding scrutiny.
I note, in passing, that so trite and mantra-like has the accusation
become that its users seem not to realize that the very Arabs demoted to
the status of scabs on the body politic of Israel are themselves Semites,
as are most of the residents of the Levant.
But let us leave aside the issue of the absolute virtue of Israel. The
point I attempted to make yesterday is that America is widely perceived by
Arab peoples as holding them to severe standards of conduct and exempting
the state of Israel not just from examination but more importantly from
accountability. I could believe their belief completely erroneous, but it
would not change their perception, nor more importantly their increasing
desperation after half a century of American sponsorship of Israel that
Arab peoples will not receive justice from us, particularly the
disenfranchised Palestinian Arabs. If payment for a bill for the
pro-Israeli policies of America is to be exacted by Arabic terrorists, it
may be appropriate in a democracy for us to undertake a full and fair
debate.
I wish not one more person to die. I regret the deaths of Palestinian,
Jew, Arab, or American. I would hope to break the endless cycle of
violence by calm examination rather than sloganeering, rabble-rousing, or
jingoism. I hold it as self-evident that all men are equal and all men
deserve the same justice.
If accountability is to be the order of the day, I want all parties
subjected to scrutiny. That means, perhaps, holding America accountable
for sanctioning injustice among those peoples who feel so desperate about
their plight that they would commit suicide in order either to gain some
measure of revenge, or on higher moral ground, to shock their tormentors
into re-examining their own conduct.
Perhaps you can explain why Israel should be exempted from criticism or
discussion.
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <triodelover@home.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:48:34 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n972
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Bill,
Thanks for reminding us of the words of a great American. Dr King is =
right. But I would suggest that you duck-and-cover, for those Americans =
expressing anti-Zionist sentiments on this list will not be pleased with =
your choice of messenger.
Phil
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bill Sadler=20
To: Joe Net=20
Sent: Friday, 14 September, 2001 16.23
Subject: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Hello Joes
I can't believe some of the statements being made on the list =
especially the anti-Israel sentiment, all of this born out of a total =
ignorance of the history of the land of Israel, or is it just =
anti-American and anti-any body who is seen to be friendly with the US.
I am not Jewish or have any links to the Jewish people so I have no =
axe to grind in favour of anybody other than to stand up for the truth. =
And I submit below an extract from the letters of Dr Martin Luther King =
Jr (New York, 1971) pp 234-235.=20
FROM MARTIN LUTHER KING JR "LETTER TO AN ANTI-ZIONIST FRIEND" (AUG =
1967)
"anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains =
a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So =
know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic (racist) and =
ever will be so.
"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream =
and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The =
Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing =
Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the =
Roman tyrant, the same Roman who cruelly murdered Our Lord.. Driven =
from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wonder the globe, =
the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant =
happened to rule over them.
"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of =
tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have =
begged, pleaded, requested - demanded the recognition and realization of =
our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own =
country.
"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable =
right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish =
people to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of goodwill =
exult in the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People should return =
in joy to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, nothing more, =
nothing less.
"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a =
fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and =
freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination =
against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is =
anti-Semitism.
The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The =
times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred =
of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek =
new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new =
masquerade' He does not hate the Jews, he is just anti-Zionist'
"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate anti-Semitism, I know =
you feel as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and revulsion for =
racism, prejudice and discrimination. But I know you have been misled =
as others have been - into thinking you can be anti-Zionist and yet =
remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share. Let my =
words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, =
they mean Jews - make no mistake about it."
America has recognized the right of the Jewish people to return to =
their homeland and is therefore supporting them in this endeavor even if =
it means displacing some Arabs who opportunistically moved into Israel =
when the Jews where kicked out.
Bill
- ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C13D3D.17AD0940
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for reminding us of the words of =
a great=20
American. Dr King is right. But I would suggest that you=20
duck-and-cover, for those Americans expressing anti-Zionist sentiments =
on this=20
list will not be pleased with your choice of messenger.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Phil</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dsadlerb@mweb.co.za href=3D"mailto:sadlerb@mweb.co.za">Bill =
Sadler</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com=20
href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com">Joe Net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 14 September, =
2001=20
16.23</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [JN] re: Madness on =
the Joe=20
List</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Hello =
Joes</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can't believe some of the =
statements being made=20
on the list especially the anti-Israel sentiment, all of this born out =
of a=20
total ignorance of the history of the land of Israel, or is it just=20
anti-American and anti-any body who is seen to be friendly with the=20
US.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am not Jewish or have any links to=20
the Jewish people so I have no axe to grind in favour of =
anybody=20
other than to stand up for the truth. And I submit below an extract =
from the=20
letters of Dr Martin Luther King Jr (New York, 1971) pp=20
234-235.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>FROM MARTIN LUTHER KING =
JR "LETTER=20
TO AN ANTI-ZIONIST FRIEND" (AUG 1967)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"anti-Semitism, the hatred of the =
Jewish people,=20
has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we =
are in=20
full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is =
inherently=20
anti-Semitic (racist) and ever will be so.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Why is this? You know that =
Zionism is=20
nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning =
to live=20
in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, =
once=20
enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From =
this=20
they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Roman who cruelly =
murdered=20
Our Lord.. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, =
forced to=20
wonder the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash =
of=20
whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"The Negro people, my friend, know =
what it is to=20
suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. =
Our=20
brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested - demanded the =
recognition=20
and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own =
sovereignty=20
in our own country.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"How easy it should be, for anyone =
who holds dear=20
this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the =
right of=20
the Jewish people to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All =
men of=20
goodwill exult in the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People =
should=20
return in joy to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, =
nothing=20
more, nothing less.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"And what is anti-Zionist? It =
is the denial=20
to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for =
the=20
people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It =
is=20
discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. =
In short,=20
it is anti-Semitism.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The anti-Semite rejoices at any =
opportunity to=20
vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, =
to=20
proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the=20
anti-Semite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his =
poison. =20
How he must revel in the new masquerade' He does not hate the =
Jews, he=20
is just anti-Zionist'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"My friend, I do not accuse you of =
deliberate=20
anti-Semitism, I know you feel as I do, a deep love of truth and =
justice and=20
revulsion for racism, prejudice and discrimination. But I know =
you have=20
been misled as others have been - into thinking you can be =
anti-Zionist and=20
yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I =
share. Let=20
my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize =
Zionism,=20
they mean Jews - make no mistake about it."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>America has recognized the right of =
the Jewish=20
people to return to their homeland and is therefore supporting them in =
this=20
endeavor even if it means displacing some Arabs who opportunistically =
moved=20
into Israel when the Jews where kicked out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Bill</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C13D3D.17AD0940--
=========================================================================
From: ToobWiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:47:02 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n972
In a message dated 09/14/2001 5:<BR35:<BR10 PM
Eastern Daylight , dcp@selway.umt.edu writes:> One can find objection to the
conduct and policies of Israel without being
> anti-Semitic.
Bravo Paul,
for this and your very excellent followon statements. Please read my upcoming
post for information that will definitely help, if researched and accepted,
to further the "full and fari debate" that is long overdue.
I was treated some years ago to a 70-mile taxi ride the the AbuDhabi airport
with a Palestinian taxi driver. Believe me, I came home and did grinding
research into the history of the Levant as well as a good deal of geneology.
Cheers/Don cArron
=========================================================================
From: "Michael D. Schleif" <mds@helices.org>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:44:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n973
> Bill Sadler wrote:
>
> America has recognized the right of the Jewish people to return to
> their homeland and is therefore supporting them in this endeavor even
> if it means displacing some Arabs who opportunistically moved into
> Israel when the Jews where kicked out.
It is exactly this sentiment -- noticeably *lacking* from Dr. King's
letters -- that maybe said to be the source of our current trauma.
No, I do not promote any anti-ism -- none. Never have, never will.
However, your use of the phrase ``opportunistically'' draws interesting
parallels to the usurpation of the Americas several hundred years ago.
Or, the Imperialization of much of Asia by certain western europeans
during similar times.
Also, notice that that land never stood vacant, so it is difficult for
me to understand how a people already there ``opportunistically moved
into'' it ???
Is it possible that that land -- or any land, does it matter? -- might
support multiple peoples? To wit, take a long hard look at our own
melting pots and the variety of peoples who, today, call themselves
Americans . . .
- --
Best Regards,
mds
mds resource
888.250.3987
Dare to fix things before they break . . .
Our capacity for understanding is inversely proportional to how much we
think we know. The more I know, the more I know I don't know . . .
=========================================================================
From: Phil <tube@jump.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:32:37 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n973
Phil Sieg wrote:
> Bill, Thanks for reminding us of the words of a great American. Dr
> King is right. But I would suggest that you duck-and-cover, for those
> Americans expressing anti-Zionist sentiments on this list will not be
> pleased with your choice of messenger. Phil
Phil,
So anybody who criticizes the *state* of Israel automatically hates
blacks, Jews, etc.? I had some Iranian roomates in the late 70's,
and while some of them hated the state of America, they did not hate
Americans at all. You keep labeling as racist anyone who thinks Israel
has done bad things. Do you really think that this "proves" that their
statements about Israel are incorrect?
I have to agree with Don, Doug, and others that while you obviously
have a very good mind, you insist on trying to win arguments by
declaring the other person to be racist, evil, a monster, etc. If Adolf
Hitler said that 2 + 2 = 4, would it really be necessary to get a new
system of arithmetic? Okay, they are all evil racist monsters. Now,
getting back to the subject, is what they said true or false?
I hate to say really bad things about you, but you remind me very
much of myself. When I was in high school, I said to the girl next
to me, "What am I, a philosopher, doing here in a math class?" She
looked at me for a minute, and then said, "No Phil, you're no
philosopher. Because a philosopher has to look at everything equally,
and you cut to shreds anyone who disagrees with you." Very few
weeks have gone by in the last 26 years, when I have not thought
of those words.
Maybe it's something about the name, "Phil"? But go ahead, just for
my amusement, show all of us your chains, prove that everything I
have said here is wrong ...
... by sending an email in which you cut me to shreds.
Need-a-new-name Phil
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <triodelover@home.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:23:49 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n973
Phil,
All I can say is that you really haven't read what I have written. Try to
take in all I say and eschew the politically correct editing. My POV is far
different from your representation. An open mind is an important tool in
these times.
Phil
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil" <tube@jump.net>
Cc: "Joe Net" <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Friday, 14 September, 2001 19.32
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
> Phil Sieg wrote:
>
> > Bill, Thanks for reminding us of the words of a great American. Dr
> > King is right. But I would suggest that you duck-and-cover, for those
> > Americans expressing anti-Zionist sentiments on this list will not be
> > pleased with your choice of messenger. Phil
>
> Phil,
>
> So anybody who criticizes the *state* of Israel automatically hates
> blacks, Jews, etc.? I had some Iranian roomates in the late 70's,
> and while some of them hated the state of America, they did not hate
> Americans at all. You keep labeling as racist anyone who thinks Israel
> has done bad things. Do you really think that this "proves" that their
> statements about Israel are incorrect?
>
> I have to agree with Don, Doug, and others that while you obviously
> have a very good mind, you insist on trying to win arguments by
> declaring the other person to be racist, evil, a monster, etc. If Adolf
> Hitler said that 2 + 2 = 4, would it really be necessary to get a new
> system of arithmetic? Okay, they are all evil racist monsters. Now,
> getting back to the subject, is what they said true or false?
>
> I hate to say really bad things about you, but you remind me very
> much of myself. When I was in high school, I said to the girl next
> to me, "What am I, a philosopher, doing here in a math class?" She
> looked at me for a minute, and then said, "No Phil, you're no
> philosopher. Because a philosopher has to look at everything equally,
> and you cut to shreds anyone who disagrees with you." Very few
> weeks have gone by in the last 26 years, when I have not thought
> of those words.
>
> Maybe it's something about the name, "Phil"? But go ahead, just for
> my amusement, show all of us your chains, prove that everything I
> have said here is wrong ...
> ... by sending an email in which you cut me to shreds.
>
> Need-a-new-name Phil
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:19:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n974
- --------------3055E312E0F2C1C99221D1BC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Martin Luther King, Jr??? Didn't I read somewhere about his ties with
Communism...or was I 'having a dream'.
Bill Sadler wrote:
> Hello Joes I can't believe some of the statements being made on the
> list especially the anti-Israel sentiment, all of this born out of a
> total ignorance of the history of the land of Israel, or is it just
> anti-American and anti-any body who is seen to be friendly with the
> US.I am not Jewish or have any links to the Jewish people so I have no
> axe to grind in favour of anybody other than to stand up for the
> truth. And I submit below an extract from the letters of Dr Martin
> Luther King Jr (New York, 1971) pp 234-235. FROM MARTIN LUTHER KING
> JR "LETTER TO AN ANTI-ZIONIST FRIEND" (AUG 1967) "anti-Semitism, the
> hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul
> of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this:
> anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic (racist) and ever will be
> so. "Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the
> dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own
> land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a
> flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were
> expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Roman who cruelly murdered Our
> Lord.. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to
> wonder the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash
> of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them. "The Negro people, my
> friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers
> not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded,
> requested - demanded the recognition and realization of our inborn
> right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own
> country. "How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this
> inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right
> of the Jewish people to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men
> of goodwill exult in the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People
> should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land. This is
> Zionism, nothing more, nothing less."And what is anti-Zionist? It is
> the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly
> claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of
> the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they
> are Jews. In short, it is anti-Semitism. The anti-Semite rejoices at
> any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular,
> in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the
> case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek new forms and forums for
> his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade' He does not
> hate the Jews, he is just anti-Zionist'"My friend, I do not accuse you
> of deliberate anti-Semitism, I know you feel as I do, a deep love of
> truth and justice and revulsion for racism, prejudice and
> discrimination. But I know you have been misled as others have been -
> into thinking you can be anti-Zionist and yet remain true to these
> heartfelt principles that you and I share. Let my words echo in the
> depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -
> make no mistake about it." America has recognized the right of the
> Jewish people to return to their homeland and is therefore supporting
> them in this endeavor even if it means displacing some Arabs who
> opportunistically moved into Israel when the Jews where kicked
> out. Bill
- --------------3055E312E0F2C1C99221D1BC
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Martin Luther King, Jr??? Didn't I read somewhere about his ties
with Communism...or was I 'having a dream'.
<p>Bill Sadler wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<b><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Hello
Joes</font></font></b> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I can't believe
some of the statements being made on the list especially the anti-Israel
sentiment, all of this born out of a total ignorance of the history of
the land of Israel, or is it just anti-American and anti-any body who is
seen to be friendly with the US.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
am not Jewish or have any links to the Jewish people so I have no axe to
grind in favour of anybody other than to stand up for the truth. And I
submit below an extract from the letters of Dr Martin Luther King Jr (New
York, 1971) pp 234-235.</font></font> <b><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>FROM
MARTIN LUTHER KING JR "LETTER TO AN ANTI-ZIONIST FRIEND" (AUG
1967)</font></font></b> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>"anti-Semitism,
the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul
of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also
this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic (racist) and ever will
be so.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>"Why is this?
You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish
people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the
Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the
Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the
same Roman who cruelly murdered Our Lord.. Driven from their homeland,
their nation in ashes, forced to wonder the globe, the Jewish people time
and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.</font></font> <font
face="Arial"><font size=-1>"The
Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny
under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged,
pleaded, requested - demanded the recognition and realization of our inborn
right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.</font></font> <font face="
Arial"><font size=-1>"How
easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of
all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish people to
live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of goodwill exult in
the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy
to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing
less.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>"And what is anti-Zionist?
It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly
claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the
Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews.
In short, it is anti-Semitism.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>The
anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times
have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the
Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek new
forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade'
He does not hate the Jews, he is just anti-Zionist'</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>"M
y
friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate anti-Semitism, I know you feel
as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and revulsion for racism, prejudice
and discrimination. But I know you have been misled as others have
been - into thinking you can be anti-Zionist and yet remain true to these
heartfelt principles that you and I share. Let my words echo in the
depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews
- - make no mistake about it."</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>America
has recognized the right of the Jewish people to return to their homeland
and is therefore supporting them in this endeavor even if it means displacing
some Arabs who opportunistically moved into Israel when the Jews where
kicked out.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bill</font></font></blockquote
>
</body>
</html>
- --------------3055E312E0F2C1C99221D1BC--
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 02:15:40 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n974
Oh Bob, don't you just WISH you could suspend the 1st Amendment on people 'like
me'.
BobC wrote:
> Please stop your bullshit! Things are bad enough already. Go iron your sheet
> and find something to sell on Ebay!...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Van Osdell
> To: Bill Sadler
> Cc: Joe Net
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
>
> Martin Luther King, Jr??? Didn't I read somewhere about his ties with
> Communism...or was I 'having a dream'.
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <triodelover@home.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 10:00:18 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n974
Steve,
I don't and I doubt Bob does either. But defending your right to spout
bilge doesn't mean we have to like listening to it.
Phil
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Van Osdell" <svanos@queencity.com>
To: "BobC" <bobcx@nyc.rr.com>; "Joe List" <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Saturday, 15 September, 2001 02.15
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
> Oh Bob, don't you just WISH you could suspend the 1st Amendment on people
'like
> me'.
>
> BobC wrote:
>
> > Please stop your bullshit! Things are bad enough already. Go iron your
sheet
> > and find something to sell on Ebay!...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steve Van Osdell
> > To: Bill Sadler
> > Cc: Joe Net
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
> >
> > Martin Luther King, Jr??? Didn't I read somewhere about his ties with
> > Communism...or was I 'having a dream'.
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "BobC" <bobcx@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 01:56:09 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n974
Please stop your bullshit! Things are bad enough already. Go iron your sheet
and find something to sell on Ebay!...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Van Osdell
To: Bill Sadler
Cc: Joe Net
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] re: Madness on the Joe List
Martin Luther King, Jr??? Didn't I read somewhere about his ties with
Communism...or was I 'having a dream'.
=========================================================================
From: ToobWiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN]Madness on the Joe List: now a little history
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:47:09 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n972
In a message dated 09/14/2001 4:<BR31:<BR58 PM
Eastern Daylight , sadlerb@mweb.co.za writes:> I can't believe some of the
statements being made on the list especially the
> anti-Israel sentiment, all of this born out of a total ignorance of the
> history of the land of Israel, or is it just anti-American and anti-any
body
> who is seen to be friendly with the US.
Bill,
I submit the following to you in the spirit of friendship, not as an attack
upon you or upon Dr. King's memory. Very great men can be in error and even
in ignorance. In this case Dr. King was very definitely in ignorance. But it
is not to his discredit that he was. I will below detail for some historical
information that is very easily verified, though it is not very well known.
The story below can be checked in "The Encyclopaedia of Judaism" and will be
found to be in agreement. I can furnish references for this well-known and
well-regarded reference book if anyone wishes to check on the below, though
it is readily available.
Before giving the historical information, I would like to propose a story by
analogy.
Suppose that you and I and some other acquaintances were to adopt the culture
and religion of the Sioux and engaged in extended practice of it. At some
later date, were we to place a claim upon "our historical homeland" in the
Dakotas or wherever, would you think that claim to be valid or reasonable? I
expect not.
This is exactly the condition that pertains to the Zionists in Israel. There
are many terms which describe various "divisions" within Judeaism, such as
Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and others. Non-Jews aren't generally familiar with
the meanings, and that unfamiliarity gives rise to some serious
misunderstandings of who these peoples are.
Likewise, it is important to understand that the term "anti-Semite" does not
mean "anti-Jew", regardless of how much it has been misused (in many cases
intentionally) to mean that. It means "against Semites" or those of Semitic
blood. Semitic blood is esentially the bloodline of Jacob, renamed by God
"Israel", or more generally, of the bloodline which was named by God in His
covenant promises to the patriarch Abraham. The easily traceable Semitic
peoples today are comprised esentially of the Palestinians and other original
people of the Jordan valley. There are great multitudes of Semitics in the
world who at this time do not know that they have the blood of Abraham, as
the information was "lost" along with the "Lost Tribes of Israel". However,
their location was well known in the time of the writing of the New
Testament, as evidenced by the greeting of the Epistle of james, and by
Jesus' remarks to his disciples in Matthew chapter 10 and other places.
Jeremiah and Isaiah also plainly were aware of the locations from statements
in their writings. The lost tribes are an interesting study, but are
tangential to this posting.
Approximately 1000 years ago in the Khazar kingdom in central Asia, a certain
"Khagan" or tribal ruler, possibly named Bulan, sought a way to keep his
people from being absorbed by either the Rus from above or the Muslims from
the South. To that end, he established Judaeism (lot of the stroy omitted
here) as the "state religion". He required the entire kingdom to convert and
he set up schools and required his leaders to be educated and with them their
families. This Khazar line was of Japethetic blood, not Semitic. They sprung
from Japeth's line before Abraham and his line were covenanted.
Again, shortening the story a great deal, this ruler chose Judeaism for his
nation, after extended instruction by scholars from Christianity, Judeaism,
and Islam. Importantly , for the purposes of this discussion and for his
needs, he chose Babylonian Talmud Judeaism, which was known then to be a
gross corruption of the writings that comprised the Book of the Nation of
Israel, having been modified so as to avoid conflict witht he pagan
Babylonian mystery religion. The value to Bulan, if indeed that was his name,
was this: the Babylonian Talmud contained over 2500 "laws" that permitted
control by a ruler, controls that did not exist in the "Jerusalem Talmud"
(empahsis mine, it was not called that by the Nation of Israel). Further, and
this was the part that answered Bulan's original intent, adherence to this
religion made his people absolutely unassimilable. You will find by
examination, that the principle holds even today. Anyway, these peoples
worked consistently westward toward the centers of civilization and economy
in Europe and they comprised nearly 100% of the Jews who were in Poland and
Eastern Europe at the bennining of this century.
Where were the original Abrahamic Jews? (I think a more important question is
"Where was Israel, the nation?" but, as I said above, that is a different
study.) Well, they were dispersed, but mostly to "Iberia". Ever wonder why
Spain is called in its ancient name "Land of the Hebrews"? Ever wonder why
there is an Ebro River in Spain? Likewise there is a great number of
landmarks in Spain denoting Hebrew.
Now, the above, is first, not in any way anti-Semitic. It is not telling
about a Semitic people, and it is not anti-anyone, being merely a bit of
history that has been rendered arcane to the modern world (though well-known
as late as the Austro-hungarian empire, when it was taught in schools.
Second, it is not in any way "against" the people that we know as Zionists,
again, being merely their acknowledged history.
Assuming that you research the above, you are equipped to first understand
why there might be anti-Sionist sentiments in the world, and more
importantly, I think, be equipped to look at the "Palestinian problem" more
from their side.
I know that I was mystified for years, not understanding why the Jews in the
modern state of Israel were so resented. I feel now that I can view the
situation more even-handedly than before. BTW, another historical note: the
work "Jew" is not synonymous with The Nation of Israel". The Jews were only
those people of the Southern Kingdom of Judea, a minority of the nation of
Israel. All Jews (historical, not Khazar) were Israelite, but not nearly all
Israel was Jewish.
OK, I'll quit. The above is meant in no way to be divisive, but rather to
promote truth and understanding. If we remain ignorant of this history, we
have no hope of unravelling what is happening in this very day. For those of
you who are believers in the Book, we have been warned. Read Rev. 3:9 with
new eyes.
God bless you all/Don Carron
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: [JN] Magazines
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 12:03:51 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n507
I've got duplicates of most issues of Speaker Builder (27 issues) and
Audio Amateur/Audio Electronics (20 issues) from 1996 to present.
Anybody want them? Just $5 for postage, or free to a deserving student.
JL
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: Magazines
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:08:15 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n508
John Levreault wrote:
>
> I've got duplicates of most issues of Speaker Builder (27 issues) and
> Audio Amateur/Audio Electronics (20 issues) from 1996 to present.
> Anybody want them? Just $5 for postage, or free to a deserving student.
>
> JL
Boy, I should have auctioned them! I received 30+ replies, so please
forgive me for not responding individually. They've found a home with a
student.
JL
=========================================================================
From: Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de>
Subject: [JN] Magger Math
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 14:32:52 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n653
Hi All,
Bill spotted my weak point; math lazyness.
Ok, i didn't correctly calculate the magger before i built it. Because
of that i ended up with a too weak one which is essentially useless. :-)
Since Bill wouldn't stop bugging me with the math questions, here goes;
The current rise after switch on in the magger can be calculated like
this:
i = (U/R)*(1- exp(-(R/L)*t) )
U = source voltage
R = DC resistance in circuit (coil resistance)
L = inductance of coil
t = time
t = L / R (time constant)
For my present circuit this gives 13.5 A (7 ohm, 150V, 20mH).
As inductance and DC resistance get lower the current gets higher.
Inductance is the important parameter.
The magnetic field strength can be calculated like this:
H = (N*I) / l
N = windings
I = current
l = length of coil
(this formula is simplified and applies to long cylindrical coils only,
versions which factor in short coils can be found).
For me: 75000 A/m
In one of the texts which Bill quoted it was said that 3 kOe = 240000
A/m are required to charge AlNiCo magnets.
Whatever, it looks like i have to wind a new coil to get anywhere (and
will get beefier SCRs to deal with the current).
But i'm not sure if i want to do that right now.
I'll probably built a "final version" of the magger some day with some
more convenient features.
Best Regards,
Timo
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. EE Student University of Bremen, Germany
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: [JN] Magic Wires
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:08:36 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n284
For those who are interested, you can see what happened when John Summer,
bachelor's in physics and doctorate in statistics, became annoyed with Tom
Nousaine's claims that wires don't matter and challenged him to blind
testing of his designs.
http://www.vxm.com/21R.64.html
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magic Wires
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:37:33 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n285
On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Daniel Normolle wrote:
> Doug Purl wrote:
>
> > For those who are interested, you can see what happened
> > when John Summer, bachelor's in physics and doctorate in
> > statistics, became annoyed with Tom Nousaine's claims
> > that wires don't matter and challenged him to blind
> > testing of his designs.
> >
> > http://www.vxm.com/21R.64.html
> >
> > Doug Purl
>
> Oh, look, honey, it's the troll of the month club!
>
> In defense of my profession, the phrase "doctoral work in
> statistical analysis and research design" generally means
> "didn't finish degree" or "was forced to take a statistics
> course in graduate school." Jack Summer is not a current
> member of the ASA and has no publications in the statistical
> literature back to 1965.
Are you saying the owner of Transparent Audio is engaged in a transparent
ruse? There is gambling here? I'm shocked, Rick, shocked!
Capitaine Louis Renault
=========================================================================
From: Daniel Normolle <monk@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magic Wires
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:45:55 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n285
Doug Purl wrote:
> For those who are interested, you can see what happened
> when John Summer, bachelor's in physics and doctorate in
> statistics, became annoyed with Tom Nousaine's claims
> that wires don't matter and challenged him to blind
> testing of his designs.
>
> http://www.vxm.com/21R.64.html
>
> Doug Purl
Oh, look, honey, it's the troll of the month club!
In defense of my profession, the phrase "doctoral work in
statistical analysis and research design" generally means
"didn't finish degree" or "was forced to take a statistics
course in graduate school." Jack Summer is not a current
member of the ASA and has no publications in the statistical
literature back to 1965.
dpn
=========================================================================
From: "STEVE CORNETT" <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magic Wires
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:48:51 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n286
Doug posted:
"...Are you saying the owner of Transparent Audio is engaged in a transparent
ruse? There is gambling here? I'm shocked, Rick, shocked!
Capitaine Louis Renault"
Shall we now round up the usual suspects?
Signor Ferrari
=========================================================================
From: "David Suess" <david_suess@hotmail.com>
Subject: [JN] Magnavox console amp question
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:20:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n978
This past weekend I was given an old Magnavox console stereo. Even
though it "worked", i immediately pulled the amp out of the console
and put it into my system.
The topology is a 6eu7 driver with what appears to be 6bq5 PSE output.
I was surprised to find that the thing had a major oscillation problem,
or motorboating. This was at a low frequency. Any ideas? Did I upset
something by getting rid of the connection to the tuner and record
player parts of the system (the power amp provides power for the entire
system). Are my speakers a mis-match for this thing? I tried two
different sets.
Anyway, my ultimate goal is to just use the power xformer, choke,
and output xformers to build soemthing else.
- - david
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console amp question
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 23:52:49 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n979
David Suess wrote:
>
> This past weekend I was given an old Magnavox console stereo. Even
> though it "worked", i immediately pulled the amp out of the console
> and put it into my system.
>
> The topology is a 6eu7 driver with what appears to be 6bq5 PSE output.
>
> I was surprised to find that the thing had a major oscillation problem,
> or motorboating. This was at a low frequency. Any ideas? Did I upset
> something by getting rid of the connection to the tuner and record
> player parts of the system (the power amp provides power for the entire
> system). Are my speakers a mis-match for this thing? I tried two
> different sets.
Some of these console setups are complex and filled with interesting
design shortcuts and tricks. You may have removed/altered the feedback
arrangement when you removed the preamp section from the chain. Some of
these units also had one woofer and a pair of tweeters, and there is
some kind of phase circuitry involved to give the impression of true stereo.
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: RonSonic <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console amp question
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:16:42 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n980
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:20:24 -0500, you wrote:
>This past weekend I was given an old Magnavox console stereo. Even
>though it "worked", i immediately pulled the amp out of the console
>and put it into my system.
>
>The topology is a 6eu7 driver with what appears to be 6bq5 PSE output.
>
>I was surprised to find that the thing had a major oscillation problem,
>or motorboating. This was at a low frequency. Any ideas?
I'd be surprised if the caps weren't on their last legs, and the only
thing holding the filtering scheme together was the additional load by
the components you removed.
Ron
=========================================================================
From: John Niven <jn@cypress.com>
Subject: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:11:22 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n725
Well I think I'm now a real Joe!
I was in my local Goodwill store and bought a Magnavox stereo
radio/player in this large console for $79.99. Model #1ST285R. Things go
fast at the store so I had to make an uninformed choice, and went for it
(at least the money goes to charity).
I thought this might be a cheap way into playing with valves. It does
work (makes a noise from the radio) but the tuning is disconnected so
its hard to say how well.
I had the back off, and the radio and preamp parts are in one section
and then there's a separate chassis for power supply/amp. This section
looks interesting. It has 4 tubes marked 1 X 6CA4, 1 X 6EU7, and 2 X
EL84/6EU7.
Also what I guess is two smallish OPT's and a larger supply transformer
(enclosed). I guess this could be used as a separate power amp after a
little cleaning and re-housing.
The speakers (marked Magnavox) are 10" (I think) on the cabinet sides
and 4" forward facing. The 4" have a large series cap. I have no idea if
these drivers are useful compared to modern day drivers, but they might
be worth a try.
The radio section has AM, FM stereo, and AFC. I may be able to use this,
but I'm not really a big radio user (except in my car).
The turntable is an old style changer - I would never use it.
But my problem is that I don't know if this unit has more value
reconditioned back to original state. If I did that, frankly, I would
have no use for it other than to sell (my wife hates it ;-).
Do I have your (collective) permission to brake it up?
Is the power amp going to amount to anything?
Cheers,
John
=========================================================================
From: StepHydro@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:47:44 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n725
John,
Sounds as if you have a little SE pentode stereo amp. It should be good for a
couple of watts and might sound surprisingly good. I'd even think of
strapping it triode, as the OPTs aren't large enough to pass the power that
tube can supply as a pentode.
As to the speakers, you'll have to let your eyes and ears guide you. Some
Magnavox drivers were of decent quality. If you have some of those, they will
need a better cab than the console.
As to value, I don't believe these have accumulated any yet :-) Were it mine,
I would burn the wood and toss everything except the amplifier (and tuner if
I thought I could get it going). And, I would certainly save the tubes if I
tossed the tuner. They are likely very good tubes if they aren't used up.
Sounds as if you have a good excuse to build some TQWTs using budget speakers.
Cehers/Carron
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:39:37 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n726
John,
Looks like you and i are at about the same place. 1st the Hadcocks, now a
little SE 6BQ5.
>Magnavox stereo
Magnavox=Philips in the rest of the world
>It has 4 tubes marked 1 X 6CA4, 1 X 6EU7, and 2 X EL84/6EU7
I have a little Normende with a similar complement -- 12AX7s thou. It is
destined to become an FM tuner/line stage + a seperate power amp. With the
seperate power amp chassis, yours sounds to be easier to liberate.
>The speakers (marked Magnavox) are 10" (I think) on the cabinet sides
>and 4" forward facing. The 4" have a large series cap. I have no idea if
>these drivers are useful compared to modern day drivers, but they might
>be worth a try.
Try em. They may surprise you -- or they may be s%$#.
>Do I have your (collective) permission to brake it up?
>Is the power amp going to amount to anything?
Go for it. You may be pleasantly surprised -- i was with the quality of my
5-buck amp -- i was pleased when it worked. I was VERY pleased when i
decided that over-all it was more pleasing than the (decent) SS amp i was
using in the lab.
dave
__________________
Transmission Line Speaker Page
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/
new! Chris Bobiak's variation on a Daline
new! Arhus Triode Festival
=========================================================================
From: Dan Marshall <mdaniel7@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:16:12 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n726
Hi John
I agree with others comments, don't try to restore it, just snag the
little SE 6BQ5 amp and have some fun with it. Perhaps the tuner, if it
is in a usable configuration and works well. It will sound better than
you think and with a little upgrading, even better. I would use oil
coupling caps though rather than the 716Ps, as these little amps tend to
be a bit sharp and overly-clear sounding on the top end and oil caps
will soften this a bit. Old tube consoles are hard to give away around
here, but the little SE 6BQ5 amps are worth playing with. In fact they
sell of eBay regularly, sometimes for around what you paid for the
unit. You might try triode-stapping one channel and removing the
feedback and compare it with the other channel and see which you like
best. Some 6BQ5 pentode amps with feedback sound quite nice though,
better than you would think. It ought to put out around three watts,
but will likely run out of gas at around a watt at 40 Hz, so you can't
crowd the bass too hard. One thing you ought to give serious
consideration (after you get it all going and are ready to upgrade) is
to use a low level crossover at around 80 Hz and drive an efficient pair
of little satellites with it and use your SS amp to drive a sub. That
way you can use its entire three watts, as the output transformer won't
overload at 80 Hz even at full power. If you have a decent sub, or
something that can pinch hit for a sub, you will be surprised at the
sound quality you will be able to achieve on a beer budget. A decent
pair of bookshelf speakers might work well for subs, assuming they have
good bass response. Little active xovers using op amps are easy to
design and, if the op amps are of decent quality you won't notice any
degradation in the sound quality with this caliber of equipment. Some
of the Magnavox consoles had decent speakers, so they might be worth a
listen. Perhaps if biamped, they would sound good open backed, along
with the little horn tweeters they used to use.
Dan Marshall
John Niven wrote:
>
> Well I think I'm now a real Joe!
>
> I was in my local Goodwill store and bought a Magnavox stereo
> radio/player in this large console for $79.99. Model #1ST285R. Things go
> fast at the store so I had to make an uninformed choice, and went for it
> (at least the money goes to charity).
>
> I thought this might be a cheap way into playing with valves. It does
> work (makes a noise from the radio) but the tuning is disconnected so
> its hard to say how well.
>
> I had the back off, and the radio and preamp parts are in one section
> and then there's a separate chassis for power supply/amp. This section
> looks interesting. It has 4 tubes marked 1 X 6CA4, 1 X 6EU7, and 2 X
> EL84/6EU7.
> Also what I guess is two smallish OPT's and a larger supply transformer
> (enclosed). I guess this could be used as a separate power amp after a
> little cleaning and re-housing.
>
> The speakers (marked Magnavox) are 10" (I think) on the cabinet sides
> and 4" forward facing. The 4" have a large series cap. I have no idea if
> these drivers are useful compared to modern day drivers, but they might
> be worth a try.
>
> The radio section has AM, FM stereo, and AFC. I may be able to use this,
> but I'm not really a big radio user (except in my car).
>
> The turntable is an old style changer - I would never use it.
>
> But my problem is that I don't know if this unit has more value
> reconditioned back to original state. If I did that, frankly, I would
> have no use for it other than to sell (my wife hates it ;-).
>
> Do I have your (collective) permission to brake it up?
> Is the power amp going to amount to anything?
>
> Cheers,
> John
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 15:56:02 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n726
hi john,
i believe i've had one of these, myself.
i got mine on "bulk" [trash] day from the side of the road.
it was a bit of a pain hauling it home in my [then] spider.
i still have the speakers and the amp chassis.
tossed the rest.
in fact, i think i used the OPT in my 1st "darling" 1626 amp.
this was a SE el84 amp, and it sounded pretty good, as is.
welcome to the next level.... ;)
bob.d.
> ----------
> From: John Niven[SMTP:jn@cypress.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 2:11 PM
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
>
> Well I think I'm now a real Joe!
>
> I was in my local Goodwill store and bought a Magnavox stereo
> radio/player in this large console for $79.99. Model #1ST285R. Things go
> fast at the store so I had to make an uninformed choice, and went for it
> (at least the money goes to charity).
>
> I thought this might be a cheap way into playing with valves. It does
> work (makes a noise from the radio) but the tuning is disconnected so
> its hard to say how well.
>
> I had the back off, and the radio and preamp parts are in one section
> and then there's a separate chassis for power supply/amp. This section
> looks interesting. It has 4 tubes marked 1 X 6CA4, 1 X 6EU7, and 2 X
> EL84/6EU7.
> Also what I guess is two smallish OPT's and a larger supply transformer
> (enclosed). I guess this could be used as a separate power amp after a
> little cleaning and re-housing.
>
> The speakers (marked Magnavox) are 10" (I think) on the cabinet sides
> and 4" forward facing. The 4" have a large series cap. I have no idea if
> these drivers are useful compared to modern day drivers, but they might
> be worth a try.
>
> The radio section has AM, FM stereo, and AFC. I may be able to use this,
> but I'm not really a big radio user (except in my car).
>
> The turntable is an old style changer - I would never use it.
>
> But my problem is that I don't know if this unit has more value
> reconditioned back to original state. If I did that, frankly, I would
> have no use for it other than to sell (my wife hates it ;-).
>
> Do I have your (collective) permission to brake it up?
> Is the power amp going to amount to anything?
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
=========================================================================
From: "Jim Albano" <jimalbano@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 23:31:56 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n726
Definitely don't junk that little amp. I turned that identical amp--the
unmodified power section--into a sweet little bedroom system that provided
many hours of unmitigated musical pleasure. Unmodified, the bass will flop
around like fish out of water, but that little amp was my first foray into
single-ended sound and after that I was forever hooked. Resist the
temptation to disconnect the feedback loop cuz you won't like the results.
But upgrading the coupling caps was worthwhile, as was replacing the stock
6BQ5's. Sovteks worked very well, but Sylvanias didn't--they sounded great
for a week or so, then mysteriously died (don't ask me why . . . that was
early in my DIY days and I was savvy enough to swap coupling caps but that's
about it). With a good choice of speakers, though, you'll be astounded how
good that little amp will sound. Other than the bass, it totally gets out
of the way. A friend of mine once commented about the sound, "music just,
like, breathes out of this system," and she was right.
>From: John Niven <jn@cypress.com>
>To: sound@lists.io.com
>Subject: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:11:22 -0800
>
>Well I think I'm now a real Joe!
>
>I was in my local Goodwill store and bought a Magnavox stereo
>radio/player in this large console for $79.99. Model #1ST285R. Things go
>fast at the store so I had to make an uninformed choice, and went for it
>(at least the money goes to charity).
>
>I thought this might be a cheap way into playing with valves. It does
>work (makes a noise from the radio) but the tuning is disconnected so
>its hard to say how well.
>
>I had the back off, and the radio and preamp parts are in one section
>and then there's a separate chassis for power supply/amp. This section
>looks interesting. It has 4 tubes marked 1 X 6CA4, 1 X 6EU7, and 2 X
>EL84/6EU7.
>Also what I guess is two smallish OPT's and a larger supply transformer
>(enclosed). I guess this could be used as a separate power amp after a
>little cleaning and re-housing.
>
>The speakers (marked Magnavox) are 10" (I think) on the cabinet sides
>and 4" forward facing. The 4" have a large series cap. I have no idea if
>these drivers are useful compared to modern day drivers, but they might
>be worth a try.
>
>The radio section has AM, FM stereo, and AFC. I may be able to use this,
>but I'm not really a big radio user (except in my car).
>
>The turntable is an old style changer - I would never use it.
>
>But my problem is that I don't know if this unit has more value
>reconditioned back to original state. If I did that, frankly, I would
>have no use for it other than to sell (my wife hates it ;-).
>
>Do I have your (collective) permission to brake it up?
>Is the power amp going to amount to anything?
>
>Cheers,
> John
_________________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:34:06 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n727
bob d. wrote:
>>welcome to the next level.... ;)
Up or down?
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:53:36 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n727
depends upon your point of reference |_
/
> ----------
> From: Epstein, Jeremy[SMTP:JEpstein@ndbcap.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 12:34 PM
> To: Joenet (E-mail)
> Subject: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
>
> bob d. wrote:
>
> >>welcome to the next level.... ;)
>
> Up or down?
>
> -j
> =========================================
> Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
> =========================================
>
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:39:04 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n727
John
Take out the SE amp and improve upon that
Keep the speakers, they might sound surprisdingly good !
The rest may be thrown away.....
Guido
=========================================================================
From: John Niven <jn@cypress.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:51:21 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n728
Thanks for the advice everyone!!!!
Oh dear this could get dangerous! Last night I disconnected the power
amp from the radio and the speakers and reconnected it to some small
bookshelf speakers and my Walkman radio (!).
Well, I sat shivering in my garage (I have a low WAF at the moment), and
listened to the local "smooth jazz" station. Not much happening in the
bass, but I think I just got a glimmer of what I have been reading about
on this list :-)
I definitely want more of this in my system!!!!
I suppose the lack of bass (partly speakers) is mainly due to the OPT's.
I am however thinking that this may well power that midbass up horn on
my drawing board. My current SS amp can handle the lowbass.
A schematic would be nice. Anybody got one? I can draw it out myself,
but its easier to start with something.
I have a pair on Senhisser (SP!!!) headphones that are 400 Ohms. Can I
connect them to the speaker outputs? I always use these as my reference
(in fact in my household I mostly am forced to use them - bloody TV!).
Many more ??? to come!!!
Cheers,
John
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Niven wrote:
>
> Well I think I'm now a real Joe!
>
> I was in my local Goodwill store and bought a Magnavox stereo
> radio/player in this large console for $79.99. Model #1ST285R. Things go
> fast at the store so I had to make an uninformed choice, and went for it
> (at least the money goes to charity).
>
> I thought this might be a cheap way into playing with valves. It does
> work (makes a noise from the radio) but the tuning is disconnected so
> its hard to say how well.
>
> I had the back off, and the radio and preamp parts are in one section
> and then there's a separate chassis for power supply/amp. This section
> looks interesting. It has 4 tubes marked 1 X 6CA4, 1 X 6EU7, and 2 X
> EL84/6EU7.
> Also what I guess is two smallish OPT's and a larger supply transformer
> (enclosed). I guess this could be used as a separate power amp after a
> little cleaning and re-housing.
>
> The speakers (marked Magnavox) are 10" (I think) on the cabinet sides
> and 4" forward facing. The 4" have a large series cap. I have no idea if
> these drivers are useful compared to modern day drivers, but they might
> be worth a try.
>
> The radio section has AM, FM stereo, and AFC. I may be able to use this,
> but I'm not really a big radio user (except in my car).
>
> The turntable is an old style changer - I would never use it.
>
> But my problem is that I don't know if this unit has more value
> reconditioned back to original state. If I did that, frankly, I would
> have no use for it other than to sell (my wife hates it ;-).
>
> Do I have your (collective) permission to brake it up?
> Is the power amp going to amount to anything?
>
> Cheers,
> John
=========================================================================
From: critter <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnavox console stereo - advice, please
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:38:41 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n728
Here in Australia these are referred to as radiograms. ie Radio-gramophone.
Big blond veneer leviathans that still continue to litter the suburbs.
Local brands included Philips, AWA and Kriesler
With 2x 10" speakers and two SE pentode amps, could also be the start of a
guitar amp. Pull the speakers and amp chassis. Ditch the tuner and replace
it with a simple guitar preamp.
critter
=========================================================================
From: "Holger Stein" <steinmusic@cityweb.de>
Subject: [JN] Magnepan SMGa's
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:40:21 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Sellek, Grant (TSA) <Grant.Sellek@transport.sa.gov.au>
To: <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 5:12 AM
Subject: RE: [JN] Progress Report; the TAD 2001 Recovery Project
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Paul Butterfield
> >
> >For expediency and consistency, we are LAud measuring raw drivers only,
> >impedance curves only, with the throat pointing up. What, I'm gonna
> >mount, unmount, 16 pound drivers in a horn hundreds of times?
> >Hey, I got nerdgenes, not hunkgenes.... <grin>
>
> What a wimp!!! Log off and go to the gym immediately!
>
> Grant "only bass horns count" Sellek
>
=========================================================================
From: Robert C Chambers <rchamber@norwich.edu>
Subject: [JN] Magnequest FS050-RS500 Differences
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:46:39 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n519
Hello-
Is anyone aware of the differences between the older FS050 and newer
RS500 SE output transformers? I think both are 5.0K/80mA primaries.
Thanks,
Robert
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnequest FS050-RS500 Differences
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:06:51 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n520
At 2:46 PM -0400 4/13/00, Robert C Chambers wrote:
>Hello-
>
>Is anyone aware of the differences between the older FS050 and newer
>RS500 SE output transformers? I think both are 5.0K/80mA primaries.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Robert
I *think* that the RS series are bobbin-wound as opposed to hand-wound.
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: [JN] Magnequest (gasp!) iron FS, WTB
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:32:03 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n505
Now that things have calmed down for several hours, it may be time to do a
little swapmeeting.
I am looking for Magnequest DS-025 or FS-030 outputs, in new or used condition.
I have TFA204 outputs, mounted but unused, for $90 each, plus shipping, and
the _original_ BAC plate chokes, 50H at 80ma, in a larger stack than
current production and with slightly less DCR, for $120 each, in used but
excellent condition, also plus shipping. These are heavy, by the way.
Please email me offlist at: tubesguy@chorus.net
Thanks - Pat
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: [JN] Magnequest hookup info?
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:02:55 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n489
Could anyone help me (and Robert Root) out with the hookup info for the
classic multiple-secondary Magnequest output trannies, ala the FS030 or
DS025? Mikey's offline these days. TIA - Pat
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnequest hookup info?
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:54:46 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n489
Thanks to all who responded. Got the info - Pat
=========================================================================
From: "Richard Jones" <RJ0101@Sprynet.Com>
Subject: [JN] Magnequest VS Electraprint
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:41:46 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n054
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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A quick question:
any comparisons between like a DS-025 and an equivalent electraprint =
tranny?
sound quality??
Thanks
Richard
- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5DD2.37383B60
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A quick question:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>any comparisons between like a DS-025 and an =
equivalent=20
electraprint tranny?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>sound quality??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Richard</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5DD2.37383B60--
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnequest VS Electraprint
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:05:01 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n054
Richard,
This is a very subjective answer to a very subjective question.
Both companies manufacture some very high quality transformers, and to
say which one is better really depends a lot on what circuit you are
using and with what speakers, etc. There have been some fantastic
homebrew and commercial amps built with both brands. It's impossible to
make a blanket recommendation one way or the other.
Personally, I use Electra-Print iron everywhere. In my system, it gives
me a very clean sound that is extended on top and bottom. However,
which ever you choose, I don't think you'll be disappointed. I will
admit to having personal bias towards Electra-Print, being a personal
friend of Jack Elliano, the owner. I am also a happy and satisfied
customer.
ENJOY!
Chris Beck
Richard Jones wrote:
> A quick question: any comparisons between like a DS-025 and an
> equivalent electraprint tranny? sound quality?? ThanksRichard
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:52:36 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n784
Hi Martin,
Whew, I haven't thought about these these in years. The U.S. Our Farce
taught about these when I went through the Automatic Flight Controls tech
school in 1970. I'm pretty fuzzy, but as I recall, these took the small
three-phase signal from a syncro and amplified it to be able to control a
much larger three-phase syncro that actually varied the position of a flight
controls surfaces, such as ailerons and the rudder. I recall these were used
in the B-52 and other bombers that controlled the flight control surfaces
with cables. Most fighters used hydualics to control the flight controls
surfaces.
Whew, what a fuzzy memory. Recalled through a haze of smoke, one might
say... Ah yes, if you can remember the 70s, you didn't have a very good
time! I do recall thinking that if it weren't for vodka in the Warsaw Pact,
Nato would have been in BIG trouble... (Wake up and find yourself in the Air
Force... Ohh NOoooo....)(What a way to dodge the draft!)
Cheers,
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> Behalf Of Martin Seddon
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 7:43 AM
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: [JN] Magnetic amps
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Anyone know what were 'magnetic amplifiers' used in the early sixties, not
> for audio, but industrial control applications. An aircraft engineer
> friend told me about them but couldnt say the principle.
>
> Martin
>
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:00:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n784
Hi Christian,
Actually I don't believe that this is true. I don't recall the technical
details, but the magnetic amps were pretty complex. A transformer will vary
voltage and current inversely while holding power constant. While I really
don't recall the details, I presume that the mag amp actually amplified
current and/or voltage as well as power. The output of the input syncros was
quite small, the syncros being driven were relatively huge. Sorry, no free
lunch here, either!
Cheers,
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> Behalf Of Christian Rintelen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:48 AM
> To: Joelist
> Subject: Re: [JN] Magnetic amps
>
>
> Magnetics = transformer, so who else than Lundahl would build
> magnetic amps ;-)
> Read more about the Lundahl MagAmp here:
> <http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/archive/perl/14_printreview.htm>
>
> Christian
>
=========================================================================
From: "Doug Forbes" <av599@lafn.org>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:16:06 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n784
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Magnetic amplifiers are used in servomechanisms for the control of
electromechanical devices. They are also known as direct current
transformers, current transformers, saturable reactors, and amplistats. Such
amplifiers consist of one or more saturable reactors, the controlling
voltage being from a dc source. Magnetic amplifiers can be designed to
deliver almost any amount of power in the 60 to 400 Hz range.
Magnetic amplifiers can also be designed to operate at radio frequencies
however, their frequency range is limited by the transformers and rectifier.
Doug Forbes
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QEEkAjI6j0pa/9k=
- ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C07F9C.F508E340--
=========================================================================
From: "Remco Stoutjesdijk" <r.m.stoutjesdijk@student.utwente.nl>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:12:25 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n784
Hi,
> Anyone know what were 'magnetic amplifiers' used in the early
> sixties, not
> for audio, but industrial control applications. An aircraft engineer
> friend told me about them but couldnt say the principle.
A magnetic amplifier modulates a carrier wave through a transformer which is
subsequently filtered to yield the output. It is in fact a form of PWM,
which can be applied to audio when using a supersonic frequency carrier
wave. Some were made for audio with varying results, probably due to the low
Zo, which makes it quite load susceptible. I recall one such amp described
in a German hifi mag about a year and a half ago, don't remember which one
exactly...
The principle is still in use in switched mode PSUs, since the high carrier
frequency allows for smaller transformer cores.
You may want to visit <http://tpub.com/neets/book8/32l.htm> for a more
detailed description.
Regards,
Remco
- --
http://listen.to/rmsaudio
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:48:16 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n784
Magnetics = transformer, so who else than Lundahl would build magnetic amps ;-)
Read more about the Lundahl MagAmp here:
<http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/archive/perl/14_printreview.htm>
Christian
=========================================================================
From: Martin Seddon <mseddon@iinet.net.au>
Subject: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:43:14 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n784
Hi,
Anyone know what were 'magnetic amplifiers' used in the early sixties, not
for audio, but industrial control applications. An aircraft engineer
friend told me about them but couldnt say the principle.
Martin
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:18:47 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n785
Hi Remco,
There are those, also. They used to be used in Uninteruptable Power Supplies
and worked by saturating the core of a transformer. They have been replaced
by less expensive technology using solidstate and relays.
However, I don't believe these were what Martin was referring to. He
mentioned that an aircraft engineer mentioned them being used in 1960s era
aircraft.
Cheers,
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> Behalf Of Remco Stoutjesdijk
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:12 AM
> To: Joe-Net (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
>
>
> Hi,
>
> > Anyone know what were 'magnetic amplifiers' used in the early
> > sixties, not
> > for audio, but industrial control applications. An aircraft engineer
> > friend told me about them but couldnt say the principle.
>
> A magnetic amplifier modulates a carrier wave through a
> transformer which is
> subsequently filtered to yield the output. It is in fact a form of PWM,
> which can be applied to audio when using a supersonic frequency carrier
> wave. Some were made for audio with varying results, probably due
> to the low
> Zo, which makes it quite load susceptible. I recall one such amp described
> in a German hifi mag about a year and a half ago, don't remember which one
> exactly...
>
> The principle is still in use in switched mode PSUs, since the
> high carrier
> frequency allows for smaller transformer cores.
>
> You may want to visit <http://tpub.com/neets/book8/32l.htm> for a more
> detailed description.
>
> Regards,
> Remco
> --
> http://listen.to/rmsaudio
>
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:39:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n785
Hi Doug,
Ah perfect! Not only is your memory better than mine, your schematics are
too!
Thanks for refreshing my memory. What were you smoking back then, Luckys?
Cheers,
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> Behalf Of Doug Forbes
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:16 PM
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: Re: [JN] Magnetic amps
>
>
> Magnetic amplifiers are used in servomechanisms for the control of
> electromechanical devices. They are also known as direct current
> transformers, current transformers, saturable reactors, and
> amplistats. Such
> amplifiers consist of one or more saturable reactors, the controlling
> voltage being from a dc source. Magnetic amplifiers can be designed to
> deliver almost any amount of power in the 60 to 400 Hz range.
> Magnetic amplifiers can also be designed to operate at radio frequencies
> however, their frequency range is limited by the transformers and
> rectifier.
>
> Doug Forbes
>
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:34:32 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n785
>Secondly, did the old "Carver Cube" amplifiers use mag amp
>technology? I remember they were tiny, with huge power output
>claimed.
I can't remember but they did some tom-foolery with the power supply.
We had one of those thru the shop when they were new. Hooked up an NAD 3020
(as pre), a Carver cube, and a set of Magnepan SMG (cause they present a
fairly non-complex load). Turned it up till we could hear the amp going
into audiable clipping. Then hooked in the power amp section of the 3020.
It played louder (sounded better too). The Carver cube then gained a
derogatory name which is still in use today...
dave
____________________
bartender, bring a pina colada
<riff>
NO. make that a wahter, HtO
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:55:43 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n785
Hi Grant,
I've never heard of a magnetic amp being used in this application. Of
course, potential is often what we can make of it... Go for it! Sometimes
it's the only way to answer our questions.
Cheers,
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> Behalf Of Sellek, Grant (TSA)
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:06 PM
> To: 'Paul Croft'; Doug Forbes; sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
>
>
> Is there any potential for making a high power low frequency
> audio magnetic amp for a subwoofer? Say, 200-500W over
> 15-50Hz, with good linearity? Would it be efficient, or
> economical?
>
> Secondly, did the old "Carver Cube" amplifiers use mag amp
> technology? I remember they were tiny, with huge power output
> claimed.
>
> I'm quite interested in any answers to my first question.
>
> Thanks,
> Grant
>
> Grant Sellek, Adelaide, Australia
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> > > Behalf Of Doug Forbes
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001
> > >
> > > Magnetic amplifiers are used in servomechanisms for the control of
> > > electromechanical devices. They are also known as direct current
> > > transformers, current transformers, saturable reactors, and
> > > amplistats. Such
> > > amplifiers consist of one or more saturable reactors, the
> > controlling
> > > voltage being from a dc source. Magnetic amplifiers can be
> > designed to
> > > deliver almost any amount of power in the 60 to 400 Hz range.
> > > Magnetic amplifiers can also be designed to operate at
> > radio frequencies
> > > however, their frequency range is limited by the transformers and
> > > rectifier.
>
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@transport.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:35:56 +1030
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n785
Is there any potential for making a high power low frequency
audio magnetic amp for a subwoofer? Say, 200-500W over
15-50Hz, with good linearity? Would it be efficient, or
economical?
Secondly, did the old "Carver Cube" amplifiers use mag amp
technology? I remember they were tiny, with huge power output
claimed.
I'm quite interested in any answers to my first question.
Thanks,
Grant
Grant Sellek, Adelaide, Australia
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> > Behalf Of Doug Forbes
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001
> >
> > Magnetic amplifiers are used in servomechanisms for the control of
> > electromechanical devices. They are also known as direct current
> > transformers, current transformers, saturable reactors, and
> > amplistats. Such
> > amplifiers consist of one or more saturable reactors, the
> controlling
> > voltage being from a dc source. Magnetic amplifiers can be
> designed to
> > deliver almost any amount of power in the 60 to 400 Hz range.
> > Magnetic amplifiers can also be designed to operate at
> radio frequencies
> > however, their frequency range is limited by the transformers and
> > rectifier.
=========================================================================
From: Martinburm@aol.com
Subject: Re:[JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:58:06 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n785
Hi
Working as a radar technician I learned that magnetic amp can be a motor
running from the mains (or any stable supply) with a dynamo winding on its
axis and a winding for building up a magnetic field to control/power the
dynamo.
Change of the magnetic field driven from a tube servo circuit leads to change
of output current of the "magnetic amp". This indeed can be strong enough to
move a heavy antenna (radar) in a servo circuit.
I think, my car`s generator works on the same principle
Regards Hans-Martin
- -----Original Message-----
>Anyone know what were 'magnetic amplifiers' used in the early sixties, not
>for audio, but industrial control applications. An aircraft engineer
>friend told me about them but couldnt say the principle.
>
>Martin
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Sv: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:17:18 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n785
Hi guys.
I just had a minute to spare , and could not help reading this thread.
Magnetic Amplifiers seems to pop up , every now and then.
Actually , M.A. can not be desciped as anything in particual , except that iron is the main issue.
Just like audio amplifiers , can be about everything , except they handles LF freq.
In either words MA is circuits in which the electro mechanical devices are the controlling and ampli
fying parts.
The thing about MA is that you RELY on the iron , and design with this in mind , the active/Voltage
devices being secondary.
I guess that Slagles amps are the closest we come to tubed audio MA's..... ;-)
( But he is very depentent about the merits of the tubes as well , so they can not really be refered
to as MA's )
MA are not Fidelity amps. - They are meant for other purposes. This does however , not imply that th
ey can not
be designed as High Fidelity amps.
MA can cover DC to many 100 kHz !!
( DC is merely an "on/of" issue , not usefull in true signal carriers )
Some years ago , I remember seeing a Swedish Magnetic Audio Amplifier.
It was refered to in positive descritions , by listeners , but it vanished as sudden as it appered o
n the stage..?
MA's can be total complex ( Usually are ) , as the thing the designers looks at is the hysterese cu
rves of the iron etc. They care little about the curves of the transistors/FETS/ Tubes involved , as
they has very little influence of the circuit merits. ( These are used as energy sources , like gas
olin for a motor , nothing else )
BUT.... talk about "skineffect" !!
( A Magnetic amplifier will start play , when the CD is over ;-)
MA also seems to DEPENT on even and odd harmonics in the design process to make the damn things wor
k !!?
Way beyond my understanding...
> > > > Magnetic amplifiers are used in servomechanisms for the control of
> > > > electromechanical devices. They are also known as direct current
> > > > transformers, current transformers, saturable reactors, and
> > > > amplistats.
True , and at the same time I belive , Amplistat is a Brand/Tradename !!
( Imagine if someone owned the term "Class A" :-)
I think I will stick to tube amps , with a little iron here and there...............
WHat says Slagle ??? :-)
- - Kurt
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sv: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:33:18 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n786
Hi,
I seem to recall reading something about David Berning's amps - is their
operating principle similar?
regards
Chris
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
=========================================================================
From: Martin Seddon <mseddon@iinet.net.au>
Subject: RE: [JN] Magnetic amps
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:30:55 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n788
Do I understand this correctly (or at all)? At its simplest:
1. Take say a power transformer with two secondaries (primary on mains)
2. Modulate the inductance of the transformer using signal across one of
the secondaries.
3. Rectify the output of the other secondary.
4. Smooth the DC output with filter for chosen bandwidth
5. Feed DC swing thru SE OT to drive 'speaker
ie modulate the power output of the power transformer by swinging its
inductance with the signal.
Now here are the questions - are we not in fact doing this when we impose a
signal back thru the power transformer? (SE power amps) And does low DCR
make the PT more immune to such 'mag amp' effects (if any)?
Martin Seddon
Operations Engineer
Tel. (08) 9348 6266
Fax. (08) 9348 4853
Mobile 0403 053514
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] Magnetic amps -- the UTC story
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:25:10 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n786
Joes,
I don't know squat about magnetic amplifiers, but I have this 1954 UTC catalog with a page on them,
including some little application schematics. I scanned it and uploaded it to the PUBLIC folder on t
he XDRIVE (login: joelist password: noise). Actually I uploaded a .gif version and a .jpg version
, both just over 200k, both pretty
clear. Top part of the page is pulse transformers or something, but scroll down and you'll see it.
I also uploaded some time ago the scanned pages for a big Jensen Back-loaded Horn design, about 5 ft
high, 3 ft wide, 2 ft. deep. I will be acquiring a pair of these in the foreseeable future, and wo
uld be interested to hear what anyone knows about them. The pages are also in the PUBLIC folder, an
d the diagrams are pretty clear, esp.
the high-res version.
Rick
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: [JN] magnetic cored speaker X-over inductors
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 18:49:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n597
hey,
anybody have any experiences playing around with steel or nickel cored
X-over inductors?
screwed around with them a bit... results thus far look promising.
got one thats 1.5mhy .03 ohms (yes 3/100th of an ohm) and looks linear from
20-20K and will handle 5W at 20hz before saturation....
a comprable goertz will have nearly 10 times the DCR... and the power issue
can be dealt with pretty easily... my next design will be same inductance,
and dcr, but should handle 50W at 20hz...
has anyone ever looked at the capacitences of the air core inductors? the
flat ones in particular look like they would have appreciable capacitence
dave
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@CREO.BE>
Subject: RE: [JN] magnetic cored speaker X-over inductors
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:12:03 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n597
Hi Dave. As an aside to your question, my Tannoy Gold crossovers have steel cored inductors. I was a
dvised by both Tannoy technical support and several experienced Tannoy rebuilders that while improve
ments co