Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 2
=========================================================================
From: "P. de R. L." <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] S11E12
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:26:52 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n535
Funny you should mention this one; I was looking at some just the other day.
I do have some experience with 12E1. It makes a very satisfactory triode.
Strapped as such Pa is about 40W, and if you run enough current through it,
ra (depending on anode voltage) can be as low as 600 ohms
From memory mu is about 5 so it's not too difficult to drive. I did build
an amplifier running at 300V and about 70mA through each valve (p-p). it
sounded rather nice although the output power was low; this was due to the
incorrect output transformer.
Again it would depend upon your voltage and requirements. I would guess
that 4k would be a good starting point. If you can really run some current
at say 250V, I think it would sound very good.
The G2 limit is only 300V (Va is 800V) but I know for a fact that it will be
fine as a triode at 400V. However your bias would then be about -75V and ra
rather higher.
i hope this has been of some use.
Regards,
Paul Leclercq
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mick Maloney <supra@cantech.net.au>
To: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 11:19 AM
Subject: [JN] S11E12
> Anyone have any experience with S11E12 (I believe it is eqiv. to 12E1) in
> class A SE or Push pull.
>
> Mick M
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Mick Maloney <supra@cantech.net.au>
Subject: [JN] S11E12
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:19:49 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n535
Anyone have any experience with S11E12 (I believe it is eqiv. to 12E1) in
class A SE or Push pull.
Mick M
=========================================================================
From: Conrad Drake <conrad@directwest.iinet.net.au>
Subject: [JN] S220 arm from DC [Was: Re: Garrard & phono preamp]
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:38:37 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n545
David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com> a ecrit:
> I have some NOS tonearms which a number of joes have tried. No one has
> actually got back to me and told me how they went....anyone actually used
> them yet?
Mea Culpa. ("at night my body blushed to the whistle of the
birch")
It's been sitting on my shelf for some months.
I've taken it out of the box and looked at it a number of times.
I am not going to install it any time Real Soon Now(tm), so this
is an open invitation for WestOz Joes to inspect/audition.
It's a nicely built unit which appears to be on the same
evolutionary path which spawned the SME 3009 &tc. Looks are very
much industrial - gives the impression of being designed and
built to perform at a level "suitable for broadcasts use" (use
best BBC voice)
I'm not sure quite what vintage, but the postcode and 7 digit
phone number in the specifications indicate that it wasn;t that
long ago.
> There's ... pic and specs of the S-220 tonearm, at this link:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=149682&a=1773196
Yours,
Conrad Drake
- --
Direct West Invs. P/L Solutions for Embedded Systems.
conrad@directwest.ii.net (ph)+61 40 747 1611
http://directwest.ii.net (fx)+61 8 9285 1011
12 Gayton Road, City Beach, WA 6015 AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] S220 arm from DC [Was: Re: Garrard & phono preamp]
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:15:06 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n545
>Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:38:37 +0800
>From: Conrad Drake <conrad@directwest.iinet.net.au>
<<snip>>
>I'm not sure quite what vintage, but the postcode and 7 digit
>phone number in the specifications indicate that it wasn;t that
>long ago.
>
>> There's ... pic and specs of the S-220 tonearm, at this link:
>> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=149682&a=1773196
I contacted the distributor http://www.syntec.com.au/ and was told that
they haven't sold any tonearms for twelve years or more!
David
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: Re : [JN] S220 arm from DC, WIDTWE
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:25:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n546
Mea culpa too - but I hope I never said I'd get to it right away. I'm
waiting for my Teres DIY turntable parts, is my excuse.
Did some other stuff this weekend (besides, of course, paying floral tribute
to the mother of my child.) I made up a pair of those CAT-5 cables that
everyone is talking about, two eight-conductor cables per speaker, wired
with all whites common and all colors hot.
This experiment reinforces my impression that I don't hear much difference
between cables. They replaced 18/2 lamp cord and sound very similar to these
ears. I will keep listening to see if my cloth ears have the acuity to pick
up anything as I get more familiar with them.
I also made some progress on a Darling amp I'm building for my daughter's
school's fundraising auction. I have the chassis 99% finished, which has
been an ordeal. I made the mistake of standing in Home Depot in front of the
amplifier chassis plate section (door hardware) and selecting a stainless
steel plate (because it looks cool) over my usual brass. Big mistake, I
realized, long before this morning's picking-steel-splinters-out-of
my-fingertips session. If I had chosen brass I'd be done by now.
I'm using a somewhat different construction philosophy on this amp from what
I've used in the past. 1) Junk box parts top to bottom - I don't think I've
bought ANYTHING for the circuit, just chassis bits. 2) Shared cathodes, both
stages, and only the single 1626 per channel. This baby's going to be a
"real" Darling. 3) SS rectification. I am using the HF snubber network a la
John Camille between the diodes and the transformer, FWIW. 4) Hammond 125E's
for outputs.
I'll be interested to hear how this whole thing sounds, it will have a very
different batch of parts in it from my own Darling amps. Much more of the
cheapskate approach this time. The whole audio chassis fits on about a 6"x4"
plate, which will attach to standoffs above the power supply/OPT chassis.
Very neat layout this time for a change!
I should snap some pictures of this thing before I send it out, it'll look
pretty cool at the very least.
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: houndman@onix.com
Subject: [JN] ??'s about Tube Sound
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:48 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n439
Not being one who liked the, "Tube Sound" but not that crazy about SS
and seeming to like SE better than both I have a question about what
people think the warmth of tubes comes from. I have liked that warmth to
a degree but like the sterile sound from SS I didn't feel it was right
and somewhere in between seemed to be where I tried to land.
I am wondering if like what used to be said about SS that Crosover
Notch distortion gave an unnatural brightness that in PP tubes it the
warmth can be from something similar or if like SE people say that using
one tube to amplify the whole signal eliminates that problem. Can the
output transformers be the cause of the warmth since SE use a different
type. Like can air gap trannies on a PP produce a similar character as
SE's do or what I am feeling is a Lack on it though I am not using a
great SE tube amp on tweeters just an EL84 but am itching to try tubes
on my mids but think I will need more power but in SE's a 300B amp seems
like what I would have to use since I can't figure a high efficent
midrange I would like since it would have to go pretty low to match with
my bass. I am tempted but what I hear about the sound of 300B's but
would prefer a cheaper route like maybe a PP or maybe I should look into
a SE EL34. Can't remember if they have the power of a 300B since I only
think of them in PP amps.
My questions are sparked by what I used to hear from an old
Dyna SS amp I used to use and having a single voice coil single bass
driver I used to blend the bass with a transformer and used to like the
sound and wondering it the transformer affected the sound giving it a
pleasant sound that wasn't tubes or SS. I had Dyna MK III's in once and
it had a similar sound in some ways.
- -----------------
\/ince ++
working on breeding an Afghan that Doesn't mat.... And
comes when called...
Playing around with SE tube amps. Think I'd try something easy ??
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] ??'s about Tube Sound
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 02:44:23 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n439
At 1:01 AM -0500 2/8/00, houndman@onix.com wrote:
> Not being one who liked the, "Tube Sound" but not that crazy about SS
>and seeming to like SE better than both I have a question about what
>people think the warmth of tubes comes from. I have liked that warmth to
>a degree but like the sterile sound from SS I didn't feel it was right
>and somewhere in between seemed to be where I tried to land.
>
> I am wondering if like what used to be said about SS that Crosover
>Notch distortion gave an unnatural brightness that in PP tubes it the
>warmth can be from something similar or if like SE people say that using
>one tube to amplify the whole signal eliminates that problem. Can the
>output transformers be the cause of the warmth since SE use a different
>type. Like can air gap trannies on a PP produce a similar character as
>SE's do or what I am feeling is a Lack on it though I am not using a
>great SE tube amp on tweeters just an EL84 but am itching to try tubes
>on my mids but think I will need more power but in SE's a 300B amp seems
>like what I would have to use since I can't figure a high efficent
>midrange I would like since it would have to go pretty low to match with
>my bass. I am tempted but what I hear about the sound of 300B's but
>would prefer a cheaper route like maybe a PP or maybe I should look into
>a SE EL34. Can't remember if they have the power of a 300B since I only
>think of them in PP amps.
If you have surplus PP trannies laying around, you might consider PP
2A3s or 6B4s, which are available in new, cheap versions, and use an
inexpensive phase-splitting IT from Antique Electronics to get you
started. You'll be amazed at the mid-range ease and clarity, but cut
it off at 100Hz. Or go whole hog and save up for an SE amp. But
please use *true* triodes for the outputs. People don't talk about
that "mid-range magic" for nothing... Just my .02.
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Power.Ralph@epamail.epa.gov
Subject: [JN] SACD listening impressions
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:14:42 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n644
Hi All,
I got up off my rump and went to listen to a Sony SCD-777ES player
at a local hifi retailer Saturday afternoon. It is a fine looking player
indeed with very nice build quality.
I listened very briefly to "Miles Davis - Kind of Blue" and then listened
to the first two movements of Bruno Walter and the Columbia Symphony's
1960 recording of Mozart Symphony # 40 in G minor remastered by Sony
to the SACD format.
My audio impressions were taken through the latest solid state B&K
preamp and amp, which were nice looking and full featured, driving
a a pair of nice Sonus Faber minimonitors on stands.
Unfortunately I ran into the old problem I used to have with my solid state
amp. I had to raise the volume on low level pasages to get detail and then
lower it on high level passages to keep it from blowing my head off, but I
was able to discern some good impressions of the character of SACD
in spite of it.
The biggest thing I noticed about SACD was the much increased feeling
of of actually being at the original musical performance as opposed to just
listening to a good recording. There was a strong feeling of individual
instruments playing in their own spaces that really grabs you. You can
discern each instrument playing even when they are all playing at once.
Spactial cues were rendered with the naturalness of a live performance,
especially depth. Timbres of individual instruments shone through.
The gestalt of "being there" was very high.
It did have a little bit of a sterile feel to it which I mostly attribute to the
highly
complex solid state equipment I was listening through. I felt it could
much benefit from a strong dose of SE triode tube magic and I will try
to demo it on my own system as soon as possible.
I didn't have time to try a standard CD, but needless to say I was
very impressed with it and hope that the SACD standard will be
available in the future. I feel it is definately a step toward better quality
digital reproduction.
My 2 cents,
- Ralph
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] SACD listening impressions
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:38:42 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n644
Power.Ralph@epamail.epa.gov wrote:
I got up off my rump and went to listen to a Sony SCD-777ES player
> at a local hifi retailer.
>
> I listened very briefly to "Miles Davis - Kind of Blue" and then listened
> to the first two movements of Bruno Walter and the Columbia Symphony's
> 1960 recording of Mozart Symphony # 40 in G minor remastered by Sony
> to the SACD format.
>
> Unfortunately I ran into the old problem I used to have with my solid state
> amp. I had to raise the volume on low level pasages to get detail and then
> lower it on high level passages to keep it from blowing my head off,
When you listen to master tapes that is what you experience , due to the much higher
dynamic range , than a vinyl or DC can reproduce.
And , you are actually listening to old master tapes.
In order to evaluate the SACD system , you must have a new recording , obtained with
this media.
In either words a genuine SACD disc.
The new 24/96 and 292 DVD and SACD , must be regarded as the best reproduction
medias , we have yet developed.
And the fact that you comes this close to the old analog master tape , wittness the
potential in these new systems.
It is unfortuneately a common mistake in magazine rewievs , to test the new DVD
players , against CD players , using CD's ( 16/44)
I think it is needless to say that a DVD can not improve the old 16/44 CD...
It will still be such , and it will still suffer from the limitations this format
wears.
I look forward to your report using SE amps. - And yet another report when you have
a genuine SACD at hand :-)
Thanks for the post , Ralph.
- - Kurt
=========================================================================
From: Norman Luttbeg <nluttbeg@politics.tamu.edu>
Subject: [JN] SACD listening impressions
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:04:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n646
I would like to add some observations to Kurt Steffensen's and Ralph's about
the Sony sacd. They wrote:
>
> I got up off my rump and went to listen to a Sony SCD-777ES player
>> at a local hifi retailer.
>>
>> I listened very briefly to "Miles Davis - Kind of Blue" and then listened
>> to the first two movements of Bruno Walter and the Columbia Symphony's
>> 1960 recording of Mozart Symphony # 40 in G minor remastered by Sony
>> to the SACD format.
>>
>> Unfortunately I ran into the old problem I used to have with my solid state
>> amp. I had to raise the volume on low level pasages to get detail and then
>> lower it on high level passages to keep it from blowing my head off,
>
> When you listen to master tapes that is what you experience , due to the much
> higher
> dynamic range , than a vinyl or DC can reproduce.
> And , you are actually listening to old master tapes.
>
> In order to evaluate the SACD system , you must have a new recording ,
> obtained with
> this media.
> In either words a genuine SACD disc.
>
> The new 24/96 and 292 DVD and SACD , must be regarded as the best reproduction
> medias , we have yet developed.
>
> And the fact that you comes this close to the old analog master tape ,
> wittness the
> potential in these new systems.
>
> It is unfortuneately a common mistake in magazine rewievs , to test the new
> DVD
> players , against CD players , using CD's ( 16/44)
> I think it is needless to say that a DVD can not improve the old 16/44 CD...
> It will still be such , and it will still suffer from the limitations this
> format
> wears.
I bought a Sony SCD-1 and broke it in for one week running 24 hrs./day. A
friend lent me 33 SACDs including those recommended by Bound for Sound. I
compared the unit with my CEC TL0 and Audio Note DAC 4 Signature.
Consistently you could identify the sacd by greater openness and depth. I
also found that the Bound for Sound recommendations were best, but many of
these are older recordings converted to sacd. Some were new sacd recording
like the Brubeck in UK. In two instances I had CDs of the same recording as
the sacd and compared the cd playback on the Sony with the cd mode of the
sacd on the Sony. There was no contest! The cd layer on sacd is crap.
I then compared the CD on the CEC/AN versus the sacd on the Sony. Again, no
contest. The sacd is more open, but Sony analog is worthless. No one who
heard the comparison wanted to return to the Sony. I sold the SCD-1 and will
await better analog as well as better software.
=========================================================================
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
Subject: [JN] Sacher Torte
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 07:28:57 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n582
I have found a recipe I am reasonably confident in. Email me off list if you
want
it.
- -j
=========================================================================
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
Subject: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 14:50:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n583
Since ten people replied in only a few hours I'm going to say this is of
general interest and post it to the list. Sorry to any chocophobes on the
JoeNet for the bandwidth but I gave up on the cutting and pasting after
five.
From The New York Times Cook Book, Craig Claiborne, my copy (inherited from
my mom) appears to be 1st 1961 edition. She rated this cookbook and C.
Claiborne pretty highly and I expect an authentic result would be obtained
from this recipe. Certainly the instructions are detailed. In other words, I
suppose this to be a definitive Sacher Torte or else he wouldn't have
bothered to print it. Your worst case scenario, I guess, is a yummy
chocolate cake that is almost like a Sacher Torte. FYI - it is my experience
in baking that, in following a detailed recipe, all the little details are
important especially the mixing insructions, to achieve proper texture of
the finished product. Baking is as much chemistry as it is cooking. Forgive
me if you already know this.
Bon appetit!
- -----------------
Sacher Torte 6 to 8 servings
This cake originated in the famed Sacher Hotel in Vienna.
1/3 cup butter, at room temperature
6 Tablespoons granulated sugar
1/2 cup (3 oz.) semisweet chocolate pieces, melted
4 egg yolks
1/2 cup plus 1 tablespoon sifted flour
5 egg whites
2 1/2 tablespoons apricot jam
1. Preheat oven to moderate (325 F.) Grease and lightly flour a deep
eight-inch spring-form cake pan.
2. Cream the butter, add the sugargradually and cream until fluffy. Add the
chocolate and mix thoroughly, scraping the bottom of the bowl several times.
3. Add the egg yolks one at a time and mix well after each addition. Stir in
the flour until no particles show.
4. Beat the eggwhites until stiff but not dry and gently fold them into the
batter until no white shows.
5. Turn the batter into the prepared pan and bake on the lower shelf of the
oven until the cake shrinks from the sides of the pan and rebounds to the
touch when pressed gently in the center, or about one hour and fifteen
minutes.
6. Let the cake stand ten minutes on a cooling rack before turning out of
the pan. (The cake will shrink slightly on cooling.) Turn the cake out on
the rack, turn right side up and let it finish cooling.
7. Stand the rack and cake on waxed paper and spread the top of the cake
with jam. Pour any desired chocolate icing over the cake and spread it
quickly to coat the top and sides.
- -----------------
Here is a chocolate frosting from the same cookbook :
- -----------------
Chocolate Cream frosting Frosts top and sides of 2 9-inch layers
1 cup (6-oz package) semisweet chocolate pieces
1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon instant coffee
1/4 cup granulated sugar
4 egg yolks
1/2 cup butter
1. In the top of a double boiler heat the chocolate, water, coffee, and
sugar. Stir occasionally until the mixture is smooth.
2. Beat in the egg yolks one at a time and cook over boiling water three
minutes, stirring constantly. Cool to lukewarm and beat in the butter bit by
bit.
- -----------------
(I imagine you could use coffee itself to replace the water and instant
coffee.
- -j)
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:32:44 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n583
Hi Jeremy,
Yikes, this sounds sinfully delicious!
Jeremy, for the heathens among us (including me), could you explain Sacher
and its history a little, please? I know this is off topic, but you know,
man can not live on electrons alone.
Thanks and...
Cheers,
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> Behalf Of Ellen Oler
> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 2:51 PM
> To: Joenet
> Subject: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
>
>
> Since ten people replied in only a few hours I'm going to say this is of
> general interest and post it to the list. Sorry to any chocophobes on the
> JoeNet for the bandwidth but I gave up on the cutting and pasting after
> five.
>
>
(So sadly snipped...)
>
=========================================================================
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:07:29 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n583
Well there is more "straight" history to be found on the Hotel Sacher's web
site (throw Hotel Sacher into a search engine and you'll get it posthaste.)
Here's my Sacher Torte history :
My mom was a fabulous baker, it was in the genes : her grandmother ran a
bakery as does my cousin today. I myself bake the best chocolate chip
cookies to be found on this planet, just ask me. Anyway mom had a Viennese
psychiatrist, a living cliche I suppose, and one time the good Doktor either
brought back or had sent from Vienna a real Sacher Torte. Sometimes they
offer them in fancy restaurants for dessert, so I knew what it was (I
suppose my mom had baked them now and then too) but the real deal is the one
they bake at the Hotel Sacher in Vienna.
Well, all I can say is it must have been extremely good, because every now
and then to this day I get a hankering for some more, and it's probably been
30 years.
I have a pretty strong sweet tooth, especially for the really good baked
stuff, although I do confess to liking your basic stuff too. But my mom
taught me the difference between just your run-of-the-mill sweet, chocolatey
cake and the next step up (think moving from Hammond 125E to Tango) and once
you know, you can never quite go back all the way.
Anyway my wife tells me she thinks a place in the neighborhood might sell
Sacher Torte by the slice which would be good - I can't be trusted alone in
the house with a whole one.
I have so few vices left . . . .
- -j
- ----------
>From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
>To: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>, "Joenet" <sound@lists.io.com>
>Subject: RE: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
>Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000, 8:32 PM
>
>Hi Jeremy,
>Yikes, this sounds sinfully delicious!
>
>Jeremy, for the heathens among us (including me), could you explain Sacher
>and its history a little, please? I know this is off topic, but you know,
>man can not live on electrons alone.
>Thanks and...
>Cheers,
>Paul
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
>> Behalf Of Ellen Oler
>> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 2:51 PM
>> To: Joenet
>> Subject: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
>>
>>
>> Since ten people replied in only a few hours I'm going to say this is of
>> general interest and post it to the list. Sorry to any chocophobes on the
>> JoeNet for the bandwidth but I gave up on the cutting and pasting after
>> five.
>>
>>
>(So sadly snipped...)
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:57:21 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n584
In a message dated 6/17/00 7:15:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
ellenoler@earthlink.net writes:
> her grandmother ran a bakery
Hmmmmm.
My Gramps and two of my uncles had bakeries....
Hmmmmmm
Al
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 16:02:35 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n584
I guess I am more heathenish than I imagined, Jeremy. I thought Sacher was a
Jewish Holiday. Oh well, if ignorance is bliss, I'm one happy dude!
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ellen Oler [mailto:ellenoler@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 10:07 PM
> To: Paul Croft; Joenet
> Subject: Re: [JN] Sacher Torte recipe
>
>
> Well there is more "straight" history to be found on the Hotel
> Sacher's web
> site (throw Hotel Sacher into a search engine and you'll get it
> posthaste.)
(snipped while slavering...)
>
> j
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdjoppa@home.com>
Subject: [JN] Sad news
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:23:45 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n601
I know some of you were at VSAC 98, and might remember the preamp tube
"tasting". Tim Lollar had put together a comparison circuit that kept
all the tubes hot, and allowed switching between them. We listened to
15-20 tubes; it was a great opportunity for those who were there.
Tim died July 5, of cancer, at 42. The world is a poorer place without
his knowledge, enthusiasm, and helpfulness. Dan Schmalle (Doc B.) said
it this way:
"Tim was a fascinating, softspoken guy with a multitude of interests. In
a single phone conversation he could talk knowledgeably about exotic
Altec horn systems, high tech indoor free flight model airplanes,
breeding killifish, or maybe the motorcycle racing team he was wrenching
for. Tim was always quick to offer a helpful suggestion, and showed an
enthusiasm for his passions that was infectious."
I don't think I can improve on that.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: "Riesz, Ted - PETFISH" <Ted.Riesz@isr.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [JN] Sad news
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:58:07 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n601
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEBCE.7B4AE040
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
I did not know Tim but his passing is a great loss
Very sad when one dies young. I had a dear neighbour who also had a lot to
offer and who died of cancer last year at a similar age.
My condolences
Ted Riesz
- -----Original Message-----
Subject: [JN] Sad news
Paul Joppa in part > Tim died July 5, of cancer, at 42. The world is a
poorer place without
his knowledge, enthusiasm, and helpfulness. Dan Schmalle (Doc B.) said
it this way:...
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2650.12">
<TITLE>RE: [JN] Sad news</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I did not know Tim but his passing is a great =
loss</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Very sad when one dies young. I had a dear neighbour =
who also had a lot to offer and who died of cancer last year at a =
similar age.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>My condolences</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ted Riesz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [JN] Sad news</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Paul Joppa in part > Tim died July 5, of cancer, =
at 42. The world is a poorer place without</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>his knowledge, enthusiasm, and helpfulness. Dan =
Schmalle (Doc B.) said</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>it this way:...</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
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=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: SAEC tone arms
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:24:54 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n259
Francois wrote:
>>>The SAEC was a different beast, using the same kind of pivot
(edge/blade)
as the "old" SMEs. And didn't sound very good IMHO<<<
Actually it was quite a different beast to the SME's as it had double knife
edges that were preloaded with some 2Kg of spring pressure to stop the
'chatter' that occurs in all regular knife edge tone arms.
I was the Australian distributor for SAEC for several years in the 80's and
have been using a 407/23 since then with fine results. It is the sonic
equal of any regular headshell arms I am aware of - at least the equal of
the FR-64 for example - as long as a good correct headshell was used. Which
isn't, by the way the "...rather neat ceramic headshell' mention by J Carr
- - that didn't work, at least for me.
Also, most of them had really weird alignments which I got changed by
telling the designer that while "the rest of the world was wrong, of
course" - they would sell more if they could be made to fit the accepted
alignments...nd I had a 23 degree offset angle sample in two weeks!
Recently it's horizontal bearings crapped out for the second time and and I
traded it to Tone Arm Meister Hartmut for something newer...and he seemed
happy enough to have it as a collectors item.
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: connlyra@gol.com
Subject: [JN] Re: SAEC tone arms
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:19:15 +0900
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n260
On 21-08-1999 Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com> wrote:
>Which isn't, by the way the "...rather neat ceramic headshell'
>mention by J Carr - that didn't work, at least for me.<
Sonically, it didn't work for me either ;-). Nonetheless, I still
thought it was a pretty neat piece of worksmanship, especially for
the early 80s. It has the same sort of appeal for me as the FR64S and
its helical VTA rack - I like the look, feel and heft of the
stainless steel, so I keep the 64S around as a static display piece.
>I was the Australian distributor for SAEC for several years in the
>80's and have been using a 407/23 since then with fine results.<
Good for you.
>It is the sonic equal of any regular headshell arms I am aware of -
>at least the equal of the FR-64 for example - as long as a good
>correct headshell was used.<
Debatable, IMHO. And in any case, it will lose out to a more modern
design like the Graham 2.0 or Immedia. But as these are fairly
expensive, today I would suggest the Moerch as offering good sound
for the money, although this is also only my personal experience and
opinion, nothing more.
>Most of them had really weird alignments which I got changed by
>telling the designer that while "the rest of the world was wrong, of
>course" - they would sell more if they could be made to fit the
>accepted alignments...and I had a 23 degree offset angle sample in
>two weeks!<
Two weeks turnaround is very, very fast. I wonder if SAEC wasn't
already sitting on the _right_ blueprints? ;-) In most cases, when
dealing with companies that operate at a more normal, leisurely pace,
we found it faster to have our own headshells machined with the right
geometry when we didn't agree with the designer.
>Recently it's horizontal bearings crapped out for the second time
>and I traded it to Tone Arm Meister Hartmut for something
>newer...and he seemed happy enough to have it as a collectors item.<
LOL! I know the feeling...
best
jcarr
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P Amp/IT cpmments
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 00:05:24 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n536
Hi Steven,
Iv'e been out of town for a week, so am somewhat behind, so some of this
may be redundant. Anyway, if you were on the list a while back you may
recall the test results I reported for the Allied IT. If not, I drove
them with a 6EA7 at around 15 ma, then, using the full secondary in SE,
bridged the transformer with a .1 uf cap. The low rp extends the low
end well below the audio band, but causes the IT to ring. The bridgng
cap controls the ringing caused by the low rp and flattens and extends
the HF response. In this configuration, they perform very well and will
also swing a lot of volts at the low end. With the bridging cap and low
rp, it is dead flat from 20 Hz to several hundred kHz with no overshoot
or ringing. The distortion of the 6EA7 was somewhere around 50 or 55 dB
down at well over a hundred volts PP drive, as I recall.
Of course, the above is using the entire secondary in order to make it
1:1 (therefore bridgable), so this limits the bridging implementation to
SE unless you split in a previous stage and use two driver
transformers. Due to the relatively high winding resistance I would not
try to use it to drive an output tube(s) that requires grid current
drive.
You might have some limited success in driving PP opts with one trannie
if you drive it with a somewhat higher rp tube (to tame the ringing),
but the low end will likely be rolled off and its output voltage swing
capability will only be half as much, plus the HF response will not be
nearly as good. I didn't spend a lot of time trying to optimize it for
PP, as my focus was on SE at the time. You will find it to be much
better suited for SE than PP.
I didn't find the AES ITs to perform well at all, not even in the same
league as the Allied ITs (at least for SE use), and this is, in large
part, due to the Allied's 1:1 ratio, which allows it to be bridged with
a cap to tame the top end. The larger AES IT was better behaved than
the little nickel IT. I did not evaluate the largest, universal AES
IT. All of the cheapie ITs suffered from differing freq and phase
response on the two outputs. One output generally has a rising freq and
leading phase response while the other is rolling off with lagging
phase. This will somewhat tend to even out in the output stage though.
I recently got a pair of Magnequest IT copies of an older Peerless
design (G324A). They also perform very poorly on the high end with
intolerable ringing within the audio band, well below 20 kHz, even with
the recommended driving impedance. They also have considerably different
freq resp and phase response on the two outputs. They are much larger
than the AES and Allied ITs so perform somewhat better on the low end.
Since I had planned to biamp anyway with PP on the low end, they should
be OK for that use. If you come across these particular units, I would
not recommend them for anything other than a bass amp. I bought them on
eBay from Paul Richard (I forget the last name). When I told him how
poorly they performed. He replied "sorry to hear about that, I don't
measure them, I only sell them". So if you buy from him don't expect
him to stand behind what he sells. He sells a lot of new MQ trannies.
I am sure these do not represent the quality of MQ trannies in general,
but these particular units are very poor performers.
DM
> I got the tubes, and the 10k:90k trannies yesterday
> going to try the allied 10k:10k's first, but they are on back order (2
> weeks! ugg) but down the road try others.
>
> i've got some more parts to order, probably today/tomorrow and begin
> working on the power supply.
>
> The whole thing is going to be a bread board Darling ;-) so i can easily
> try different trannies and play around with the circuit before i slap
> together a pretty box..
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:00:00 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n528
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joenetters,
First time posting to the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in =
(?!?).
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically his =
design using a 300B driver stage:
http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html
This is not my first project, so I can mess around with surplus parts in =
the power supply, but I feel that I shouldn't play around with the =
transformers in the signal path: input impedence, interstage and OPT's. =
Best prices I have been able to secure for these beauties totals more =
than $1500!!
Before embarking on this kind of lunacy, I wanted as much feedback on =
the design as I could get. Anyone built a Sakuma design or any kind of =
transformer coupled design? I know that the technology represented here =
is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too cool not to build..........(is =
it still ok to just build stuff for cool factor?---worry about sonics =
later? :) )
Sakuma's website makes quite an impression, wild pictures and accounts =
of him "bonding" with his chassis before he starts to build etc........
I'm sure these designs have been discussed in the past on the Joe list, =
but since I'm a newcomer here, perhaps you all might be so kind as to =
re-share your opinions of his work??
Best,
Dan
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Joenetters,</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First time posting to the =
list..........I hope I'll=20
be welcomed in (?!?).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm deeply considering building =
Sakuma's 845 P/P=20
amp, specifically his design using a 300B driver stage:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html">http://www10.big.or.j=
p/~dh/work/99021.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is not my first project, so I can =
mess around=20
with surplus parts in the power supply, but I feel that I shouldn't play =
around=20
with the transformers in the signal path: input impedence, =
interstage and=20
OPT's. Best prices I have been able to secure for these beauties =
totals=20
more than $1500!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Before embarking on this kind of =
lunacy, I wanted=20
as much feedback on the design as I could get. Anyone built a =
Sakuma=20
design or any kind of transformer coupled design? I know that the=20
technology represented here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too =
cool not to=20
build..........(is it still ok to just build stuff for cool =
factor?---worry=20
about sonics later? :) )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sakuma's website makes quite an =
impression, wild=20
pictures and accounts of him "bonding" with his chassis before he starts =
to=20
build etc........</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm sure these designs have been =
discussed in the=20
past on the Joe list, but since I'm a newcomer here, perhaps you all =
might be so=20
kind as to re-share your opinions of his work??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:00:00 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n529
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BFAED7.B12D4940
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joenetters,
First time posting to the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in =
(?!?).
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically his =
design using a 300B driver stage:
http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html
This is not my first project, so I can mess around with surplus parts in =
the power supply, but I feel that I shouldn't play around with the =
transformers in the signal path: input impedence, interstage and OPT's. =
Best prices I have been able to secure for these beauties totals more =
than $1500!!
Before embarking on this kind of lunacy, I wanted as much feedback on =
the design as I could get. Anyone built a Sakuma design or any kind of =
transformer coupled design? I know that the technology represented here =
is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too cool not to build..........(is =
it still ok to just build stuff for cool factor?---worry about sonics =
later? :) )
Sakuma's website makes quite an impression, wild pictures and accounts =
of him "bonding" with his chassis before he starts to build etc........
I'm sure these designs have been discussed in the past on the Joe list, =
but since I'm a newcomer here, perhaps you all might be so kind as to =
re-share your opinions of his work??
Best,
Dan
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Joenetters,</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First time posting to the =
list..........I hope I'll=20
be welcomed in (?!?).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm deeply considering building =
Sakuma's 845 P/P=20
amp, specifically his design using a 300B driver stage:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html">http://www10.big.or.j=
p/~dh/work/99021.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is not my first project, so I can =
mess around=20
with surplus parts in the power supply, but I feel that I shouldn't play =
around=20
with the transformers in the signal path: input impedence, =
interstage and=20
OPT's. Best prices I have been able to secure for these beauties =
totals=20
more than $1500!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Before embarking on this kind of =
lunacy, I wanted=20
as much feedback on the design as I could get. Anyone built a =
Sakuma=20
design or any kind of transformer coupled design? I know that the=20
technology represented here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too =
cool not to=20
build..........(is it still ok to just build stuff for cool =
factor?---worry=20
about sonics later? :) )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sakuma's website makes quite an =
impression, wild=20
pictures and accounts of him "bonding" with his chassis before he starts =
to=20
build etc........</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm sure these designs have been =
discussed in the=20
past on the Joe list, but since I'm a newcomer here, perhaps you all =
might be so=20
kind as to re-share your opinions of his work??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:34:33 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n529
Well cant speak for the pp845 but i'm starting to build the Darling 1626
with the sukuma style interstage transformers. From what I hear it sounds
great, so i'm giving it a try.
Got my 4 1626's today.. and the 10k-10k interstages. Waiting on the rest
of the parts. I really need to begin PS design.. does anyone have any
really good resources/tutorials online on tube rectifier design? I've
found one or two describing the circuit but nothing on theory/math
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
Steven St.Laurent 403forbidden.net
stevensl@mindspring.net
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Daniel Dicker wrote:
> Hi Joenetters,
>
> First time posting to the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in (?!?).
>
> I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically his design using a 300B driver
stage:
>
> http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html
>
> This is not my first project, so I can mess around with surplus parts in the power supply, but I f
eel that I shouldn't play around with the transformers in the signal path: input impedence, interst
age and OPT's. Best prices I have been able to secure for these beauties totals more than $1500!!
>
> Before embarking on this kind of lunacy, I wanted as much feedback on the design as I could get.
Anyone built a Sakuma design or any kind of transformer coupled design? I know that the technology
represented here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too cool not to build..........(is it still ok
to just build stuff for cool factor?---worry about sonics later? :) )
>
> Sakuma's website makes quite an impression, wild pictures and accounts of him "bonding" with his c
hassis before he starts to build etc........
>
> I'm sure these designs have been discussed in the past on the Joe list, but since I'm a newcomer h
ere, perhaps you all might be so kind as to re-share your opinions of his work??
>
> Best,
>
> Dan
>
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:29:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n529
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFAEFD.5499FCC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel Dicker=20
To: sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: 25 April, 2000 7:00 PM
Subject: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically his =
design using a 300B driver stage:
http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html
...input impedence, interstage and OPT's. Best=20
prices I have been able to secure for these beauties=20
totals more than $1500!!
I hope that one of our Australian listers will
mention the transformer winder who specializes
in the big iron required for a real Sakuma.
Anyone built a Sakuma design or any kind of=20
transformer coupled design? I know that the technology represented =
here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too=20
cool not to build..........(is it still ok to just build stuff=20
for cool factor?---worry about sonics later? :) )
One of the attractions of the Japanese DIY=20
community is the diversity. But Sakuma does what
he does out of necessity--this is how he gets the=20
musical tone which he requires. =20
Somewhere in Sakuma's work he describes the=20
output tubes as the voice of an amp, but the driver
tubes as its lungs. All the iron seems necessary
to convey the power of the driver tubes.
I built an amp inspired by Sakuma's smallest amp.
I made concessions to my own requirements--I made
the amp "stereo," and I used a full-range RIAA EQ.
My amp has limited bandwidth but it has given me a
peek at Sakuma's tone. I have since built a line stage
using output tubes--this might be the easiest and=20
best introduction to Sakuma's ideas.
--Carter
Daniel's message arrived to
me in a graphical format. I hope
this reply is clear to read. Maybe
a computer geek [as compared to
the rest of us] can tell Daniel what
he should turn off on his computer.
=20
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net"=20
title=3Ddbdicker@worldnet.att.net>Daniel Dicker</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com"=20
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com>sound@lists.io.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 25 April, 2000 7:00 =
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P=20
amplifier</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm deeply considering building =
Sakuma's 845 P/P=20
amp, specifically his design using a 300B driver stage:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html">http://www10.big.or.j=
p/~dh/work/99021.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...input impedence, interstage and =
OPT's. =20
Best </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>prices I have been able to secure for =
these=20
beauties </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>totals more than $1500!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I hope that one of our Australian listers =
will</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>mention the transformer winder who =
specializes</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>in the big iron required for a real =
Sakuma.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone built a Sakuma design or any =
kind of=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>transformer coupled design? I =
know that the=20
technology represented here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cool not to build..........(is it =
still ok to=20
just build stuff </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for cool factor?---worry about sonics =
later? :) )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>One of the attractions of the Japanese DIY =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>community is the diversity. But Sakuma=20
does what</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>he does out of necessity--this is how he gets the=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>musical tone which he =
requires. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Somewhere in Sakuma's work he describes the =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>output tubes as the voice of an amp, but the=20
driver</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>tubes as its lungs. All the iron seems=20
necessary</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>to convey the power of the driver =
tubes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I built an amp inspired by Sakuma's smallest=20
amp.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I made concessions to my own requirements--I=20
made</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>the amp "stereo," and I used a full-range RIAA=20
EQ.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My amp has limited bandwidth but it has given me=20
a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>peek at</FONT><FONT size=3D2> Sakuma's tone. =
I have=20
since built a line stage</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>using output tubes--this might be the easiest and=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>best introduction to Sakuma's ideas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> =
=20
=
=20
=
=20
--Carter</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Daniel's message arrived to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>me in a graphical format. I =
hope</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>this reply is clear to read. =
Maybe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>a computer geek [as compared to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>the rest of us] can tell Daniel what</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>he should turn off on his computer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> =
=20
=
=20
=
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: "Joe" <doodle@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:25:24 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n530
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFAF15.E9D2BEE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Grover Gardner=20
To: Daniel Dicker ; sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
At 5:00 PM -0700 4/25/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
Hi Joenetters,
First time posting to the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in =
(?!?).
-snip-
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically =
his design using a 300B driver stage:
Sakuma's demonstration of his 845 amp at the Valve State of the Art =
Conference in Washington state some years back was reportedly =
disappointing to many who were in attendance.=20
-snip-
I was there also...Please remember... the rooms were like elongated =
closets!! However, I enjoyed the bay view from the bar and patio!! =20
Joe Pledger
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:groverg@postoffice.att.net"=20
title=3Dgroverg@postoffice.att.net>Grover Gardner</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net" =
title=3Ddbdicker@worldnet.att.net>Daniel=20
Dicker</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com"=20
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com>sound@lists.io.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 25, 2000 =
10:04=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 =
P/P=20
amplifier</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>At 5:00 PM -0700 4/25/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><?fontfamily><?param Arial>Hi Joenetters,<BR><BR>First time =
posting to=20
the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in (?!?).<BR><FONT =
face=3DCourier=20
size=3D2> -snip-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, =
specifically=20
his design using a 300B driver stage:<BR>Sakuma's demonstration of =
his 845=20
amp at the Valve State of the Art Conference in Washington state =
some years=20
back was reportedly disappointing to many who were in attendance. =
</DIV>
<DIV> -snip-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I was there also...Please remember... the rooms were like =
elongated=20
closets!! However, I enjoyed the bay view from the bar and =
patio!! =20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joe Pledger</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFAF15.E9D2BEE0--
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:04:31 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n530
- --============_-1255396664==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 5:00 PM -0700 4/25/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
>Hi Joenetters,
>
>First time posting to the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in (?!?).
>
>I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically=20
>his design using a 300B driver stage:
>
><http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html>http://www10.big.or.jp/~d=20
>h/work/99021.html
>
>This is not my first project, so I can mess around with surplus=20
>parts in the power supply, but I feel that I shouldn't play around=20
>with the transformers in the signal path: input impedence,=20
>interstage and OPT's. Best prices I have been able to secure for=20
>these beauties totals more than $1500!!
>
>Before embarking on this kind of lunacy, I wanted as much feedback=20
>on the design as I could get. Anyone built a Sakuma design or any=20
>kind of transformer coupled design? I know that the technology=20
>represented here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too cool not=20
>to build..........(is it still ok to just build stuff for cool=20
>factor?---worry about sonics later? :) )
>
>Sakuma's website makes quite an impression, wild pictures and=20
>accounts of him "bonding" with his chassis before he starts to build=20
>etc........
>
>I'm sure these designs have been discussed in the past on the Joe=20
>list, but since I'm a newcomer here, perhaps you all might be so=20
>kind as to re-share your opinions of his work??
>
>Best,
>
>Dan
You are very welcome here!
Sakuma's demonstration of his 845 amp at the Valve State of the Art=20
Conference in Washington state some years back was reportedly=20
disappointing to many who were in attendance. One transformer maker=20
of my acquaintance was not surprised, saying to me, "What can you=20
expect when you throw all those various impedances together in one=20
circuit?" or something to that effect. Others have said that the amp=20
may have worked well on a Lowther or specific horn system, but the=20
sound didn't translate well to other environments. At any rate, I=20
personally have not been tempted to spend $1500+ to find out for=20
myself. If you want to transformer-couple, there are simpler and=20
cheaper ways to do it. There are also some very good designs out=20
there that use simple RC coupling networks.
In Sakuma's defense, I will say that some people have tried the=20
operating points he suggests for his various tubes, and report that=20
there is something special about these choices. There have also been=20
positive comments from people who have built "Sakuma-style" amps,=20
i.e., using transformer coupling and power tubes to drive like power=20
tubes. But I don't know of anyone who has attempted to exactly=20
duplicate a Sakuma design and reported back to this list about it,=20
unless I missed something.
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
- --============_-1255396664==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 5:00 PM -0700 4/25/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param>Hi Joenetters,
=20
=46irst time posting to the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in
(?!?).
=20
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically his
design using a 300B driver stage:
=20
<<http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html>http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work=
/99021.html
=20
This is not my first project, so I can mess around with surplus parts
in the power supply, but I feel that I shouldn't play around with the
transformers in the signal path: input impedence, interstage and
OPT's. Best prices I have been able to secure for these beauties
totals more than $1500!!
=20
Before embarking on this kind of lunacy, I wanted as much feedback on
the design as I could get. Anyone built a Sakuma design or any kind of
transformer coupled design? I know that the technology represented
here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too cool not to
build..........(is it still ok to just build stuff for cool
factor?---worry about sonics later? :) )
=20
Sakuma's website makes quite an impression, wild pictures and accounts
of him "bonding" with his chassis before he starts to build
etc........
=20
I'm sure these designs have been discussed in the past on the Joe list,
but since I'm a newcomer here, perhaps you all might be so kind as to
re-share your opinions of his work??
=20
Best,
=20
Dan
</fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param>
</fontfamily>You are very welcome here!
Sakuma's demonstration of his 845 amp at the Valve State of the Art
Conference in Washington state some years back was reportedly
disappointing to many who were in attendance. One transformer maker
of my acquaintance was not surprised, saying to me, "What can you
expect when you throw all those various impedances together in one
circuit?" or something to that effect. Others have said that the amp
may have worked well on a Lowther or specific horn system, but the
sound didn't translate well to other environments. At any rate, I
personally have not been tempted to spend $1500+ to find out for
myself. If you want to transformer-couple, there are simpler and
cheaper ways to do it. There are also some very good designs out there
that use simple RC coupling networks.=20
In Sakuma's defense, I will say that some people have tried the
operating points he suggests for his various tubes, and report that
there is something special about these choices. There have also been
positive comments from people who have built "Sakuma-style" amps, i.e.,
using transformer coupling and power tubes to drive like power tubes.=20
But I don't know of anyone who has attempted to exactly duplicate a
Sakuma design and reported back to this list about it, unless I missed
something.
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
- --============_-1255396664==_ma============--
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:20:47 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n530
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BFAF60.B506B4A0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Carter,
Thanks for the informative reply, also the posting from one STC DIY'er =
in Japan. These few postings have helped dissuade me from building =
this, I guess......anything less than a rave review could dissuade me =
from making such a frivolous purchase! =20
OK, then. Now I'm still stuck on my next project. I've really got it =
good for some old fashioned transmitting tube as the output tube like an =
845, 211....new SV572 series, etc. and really want to build a P/P =
amplifier. Anybody with a bright idea or schematic? I'm not an =
engineer so I can't do it myself but give me a schematic and I'm off to =
the races.
Dan
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Carter Hendricks=20
To: Daniel Dicker ; sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel Dicker=20
To: sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: 25 April, 2000 7:00 PM
Subject: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically =
his design using a 300B driver stage:
http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html
...input impedence, interstage and OPT's. Best=20
prices I have been able to secure for these beauties=20
totals more than $1500!!
I hope that one of our Australian listers will
mention the transformer winder who specializes
in the big iron required for a real Sakuma.
Anyone built a Sakuma design or any kind of=20
transformer coupled design? I know that the technology represented =
here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just too=20
cool not to build..........(is it still ok to just build stuff=20
for cool factor?---worry about sonics later? :) )
One of the attractions of the Japanese DIY=20
community is the diversity. But Sakuma does what
he does out of necessity--this is how he gets the=20
musical tone which he requires. =20
Somewhere in Sakuma's work he describes the=20
output tubes as the voice of an amp, but the driver
tubes as its lungs. All the iron seems necessary
to convey the power of the driver tubes.
I built an amp inspired by Sakuma's smallest amp.
I made concessions to my own requirements--I made
the amp "stereo," and I used a full-range RIAA EQ.
My amp has limited bandwidth but it has given me a
peek at Sakuma's tone. I have since built a line stage
using output tubes--this might be the easiest and=20
best introduction to Sakuma's ideas.
--Carter
Daniel's message arrived to
me in a graphical format. I hope
this reply is clear to read. Maybe
a computer geek [as compared to
the rest of us] can tell Daniel what
he should turn off on his computer.
=20
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Carter,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the informative reply, also =
the posting=20
from one STC DIY'er in Japan. These few postings have helped =
dissuade me=20
from building this, I guess......anything less than a rave review could =
dissuade=20
me from making such a frivolous purchase! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OK, then. Now I'm still =
stuck on my=20
next project. I've really got it good for some old fashioned =
transmitting=20
tube as the output tube like an 845, 211....new SV572 series, etc. =
and=20
really want to build a P/P amplifier. Anybody with a bright =
idea or=20
schematic? I'm not an engineer so I can't do it myself but =
give me a=20
schematic and I'm off to the races.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:carter@i1.net" title=3Dcarter@i1.net>Carter =
Hendricks</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net" =
title=3Ddbdicker@worldnet.att.net>Daniel=20
Dicker</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com"=20
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com>sound@lists.io.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 25, 2000 =
7:29=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 =
P/P=20
amplifier</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net"=20
title=3Ddbdicker@worldnet.att.net>Daniel Dicker</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com"=20
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com>sound@lists.io.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 25 April, 2000 7:00 =
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [JN] Sakuma's 845 =
P/P=20
amplifier</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm deeply considering building =
Sakuma's 845=20
P/P amp, specifically his design using a 300B driver =
stage:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html">http://www10.big.or.j=
p/~dh/work/99021.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...input impedence, interstage and =
OPT's. =20
Best </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>prices I have been able to secure =
for these=20
beauties </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>totals more than =
$1500!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I hope that one of our Australian listers=20
will</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>mention the transformer winder who=20
specializes</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>in the big iron required for a real =
Sakuma.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone built a Sakuma design or any =
kind of=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>transformer coupled design? I =
know that=20
the technology represented here is vintage 1930's, but it looks just =
too=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cool not to build..........(is it =
still ok to=20
just build stuff </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for cool factor?---worry about =
sonics=20
later? :) )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>One of the attractions of the Japanese DIY =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>community is the diversity. But Sakuma=20
does what</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>he does out of necessity--this is how he gets =
the=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>musical tone which he =
requires. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Somewhere in Sakuma's work he describes the =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>output tubes as the voice of an amp, but the=20
driver</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>tubes as its lungs. All the iron seems=20
necessary</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>to convey the power of the driver =
tubes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I built an amp inspired by Sakuma's smallest=20
amp.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I made concessions to my own =
requirements--I=20
made</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>the amp "stereo," and I used a full-range RIAA=20
EQ.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My amp has limited bandwidth but it has given me =
a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>peek at</FONT><FONT size=3D2> Sakuma's =
tone. I have=20
since built a line stage</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>using output tubes--this might be the easiest =
and=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>best introduction to Sakuma's =
ideas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> =
=20
=
=20
=
=20
--Carter</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Daniel's message arrived to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>me in a graphical format. I =
hope</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>this reply is clear to read. =
Maybe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>a computer geek [as compared to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>the rest of us] can tell Daniel =
what</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>he should turn off on his computer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> =
=20
=
=20
=20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BFAF60.B506B4A0--
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:29:42 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n530
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BFAF61.F3DD0520
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Grover,
Comments embedded.
You are very welcome here!
Sakuma's demonstration of his 845 amp at the Valve State of the Art =
Conference in Washington state some years back was reportedly =
disappointing to many who were in attendance.
>Thanks!! Useful info!
One transformer maker of my acquaintance was not surprised, saying to =
me, "What can you expect when you throw all those various impedances =
together in one circuit?" or something to that effect.=20
>When I originally looked at the project, I knew that the quality of =
the transformers would make all the difference, but this disappointment, =
even using very pricey Japanese iron.........well, that kinda convinces =
that this project wouldn't be optimal.
Others have said that the amp may have worked well on a Lowther or =
specific horn system, but the sound didn't translate well to other =
environments. At any rate, I personally have not been tempted to spend =
$1500+ to find out for myself. If you want to transformer-couple, there =
are simpler and cheaper ways to do it. There are also some very good =
designs out there that use simple RC coupling networks.=20
>Ok, Grover, here's your chance to enlighten me.....I need "very good =
design" using transmitting tube like the 845 (if not exactly the 845) in =
P/P. Could you help me out??
In Sakuma's defense, I will say that some people have tried the =
operating points he suggests for his various tubes, and report that =
there is something special about these choices. There have also been =
positive comments from people who have built "Sakuma-style" amps, i.e., =
using transformer coupling and power tubes to drive like power tubes. =
But I don't know of anyone who has attempted to exactly duplicate a =
Sakuma design and reported back to this list about it, unless I missed =
something.
-------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net=20
- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BFAF61.F3DD0520
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Grover,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Comments embedded.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>You are very welcome here!<BR><BR>Sakuma's demonstration of his =
845 amp=20
at the Valve State of the Art Conference in Washington state some =
years back=20
was reportedly disappointing to many who were in attendance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Thanks!! Useful =
info!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> One transformer maker of my acquaintance was not surprised, =
saying=20
to me, "What can you expect when you throw all those various =
impedances=20
together in one circuit?" or something to that effect. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>When I originally looked at the =
project, I=20
knew that the quality of the transformers would make all the =
difference, but=20
this disappointment, even using very pricey Japanese =
iron.........well, that=20
kinda convinces that this project wouldn't be optimal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Others have said that the amp may have worked well on a Lowther =
or=20
specific horn system, but the sound didn't translate well to other=20
environments. At any rate, I personally have not been tempted to spend =
$1500+=20
to find out for myself. If you want to transformer-couple, there are =
simpler=20
and cheaper ways to do it. There are also some very good designs out =
there=20
that use simple RC coupling networks. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Ok, Grover, here's your chance to =
enlighten=20
me.....I need "very good design" using transmitting tube like =
the 845=20
(if not exactly the 845) in P/P. Could you help me=20
out??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>In Sakuma's defense, I will say that some people have tried =
the=20
operating points he suggests for his various tubes, and report that =
there is=20
something special about these choices. There have also been positive =
comments=20
from people who have built "Sakuma-style" amps, i.e., using =
transformer=20
coupling and power tubes to drive like power tubes. But I don't know =
of anyone=20
who has attempted to exactly duplicate a Sakuma design and reported =
back to=20
this list about it, unless I missed =
something.<BR><BR><BR>-------<BR>Grover=20
Gardner<BR>groverg@postoffice.att.net =
</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BFAF61.F3DD0520--
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:46:46 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n531
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01BFAF64.564C61E0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Joe,
You are right........most "displays" of equipment leave much to be =
desired. =20
I was on the bad end of this truth recently when a speaker system I had =
been working on with Orca design and Zalytron was "displayed" at the =
NYNOISE show here in NY. =20
Of course, the system was completed 3 days before the =
show........Drivers didn't have a reasonable time to break in, Crossover =
not correctly designed and tweaked.......Sonics in the room god-awful. =
And I stressed..............then I realized that much of the purpose of =
these "shows" is not to display new DIY work but to allow all of us =
crazies to get together and chew the fat for a few hours........nobody's =
really listening anyway. Even so, my speaker "did" better than some =
other designs: one amplifier that was built that morning in JC's lab =
BLEW UP on the spot on turn on! (That was actually the neatest part of =
the show) :-)
If you're interested, the design of the speaker is displayed on the =
front page of the Zalytron site:
http://www.zalytron.com
It was dubbed the "NYNOISE" maker.......whatta ridiculous moniker. It =
uses the Raven R-3 midrange/tweeter in a simple 2-way design. All I can =
say is it sounds a helluva lot better in my room now than it did at the =
show!!
- -Dan
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Joe=20
To: Daniel Dicker ; sound@lists.io.com ; Grover Gardner=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Grover Gardner=20
To: Daniel Dicker ; sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
At 5:00 PM -0700 4/25/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
Hi Joenetters,
First time posting to the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in =
(?!?).
-snip-
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically =
his design using a 300B driver stage:
Sakuma's demonstration of his 845 amp at the Valve State of the =
Art Conference in Washington state some years back was reportedly =
disappointing to many who were in attendance.=20
-snip-
I was there also...Please remember... the rooms were like =
elongated closets!! However, I enjoyed the bay view from the bar and =
patio!! =20
Joe Pledger
- ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01BFAF64.564C61E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joe,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You are right........most "displays" of =
equipment=20
leave much to be desired. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was on the bad end of this truth =
recently when a=20
speaker system I had been working on with Orca design and Zalytron was=20
"displayed" at the NYNOISE show here in NY. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of course, the system was completed 3 =
days before=20
the show........Drivers didn't have a reasonable time to break in, =
Crossover not=20
correctly designed and tweaked.......Sonics in the room =
god-awful. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And I stressed..............then I =
realized that=20
much of the purpose of these "shows" is not to display new DIY work =
but to=20
allow all of us crazies to get together and chew the fat for a few=20
hours........nobody's really listening anyway. Even so, my speaker =
"did"=20
better than some other designs: one amplifier that was built that =
morning in=20
JC's lab BLEW UP on the spot on turn on! (That was actually =
the=20
neatest part of the show) :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you're interested, the design of the =
speaker is=20
displayed on the front page of the Zalytron site:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.zalytron.com">http://www.zalytron.com</A></FONT></DIV>=
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It was dubbed the "NYNOISE" =
maker.......whatta=20
ridiculous moniker. It uses the Raven R-3 midrange/tweeter =
in a=20
simple 2-way design. All I can say is it sounds a helluva lot =
better in my=20
room now than it did at the show!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Dan</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:doodle@teleport.com" =
title=3Ddoodle@teleport.com>Joe</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net" =
title=3Ddbdicker@worldnet.att.net>Daniel=20
Dicker</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com"=20
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com>sound@lists.io.com</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:groverg@postoffice.att.net"=20
title=3Dgroverg@postoffice.att.net>Grover Gardner</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 26, 2000 =
12:25=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 =
P/P=20
amplifier</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:groverg@postoffice.att.net"=20
title=3Dgroverg@postoffice.att.net>Grover Gardner</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net"=20
title=3Ddbdicker@worldnet.att.net>Daniel Dicker</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com"=20
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com>sound@lists.io.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 25, 2000 =
10:04=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JN] Sakuma's =
845 P/P=20
amplifier</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>At 5:00 PM -0700 4/25/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><?fontfamily><?param Arial>Hi Joenetters,<BR><BR>First time =
posting=20
to the list..........I hope I'll be welcomed in (?!?).<BR><FONT=20
face=3DCourier size=3D2> -snip-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp,=20
specifically his design using a 300B driver stage:<BR>Sakuma's=20
demonstration of his 845 amp at the Valve State of the Art =
Conference in=20
Washington state some years back was reportedly disappointing to =
many who=20
were in attendance. </DIV>
<DIV> -snip-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I was there also...Please remember... the rooms were like =
elongated=20
closets!! However, I enjoyed the bay view from the bar and =
patio!! =20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joe Pledger</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
=
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01BFAF64.564C61E0--
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:25:11 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n531
- --============_-1255363346==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
At 9:29 AM -0700 4/26/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
>
>
> >Ok, Grover, here's your chance to enlighten me.....I need "very
>good design" using transmitting tube like the 845 (if not exactly
>the 845) in P/P. Could you help me out??
>
Well, now that I've opened my big yap :-) I've looked around and
there actually aren't that many PP 845 designs floating around out
there. Paul de Leclerc has written an excellent article about his
attempts, which is at:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9170/813main.htm
and Kurt Strain has been very happy with his design, which uses 27s
and IT coupling--but he's changed his URL and I can't find the
schematic--does anyone know his new site?
OTOH, this might be a fun way to take everyone's mind off some
threatening silliness here, so what if we came up with one?
Three approaches:
1) Classic Williamson design using something a little beefier than
6SN7 for driver (or not?);
2) High-gain differential phase splitter up front and medium-gain
triode driver stages;
3) Single-ended input stage to, say, SV811-10 driving IT phase splitter.
Question: Will a good IT provide the required voltage swing, say 100-150V rms?
Off the top of my head, I'd say 12AT7 or 417A cap-coupled to
choke-loaded SV811-10 in fixed bias, then parafeeding a quality 1:1
IT. Outputs could be 845s or triode-wired 813s, fixed bias, at
750-1000VDC Class A, with 6-8K OPT.
If we switch to 211s, we can dramatically reduce the required voltage
swing and idle current, but I think you also have to run these right
up to 1200 volts for good sound. SV572-3 is another way to go, but
these require very high idle current, like 120-150mA per tube.
An alternative is to move the IT closer up front to the input stage
to reduce the required voltage swing, so we'd have:
Input stage (417A/5842?), IT, then two choke-loaded SV811-10s driving outputs.
Anyone care to chime in?
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
- --============_-1255363346==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
At 9:29 AM -0700 4/26/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
<excerpt><paraindent><param>right,left</param>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param>>Ok, Grover, here's your chance to
enlighten me.....I need "very good design" using transmitting tube
like the 845 (if not exactly the 845) in P/P. Could you help me
out??
</fontfamily></paraindent></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param>
</fontfamily>Well, now that I've opened my big yap :-) I've looked
around and there actually aren't that many PP 845 designs floating
around out there. Paul de Leclerc has written an excellent article
about his attempts, which is at:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9170/813main.htm
and Kurt Strain has been very happy with his design, which uses 27s and
IT coupling--but he's changed his URL and I can't find the
schematic--does anyone know his new site?
OTOH, this might be a fun way to take everyone's mind off some
threatening silliness here, so what if we came up with one?
Three approaches:
1) Classic Williamson design using something a little beefier than
6SN7 for driver (or not?);
2) High-gain differential phase splitter up front and medium-gain
triode driver stages;
3) Single-ended input stage to, say, SV811-10 driving IT phase
splitter.
Question: Will a good IT provide the required voltage swing, say
100-150V rms?
Off the top of my head, I'd say 12AT7 or 417A cap-coupled to
choke-loaded SV811-10 in fixed bias, then parafeeding a quality 1:1 IT.
Outputs could be 845s or triode-wired 813s, fixed bias, at 750-1000VDC
Class A, with 6-8K OPT.
If we switch to 211s, we can dramatically reduce the required voltage
swing and idle current, but I think you also have to run these right up
to 1200 volts for good sound. SV572-3 is another way to go, but these
require very high idle current, like 120-150mA per tube.
An alternative is to move the IT closer up front to the input stage to
reduce the required voltage swing, so we'd have:
Input stage (417A/5842?), IT, then two choke-loaded SV811-10s driving
outputs.
Anyone care to chime in?
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
- --============_-1255363346==_ma============--
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:30:06 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n531
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFAF6A.6390EE60
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OH GOODY!!!
I've got the brainchildren working FOR ME!!
What a great idea......have the brilliante 's of the venerable Joelist =
make up the perfect project amp!
I can't wait to see what results :-)
Dan
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Grover Gardner=20
To: Daniel Dicker=20
Cc: sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
At 9:29 AM -0700 4/26/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
>Ok, Grover, here's your chance to enlighten me.....I need "very =
good design" using transmitting tube like the 845 (if not exactly the =
845) in P/P. Could you help me out??
Well, now that I've opened my big yap :-) I've looked around and there =
actually aren't that many PP 845 designs floating around out there. Paul =
de Leclerc has written an excellent article about his attempts, which is =
at:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9170/813main.htm
and Kurt Strain has been very happy with his design, which uses 27s =
and IT coupling--but he's changed his URL and I can't find the =
schematic--does anyone know his new site?
OTOH, this might be a fun way to take everyone's mind off some =
threatening silliness here, so what if we came up with one?
Three approaches:
1) Classic Williamson design using something a little beefier than =
6SN7 for driver (or not?);
2) High-gain differential phase splitter up front and medium-gain =
triode driver stages;
3) Single-ended input stage to, say, SV811-10 driving IT phase =
splitter.
Question: Will a good IT provide the required voltage swing, say =
100-150V rms?
Off the top of my head, I'd say 12AT7 or 417A cap-coupled to =
choke-loaded SV811-10 in fixed bias, then parafeeding a quality 1:1 IT. =
Outputs could be 845s or triode-wired 813s, fixed bias, at 750-1000VDC =
Class A, with 6-8K OPT.
If we switch to 211s, we can dramatically reduce the required voltage =
swing and idle current, but I think you also have to run these right up =
to 1200 volts for good sound. SV572-3 is another way to go, but these =
require very high idle current, like 120-150mA per tube.=20
An alternative is to move the IT closer up front to the input stage to =
reduce the required voltage swing, so we'd have:
Input stage (417A/5842?), IT, then two choke-loaded SV811-10s driving =
outputs.
Anyone care to chime in?
-------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net=20
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFAF6A.6390EE60
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OH GOODY!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got the brainchildren working FOR=20
ME!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What a great idea......have the =
brilliante 's of=20
the venerable Joelist make up the perfect project amp!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can't wait to see what =
results =20
:-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:groverg@postoffice.att.net"=20
title=3Dgroverg@postoffice.att.net>Grover Gardner</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net" =
title=3Ddbdicker@worldnet.att.net>Daniel=20
Dicker</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com"=20
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com>sound@lists.io.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 26, 2000 =
7:25=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 =
P/P=20
amplifier</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>At 9:29 AM -0700 4/26/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><?paraindent><?param =
right,left><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param Arial>>Ok,=20
Grover, here's your chance to enlighten me.....I need "very good =
design"=20
using transmitting tube like the 845 (if not exactly the 845) in =
P/P. Could=20
you help me =
out??<BR><BR><?/fontfamily><?/paraindent></BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?para=
m Arial><BR><?/fontfamily>Well,=20
now that I've opened my big yap :-) I've looked around and there =
actually=20
aren't that many PP 845 designs floating around out there. Paul de =
Leclerc has=20
written an excellent article about his attempts, which is=20
=
at:<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9170/813main.htm<BR><BR=
>and=20
Kurt Strain has been very happy with his design, which uses 27s and IT =
coupling--but he's changed his URL and I can't find the =
schematic--does anyone=20
know his new site?<BR><BR>OTOH, this might be a fun way to take =
everyone's=20
mind off some threatening silliness here, so what if we came up with=20
one?<BR><BR>Three approaches:<BR><BR>1) Classic Williamson design =
using=20
something a little beefier than 6SN7 for driver (or not?);<BR><BR>2) =
High-gain=20
differential phase splitter up front and medium-gain triode driver=20
stages;<BR><BR>3) Single-ended input stage to, say, SV811-10 driving =
IT phase=20
splitter.<BR><BR>Question: Will a good IT provide the required voltage =
swing,=20
say 100-150V rms?<BR><BR>Off the top of my head, I'd say 12AT7 or 417A =
cap-coupled to choke-loaded SV811-10 in fixed bias, then parafeeding a =
quality=20
1:1 IT. Outputs could be 845s or triode-wired 813s, fixed bias, at =
750-1000VDC=20
Class A, with 6-8K OPT.<BR>If we switch to 211s, we can dramatically =
reduce=20
the required voltage swing and idle current, but I think you also have =
to run=20
these right up to 1200 volts for good sound. SV572-3 is another way to =
go, but=20
these require very high idle current, like 120-150mA per tube. =
<BR><BR>An=20
alternative is to move the IT closer up front to the input stage to =
reduce the=20
required voltage swing, so we'd have:<BR><BR>Input stage (417A/5842?), =
IT,=20
then two choke-loaded SV811-10s driving outputs.<BR><BR>Anyone care to =
chime=20
in?<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-------<BR>Grover =
Gardner<BR>groverg@postoffice.att.net=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFAF6A.6390EE60--
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:39:54 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n531
Daniel Dicker wrote :
> OK, then. Now I'm still stuck on my next project. I've really got it =
> good for some old fashioned transmitting tube as the output tube like an =
> 845, 211....new SV572 series, etc. and really want to build a P/P =
> amplifier. Anybody with a bright idea or schematic?
Welcome Daniel. Ignore the Jute crap on the list, hopefully it'll be
over soon.
Roscoe Primrose's 845 amp didn't sound too shabby to me at nyNoise.
Roscoe, care to chime in here?
The "Sakuma Style" Darling Bob Danielak has built has some very
endearing qualities, I think it would be well worth experimenting with
although it would have nowhere near the power of an 845 amp. I fervently
hope Steven Von Der St. Laurent will report back with his results
please.
Unless y'all would rather read Who's Fueding With Who? Me, I'm with
Conrad.
Bob initially disliked the Sakuma-Darling and mailed it to me for
evaluation, because I was curious about it and because he was really
busy at work at that time. There was nothing wrong with the amp : it had
just presented a poor match impedance-wise to the preamp he was using to
evaluate it. In my system, and later on, in the AnnaLogg's, it sang like
a bird and was a big favorite of mine in a shootout in a group of
Darlings. It's a VERY musical, enjoyable amp. Frequency extremes are a
little rolled off but the quality of the transformers will have a lot to
say about this. I would use a better output tranny than the Hammond
125E, maybe the Fender Champ tranny or something even better, and the
"nickel wonder" should probably be avoided for the interstage, probably
the 15 dollar Allied IT would work better there, or perhaps even the
Lundahl SE-SE experimenter interstages. In any case, you'd drive out of
the showroom for a *little* less than 1500 bucks and I bet you'd have a
killer diller amp, albeit a flea-powered one.
- -j
- --
===========================================
Jeremy Epstein .........jepstein@ndbcap.com
===========================================
=========================================================================
From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:01:54 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n531
I got the tubes, and the 10k:90k trannies yesterday
going to try the allied 10k:10k's first, but they are on back order (2
weeks! ugg) but down the road try others.
i've got some more parts to order, probably today/tomorrow and begin
working on the power supply.
The whole thing is going to be a bread board Darling ;-) so i can easily
try different trannies and play around with the circuit before i slap
together a pretty box..
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Jeremy Epstein wrote:
> The "Sakuma Style" Darling Bob Danielak has built has some very
> endearing qualities, I think it would be well worth experimenting with
> although it would have nowhere near the power of an 845 amp. I fervently
> hope Steven Von Der St. Laurent will report back with his results
> please.
>
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:57:50 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n531
Grover Gardner wrote:
Snip...
> OTOH, this might be a fun way to take everyone's mind off some threatening > silliness here, so wh
at if we came up with one?
> 3) Single-ended input stage to, say, SV811-10 driving IT phase splitter.
>
I knida like this approach, and it's more Sakuma-like, which the
original pster had an interest in anyway. I think the comments about
Sakuma's amps not being ideal for modern wide-bandwidth recordings may
be applicable to his specific implementation with transformer
impeadance mismatches etc. but not necessarily applicable to all
transformer coupled or the extensive use of power tubes as drivers.
How about a Sovtek 2A3 as a driver?
> Question: Will a good IT provide the required voltage swing, say 100-150V rms?
A good one, yes, but the cost can be quite high.
>
> Off the top of my head, I'd say 12AT7 or 417A cap-coupled to choke-loaded > SV811-10 in fixed bias
, then parafeeding a quality 1:1 IT. Outputs could be 845s > or triode-wired 813s, fixed bias, at 75
0-1000VDC Class A, with 6-8K OPT.
> If we switch to 211s, we can dramatically reduce the required voltage swing and > idle current, bu
t I think you also have to run these right up to 1200 volts for > good sound. SV572-3 is another way
to go, but these require very high idle > current, like 120-150mA per tube.
The 813 would require significantly lower voltage swing as well, but
some may be concerned about the plate caps if they have small children
around (and want to keep them around ;-) ).
>
> An alternative is to move the IT closer up front to the input stage to reduce > the required volta
ge swing, so we'd have:
>
> Input stage (417A/5842?), IT, then two choke-loaded SV811-10s driving outputs.
Exactly what I was thinking before I even got this far down the
message. Let's see, low budget test-bed: 5842->Allied
IT->Sovtek2A3s->Two more Allied ITs? (Especially if we use something
with less voltage swing requirement than an 845)->output tube of
choice->OPT of choice, which will depend on the output tube we choose.
For the PS, a dual supply probably, with a 300VB+ for the input (with
dropping resistors or VR tubes to get B+ down to about 150V for the
input tube), then an appropriate HV supply depending on output tube
selected.
>
> Anyone care to chime in?
>
Ding!
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com --
http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@transport.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:30:16 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n531
Dan, take a look at
http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/saints/668/primer/845-pp.gif
<http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/saints/668/primer/845-pp.gif>
Power supply at http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/saints/668/primer/845-ps.gif
<http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/saints/668/primer/845-ps.gif>
Some text at http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/saints/668/primer/pp.html
<http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/saints/668/primer/pp.html>
It is JC Morrison's design of PP845 from his Fi Primer. Should be a goodie.
Grant
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@transport.sa.gov.au
- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Dicker [mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, 27 April 2000 1:51 AM
To: Carter Hendricks
Cc: sound@lists.io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Carter,
Thanks for the informative reply, also the posting from one STC DIY'er in
Japan. These few postings have helped dissuade me from building this, I
guess......anything less than a rave review could dissuade me from making
such a frivolous purchase!
OK, then. Now I'm still stuck on my next project. I've really got it good
for some old fashioned transmitting tube as the output tube like an 845,
211....new SV572 series, etc. and really want to build a P/P amplifier.
Anybody with a bright idea or schematic? I'm not an engineer so I can't do
it myself but give me a schematic and I'm off to the races.
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Carter Hendricks <mailto:carter@i1.net>
To: Daniel Dicker <mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net> ; sound@lists.io.com
<mailto:sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Dicker <mailto:dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
To: sound@lists.io.com <mailto:sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: 25 April, 2000 7:00 PM
Subject: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically his
design using a 300B driver stage:
http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html
<http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/work/99021.html>
...input impedence, interstage and OPT's. Best
prices I have been able to secure for these beauties
totals more than $1500!!
I hope that one of our Australian listers will
mention the transformer winder who specializes
in the big iron required for a real Sakuma.
Anyone built a Sakuma design or any kind of
transformer coupled design? I know that the technology represented here is
vintage 1930's, but it looks just too
cool not to build..........(is it still ok to just build stuff
for cool factor?---worry about sonics later? :) )
One of the attractions of the Japanese DIY
community is the diversity. But Sakuma does what
he does out of necessity--this is how he gets the
musical tone which he requires.
Somewhere in Sakuma's work he describes the
output tubes as the voice of an amp, but the driver
tubes as its lungs. All the iron seems necessary
to convey the power of the driver tubes.
I built an amp inspired by Sakuma's smallest amp.
I made concessions to my own requirements--I made
the amp "stereo," and I used a full-range RIAA EQ.
My amp has limited bandwidth but it has given me a
peek at Sakuma's tone. I have since built a line stage
using output tubes--this might be the easiest and
best introduction to Sakuma's ideas.
--Carter
Daniel's message arrived to
me in a graphical format. I hope
this reply is clear to read. Maybe
a computer geek [as compared to
the rest of us] can tell Daniel what
he should turn off on his computer.
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel Dicker" <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:15:02 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n532
The schematic for the speaker can be seen at:
http://www.zalytron.com/Schematics/991201a.jpg
The crossover there is significantly different from the one I finally ended
up with, but the units and general idea is the same.
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
To: Daniel Dicker <dbdicker@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
>
> just curious, what mid/woofer does this use?
>
>
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Daniel Dicker wrote:
>
> >
> > I was on the bad end of this truth recently when a speaker system I had
been working on with Orca design and Zalytron was "displayed" at the NYNOISE
show here in NY.
> >
> > Of course, the system was completed 3 days before the
show........Drivers didn't have a reasonable time to break in, Crossover not
correctly designed and tweaked.......Sonics in the room god-awful.
> > And I stressed..............then I realized that much of the purpose of
these "shows" is not to display new DIY work but to allow all of us crazies
to get together and chew the fat for a few hours........nobody's really
listening anyway. Even so, my speaker "did" better than some other designs:
one amplifier that was built that morning in JC's lab BLEW UP on the spot on
turn on! (That was actually the neatest part of the show) :-)
> >
> > If you're interested, the design of the speaker is displayed on the
front page of the Zalytron site:
> > http://www.zalytron.com
> > It was dubbed the "NYNOISE" maker.......whatta ridiculous moniker. It
uses the Raven R-3 midrange/tweeter in a simple 2-way design. All I can say
is it sounds a helluva lot better in my room now than it did at the show!!
> >
>
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:17:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n532
- --============_-1255360267==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
At 9:46 AM -0700 4/26/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
>
>If you're interested, the design of the speaker is displayed on the
>front page of the Zalytron site:
><http://www.zalytron.com>http://www.zalytron.com
>It was dubbed the "NYNOISE" maker.......whatta ridiculous moniker.
>It uses the Raven R-3 midrange/tweeter in a simple 2-way design.
>All I can say is it sounds a helluva lot better in my room now than
>it did at the show!!
>
>-Dan
One of our DC DIYers has built the Zalytron Arias, a D'Appolito
design with the Raven tweeter, and it is extremely satisfying to
listen to with 300Bs.
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
- --============_-1255360267==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
At 9:46 AM -0700 4/26/00, Daniel Dicker wrote:
<excerpt>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param>If you're interested, the design of the
speaker is displayed on the front page of the Zalytron site:
<<http://www.zalytron.com>http://www.zalytron.com
It was dubbed the "NYNOISE" maker.......whatta ridiculous moniker. It
uses the Raven R-3 midrange/tweeter in a simple 2-way design. All I
can say is it sounds a helluva lot better in my room now than it did at
the show!!
- -Dan
</fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param>
</fontfamily>One of our DC DIYers has built the Zalytron Arias, a
D'Appolito design with the Raven tweeter, and it is extremely
satisfying to listen to with 300Bs.
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
- --============_-1255360267==_ma============--
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:40:06 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n532
Thanks for the speedy reply - I hope you didn't take offense to my
mangling your proud family name . . . . Good luck with the
experimentation, I expect you will learn a lot for all of us. What OPT's
will you be using, do you think?
- -j
- --
===========================================
Jeremy Epstein .........jepstein@ndbcap.com
===========================================
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:32:10 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n532
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:30:06 -0700, Daniel Dicker
<dbdicker@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>What a great idea......have the brilliante 's of the venerable Joelist make up the perfect project
amp!
I hope it goes better than the group speaker design from a few months
ago... <G>
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:26:01 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n532
Haha.. well the family name got pretty mangled already with the St
abbreviation.
So far i'm using the AES 10:90's and the Allied 10:10's are on order for
interstage duties. Not sure for the outputs, anyone have any
recommendations?
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Jeremy Epstein wrote:
> Thanks for the speedy reply - I hope you didn't take offense to my
> mangling your proud family name . . . . Good luck with the
> experimentation, I expect you will learn a lot for all of us. What OPT's
> will you be using, do you think?
>
> -j
>
> --
> ===========================================
> Jeremy Epstein .........jepstein@ndbcap.com
> ===========================================
>
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:13:10 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n532
At 12:32 PM -0500 4/26/00, David Barnett wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:30:06 -0700, Daniel Dicker
><dbdicker@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >What a great idea......have the brilliante 's of the venerable
>Joelist make up the perfect project amp!
>
>I hope it goes better than the group speaker design from a few months
>ago... <G>
>
>--dnb
There isn't nearly as much at stake here! ;-)
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: "P. de R. L." <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:42:03 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n532
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BFAFB7.7EE55D20
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Daniel,
I've no doubt that there is still much to come from 845 - if you can =
afford good ones - and find them.
I cannot agree that 211 would make a good push-pull output valve owing =
to its very high anode resistance; you would need a transformer with =
about 10k a-a which would lead to various difficulties.
My choice is triode-strapped 813 (chorus of "here we go again")
813 is relatively cheap and very plentiful. With about 875V at 100mA ra =
is in the region of 1.8k. Bias at this point is only about -75V, so =
it's twice as easy to drive as an 845. Maximum Pa is 125W
I do not wish to hog bandwidth; I have my current circuit scanned. =
Please e-mail me if you wish and I will send it to you. I also have a =
set of triode curves for the valve.
Paul
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel Dicker=20
To: Carter Hendricks=20
Cc: sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
Carter,
Thanks for the informative reply, also the posting from one STC DIY'er =
in Japan. These few postings have helped dissuade me from building =
this, I guess......anything less than a rave review could dissuade me =
from making such a frivolous purchase! =20
OK, then. Now I'm still stuck on my next project. I've really got =
it good for some old fashioned transmitting tube as the output tube like =
an 845, 211....new SV572 series, etc. and really want to build a P/P =
amplifier. Anybody with a bright idea or schematic? I'm not an =
engineer so I can't do it myself but give me a schematic and I'm off to =
the races.
Dan
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Carter Hendricks=20
To: Daniel Dicker ; sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel Dicker=20
To: sound@lists.io.com=20
Sent: 25 April, 2000 7:00 PM
Subject: [JN] Sakuma's 845 P/P amplifier
I'm deeply considering building Sakuma's 845 P/P amp, specifically =
his design using a 3