Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 2
=========================================================================
From: Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de>
Subject: [JN] TA2K+1 location
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:53:27 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n622
Hey Joes,
Arhus was *the place* and those who were there know it. What i think is
particularly nice about this location is that many Euro-Joes could
attend who had no chance of such a meeting ever before. We could drive
by car and bring lots of gear (will increase next year!).
If the location was Hawaii, however a beautiful place it is, only 20
people could come and bring only little gear on the plane.
The only possible improvement was if Eriksminde Efterskole was rebuilt
in northern germany - more centrally located, you know :-).
Seriously, it was one hell of an event. Munich would be OK for me too -
meet in Hartmut's living room... <g>. I bet the Munich Triode Mafia is
already working on it.
We should set up an open-air area for next year. I volunteer for the
midrange speakers.
<BG>
For our Australian and American friends, wouldn't it be an idea to set
up a meeting within solid area (=you can drive) ? NY-Noise-Forte
(extended)... ? Melbourne Audio Meeting (aka MAM) ?
see you
Timo
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. EE Student University of Bremen, Germany
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de>
Subject: [JN] TA2k
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 21:00:56 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n619
Hello Joes!
I arrived at home again after a SUPER weekend at Eriksminde Efterskole
with Kurt and the other Joes!
I wish to thank Kurt and his Friends and Family for making this event
possible and run SO smoothly!
It was very nice to meet you (Joes), discuss and work with you and
listen to all the coooooooool gear that was there.
For the poor people who were not there, i have made some notes about the
stuff that i listened to and my impressions about it. There are also
some notes about the lectures and workshops which took place.
I wish i had taken more comprehensive notes about some lectures, and the
drawings which i made to go with them are missing as well.
<< start notes >>
I and Manfred had the first system running. We used Surt and his EC8020
alternatingly and his tubed Cara CD Player on Tannoy 15'' super gold
speakers. sounded just fine. surt had better bass and less treble (imp.)
which i liked better.
Evening meal with Manfred, Jeremy and their families.
long night talking with the joes.
Jeremy's 2A3 "free lunch" with the tannoys.
FI super X 2A3 amp on tannoys, fine. treble not as sharp as w ec8020.
Thomas Meyer's RIAA, Tannoys with invisible speaker cable.
Hartmut's demonstration : Scheu TT Acryl platter.
comprehensive explanation of the Scheu and comparison to other TTs.
Manfred : async motor can not oscillate.
Demo of scheu + thomas riaa, ec8020, tannoys : excellent. definitely
different sounding compared to cd on the same system. it really sounds
more analog, keeping in mind that the real world IS analog.
really enjoyed this session with music by Thomas M. very natural and
fun.
after some more listening i think this is the best sound of the show so
far.
Lecture by hartmut about kaneda pre. demo w same spk, amp, tt.
After Hartmut explained that this was about transistors all but three
people left the room :-(( !
Oris 150, bass: 8x 13cm per channel, Guido's modified TEAC CD Player,,
sounds nice.
lacking in the bass.
fantastic mid/treble integration and dynamics in this range.
not harsh, no edge.
same system as on the tannoys: oris more lifelike and dynamic but worse
bass.
SE OPTs by Michal Ulbrich, with Jeremy's 2A3.
Most gorgeous looking OPTs i have ever seen!
silver foil cables noticeably better than Allen's simpler design (centr
cond, ptfe tube, braid).
Kurts DECCA: excellent on his tannoys!
Cable Workshop with Allen, worked with Guido. Interesting insights to
cable development and production.
Ortofon Tech surprisingly recommends Tripath amps.
Magnificator horn system : very nice bass/mid integration, though not
very low bass. problem : 3-way drivers too far apart.
Lecture by TD and Kurt, use current amps with high output Z. no
distorted back emf feedback.
Fantastic slide show, very nice photographs, skillful arrangement and
nice rock music selection.
Rick's 417 0.5w parafeed on Guido's Audionote speakers 89db. no worries.
listening session with my hybrid.
allen : neat!
no bad comments
cool light effects
sadly the tda2050 didn' work, distortion appeared when right vol was
turned up.
i noticed some people have very narrow ideas of systems, they are very
selective. i like the spontaeous approach much more like "no problem
lets hook it up and see if it goes up in smoke". this is fun, the other
way it is dreadful work. it is no matter if a tried system does not
work, it actually happened to me, but at least we gave it a shot and
were relaxed about it, not tense as some other guys.
Guido Tent's PS filtering seminar:
second cap big
smaller choke
higher dcr => damping
PSU workshop
my hybrid w tannoy+altec system on the tannoys. Nice bass. The hybrid
does surprisingly well covering below 1khz considering it is only a 5
watt amp. there were no complaints about it and Mattjies and Jim seemed
to like it. They asked me put it in the system.
Remco and i tried to set up the AKSA with my PSU but it didn't work,
most likely because we had only half the recommended supply voltage.
<< end notes >>
These are just my notes straight out of my palmtop computer (i hope i
didn't annoy anyone by scrabbling on it all the time).
Maybe you can make sense of it - maybe not.
SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT YEAR :-)
Timo
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. EE Student University of Bremen, Germany
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] TA2k
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 20:21:06 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n621
At 21:00 07/08/2000 +0200, Timo Christ wrote:
>Oris 150, bass: 8x 13cm per channel, Guido's modified TEAC CD Player,,
>sounds nice. lacking in the bass. fantastic mid/treble integration and
>dynamics in this range. not harsh, no edge.
Thanks ! I have to add that the TEAC (thoug modified) only served as a
drive, and that my DAC was behing (literally) that.....
Guido
=========================================================================
From: ALEXSCIFI@aol.com
Subject: [JN] TAD 1201?
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:23:06 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n442
Has anyone ever heard the TAD 1201 carbon fiber (black 12" mid of about 99db
efficiency--intended to cover 200 to 3K) in a system or seen a subjective
review of it? I realize the thing is a bit huge by normal standards, but
they've been carrying it for eons and I've never heard or seen a reference to
how it sounds.
Alex
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: [JN] TAD 2001
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:09:11 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n348
There are some pretty pictures of the
audio craftsmanship of Mr. Yuichi Arai
on his web site. He shows how he makes
wood horns for TAD drivers.
>http://member.aol.com/araiyuichi/
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: BATESPM@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001 (internal)Space Odyssey
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:55:53 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
In a message dated 04/20/2000 10:44:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
joerbus@mindspring.com writes:
> Paul B,Jean-Michel,
>
> This dscussion re: TAD rear chamber treatments is timely-a few days ago I
> posted a question on the "Full Range Driver Forum"concerning the interior
> shape of the rear chamber of a compression driver.Since I've yet to despoil
> a TAD 2001 with my grubby meat-hooks(hands)I don't know what one looks like
> inside..I would think that a spherical enclosure would be the least
> compromised in mitigating some of the nastier relections-Enquirer readers
> want to know!
>
Hey! Now you got me thinking! Have you seen what B&W has done with the
Nautilus drivers? A long tapered transmission line... Well, why not build one
for the TAD compression driver? Seems to me it might be a very low compromise
solution : )...
I'm going to try it..
Mike Bates
=========================================================================
From: "Joseph Robertson" <joerbus@mindspring.com>
Subject: [JN] TAD 2001 (internal)Space Odyssey
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:56:04 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
Paul B,Jean-Michel,
This dscussion re: TAD rear chamber treatments is timely-a few days ago I
posted a question on the "Full Range Driver Forum"concerning the interior
shape of the rear chamber of a compression driver.Since I've yet to despoil
a TAD 2001 with my grubby meat-hooks(hands)I don't know what one looks like
inside..I would think that a spherical enclosure would be the least
compromised in mitigating some of the nastier relections-Enquirer readers
want to know!
Sincerely,
Joe Robertson
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mpinet.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001 (internal)Space Odyssey
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:17:55 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
Hiya Joe2, greetings from Mickey Rat-Town...
Joseph Robertson wrote:
>
> This dscussion re: TAD rear chamber treatments is timely-a few days ago I
> posted a question on the "Full Range Driver Forum"concerning the interior
> shape of the rear chamber of a compression driver.Since I've yet to despoil
> a TAD 2001 with my grubby meat-hooks(hands)I don't know what one looks like
> inside..I would think that a spherical enclosure would be the least
> compromised in mitigating some of the nastier relections-Enquirer readers
> want to know!
The Nickster has added TAD to his website, so I'll se if I can get him
to include some internal pix of the beastie. (Nude, of course!*) Mmmm,
howzabout some gruesome 'before and after' shots? The mind boggles...
*The driver, *not* Nick!
Ummm, good *strong* coffee this AM**...
**AM in FL defined as "The Crack of Noon."
Paul B
- --
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yadda, yadda, yadda....
=========================================================================
From: "Joseph Robertson" <joerbus@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001 (internal)Space Odyssey
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:39:27 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Le Cleac'h J.-M. <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
To: Joelist <sound@deliverator.io.com
>
Thank you,Jean-Michel,
Now I'm thinking some more(what a concept)perhaps a "nOrh "type enclosure
shape(inverted horn)with appropriate "stuffing?"
> > Hey! Now you got me thinking! Have you seen what B&W has done with the
> > Nautilus drivers? A long tapered transmission line... Well, why not
build
> one
> > for the TAD compression driver? Seems to me it might be a very low
> compromise
> > solution : )...
>
> Hello,
>
> This is IMHO a very good solution.
> The famous Iwata a specialist of pressure in tunnels, guns silencers and
> horns (the most dynamical horns I ever listened too) use such method to
> load the rear of the diaphragms of his comprssion drivers. There was a
> paper in the French review l'Audiophile. The length of the tubes he used
> were between .5 meter to several meters depending on the frequency
> range....
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001 (internal)Space Odyssey
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:16:37 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
> De : BATESPM@aol.com
> A : joerbus@mindspring.com
> Cc : sound@deliverator.io.com
> Objet : Re: [JN] TAD 2001 (internal)Space Odyssey
> Date : jeudi 20 avril 2000 16:55
> Hey! Now you got me thinking! Have you seen what B&W has done with the
> Nautilus drivers? A long tapered transmission line... Well, why not build
one
> for the TAD compression driver? Seems to me it might be a very low
compromise
> solution : )...
Hello,
This is IMHO a very good solution.
The famous Iwata a specialist of pressure in tunnels, guns silencers and
horns (the most dynamical horns I ever listened too) use such method to
load the rear of the diaphragms of his comprssion drivers. There was a
paper in the French review l'Audiophile. The length of the tubes he used
were between .5 meter to several meters depending on the frequency
range....
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001 (internal)Space Odyssey
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 03:49:28 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
Hello Jean Michel, all-
>> A long tapered transmission line... Well, why not build
>> one for the TAD compression driver?
>
> This is IMHO a very good solution.
> The famous Iwata a specialist of pressure in tunnels, guns silencers and
> horns (the most dynamical horns I ever listened too) use such method to
> load the rear of the diaphragms of his comprssion drivers.
[Snip]
Yes, i've seen this but (I doesn't read French with ease so) I lack the
proper
understanding of it....But wouldn't the sole purpose with a line loading
the back of diaphragm be to lower still the Q-value of the main resonnant
frequency of driver? Wouldn't this then just result in a somewhat reduced
sensitivity, and a bandwith somewhat extended downwards?
( I've been thinking alittle on this: If the driver was given a phase-plug
on the back-side of diaphragm,- with same slot-area as the front....Then
the
back-radiation could be loaded by a line that might be the "missing
start of the horn itself,- develloped "backwards" from back-throat area
to zero area. But i cant picture if it would be useful for anything....
Regards
Torbjoern, Norway
=========================================================================
From: "wmollard" <wmollard@dowco.com>
Subject: [JN] TAD 2001 / Round Tractrix
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:02:25 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n716
Hey Chris,
Thanks for the info on the 550 Hz resonance peak for the TAD on a 300 Hz
round horn. I was trying to figure out why folks were getting horns that low
given their recommended 800 Hz crossover point. Also, Bruce Edgar indicated
to me that the tractrix curve doesn't "turn-on" until 150 - 200Hz above its
cutoff frequency. My conclusion is the two factors combine to provide a flat
response to 330Hz; make sense?
While you are saving for those TAD 2001 (I just got a pair... and now I
am saving for the round horns; BTW are you using horns from John / Indiana?)
I have heard that the pre-1990 drivers have lighter beryllium diaphragms
resulting in better HF response. I "think" the pre-1990 are identifiable by
a tan colored cement whereas the post-1990 use a gray translucent cement.
I would be grateful for any other coments/observation/sources regarding
the TAD 2001 and round tractrix horns or on the use of an Altec 515-8G in a
round tractrix / reflex port combo for bottom end. .. the sooner I get this
speaker-thing settled the sooner I can get back to soldering-n-'sperimentin!
TIA
Bill
=========================================================================
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Le_Cl=E9ac'h_Jean-Michel?=" <lecleach@paris.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001 / Round Tractrix
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:26:21 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n718
- -----Message d'origine-----
De : wmollard <wmollard@dowco.com>
À : sound@lists.io.com <sound@lists.io.com>
Date : mercredi 1 novembre 2000 20:26
Objet : [JN] TAD 2001 / Round Tractrix
>Hey Chris,
>
> Thanks for the info on the 550 Hz resonance peak for the TAD on a 300
Hz
>round horn. I was trying to figure out why folks were getting horns that
low
>given their recommended 800 Hz crossover point.
Hello,
Here in France there at lest 1 hundred audio nuts using TAD2001 on the Sato
horn (a 100 Hz acoustical cut-off horn, WE type) , the Tad is electrically
cut above 200Hz (and used from 200Hz to 1000 or 1200 Hz).
But to use the TAD TD2001 at such low frequencies, the rear cavity is
enlarged (I sent a graph about that modification some time ago on Joenet, I
don't have it on that computer so cannot send it at the moment.)
One consequence of the enlarging of the rear cavity is the displacement of
the resonnance frequency (as you know the impedance curve of any loudspeaker
is highly dependant on the rear load, it is the same with a compression
driver).
Some persons like Iwata san in Japan used to load the rear of the comprssion
driver with a long tube tuned in order to annul some reactive part of the
driver when load by the horn, but this has also an effect on the impedance
curve of the driver itself.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mpinet.net>
Subject: [JN] TAD 2001's @ $150 ea - a Joelist group buy?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:55:49 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n334
Well, guys & gals, remember about a year ago when I got some surplus TAD
2001's from Disney, and I told you I would post you if I located some more?
Found more of these used Disney TAD's at $150 each. If there is enough
interest, Nick and I will go inspect the lot next Monday or Tuesday.
Interested? Please let me know how many you would buy at $150.00 each, not
including shipping. Drivers would be thoroughly checked out and tested by both
me and Nick McKinney before we plunk our cash down. If we can, Nick and I
plan to purchase in lot quantity to keep price at $150, so we will add drivers
with our order for any Joe who wants one or a pair, or five - for a HT <grin>...
I'll be out of town (going to Georgia on recording assignment) until next
Monday, so I will not be able to reply to list after tonight through Sunday.
- --
Happy Ears!
Paul Butterfield
Consulting Producer; Overland Productions
Squeaky Chair Recording Studio
Central Florida Audio Society
Winter Park (Orlando) FL USA
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
=========================================================================
From: Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001's @ $150 ea - a Joelist group buy?
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:06:01 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n335
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What is a Disney TAD 2001?
and why would I want one?
would it work on 240 volt 50 hz mains/
Regards Tim B
=========================================================================
From: Robert C Chambers <rchamber@norwich.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001's @ $150 ea - a Joelist group buy?
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:47:00 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n336
Hello Tim-
On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au wrote:
> What is a Disney TAD 2001?
TAD (Technical Audio Devices) is a division of Pioneer. The 2001 is
a one inch, 500 - 22K Hz compression driver (which requires a horn). I
think the Disney reference comes from these units having been used at
Disney World in Florida. You can find out more about TAD at:
http://www.tad-pioneer.com/
>
> and why would I want one?
Retail price is $860 so obtaining one for $150 is a great deal.
This driver is similar to the TAD 4001 (a two inch version) which was
used by Christian Rintelen and R. Luigi Andreoli in the BLUE THUNDER
loudspeaker design featured in Sound Practices Issue 8. The 2001 may
have applications in other high efficiency horn loudspeakers of which I
am unaware.
>
> would it work on 240 volt 50 hz mains/
Not for long.
> Regards Tim B
Best Regards,
Robert
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mpinet.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: TAD 2001's @ $150 ea - a Joelist group buy?
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:39:10 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n378
Hi Raymond,
News is that I have purchased and received the entire lot of TAD's. We
will be starting to test, pack, and ship starting mid to late January.
It is going to be a fun, but lengthy, process. I would hope that many
of the recipients of the TAD's will share experience and advice over the
Joenet when building a system with them.
Nick and I will be putting up pix on the Lambda website soon after I
take the lot of drivers over to his shop.
Yours in music, Paul
Raymond Chau wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Any news on the group-buy ?
- --
Paul Butterfield
Consulting Producer
Overland Productions/Sound Recording
Winter Park (Orlando) FL USA
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mpinet.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 2001's @ $150 ea UPDATE, SOLD!
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:34:48 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n335
SOLD OUT!
Gentlefolk, I had no idea how many of you would want these - I have been
flooded with emails, so please excuse me not being able to post to you
individually. Here is the good news, and the bad news...
The good news is that I have been told by the surplus dealer that there are
"Around sixty of the TAD 2001 drivers." so, I just called him and told him I
would take the entire lot, but only if I could check each driver (inspect VC
for oxidization, inspect beryllium dome for pitting, play music through it...)
He agreed. This will take time.
The bad news is that there are not enough TAD's to go around, and some wanted
more than one pair, for themselves and friends.
Last year, when I bought a total of eight of these, two were blown, and this
lot is in same condition, so there will probably be less than 60 to go around
(I will not be reserving any for me). Each driver will be checked out before I
buy it, and Nick has offered to show me how to run a check on the units in
order to give you a frequency/inductance printout - I don't want anyone to get
a bad driver.
Suggestions on how to resolve supply with demand appreciated! First come first
served? Limit to 1 pair per joenet member? Yikes, an embarrassment of riches...
To answer specific questions:
Shipping would be done through Lambda Acoustics, so I would have to add a fee
in US$ for using his boxes and packing materials. I would let you know how
much total will be depending on where & how shipped.
Payment (DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY YET) would need to be in US$ - check, or money
order, as I am not in retail, so I do not have a bank charge card service in
order to accept credit cards.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Butterfield wrote:
>
> Well, guys & gals, remember about a year ago when I got some surplus TAD
> 2001's from Disney, and I told you I would post you if I located some more?
> Found more of these used Disney TAD's at $150 each. If there is enough
> interest, Nick and I will go inspect the lot next Monday or Tuesday.
>
> Interested? Please let me know how many you would buy at $150.00 each, not
> including shipping. Drivers would be thoroughly checked out and tested by both
> me and Nick McKinney before we plunk our cash down. If we can, Nick and I
> plan to purchase in lot quantity to keep price at $150, so we will add drivers
> with our order for any Joe who wants one or a pair, or five - for a HT <grin>...
>
> I'll be out of town (going to Georgia on recording assignment) until next
> Monday, so I will not be able to reply to list after tonight through Sunday.
=========================================================================
From: "Gary P. Gibbs" <g.p.gibbs@larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: [JN] TAD 4001 vs. TAD 4002
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:00:55 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n131
I am interested in hearing your opinions about the TAD 4001 vs. TAD 4002.
Are the magnets the only difference? I realize that their sound is horn
dependent, but would like to hear your experiences. What are the basic
sound quality differences? How about useable frequency range, etc. I saw
a pair of 4002's going for $1000.00 in so called "mint condition". Does
this seem reasonable?
Thanks
Gary
Dr. Gary P. Gibbs
Internet: g.p.gibbs@larc.nasa.gov
Structural Acoustic Branch
NASA Langley Research Center
MS 463
Hampton. VA 23681-0001
Office: (757) 864-8977
FAX: (757) 864-8823
Sec.: (757) 864-3575
http://db-www.larc.nasa.gov/orgs/OC_DFB/index.html
__________________________________________________________________________
"There is no such thing as luck. You make your own luck." - Carroll Shelby
__________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
From: Hartmut Quaschik <Hartmut.Quaschik@munich.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD 4001 vs. TAD 4002
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:46:40 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n131
Gary,
the 4001 has a slightly different phase plug than the 4002.
when measuring, the 4002 goes a bit higher, but the 4001 has a bit more
midrange energy.
you can hear that:
the 4002 has a bit more resolution, but is a bit cold in sound, and the 4001
sounds
more warm in midrange.
The differences are not that great. just a matter of taste. I know people
actually
disliking the 4002 for its "coldness" (or clarity ?).
With a JBL 2360 horn, the frequency range is 300 Hz to 20 kHz, equalized of
course,
as all constant directivity horns must be eq'ed a bit. The big horn loads the
driver
such that it delivers energy below its free air resonance frequency - same as
in
bass horns, BTW.
Where have you seen the 4002 offered ?
regards,
Hartmut
Gary P. Gibbs schrieb:
> I am interested in hearing your opinions about the TAD 4001 vs. TAD 4002.
> Are the magnets the only difference? I realize that their sound is horn
> dependent, but would like to hear your experiences. What are the basic
> sound quality differences? How about useable frequency range, etc. I saw
> a pair of 4002's going for $1000.00 in so called "mint condition". Does
> this seem reasonable?
=========================================================================
From: "Aigner Josef, Dr." <j.aigner@igk.co.at>
Subject: [JN] TAD-4002
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:51:18 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n768
Hi Joes
can somebody tell me, what diameter the screws on a TAD-4002 is? It must be
something about 1/4inch, but in Central Europe, inch screw are not that
common.....
TIA,
Josef
P.S.: Damn inch-screws
PPS: Merry Christmas and a tubey New Year
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mindspring.com>
Subject: [JN] TAD 4002 FS or trade
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 10:24:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n750
Hi Joes,
Saw this over on RAT, and thought I'd pass it along, as several have
mentioned to me that you are interested in TAD 4002's...
Usual disclaimers...
Please contact Mike Bates, batespm@aol.com.
===================================================
Subject: Trade? TAD 4002's for 2001's
Date: 30 Nov 2000 18:10:20 GMT
From: batespm@aol.com (Mike Bates)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.tubes
TAD 4002 compression drivers, very nice condition. They can be used in
either a
1.5" or 2" horn. I'm looking to get $1200.00 for the pair, these drivers sound
fantastic!
I'm looking for a pair of 2001's in working condition to use with my
4001's as
tweeters.
Please email if your interested in buying the 4002's, have 2001's for
sale, or
best of all looking to trade up to the 4" 4002's.
Thanks
Mike Bates
===================================================
- --
Paul Butterfield
Butterfield Overland Productions
TAD 2001 Recovery Project
paulbutterfield@usa.net
paulbutterfield@mindspring.com
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
From: "chris clark" <ceclark@visuallink.com>
Subject: [JN] TAD and JBL drivers in audiophile products
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:07:33 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n213
- ----- Original Message -----
From: tom brennan <irishtom@webtv.net>
To: <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 1999 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Where is Dunlavy today ?
> William---The audiophile speaker business isn't about putting expensive
> JBL or TAD drivers into it's products, it's more about dressing up cheap
> Vifas and such. Dunlavey's criteria for "accuracy" evidently don't
> address dynamics or realism. If I want pantywaisted Madisound Catalog
> speakers I can build them myself, no need to give Dunlavey or Wilson
> big-bucks.
> Tom Brennan
Hi all
Interestingly enough, there is one manufacturer who does.
A new horn loaded speaker (called Renaissance) from Hales design group uses
a JBL woofer. The tweet brand slips my mind, but I was speaking with Paul a
while back about custom building a pair for a wealthy client (I *used* to be
in the biz, but not no more...) of mine, and suggested adding a pair of TADs
as supertweets. We never did it 'cause the client ended up with a Meridian
system. Paul said it would take a while to work out the math and prototype
them (he was also going to tailor the throat for the listening room, If we
wanted). They are huge and unusual looking (4'h x 2'w x 4'd(!)) but sounded
spectacular. He was working on a full "cinema" package that clocked out at
$25,000. A stereo pair goes for $15,000. The last time I was at the website,
they weren't up, but might be now. If yer interested check out...
http://www.halesdesigngroup.com
With gladness to be out from under the high end madness,
Chris
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] TAD Drivers
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:24:05 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n543
Hi All,
There is a pair of TAD drivers on eBay. Not mine, just happened to see
them and thought someone might be interested. Closes in the morning.
Bid is only $356. Later.
DM
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] TAD Drivers
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:25:38 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n543
Oops, forgot to include the address.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=324649237
DM
=========================================================================
From: "Gary P. Gibbs" <g.p.gibbs@larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: [JN] TAD drivers / Edgarhorns
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1990 20:14:48 -0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n123
Where is the cheapest place to purchase new or used TAD drivers. I am most
interested in the 2001 and 4001.
Has anyone listened and compared the Edgarhorns with 2001 vs. 4001 drivers?
I just listened to a setup in Atlanta using the 2001 drivers and I was
very impressed. It was one of the few systems I have heard which had
uncolored and dynamic sound! I am a little concerned about the use of a 4
way setup, although the sound from this system was seamless and awesome.
For those who are not familiar with Edgar's 4 way, it has a FANE ST5022
tweeter, round tractrix wood mid range (w/ TAD 2001), a straight horn mid
bass with an electrovoice EV15L driver, and the 35 Hz refrigerator. I
think the crossover freqs are: 100 Hz, 600 Hz, and ~10 kHz. Thanks
Gary
=========================================================================
From: "Philip Sieg" <psieg@nxs.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD drivers / Edgarhorns
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:02:52 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n123
Gary,
You might talk with John Wolff at Classic Audio Reproduction (810.229.5191)
He uses TAD drivers in his T-1 and T-3 Project speakers, as well as his
Hartsfield Repros. I will be up there this weekend for a listen to the
T-3s. These are 2- or 3-ways (your choice) that use the TAD 1600 series
woofer, TD4001 mid/tweet and, if you and your banker so desire, the EH 703
slot tweeter on top. They are not an all-horn design like the Edgar Horns
(actually, they appear somewhat like his newest creation, but for far less
$$$). The woofer enclosure is ported, the TD4001 uses the TH4001 horn, and
the EH 703 is acoustic suspension (I think).
I have tried several times at the TAD website to get them to tell me who my
nearest dealer would be with no result
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Phil Sieg
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Gary P. Gibbs <g.p.gibbs@larc.nasa.gov>
To: <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Sent: 11 February, 1990 18.14
Subject: [JN] TAD drivers / Edgarhorns
> Where is the cheapest place to purchase new or used TAD drivers. I am
most
> interested in the 2001 and 4001.
>
> Has anyone listened and compared the Edgarhorns with 2001 vs. 4001
drivers?
> I just listened to a setup in Atlanta using the 2001 drivers and I was
> very impressed. It was one of the few systems I have heard which had
> uncolored and dynamic sound! I am a little concerned about the use of a 4
> way setup, although the sound from this system was seamless and awesome.
> For those who are not familiar with Edgar's 4 way, it has a FANE ST5022
> tweeter, round tractrix wood mid range (w/ TAD 2001), a straight horn mid
> bass with an electrovoice EV15L driver, and the 35 Hz refrigerator. I
> think the crossover freqs are: 100 Hz, 600 Hz, and ~10 kHz. Thanks
>
> Gary
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Gary P. Gibbs" <g.p.gibbs@larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD drivers / Edgarhorns
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:41:31 -0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n124
Thanks for your input. I plan on building up a system very soon. I am
definitely impressed by the Edgar mid range horn. I have a few questions
about your current system:
> I use no tweet and have them mounted on exempler bass horns >to 40hz. I have
How did you obtain the exempler bass horns? I was thinking they would be a
good match for the Edgar midrange. What drivers are you using in the
exempler?
>We were going to use
>the A5 system, but have given up on thisbecause of poor bass.
I am not familiar with the A5 system. Which one is this?
>I was using the Altec 805B and 288K driver
>with a 515E.. All is for sale now! rr
I assume you mean the altec stuff not the Edgar/Exempler setup?
thanks
Gary
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD drivers / Edgarhorns
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:23:53 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n124
Philip Sieg wrote:
> [snip] the TD4001 uses the TH4001 horn, and
> the EH 703 is acoustic suspension (I think).
To quote from TAD's website:
"The ET-703 is a compression horn super high-frequency loudspeaker designed for
a wide frequency range and high input power." and "This makes the driver
especially suitable for monitoring digital sound."
sic! Or should I say sick! ;-)
BTW the ET 703 has 107 dB/W/m. Pretty loud... More abouit the ET 703:
http://www.tad-pioneer.com/pionrweb.nsf/web/ET-703.htm
Christian
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD drivers / Edgarhorns
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:16:23 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n124
- ----------
> De : Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
> A : Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
> Objet : Re: [JN] TAD drivers / Edgarhorns
> Date : mercredi 14 avril 1999 14:23
>
> Philip Sieg wrote:
>
> > [snip] the TD4001 uses the TH4001 horn, and
> > the EH 703 is acoustic suspension (I think).
>
> To quote from TAD's website:
>
> "The ET-703 is a compression horn super high-frequency loudspeaker
designed for
> a wide frequency range and high input power." and "This makes the driver
> especially suitable for monitoring digital sound."
>
> sic! Or should I say sick! ;-)
>
> BTW the ET 703 has 107 dB/W/m. Pretty loud... More abouit the ET 703:
> http://www.tad-pioneer.com/pionrweb.nsf/web/ET-703.htm
Hello,
Also, a lot of people prefer the TAD TD2001 used as a tweeter that means
loaded with a very short horn (calculated for a 3000Hz or 2000Hz low
cut-off frequency) to the expensive ET703.
I used to listen to the TD2001 as a tweeter sometimes and to the ET703 1
single time, well, the TD2001 is not so bad as a tweeter. Nothing as good
as my Onken OS5000T tweeter though...
I found the ET703, how to say:somewhat digital!
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h
=========================================================================
From: sschenkel@juno.com
Subject: [JN] TAD RC9 tweeters
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:07:13 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
Does anyone know anything about these tweeters?
Steve Schenkel
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@usa.net>
Subject: [JN] TAD Report 2
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 16:12:09 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n356
Howdy Folks,
Please pardon my continuing delay in posting, but due to relocation to a
new office, a delayed studio/listening room construction schedule,
setting up a new office computer (+ audio editing), one grumpy binge &
purge cat, and all the conundrums associated with a small growing
business — and all of the necessary activities which make demands on my
time — I find I am consistently in a state of behind. Phooey. Yes, I'm
woefully behind in my correspondence too.
Ah, Sundays, a time to catch up... <grin>
Well, there was a good reason why I was offered this lot of about 60 TAD
2001's at a good price - naw, make that a *very* good price... they are
being lowballed because they ain't pretty. Ugly ducklings, so to speak.
But remember — Ugly (in this case) is mostly skin deep. And the duck
did grow up to be of pleasing appearance <smile> and voice.
Unlike the last batch of drivers I got from this dealer — six
cosmetically excellent TAD 2001's which had been pulled from inside of
'PA' cabinets from an interior environment (and for allot more $$) —
these units look, well, Used. Click on link below to see a TAD 2001
picture to help visualize following description...
http://www.tad-pioneer.com/pionrweb.nsf/web/TD-2001.htm
On most of the TAD's, there is exterior rust is around the rear metal band
where the rear housing (covering the VC/dome) meets the motor. In the
above picture, this is the light band around the dark motor. This is a
ferrous plate that has some light to heavy rust.
The surplus dealer (Wade McAlister) told me these units came from under
the pavilions at Disney... ummm, folks, that means "permanent tent"
hereabouts — so while not 'out in the weather' they have been exposed to humidity.
However, the good news is, that the Ugly is mostly skin deep, with
exterior oxidization (rust) from very light to some heavy (pitting). I
started in on the inspection by taking fifteen units apart last Tuesday.
Removed the rear housing, and then carefully removed each VC/dome
assembly.
The interior of 4 of them had humidity intrusion (a poor seal) that was
evidenced by a slight, light brown rust staining (but no pitting) on the
motor plate, only toward the outside edge. On only one driver, there was
some white oxidation on the edge of the beryllium dome, where it meets
the voice coil. The other three of these four beryllium domes and voice
coils were clean.
Eleven of them had no evidence that the seals had problems — in other
words — the beryllium domes and voice coils looked clean. Some looked
extremely clean.
Bottomline: Ugly outside, but inside — where it counts — most were clean.
Some very clean. Of the 15, I picked four to take home and test. Have
just completed a listening test (with a Mapleshade CD) of the four, in
ABCD comparison (to one of the best of the lot rom my previous buy) and
they all sounded (to my ear) the same. Played them full range using no crossover.
My opinion is that the majority of these drivers can be
cosmetically renovated for those of you that wish to do so. Those of you
who have restored rusty iron have a good idea of what I mean.
But, if there are some of you that wish to change your mind about
committing to this order, simply return email me ONE LINE please, and type
in "cancel" or words to that effect WITHOUT quoting this text. I have
54 pages of text to go through to edit the buy list in order to give me
the "first come first served" sequence.
The TAD Plan:
I will pick up 56 TAD drivers from Wade's warehouse tomorrow, Wed Dec 8.
All drivers will be fully tested under load. All drivers will then be
tested for impedance with a printout included, courtesy of Nick
McKinney, Lambda Acoustics, who will be teaching me how to use Liberty
Audio Suite. Our goal is to match pairs as close as
possible to the impedance plot.
Cost per driver will be $150 each to Joenetters only. Prepaid only. SEND
NO MONEY at this time. Shipping will be extra. Shipping will be done
through Lambda Acoustics. I do not have a merchant number, so I do not take
credit cards.
All drivers will be inspected, tested and measured, but as I have
mentioned in previous posts, this will take time. Although I will start
in January with this project, it will take several more months to
complete, so please, be patient.
Guarantees: None. Sorry, not at this price. In the pro sound industry,
compression domes are just not warranted against failure due to burnout
from overdriving. However, in the spirit of Joenetters everywhere, I
will refund purchase price (not including shipping charges) if you are
not happy with the unit, but only if the unit is received in the same
condition as when shipped. This means that if the VC is blown or the
beryllium dome is cracked, the return for refund offer is void.
OPTION from Lambda Acoustics: There are a small number of motors that I
will be selling to Nick that have had the VC/beryllium dome assembly
removed. So Nick is offering the following: He will install a new
(factory replacement) TAD beryllium diaphragm assembly into these motors
for $450.00 total. This price includes the motor. This is half the price
of a new 2001. While supplies last. (The retail price for just the new
beryllium diaphragm is $440.00) Nick is working out a warranty and will
have the details soon. He also accepts credit cards. Nick is also
exploring the possibility of becoming a TAD dealer. If you're
interested, please contact Nick at above cc email address.
I will be getting some pictures of these units up on Nicks' webpage
after the Christmas holidays, so you will have a better idea of what
these units look like.
Some have asked, why am I going to all this effort? A combination of
reasons. About a year and a half ago, I was introduced to the consummate
quality of music reproduction via SE amplification and the Joenet. You
folks (Thanks Rick, Jeremy, Allen, Jeff, Hiroshi, Greg, Larry, and many,
many more ) have been instrumental in helping me to learn to improve the
quality and enjoyment of music reproduction. And I am only just starting
on this big adventure. <big SE grin> This is my way of thanking you.
Yours in Music, Paul
- --
Paul Butterfield
Consulting Producer
Overland Productions
Squeaky Chair Studio
Winter Park (Orlando) FL USA
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
================
"Unka" Paul Butterfield
Central Florida Audio Society
================
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD Report 2
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:25:47 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n357
- ---------
> De : Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@usa.net>
> A : JOENET- Sound Practices List <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> Cc : Nick McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
> Objet : [JN] TAD Report 2
> Date : mardi 7 décembre 1999 22:12
> All drivers will be fully tested under load. All drivers will then be
> tested for impedance with a printout included, courtesy of Nick
> McKinney, Lambda Acoustics, who will be teaching me how to use Liberty
> Audio Suite. Our goal is to match pairs as close as
> possible to the impedance plot.
Hello,
IMHO better to load the TAD TD2001 by a horn (or a long tube) to do that
test!
But most probably you yet planned to do so.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] TAD Report 2
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:50:23 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n357
Hi Jean-Michel,
Yes, we do plan to horn load the 2001's for testing. However, we have
not decided which horn to use for the tests. The only two we have
available at the moment are a JBL 2307 and a Renkus-Heinz.
Suggestions?
Paul
"Le Cleac'h J.-M." wrote:
>
> ---------
> > De : Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@usa.net>
> > A : JOENET- Sound Practices List <sound@deliverator.io.com>
> > Cc : Nick McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
> > Objet : [JN] TAD Report 2
> > Date : mardi 7 décembre 1999 22:12
>
> > All drivers will be fully tested under load. All drivers will then be
> > tested for impedance with a printout included, courtesy of Nick
> > McKinney, Lambda Acoustics, who will be teaching me how to use Liberty
> > Audio Suite. Our goal is to match pairs as close as
> > possible to the impedance plot.
>
> Hello,
>
> IMHO better to load the TAD TD2001 by a horn (or a long tube) to do that
> test!
>
> But most probably you yet planned to do so.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, Francen
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@usa.net>
Subject: [JN] TAD Report 2 on its way
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 10:24:48 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n350
Hi Folks,
Just a Quick note (From our new office/studio w new G3 OS <big grin>) that
I have started inspecting the TAD 2001's, and will have full report -
Subject: TAD Report 2 - tonight or tomorrow.
Brief overview of 12 units inspected: Units in poor cosmetic condition.
Exterior rust. Interior: Eight of the twelve have been clean. Four had
evidence of moisture intrusion with rust or oxidation inside motor.
More later, got to go buy a better keyboard...
Paul B.
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: [JN] TAD TD2001 frequency response with different horns
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:42:03 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n116
Ceci est un message multi-parties au format MIME.
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE82A7.E5B5D180
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello,
We had some time ago a discussion about the TAD TD2001 compression driver
and the possibility to obtain a bad sound with certain horns.
I send you in attachment a .GIF file (11k) showing the frequency response
of the TAD TD2001 with 6 different horns.
The letters on the curve are related to the following horns:
a = SANO 500 SII
b = Le Dauphin (4 cells)
c = JBL 2385
d = Yamamoto Kogei F350
(inspired from the TAD horn schematics were published in MJ)
e = JBL 2370
f = Pioneer Exclusive EH 351S
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE82A7.E5B5D180
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="TD2001.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Description: Td2001 (Image au format GIF)
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TD2001.gif"
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- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE82A7.E5B5D180--
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] TAD Update
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 12:05:15 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n564
Hi All,
Some might recall that I made reference to having obtained a pair of TAD
TD-2001 drivers and TAD 1601b 15 inch woofers several weeks back. I had
not received them at that time, but of course, have since and have
played about with them a bit, so thought I would report my initial
impressions in case anyone might have an interest.
The drivers came with JBL 2307 round, exponential, 1,200 Hz horns and
heavy-duty, 1,000 Hz, 12 dB/octave low-pass, 18 dB/octave high-pass
crossovers, and EV 806A bass modules which contained EVM-12L woofers. I
didn't care for the EV woofers for general purpose woofer use, so traded
them to someone with Edgar Horns, in which they reportedly worked quite
well. In the 4 cu ft ducted, bass reflex enclosures the old 12"
Norelcos would walk all over the 12Ls with a much more lively midrange
and much deeper, cleaner, more pleasing bass response as well as a bit
more efficiency; they made the 12Ls sound bad, dull, lifeless. I would
not recommend the EVM-12L for anything other than for the Edgar horns.
I say that without having heard the Edgar horns, only on hearsay.
I haven't built enclosures for the 1601Bs, but had a quickie listen,
unbaffled. They sounded pretty much like most typical high-power PA
woofers, but, of course, final judgement must be reserved until they are
properly baffled.
I had several 800 Hz horns, in addition to the 2307s which came with
the speakers. I didn't care much for the 2307s, but only tried them
with the 1,000 Hz crossovers. I later found that I didn't like anything
with those crossovers. I tried the TD-2001s with the Emilar bow-tie
horns. Didn't like them either, too harsh sounding. Also with a single
800 Hz Emilar horn of more conventional design. OK, but still not up to
expectations. The 800 Hz tar-filled multicellulars were the clear
winners. But, I found that I really didn't care for them either when
used with the crossovers that came with the speakers. In fact, the
full-range Norelcos sounded better alone than with the TD-2001s and the
tar-filled multicellulars when used with those crossovers. A simple
series cap and resistor sounded MUCH better.
I sold the 2307 horns to a chap who used them with simple cap crossovers
and JBL drivers, and thought they sounded quite marvelous. I did not
try them with the simple cap crossover though. Oh well.
So, I am temporarily running the TD-2001s on the multicellulars atop the
12" Norelcos with the simple, temprorary high-pass crossovers with the
Norelcos running full range. I don't seem to sense that there is much
need for a more complex crossover, but I will get around to biamping
them one of these days and/or perhaps winding some inductors to roll off
the Norelcos. Since the Norelcos are positioned down rather close to
the floor, the high frequencies bounce about the room and don't seem to
be all that objectionable. Hopefully, proper crossovers will effect an
overall improvement.
The TD2001s on the 800 Hz tar-filled multicellulars do seem to sound
quite nice, very musical and full-bodied with no trace of harshness,
rather, a balanced and pleasing sound without any annoying high
frequency edginess or roughness. Once I get a proper crossover
implemented, hopefully, they will sound even better.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: "Joe" <doodle@teleport.com>
Subject: [JN] Tag Boards, and stuff
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:31:27 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF6D14.D7FD79F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A few weeks (?) ago there was a flurry of DIY tagboard chat.
A few years ago I ended up with a pound of gold plated pins,
The thing is they're a bitch to install on a fiberglass board
unless you are prepared to make a seating tool for them.
Anyhow, if anyone is interested, let me know off list. I just
made up a couple boards for a new amp, but have lots to spare.
New Subject: 78's and LP's onto CD's.
-working up to the subject-
A lot of conversation about transfers, and quality...I spend some time =
in my smoking room (actually the garage, which is not a garage anymore =
since it's the in-ground swimming pool room, but covered during the =
winter, and the sound system sucks as it's using a borrowed SS HK =
receiver/amp and two dipole Quam arrays across the pool from my campsite =
folding chair!!! ( Hey! I'm the second oldest Joelist member, so I get =
to digress a lot...right?)
-getting to the subject-
One of the FM stations I listen to was doing mods on their =
antenna...sound quality was bad, lots of ..almost white noise, but they =
played some early jazz sessions, that I had not remembered hearing =
before. Fantastic! Quality sucked, but the heart of the music came =
through!
-what is my point to all this rambling?-
Maybe 1967? I was a student at DLIWC (Language school for spooks &
others) and my roomie was a black guy from SF who had the most fantastic =
jazz LP collection! Lucky me had a Teac 4010S and lots of
blank reels (the 1 mill Ampex stuff), so I managed to tape just about =
everything I could afford tape for. Years later the Teac died...I=20
borrowed a Sony playback deck and transferred most of it to cassette..
Even as a third-removed copy, some of that still sounds good.
-maybe it's my ears, or??-
I think the magic is in the music! If you can save a great chunk of it =
in some modern form, ignore the hash. Enjoy the artistry that went into =
the music.
Regards,
Joe Pledger
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF6D14.D7FD79F0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D3>A few weeks (?) ago there was a =
flurry of=20
DIY tagboard chat.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">A few years ago I ended up with a pound =
of gold=20
plated pins,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">The thing is they're a bitch to install =
on a=20
fiberglass board</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">unless you are prepared to make a =
seating tool for=20
them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">Anyhow, if anyone is interested, let me =
know off=20
list. I just</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">made up a couple boards for a new amp, =
but have=20
lots to spare.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">New Subject: 78's and LP's onto=20
CD's.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D3> -working up =
to the=20
subject-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">A lot of conversation about transfers, =
and=20
quality...I spend some time in my smoking room (actually the garage, =
which is=20
not a garage anymore since it's the in-ground swimming pool room, but =
covered=20
during the winter, and the sound system sucks as it's using a borrowed =
SS HK=20
receiver/amp and two dipole Quam arrays across the pool from my campsite =
folding=20
chair!!! ( Hey! I'm the second oldest Joelist member, so I get to =
digress a=20
lot...right?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"> -getting to the=20
subject-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">One of the FM stations I listen to was =
doing mods=20
on their antenna...sound quality was bad, lots of ..almost white noise, =
but they=20
played some early jazz sessions, that I had not remembered hearing =
before.=20
Fantastic! Quality sucked, but the heart of the music came =
through!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"> -what is my point to =
all this=20
rambling?-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">Maybe 1967? I was a student at DLIWC =
(Language=20
school for spooks &</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">others) and my roomie was a black guy =
from SF who=20
had the most fantastic jazz LP collection! Lucky me had a Teac 4010S and =
lots=20
of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">blank reels (the 1 mill Ampex stuff), so =
I managed=20
to tape just about everything I could afford tape for. Years later =
the=20
Teac died...I </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">borrowed a Sony playback deck and =
transferred most=20
of it to cassette..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">Even as a third-removed copy, some of =
that still=20
sounds good.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"> -maybe it's my ears,=20
or??-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">I think the magic is in the music! If =
you can save=20
a great chunk of it in some modern form, ignore the hash. Enjoy the =
artistry=20
that went into the music.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">Joe Pledger</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF6D14.D7FD79F0--
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tag Boards, and stuff
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:39:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n430
Joe, you're using some sort of html font which is very difficult to
read in Eudora. Is there any way you can switch off your html for
future posts?
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Ross J Lahlum <rlahlum@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tag Boards, and stuff
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 01:12:06 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n433
> Maybe 1967? I was a student at DLIWC (Language school for spooks &
> others) and my roomie was a black guy from SF who had the most
> fantastic jazz LP collection! Lucky me had a Teac 4010S and lots of
> blank reels (the 1 mill Ampex stuff), so I managed to tape just
> about everything I could afford tape for. Years later the Teac
> died...I
> borrowed a Sony playback deck and transferred most of it to
> cassette..
> Even as a third-removed copy, some of that still sounds good.
> -maybe it's my ears, or??-
>
> I think the magic is in the music! If you can save a great chunk of
> it in some modern form, ignore the hash. Enjoy the artistry that
> went into the music.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Pledger
I hear ya, bro!
I've been listening to a cassette I made in Madison back in 1978 of a Nat
Adderly concert, which I was allowed to make only because I knew the bass
player & drummer. God, if only I had known what I was doing & could have
made a better recording! The playing was great, although the recording
frankly sucked, and I'd never play it for anyone else. But it's like
reading a good book - once you get into it, you don't even notice that
it's only words on a page...
The whole idea, especially in jazz, is the ideas that come through,
right?
Regards,
Ross
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
=========================================================================
From: Triodont@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Taiwan 101D, 205D and globe 300B
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:35:37 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n179
hi gordon,
don't have the number or anything, but there was thread on this (globe 300Bs)
on r.a.t. somebody reported that the guy who makes these is his personal
friend. maybe you could contact him. dejanews will boot it up, i'm sure.
regards,
ramon
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: [JN] Taiwan 101D, 205D and globe 300B
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 17:03:23 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n179
Gang,
It has been a long time... Anyway in the latest MJ there is a Taiwan
company making 101D, 205D both in tennis ball and globe 300B's.
Anyone know number address fax anything????
Thanks in advance gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: hwang002@ms10.hinet.net
Subject: Re: [JN] Taiwan 101D, 205D and globe 300B
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:37:02 +0800 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n179
Hi :
I am in Tiawan. The maker Tel # is 011-886-2-27012840 (Asian Time 11
AM~9PM). Address
No. 192-1, section 2, Fu-hsing South.
Taipei City
Taiwan.
Will disclose the fax # when I find it. The asking price for 205D is NT$6500
(almost $200/ea).
I believe most of the tubes are made in mainland China (quality is so so).
So, think about it if you want to buy.
Regards
stanley
On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, J. Gordon Rankin wrote:
> Gang,
>
> It has been a long time... Anyway in the latest MJ there is a Taiwan
> company making 101D, 205D both in tennis ball and globe 300B's.
>
> Anyone know number address fax anything????
>
> Thanks in advance gordon
>
>
> =======> Wavelength Audio <=======
> mailto:waudio@cinti.net
> http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
> ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
>
>
=========================================================================
From: hwang002@ms10.hinet.net
Subject: Re: [JN] Taiwan 101D, 205D and globe 300B
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:08:30 +0800 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n179
Hi:
The fax # is, from USA, 011886-2-27541060. If you use telephone, I doubt
they understand what you are talking. So please use fax.
Regards
stanley
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 hwang002@ms10.hinet.net wrote:
> Hi :
>
> I am in Tiawan. The maker Tel # is 011-886-2-27012840 (Asian Time 11
> AM~9PM). Address
>
> No. 192-1, section 2, Fu-hsing South.
> Taipei City
> Taiwan.
>
> Will disclose the fax # when I find it. The asking price for 205D is NT$6500
> (almost $200/ea).
>
> I believe most of the tubes are made in mainland China (quality is so so).
> So, think about it if you want to buy.
>
> Regards
> stanley
>
> On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, J. Gordon Rankin wrote:
>
> > Gang,
> >
> > It has been a long time... Anyway in the latest MJ there is a Taiwan
> > company making 101D, 205D both in tennis ball and globe 300B's.
> >
> > Anyone know number address fax anything????
> >
> > Thanks in advance gordon
> >
> >
> > =======> Wavelength Audio <=======
> > mailto:waudio@cinti.net
> > http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
> > ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: [JN] Taiwan 101D, 205D and globe 300B
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:42:54 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n180
On Tue, 15 Jun 99 17:03:23 -0400, "J. Gordon Rankin"
<waudio@cinti.net> wrote:
>It has been a long time...
Welcome home!
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: [JN] Tamura vs SJS Transformers
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:29:59 +0000 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n035
Hi Folks,
Has anyone done a comparison, or would like to offer an opinion as to
which is best (assuming that I can hear the difference! :-) )
I'm thinking of the 20:1 50 mA SJS line output model pa107 vs. the Tamura
model F2007. These two are roughly the same price.
Does anyone have any experience of the F5002 amorphous core at three times
the price?
It's for my 12B4A based headphone amplifier.
TIA
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Michael D. Schleif" <mds-resource@mediaone.net>
Subject: [JN] Tandberg 3001A repair ???
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:28:23 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n756
Anybody know who is skilled to do some repairs on a Tandberg 3001A tuner
in Chicago area?
- --
Best Regards,
mds
mds resource
888.250.3987
"Dare to fix things before they break . . . "
"Our capacity for understanding is inversely proportional to how much we
think we know. The more I know, the more I know I don't know . . . "
=========================================================================
From: "John Hancock" <John_Hancock@swissre.com>
Subject: [JN] Tango center-tapped chokes
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:46:13 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n180
Somebody on the list mentioned that Tango makes a couple of center-tapped
chokes, suitable for plate loading a pair of driver tubes in PP. One was
built with iron and the other permalloy. Anybody know any more about
these? I haven't been able to get any statistics on them. I will be
running 25mA and swinging +/-150V on each side of the choke--vt25's driving
845's -- any chance either of these chokes could handle that?
Thanks once more, John
=========================================================================
From: "E.J. de Haan" <E.J.de.Haan@cable.A2000.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tango center-tapped chokes
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:58:42 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n181
Hi John,
You might be interested in the following Tangos:
TC 180 12 WN is AFAIK the only one with Permalloy and takes only 12mA/90H
15 mA max.) for your purpose and will set you back for about 17,000 yen, if
memory serves right.
TC 60 35 W takes 35 mA/ 30 H ( 50 mA max.) for your purpose, is a "normal"
cut-core devise and costs 11.500 yen (P&P excluded).
There are also others with lower current and higher inductance or higher
current rate and ( much ) lower inductance.
If you have a serious interest you could fax to Soundshop Big, attn. Mr..
Yokota. He is English literate.
He might send you a datasheet of the item of interest on request
Fax + 81 474 82 3039. No e-mail or website.
Good luck,
Ernst-Jan
Amsterdam
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Hancock <John_Hancock@swissre.com>
To: sound@lists.io.com <sound@lists.io.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 7:54 PM
Subject: [JN] Tango center-tapped chokes
>
>
>
>Somebody on the list mentioned that Tango makes a couple of center-tapped
>chokes, suitable for plate loading a pair of driver tubes in PP. One was
>built with iron and the other permalloy. Anybody know any more about
>these? I haven't been able to get any statistics on them. I will be
>running 25mA and swinging +/-150V on each side of the choke--vt25's driving
>845's -- any chance either of these chokes could handle that?
>
>Thanks once more, John
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "John Hancock" <John_Hancock@swissre.com>
Subject: [JN] Tango chokes
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:37:32 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n198
Thanks to everyone who was kind enough to send me the specs on Tango chokes
a few weeks back. Unfortunately, I could find no mention of the voltage
swing capabilities. I'm no magnetics expert, but shouldn't that be a
concern for chosing a suitable plate-load choke? Is current the critical
factor here or is voltage times current a better indicator?
Thanks again for all the shared knowledge, John
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: [JN] tango finito?
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:28:14 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n606
Joes,
sounds like the dance party is over. On http://www2.cds.ne.jp/~yogawa
I stumbled acrooss the message "NEWS! (For overseas) Hirata
electric(TANGO) seems to discontinue its business on October 20 2000.
If there is the plan that you use a TANGO transformer, I recommend
that you obtain it early."
Hmm.
Christian
=========================================================================
From: "Andy Evans" <arts.psychology@cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] tango finito?
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:13:09 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n606
Hirata electric(TANGO) seems to discontinue its business on October 20 2000.
If there is the plan that you use a TANGO transformer, I recommend
> that you obtain it early.">>
If anyone learns of "special warehouse clearance offers" on the above, we
presume that they will share the info..............
=========================================================================
From: thomas.mayer@philips.com
Subject: [JN] TANGO NC-20
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:16:19 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n644
All,
it seems the rumor is true that Hirata will discontinue the Tango line
of transformers. Inquiries at the usual sources in Japan showed that
most of the stock has been cleared out already.
I tried to get a pair of NC-20 interstage transformers but none seem to be
left. I tried SoundShop BIG, EIFL and Aprilsound. Does anybody know
another possible source ? Or maybe someone has a pair for sale ?
Best regards ... Thomas
=========================================================================
From: "Tony Bombera" <tbombera@pathcom.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] TANGO NC-20
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:45:45 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n659
Hi Joes,
I got a message from Japan yesterday that a Tango employee will start a
company which will manufacture Tango
transformers.
Regards,
Tony Bombera
> >
> > All,
> >
> > it seems the rumor is true that Hirata will discontinue the Tango line
> > of transformers. Inquiries at the usual sources in Japan showed that
> > most of the stock has been cleared out already.
> >
> > I tried to get a pair of NC-20 interstage transformers but none
> seem to be
> > left. I tried SoundShop BIG, EIFL and Aprilsound. Does anybody know
> > another possible source ? Or maybe someone has a pair for sale ?
> >
> > Best regards ... Thomas
>
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: Tango XE-20S Was: [JN] OPT DC or Para
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:50:41 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n637
"Larry D. Moore" wrote:
Snip...
> >
> >3 regular potput stage with Tango XE 20S
>
> I also have these. They are quite goos as well. No nickel sound though.
>
I've got a pair of these too, and they're nice IF you use the whole
secondary. I've been disapointed using them with only part of the
secondary winding (which is necessary with either high primary
impeadance or low impeadance speakers...).
Any thoughts on why?
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com --
http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: Rhthatcher@ra.rockwell.com
Subject: [JN] Tannoy 12" Gold: I need box ideas
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:16:25 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n560
I just got a pair of 12" Golds, and a summer project of mine
will be to build some boxes. I have no technical data for
the drivers or crossovers, so I don't know where to begin.
I've heard that many cabinets built by Tannoy were too small
for the drivers (i.e. give a higher WAF while sacrificing bass).
I'd appreciate any help any of you can offer! Thanks!
Randy
=========================================================================
From: John Niven <jn@cypress.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tannoy 12" Gold: I need box ideas - Rubber Surrounds
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:36:18 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n560
This reminds me of the trouble I caused my kids by bringing them to the
USA. In the UK a "rubber" is used to correct your *written* mistakes, so
when my elder son asked his teacher for one it was innocent - really :-)
John
TubeGarden@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/30/00 12:53:47 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
> Rhthatcher@ra.rockwell.com writes:
>
> > My drivers have
> > Rubber Surrounds.
>
> Ahhh! Safe music!
>
> Al
=========================================================================
From: Rhthatcher@ra.rockwell.com
Subject: [JN] Tannoy 12" Gold: I need box ideas - Rubber Surrounds
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:47:04 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n560
I just got a pair of 12" Golds, and a summer project of mine
will be to build some boxes. I have no technical data for
the drivers or crossovers, so I don't know where to begin.
I've heard that many cabinets built by Tannoy were too small
for the drivers (i.e. give a higher WAF while sacrificing bass).
I guess I forgot to mention the first time... My drivers have
Rubber Surrounds.
I'd appreciate any help any of you can offer! Thanks!
Randy
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Tannoy 12" Gold: I need box ideas - Rubber Surrounds
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:38:03 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n560
In a message dated 5/30/00 12:53:47 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Rhthatcher@ra.rockwell.com writes:
> My drivers have
> Rubber Surrounds.
Ahhh! Safe music!
Al
=========================================================================
From: "Miroslav Kubala" <mikubala@swissonline.ch>
Subject: [JN] Tannoy 15" Dual Concentric// x-over for Westminster??
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:50:53 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n849
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Hi Dan
do you have also the schematic for a Tannoy Westminster( not Royal ).Do =
you know anybody who tryied the tweeks of
Mr. Rosenberg Harvey??
Thank you very much
Mirko
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dan Marshall=20
To: Joenet=20
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: [JN] FS: Tannoy 15" Dual Concentric
I have a single 15" Tannoy 3686 w/o crossover for sale. I have the
schematic diagram and parts list (including recommended brand of =
parts)
for the upgraded crossover using premium components, which, =
reportedly,
is much better than the original crossover. It is not a terribly
complex crossover and should be easily built. Running full-range I
thought the woofer sounded a bit mid-rangey, but the crossover is
shelved to lower the midrange. It is in good condition and functions
properly. First $200 + shipping takes it. I have a couple pics I =
can
email.
Dan Marshall
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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>do you have also the schematic for a =
Tannoy=20
Westminster( not Royal ).Do you know anybody who tryied the tweeks=20
of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mr. Rosenberg Harvey??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you very much</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mirko</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmdaniel7@uswest.net href=3D"mailto:mdaniel7@uswest.net">Dan =
Marshall</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dsound@lists.io.com=20
href=3D"mailto:sound@lists.io.com">Joenet</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 30, 2001 =
11:24=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [JN] FS: Tannoy 15" =
Dual=20
Concentric</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I have a single 15" Tannoy 3686 w/o crossover for =
sale. =20
I have the<BR>schematic diagram and parts list (including =
recommended=20
brand of parts)<BR>for the upgraded crossover using premium =
components, which,=20
reportedly,<BR>is much better than the original crossover. It is =
not a=20
terribly<BR>complex crossover and should be easily built. =
Running=20
full-range I<BR>thought the woofer sounded a bit mid-rangey, but the =
crossover=20
is<BR>shelved to lower the midrange. It is in good condition and =
functions<BR>properly. First $200 + shipping takes it. I=20
have a couple pics I can<BR>email.<BR><BR>Dan=20
Marshall</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B952.BA7A2DC0--
=========================================================================
From: Neil Brown <neilb@nashville.net>
Subject: [JN] Tannoy 6.5 inch dual concentrics
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:38:10 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n539
Looking for some advice here. I picked up a pair of dual concentric drivers
and crossovers ad put em in a suitable sized box and "tuned" to a happy port
length.
Difficulty I am having is a upper midrange voice brightness. I have never
say and listened to the studio monitor using these drivers but comparing
them to my Missions they are peaking an octave or two under the crossover
frequency. So high male and female voices are a little bright. Is this a
damping problem or possibly a refraction problem. I realize I am a little
sketchy but I really am not sure what to try next and funding has almost run
out so I need to try to get it right the first time.
I have tried lining the cabinet which incidentaly is 3/4 inch customwood,
substantially glued and screwed, with polyfill and that helped with the
boxiness but didn't help the upper mids...
Regards
Neil
=========================================================================
From: "pagebleu" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: [JN] Tannoy Arden, anybody knows it?
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:05:40 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n032
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi friends,
Long time no see, but I kept lurking all that time. I've been offered a =
pair of Tannoys "Arden" wich use 15" concentric drivers with foam =
surrounds... The price is fair, and the seller says that though one =
suspension has a small cut in it.. it will last a few years...=20
Anybody knows about this particular model and where parts can be =
available at a decent price? Tannoys here (TGI for Tannoy/Goodmans =
industries) sell cones/suspension as a single unit.. at a high cost.
Thanks in advance
Sylvain Giguere
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi friends,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Long time no see, but I kept lurking all that time. =
I've been=20
offered a pair of Tannoys "Arden" wich use 15" concentric =
drivers=20
with foam surrounds... The price is fair, and the seller says that =
though one=20
suspension has a small cut in it.. it will last a few years... =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Anybody knows about this particular model and where =
parts can=20
be available at a decent price? Tannoys here (TGI for Tannoy/Goodmans=20
industries) sell cones/suspension as a single unit.. at a high=20
cost.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks in advance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Sylvain Giguere</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01BE52AB.5337BE80--
=========================================================================
From: bruce seifried <grounded@javanet.com>
Subject: [JN] Tannoy cabinet designs...?
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:07:27 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n552
Hi all,
It's time for me to do something useful with my 12" Tannoy Little Red drivers, such as put
them into boxes that actually allow low end to happen. Anyone out there have any direct
experience with a box design that works, and is relatively simple to build? Has anyone
successfully put then into Onken boxes? Thoughts..?
Bruce Seifried
Eclair Engineering
grounded@javanet.com
=========================================================================
From: "Harry Pitaro" <pitaro@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: [JN] Tannoy GRF plans
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:40:49 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n327
Hi all,
I'm trying to locate some plans for the Tannoy GRF enclosure. I understand
it was a twin slot loaded rear corner horn. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
Harry Pitaro
Melbourne, Australia
pitaro@ozemail.com.au
It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then
don't say it.
-Sam Levenson
=========================================================================
From: "Sylvain Giguere" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tannoy GRF plans
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:46:49 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n328
Hi there,
I have owned Tannoys Silver 15" and of course have run after such plans...
What I got from Tannoys (after much problems) was 2 or 3 different versions
of the GRF, and I mean "totally different". Ranging from a corner horn à la
Klipsch to the actual Westminster...
I've given the plans to the guy I sold the drivers, but I might have a copy
somewhere of one plan. I'll have a look today and let you know "if" I get
something out of my acheologic searches...
I now use the Tannoys "Ardens", wich are 15" with foam surrounds in huge
bass reflex boxes. (I equally have a pair of 12". In my view the more modern
drivers have less peaks and dips in the mids, but have a bass that's less
fast.
Sylvain G.
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] Tannoy HF Diaphrams
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:14:42 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n092
Hi All,
I came across a bit of a problem with the Tannoy Golds. The chap who
bought them found that one is somewhat brighter than the other. I
hadn't noticed this in 30 years. Oh well, so much for my golden ears.
Anyway he measured the VC dc resistance and found the brighter sounding
one to measure 11.2 ohms, 0.88 mH and the other 12.1 ohms, 1.19 mH. The
Tannoy bloke says they changed to a lower impedance back around that
time and it sounds like I may have one of each type which he identified
as a 3LZ and a pre 1970 diaphram. Further, he added that the part
number I need is 7900 0205. Not to definitive an answer, all in all.
He suggested that I call the North American Distributor to order the
part.
Well, they exactly didn't come of as experts. The first person said
that eleven ohms sounds about right and referred me to his in-house
expert who didn't have a clue. While on the phone he went over and
measured one and reported that it measured 9 ohms and that part number
was the only diaphram they stock for the 12 inch Gold. So this all
totals up to about zero as a solution, as I don't intend to buy two
diaphrams at their prices in order to get a matched pair.
Anyway, if anyone has any experience in this area and can offer any
helpful information it would be much appreciated. And if anyone has a
pair of 12 Golds handy, I would appreciate it if you would measure the
HF VCs and email the results. With a bit of luck someone may have the
same problem and we can do a trade, or something, or perhaps someone has
a new or used replacement diaphram that will match one of the exisiting
units which they would be willing to sell or trade. Stranger things
have happened and you never know until you ask.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: "Sylvain Giguere" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tannoy HF Diaphrams
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:52:53 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n092
Hello Daniel,
The "Golds" you refer to, is there a number denomination? I have a pair of
HPD315 (12") drivers wich are also labeled "Royal Gold"... these are the
ones from the seventies and do have foam surrounds.. Are your's only paper
cone and suspension?
If you are interested, I can easily measure them. Just let me know.
Sylvain Giguère
=========================================================================
From: "Anthony J. Knettel" <AKnettel@compuserve.com>
Subject: Tannoy Little Reds
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:24:05 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n001
The recent mention of Tannoy Golds up for auction on
eBay reminded me that I recently saw an ad for a pair
of Tannoy "Little Reds." I understand these to be one-
time industry standard studio monitors. Can anyone on
the list offer some background, history, and the relevant
differences between these and Tannoy's home audio
products? Not recalling any mention of them here on
JoeList, I assume they are not held in the same high
regard -- or are they? TIA
Anthony
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd" <bart.shepherd@ttm.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Tannoy Little Reds
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:58:53 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n002
Dont know about "Little Reds" but i have info on Tannoy Reds as used in
recording studios.
These use a 15 inch dual concentric driver and adjustable xover VERY similar
to those used in previous Hi-Fi models. They are higher powered and slightly
less efficient 92db. Box is a moderate sized bass reflex and sound flat to
bit less than 40Hz. Would go below 30Hz if box bigger.
They will go VERY loud as can take peaks on 500watts below 1,000Hz and
250watts above.
Would be OK as Hi-Fi speakers too.
The dual concentric works as all you Tannoy owners know and offers a certain
sound coherence not found with multiple separate drivers or large panels.
Maybe Little Reds are a smaller lower powered version with a similar but 12
inch or 10 inch driver.
Cheers,
Bart
- -----Original Message-----
From: Anthony J. Knettel <AKnettel@compuserve.com>
To: JoeList <sound@lists.io.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 10:07 AM
Subject: Tannoy Little Reds
>The recent mention of Tannoy Golds up for auction on
>eBay reminded me that I recently saw an ad for a pair
>of Tannoy "Little Reds." I understand these to be one-
>time industry standard studio monitors. Can anyone on
>the list offer some background, history, and the relevant
>differences between these and Tannoy's home audio
>products? Not recalling any mention of them here on
>JoeList, I assume they are not held in the same high
>regard -- or are they? TIA
>
>Anthony
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: JOENET Re: Tannoy Little Reds
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n003
At 5:24 PM -0500 1/19/99, Anthony J. Knettel wrote:
>The recent mention of Tannoy Golds up for auction on
>eBay reminded me that I recently saw an ad for a pair
>of Tannoy "Little Reds." I understand these to be one-
>time industry standard studio monitors. Can anyone on
>the list offer some background, history, and the relevant
>differences between these and Tannoy's home audio
>products? Not recalling any mention of them here on
>JoeList, I assume they are not held in the same high
>regard -- or are they? TIA
Anthony, there's a guy in our area who used to work with Vu (of "Deja Vu"
audio store) who knows Tannoys backwards and forwards and deals in new and
used drivers. Gary...? Anyone else in DC know his last name? I trashed
his e-mail address by accident. Anyway, I can find out more for you if you
want to investigate these...
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: tannoy person
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:33:08 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n007
william g wrote to grover g
>>Hi Grover : I have a pair of Tannoys that were destroyed by UPS when I
>>loaned them to Arthur Loesch . I would like to find some factory cone
>>(rebuild Kits ) . If you find this guys name please let me know . Thanks
>>and best regards . Bill
grover g responded to william g
>It's Gary Gill. Anthony Knettel has his e-mail address. Gary would
>probably know how to get these reconed.
>
>Grover Gardner
and as you can see william g is trying to find Anthony Knettels e-mail
address so I can find Gary Gill. If your looking in Anthony please contact
me off line . Thanks in advance . B Gardner
=========================================================================
From: "Sylvain Giguere" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: [JN] Tannoy polyprop
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:00:12 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n082
Message en plusieurs parties et au format MIME.
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Mark Donen wrote:
<<Has anyone tried or have the new style poly coned Tannoys? How do they
compare with the old ones? Any experiences or opinions to share on =
this?>>
I had a pair of 12" Tannoys with polypropylene cone (semi translucid, =
whitish) And they had a sound balance very similar to my HPD 315 =
concentric drivers (12"also) wich date from the mid 70's. The only =
noticeable difference was in the low register where the bass could =
sometime have the polyprop "thump" signature but nothing annoying or =
really noticeable unless you happen to have a pair of paper cones (like =
me) to compare with.
By the way, I find that the concentric drivers from the 70's to now do =
exhibit much less "cup hand" coloration than the "vintage drivers" so =
praised by collectors. These more modern versions are more neutral, have =
excellent imaging and details, are more easily available and ... =
cheaper. A good mate to any decent SE amp. I even got very good results =
with them when using Bastien's (here on the list) grunge style Se 2A3 =
Loftin White.
Sylvain Gigu=E8re
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2> <FONT size=3D3>Mark Donen=20
wrote:</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT size=3D3><<Has anyone =
tried or have=20
the new style poly coned Tannoys? How do they<BR>compare with the old =
ones? Any=20
experiences or opinions to share on this?>></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>I had a pair of =
12" Tannoys=20
with polypropylene cone (semi translucid, whitish) And they had a sound =
balance=20
very similar to my HPD 315 concentric drivers (12"also) wich date =
from the=20
mid 70's. The only noticeable difference was in the low register where =
the bass=20
could sometime have the polyprop "thump" signature but nothing =
annoying or really noticeable unless you happen to have a pair of paper =
cones=20
(like me) to compare with.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>By the way, I find =
that the=20
concentric drivers from the 70's to now do exhibit much less "cup=20
hand" coloration than the "vintage drivers" so praised by =
collectors. These more modern versions are more neutral, have excellent =
imaging=20
and details, are more easily available and ... cheaper. A good mate to =
any=20
decent SE amp. I even got very good results with them when using =
Bastien's (here=20
on the list) grunge style Se 2A3 Loftin White.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>Sylvain=20
Giguère</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE72E2.5B224320--
=========================================================================
From: Dan Marshall <mdaniel7@uswest.net>
Subject: [JN] Tannoy Speaker Wtd/Trade
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 20:37:04 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n750
Hi All,
I recently picked up a one-only 12" Tannoy Dual-Concentric stage monitor
speaker and would like to find a mate for it, if anyone knows of one.
Anyone ever play around with these or compare them with regular
Tannoys? It looks to be a relatively recent model with a gold frame and
a ceramic magnet. A black plastic dome covers the tweeter diaphragm
and it has a fabric cone surround. There is no model number on the
speaker or the enclosure. A raw speaker would be of interest as well,
or if anyone has a pair of Tannoys and is keenly interested in an
excellent stage monitor, a trade would be gladly entertained (yeah
right) - with boot, of course. A pair currently listed on eBay is
identical in appearance, for identification purposes, in case anyone
needs to ID one. No, he doesn't want to entertain a trade.
The speaker in the stage monitor differs somewhat from Tannoy Hi-Fi
versions in that it is designed for high power usage with a quite stiff
cone suspension resulting in a rather high fs of around a hundred Hz
which makes the bass resonse a bit thin requiring a subwoofer. Aha, a
perfect excuse to get on with the enclosure for the 18" JBL 2245H, come
spring. Anyway, except for the lack of low bass, it sounds quite nice,
better than the speakers I am currently using. I'm getting tired of
screwing around with trying every darn speaker that comes along and
would like to settle down on a more or less permanent system and a pair
of these with the big JBL sub driven by a SS amp and the JBL BX63
xover/eq would keep me happy for a good while.
A pair of the 15" JBL 2235Hs in some sort of trade for the 18" 2245H
would be of interest as well, as they could be used in my current
enclosures.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Tannoys was Re: Stax headphones
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 05:57:58 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n430
Hi All. Here is what I got from Tannoy technical support.
Hi David
The 12" Monitor Gold (LSU/HF/12-8) was the successor to the Monitor
Red which succeeded the Monitor Black. The improvements were 8 ohm
impedance instead of 15, slightly heavier cone mass for better bass
and a higher power handling capability.
To get 40Hz from these units you need a cabinet of about 150 litres.
No plans are available for this size but you can make a cabinet from
25mm Finnish birch plywood using standard speaker principles. There
are many books and articles about how to do this. Tune the cabinet to
35Hz, I suggest 2 port tubes of around 100mm diameter and
200mm long to start with. Extending the tubes lowers the tuning,
again there are standard formulae for this but to do it accurately you
need to measure the impedance in the 20Hz to 100 Hz area using a
sinewave oscillator and an analogue multimeter and tune the dip
between 2 peaks to the cutoff frequency you require.
This is what I built, with the exception of using a single 150mm port.
They are lovely sounding and I will keep them for a long long time.
Regards, David
- -----Original Message-----
From: Martin/Campbell family [mailto:martincampbell@apex.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 3:08 AM
To: TubeGarden@aol.com
Cc: sp
Subject: [JN] Tannoys was Re: Stax headphones
I don't know which Tannoys you have. I have Tannoy 15" dual concentrics
Monitor Gold (current from '67-74ish). I considered the Tannoy horns, got
the plans and decided that were too hard to make. I asked Tannoy for their
recommendation for the best simple box. They said a 300L box with four
ports all of 100mm diameter, 250mm length. I did this and am very happy
with the results. Very important in a box this size (about a domestic
refrigerator size and shape) is to brace and damp the panels well. Mine are
50mm thick with sand inside the walls. I could look up Tannoy's
recommendation for the 12" Monitor Golds. They had a smaller suggestion
also. I suspect that sealed would not work. I have heard my drivers in a
smaller sealed box and there is just not enough bass, a consequence of the
low Q. My boxes with reflex loading and using their proximity to corners
measured flat down to 20Hz although T/S sums would have suggested mid-30s.
Peter Campbell
>With respect to the Tannoys, have you considered transmission lines--I
recall
>reading a comment by a UK commentator that he was favorably impressed by
such
>a set up. Otherwise, I'd recommend a TS based sealed box--although I recall
>seeing a picture of a set of Tannoys, merely mounted on plain, open backed,
>large plywood panels in a long ago Japanese publication. Dimensions looked
to
>be 4x8 feet or so.
>
>Alex
>
>TubeGarden@aol.com writes:
>
><< > Since I can't find the right plans for a good enclosure for my Tannoy
> > concentrics (I'm not happy with the baffles they're residing in now),
I'm
> > now listening to my favourite music almost only with headphones.......
=========================================================================
From: "Martin/Campbell family" <martincampbell@apex.net.au>
Subject: [JN] Tannoys was Re: Stax headphones
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:07:52 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n430
I don't know which Tannoys you have. I have Tannoy 15" dual concentrics
Monitor Gold (current from '67-74ish). I considered the Tannoy horns, got
the plans and decided that were too hard to make. I asked Tannoy for their
recommendation for the best simple box. They said a 300L box with four
ports all of 100mm diameter, 250mm length. I did this and am very happy
with the results. Very important in a box this size (about a domestic
refrigerator size and shape) is to brace and damp the panels well. Mine are
50mm thick with sand inside the walls. I could look up Tannoy's
recommendation for the 12" Monitor Golds. They had a smaller suggestion
also. I suspect that sealed would not work. I have heard my drivers in a
smaller sealed box and there is just not enough bass, a consequence of the
low Q. My boxes with reflex loading and using their proximity to corners
measured flat down to 20Hz although T/S sums would have suggested mid-30s.
Peter Campbell
>With respect to the Tannoys, have you considered transmission lines--I recall
>reading a comment by a UK commentator that he was favorably impressed by such
>a set up. Otherwise, I'd recommend a TS based sealed box--although I recall
>seeing a picture of a set of Tannoys, merely mounted on plain, open backed,
>large plywood panels in a long ago Japanese publication. Dimensions looked to
>be 4x8 feet or so.
>
>Alex
>
>TubeGarden@aol.com writes:
>
><< > Since I can't find the right plans for a good enclosure for my Tannoy
> > concentrics (I'm not happy with the baffles they're residing in now), I'm
> > now listening to my favourite music almost only with headphones.......
=========================================================================
From: "Martin/Campbell family" <martincampbell@apex.net.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tannoys was Re: Stax headphones
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 22:47:20 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n432
>Hi Martin,
Actually, I'm Peter. I thought of the martincampbell email address as my
wife surname and mine together. Now people address me as Martin. Anyway, to
the topic at hand:
>
> I forgot to add that I was thinking of a subwoofer complement. How
>efficient are the Tannoy Golds (15, 12 and 10)? What are you driving them
>with?
The 15" are somewherre about 96db/w/m. To put it another way, on the same
volume position they sounded equally loud as the Lowther PM6A Acousta they
replaced and much louder than most other speakers that I fix up for friends
etc. IE the usual 87-90db/w/m sort.
I guess the 12" and 10" might be a couple of db less but I have never heard
or seen those.
I am using a single-ended VV32 amp of my own design. These have curves
almost exactly the same as a 300B and I use them at an operating point that
should in theory give about 12W. This is plenty of power for the tannoys.
Many people think SE amps are not up to providing the bottom octave. I
think this is only true if the output transformer doesn't quite have enough
inductance and this unfortunately seemed to me to be the case for quite a
few well regarded trannies when I was looking at specs and trying to get a
synthesis of people's subjective impressions before buying a transformer. I
am using a Sowter SE08As which have a pretty beefy 6Kg core.
Most people comment favourably about the deep bass of my speakers. It
happily reproduces the low rumbles of trains and trucks etc that make their
way onto certain recordings. Organ pedals can get that nice "shake in the
air" effect. With test tones in the bottom octave I can make the room's
plaster board walls vibrate. When an acquaintance put a microphone in the
port, the output looked flat from 20Hz to 70Hz although I know it is
supposed to just be a hump for only a third of an octave or so. The box is
tuned to 32 or 35Hz from memory, the free air resonance of the driver is
supposed to be 20Hz. I am deliberately using proximity to the corner to
help the bottom octave.
In summary I don't feel the need for a subwoofer.
I have the reflex box suggestions for the 12 and 15" Monitor Golds from
Tannoy.
=========================================================================
From: "Martin/Campbell family" <martincampbell@apex.net.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tannoys was Re: Stax headphones
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:51:10 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n432
PS. Have a look at
http://users.bigpond.com/tunnelgap/tannoy/tannoy1.html
for lots of nice Tannoy stuff.
Peter.
=========================================================================
From: <ccrayc@ust.hk>
Subject: [JN] Taped inductor, was re: UREI 809
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:57:41 +0800 (HKT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n015
Dear Joes,
Looking at the UREI809 reminds me that I'd like to know the
correct calculation method of tapped inductors.
Would it be like this ? :
A-coil-B-coil-C
L(A-C)=square ( sqrt(L(A-B)) + sqrt(L(B-C)) )
Cheers
Raymond
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: [JN] Tape EQ?
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:36:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n066
Hi Dudes,
Can anyone help me out with the time constants for NAB and CCIR
tape replay at 3 3/4, 7 1/2 and 15 IPS?
Am working on some tape head preamp ideas...
Thanks, Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tape EQ?
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:46:47 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n066
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Allen Wright wrote:
> Hi Dudes,
> Can anyone help me out with the time constants for NAB and CCIR
> tape replay at 3 3/4, 7 1/2 and 15 IPS?
>
> Am working on some tape head preamp ideas...
Have you seen Walt Jung's section on that in AD's System
Applications Guide? Lots of info and refs, if not the exact
answer to that question.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] tape recorders _Hifi VCR's
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:18:17 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n420
In a message dated 1/27/00 4:56:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au writes:
> I wonder if anyone else has done this
Tim,
Thanks for reminding me! I have a nice old Panasonic Hi-Fi VHS that has been
idled by Digital cable...
Into my audio lair, quick as a bunny :)
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
=========================================================================
From: Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au
Subject: [JN] tape recorders _Hifi VCR's
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:53:46 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n420
There have been some posts on this recently.
As an avid FM listener I do need to record and time-shift broadcasts that are on
at inconvenient times.
I used to use my first HIFI VHS VCR for this but it died and the one in the tv
room now has no record level controls Just ARC. most new models don't anymore.
So I've been looking for a S/H replacement. First one I took was a Philips,
terrible, but they let me swap it for a National / Panasonic model F55, which
has 4 heads and VHS HQ. My guru now tells me that it's one of the last of the
good ones, along with the F90 and the Sony's. Solid chassis and transport,
only design flaw is a regulator that runs too hot and needs a heatsink! It cost
me $aus 205!
It sounds wonderful, despite not having the sheer hobbyist cred of a big 10.5
inch reel Technics 1500 or a Revox. I will be making comparisons with my
Nakamichi BX300 (set up fo TDK AR and Dolby C) tomorrow night. Next project is
to make some 'party' and 'dinner' tapes.
I wonder if anyone else has done this, one advantage is being able to set the
timings on the machine instead of on a mains switch timer. This is I think a
serious option for the cash starved audiophile. Despite the less than good tape
handling. I wonder where I can find a Sony ADC and DAC thingies? The PCMF1 and
701 ring a bell.
It is crucial to switch them to Aux/audio only input so that they don't try to
receive Tv stations previously memorised.
Tim B
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=========================================================================
From: "Henry Platt" <hnplatt@massed.net>
Subject: [JN] Tape Restoration Question
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 21:19:25 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n935
Hi Joes,
I have a problem which I believe may find a solution among the collective
intelligence (and experience) of the Joelist. Back in my student days in
Cambridge (Mass) in the early eighties, I made hundreds of hours of tapes of
often rare material from the Harvard University Radio station's "Orgies".
These are marathon sessions of "The complete recorded legacy of
.........(fill in your favorite artist or composer here) " They still play
these every January and May during exam periods. These tapes are very
valuable to me. They are Reel to Reel tapes and they have begun to
disintegrate, not physically, but audibly. After about a minute they begin
to squeal. Then they become unbearable. I have determined that the squeal
is mechanical in origin, but becomes an audio electronic event as well. It
comes from both the tape transport and through the speakers. I have also
come to the perhaps erronious conclusion that there was some form of
lubricative substance on the tape that has subsequently "dried out" over
time. Is ther any hope for these tapes? is there someone out there who has
dealt with this problem successfully? If so I'd love to hear from ya. I
can't stand the thought of all that great music going into the dustbin.
Thanks,
Henry Platt
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Babiak" <paulbabiak@home.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tape Restoration Question
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 21:52:51 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n935
Try here first.
http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry Platt" <hnplatt@massed.net>
To: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 9:19 PM
Subject: [JN] Tape Restoration Question
> Hi Joes,
> I have a problem which I believe may find a solution among the collective
> intelligence (and experience) of the Joelist. Back in my student days in
> Cambridge (Mass) in the early eighties, I made hundreds of hours of tapes
of
> often rare material from the Harvard University Radio station's "Orgies".
> These are marathon sessions of "The complete recorded legacy of
> .........(fill in your favorite artist or composer here) " They still play
> these every January and May during exam periods. These tapes are very
> valuable to me. They are Reel to Reel tapes and they have begun to
> disintegrate, not physically, but audibly. After about a minute they begin
> to squeal. Then they become unbearable. I have determined that the squeal
> is mechanical in origin, but becomes an audio electronic event as well. It
> comes from both the tape transport and through the speakers. I have also
> come to the perhaps erronious conclusion that there was some form of
> lubricative substance on the tape that has subsequently "dried out" over
> time. Is ther any hope for these tapes? is there someone out there who has
> dealt with this problem successfully? If so I'd love to hear from ya. I
> can't stand the thought of all that great music going into the dustbin.
> Thanks,
> Henry Platt
=========================================================================
From: Ross J Lahlum <rlahlum@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tape Restoration Question
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:33:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n935
Henry,
Sounds like you might have used Ampex tape. I've had the same experience
with Grand Master (456), which was highly regarded, so I used it for
everything in my student days in Wisconsin (late 70's). I even have
master tapes I made (2nd copies concurrently made) when I worked
part-time in the School of Music recording studio. They sounded great,
and I used them as my reference, but now they squeal. I've heard you can
bake them out (see Paul Babiak's email), after which they are good for
just a few plays, enough so you can dub them. I haven't tried this yet.
If you try it and are successful, please let the list know!
Best regards,
Ross
On Sat, 28 Jul 2001 21:19:25 -0400 "Henry Platt" <hnplatt@massed.net>
writes:
> Hi Joes,
> I have a problem which I believe may find a solution among the
> collective
> intelligence (and experience) of the Joelist. Back in my student
> days in
> Cambridge (Mass) in the early eighties, I made hundreds of hours of
> tapes of
> often rare material from the Harvard University Radio station's
> "Orgies".
> These are marathon sessions of "The complete recorded legacy of
> .........(fill in your favorite artist or composer here) " They
> still play
> these every January and May during exam periods. These tapes are
> very
> valuable to me. They are Reel to Reel tapes and they have begun to
> disintegrate, not physically, but audibly. After about a minute they
> begin
> to squeal. Then they become unbearable. I have determined that the
> squeal
> is mechanical in origin, but becomes an audio electronic event as
> well. It
> comes from both the tape transport and through the speakers. I have
> also
> come to the perhaps erronious conclusion that there was some form of
> lubricative substance on the tape that has subsequently "dried out"
> over
> time. Is ther any hope for these tapes? is there someone out there
> who has
> dealt with this problem successfully? If so I'd love to hear from
> ya. I
> can't stand the thought of all that great music going into the
> dustbin.
> Thanks,
> Henry Platt
________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
From: "Dave Slagle" <dslagle@earthlink.net>
Subject: [JN] tap tap....is this thing on...
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:27:10 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n058
ok first with the old news....
One line replies sent to the list are not cute... they suck... none of us
care (except of course for the other one-liners quick to reply).. IF you
have a problem with this thought of mine... send me a note PRIVATELY...
since noone else cares... and I don't want to have to tell you to eat me in
public.
as much as many of you think off topic posts give us a sense of community...
wrong... it shows how selfish and egocentric many of us are... here comes
my if you don't subscribe to SP you are urinal slime rant.... we are all
here out of the kindness of papa joe... he wants no moderation and I applaud
him, but we also have to realize that his interests outside of the tube
realm never find it into the pages of SP... so we should follow the same
common courtesy for his list...
sorry about that....I will now offer up some personal experiences of the
last few days to make up for my waste of your time... one-line repliers...
you can stop reading now....
NYnoise is coming, and I was offered the chance to build an amp...OK well
clip one together on a few chunks of plywood... so I gathered up all the
stuff I had leared over the past few months/years in my kiss approach and
glued them all together into what would be my dream amp...it was comprised
with a whole bunch of allegedly cool dumpster parts... and some other paid
for prestige parts... the highlight should be some of the michael ulbrich
ni-fe outputs...
so essentially my plan was to rebuld my last two stages onto a somewhat
mobile platform to lug over to jc's... all was going well got the ps chassis
up and sounded fine, the filter chassis was next, and then the signal
chasis... um er piece of plywood... anyhoos got it all connected back up
and working properly before a fellow joe stopped over... it fired up a few
minutes before he showed... and well the sound was awful... i tried to hide
it with parlour tricks... nope... no can do...
the weird thing.. this amp is completely switchable to anything you want,
and it was my belief that a swap here and a clip there would solve any
ill... boy was I wrong... the beautiful.. glorious.. lush.. make even a CD
sound good sound was gone... I had a weird over etched piss poor watch
seinfeild sound... over the next feww days I looked at everything that could
have stolen my sound to no avail... as it was said I circled clearly around
where I wanted to be without ever getting closer.
So this morning three days into unbearable sound... I was ready to toss in
the towel... I called everyone I could think of in total dismay... suddenly
it was blackie who hit the nail on the head...
bias... I was biased... it seems that the major change between the two
incarnations that I didn't address was the cap selection of the driver
stage... I went from a high dcr choke solen combo to a low DCR defib cap
combo.. and my current thinking had me convinced that the low dcr chokes and
teflon dielectric foil in oil defib caps had to be better... it couldn't be
that... could it...
now I have said many times how I hate solens... and I was gonna be damned if
I would let them be better... finally I gave in and swapped out the defibs
for the solens and my sound was back... the values were comprable, but the
difference was amazing.... words canot explain... I am still baffled...I
guess I am glad I was open mined enough (barely) to allow those nasty
inferior solens back into my system...hell I had teflon and oil caps... it
kills me.. but the solens will stay... and another lesson learned... you
can have too much of a good thing...
btw... I still have 10 of the defib caps in my fixed bias and output
supplies... and wouldn't trade them for anything... give me a week, and my
opinions may change... thats the beauty of it...
they are just opinions....but solens... gotta try elna's tomorrow.... the
oil caps didn't cut it either... thsa's???? I guess the bar is set...
OK pondscum still reading... see how it works... put some thought into what
you type and we may all get something out of it... if it has no merit on its
own send it privately....
love
dave
thinking at least the geodesical dome off topic thread had some thought and
colour.
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: [JN] tap tap....is this thing on...
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:22:43 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n059
On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:27:10 -0500, "Dave Slagle"
<dslagle@earthlink.net> wrote:
>One line replies sent to the list are not cute... they suck...
But what really suck are messages complaining about what subjects are
and are not appropriate for this mailing list.
- --dnb
(note: two lines)
=========================================================================
From: "John Hancock" <John_Hancock@swissre.com>
Subject: [JN] targeted bandwidth OPTs
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:40:44 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n731
>Does anyone offer output transformers designed for limited bandwidth
>applications, bi-amp or tri-amp?
Besides the Tango H5S that Dave mentioned, Bartolucci also has a 5K singled
ended OPT designed for the mid-high frequency range (check www.triodes.nl,
model 95). They have a custom design service too so you can get what you
want. Sowter also has a custom design service. I was thinking of getting
some mumetal parafeed OPTs from them for triamp duty.
John
=========================================================================
From: "Dave Slagle" <dslagle@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] T-attenuator math??
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 13:24:07 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n247
christian,
I can't help you out on the math, but i think the second T attenuator you
refer to is a Bridged T... there is a small section in termen about it, I
can scan it for you if you like.
as for the referenced circuits... I like them a lot.... look at all of that
iron both step up and step down... this is one of the first schematics that
i have seen stepping down to 600 ohms and attenuating then stepping back up!
this was presented to me about a year ago by someone from the friendly
skies, and i reluctantly tried it... and liked it!
I met with another fellow who has traveled a similar path... and he too
steps down and attenuates at 300 ohms or so.
its pretty funny, I met this guy when jack at EP said he was also winding
him low DCR chokes... we talked and it was scary... our setups were nearly
identical...but our ideologies were identical the big difference was he was
20 years into his quest and formed his, i am three years, but i essentially
stole my beliefs... and my ears confirmed them... the strange thing is..
these two guys were about 300 miles apart, and have never heard of each
other.
and in every case it seems one of our friends in japan has been there done
that.
all i can do is be thankful and consider myself lucky that this resource is
here... otherwise the sound i have now would still be 18 years away.
and of course ther is probably someone 4 blocks away doing the same damn
thing...
thanks guys!
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: [JN] T-attenuator math??
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 14:57:48 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n247
I've posted this yesterday but it didn't show up on the Joenet. So here
I am again...:
Joes,
Thorsten pointed me to a very interesting japanese site with a pretty
much over-the-top preamp:
http://www2.cds.ne.jp/~yogawa/dh_priamp/dh_priamp.htm
and especially
http://www2.cds.ne.jp/~yogawa/dh_priamp/flatamp/flatamp.htm
What I find particularly interesting is the 600 ohms T-Attenuator. Since
I don't understand any Japanese, I suppose the the first attn from left
is for volume and the second for the channel balance.
OK. Here's my problem:
Conventional T-attenuators with constant input and output impedance look
like that:
in------R1---R1------out
|
|
R2
|
|
GND
This fellow uses the following schematic, varying only R3 and R2,
keeping a 600R in the series path all the time:
|---- R3----|
| |
in-----|-600-|-600-|----out
|
R2
|
|
GND
How does one calculate the values for R2 and R3? (Especially R3 is
tricky -- how many of the 1200 ohms are parallel with R3 before being
shunted via R2??)
The math for a "conventional" T-attenuator according to RDH is:
K = Ein/Eout
R1 = z*(K-1/K+1)
R2 = 2*z*K/k^2-1
For a 600 ohm impedance and a 10 dB attenuation with let's say 2V in
this gives:
K = 2V/0.2V = 10
R1: 600*(9/11) = 731R
R2: 12000/99 = 121R
How do I calculate a log scale of R3 and R2?
Thanks for helping me out!!
Christian
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] T-attenuator math??
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:43:01 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n247
- -----Original Message-----
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
To: Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
Date: 15 August, 1999 9:13 AM
Subject: [JN] T-attenuator math??
>Thorsten pointed me to a very interesting japanese site
> with a pretty much over-the-top preamp:
>
>http://www2.cds.ne.jp/~yogawa/dh_priamp/dh_priamp.htm
>
and notice the Magnequest line out transformers--
aren't these the same ones which were offered
on sale to the list a few weeks ago???
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: [JN] T attenuators from Terman
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:30:08 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n270
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=37049&a=237575&p=11879429&Sequence=1
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=37049&a=237575&p=11879435&Sequence=1
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=37049&a=237575&p=11879437&Sequence=1
the following three links go to pages i promised to scan... sorry for the delay
dave
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: [JN] Taylor TZ20 triodes
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 17:28:03 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n826
Anybody know anything about what these tube are? Taylor TZ20's.
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: SBench@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Taylor TZ20 triodes
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 18:59:21 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n826
In a message dated 01-03-04 17:30:08 EST, svanos@queencity.com writes:
> Anybody know anything about what these tube are? Taylor TZ20's.
>
> Thanks, Steve
>
Hi Steve and All,
Ned at Triode Electronics (www.triodeel.com) has the whole
Taylor catalog up on his website.
It's a transmitting triode. Interesting characteristics BTW.
Works reasonably well biased into A2 operation. (My current
mode of investigation).
Best Regards,
Steve
=========================================================================
From: Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au
Subject: [JN] Re: TCHOOB TCHUNAS and TVI
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 14:09:53 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n511
Hi to the Joes,
I've been thinking a bit more about this since a local magazine, Silicon Chip,
published a letter I sent. This was written before I knew that a filter was
feasible and 'cost effective'. Now that I know it works I want to pass the
following points on.
(Joe; perhaps this, and my recent post with history, could go in an archive
under 'tube radio'?)
I have to disagree with Silicon Chip's recommendation of separate cable runs for
TV and FM. It seems valve local oscillator modules in 'older' hifi FM tuners
are quite prone to this problem. Usually triggered by just one station
frequency?
Other people are going down the restored/ rebuilt valve 'hifi' tuner (or
receiver) track, and
(a) might value knowing about the possibility of TVI, and
(b) the economical solution, an LP filter above 109mhz; inside the device,
or in line with the coax from the wall socket. See below.
My intuition also suggests that a separate TV antenna and/or cabling runs may
not solve the problem, especially if using the same mast! Unfiltered spuriae
could still be re-radiated by your FM antenna into the TV system! This may well
have been a factor in my situation, making it worse, (ghosted interference
waves!?).
I would be pleased to save others the hassles, and expense of putting in
separate cabling.
If you examine my costings it is clearly better to apply a low pass filter to
trap the spurious harmonics from entering the antenna cable system in the first
place.
I have calculated the full cost of installing 4 separate single outlets (3 @ $5
ea) $ 15
Half cost of the existing filtered FM/TV outlets [( 2 @ $6.95)/2] ( a sunk
cost) ($ 7)
1/3 cost of Fuba 4-way mast multiplexer ($45) ( " " "
) ($ 15)
Cable, 30 metres RG6 @ $1.5/m
$ 45
3 - way splitter (under house)
$ 9
Labour, or my inconvenience (risk of spider bites, grazes, etc while
under house), also lower tall mast and lay second run of cable thru splitter,
cut holes and install 3 wall plates (5 hours minimum)
(X?)
So, a separate cable run is 'costing me' $69,
plus ($22, plus X)
cf a LP (109mhz)Filter $56
dollars
Note that my labour/time in finding out the cause and my options is not counted,
as it applies to either option.
Without the two 'sunk costs', and labour and inconvenience, the filter solution,
@ $56 dollars, is still cheaper, and has also solved the problem for any future
user/owner of the Kenwood. I will be installing it inside the case soon.
Regards,
Tim Bailey
=========================================================================
From: Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au
Subject: [JN] Re: TCHOOB TCHUNAS and TVI
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:42:18 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n511
Hi to the Joes,
I've been thinking a bit more about this since a local magazine, Silicon Chip,
published a letter I sent. This was written before I knew that a filter was
feasible and 'cost effective'. Now that I know it works I want to pass the
following points on.
(Joe; perhaps this, and my recent post with history, could go in an archive
under 'tube radio'?)
I have to disagree with Silicon Chip's recommendation of separate cable runs for
TV and FM. It seems valve local oscillator modules in 'older' hifi FM tuners
are quite prone to this problem. Usually triggered by just one station
frequency?
Other people are going down the restored/ rebuilt valve 'hifi' tuner (or
receiver) track, and
(a) might value knowing about the possibility of TVI, and
(b) the economical solution, an LP filter above 109mhz; inside the device,
or in line with the coax from the wall socket. See below.
My intuition also suggests that a separate TV antenna and/or cabling runs may
not solve the problem, especially if using the same mast! Unfiltered spuriae
could still be re-radiated by your FM antenna into the TV system! This may well
have been a factor in my situation, making it worse, (ghosted interference
waves!?).
I would be pleased to save others the hassles, and expense of putting in
separate cabling.
If you examine my costings it is clearly better to apply a low pass filter to
trap the spurious harmonics from entering the antenna cable system in the first
place.
I have calculated the full cost of installing 4 separate single outlets (3 @ $5
ea) $ 15
Half cost of the existing filtered FM/TV outlets [( 2 @ $6.95)/2] ( a sunk
cost) ($ 7)
1/3 cost of Fuba 4-way mast multiplexer ($45) ( " " "
) ($ 15)
Cable, 30 metres RG6 @ $1.5/m
$ 45
3 - way splitter (under house)
$ 9
Labour, or my inconvenience (risk of spider bites, grazes, etc while
under house), also lower tall mast and lay second run of cable thru splitter,
cut holes and install 3 wall plates (5 hours minimum)
(X?)
So, a separate cable run is 'costing me' $69,
plus ($22, plus X)
cf a LP (109mhz)Filter $56
dollars
Note that my labour/time in finding out the cause and my options is not counted,
as it applies to either option.
Without the two 'sunk costs', and labour and inconvenience, the filter solution,
@ $56 dollars, is still cheaper, and has also solved the problem for any future
user/owner of the Kenwood. I will be installing it inside the case soon.
Regards,
Tim Bailey
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: [JN] TD15X = crow
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:05:00 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n663
Hi Folks,
A few years back I was learning the art of speaker reconing from an "old
school" person. I remember one day a Urei system showing up for a rebuild. It
consists of a 15" woofer with a coaxial compression driver and a large blue
lense for the compression driver. Since I had never seen one before I asked
what the hell was this nonsense. My mentor stated that it was the standard of
many a recording studio, and that 15" drivers make the best midrange possible.
After laughing under my breath with the thought that this cat needs to listen
to a 85dB@1w 7" poly cone, I forgot about the incident.
Now a few years later I find myself eating a little bit of crow, but it is
rather tasty now. Here is a page I just put up that shows the 15" driver I
designed with what I now know.
www.lambdacoustics.com/library/funstuff/TD15X.html
Nick
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: [JN] TD15X = crow
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:51:16 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n663
Hi Folks,
A few years back I was learning the art of speaker reconing from an "old
school" person. I remember one day a Urei system showing up for a rebuild. It
consists of a 15" woofer with a coaxial compression driver and a large blue
lense for the compression driver. Since I had never seen one before I asked
what the hell was this nonsense. My mentor stated that it was the standard of
many a recording studio, and that 15" drivers make the best midrange possible.
After laughing under my breath with the thought that this cat needs to listen
to a 85dB@1w 7" poly cone, I forgot about the incident.
Now a few years later I find myself eating a little bit of crow, but it is
rather tasty now. Here is a page I just put up that shows the 15" driver I
designed with what I now know.
www.lambdacoustics.com/library/funstuff/TD15X.html
Nick
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] TD15X = crow
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:07:31 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n663
In a message dated 9/15/00 11:59:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
nick@lambdacoustics.com writes:
> www.lambdacoustics.com/library/funstuff/TD15X.html
Two, please!
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] TD15X = crow
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:37:13 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n663
At 06:55 PM 9/15/00 +0000, T. Loesch wrote:
>Hi,
>
>>I remember one day a Urei system showing up for a rebuild. It
>>consists of a 15" woofer with a coaxial compression driver and a large blue
>>lense for the compression driver.
>
>Ahhh, the good old Urei Monitors. I'd like a pair of 813's please. Original
>Altec Alnico Drivers please....
>
>>Here is a page I just put up that shows the 15" driver I designed with what
>>I now know.
>
>This one looks cute. What's damage to my account per pair?
>
>Later T
Hi T,
The current price is $229 each.
The price come October15 is $299 each.
The TD15 woofer will be $329 each if done to the spec I am presently thinking.
No price gouging, just can't sell at subsidized levels anymore.
Best regards
N
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] TD15X = crow
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:55:49 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n663
Hi,
>I remember one day a Urei system showing up for a rebuild. It
>consists of a 15" woofer with a coaxial compression driver and a large blue
>lense for the compression driver.
Ahhh, the good old Urei Monitors. I'd like a pair of 813's please. Original
Altec Alnico Drivers please....
>Here is a page I just put up that shows the 15" driver I designed with what
>I now know.
This one looks cute. What's damage to my account per pair?
Later T
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] TD15X = crow
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:58:02 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n664
At 04:07 PM 9/15/00 -0400, TubeGarden@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 9/15/00 11:59:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
>nick@lambdacoustics.com writes:
>
>> www.lambdacoustics.com/library/funstuff/TD15X.html
>
>
>Two, please!
Hi Al,
Thought you were waiting for the horn loading model?
(won't be long now, last couple parts to arrive next week)
It uses near the same cone, just a few grams lighter.
Nick
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: [JN] TDA1543 chips are gone ...Thanks
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:57:44 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n612
They went fast. Lots of brave digital DIYers out there. - Pat
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: [JN] TDA1549T
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 15:44:01 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n894
1. The TDA1549T sounds much better with more
voltage to the internal op amps.
2. It is possible to blow up the internal op
amps inside the TDA1549T dac chip.
3. TDA1549T is not currently available from
Philips distributors.
4. Does anyone have access to a spare TDA1549T?
--Carter
{TDA1549T is dac in Philips CD753/Marantz CD5000}
=========================================================================
From: Audio1Nut@aol.com
Subject: [JN] TDK 100K potentiometer
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:01:32 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n204
Hi all:
I got this for sale:
Brand-new in box.
Discrete resistive elements for each of 40 positions on this high quality
attenuator. No noise and very precise tracking. 6mm shaft diameter. 54mm high
3 45mm wide 3 51mm deep.
Audio Electronics Supply sell for $359, have mine for only $200
You can check at:
http://www.audioelectronicsupply.com/
=========================================================================
From: "Claus Fonnesbek Nielsen" <cfn_hv@post12.tele.dk>
Subject: [JN] TEAC VRDS10SE
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:17:03 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n639
Hi Joes
This is my first post so be gentle.
I have a TEAC VRDS10SE, is there any of you that have some good mods for it,
I saw that one of the Joes brought a VRDS10 (maybe Guido) to the TF.
I am about to change the Analog filter, I have ordered a Zap Filter from
LcAudio (www.lcaudio.dk) it should be amazing.
I might also try to change the digital filter, the original filter is a NPC
SM5840, I would like to use the HDCD filter (PMD100). Is there any of you
guys
that have experience with such a operation.
Claus Fonnesbek Nielsen
Denmark
=========================================================================
From: "Norman Tracy" <ntracy@galstar.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] TEAC VRDS10SE
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:27:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n640
Hello & welcome Claus,
We have a mod "Re-clocking TEAC VRDS-T1 and TEAC VRDS-7 by Lars-Erik Wedin"
on the ACG web site. See:
http://www.galstar.com/~ntracy/ACG/AandE/articles.htm
happy listening
Norman Tracy
Audio Crafters Guild
5102 E 38 PL
Tulsa OK 74135 USA
918.627.5878 voice
918.481.0970 fax
ntracy@galstar.com e-mail
www.galstar.com/~ntracy/acg URL
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] TEAC VRDS10SE
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:16:13 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n640
Claus
At 22:17 23/08/2000 +0200, Claus Fonnesbek Nielsen wrote:
>Hi Joes
>
>This is my first post so be gentle.
Welcome !
>I have a TEAC VRDS10SE, is there any of you that have some good mods for it,
>I saw that one of the Joes brought a VRDS10 (maybe Guido) to the TF.
I use it as a drive as the build-in DAC wil never be good enough to my ears
I improved the player at various levels, all of them focussing on reducing
the jitter level at the SPDIF output (power supply decoupling, servo, clock
and reclocking, some mechanics).
As a result I am now selling the oscillators that I use.....
I am not yet ready to publish on the mods, have to work out some aspects on
that.
Guido
>I am about to change the Analog filter, I have ordered a Zap Filter from
>LcAudio (www.lcaudio.dk) it should be amazing.
>
>I might also try to change the digital filter, the original filter is a NPC
>SM5840, I would like to use the HDCD filter (PMD100). Is there any of you
>guys
>that have experience with such a operation.
>
>Claus Fonnesbek Nielsen
>Denmark
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Alex Rubli K." <rubli@noc.pue.udlap.mx>
Subject: [JN] techie question
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:00:11 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n057
hi
I wonder if somebody can help me regarding the measurement of plate
disspation.
I am kinda confused, have made a circuit 2 El34 in PP mode, which
supposedly draws ~16 watts PA from each tube, at idle, with a no signal,
if I measure the cathode current it reads 75 mA, the Ht voltage is 430 Volts
each tube has its own cathode resistor.
According to Mr. Ohm, the tube is dissipating 430 x 0.75 = 32 Watts.
which is far above the max rating of EL34 (25 max)
I am preety sure that my asumption is WRONG, can somebody help me ?
thanx
alex rubli
------------==========-------____\|/___-------==========------------
| Alexander Rubli K. Universidad de las Americas,Puebla |
| Rubli@mail.udlap.mx Sta. Catarina Martir |
| rubli@pobox.com Cholula,72820 Puebla |
| vox:(52) (22) 29-2158 FAX:(52) (22) 29-2140 MEXICO |
| URL: http://noc.pue.udlap.mx/eno/Arubli.shtml "" "" |
| ----------------------------------------- - O |
| Honour thy errors as a hidden intention (B. Eno) I |
------------==========_______----/|\----_______==========---- ~.
=========================================================================
From: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
Subject: [JN] techie question
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:15:05 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n057
>I wonder if somebody can help me regarding the measurement of plate
>disspation.
>
>I am kinda confused, have made a circuit 2 El34 in PP mode, which
>supposedly draws ~16 watts PA from each tube, at idle, with a no signal,
>if I measure the cathode current it reads 75 mA, the Ht voltage is 430 Volts
>each tube has its own cathode resistor.
Ok. You say each tube has its own Rk. What is the magnitude of this Rk?
Is it merely for measuring cathode currents, ie is it a 1-10 ohm unit? Or
is it bigger, like 3-500 ohms, for generating the bias?
Put another way, is the amp fixed bias, or cathode biased?
>According to Mr. Ohm, the tube is dissipating 430 x 0.75 = 32 Watts.
This is perfectly correct... IF the tube has 430V from cathode to plate,
and is pulling 75 mA.
>which is far above the max rating of EL34 (25 max)
Yes again. Quick test.. does the amp throw off a LOT of heat? Do the
plates of the EL's get colorful at all?
>I am preety sure that my asumption is WRONG, can somebody help me ?
Alex, the only thing I can think of at this point is that the amp is
cathode biased, and there's some big voltage across the cathode resistor.
This must be subtracted from the B+ measurement.
Even if that WERE the case, I don't see the Rk as dropping 70 V or so (I
could be wrong) so I have a feeling that IF the amp is cathode biased you
need to INCREASE that (those) Rk's. This will drop more volts across the
Rk, as well as cut down current pulled through the tube, thereby limiting
dissapation.
If the amp is "adjustable-fixed bias" simply apply a more negative voltage
to the grids.
Both of these adjustments will push the amp more towards AB operation and
away from A. They will also insure that you get some sort of useful life
out of those tubes!
If the EL34's are of good quality and are TRIODE connected you can
dissapate 30W. If you want to dissapate more than that, keep 'em cool with
forced air.
You could also swap in another tube type, like KT88, or my personal fave,
the KT90. Both types can handle much higher plate dissapations.
Hope this has helped.
ken
Ken Gilbert
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Garage/5701
- ------------------------------------------------
Tube Guitar Amplifier Repair/Design Technician
The Guitarist's Choice Inc. http://www.tgcguitar.com
=========================================================================
From: "Alex Rubli K." <rubli@noc.pue.udlap.mx>
Subject: [JN] re:techie question
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:17:36 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n058
Hi
I am glad so many responded to my query, maybe my data was not enough,
here is my scenario:
the amp is working OK, it has been working for months in my office 8
hours a day), no
problem, not too much heat, no red spots etc.
I wanted to make a modification to the circuit in order to convert it to
a se ended amp, because I seldom need more tha 8 watts over here i found
this article in Glass audio 4/94 page 38,
where the author propose to convert one tube to a constant current
generator to prevent the output transformer from being saturated by the
dc flux, and the other for SE operation.
So I did, but the output power dropped to 2 watts, so the thing to do is
to modificate the bias, and the warning is obviously not to exceed the
tube disspation , and as my knowledge of this amp is that it is running
very conservative (16 watts PDper tube) there is my question.
wanted to measure the actual (PP config) dissipation value of the valves,
(the amp generates 20 wats @ 8 ohm) but my measurement told me 32 (per
valve), which I don't think it's real.
The circuit is very simple, cathode bias, with a 470 Ohm cathode resistor
(shunted with a 47uF cap) for each tube , runing at 435 v HT, pentode
configration with a 1 k at grid 2 to HT.
with no signal, and an 8 ohm resistor load at the output, I read 35.25 VDC
(=75 mA) at one cathode resistor. Even if I subtratct this voltage from
HT (=400 VDC) the disspation power is 30 watts (per tube), even if I
subtratct the grid 2 disspation (5 watts at most) I am (supposedly)
running the tube too hot, (near max p.d.)
I received some replies that my measurements were all right, but the
number I got (32 watts) was for both tubes, so each is 16. This answer
would make me sleep better, because I am breaking my head with such a
simple thing .
cheers
alex rubli
------------==========-------____\|/___-------==========------------
| Alexander Rubli K. Universidad de las Americas,Puebla |
| Rubli@mail.udlap.mx Sta. Catarina Martir |
| rubli@pobox.com Cholula,72820 Puebla |
| vox:(52) (22) 29-2158 FAX:(52) (22) 29-2140 MEXICO |
| URL: http://noc.pue.udlap.mx/eno/Arubli.shtml "" "" |
| ----------------------------------------- - O |
| Honour thy errors as a hidden intention (B. Eno) I |
------------==========_______----/|\----_______==========---- ~.
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] techie question
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:24:42 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n060
>hi
>
>I wonder if somebody can help me regarding the measurement of plate
>disspation.
>
>I am kinda confused, have made a circuit 2 El34 in PP mode, which
>supposedly draws ~16 watts PA from each tube, at idle, with a no signal,
>if I measure the cathode current it reads 75 mA, the Ht voltage is 430 Volts
>each tube has its own cathode resistor.
>
>According to Mr. Ohm, the tube is dissipating 430 x 0.75 = 32 Watts.
you should subtract the voltage across the cathode resistors, I expect that
is about 30 V at this bias, so 30 watt is left for the EL34
>which is far above the max rating of EL34 (25 max)
Yup, still too much!
>I am preety sure that my asumption is WRONG, can somebody help me ?
I do not see what is wrong, assumed you measured right
Increase the cathode resistor by 20 to 30 %, I expect that will help
getting close to 25 watt
Succes
Guido
>thanx
>
>alex rubli
>
> ------------==========-------____\|/___-------==========------------
>| Alexander Rubli K. Universidad de las Americas,Puebla |
>| Rubli@mail.udlap.mx Sta. Catarina Martir |
>| rubli@pobox.com Cholula,72820 Puebla |
>| vox:(52) (22) 29-2158 FAX:(52) (22) 29-2140 MEXICO |
>| URL: http://noc.pue.udlap.mx/eno/Arubli.shtml "" "" |
>| ----------------------------------------- - O |
>| Honour thy errors as a hidden intention (B. Eno) I |
> ------------==========_______----/|\----_______==========---- ~.
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Penury <wmeckle@qwest.net>
Subject: [JN] Technics SH-AC500D
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:33:19 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n920
Hi Gang:
Sometime ago Kal Rubinson recommended and said he had a Technics
SH-AC500D Digital Surround Processor. I have some hook up problems
with mine (mating it to a Sumo DeliliahII electronic crossover).
I tried E-Mailing him at his <rubinsnk@is2.nyu.edu> address, but it
bounced.
Does anyone know Kal's current E-mail address ? Or could offer me
advice regarding the Technics Processor ?
-=Bill Eckle=-
Vanity Web pages at:
http://www.wmeckle.com
=========================================================================
From: Power.Ralph@epamail.epa.gov
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SH-AC500D
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:40:13 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n920
Hi Bill,
I have had a SH-AC500D for about eight months now and love mine. I modded
the caps inside for some sonic improvement I think. The surround sound
was a revelation to me versus stereo. Sometimes I use it to enhance
standard stereo CDs to good effect. I helps out some of them quite a bit.
I think it depends on how much out-of-phase info was originally recorded.
Of course DVDs with DTS 5.1 surround are simply amazing.
Maybe I can help you. What do you need to know ?
Ralph Power
Computer Sciences Corp.
USEPA, Athens, GA
(706) 355-8410
=========================================================================
From: "Cameron Brook" <cambrook@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 00:17:17 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n605
If the base that Norman has is the same as the one in the link he mentioned
it is the so-called "Obsidian" base. A friend of mine has one, and it is an
impressive looking unit. I have a SP-10 in a cardboard box, - I haven't got
around to putting it in commission yet! I'm actually thinking of a granite
base (if the price is not too ridiculous) with some similar treatment to the
factory "obsidian" base that Norman describes.
A guy in Sydney (Bon Clarke) has put some photos on the web of a base for
his SP-10 that he made from Corian with a lead sandwich. Here are some of
the details he kindly sent me.
Cheers,
Cameron
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=968699&a=7101274
The plinth is four horizontal layers (including the top-plate) of grey
speckled Corian glued together with a vertical glued edge layer of
Black speckled Corian. The grey is a good colour because it does not show
dust much. The area under the pick-up arm is filled with glued off-cut
Corian blocks leaving room for the arm-base and cables. I use a Rega RB300
and since the platter is quite high, the arm board is another Corian
off-cut bolted to the top plate with four hardened steel bolts. The arm
mounting hole is drilled through the arm board and top plate, total 26 mm
thick. This brings it to perfect height for an Audio Technica OC5 MC but a
Sumiko Blue Point Special needs a spacer under the arm.
The base plate is a slightly smaller sheet of the black Corian with 45
degree bevelled edge, with two sheets of lead bonded on top. Since Corian
comes in 13mm thick sheets, the four top layers total 52 mm thickness which
coincidentally is exactly the depth of the SP-10 below the top plate
surface. This means that the TT chassis will sit flush on top of the
lead+Corian base-plate instead of hanging from the top plate. The base
plate + lead weighs 22kg alone.
To Take advantage of this, I bolted the base plate + lead through the
plinth to the TT with four 80mm long stainless steel 5mm bolts and one 85mm
long stainless steel 5mm bolt (the front left bolt needs to be slightly
longer because the mounting hole is inset). The result is the turntable+
arm rigidly coupled to extremely massive Corian+lead damped structure.
The grey Corian side walls are 2mm thick and the black Corian layer 13mm
for a total of 33mm.
The base plate + lead is 20mm thick so the total height of the plinth
without the rubber feet is 72mm.
Dimensions:
Grey Corian top-plate 50 x 38 cm
Total dimensions 52.6 x 40.6 x 5.2cm (including 52mm deep x 13mm thick
black Corian sides, back & front)
Black Corian base-plate 50 x 38 cm (bevel edge)
=========================================================================
From: "Norman Tracy" <ntracy@galstar.com>
Subject: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:31:44 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n603
Hello all,
In addition to my love of music and hi-fi gear I am a certifiable gearhead.
If it has wheels and can be made to go fast its for me. One aspect of motor
sport I questioned is vintage sports car racing. While I can understand the
need for speed when I see vintage, and in many cases irreplaceable, cars
being hurled around a course wheel to wheel I ask myself "why would anyone
take them in harms way?" Well last weekend I learned the audio equivalent of
risking a Porsche 550 Spyder in wheel to wheel action which is of course
shipping hi-fi gear via UPS.
I will try for the edited version of the story starting at the beginning. Ah
to heck with the edited version, get a cup of coffee this is going to take
awhile!
Despite being a specialist in digital audio I maintain a collection of ~500
LPs. A year or two ago I began to lust after one of the Japanese high end
turntables which showcased each manufacturer's line in the 1980s. Having
grown up in that golden age of the "High-End" movement I was thoroughly
indoctrinated with the orthodoxy that one must have a suspended chassis belt
drive turntable made in Europe, UK, or USA. My current analog front end
features a SOTA Star Sapphire. A great machine with its jeweled sapphire
thrust bearing and a suspension system second to none. However like most
tables from small companies the build quality is at best good to OK. Precise
where it has to be but in other area one looks and says "if I found a good
machinist I could do that". By contrast looking at the best tables of the
'80s from Denon, Lux, Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer, Technics, JVC, Kenwood, etc.,
we see a whole other level of the manufacturing arts. The die casting molds
on these babies alone represent a 5 or 6 figure investment. Then the metal
finishing and construction methods honed to perfection on 1,000,000s of
receivers and TV sets are much in evidence in these company flagship items.
Could not afford a Micro-Seki, then or now, so I considered what to do. Some
of the Luxmans are Most Tasty, alas they are rare as hens teeth and their
owners will not part with them. [(I do know of one I am working on but it
will be a long process to wear him down! :-)] Then I began to notice several
of the European ultra-fi systems as seen in la nouvelle Revue Du Son
featured the Technics SP10MKII as one of the LP spinners. These I had seen
both in my youth and occasionally on the used market. Back then all visits
to hi-fi shops included checking the smoothness of a few tuner dial
movements and then watching the big Technics direct drive come up to 33 1/3
RPM in 1/4 revolution. More recently it has been pointed out one weakness of
the suspended chassis belt drive turntable is that any movement between the
platter & subchassis assembly and the drive motor has to equal a speed
variation. We see some designs resorting to mounting the motor on the
subchassis to lock it in place with the platter. Others such as some VPIs
and Micro-Seki do away with the subchassis and mount the platter assembly
and drive motor on high mass platforms. Of course direct drive also
addresses this by making the platter and motor one and the same.
Additionally one gets a motor specifically designed for LP spinning. On the
down side back in the day we accused the Japanese direct drives of "cogging"
as their pole pieces and magnets turned. On the up side the direct drive
Goldmund remains one of the finest sounding record players I have ever
heard. So I had talked myself into trying one, now to find one worth owning.
For a time I cruised the Japanese used hi-fi web sites toying with the idea
of importing one. Found one on Ebay and bid but it never got to the reserve
price. Then on my beloved Joe-net Anna announced she was helping a
audiophiles' widow sell her husband's Technics SP10MKII. Making the deal too
good to pass up was that this was the SP1000 version with special wood +
artificial marble base and EPA-100 titanium tone arm. A Dynavector cartridge
and VPI base were also included so all together it was way too many toys all
at once to pass up.
Poor Anna was acting as go between while her company had her working 6 and 7
days a week but she got my money to the seller and then faced packing it all
up. Alas none of the original packing materials or boxes exist and with the
VPI base included we are talking over 100 lbs. of stuff. With the help of
some fellow audiophiles it was all disassembled and carefully packed in a
big HP printer box and dispatched for the 1000+ mile trip from the Eastern
to Midwestern USA. Now I knew how the vintage sports car owner feels waiting
for his 550 to come around the corner of the race. Will that driver get it
back to me in one piece?
I felt like a kid waiting for Christmas while the package was in transit.
Last Friday it arrived and I watched as the UPS driver carefully (being
careful of his back, not the package) lifted it off his truck and rolled the
package up to the front door. My heart sank as I saw the box was torn and
sticking out the opening was the unmistakable sight of the business end of a
EPA-100 tone arm! The SME style headshell connector and a couple of inches
of the arm were flopping in the wind. :-0 The HP printer box had hand grip
holes and someone along the way had torn one open allowing the arm to be
exposed. Words with the driver went nowhere as he lied to me pretending his
electronic clipboard had no place to even note the shipping damage. "Take it
up with the sender" was his lame suggestion. I felt like the owner of a
Spider 550 pulling into the pits trailing clouds of white smoke.
Getting the package inside I opened it to see if we had any other damage.
First out was the EPA-100. It was removed from the table for packing and had
been safe on one side of the package until the box split. No big dents or
new bends were evident but holding the base and gently twisting the arm for
a quick bearing test showed a sickening amount of wobble. DAMN the bearings
have got to be toasted! Setting it aside I dug deeper and the news was good.
The irreplaceable oversized dust cover was in one piece. They had removed
the platter to protect the motor & bearings and it was good. Next out was
the motor and base. Oh yeah, baby. Just look at that build quality. The
SP1000 base was next, it showed its years well and had maybe one or two new
nicks from transit but overall looked great. The VPI base took a hit and one
side was off but nothing wood glue, clamps, and shop time won't put right.
Along the way a couple of platter mats, tonearm cable, remote soft touch
START-STOP button, big-o honking stainless steel record clamp, and a big
external power supply showed up. After lugging it all to the work room I
made another pass through the box and packing. The Dynavector DX-20B2
surfaced. It was packed in a little box with Styrofoam peanuts and bubble
wrap. Carefully unwrapping and DAMN, OH NO the stylus guard has flipped up
in transit. Another causality of UPS? Well maybe, maybe not as I see the
cantilever is still straight and true with stylus in place.
First I installed the platter and connected the motor to its power supply.
The power supply alone weighs more than my DVD player! :-) Soon as its
plugged in and I hit the soft touch START-STOP button the platter leaps up
to speed. The 33 1/3, 45, and 78 speeds all work. I clean all the parts up
and reassemble the beast. And beast it is as the base measures 18 x 22
inches. Top half is a sculpted polished black synthetic marble and the
bottom multi-plywood with rosewood finish. Between the layers is a rubber
sheet of vibration damping material. The motor assembly drops in and is held
by 5 screws. During its cleaning I removed the platter and discovered a
'oil' hole by the spindle. After a couple of drops of light machine oil the
platter will spin and spin and spin after you give it a twist showing the
overbuilt bearings are good as new. All the little details speak of the
build quality I referred to above, even the three screws which hold the
platter on the motor are custom pieces with large flat heads to recess in
the platter and small fine threads to mate with the motor. The tone arm
mount is a die cast metal block with what looks like a teak wood plate
screwed in from the bottom. The wood is drilled for the arm mount. In the
case of the EPA-100 the mount is the type which allows vertical tracking
angle to be adjusted while the record plays using a super smooth heavily
damped mechanism.
So my goal of having a dreadnought class Japanese turntable having been met
I turn to the EPA-100 tonearm. I note the upper gimbal of the jeweled
horizontal bearings is out of its place and resting on the casting. It snaps
back into place and I adjust the bearing load screws. However the alarming
wobble remains. Careful inspection reveals the play is not the bearings but
rather a joint where the arm's vertical mounting shaft secures to the
casting which forms the fixed part of the bearing assembly. And the mounting
shaft is held on with set-screws. Disassembly reveals the internal wiring,
DIN connector on the bottom and an intact inner boss onto which the
set-screws mate. The first reassemble fails when the set-screws loosen while
mounting the arm. A second attempt with the lifter dashpot removed for
better access and Loctite on the screw threads yields up a solid arm
structure. Could it be OK after all? A trial assembly on the table is bad
news. Now one can see the 'S' shaped arm tube is twisted down so the
cartridge is not even close to level when viewed from the front azimuth
direction. Back off the table another close inspection reveals the titanium
arm tube is held in the bearing casting at its pivot point with more set
screws. One can be loosened but the other is inaccessible unless the entire
pivot assembly were disassembled. With one set screw loose I can twist the
arm tube back into alignment. With the arm back on the table and cartridge
in place I play more with the three bearing play adjust screws. These are
coaxial with the bearing shafts and are to set the bearing play. Take my
best guess on these, set the VTF, rough in the cartridge height and we are
ready to play an LP.
A $3 pawn shop The Mamas & The Papas disk "Cass * John * Michelle * Dennie"
is first up as its expendable in case the stylus is shattered. Not bad. Sit
down and enjoy it then cue up a mono Mercury light jazz disk Ernestine
Anderson "Moanin' 'Moanin' 'Moanin'". The Dynavector DX-20B2 and EPA-100
have survived at least in that they will track and play. Then I notice the
DX-20 stylus is being deflected an alarming amount as it pulls the tonearm
along. More tweaking of the bearing play adjust screws. Back 'em off a bit
more and at the zero VTF condition the arm begins to 'float' as they do when
the bearing friction is very low. I play the Mamas & Papas disk again.
Stylus is centered. OH WOW! Now this is more like it. Next tweak in the VTA
and its "Houston, we have the highs back". I tend to think of '60s pop disks
as having the grossest of stereo effects with all instruments panned hard
left or right as in early Beatles disks. I stand corrected as usual such
broad generalizations are bogus. On 'I Saw Her Again' the four Mamas & Papas
are spread in a graceful arc across the front of my room. Good center fill
and images to the left of the left speaker and right of the right speaker.
And more importantly the tone is just luscious.
Maybe vintage sports car racers do it for both the speed and the
satisfaction that comes from fixing their broken steeds should harm find
them?
Needless to say the rest of the weekend whenever I could steal a few minutes
away from the family I was spinning disks. What fun. Of course I did
rediscover the rituals of record and stylus dusting. Chasing out HUMMMMM.
And that I have lost my old ability to 'listen around' the clicks and pops
and groove noise. But its fun and this is music I do not have on digital
formats so who cares. At the end of the weekend I put the new baby up out
of harms way (my three sons aged 6 through 19 and their friends) until I
build the dedicated turntable stand for the new SP-10 and old reliable SOTA.
Then there is testing with my Luster GST-801 stainless steel pivoted arm and
McIntire linear tracking air bearing arms. So this journey has just begun.
Let me know if you want to hear of future findings or if this is quite
enough.
And a special thanks to Valerie 'Anna Logg' Kurlychek for making all this
fun possible.
Happy Listening
Norman Tracy
Audio Crafters Guild
5102 E 38 PL
Tulsa OK 74135 USA
918.627.5878 voice
918.481.0970 fax
ntracy@galstar.com e-mail
www.galstar.com/~ntracy/acg URL
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:03:18 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n604
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:06:37 +0100, "Paul@13E1.com"
<triode@bow-tie.org.uk> wrote:
> I am fortunate; next weekend I
>shall be at Silverstone to enjoy the satisfying sound of the 1959 Le
>Mans-winning Aston Martin getting a severe larrupping (as it did at the
>festival at Goodwood) in the capable hands of Peter Hardman.
Just don't let S. Moss anywhere near it. Didn't he total a nice '59
Aston last year at a vintage race?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:04:35 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n604
Norman,
>shipping hi-fi gear via UPS.
"What wonderfull new world has souls as brave in it?"
>Some of the Luxmans are Most Tasty, alas they are rare as hens teeth
Not in the UK.... I know of at least two units with Vacuum holddown at a
local 2nd hand Hifi Shop and two more at a place up north.... Going rate
from 250 to 450 US Dollar....
Of course, I'm only telling you this to irk you..... ;-)
Good to hear you eventually got the whole rig going allright. Seems UPS did
(as usual) their level best to screw up a perfectly easy job. At least they
didn't loose the parcel....
As for the SP-10, it's something else, inntit?
Ciao T
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Paul@13E1.com" <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:06:37 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n604
Dear all;
At the risk of starting the wrong kind of thread, I too am a car nut.
>
> In addition to my love of music and hi-fi gear I am a certifiable
gearhead.
> If it has wheels and can be made to go fast its for me. One aspect of
motor
> sport I questioned is vintage sports car racing. While I can understand
the
> need for speed when I see vintage, and in many cases irreplaceable, cars
> being hurled around a course wheel to wheel I ask myself "why would anyone
> take them in harms way?"
The reason is that they are real sportsmen. I am fortunate; next weekend I
shall be at Silverstone to enjoy the satisfying sound of the 1959 Le
Mans-winning Aston Martin getting a severe larrupping (as it did at the
festival at Goodwood) in the capable hands of Peter Hardman. Likewise the
same owner's Ferrari 330LMB (one of four made) and many other priceless
examples. I feel privileged to be able to see this; often they lap as fast
or faster than they did in their heyday.
On a more humble note, I shall be at Goodwood for the Club track day in
August, thrashing my ancient Lancia!
regards,
Paul Leclercq
=========================================================================
From: Owen Young <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:13:15 +1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n604
> ...And beast it is as the base measures 18 x 22
> inches. Top half is a sculpted polished black synthetic marble and the
> bottom multi-plywood with rosewood finish. Between the layers is a rubber
> sheet of vibration damping material. The motor assembly drops in and is held
> by 5 screws. (snip)
Hi Norman
A real saga but with a nice ending! Green with envy here...
Would you describe the TT Base in a little more detail? Would this be
the oft-mentioned <Obsidian> base that SP10s are sometimes fitted with?
(Thanks to Cameron Brook, I now have an SP10mkII, but no base built
yet.)
Is the base solid material right thru, with the necessary cutouts only?
What are the relative thicknesses of said material layers?
Questions, questions....I'm sorry.
TIA
Owen
(UPS got an amplifier kit from the UK to down here in NZ for me once, in
4 days to my door, in 1 piece! I was well pleased with them at the
time.)
=========================================================================
From: "Norman Tracy" <ntracy@galstar.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 01:57:45 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n605
Owen Young asked:
> A real saga but with a nice ending! Green with envy here...
>
> Would you describe the TT Base in a little more detail? Would this be
> the oft-mentioned <Obsidian> base that SP10s are sometimes fitted with?
Much as I wish it were, I do not think so. Obsidian is a mineral, correct?
The black material my base is made of is I believe some kind of dense
polymer, albeit quite a classy one. I say this because where the glossy
polished black surface has been scratched ( ;-( ) the scratches & nicks show
up white "distressed plastic" color. Were it a real stone product I would
expect scratches to be black.
> (Thanks to Cameron Brook, I now have an SP10mkII, but no base built
> yet.)
>
> Is the base solid material right through, with the necessary cutouts only?
> What are the relative thicknesses of said material layers?
>
> Questions, questions....I'm sorry.
>
> TIA
You are welcome. A fellow Joe-netter sent the following URL which has a
description and picture of a SP10 in a base sculpted just like mine. In this
picture you can see the upper view but no detail of the base's structure is
visible.
http://www.homestead.com/sp10mk11/TechnicsSP10MK11.html
As I said the overall dimension is about 22 x 18 inches. The motor assembly
sits in one hole and the arm mount casting another. The holes are cutout
just large enough to fit the two pieces. These holes go through all layers.
The sculpted black upper layer is cutout in an "L" shape to accommodate both
motor assembly and arm mount casting. The bottom of this cutout is covered
with a rubber damping sheet on which the motor and arm mount rest. The
rubber sheet is on the plywood lower layer. It is a quality thin ply like
what we call Baltic Birch or apple ply. Visible edges are veneered with a
rosewood tint wood. From the outside the layers thickness are: wood 2
cm(0.8"), rubber sheet 5 mm (0.15"), and mystery black stuff 4 cm (1.6").
The five screws securing the motor assembly go through the plywood. The arm
mount casting has 4 recessed bolt holes in its corners. Socket head bolts go
through these into two pieces of drilled and threaded angle steel. The
angles 'float' between the plywood and top plate such that when tightened
they draw up against the black top layer. Obviously the entire design is
intended to dissipate vibrations into heat with the heavy and damped
materials used in contrast to those which seek to couple the platter and arm
together in a simple and stiff structure.
happy listening
Norman Tracy
Audio Crafters Guild
5102 E 38 PL
Tulsa OK 74135 USA
918.627.5878 voice
918.481.0970 fax
ntracy@galstar.com e-mail
www.galstar.com/~ntracy/acg URL
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 03:14:56 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n605
On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:13:15 +1200, Owen Young <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
wrote:
>(UPS got an amplifier kit from the UK to down here in NZ for me once, in
>4 days to my door, in 1 piece! I was well pleased with them at the
>time.)
In one piece? You mean they not only delivered the package in four
days, but also assembled the kit in the process? Amazing! Kinda
takes the fun out of ordering a kit, though.
Maybe I should have UPS deliver that Caterham Seven...
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Neil Brown <neilb@telalink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 08:51:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n605
on 7/16/00 4:34 AM, Owen Young at oyoung@clear.net.nz wrote:
>
> David Barnett wrote:
>
>> In one piece? You mean they not only delivered the package in four
>> days, but also assembled the kit in the process? Amazing!
>
> Yessir!
> And nary a ruffle on his crisp brown shirt as I recall.
> Owen
>
Gotta be impressed with that. Last time I had something delivered to me in
NZ It sat in customs for several weeks before somebody woke up!
Fedex on the other hand delivered my notebook and even got it through
customs without delay!
Nothing to do with it but is that young spin bowler from hamilton still
playing on the national team?
Neil
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 09:09:41 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n605
Did you guys know that People magazine chose a UPS driver from Trenton (or
was it Camden?) as one of their "Most Eligible Bachelors" this year?
<be still my heart . . .>
A
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 10:24:39 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n605
On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 09:09:41 -0400 (EDT), AnnaLogg@aol.com wrote:
>...from Trenton (or
>was it Camden?)...
Hmm, an obscure Thornton Wilder reference?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Tim Reese <tgrmail@nmr.MGH.harvard.EDU>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:52:41 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n605
>>Obsidian is a mineral, correct?
>Yes a type of volcanic rock I believe.
AKA volcanic glass, typically black and sometimes chocolate brown;
can have contrasting inclusions (ie snowflake obsidian). Flash-
cooled magma, so glassy rather than grainy.
regards tr
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.nmr.MGH.harvard.edu/~reese MRI, tube audio, reptiles
Tim Reese, MGH NMR Center reese@nmr.MGH.harvard.edu
=========================================================================
From: Owen Young <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [JN] Technics SP10MKII dodges UPS bullets
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:34:06 +1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n605
David Barnett wrote:
> In one piece? You mean they not only delivered the package in four
> days, but also assembled the kit in the process? Amazing!
Yessir!
And nary a ruffle on his crisp brown shirt as I recall.
Owen
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] Technics SP-10 template
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:51:17 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n479
Hey joes
anyone got/know where to find a cutout template for a Technics SP-10 turntable?
David Crittle
____________________________
Visit the Retrovox Where?house at
http://www.users.bigpond.com/retrovox
____________________________
Some pics at
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=149682
____________________________
If you never did, you should. These things are fun, and fun is good.
(Dr Seuess)
=========================================================================
From: "Bruce Nilson" <bnilson@FCB.COM>
Subject: [JN] Teflon dielectric constants
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:48:00 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n294
- --------------909DE96CC6CCC91162D2BB69
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kurt Steffensen wrote:
No dielectric is better than Teflon.
Some Teflon dielectric constants:
Plain Teflon FEP or TFE - 2.15
TFE cellular (foamed) - 1.4
FEP cellular (foamed) - 1.5
Polyethylene cellular (a non teflon) - 1.5
Anybody know where I can buy solid core wire with any of these cellular
dielectrics?
Thanks
Bruce Nilson
- --------------909DE96CC6CCC91162D2BB69
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
Kurt Steffensen wrote:
<BR>
<BR>
<P><I>No dielectric is better than Teflon.</I>
<BR>
<BR>
<P>Some Teflon dielectric constants:
<P>Plain Teflon FEP or TFE - 2.15
<P>TFE cellular (foamed) - 1.4
<P>FEP cellular (foamed) - 1.5
<BR>
<BR>
<P>Polyethylene cellular (a non teflon) - 1.5
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<P>Anybody know where I can buy solid core wire with any of these cellular
dielectrics?
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<P>Thanks
<BR>Bruce Nilson</HTML>
- --------------909DE96CC6CCC91162D2BB69--
=========================================================================
From: Tim Reese <tgrmail@nmr.MGH.harvard.EDU>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teflon dielectric constants
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:59:02 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n294
>Anybody know where I can buy solid core wire with any of these cellular
>dielectrics?
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks
>Bruce Nilson
Coax often has a foamed core - strip off the sheath and braid leaving
the foamed core and center conductor. An example is the Satellite
coax used by Thorsten and described on the TNT site, but it's 18 ga.
hth tr
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Reese, MGH NMR Center reese@nmr.MGH.harvard.edu
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teflon dielectric constants
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 16:07:14 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n297
EvaGuido wrote:
> Why restrict to the static value of epsilon ?
>
> Guido
>
=========================
Hi Guido:
Would you expand pls.
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teflon dielectric constants
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 23:04:59 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n297
Why restrict to the static value of epsilon ?
Guido
At 13:48 05/10/99 -0400, Bruce Nilson wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt>Kurt Steffensen wrote:
<italic>No dielectric is better than Teflon.</italic>
Some Teflon dielectric constants:
Plain Teflon FEP or TFE - 2.15
TFE cellular (foamed) - 1.4
FEP cellular (foamed) - 1.5
Polyethylene cellular (a non teflon) - 1.5
Anybody know where I can buy solid core wire with any of these cellular
dielectrics?
Thanks
Bruce Nilson
</excerpt>
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teflon dielectric constants
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 19:00:51 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n297
Very often the epsilon depends on the applied voltage. A well known example
are ceramic capacitors. The capacitance changes once the applied voltage
changes. Together with a certain source impedance, phase modulation is the
result.
The same mechanism holds for chokes or coils. Mu depends on the flux, thus
changes with current. Air is a good exception, for both.
Enough expansion ?
regards,
=
Guido
>> Why restrict to the static value of epsilon ?
>>
>> Guido
>
> Hi Guido:
> Would you expand pls.
>
> Bill - PEARL, Inc.
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Eric Kingsbury <ekingsbu@hawaii.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teflon shielded cable source?
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:40:02 -1000 (HST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n827
This guy Jon Risch uses Belden 89259, which seems to fill your
requirement, and swears by it. Since it must be bought by the roll (as
far as I know), you'll see offers of partial rolls, and partnership on
rolls, in the cable asylum over at AA. There's links to his site over
there as well, where he talks about the stuff.
Poinz
On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Joe Roberts wrote:
> Anybody know a source for teflon dielectric, shielded, stranded center
> conductor cable (20 -22 ga or so center conductor)?
>
> I need a roll of this stuff pronto.
>
> Been looking with no success. Any suggestions appreciated.
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Joe Lam" <joelam@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teflon shielded cable source?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:38:03 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n827
Joe,
You didn't state the impedance that you need for the co-ax.
For 50ohm:
Belden 89907 it's a RG-58A/U, Teflon insulation, 20AWG (19x32) core
Alpha 9871F-X similar spec as above, Digikey # A311-X-ND
or take a look at www.starkelectronic.com/czp47a.htm
cz# 2720.
good luck.
Joe
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Roberts" <jroberts@io.com>
To: <sound@io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:11 PM
Subject: [JN] Teflon shielded cable source?
> Anybody know a source for teflon dielectric, shielded, stranded center
> conductor cable (20 -22 ga or so center conductor)?
>
> I need a roll of this stuff pronto.
>
> Been looking with no success. Any suggestions appreciated.
>
>
> Joe
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com>
Subject: [JN] Teflon shielded cable source?
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:11:49 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n827
Anybody know a source for teflon dielectric, shielded, stranded center
conductor cable (20 -22 ga or so center conductor)?
I need a roll of this stuff pronto.
Been looking with no success. Any suggestions appreciated.
Joe
=========================================================================
From: "Gary Bronner" <gbron@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teflon shielded cable source?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:34:03 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n827
Joe,
Try Belden 89259. Plenumcoax cable, teflon insulated, center conductor
stranded copper 7x30, 22 equiv. Available from Allied, Newark, Mouser, etc
for about $150 for a 100ft roll. Its a very nice type of RG59U.
- ---Gary
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Roberts" <jroberts@io.com>
To: <sound@io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:11 PM
Subject: [JN] Teflon shielded cable source?
> Anybody know a source for teflon dielectric, shielded, stranded center
> conductor cable (20 -22 ga or so center conductor)?
>
> I need a roll of this stuff pronto.
>
> Been looking with no success. Any suggestions appreciated.
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teflon shielded cable source?
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 23:25:03 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n827
Joe,
And if you don't need a full 100ft and have some left over, I'd like to
buy what you have left.
Steve
Joe Roberts wrote:
> Anybody know a source for teflon dielectric, shielded, stranded center
> conductor cable (20 -22 ga or so center conductor)?
>
> I need a roll of this stuff pronto.
>
> Been looking with no success. Any suggestions appreciated.
>
> Joe
=========================================================================
From: Chris and Susan Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: [JN] Tek 422 manual??
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:08:33 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n558
Hi again.
I took a little closer look at the 422, and it seems to be in good
physical condition. Stan Griffiths' book told me the basics. 15MHz,
AC/DC if it has the DC module (mine does not), and overall a very useful
scope.
I pulled the power supply apart and nothing looks burnt or smoked.
Actually, everything really looks nice. I have a probe and the stock
power cord to go with it, just no manual. Anyone have a copy???? I
don't know where to start troubleshooting without one.
Thanks!
Chris
=========================================================================
From: Dan Kerl <dlkerl@ro.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek 422 manual??
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:22:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n558
Chris and Susan Beck wrote:
> I have a probe and the stock power cord to go with it, just no manual.
> Anyone have a copy???? I don't know where to start troubleshooting
> without one.
For Tektronix stuff, contact Deane Kidd at (503) 625-7363 [after 9:00
AM Pacific Time]
- --
Dan Kerl
dlkerl@ro.com
=========================================================================
From: Robert C Chambers <rchamber@norwich.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek 422 manual??
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:53:44 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n558
Hi Chris-
Do a (Tektronix 422) search on eBay. There are a couple of manuals up
now.
Regards,
Robert
=========================================================================
From: Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de>
Subject: [JN] Tek 466 scope info?
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:05:49 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n784
Hi Joes,
a friend of mine has a Tek 466 storage oscilloscope. Basically it works,
but shows weird artefacts on the screen when something is switched
(probably bad contacts?) and the two Volt/Div settings do not work (we
think this is a resistive voltage divider and should be easy to fix
except if the switch is broken.
At the moment he is not sure if this unit is tubed and i didn't look at
it yet.
Anyway, we are looking for a schematic or service manual or similar
information about this unit. Since i know there are some Tek scope fans
and measuring gear fanatics (all in a positive sense!) here on the list
i thought i'd ask you.
Anyone have a schematic for this Tek 466 storage oscilloscope?
Contact me privately if you think this is O.T. .
Thanks in Advance!
Timo
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. EE Student University of Bremen, Germany
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: [JN] Tek 535B
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n439
Hi, everyone.
Tonight I stopped by a fellow co-worker's home and took a look at a Tek
535B scope. This gem had the Type CA plugin on the mainframe, plus the
scope cart with a Type 53/54D plugin and a second, homebrew plugin (the
scope was formerly used at Eaton Corp. All manuals, probes, leads,
power cords appear to be there.
Condition is good. A little dirty and the cart isn't too shiny anymore,
but looks like it would clean up well. The scope works (tested only
with no probes) and gives 2 nice bright traces, if a little tilted on
the display. The scope even has the camera adaptor (but no camera) as
it was used to record circuit breaker cycles. It is 1965 vintage.
I paged through the manual, looking at the circuits and operating
instructions. I looked over the parts list and quit counting when I hit
60 on the tube list. Wholly cow, Batman. When it's running, the BIG
fan blows out a nice amount of warm air. Good for those winter nights
in the shop.
My question is first, what are these plug-ins? Are they audio useful?
Second, what are the problem areas of this scope? I think I can handle
the calibration adjustments OK. It fits in with the "good vintage" Teks
per the VTV issue #6 article on scopes. I already have a 40MHz Hitachi
scope, but I'd hate to see this scope remain unused collecting dust.
Thanks!
Chris
=========================================================================
From: Ross J Lahlum <rlahlum@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek 535B
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:55:21 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n439
Chris,
Go for it! The CA is an excellent plug-in for audio work. The 53/54D is
essentially an earlier version.
I used to work on these years ago. The manuals are very good; to get the
scope up to spec is not that hard, and the manual tells you everything
you need to do. The power supply may need a new pass tube or two, and
you may need to replace a tube in the sweep amp, but these scopes were
built to last, so you may not have to do anything but adjustments.
- -Ross
On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0600 Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com> writes:
> Hi, everyone.
>
> Tonight I stopped by a fellow co-worker's home and took a look at a
> Tek
> 535B scope. This gem had the Type CA plugin on the mainframe, plus
> the
> scope cart with a Type 53/54D plugin and a second, homebrew plugin
> (the
> scope was formerly used at Eaton Corp. All manuals, probes, leads,
> power cords appear to be there.
> My question is first, what are these plug-ins? Are they audio
> useful?
> Second, what are the problem areas of this scope? I think I can
> handle
> the calibration adjustments OK. It fits in with the "good vintage"
> Teks
> per the VTV issue #6 article on scopes. I already have a 40MHz
> Hitachi
> scope, but I'd hate to see this scope remain unused collecting dust.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris
>
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] Tek 535B
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:22:26 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n439
>Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0600
>From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
<snipped for the bandwidth baddies>
>Tonight I stopped by a fellow co-worker's home and took a look at a Tek
>535B scope. This gem had the Type CA plugin
>My question is first, what are these plug-ins? Are they audio useful?
>When it's running, the BIG
>fan blows out a nice amount of warm air. Good for those winter nights
>in the shop.
Don't point it in my direction! It's four in the afternoon here, about 38
degrees celcius. My scanner power supply failed today, I don't dare do
anything to generate more heat....
Type CA plugin is a dual trace (hey! stereo already!) DC coupled preamp
with a quoted risetime of 0.01microseconds. My understanding is that it can
also function as a differential preamp.
I'd like to know if the type CA plug-in has any audio use too. I have quite
a number of them, beautiful Tek workmanship, 1% resistors, silver soldered
ceramic terminal strips...seems too nice just to part out.
____________________________
David Crittle
retrovox@bigpond.com
____________________________
Visit the Retrovox Where?house at http://www.users.bigpond.com/retrovox
____________________________
Some pics at
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=149682
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] Tek Curve Tracer on ebay
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:01:21 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n754
Here's an item that may interest some:
Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=514062241>
I have no relation, interest, etc.
BTW, I have a lead on a couple of surplus Tek Transistor Curve Tracers,
just like the ones pictured in the ebay ad, I think. Assuming they work,
are they of interest for more than parts?
Thanks,
Rick
=========================================================================
From: "Remco Stoutjesdijk" <r.m.stoutjesdijk@student.utwente.nl>
Subject: RE: [JN] Tek Curve Tracer on ebay
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:26:21 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n754
> BTW, I have a lead on a couple of surplus Tek Transistor
> Curve Tracers,
> just like the ones pictured in the ebay ad, I think. Assuming
> they work,
> are they of interest for more than parts?
Nope. Not in the IC age I'm afraid...
The ones I've got here don't have too many goodie parts either. It's all
low-voltage, switched-mode stuff.
Regards,
Remco
- --
http://listen.to/rmsaudio
=========================================================================
From: connlyra@gol.com
Subject: [JN] Re: Tek Curve Tracer on ebay
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:53:01 +0900
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n755
Rick,
>Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer: BTW, I have a lead on a couple of
>surplus Tek Transistor Curve Tracers, just like the ones pictured in
>the ebay ad, I think. Assuming they work, are they of interest for
>more than parts?<
How do you repair these things, and how difficult is it to keep them
in operating and calibrated condition? Manuals?
If they worked, I'd be interested in getting one. What is a fair price?
jonathan carr
=========================================================================
From: Terrence Dorsey <terrend@microsoft.com>
Subject: [JN] Tek Oscillocopes
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:00:30 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n057
Anyone out there know much about Tek scopes? I've got a rackmount Tek 453
that I want to convert into a regular portable scope. Is this doable? (Looks
like I just need the case parts.) Anyone have a dead 453 they want to part
out? I have an Eico 460 for trade, if that's a consideration.
Terry
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE; [JN] Tek P6009 or P6063 + a mini probe primer
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:40:58 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n490
>
> Hello Dan, Chris, JLers-
>
> Is anyone aware of the compatability of the above probes with a Tek 535A
> scope with Type CA plugin?
Tek has pretty much a standard 1 Meg/20 pf input (as I recall, it is 20
pf) which makes the probes interchangable. HP uses a different
standard, a higher capacitance, but the probes are still interchangable,
as they are adjustable. X1 probes have (and need) no adjustments. X10
and X100 probes have a trimmer cap which is adjusted to be compatible
with the input capacity of the scope and the probe cable. This cap is
generally in the probe, but is on the scope end on some older probes.
The X10 probe contains a 9 meg resistor and typically a 7 pf trimmer
cap. The resistor causes a 10:1 attenuation at low frequencies. The
probe trimmer cap is adjusted for 10:1 attenuation at higher
frequencies. It compensates for the scope input capacitance as well as
the probe lead capacitance. The ratio of the probe trimmer cap is
somewhat less than 10:1 with respect to the scope inout capacitance as
it also has to compensate for the scope lead capacitance, but still has
a much lower capacitance than a X1 probe. You use the scope calibrator
squarewave and tweak the probe cap adj for best squarewave response
(and, of course, for calibrating the vertical sensitivity).
Some older probes have N connectors. This is a larger screw-on type.
Scopes made in the past 40 years, or so, generally use BNC probe
connectors. Adaptors are available to convert from N to BNC, so the old
probes can be used with later scopes. N connectors may be used for very
high frequency scopes, but I have not worked enough in UHF to be
familair with the equipment.
There are several reasons to use a X10 probe 1) lower capacity,
generally the most important reason, about 7 pf, typically, 2) to
decrease the amplitude of higher voltage signals and 3) to achieve a
higher probe impedance, 10 Megs vs 1 Meg for a X1 probe. Special low
capacitance probes are available for high frequency usage, but the
garden variety probes are more than adequate for audio work, although a
X1 probe can load down high frequency signals when measuring high
impedance circuits, even at audio frequencies, especially a X1 probe
with a very long cable.
>
> Dan - Thanks for the eBay lead. When does one use a 100X probe?
To attenuate very high amplitude signals, to achieve a very high probe
impedance for measuring very high impedance circuits, or to achieve a
very low probe capacitance for measuring high-impedance, high-frequency
signals.
Dan Marshall
> Chris - Could you check your probe numbers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Robert C Chambers <rchamber@norwich.edu>
Subject: [JN] Tek P6009 or P6063 Scope Probes
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:00:18 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n490
Hello Dan, Chris, JLers-
Is anyone aware of the compatability of the above probes with a Tek 535A
scope with Type CA plugin?
Dan - Thanks for the eBay lead. When does one use a 100X probe?
Chris - Could you check your probe numbers?
Thanks,
Robert
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek P6009 or P6063 Scope Probes
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:18:03 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n490
>When does one use a 100X probe?
100x probes in geveral have higher input impedance and therefor are suited
to measure either high voltages or high impedance sources (compared to 50
ohm)
regards
Guido
>Chris - Could you check your probe numbers?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Robert
>
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Chris and Susan Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek P6009 or P6063 Scope Probes
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:32:20 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n491
Sure, I'll post them in a day or so. I know I have a 10X and a 100X probe,
tho.
Chris
Robert C Chambers wrote:
> Hello Dan, Chris, JLers-
>
> Is anyone aware of the compatability of the above probes with a Tek 535A
> scope with Type CA plugin?
>
> Dan - Thanks for the eBay lead. When does one use a 100X probe?
>
> Chris - Could you check your probe numbers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
=========================================================================
From: Chris and Susan Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: [JN] Tek scope - cathode interface??
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:08:10 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
I was reading Stan Griffiths' book "Ocilloscopes - Selecting and
Restoring a Classic" tonight. What an interesting read, and Tektronix
was and is quite a company. He makes a big point of checking for
"cathode interface" on the scopes. Is this really an issue?? I've not
heard of anyone else mention it, and from what I've read, this problem
occurs primarily in tubes where there is no current flowing for long
periods, such as computers where the tubes are cut off.
I did notice the "spike" on the leading edge of the square waves today
that Stan says is indicative of the problem, but that could be due to my
voltage problem. Now, since I'll be primarily looking at low frequency
stuff (audio), is it a problem even if it is present? I really don't
feel like retubing the plugin, the vertical amp, and then having to
recalibrate the beast.
Thanks!
Chris
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <Tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek scope - cathode interface??
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:56:54 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
Chris and Susan Beck wrote:
snip>
> I did notice the "spike" on the leading edge of the square waves today
> that Stan says is indicative of the problem, but that could be due to my
> voltage problem. Now, since I'll be primarily looking at low frequency
> stuff (audio), is it a problem even if it is present? I really don't
> feel like retubing the plugin, the vertical amp, and then having to
> recalibrate the beast.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris
Hi
Hey I'm sure you probably know this but just in case you didn't, the probes
for O'scopes need to be adjusted (if you are using a probe).
Look for a small adjustment screw on the probe body or at the connector.
Assuming nothing else is wrong, just go back to the square wave and adjust
it a little and see if the square wave gets better.
Tom
Nice catch on the scope, I have a pair of old 545's in the garage if you
need parts. Is yours an "A" or a "B"?
=========================================================================
From: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
Subject: [JN] Tek scope rehab
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:33:02 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n488
>So, what is the best procedure for going through the scope, cleaning it,
>internally and externally, and checking the functioning? I have a basic
>emission tube tester, but the thought of replacing >60 tubes is pretty
>daunting. Hopefully they are all strong.
Speaking of Tek scopes, I've been using a 454 for a few years now, picked up
for a steal at an MIT auction. The only problem with it seems to be in the
trigger circuit. I remember someone telling me about a tunnel diode used in
the trigger circuit that tends to go balls up after a time... has anyone else
had any experiences like this with their scope?
Sounds like you got a good deal there, Chris!
kg
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek scope rehab
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:57:54 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n488
Chris Beck wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Well, I just gave a home to a Tek 535B scope last night.
These old scope is really good stuff. ( Most if not all 1960 vintage tek scopes )
The ones I have , has the sharpest and thinnest beam , I have ever seen at any modern scope.
And they do withstand anode measurements even on 845's :-)
The only problems with these old teks ( Apart from possible tubes and caps ) , is the pots and
connectors.
The trigger circuit can be a pain to trouble shoot. Watch out for bad socket connections as
well.
If the scope happens to be beyond reasonable effort to cure , a LOT of cool parts is inside.
I have used tek' parts in many of my amplifiers.
I simply love their ceramic solder boards. ( Be care full when you resolder them. If the
solder slips the ceramic , it is done and over with )
I have used their transformers for SE 211 and 845 designs.
I series connect all the high Voltage outs. I have sprayed them black and replaced the screws
with chromed tops.
Looks dead cool when it is "raised" over the amplifier chassis.
- - Kurt
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <EuropaChris@netscape.net>
Subject: [JN] Tek scope rehab
Date: 20 Mar 00 12:19:11 CST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n488
Hello everyone,
Well, I just gave a home to a Tek 535B scope last night. It was going
to end up at the dump, so I just HAD to bring it home. It's previous
owner just didn't have the room for it.
The scope has the Tek cart, a type CA plugin, a type 54B or something
along that line, as well as homebrew plugin of unknown function (it was
a scope at Eaton for it's life). I've got probes, all the original
manuals, and power cords.
The cart is kinda dingy, but the scope is in pretty fine shape, if a
little dirty from sitting in a wood shop in a basement. I haven't had a
chance to look inside it, but it doesn't look bad. Best part of the
deal is the scope seems to work quite well, at least it powers up and
gives a good clean trace on the screen. I had told the previous owner
not to power it up (I was going to check it out with my Variac), but he
said he'd already fired it up and it worked.
So, what is the best procedure for going through the scope, cleaning it,
internally and externally, and checking the functioning? I have a basic
emission tube tester, but the thought of replacing >60 tubes is pretty
daunting. Hopefully they are all strong.
Thanks for any help.
- --
Chris Beck
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.
=========================================================================
From: Dan Kerl <dlkerl@ro.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek scope rehab
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:21:55 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n489
> ( Be care full when you resolder them. If the solder slips the ceramic , it is
> done and over with )
Make sure you use silver alloy solder on these ceramic terminal strips. You will
leach the silver out of the metal deposit, which causes the debonding you refer to.
Silver in the solder keeps keeps this from happening.
- --
Dan Kerl
dlkerl@ro.com
=========================================================================
From: Robert C Chambers <rchamber@norwich.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek scope rehab
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:53:40 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n489
Dan-
Could you please indicate some brands/sources for Ag alloy solder?
Thanks,
Robert
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Dan Kerl wrote:
> > ( Be care full when you resolder them. If the solder slips the ceramic , it is
> > done and over with )
>
> Make sure you use silver alloy solder on these ceramic terminal strips. You will
> leach the silver out of the metal deposit, which causes the debonding you refer to.
> Silver in the solder keeps keeps this from happening.
>
> --
> Dan Kerl
> dlkerl@ro.com
>
=========================================================================
From: Dan Kerl <dlkerl@ro.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek scope rehab
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:02:37 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n489
Robert C Chambers wrote:
> Could you please indicate some brands/sources for Ag alloy solder?
The brand I see the most is Kester.
quote from http://www.kester.com/soldelec.htm
The 62/26/02 TIN/LEAD/SILVER alloy is for special applications where
surfaces being soldered are plated with silver or silver-palladium.
Ceramic chip components and ceramic hybrid microcircuits are soldered
with this alloy containing silver so that the silver metallization
is not dissolved by the solder.
MCM sells an ounce of this for $2.99 (21-1795). You may be able to find
this locally. I've always been partial to the Ersin (Multicore) stuff
myself, but their silver alloy solder is harder to find.
See http://www.multicore.com/ to find a distributor near you.
- --
Dan Kerl
dlkerl@ro.com
=========================================================================
From: Ross J Lahlum <rlahlum@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek scope rehab
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 15:42:54 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n508
Chris,
Since you have the manuals, you are one big step ahead already!
Start by going through the power supply; check and adjust the voltages.
If you have a variac, use that, too, to make sure it regulates down to
the lower input voltage (100 volts, I think). If it breaks reg at the
lower line voltage, you probably have one or more tired pass tubes (6AS7
or 6080). Also check the ps riple if you have access to another scope.
You can also do this with your DMM on AC mV, but a scope is better. Put
a resistor in series with the scope probe for better isolation when
measuring ripple. When I used to work on these venerable boatanchors in
a cal lab, I found that most problems (when there were problems) were in
the power supply. It's highly unlikely that you will need to replace
more than a few tubes.
Also, the built-in square-wave generator is very handy for checking the
amplitude cal, frequency cal & linearity, & rise-time. Spend a few hours
reading through the theory of operation in the manual. You'll learn a
few things, and it's a pleasant read besides.
Oh, and if you have kids, don't let them touch the "sawtooth out" binding
post on the front panel while the sweep is operating. My son learned to
respect electricity at an early age thanks to this nice "feature"!
Good luck,
Ross
On 20 Mar 00 12:19:11 CST Chris Beck <EuropaChris@netscape.net> writes:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Well, I just gave a home to a Tek 535B scope last night. It was
> going
> to end up at the dump, so I just HAD to bring it home. It's
> previous
> owner just didn't have the room for it.
>
> The scope has the Tek cart, a type CA plugin, a type 54B or
> something
> along that line, as well as homebrew plugin of unknown function (it
> was
> a scope at Eaton for it's life). I've got probes, all the original
> manuals, and power cords.
>
> The cart is kinda dingy, but the scope is in pretty fine shape, if a
> little dirty from sitting in a wood shop in a basement. I haven't
> had a
> chance to look inside it, but it doesn't look bad. Best part of the
> deal is the scope seems to work quite well, at least it powers up
> and
> gives a good clean trace on the screen. I had told the previous
> owner
> not to power it up (I was going to check it out with my Variac), but
> he
> said he'd already fired it up and it worked.
>
> So, what is the best procedure for going through the scope, cleaning
> it,
> internally and externally, and checking the functioning? I have a
> basic
> emission tube tester, but the thought of replacing >60 tubes is
> pretty
> daunting. Hopefully they are all strong.
>
> Thanks for any help.
> --
>
> Chris Beck
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
> http://webmail.netscape.com.
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek Scopes
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:34:37 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n489
Hi Graham,
The 545 sereis is pretty much identical to the 535 series, except are 30
mHz bandwidth vs. 15 for the 535. They are good solid scopes. I used
to use them many years ago when I worked as an EE. They are single-beam
scopes, so the bad channel would be in the the preamp. CA dual channel
preamps can be bought for a few dollars. I would not go out of my way
to buy a tube scope though, unless one just fell into my lap, or is
closeby and can bought for a song and picked up. Shipping cost would be
more than they are worth. They do have a lot of nice tubes and other
parts. I bought a 535A a while back with a cart, CA plugin and six good
probes, one a current probe, for $25 total. I bought the entire thing
for the current probe alone. The guy wanted to dump it all and wouldn't
sell bits and pieces. I have though about parting it out, but have not
had the heart to do so.
The scope I use is a rackmount HP 181A, which is the same as the 180A
except is a storage scope. I like it very much, better than the Tek
scopes actually. It has a large screen and very clear, sharp trace.
The build reeks with quality. They can be found for around a hundred
dollars, more or less, with plugins. Mine has been very reliable. I
would get something like this, a nice, clean, operable one, then you
will have more time to play with tube amps. I also have a Tek 5111
storage mainframe I use with the spectrum analyzer. It's OK, but
doesn't seem to be in the same league as the old HP scope. Of course,
the Tek 5000 series were more in the lower-end price range, as I
recall. I have not used any late model high-end Tek scopes, so can't
comment on them. They would be quite pricey, too much for a hobby
scope.
Dan Marshall
> Gentlemen,
>
> Further to Chris Beck's posts...I have just found a Tek 545a for sale, was
> looking for one just after Christmas and this is the first one I've seen.
>
> The advert says that one trace "needs repair" and that there are four plug
> ins.
>
> Can anyone offer a bit of advice, like leave in alone, could well be sold,
> but would like a little information before I can get in touch with the
> seller.
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
>
> blackcat electronics
> 01253 855294 UK
=========================================================================
From: "Graham Ingle" <catelectronics@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Subject: [JN] Tek 'scopes
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:38:26 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n489
Gentlemen,
Further to Chris Beck's posts...I have just found a Tek 545a for sale, was
looking for one just after Christmas and this is the first one I've seen.
The advert says that one trace "needs repair" and that there are four plug
ins.
Can anyone offer a bit of advice, like leave in alone, could well be sold,
but would like a little information before I can get in touch with the
seller.
TIA
Graham
blackcat electronics
01253 855294 UK
=========================================================================
From: Ross J Lahlum <rlahlum@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek 'scopes
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:58:48 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n491
Graham,
If the price is reasonable, it's well worth getting it - those old Teks
were built to last, and often it only takes replaceing a couple of tubes
to bring them back to life. If you get it and need any help getting it
to work, let me know - I used to repair these in a calibration lab
years ago.
Regards,
Ross
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:38:26 -0000 "Graham Ingle"
<catelectronics@netscapeonline.co.uk> writes:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Further to Chris Beck's posts...I have just found a Tek 545a for
> sale, was
> looking for one just after Christmas and this is the first one I've
> seen.
>
> The advert says that one trace "needs repair" and that there are
> four plug
> ins.
>
> Can anyone offer a bit of advice, like leave in alone, could well be
> sold,
> but would like a little information before I can get in touch with
> the
> seller.
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
>
> blackcat electronics
> 01253 855294 UK
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
=========================================================================
From: Chris and Susan Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek 'scopes
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:43:00 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
I'm resending this. Forgot to take out my anti-spam measures from the return
adress.
Sorry about that...
Just an update on my Tek saga:
Cleaned her all up today, and it looks really sharp, almost new. I will
say, though, that 35 years of dirt takes a bit of scrubbing. I found that
Castrol Super Clean just EATS the tar film from cigarette smoke, leaving the
surfaces undamaged. The gunk just ran off the cabinet sections in the
laundry sink. Then I hauled the scope cart out side and found out what
color it really was. Yuck. The hammertone paint on the cart looks a little
blotchy after the cleaning, but it's pretty good, and ALOT better than it
was.
Fired it up and checked it out. I found two problem areas: 1) The "A" time
base trigger circuit is not very stable. It's very touchy to get the trace
to stay put. The control pot seems intermittent or very dirty. The "B"
time base triggers very solidly. 2) The +225V regulated supply measures
about 170V and has excessive ripple. All the others (-150, 100, 350, 500)
are within less than a percent and very clean. I believe this is the cause
for the low gain of the scope and also the calibrator test point measures
too low (it uses the 225V supply). I changed the 6AU6 and 12AX7 regulator
tubes for that supply, no change. Then I swapped the 6080's and all hell
broke loose. The 225 supply was better, but all the other supplies went
nuts, all going quite high.
I pulled out the 6080 and looked at it. Found that one cathode is missing
big chunks of the oxide material. I figure that oughta be the problem.
I'll replace the 6080 and see what happens. That should hopefully bring up
the voltage and help out the gain and the calibrator. Hopefully I don't
have a tanked electrolytic cap in the supply that's hauling down the
voltage.
If anyone has any other thoughts or ideas, please let me know. I've got the
original manuals that REALLY help. They are excellent.
So, other than what appear to be a few minor problems, the scope appears to
be in fine shape. I have to replace a few cable straps that fell apart, and
if anyone would like to trade a round bezel for the display for a camera
adaptor, let me know. I'd like to swap. OR, does anyone have a camera they
would like to sell?
Thanks!
chris
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Tektronics Power Trannie Info Needed.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:06:53 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n001
Hi All,
Say, does anyone have a service manual for the Tektronics 535A scope
that would tell me the configuration and voltage/current rating of the
power trannie. A copy would be of interest, as well as the part number
for the trannie, as I am tryuing to determine whether an available unit
is the same as the 535A trannie. A copy of that PS page would be of
considerable interest. I have a 535A I have been threatening to
scavenge for some time. I susect that Tektronics may have used the same
PT in all the 500 series scopes, but I am not entirely sure of this. It
is over in storage, or I would fire it up and take some measurements.
Thanks.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tektronics Power Trannie Info Needed.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:48:39 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n001
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
> Say, does anyone have a service manual for the Tektronics 535A scope
> that would tell me the configuration and voltage/current rating of the
> power trannie. A copy would be of interest, as well as the part number
> for the trannie, as I am tryuing to determine whether an available unit
> is the same as the 535A trannie. A copy of that PS page would be of
> considerable interest. I have a 535A I have been threatening to
> scavenge for some time. I susect that Tektronics may have used the same
> PT in all the 500 series scopes, but I am not entirely sure of this. It
> is over in storage, or I would fire it up and take some measurements.
I usually have access to a large file of such manuals but,
unfortunately, that access is currently prevented by a
medical problem on my staff. If you still need this in a
few weeks, let me know.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: Tektronics Power Trannie Info Needed.
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:55:39 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n004
Hi All,
Thanks to all who responded, both publically and privately. I have the
information needed and it looks as though the 535 series tranformers
would be suitable for a tube power amp by connecting the proper
secondaries in series and using a full wave bridge. Many thanks to Joe
Pledger for supplying the model number, all the winding voltages,
current ratings and the terminal connection numbers, a thorough job he
did. The PT model/part number is T 700 for the 535 scope. Since I only
have one scope (a 535A) to scavenge, I could use another power
transformer. So, if anyone has a surplus unit they could be persuaded
to part with for less than a kings ransom it would much appreciated. At
the going rate for 535s, it probably would be cheaper to just buy an
entire scope.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: Tektronics Power Trannie Info Needed.
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:57:17 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n004
Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks to all who responded, both publically and privately.
sbip-
At
> the going rate for 535s, it probably would be cheaper to just buy an
> entire scope.
>
> Dan Marshall
Hi Dan,
They seem to be going for $50 to $100 down here, with $15 for plugin
modules. There is a possible side benefit, as they seem to have around
60 tubes, some of which could be useful.
Trouble is the shipping would probably be the largest portion of the
cost.
Regards,
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: Tektronics Power Trannie Info Needed.
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:10:50 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
Joe Pledger wrote:
>
> Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Thanks to all who responded, both publically and privately.
>
> sbip-
>
> At
> > the going rate for 535s, it probably would be cheaper to just buy an
> > entire scope.
> >
> > Dan Marshall
>
> Hi Dan,
> They seem to be going for $50 to $100 down here, with $15 for plugin
> modules. There is a possible side benefit, as they seem to have around
> 60 tubes, some of which could be useful.
> Trouble is the shipping would probably be the largest portion of the
> cost.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Pledger
Hi Joe,
I guess I lucked out, I picked mine up at a garage sale for twenty five
bucks, including a scope cart and a CA plugin which worked on one
channel. The best part was that there were 5 good Tek scope probes and
a nice Tek current probe in the drawer. The guy coundn't hardly wait to
get rid of it. It seems a shame to scavange it, I used to use them
years ago in engineering. BTW they have around twenty 6DJ8s in them,
mine are mostly Bugle Boys and all test quite good. The CA plugin has a
pair of Telefunken 12AT7s, unfortunaltely they are a bit wanked out.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Woodley <twoodley@freespace.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: Tektronics Power Trannie Info Needed.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:38:35 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
> to part with for less than a kings ransom it would much appreciated. At
> the going rate for 535s, it probably would be cheaper to just buy an
> entire scope.
>
> Dan Marshall
What is the going rate for 535s?
Thanks, Thom.
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: Tektronics Power Trannie Info Needed.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:32:51 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
Hi Thomas,
I am not entirely sure. Joe Pledger says they go for fifty to a hundred
bucks in his part of the country. I bought mine for 25 bucks with a CA
plugin working on one channel, a scope cart, five older, but good Tek
probes and a nice Tek current probe. It is a clean, fully operational
unit except for the one channel in the plugin. So, its anybody's
guess. I would think that a beatup non-operational unit should be
available for, say thirty-five bucks at surplus places, but who knows, I
could be way off base. Shipping costs pretty restricts them to local
sales and they are so bulky, generate so much heat and have such high
maintenance and calibration requirements that the demand is not high,
especially when fairly nice little SS scopes can be had for a hundred
bucks, or so. I think most folks pick them up and sell the tubes and
scrap the rest. They have approximately 20 6DJ8s, mine are mostly Bugle
Boy and check strong.
Dan Marshall
Thomas Woodley wrote:
>
> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
>
> > to part with for less than a kings ransom it would much appreciated. At
> > the going rate for 535s, it probably would be cheaper to just buy an
> > entire scope.
> >
> > Dan Marshall
>
> What is the going rate for 535s?
>
> Thanks, Thom.
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: Tektronics Power Trannie Info Needed.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:36:34 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n007
Daniel J. Marshall wrote:
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> I am not entirely sure. Joe Pledger says they go for fifty to a hundred
> bucks in his part of the country. I bought mine for 25 bucks with a CA
-big snip-
> > Thanks, Thom.
Hi Guys,
I got mine at a state auction and it came from a university...Cart, one
plugin, no manual (that wat $16 afrom a private vendor) no probes...
$100.
What can I say...I'm a sucker for auctions! (It works!)
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tektronix 160A PS Wanted
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:59:18 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Rick Francis wrote:
> Tek made these vertically oriented units as PS for their test units.
> They used 3 5AR4's and some VR tubes. I've got a project in mind for
> which I need another of these. Anyone got one getting dusty?
We've sold off a few but may have some left.
Unfortunately, access is temporarily compromised. Will
check in a few weeks.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Michael Kerster <mkerster@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tektronix 160A PS Wanted
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:34:50 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
Hi!
I've got one, and the schematic. In case you don't already know, these were
used in medical applications,
among others. How much $ are you offering?
Regards, Mike
At 08:45 AM 1/21/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Tek made these vertically oriented units as PS for their test units.
>They used 3 5AR4's and some VR tubes. I've got a project in mind for
>which I need another of these. Anyone got one getting dusty?
>
>Rick
>
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] Tektronix 160A PS Wanted
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:45:16 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
Tek made these vertically oriented units as PS for their test units.
They used 3 5AR4's and some VR tubes. I've got a project in mind for
which I need another of these. Anyone got one getting dusty?
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tektronix 160A PS Wanted
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:13:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n017
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
>
> We've sold off a few but may have some left.
> Unfortunately, access is temporarily compromised. Will
> check in a few weeks.
>
> Kal
Kal, I found another one here locally, so there's no desperation. But
I'd still be interested in hearing what you turn up.
I've now got 4 of these pups, which I thought might work out swell for a
Wiggins Circlotron OTL amp -- as that requires 4 matching PT's. Have to
make sure that voltage is in the ballpark with choke input, but I bet
it's close enough.
Thanks,
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tektronix 160A PS Wanted
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:31:04 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Rick Francis wrote:
> Kalman Rubinson wrote:
> >
> > We've sold off a few but may have some left.
> > Unfortunately, access is temporarily compromised. Will
> > check in a few weeks.
> >
> > Kal
>
> Kal, I found another one here locally, so there's no desperation. But
> I'd still be interested in hearing what you turn up.
I'll check it out this week.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: "Graham Ingle." <blackcat.e@virgin.net>
Subject: [JN] Tektronix 5115 'scopes.
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:09:59 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n382
Can any one please offer any advice ?
My 'scope died on Christmas eve and I'm unwilling to pay the repair cost.
It is cheaper to buy a second hand one, I can get a Tek 2215 60 meg with a
years guarantee at a reasonable price...but I've been told of a 5115 with
5818N and 5810N amplifiers and it's also fitted with a Polaroid camera.
Can any one share any knowledge about this model...bandwidth, problems, if
any, in fact anything to help ? It seems to be a little too inexpensive to
be a good buy. Maybe I'm too suspicious for my own good !
Thanks.
Graham.
blackcat electronics
blackcat.e@virgin.net
01253 855294 UK
=========================================================================
From: Eric Knudsen <osgood@knudsenengineering.com>
Subject: [JN] Tektronix 564B
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:15:16 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n491
I've had a Tek scope collecting dust in my office for the last year. It was
dropped there by a technician who was cleaning out the lab, and was too
lazy to carry it all the way to the dumpster. It worked the last time it
was used, but no one remembers how long ago that was. Is it worth taking
home and using for audio test purposes, or should I just appreciate it as
'60's period office decoration (much more impressive than a potted plant)?
Tektronix 564B Storage Oscilloscope with Auto Erase
Plugins (only two can be used at once):
Type 3A74 Four Trace
Type 3B4 Time Base
3L5 Spectrum Analyzer Plug-in Unit
Discrete transistors and some tubes - don't see any IC's
Eric
=========================================================================
From: tube@jump.net
Subject: Re: [JN] Tektronix 564B
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:39:58 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n491
Eric,
You asshole! Somebody GAVE you one?!?! Well, I got two 302A wave
analyzers for $2 each, so I guess I can't complain. Okay, I take back
the asshole thing.
Anyway, my Stan Griffiths oscilloscope book says:
The 564 allows you to store waveforms on the upper or lower half while
using the other half as a normal o'scope. The tubes tend to have
shorter lives and are impossible to replace. The 564 is worth About
$100 used (not counting plug-ins, I think).
3A74: 2 MHz, very good general series amp. Here are your "transistors";
actually 7586 nuvistors, i.e. triodes. Despite Stan's comments, these
are VERY easy to replace. I bought 100 for $100, and even in small
numbers they are less than $2 each.
3B4 Timebase: 50 ns per division max sweep speed. Excellent unit.
3L5 Spectrum analyzer: 10 Hz to 1 MHz, min resolution 10 Hz. Crude
by modern standards, because of the very slow sweep speed. Unless,
of course, you just happen to have a storage o'scope!!! (Since that
can store the waveform, thereby making the slow sweep irrelevant.)
I don't actually know how useful it would be for audio purposes. But
I damn sure know whether I would keep one, just in case, given half
a chance!
Envious Phil
Eric Knudsen wrote:
> I've had a Tek scope collecting dust in my office for the last year. It was
> dropped there by a technician who was cleaning out the lab, and was too
> lazy to carry it all the way to the dumpster. It worked the last time it
> was used, but no one remembers how long ago that was. Is it worth taking
> home and using for audio test purposes, or should I just appreciate it as
> '60's period office decoration (much more impressive than a potted plant)?
>
> Tektronix 564B Storage Oscilloscope with Auto Erase
> Plugins (only two can be used at once):
> Type 3A74 Four Trace
> Type 3B4 Time Base
> 3L5 Spectrum Analyzer Plug-in Unit
>
> Discrete transistors and some tubes - don't see any IC's
>
> Eric
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: [JN] TEKTRONIX CERAMIC TUBE AMP TERMINALS STRIPS on eBay
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:13:32 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n761
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1202331250
>
>
No association
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: Carter Hendricks <carter@i1.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] TEKTRONIX CERAMIC TUBE AMP TERMINALS STRIPS on eBay
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:27:47 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n761
Bill--
I think TEK-type brackets are a standard item
in Michael Percy's line of goodies, though
I find myself buying lots of his single [short
or tall] Japanese ceramic standoffs rather than
using the TEK brackets I've salvaged.
I was just "talking" with a friend about the
Kiwame resistors which MP also imports. I
think that they are different from AB's, clear
and open but without the mechanical bite of
most metal films, and both available and
available in plenty of values at ~1% tol.
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: "Joe" <doodle@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek update
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:31:11 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n488
Hi Chris,
Know what you mean...I've got a 535 with type CA and type D plug-in's.
They were built like dinosaurs...Probably never see engineering like that
ever again.
My 535 is wrapped in plastic and sitting on it's cart in the storage bldg.
No room in the house.
I will not dismantle it for any parts. Perhaps some day, a historical
society will want it.?
Regards,
Joe Pledger
PS: My last four Sony products died, as did a Teac CD, and yes another Sony
DAT Deck(just the faceplate).
On the other hand, I still have a late 50's am/fm portable that's still in
service in the garage..go figure...are "bean counter's"
involved in electronic engineering??
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Beck <EuropaChris@netscape.net>
To: JoeList <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 6:01 PM
Subject: [JN] Tek update
> Just an update: The Tek is a 535 'A', mid 60's vintage, not 'B' as I
> previously thought. The plugins are the CA and a Type 53/54D.
>
-big snip-
> Chris
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
http://webmail.netscape.com.
>
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek update
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:45:34 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n488
In a message dated 3/20/00 7:33:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
doodle@teleport.com writes:
> are "bean counter's"
> involved in electronic engineering?
In the same sense that Vlad the Impaler was involved in human relations...
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <EuropaChris@netscape.net>
Subject: [JN] Tek update
Date: 20 Mar 00 20:01:31 CST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n488
Just an update: The Tek is a 535 'A', mid 60's vintage, not 'B' as I
previously thought. The plugins are the CA and a Type 53/54D.
I pulled the covers off tonight and had a look. Everything appears to be in
great shape. Many of the tubes have been replaced at one time, from what I
gather. Very few of the tubes are labelled "Tektronix". However, there is
everything from Telefunken 12AX7's and AU7's, to PQ and Bugle Boy 6922's (of
course, it's a Tek...) However, this scope is for restoration, not butchering
for tubes. After seeing the amazing engineering that went into something like
this, there's no way NOT to clean up the old girl.
Just the way parts hinge away to allow access to the tubes kills me.
Wonderful mechanical and electrical engineering. In the CA Plugin manual,
there is a catalog section that lists ALL the scopes, tracers, plugins,
accessories, etc that were current in 1959. These scopes were listing out in
the US$1500 range. Pretty expensive for that timeframe. That would be what,
$10,000 today? Maybe more?
The guts are pretty clean, except for the lowest level, which is kinda grungy.
Mostly sawdust and lint, but there is no corrosion at all. The fan has been
replaced by a 4" muffin style on some custom bracketry. It moves PLENTY of
air, so all seems OK there.
I ordered the Tek restoration book from Antique Electronic Supply for a primer
on working on it before I do something stupid. So, now it's time to go through
the manuals, clean her up, and see what she'll do from a calibration
standpoint.
ENJOY! This stuff is fun!
Chris
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek update/bean counters
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:37:11 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
Thomas Danley Tom@ppci.com wrote:
SNIP
> Hi
> Hey its not just in electronics where "bean counters" show up, I collect
> antique engines, the kind with big spoked flywheels and some of them are
> pretty old. The oldest is a 1 1/2 hp from 1910, it uses a "hit and miss"
> governor, vacuum operated intake valve and tips the scales at 300 lb. The
> biggest is from 1915 and is an "oil" engine (Fairbanks Morse "Y") which makes
> 15 HP on one 620 cu/in cylinder and has 2, 7" wide by 48" dia flywheels. This
> engine runs happily at 90 RPM and weighs 5800 lb (without the cart) and makes
> a nice "thump thump thump" out of the 5 " dia exhaust pipe.. All of the
> engines were way over built and hence run about as well now as when they were
> made. I would like to see a "modern" engine do that or even see if one could
> be salvaged after being neglected for 50 years.
> Tom
===================================
Hi All:
Back in 1970 I scratch built a glass beader that required about 50 CFM
of compressed air at 80PSI. The pressure is low enough that a single stage
compressor will do the job efficiently but at 4HP/cf/m of free air that
required a 12.5HP machine, 15HP actually as no one makes a 12.5HP electric
motor.
Anyway, it turned out that a local car dealership had just replaced
their air compressor and had a 15HP, water cooled, Gardner Denver compressor
c/w motor and electrics sitting outside in the rain. So for the princely sum
of $150.00 I loaded it into the back of my 1951 International Harvester 3/4
ton and lugged home down on the overload springs in bull low, 1st and 2nd
gear.
After getting it into the shop, I called GD and discovered that the
thing was made before WWII. Having already been advised that it had run
20+hrs /day since its installation, I deemed it prudent to pull it down and
check the rings, cylinder bores and main bearing clearances.
Everything was exactly as new, the mains "Plasti-guaged" out to about
.001" as I recall. So I just put it together and ran in and ran it. . . . .
You are right Tom, they don't build 'em like they used to.
One day I'll have to tell you about the direct drive, 3 speed, 3 phase,
motor-within-a-motor 36, 54, 7200rpm wood shaper I have.
Built in Paisley, Ireland (Scotland? I forget which) on St. Patty's Day
in 1930, the thing ran SO smoothly after I FINALLY talked the guys at
Akhurst Machinery in Vancouver to haul it out and power it up that had I not
been on their case for three years and not put foldin' green on the table
the day before, they wouldn't have sold it to me.
The damn thing ran smoother than anything they had on the floor . . .
and by a LONG way, even though a later tear down revealed that it had been
run hard, put up wet and worked on by butchers with pipe wrenches . . .
- -----------------
I don't know why, but this all talk and something on the Tese T/T list
reminds me of this droll bit of humour:
Three statisticians went duck hunting. After waiting patiently in
their cold, wet blind all day they finally saw a lone duck.
The first statistician fired his shotgun, but he shot about a foot high.
Then, the second guy fired but shot a foot low.
Instead of taking his shot, the third guy yelled "We got him!"
Best regards,
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <Tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek update/bean counters
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:42:30 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
Joe wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Know what you mean...I've got a 535 with type CA and type D plug-in's.
> They were built like dinosaurs...Probably never see engineering like that
> ever again.
> My 535 is wrapped in plastic and sitting on it's cart in the storage bldg.
> No room in the house.
> I will not dismantle it for any parts. Perhaps some day, a historical
> society will want it.?
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Pledger
>
> PS: My last four Sony products died, as did a Teac CD, and yes another Sony
> DAT Deck(just the faceplate).
> On the other hand, I still have a late 50's am/fm portable that's still in
> service in the garage..go figure...are "bean counter's"
> involved in electronic engineering??
>
Hi
Hey its not just in electronics where "bean counters" show up, I collect
antique engines, the kind with big spoked flywheels and some of them are pretty
old.
The oldest is a 1 1/2 hp from 1910, it uses a "hit and miss" governor, vacuum
operated intake valve and tips the scales at 300 lb. The biggest is from 1915
and is an "oil" engine (Fairbanks Morse "Y") which makes 15 HP on one 620 cu/in
cylinder and has 2, 7" wide by 48" dia flywheels. This engine runs happily at
90 RPM and weighs 5800 lb (without the cart) and makes a nice "thump thump
thump" out of the 5 " dia exhaust pipe..
All of the engines were way over built and hence run about as well now as when
they were made.
I would like to see a "modern" engine do that or even see if one could be
salvaged after being neglected for 50 years.
Tom
=========================================================================
From: Frank_Deutschmann@trepp.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek update/bean counters
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:45:54 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n499
>All of the engines were way over built and hence run about as well now as
when
>they were made.
>I would like to see a "modern" engine do that or even see if one could be
>salvaged after being neglected for 50 years.
Excellent analogy, Tom. But look at what Tek learned, after their
wonderful engineering nearly ran them out of business: now, Tek policy is
to crush all old test equipment they get their hands on.
About 10-20 years ago, companies suddenly realized that new features have
limited appeal to buyers and are becoming increasingly hard to innovate in
'mature' markets (such as audio, cars, machinery, test equipment, etc,
etc). Good, appealing innovation is expensive and difficult! (And worse,
hard to manage: how, exactly, does one manage the "ah-ha" process? What
role does management play in inspiring creativity? How can management
forecast, plan, and control such a wild process?)
So now, we have planned obsolescence and fashion fad marketing. And, of
course, a booming economy, effectively full employment, soaring equity
markets, and prosperity the likes of which the world has never seen before.
At least that's what they say on the nightly news, in between reports of
yet another unarmed man killed by the NYPD, discussions of what to do about
the homeless 'problem', the drug 'problem', the mental illness 'problem',
the ageing 'problem', the day care 'problem', and, of course, the dot-com
wealth 'problem'.....
- -frank, saying a cable modem in every house and dot-com IPO access for
everyone would probably be a killer presidental platform.....
=========================================================================
From: Chris and Susan Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: [JN] Tek update, part IV
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:12:17 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
Just a further update to those who care :-)),
I found a 6AS7 in my stash (equiv. to a 6080, but in a bigger
envelope). Plugged it in in place of the funky 6080, having to leave
the hinged panel where the "B" timebase circuits are ajar due to
clearance issues, and powered it up. Bingo. After tweaking the -150V
supply to get it dead on, all supplies now measure within tolerance,
better than +/- 2% for any of them.. Damn, not bad for a 35 year old
scope.
As a bonus, the "A" trigger circuit is now solid as a rock and the gain
of the scope is almost perfect. The square waves from the calibrator
are now perfect. A few tweaks and we'll be in business.
This is a blast. What fun!
Chris
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Tek update, part IV
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:31:03 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
Chris and Susan Beck n9zes@execpc.com wrote:
> Just a further update to those who care :-)),
>
> I found a 6AS7 in my stash (equiv. to a 6080, but in a bigger
> envelope). Plugged it in in place of the funky 6080, having to leave
> the hinged panel where the "B" timebase circuits are ajar due to
> clearance issues, and powered it up. Bingo. After tweaking the -150V
> supply to get it dead on, all supplies now measure within tolerance,
> better than +/- 2% for any of them.. Damn, not bad for a 35 year old
> scope.
. . . . and it'll likely run for another 35 years.
Btw, if any of those old can-type 'lytics get funky on you. you can
replace them with axials mounted on a little pcs. of unclad G10 with some
turrets staked in place.
A while ago I went thru the 63rd Tek 570 vacuum tube curve tracer ever
built (ser. no. 163) and replaced all the caps this way. It wasn't working
properly and some of the caps looked pretty cruddy around the terminals so I
just swapped out the lot. In the end, it turned out that it was the sockets
on the test panels that had gone oxidized. Once I replaced them and recal-ed
the old gal, she ran like a top . . .
> As a bonus, the "A" trigger circuit is now solid as a rock and the gain
> of the scope is almost perfect. The square waves from the calibrator
> are now perfect. A few tweaks and we'll be in business.
>
> This is a blast. What fun!
>
> Chris
===============================
Hi Chris, All:
Speaking as one whose hobby is collecting vintage machine tools and
refurbishing them from their bare cast iron to perfectly repainted,
replated, replaced, repaired and rebuilt splendor; I have to agree with you.
My shop is full of such old beauties and you couldn't give me enough
money to get get me to part with, for instance, my 16", 1700lb Tannewitz
table saw, that old White 89 shaper I mentioned earlier, my 12" X 24",
3500lb ! ! ! Holbrook Toolroom Lathe (with V-belt drive to the headstock, a
3 speed Snow Grinding Machine motor and pre-loaded Gamet tapered roller
headstock spindle bearings) or my Walker Turner radial arm saw(s, I have
another that is "in process")
Yup . . . it's a gas . . . . hard, dirty work but SO rewarding . . . and
they'll run first time, every time for the rest of my days.
There's an odd sort of security in that . . .
Best regards,
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: "Stefano Pasini" <stefpas@tin.it>
Subject: [JN] Telefunken/AEG turntables
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:56:13 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n356
Recently I have seen, in an Italian broadcast studio, several old Telefunken
and AEG turntables. Heavy, large decks built on the lines of the EMT 927/950
for records up to 16" (one was a 'PS81', the others I don't remember), both
idler-wheel and DD. Unfortunately, nobody apparently knows anything about
these turntables, and nor Telefunken nor AEG build anymore this kind of
equipment, so they don't even answer mail about the matter.
As a classic turntable collector and enthusiast, I am interested in knowing
something more. Does anyone know what these wonderful machines are, where it
would be possible to find spares, technical data, etc? Thanks for any help
that you will be so kind to give me....
Stefano Pasini
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: Telefunken EL-156 WAS [JN] Zenith 6L6G
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 06:41:01 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n338
TubeGarden@aol.com wrote:
>[Cool stuff snipped]>
>
> http://www.macnet.or.jp/pa/upi-k/tube2.html
Nice story, Al! Those ST-shaped Zenith 6L6G's must be kinda hard to
find...
That page also has a picture of a TELEFUNKEN EL-156. I have 2 or 3 of
these tubes, and I always thought they looked bitchin' -- but where to
find sockets??? Can someone tell me what these tubes were used for? Have
any Euro-joes worked with them?
Rick
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Telefunken EL-156 WAS [JN] Zenith 6L6G
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:25:43 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n338
Hi Rick,
I haven't worked with them, but see them sell on ebay for fairly high
prices occasionally. They are a power output tube, audio I presume.
You can find the short-form data for them here:
http://www.audio.com.hk/vintage/html/el156.htm
They are apparently a heavier duty tube than the 6L6 family, with higher
filament current and greater Po. The data shows 25 wattts Po at 450
volts, SE, I presume, as it doesn't indicate PP operation, but the data
is rather abbreviated. Perhaps some of the European Joes are more
familiar with them and can provide greater detail.
Dan Marshall
Rick Francis wrote:
>
> TubeGarden@aol.com wrote:
> >[Cool stuff snipped]>
> >
> > http://www.macnet.or.jp/pa/upi-k/tube2.html
>
> Nice story, Al! Those ST-shaped Zenith 6L6G's must be kinda hard to
> find...
>
> That page also has a picture of a TELEFUNKEN EL-156. I have 2 or 3 of
> these tubes, and I always thought they looked bitchin' -- but where to
> find sockets??? Can someone tell me what these tubes were used for? Have
> any Euro-joes worked with them?
>
> Rick
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Th. Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Sv: Telefunken EL-156 WAS [JN] Zenith 6L6G
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:38:15 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n338
Hi Rick.
The EL 156 were developed for audio !
Extreemely good tubes , way better than KT 88.
And these EL 156 , btw is genuine Pentodes :-)
Sockets are very hard to find.
You may have to do some yourselfe.
Sincerely
- - Kurt Steffensen
=========================================================================
From: Audio1Nut@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Telefunken RE134
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:11:51 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n476
Hi all:
I have TFK RE134 using as the pre-output tube replacing my Globe
CunninghamCX326. I use Tango NP216N permalloy core as my output, Phillip
Miniwatt AZ51 as rectifier. I finally able to bring the hum down on the
RE134(4V, 0.15A) but sometime the tube oscilate(shape noise). Yes the TFK
sound better(a lot better than the CX326), but I feel that it is susceptible
to vibration and very microphonics, the plate structure is horizontal.
My question is how can damp the tube, stop the oscilation. I really like this
tube. Any ideas??? thanks.....
Viwat
=========================================================================
From: terran jlowe <jlowe@vol.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Telefunken RE134
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:16:27 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n476
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, J. Gordon Rankin wrote:
> Not my preference but I would lose the permalloy also.
I can help you out if you decide to lose that permalloy. I would even be
willing to pay the shipping to help you dispose of it.
Thanks,
Joe
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Telefunken RE134
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 00 14:10:16 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n476
Viat,
I use the RE134 in some cool stuff I made.
First use good sockets like those from Yamamoto.
Second use regulated supply for the heaters, nice LT1085 works great,
dial it in for 4V.
Third, don't run it more than 10ma on the plate.
Not my preference but I would lose the permalloy also.
Gordon
=====> Wavelength Audio <=====
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: [JN] Telefunken Reel to Reel
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 00:19:36 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n897
Hey all,
I recently obtained a Telefunken reel to reel, Model Magetophon 204 TS 4
So does anyone know something about this machine. It came with a booklet (
even the original "garantie" card to send in) and a microphone.
Curiouis to see if anyone hows anything about this machine.
Thanks and CHEERS
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: Martinburm@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Telefunken Reel to Reel
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 04:02:42 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n897
> I recently obtained a Telefunken reel to reel, Model Magetophon 204 TS 4
>So does anyone know something about this machine. It came with a booklet (
>even the original "garantie" card to send in) and a microphone.
> Curiouis to see if anyone hows anything about this machine.
Hi Richard
I got this machine as a present when I left High School 1972.
I made some minor changes in the bass / treble control and this created
problems with the power supply that was not sufficient to drive speakers with
full bass enhancement.
Most problems are motor noise , a long belt, that is no longer available,
switches that use copper-coated epoxy strips as switch contact , and soft
head material in this stereo quarter track arrangement with a pressure felt
that increases wear.
I swapped this machine against a Revox 3 years later and there were worlds of
engineering and performance between them....
If you want to know more details about the whole machine, please contact me
privately. (I still have an old 203 from my brother (both are getting
old..)lying in one corner (for spare parts, if you need some..., not my
brother, I mean ;-))
Regards Hans-Martin
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Telefunken smoothplate 22-1-0-12 ?!? What the...?
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:45:27 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n831
Hi All:
> President Bush promoting his education plan: "You teach a child to read
> and he or her [sic] will be able to pass a literacy test."
That gives me the creeps . . . Why is it that North American leaders
don't seem to be able to speak their native tongue(s)
Bill Perkins - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] Telefunken smoothplate 22-1-0-12 ?!? What the...?
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:32:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n831
Joes,
I had the opportunity to prowl around some old chem lab test equipment,
and found a large multi-tubed pH tester. One of the tubes is only marked
"22-1-0-12". The tube sockets are all clearly marked with tube type
(12AX7, 5963, OA2, etc.), and sho' nuff, this socket is also marked
22-1-0-12. The tube looks like a nice longplate 12AX7, but... what is
it? Any help appreciated.
- --Rick
President Bush promoting his education plan: "You teach a child to read
and he or her [sic] will be able to pass a literacy test."
=========================================================================
From: "eric elghammer" <aryxaudio@lycos.com>
Subject: [JN] Telefunken STV 100 / 60 Z II info
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:52:02 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n865
Looking for a datasheet for this tube. It's a VR tube, 100V, 60ma.
Thanks, Eric
Get 250 color business cards for FREE! at Lycos Mail
http://mail.lycos.com/freemail/vistaprint_index.html
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Sv: [JN] Telefunken STV 100 / 60 Z II info
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 02:03:35 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n867
Hi Eric
> Looking for a datasheet for this tube. It's a VR tube, 100V, 60ma.
Being a regulator tube , that's all you need to know...
DAMN good stuff , BTW.
It contains a "helping" anode to improve turning on.
Ri equals about 20 Ohms or better.
It stays within 100V +/- 2% 5-80mA.( Usually less than 2 Volts regulation )
The chance is high that it is EXACTLY 100V at 50-60 mA.
105-108 Volts is enough to light it !
Pin 4 is Cathode , pin 2 is Anode , the other two is the "extra anode".
If you have plenty of Voltage , you do not have to use that extra , helping anode.
( I seem to remember that Telef. also made a Magnoval version of this tube ? )
STV never did.
Good luck with that killer regulator tube.
- - Kurt
=========================================================================
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_Andr=E9_Hansen?= <fishfish@yifan.net>
Subject: [JN] Temperature
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:35:03 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n803
I guess the few tubes I have don't mind low temperatures, but how about
pu's? Maybe a should store my unused gear elsewhere, as it sometimes is
around 0c where it is now (my bedroom.... I like fresh air so my window is
wide open even if it's -25c outside).
- --
Tom André Hansen
http://cgiperlsite.virtualave.net
http://fishfish.hos.online.no
EMT, FR, Scheu, Marantz,
EMI, homegrown and much more :)
Just got some problems with pop-up's
and lack of SSI+cgi-bin.... If you want
it for free you just got to work
some more.
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] Temperature
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:26:44 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n804
>From: Tom André Hansen <fishfish@yifan.net>
>I guess the few tubes I have don't mind low temperatures, but how about
>pu's? Maybe a should store my unused gear elsewhere, as it sometimes is
>around 0c where it is now (my bedroom.... I like fresh air so my window is
>wide open even if it's -25c outside).
Apart from temperature, other enviromental factors such as humidity,
dewpoint, condensation etc should be considered as well. Maybe sealed in
plastic with a few bags of silica gel? (I love the german word:
trockenmittel).
I have the opposite problem...inland Australia is hot and dry and dusty.
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <psieg@nxs.net>
Subject: [JN] Tennis ball tubes
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 15:46:18 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n776
Joes,
My son has scored 8 tennis ball tubes from a local "Junque" dealer. All are
pre-1922 metal base Wes (American Telephone & Telegraph engraved in the
bases). I don't have them here - he's in Chattanooga - but we have a VT-2,
101B, and 216A at least.
I have the data and curves for most of these. But I can't test them in my
TV-3 (duh!). I can put a battery on the filaments to see if they light.
How to further test? And anyone know a source for the 4-pin bayonet style
sockets for these?
TIA,
Phil
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] Bases and Vibration again...
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:48:06 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n501
Hi Jeremy Epstein, you wrote:
> Bill
> I am always amazed at the way you freely disseminate hard-earned
> knowledge of the trial-and-error sort.
> Either you are a very generous guy or this info is, in actuality,
> worthless.
>
> ***GIANT SMILEY FACE***
LOL . . . Yeah . . that's it . . .I'm just shinin' you on . . . . why'd
ya have go and spoil all my fun ? ! ? ! :>)
> -j
The reality is though that seemingly not too many folks are as neurotic
about getting it right as I turn out to be . . . Problems that stare me in
the face for a long time eventually just get up my nose and as they say,
"Where there's a will . . . . . "
You saw the posts on the JoeList vis air gaps, etc. Mikey's comments
about bulls**t specsmanship are dead on. But for all of that I *still,*
after 30 years, CAN NOT figure out who these people think they're going to
fool. By that I mean that if you are not your sternest critic, you can count
on the fact that some else will step in and do the job for you . . .and in
ways likely you will not like . . .
Having said that though, the accurate measurement of incremental
inductance, with appropriate DC biasing is not trivial. In fact, I know of
only two companies that have produced bridges that will do so under any real
power: GenRad in the US and Wayne Kerr in the UK.
The last time GenRad did a run of their 400lb, 200W AC, 200W DC, 50Hz to
15kHz, millivolt to kilovolt, 1630AV Incremental Inductance Bridge in 1995
they cost the US Navy $US45,000.00 each ! ! !
Anyway, and not surprisingly, it turns out that this is really the best
way to do the job so over the last while I've rounded up the component
instruments from all over the country. Soon, it'll be up and running and
THEN I'll have the ability - pretty much unique in audio as far as I know -
to actually spec REAL measurements wrt inductance vs. AC and/or DC
excitation. Additionally, that setup will allow you view the dynamic BH
curve on a (storage) scope and, of course take scope photos or, using a
digital scope, plot outputs on an XY plotter. While this gives a pretty good
view of linearity it's far from quantitative so . . . .
I rounded up a used Bryston 4B, bridged it mono and using that to drive
the *secondary* of an OT with the proper load on the primary I will be able
to do swept measurements of not only THD but of the individual harmonic
orders from 1st to 5th, from 20Hz to 20kHz, over a 75dB dynamic range and at
powers from a few milliwatts to about 800W at 15Hz. This analysis is done
using a bunch of Bruel & Kjaer test gear configured as a swept heterodyne
analyzer.
Then, by God, I'll what my stuff *actually* does . . . it'll be
interesting to see what *other* peoples' stuff does too . . . . very
interesting most likely.
Best regards,
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
================================
> PEARL Cust Serv wrote:
>
>> Hi Daus, All:
>> Where did you find this info ? . . . . I'd like to study it myself.
>> Wrt the business of MDF having high internal loss, this is emphatically not
>> my experience and I speak as one who spent better than a decade cracking the
>> problem of loudspeaker cabinet resonance.
>> During that time, I built it all: sand filled, tar damped, bitumen
>> loaded, lead lined, Baltic birch a la BBC, Formica laminated,
>> and on and on . . . .
>> I finally got fed up and found a source of extremely high density,
>> 5mm hardboard. This stuff always has just a bit of the oil they lube the
>> hot presses used to make it penetrating into the surface so I had it sheet
>> sanded both sides with a 40 grit belt down to 4mm thickness. From there I
>> bought some EVA glue, note that this is NOT the PVA glue used in cabinet
>> work. The EVA is used for binding books because it sets up just a bit
>> flexible and stays that way.
>> We filled a 4 ft wide roller-type glue spreader with the glue and then
>> laminated 5 x 4mm, 48 x 96 sheets together in a 250 ton veneer press,
>> one that's capable of 100psi over a 48 x 96 area. We didn't squeeze that
>> hard because we didn't want to "starve" to glue joints. That cured and done,
>> the material was sanded down to 3/4" and worked pretty much the way MDF
>> is worked . . . and that is pretty much the end of any similarity.
>> To evaluate a speaker box's performance one can use accelerometers,
>> stethoscopes, laser interferometry and or number of electromechanical
>> methods and while these work, they are any combination of slow, difficult,
>> uncertain and/or vastly expensive.
>> Since the best way to evaluate a speaker is by listening to it, it's
>> reasonable to apply the same procedure to its enclosure. All I've done for
>> years is to simply hunker down beside the box and reaching around to the
>> opposite side with one arm, sandwich the box between my hand and the
>> side of my head - "squirming" my ear onto a good seal so that I can listen
>> to the panel.
>> Doing this with a well braced box made from the laminate just described,
>> the sound is very attenuated, band limited (no top or bottom end in other
>> words) and VERY clear - no resonant character.
>> With MDF, the sound is MUCH louder and very muddied, with a sort
>> character that I can only describe as "boingy-woingy" - strongly
>> resonant. In fact this is the sort of sound I have heard from all
>> the construction methods mentioned above, the laminate being
>> uniquely silent . .
>> Measuring in free space - 25 ft above the ground on a special lift I
>> built for the purpose - the frequency response reduces in level using the lam
>> by about 2dB over the 100 to 400Hz band with the greatest reduction at about
>> 200Hz. The upshot being that only 1dB of band-reject EQ in the crossover is
>> required to make the speaker/enclosure combination flat +/- 1/2dB from 100Hz
>> to 1kHz. . . . . .
>> Best regards,
>> Bill - PEARL, Inc.
> ===========================================
> Jeremy Epstein .........jepstein@ndbcap.com
> ===========================================
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] Bases and Vibration again...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:08:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n502
PEARL Cust Serv wrote:
> Mikey's comments
> about bulls**t specsmanship are dead on. But for all of that I *still,*
> after 30 years, CAN NOT figure out who these people think they're going to
> fool. By that I mean that if you are not your sternest critic, you can count
> on the fact that some else will step in and do the job for you . . .and in
> ways likely you will not like . . .
For these reasons, a lot of audio misinformation is spread around as if
it were the gospel (I am NOT saying Mike does this, BTW, he is **very**
informative in his wave-the-MQ-flag sort of way, and I do believe he is
spreading information that is generally useful and which he knows to be
true) and information that is developed independently is often held
close by the developer, particularly if that developer is a commercial
interest.
This is why I especially applaud your willingness to share with
everybody - many people in your position would regard a lot of what you
share as trade secrets and would hold on tight. I guess I just wanted to
spotlight that for the hobbyists on the list who are not necessarily in
the same position as a manufacturer who is in a competitive arena.
Thanks!
I agree with you up to a point that, if you don't meet poeple's needs,
someone else will eat your lunch for you. But in the world of audio, as
all of us DIYs have gotten sick of seeing, there is a lot more to a
piece of gear than what they tell you you are hearing out of it, and the
market as a whole is not always very fair to the best products. If it
were, a Darling amp would cost 2000 bucks, and the
Anti-Hysteresis-Digital-Ready-Feedback-Servo-equipped buzzword bombs
would sit on the shelves, objects of ridicule.
I think this whole subject also brings out the special nature of the
audio DIY hobby - any manufacturer worth a damn has a lot in common with
the mad scientists who pursue audio design on the hobbyist level, and so
the sharing between the two groups is often very free. I don't expect
that is the case in many other spheres of interest.
- -j
- --
===========================================
Jeremy Epstein .........jepstein@ndbcap.com
===========================================
=========================================================================
From: Frank_Deutschmann@trepp.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: [teres] Bases and Vibration again...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:18:37 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n502
> Anyway, and not surprisingly, it turns out that this is really the
best
>way to do the job so over the last while I've rounded up the component
>instruments from all over the country. Soon, it'll be up and running and
>THEN I'll have the ability - pretty much unique in audio as far as I know
- -
>to actually spec REAL measurements wrt inductance vs. AC and/or DC
>excitation. Additionally, that setup will allow you view the dynamic BH
>curve on a (storage) scope and, of course take scope photos or, using a
>digital scope, plot outputs on an XY plotter. While this gives a pretty
good
>view of linearity it's far from quantitative so . . . .
> I rounded up a used Bryston 4B, bridged it mono and using that to
drive
>the *secondary* of an OT with the proper load on the primary I will be
able
>to do swept measurements of not only THD but of the individual harmonic
>orders from 1st to 5th, from 20Hz to 20kHz, over a 75dB dynamic range and
at
>powers from a few milliwatts to about 800W at 15Hz. This analysis is done
>using a bunch of Bruel & Kjaer test gear configured as a swept heterodyne
>analyzer.
> Then, by God, I'll what my stuff *actually* does . . . it'll be
>interesting to see what *other* peoples' stuff does too . . . . very
>interesting most likely.
Bill,not to burst your bubble or anything, but "unique in audio"? I don't
THINK so!
I've had all the above capability for the past several years now; well, I
sold my GenRad incremental inductance bridge as a) it was a PITA to use,
and b) I have other equipment capable of making the same measurements. (My
GenRad X-Y bridge will always be near and dear, however: I don't use it
much, but what a fine example of engineering!) And I don't have an X-Y
plotter, but I instead digitize and send stuff via HPIB to the computer.
My 'lab' is about 95% automated via HPIB, and I have minimum 12 bit dynamic
range capability on all measurements. I figure I'm about SOTA 1984 or so
for mixed analog/digital analysis, up to 500MHz.
But you know, all of this isn't really as impressive as it sounds; sure,
there are some interesting things to see -- some of the oft-repeated
"conventional wisdom" about xformers is wrong -- but mostly its
faster/easier to look stuff up in an engineering text than to go out and
measure/study it first hand. After all, this isn't exactly new ground:
'baseband' has been intensively studied since the early part of last
(this?!) century. Not to mention the fact that having invested a large
amount of time and effort into understanding audio non-linearities --
including applying some of what I do professionally to the study -- I have
come to the realization that measurement doesn't necessarily agree with
experience: that is to say, what measures better does not necessarily sound
better (nothing new there, to this list), but also what sounds better does
not always measure better (and may well measure worse). I'm fully
comfortable with this, for a number of reasons, but I know some people may
not be....
I mainly got into test equipment collecting becaue I love the classic
engineering excellence, and, prior to eBay, I could actually pick up stuff
dirt cheap at local ham fests. (Thanks to Grumman and Eaton and Litton and
Fairchild, etc on Long Island...!) Growing up as a computer/electronics
nerd in the 70's and 80's, I lusted after much of this stuff; now it's
MINE, ALL MINE! (If only I had the space for a VAX 780, I'd get one of
them, too!) (Best equipment-lust-inducing summer job I ever had: working
with a small team of real EE's in '84 at a small comapany in lower CT that
was building a custom ECL-based computer for a key weapons system for a
fighter plane.) Of course, its a lot of fun to aquire a classic
instrument, clean it up, bring it back to spec, and calibrate it, all for a
tiny fraction of the instrument's original cost or even current 'value'.
Today, my main enemy is time: I'm simply running out of time to do
everything from instrument rehab to calibration to audio investigations to
audio construction....
That all said, if anyone needs/wants a particular component/device analyzed
for some set of parameters, do drop me a note.....
- -frank
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: [teres] Bases and Vibration again...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:23:21 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n504
Frank Deutschmann wrote:
SNIP
> Bill, not to burst your bubble or anything, but "unique in audio"? I don't
> THINK so!
A couple of things here: first - what I said was, " . . . . unique in
audio as far as I know" and frankly I'm just as happy to know that others
have or have had such capability . . .
That said though, over the last decade or so I've spoken to or swapped
e-mail with just about every mfgr of tube amps around and no one had such
capability - most had no idea that such a thing even exists. That, of
course, is not to say that the people they sub their transformer winding to
wouldn't be able to measure their own products but who knows.
The "throw some s**t at the wall to see what sticks" approach to
engineering audio OTs I HAVE heard from some VERY reputable mfgrs simply
amazes me . . .
> I've had all the above capability for the past several years now; well, I
> sold my GenRad incremental inductance bridge as a) it was a PITA to use,
agreed . . .
> and b) I have other equipment capable of making the same measurements. (My
> GenRad X-Y bridge will always be near and dear, however: I don't use it
> much, but what a fine example of engineering!) And I don't have an X-Y
> plotter, but I instead digitize and send stuff via HPIB to the computer.
> My 'lab' is about 95% automated via HPIB, and I have minimum 12 bit dynamic
> range capability on all measurements. I figure I'm about SOTA 1984 or so
> for mixed analog/digital analysis, up to 500MHz.
I'm working toward that but to an upper limit of about 13MHz imposed by
the HP 3040/41 Network Analyzers. You know, the old 3330B synthesizer, 3570A
network analyzer, 3571A tracking spectrum analyzer. I do have a Tek R7844,
400MHZ dual beam beauty though . . .
> But you know, all of this isn't really as impressive as it sounds; sure,
> there are some interesting things to see -- some of the oft-repeated
> "conventional wisdom" about xformers is wrong -- but mostly its
> faster/easier to look stuff up in an engineering text than to go out and
> measure/study it first hand.
. . . . mostly, but if for instance you want to evaluate the
performance of a cruciform c-core using nanocrystalline iron sub cores, no
such information falls to hand and besides I just like to do the work.
Sure I have Compcore from NatMag and it's pretty accurate but Dick Wood
didn't build that software's database down into the 10s of gauss where
significant things in audio happen. Yes, the books are good but I like to
use them as a springboard for my own work.
As well, you can't do QC with books and the simple matter of some tiny
fit of crud falling onto the face of a c-core as the trannie is being
assembled con throw a screw into the works . . . I like to test EVERYTHING
before it goes out the door
Additionally, it's important to me that the things I say about my stuff
are accurate and repeatable by someone such as yourself. Reading TEK,
GenRad, B&K and HP catalogues is an education in "specsmanship." If any of
these people spec a parameter, you can count on their gear meeting spec 20
or 30 years later. That IS impressive and something I have always strived to
emulate.
> After all, this isn't exactly new ground:
> 'baseband' has been intensively studied since the early part of last
> (this?!) century. Not to mention the fact that having invested a large
> amount of time and effort into understanding audio non-linearities --
> including applying some of what I do professionally to the study -- I have
> come to the realization that measurement doesn't necessarily agree with
> experience: that is to say, what measures better does not necessarily sound
> better (nothing new there, to this list), but also what sounds better does
> not always measure better (and may well measure worse). I'm fully
> comfortable with this, for a number of reasons, but I know some people may
> not be....
I am as well but only partly and that is because it means that we STILL
don't really know what we are doing, that we are running this business on
outmoded and/or incomplete science and that, my friend, BUGS me. . . .
> I mainly got into test equipment collecting becaue I love the classic
> engineering excellence, and, prior to eBay, I could actually pick up stuff
> dirt cheap at local ham fests. (Thanks to Grumman and Eaton and Litton and
> Fairchild, etc on Long Island...!) Growing up as a computer/electronics
> nerd in the 70's and 80's, I lusted after much of this stuff; now it's
> MINE, ALL MINE!
Alright . . . alright . . . . I confess >> ME TOO ! ! ! <<
> (If only I had the space for a VAX 780, I'd get one of them, too!)
Nope, not me, I draw the line at buying old computer gear . . .yes it's
cool but square footage is expensive no matter what. . .
> (Best equipment-lust-inducing summer job I ever had: working
> with a small team of real EE's in '84 at a small comapany in lower CT that
> was building a custom ECL-based computer for a key weapons system for a
> fighter plane.)
Cool . . and you were all of how old?
> Of course, its a lot of fun to aquire a classic
> instrument, clean it up, bring it back to spec, and calibrate it, all for a
> tiny fraction of the instrument's original cost or even current 'value'.
Yup, I'm doing just that right now . . .
> Today, my main enemy is time: I'm simply running out of time to do
> everything from instrument rehab to calibration to audio investigations to
> audio construction....
Ditto
> That all said, if anyone needs/wants a particular component/device analyzed
> for some set of parameters, do drop me a note.....
Yes guys, PLEASE contact Frank :>) I'm up to my bee-hind in things
and do not need more . .
> -frank
Best regards,
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella" <tmackris@earthlink.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] Everything I Know is Wrong
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 01:08:22 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n618
Bob,
Maybe I should buy one of those amps that mixes the dough and bakes the
bread too <g> Maybe it can make some of those sacher torts that Jeremy's
become so fond of.
This (improvement) doesn't make much sense to me either. I had copied Tony
Glynn and will edit out the personal stuff from his response to me and
forward it to this list & the Joe List. His main point related to concrete
floors and not suspended wood floors ... still doesn't make sense to me.
With respect to suspended wood floors - no rules according to him ... try it
both ways & see what you like.
The challenging thing about this hobby (obsession?) is that once you
discover one reversal of what has previously worked for you, you end up
having to re-evaluate all of your other preferences as your decisions might
have been made in the context of the one you just reversed (sigh).
Cheers,
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: BobC <bobcx@bellatlantic.net>
To: Joe List <sound@lists.io.com>; <teres@aiko.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:52 AM
Subject: [teres] Re: [JN] Everything I Know is Wrong
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Mackris" <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:39 AM
Subject: [JN] Everything I Know is Wrong
> Remember, I said that the house has to show well, and what
> better opportunity to show the house well than with the
> warm glow of tubes and high sensitivity speaks ...
Thom,
Bake some bread and put hot the bread near the amp to keep it warm. You
can't beat the smell of fresh baked bread when it comes to selling a house.
> I believe he said that coupling to the floor (especially a concrete one -
> which my current one is not, BTW) causes a lot of reflections
> back into the bass horn.
This does not make a great deal of sense to me. I think that spiking should
improve the sound in most situations. A more solid foundation (smaller
contact area) should improve imaging etc, IMO.
> I recall Dave Slagle (?) commenting that sub woofers don't work with back
> loaded Lowther horns because the bass from the sub-woof makes its way
> up the horn & mucks up the sound coming out of the driver.
Wouldn't this depend on the design of the horn? Wouldn't any speaker be
affected by a subwoofer then, not just horns? This doesn't make much sense
to me.
>The proof as I recall
> was to play the subwoofer alone (without feeding any signal to the
> rear-loaded horn) and to listen to the output from the horn.
Who did this, and at what level was the output? Sounds reflects off the
walls and ceiling in my room also... Is it time to bring in the wrecking
ball? :) I am not using a sub with my Lowthers, but if I had something like
Bruce Edgar's L-90s, I do not really see the problem with it.
Many things have tradeoffs but I wonder what level effect we are talking
about. Do the positives outweigh the small negative effects? Or is it time
to commit harikari?
Bob
=========================================================================
From: "Jim Albano" <jimalbano@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: [teres] Everything I Know is Wrong
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 12:12:48 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n618
FWIW, I own Medallion II's/Lowther DX3's, placed in a basement,
concrete-floored listening room. I let my Lowthers break-in for about 200
hours and enjoyed them immensely throughout that period; couldn't figure out
what people were complaining about in terms of shout, lack of bass, etc.
Then I put Polycrystal cones under the cabinets. Big mistake. Sounded like
doo-doo. Out went the Polycrystal's, back came the sound. Tried the same
experiment at 400 hours . . . same results. Live and learn.
Regards,
Jim A.
>
>This (improvement) doesn't make much sense to me either. I had copied Tony
>Glynn and will edit out the personal stuff from his response to me and
>forward it to this list & the Joe List. His main point related to concrete
>floors and not suspended wood floors ... still doesn't make sense to me.
>With respect to suspended wood floors - no rules according to him ... try
>it
>both ways & see what you like.
>
>The challenging thing about this hobby (obsession?) is that once you
>discover one reversal of what has previously worked for you, you end up
>having to re-evaluate all of your other preferences as your decisions might
>have been made in the context of the one you just reversed (sigh).
>
>Cheers,
>Thom
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: BobC <bobcx@bellatlantic.net>
>To: Joe List <sound@lists.io.com>; <teres@aiko.com>
>Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:52 AM
>Subject: [teres] Re: [JN] Everything I Know is Wrong
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Thom Mackris" <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:39 AM
>Subject: [JN] Everything I Know is Wrong
>
> > Remember, I said that the house has to show well, and what
> > better opportunity to show the house well than with the
> > warm glow of tubes and high sensitivity speaks ...
>
>Thom,
>
>Bake some bread and put hot the bread near the amp to keep it warm. You
>can't beat the smell of fresh baked bread when it comes to selling a house.
>
> > I believe he said that coupling to the floor (especially a concrete one
>-
> > which my current one is not, BTW) causes a lot of reflections
> > back into the bass horn.
>
>This does not make a great deal of sense to me. I think that spiking should
>improve the sound in most situations. A more solid foundation (smaller
>contact area) should improve imaging etc, IMO.
>
> > I recall Dave Slagle (?) commenting that sub woofers don't work with
>back
> > loaded Lowther horns because the bass from the sub-woof makes its way
> > up the horn & mucks up the sound coming out of the driver.
>
>Wouldn't this depend on the design of the horn? Wouldn't any speaker be
>affected by a subwoofer then, not just horns? This doesn't make much sense
>to me.
>
> >The proof as I recall
> > was to play the subwoofer alone (without feeding any signal to the
> > rear-loaded horn) and to listen to the output from the horn.
>
>Who did this, and at what level was the output? Sounds reflects off the
>walls and ceiling in my room also... Is it time to bring in the wrecking
>ball? :) I am not using a sub with my Lowthers, but if I had something like
>Bruce Edgar's L-90s, I do not really see the problem with it.
>
>Many things have tradeoffs but I wonder what level effect we are talking
>about. Do the positives outweigh the small negative effects? Or is it time
>to commit harikari?
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: [JN] [teres] Goldring cartridges
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:29:03 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n639
I was gifted today with some older NOS Goldring cartridges. I was wondering
if anyone was familiar with these and could help me put them in a heirarchy
of quality.
G1040
EPIC II
Elan
Model 850
dave
______________________
Trust your ears, listen, practice hard
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] [teres] Goldring cartridges
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:03:01 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n639
In a message dated 8/22/00 9:33:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
planet10@pinc.com writes:
> heirarchy
> of quality.
>
> G1040
> EPIC II
> Elan
> Model 850
Greets!
The one you like the best is number 1.
The others are not.
Depends on your system, and ears :)
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] Teres homebrew turntable
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:03:19 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n668
For those who have been following this project, a progress report:
I have successfully gotten a turntable up and running, using Chris and Bryce
Brady's giant bearing and platter, Manfred Huber's motor controller design
(which was made into a kool kit by Chris Brady and Ron Welborne), Bernhard
Kistner's Kevlar string, and a basic arm provided by David Crittle. Thom
Mackris was also instrumental in developing this design and keeping the
project on track, and there are numerous Joenetters involved in the project,
including Roscoe Primrose who provided a mailing list, and others who
contributed to the design process: Paul Croft, Gary Bronner, David Seuss,
Kal Rubinson, Peter Clark, et al. I probably shouldn't do a roll call
because I'm leaving people out: apologies for that. Truly a group effort,
and a big group at that.
Mine is the 3rd operational Teres so far. Chris Brady had the first one up
and running, and Paul Croft was next. It's time to go out and score that
Babe Ruth replica Yankees jersey I've been eyeing! (For non-US joes, Babe
Ruth wore the number 3 on his baseball jersey.)
I can't believe I have a homebrew *turntable!* Way cool. I feel safe in
saying I am the first kid on my block to have one. Thanks to all the Teres
gang and the other Joes who contributed along the way, nice work, guys.
I am just at the crawling stage (my TT has been working only since yesterday
evening) and my implementation is crude - the bearing and motor attach to a
12" x 20" piece of oak-faced plywood, and the arm mounts into a small stack
of plywood laminations which is drywall-screwed to the main base. The whole
affair sits on two supports : the bottom of the bearing itself is one, and a
strip of plywood screwed to the main base along the right-hand edge is the
other. The arm and motor both mount to the right of the platter. I have put
three pennies under the bearing and the two extreme ends of the plywood
strip to approximate a three-point stance. It all sits on the floor for now.
Right now I am using a cheap Grado cartridge while I wail on all the parts
and try to get this thing prototyped. I was hoping to source a better Grado
but that deal seems to have gone sour. :-(
The sound is very promising for this stage of development - and I really
like having vinyl back in my system! Right now the phono section of my
solid-state Adcom GFP-555 serves as my RIAA amp, hardly the "Vinyl Savor."
This will be upgraded to vacuum-state technology someday before too long.
I expect to try a base of granite or bluestone (what sidewalks are made of
here in Brooklyn, very beautiful stuff, similar in appearance to slate and
very non-resonant) once I figure out how, exactly, I want to set it up. As
for right now, I am trying to implement what I learned from Bernhard and
others about cartridge setup and get this baby to sing.
Wish me luck!
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Teres homebrew turntable
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:41:13 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n669
In a message dated 00-09-21 11:09:31 EDT, JEpstein@ndbcap.com writes:
>
> The sound is very promising for this stage of development - and I really
> like having vinyl back in my system!
Yaaaaaay!!!!!
A L
=========================================================================
From: "Bernhard Kistner" <bernhard.kistner@gmx.net>
Subject: RE: [teres] [JN] tangential digression, record flaw correcting
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:44:41 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n693
Hello Alexander, hello Steve, hello all
try to answer your both posts here.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Lee"
<alex_cl_lee@yahoo.com> For system that can really go low,
just to mention a few like the old Infinity IRS, the
Wilson Audio WAMM, the Genesis 1 or any system that is
capable of producing true flat 16Hz - 30Hz you will easily
feel the effect of non-centered vinyl and warped LPs. On
a good analog frontend setup - I mean a well tuned arm and
turntable, you will end up with a headache in half an
hour. It is like someone pounding you front torso
constantly and frequently.
You sound like someone who has tried this out. So had I,
adjusting a customer's TT in a system with an old IRS; BTW,
I couldn't make this sucker sing ... and there was more
unease for the listener than only headache.
In most cases it ends up being cut off to like 28Hz for
the rest of the music to shine.
Seems to be the easy solution. But this depends on the
portion of old records you own, the tunrtable setup and the
listener's preferences.
If someone is after records like like my mentioned
Schoenberg recording and it's mind-bogglingly realistic
soundstage and dynamics (depending on it's low end) or a
first pressing of LSC-1809, "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and
his expensive system doesn't reproduce the soundstage, the
bottom end organ note and the air attached to that note, he
will consider the whole setup as an investment failure.
I already heard those records really sing, with their warps
and pressing bubbles, on a self-built system with a
turntable equipped with an Eminent ET2 air beared tonearm.
After the whole turntable was correctly adjusted, the warped
record secured with a Kenwood clamping ring and a record
clamp, no problem! No witchcraft needed!
--- Steve Zettel <zettel@libby.org> wrote: on 10/15/00
12:21, Bernhard Kistner at bernhard.kistner@gmx.net wrote:
>>In the lateral direction, the centering hole is
often imperfectly set. Meaning that the groove moves
the pickup from side to side, one time pr. rotation of
disk. (Or 33-1/3 times pr.minute...) <<
Interesting post.
Steve, thank you but also thank Torbjoern Lien, it was his
post and he did the triggering brainwork here which I wish
to honor!
However, how many LPs are really badly enough centered
to be a problem? Often? In my collection, I have been
keeping a look out for this, and it is exceedingly rare to
find an LP with visible to the eye side-to-side, cyclical
motion imparted to the arm, or even the cantilever from
off-center holes or improper stamping. Certainly nowhere
near the 1/3 quoted. Must be lucky, I guess. . .
Yes, you are lucky. BTW, did you look at them or measure
them? But I am lucky (and happy), too, with my old vinyls
and many of them show the mentioned flaw and nevertheless
sing!
Likewise, how many of our records are visibly warped? Yet
tonearm designers and some audiophiles worry obsessively
about the "proper height" for the vertical axis bearing
and the length of the tonearm to minimize VTA changes when
tracking a warp. Or mass becomes the issue. Or vertical
resonance.
Agreed. AFAIC, I need proper VTA once to be able to adjust
tracking force and antiskating. I would be happy if my
current tonearm would provide a scaled device for easy
readjusting of VTA for different record labels. One of the
reasons I am designing my own tonearm.
VTA changes by resonance, triggered by pressing bubbles are
an inevitable evil. Warps can be torn down by a vacuum or a
heavy ring clamping the record's outer edge. Vacuum works
better (and BTW, couples the record on the platter and really
makes mechanical impedance matching work <g>).
These are but one of a dozen single issues that seem to be
brought up while ignoring the complex reality of the tone
arm system as a whole. Or are they advertising
justifications posing as features and engineering after
the fact?
AFAIC, I do not think so. I am a KISS fan (no, not the
famous rock band, although their guitarist once managed to
impress me <g>), so I kicked all features looking nice but
useless or impracticable out of my design.
Unless I had an inordinate number of warped or
off-centered records that I simply had to optimize my
system for, I think I would rather have a tonearm
optimized for something that occurs *every* time I play an
LP.
Like antiskate or something.
So do I.
But: Can you replace your cartridge, tonearm, turntable?
Costly but easy. Can you replace an old record? Hmmm!? My first
priority is saving the old record, my second is good sound.
Bad sound indicates record wear or damage. So I hunt down
the cause.
Christian Rintelen / R.L.Andreoli settled that antiskating
cannot work properly, due to different friction situations.
Their conclusion, to ignore/skip the problem because
of this, I do not follow. Because existing practical
solutions work wonderfully even if not completely
satisfying! Because it is close to work properly and lets
you play 99% of your records atleast satisfying! If not, you
may temporarily readjust/reduce your skating
compensation.
So it is with centering devices and clamping or vacuum
fixing of the record. If the turntable provides these
facilities, you are free skipping to use them. But if
needed, they are at your disposal.
I had "famous" first pressings with so much excentricity
that they didn't play properly on a pivoted arm, of course
they played even worse on a passive (motorless) linear
tracker. The soundstage was moving and making sea-sick. When
centered, they played gorgeous!
Conclusion: the correction procedure is to be used where
needed only and on cherished records only! But if one takes
vinyl playing serious, the correction devices should be
provided for those special cases.
IMO, a linear tracker plays every record waaay better than a
pivoted one does. Exception: excentric records. So I center
them! And I measure my most cherished records for centering
imperfection. Only those!
You may argue about my poor cartridge, yes, you are right,
poor cartridge, but, it should not have become a cartridge
then <G>.
Paperwork for imperfections is short'n'easy: I put a sticker
on the inner sleeve of a record, noting down there what
eventually has to be done. (centering, VTA, ev.antiskating,
washing). If I feel so, I follow what is on the sticker.
Have to tell you about one record which still appears in my
nightmares: it would have been a $2000 record if not, if not
the groove pattern had been oval, elliptic, egg-shaped on
both sides, someone had been trying to fix a warped record here?
However, it could not be centered.
Don't mean to be a curmudgeon, or wet blanket. I truly
have learned a lot about vinyl playback from some of these
discussions.
AFAIC, Thank you !
Greets,
Bernhard
phone (office) +49 (0)89 120 22 0
phone (desk) +49 (0)89 120 22 302
phone (home) +49 (0)89 3000 22 75
eMail_office bki@helbling.de
eMail_home1 bernhard.kistner@gmx.net
eMail_home2 bernhard.kistner@t-online.de
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Danley <Tom@ppci.com>
Subject: Re: [teres] [JN] tangential digression, record flaw correcting
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:14:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n694
snip>
> Have to tell you about one record which still appears in my
> nightmares: it would have been a $2000 record if not, if not
> the groove pattern had been oval, elliptic, egg-shaped on
> both sides, someone had been trying to fix a warped record here?
> However, it could not be centered.
>
Hi
I have an favorite old irreplaceable Firesign Theater album which has
been badly warped and after sitting under a sheet of glass for part of a
year is now flat, but has a wiggle where the cartridge has to move a
lot to accommodate the egg shaped groove.
Playing the record, the cartridge will track it ok but produces a big LF
"whump" every time around on the outer 1/3 of the record. (Thorens
TD-125 MKII, SME series 3S and Ortofon MC200).
I found a solution which makes it perfectly acceptable even with the
bass speakers on.
Get a GOOD sound card, some are as good as a DVD by the way (very clean,
24/96KHz etc.) and record the album at 16 RPM on to the computer hard
drive. When finished, use Cool edit to re-sample at twice the speed
(restoring the pitch).
Cool edit can also be used to remove ticks and pops to some degree if
that is a problem also.
Now, the wiggle which made the woofers jump on each revolution is much
more tame, at 16 RPM the cartridge had a chance to more easily move
through the bad spot and there doesn't seem to be any real degradation
of the sound either.
The only thing I can think of that would be a negative is that the very
low bass would be high passed an octave higher which on the recordings
so far is not audible.
I am planning to switch all my favorite LP's over to 24/96 on the
computer hard drive eventually.
A review of different sound cards can be found at
http://www.bway.net/~rongon/home_rec/soundcard.html#Category_5
http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm
Cheers,
Tom Danley
=========================================================================
From: "Bernhard Kistner" <bernhard.kistner@gmx.net>
Subject: [teres] [JN] wetting agents for record washing
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:31:38 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n681
> Could be. How about doing the Photoflo (or Triton)
> cleanup on one of those affected albums, in the
> interest of advancing Vinyl Science?
Hello Igor, hello all,
none of the washing additives discussed here helped to remove pops from
wet-played records. I tried them out, all of them.
All those wetting agents used for developing photographs are great compared
to usual fluid dish-washing soap. But compared to what the semiconductor
guys use to flush their wafers, these are JUNK!
Back then when I had a running prototype of my record washing machine (In
feel sorry I finally sold it; didn't manage to build a second one ever
since), I obtained a flushing/wetting agent called "Genie in a bottle" which
came from semiconductor manufacturing use. Any one out there who knows a
company selling this stuff? In Canada maybe?
One single drop of this wetting agent in a gallon of distilled water would
cause the water to form a coherent film on a record which stayed coherent
instead of immediately getting dry spots.
I needed about a cm³ of fluids like Triton, Photoflo, Agepon, you name it,
to achieve results coming close to that but not reaching it and already
polluting the record with a thin film!
While I am typing this, a record I got from eBay is spinning for evaluation
of condition. Apart from three bad pops, it is pristine, a Thelonious Monk
recording called Monk's Music, Riverside RLP 12-242 mono, first pressing. I
had another copy of this record already, also a first pressing but waaay
from sounding that open and undistorted. I have tears in my eyes -- a
delayed birthday gift!
My other copy of that record sounds smeared, but not worn-out (I know the
difference from past experience). I know I could wash my smeared copy to the
condition of my pristine one, sorry correction: I could probably wash both
to a better condition than the pristine one has now.
Reason:
The record factory uses a mould release agent which remains in the groove.
This agent has a half-hard consistence like medium aged putty (I saw it at a
local record factory back then).
If this MRA is washed out the groove of a new record, the stylus rides on
the vinyl instead of the MRA. Which sounds considerably better.
If the record is used, the stylus has done a busy job to scrape the MRA away
in playing direction, yielding a resulting groove shape different to the
pressed one. Here removing the MRA does a big job impoving the record's
sound!
TME, records can be washed with pure isopropylic alcohol without being
damaged; all lipophile pollutions removeable will be removed. But then the
sound of the record is somewhat rough. There are also hydrophile pollutions
which should be removed with distilled water which *MUST* contain a tiny
amount of wetting agent. Washing with water removes the rough sound of
alcohol washing completely.
I made experiments using enzymes to wash out proteine-based pollutions with
promising results.
So combined washing with isopropylic alcohol and water containing wetting
agent and enzymes should wash way any stuff preventing the stylus from
having rubberless sex with the groove.
Removing pollutions like mustard, lipstick, ketchup, fingerprint, Cognak is
a nice-to-have side effect from record washing. The main purpose is to
remove the full-body-condome from the record AKA mould release agent. And to
get a smooth but dynamic sounding record afterwards.
To all who have access to semiconductor manufacturing: Who knows where to
get a top-notch wetting agent from the semiconductor industry? There are
quite some wetting agents to be tried out and I would like to get a sample
for myself to find out which works best.
Greets,
Bernhard
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [teres] [JN] wetting agents for record washing
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 13:54:20 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n682
Hi Bernhard, Joe's,
I have been collecting threads and posts regarding washing vinyl and
recipies for cleaning same for some time, and if you would like a [LONG]
copy, let me know off list. Can have text copy ready by middle of next
week, as it needs to be reformatted from Compuserve, MS Word, Netscape,
and, HTML docs.
Paul B
- --
Paul Butterfield
Winter Park (Orlando) Florida USA
paulbutterfield@mindspring.com
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Croft" <pcroft@iximd.com>
Subject: [JN] RE: [teres] Ladegaard Arm Progress Report - it works!
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 06:20:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n749
Hi Jeremy,
This is neat! The first Ladegaard on a Teres. Congratulations, manno!
Where do you get the time and energy to do all this stuff?
As long as you are being creative and playing records "backwards", why don't
you try cutting away most of the Teres platter and playing the records from
underneath? I'll bet you might find some real sonic advantages. Of course,
'might' is the operative word there. Hmm, adjusting the tracking force to be
negative, interesting...
By the way, Jeremy, check out my post to the group about building a
CD-Player. One step closer to a totally DIY system!
Cheers,
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teres@aiko.com [mailto:owner-teres@aiko.com]On Behalf Of
> Epstein, Jeremy
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:19 AM
> To: 'Teres@aiko.com'
> Cc: Joenet (E-mail)
> Subject: [teres] Ladegaard Arm Progress Report - it works!
>
>
> Hey! I got it working! Pretty well, too!
>
> Last night I mounted my Ladegaard air-bearing linear tracking
> tonearm to my
> Teres turntable and got it up and running and playing music for the first
> time.
sadly snipped...
>
=========================================================================
From: "Anya and Fred Humphrey" <afhumphrey@idirect.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Teres list / Turn Tables list ??
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:47:33 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n809
See the teres webpage at http://reality.sgi.com/cbrady/teres for some
background.
Subscription info is there.
Fred
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Hass" <jh@hifi-analyse.dk>
To: "Joe Net" <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 1:39 PM
Subject: [JN] Teres list / Turn Tables list ??
>
> Hi Joes
>
> Heard there is a mailing liste called Teres og something where the main
> subject is turntables. How du I subscribe to this list.
>
> TIA
>
> Jan Hass
=========================================================================
From: "Jan Hass" <jh@hifi-analyse.dk>
Subject: [JN] Teres list / Turn Tables list ??
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:39:31 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n809
Hi Joes
Heard there is a mailing liste called Teres og something where the main
subject is turntables. How du I subscribe to this list.
TIA
Jan Hass
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] Major design reconsideration!
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:00:03 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n560
Steve Zettel rightly observed:
> I am afraid we might have made a terrible blunder in our basic turntable
> design! Check out:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=344889265
>
> They may be on to something! Is it too late to incorporate some of these
> revolutionary ideas in our Teres?
>
> Steve Z
> near Libby, MT USA
Hi All:
I actually *had* one of those, I used to use it to play my Tom Jones
record ( my one (1) Tom Jones record ). It really was a riot . . .
Keeping a perfectly straight face, I'd tell a living room full of
listeners that I had the *very latest* in high end vinyl reproduction to
show them . . . . then I'd whip it out from beside my chair and put it on
good ole Tom, who just >happened< to be sitting on the coffee table in front
off the listening couch . . . It was a lot of laffs.
Trouble was though that like all moving coils, the suspension collapsed,
I took it to Midas but to no avail . . . sigh
Funny how one forgets about such things. . . . . ::>)
Best regards,
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
Did I mention that I have only one (1) Tom Jones record ? ? ?
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] New digital audio DIY mailing list...
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:44:41 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n760
On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Roscoe Primrose wrote:
> In support of a group CD transport & DAC project, I've created a new
> mailing list related to DIY digital audio. The initial project
> includes a CD transport based on a kit from DAISy, and two versions of
> a non-oversampled DAC, one based on Kusinoki's design and one based on
> the TDA1541. There are also plans to work on a 96/24 (192K would be
> nice, anyone know where to find an appropriate receiver?) capable
> non-oversampling DAC design.
Why not use I2S?
Kal
=========================================================================
From: "Thom_Mackris" <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] Phonophono
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 22:21:06 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n826
Hi Peter,
When my friend Blair Hansen ordered (and received) his Denon from Phono Phono,
he did it under the assumption that he was taking a chance, even though I had
relayed the positive experiences of others to him. He forgot about the order,
and about 6 weeks later, a little bundle of joy arrived. I hope your
experience is similar Peter.
Cheers,
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "phclark" <phclark@qwest.net>
To: "Teres" <teres@aiko.com>; <phonogram@Graphics.Cornell.EDU>; " Joe List"
<sound@lists.io.com>; " Analogue Addicts" <analogueaddicts@cableinet.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 10:21 AM
Subject: [teres] Phonophono
I guess all that glitters is not gold.
I placed a credit card order with Phonophono for a Denon DL103 on to be
shipped on 1/30/01, which they billed and confirmed airmail shipment.
After that, I have received one reply (promising to look into the matter) to
numerous inquiries as to the whereabouts and status of the shipment, with no
apparent action, and, alas, no cartridge.
As my German is not up the task of arguing my point in the first person, I
regretfully am now disputing the charge with MasterCard and pursuing the
purchase of a new cartridge from other venues.
YMMV
Peter C
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h Jean-Michel" <lecleach@paris.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: [teres] Phonophono
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:10:37 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n826
Objet : [JN] Re: [teres] Phonophono
Hello
For my Christmas I ordered a nice SPU Royal GM to Phonophono and receive it
few days later without any problem.
They are wonderfull to treat with BTW!
Generally I have some fear about ordering using my Visa card but not with
them. I have a total conficence in PhonoPhono.
Most probably the problem you had was with the shipping not with PhonoPhono.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "phclark" <phclark@uswest.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] PL tonearm ideas...
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:31:03 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n704
OK. If there were a shallow channel(s) machined into the length of the
bottom of the carriage slide above the air distribution holes that had
machined "branches" leading out laterally from the main channel, this would
ensure:
1. More even air distribution from a minimum of holes in the chassis plate
2. especially if the carriage slide were semi-circular rather than "V"
shaped.
I think the semi-circular carriage, which permits discarding the knife edge
bearing, has great merit.
Peter C
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roscoe Primrose" <roscoe@aiko.com>
To: <teres@aiko.com>; "JoeNet" <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 12:00 PM
Subject: [teres] PL tonearm ideas...
> I'm gonna build one, but I had an idea about air distribution. With the
> basic design, you either have to:
>
> 1: have a bunch of holes that are often uncovered by the slider
>
> 2: put all the holes near the middle so they'll always be covered by the
> slider.
>
> Option 1 uses a lot of wasted air, which probably leads to a larger,
> more expensive, noisier air source. Option 1 may also produce noise on
> it's own with the uncovered holes. Option 2 relies on lateral air flow
> to keep the ends of the slider floating when the slider is at it's
> travel extremes.
>
> I've come up with an idea which should be able to solve both problems.
> First, we build the base/lower aluminum angle as if we were going for
> option 2. Then, we cut two grooves in the outside of the glider that go
> almost, but not quite, the length of the slider. These grooves should
> be positioned on each side of the slider so they're directly over the
> holes in the base. If the grooves are sufficiently large, we should
> have essentially constant air pressure along the entire length of the
> groove, which becomes the actual air supply for floating the slider. If
> you take this approach to the extreme, you might be able to get by with
> only one hole on each side of the base.
>
> Comments?
> --
> Roscoe Primrose
> -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
>
> "Once in a while you get shown the light
> In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
>
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: [teres] PL tonearm ideas...
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:18:03 +0200 (CEST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n707
On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, phclark wrote:
> OK. If there were a shallow channel(s) machined into the length of the
> bottom of the carriage slide above the air distribution holes that had
> machined "branches" leading out laterally from the main channel, this would
> ensure:
>
> 1. More even air distribution from a minimum of holes in the chassis plate
>
> 2. especially if the carriage slide were semi-circular rather than "V"
> shaped.
The even air distribution is not a problem. The idea is that when the air
holes are sufficiently small in diameter, the air flow through the holes
is unaffected by whether the carriage covers them or not. The only
"problem" if any, is that a slight whistling noise can be heard when the
edge of the carriage partially covers the larger "outer" hole.
A good idea is to make the carriage length correspond with the spacing of
the holes such that once the outer edge of the carriage has entirely
"uncovered" one hole, a new hole is simultaneously covered at the inner
edge.
But really, I don't see how any of this can be a considerable problem.
> I think the semi-circular carriage, which permits discarding the knife edge
> bearing, has great merit.
Yes, but then it's no longer such a simple project. And the floating
"V" profile makes it very simple to add mass or move the position of the
arm relative to the carriage - or even to experiment with a multitude of
different arms/bearings on the same carriage.
Tom
=========================================================================
From: "phclark" <phclark@uswest.net>
Subject: [JN] [teres] Rega Arm Purchase
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 09:17:04 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n513
Hiya Joes...
Many folks have asked about the Teres DIY turntable project. If you havn't
looked at http://reality.sgi.com/cbrady/audio/ lately you may enjoy
spending a few moments browsing the site.
Some of the Teres DIY project members (12) have banded together to make a
group purchase of the Origin Live modified Rega xxxB arm (xxx=250, 300,
etc...). Here is Origin Live's site for more
detail...http://www.originlive.com/ a good summary is in the FAQ section.
A suggestion was made to expand the group purchase to the "joenet" and
"Analogue Addicts
There is a 15% discount on the modifications for a group purchase of 10 -19
arms and a 25% discount on modifications for 20+ arms. There is no discount
for the arm itself BUT the price of $145.94US is very very good!!!
GBP
Less VAT
USD
Less 15%
Less 25%
Arm RB 250
£109.00
£92.77
$ 145.94
$ 145.94
$ 145.94
Structural
£75.00
£63.83
$ 100.42
$ 85.35
$ 75.31
Internal re-wire
£70.00
£59.57
$ 93.72
$ 79.66
$ 70.29
External re-wire
£70.00
£59.57
$ 93.72
$ 79.66
$ 70.29
Bronze phono plug
£20.00
£17.02
$ 26.78
$ 22.76
$ 20.08
ACTION REQUIRED:
If you want to participate in a Rega Group Purchase you must identify the
arm/mods you want and commit to your purchase by noon Tuesday, April 11,
2000
(Pacific daylight Time... or there abouts!).
Please email me privately bobobo@dowco.com
Include the following info...
I want to participate in the Rega O/L Group Purchase 10-19 units purchased
"AND/OR" 20+ units purchased
I want...[arm model/mods]
Ship to...[name/shipping address]
If you have further questions ask ASAP and we will try to answer ASAP!
"Estimated" Timeline... add grain of salt!
Order Deadline April 7, 2000
Group Purchase Viability April 7, 2000
Develop Cost April 9, 2000
Send Money for Purchase to "Teres Distribution Agent" April 21, 2000
Send Money to O/L April 21, 2000
O/L Receive Money April 23, 2000
O/L Processing Completed May 14, 2000
O/L Shipment Received June 7, 2000
Reshipped June 10, 2000
Received June 24, 2000
Shipping from Great Britain to the drop location (Colorado) is $5.80US for
each arm.
The arms will then be repackaged and reshipped at an additional expense to
the purchaser. Any additional cost for packaging will be calculated if the
project is viable.
Prices reflect NO VAT, payment to O/L will be in USD
No unmodified arms can be purchased from Origin Live (see email from O/L
below)
Purchases in UK can be drop shipped without going to the USA at an
additional charge and, of course, VAT... sorry folks!
***Note*** these prices are approximate and will be adjusted for currency
fluctuations once the bulk order is deemed viable.
Origin/Live's response to recent email
***Quote/Copy begins***
Mark Baker
Tel: 01703 442183
Fax: 01703 398905
E-mail: origin.live@virgin.net
Web Site: http://www.originlive.com
REGA GROUP PURCHASE QUESTIONS
#1. Can an unmodded arm be bought from O/L if a REGA dealer is available
nearby... what is nearby?
As mentioned previously we do not sell unmodified arms for a number of good
reasons.
#2. Does the discount apply to the Rega VTA? Does the discount apply to
cartridges?
[it applies to the VTA but not cartridges as we have no margin to play with
since we do not manufacture cartridges]
#3. How long is OL internal wire coming out of a tonearm tube?
[ the internal wire does not exit the bottom of the arm base as it is
soldered internally to the external wire at the base plug] ...
Can someone order an extra long length so they could connect this internal
wire to their pre-amp...if yes, the cost is?
[Yes they can - at an extra cost of £10 for any length. ]
There seems to be an idea going around at present that continuous wires are
an advantage - we have tried this and can only comment as follows...
The external screened cable we use is better than the internal wiring.
Internal wires must be very thin to avoid arm friction and are thus a
compromise - external cabling is uncompromised and the benefits of optimized
design far outweigh the benefits of avoiding a hard wired joint (hard wiring
is nothing like as degrading as contact joints or brass connectors etc. The
other problems of using the internal wiring externally is that the wires
should be configured at a set distance apart and screening is very costly.
Put another way - the ideal, is to request that the external cable is
continued all the way to the headshell (which is not possible of course due
to friction problems). Hopefully this may clarify that in our experience the
compromise cable is the internal wiring not the external and as said before
the joint is relatively insignificant in comparison to the effect of the
type of wire used (even over short lengths).
$4. Would all the arms be shipped bulk to one location or can one (some) be
shipped individually to different locations and still receive the discount?
[ individually shipped arms would each carry a £9 carriage charge]
#5. THE TRANSACTION...
Would the entire amount for the group purchase be required before work
began?
How long would an order of 20 arms require... the structural mod, internal
and external rewiring?
Are the orders payed in US dollars or British Pounds? Do you take VISA ?
[ we would require advance payment. The time would be approx 4 days of work.
It may take up to 10 days to get hold of the Rega arms as we do not have
quite this quantity in stock at present. US dollars or UK pounds GBP are
fine - please see not below
METHODS OF PAYMENT
a) Direct transfer to our bank (bank charges can be pricey see details
below).
b) Money order, or cashiers cheque ( By far the least expensive method).
c) Eurocheque.
d) Cash in £ pounds sterling sent in insured letter.
e) Send signed travellers cheques
If you wish to pay in American dollars or convert from other currencies,
please multiply prices by factors found in up to date foreign currency
conversion site at http://www.xe.net/currency/
We ourselves do not take credit cards at this time.
Make any cheques and payments out to "Origin Live" and send to address as
follows
Origin Live, 87 Chessel Crescent, Bitterne, Southampton SO19 4BT UK
If you wire a money transfer direct through your bank, then our bank details
are as follows (your bank will explain the procedure):-
Barclays Bank
Bitterne, Southampton Group,
PO Box 2, Southampton
SO14 2SB
UK
Bank Sort Code 20-79-29 Account No 80251100
We look forward to hearing from you.
***Quote/Copy Ends***
That's all folks!
Bill Mollard
(Bob.Obo)
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris" <tmackris@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [teres] Re: [JN] Antiskating : A tangential digression
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:42:46 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n685
Thomas,
I can vouch for Bernhard's comments with respect to interest in Ladegaard's
arm. I'll never run out of projects I have on the back burner.
Bernhard, your comment about wobble is intriguing and something I had in the
back of my mind for a while. I recall that Micro Seiki had a turntable which
allowed you to compensate for off-center record holes but never found out any
details about it
Regards,
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bernhard Kistner <bernhard.kistner@gmx.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 10:04 AM
Subject: [teres] Re: [JN] Antiskating : A tangential digression
Hello Thomas, hello all,
[large snip]
> In terms of stability and harmony between these two requirements,
> a large lateral mass would be like a massive mechanical decoupling,
> STABILIZING THE ARM'S MOMENTARY POSITION, isolating it from any signal
> related lateral forces otherwise acting on the arm. In principle, the
> lateral mass would not complicate the radial travel of the arm unless it
> grew to enormous proportions, as long as the friction is near zero.
Agreed as far as the record shows no wobble. But 1/3 of my records show
wobble.
Worse, side A shows different wobble to side B: amount and orientation of
excentricity has to be measured/marked on each record's side, atleast of the
most preferred ones.
The spindle diameter has to be around 3mm and the records clamp has to
provide excentricity compensation.
> Since tracking problems/distortion of the type we discuss are
> particularly relevant to the lateral suspension of the cartridge and
> particular to lateral motion of both arm and cantilever, I find
> Ladegaard's idea worth pursuing. I hope to blow the dust off it again some
> time, I haven't had it running in years. It's stunning value for money as
> a DIY project or as a tonearm at any rate. And it was never mass produced,
> and barely built at all outside Scandinavia. After almost ten years I know
> one other individual who built one apart from Ladegaard and myself,
> JP Garigon (a former JN member). Considering that it cost me less than $30
> to build it (+ pump, hose etc.) I'm puzzled at how few people seem to be
> enthusiastic about tangential arms.
Me, too!
> For years, Ladegaard tested and listened to countless pieces of phono
> playback equipment during the blooming 70's and 80's, and my impression is
> that he was as critical and unbiased about his own arm as with any other -
> and very enthusiastic about it both from a listening and measurement point
> of view.
Thomas, if you publish this design (with the inventor's permission, of
course
(Christian, klingelt's bei Dir?)) In am sure a lot of Joes and also people
on
the Teres-List will be mega-curious, and some may wish to try this thing
out.
Although I have two different linear trackers in mind currently, I might
join them!
[snip]
Greets,
Bernhard
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
Subject: Re: [teres] Re: [JN] Antiskating : A tangential digression
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:37:58 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n685
Thom Mackris wrote:
> Bernhard, your comment about wobble is intriguing and something I had in the
> back of my mind for a while. I recall that Micro Seiki had a turntable which
> allowed you to compensate for off-center record holes but never found out any
> details about it
>
It was Nakamichi not Micro. Not exactely a KISS solution.... ;-) Heard a demo
once, was convinced but lacked the necessary funds.....
Christian
Here are some pictures:
<http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/4133/nak-tx1000.jpg>
<http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/4133/nak-dract.jpg>
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris" <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [teres] Re: [JN] Antiskating : A tangential digression
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:55:13 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n685
Thank you Christian,
I knew that the company name ended with the letter "i" <grin>.
As we labor and obsess about getting the lateral bias correct, having speed
accuracy, along with optimizing all of the other setup parameters, the
concept of centering the record is an appealing one.
I wonder if it would be feasable to design some sort of record centering jig
for an existing turntable. If it were implemented, you would not be able to
use your existing record spindle - the theory being that the record hole is
not concentric with the record grooves.
Of course, this would require a turntable like the Roxan Xerxes where the
spindle is removed during record play, or our Teres which has removable,
interchangable spindles (threaded & unthreaded, for multiple clamp
compatibility).
You would then, of course lose the benefits of record clamping. It would be
an interesting tradeoff to explore.
Regards,
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
To: Joelist <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [teres] Re: [JN] Antiskating : A tangential digression
Thom Mackris wrote:
[ snip ]
>I recall that Micro Seiki had a turntable which allowed you to compensate
>for off-center record holes but never found out any details about it
It was Nakamichi not Micro. Not exactely a KISS solution.... ;-) Heard a
demo
once, was convinced but lacked the necessary funds.....
Christian
Here are some pictures:
<http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/4133/nak-tx1000.jpg>
<http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/4133/nak-dract.jpg>
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris" <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [teres] Re: [JN] Arm Damping
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:22:19 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n662
Don't ya hate all of this information?
In support of your approach, when I dial & break in a new cartridge, I start
with no damping. I figure it will exacerbate all of my setup errors, acting
as a magnifying glass, if you will. Once I think I have it set up, I dial
in damping to 'taste'.
Cheers,
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: phclark <phclark@uswest.net>
To: Thom Mackris <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
Cc: Pickwoad, Robert (Z75123) <RPICKWOA@apsc.com>; Analogue Addicts
<analogueaddicts@cableinet.co.uk>; Joe List <sound@lists.io.com>;
<phonogram@Graphics.Cornell.EDU>; Teres <teres@aiko.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 2:49 PM
Subject: [teres] Re: [JN] Arm Damping
Thanks, Thom.
Alas, I'm almost where I was before I asked the question(s), only better
informed. It gets down to, it almost always does, to plugging it in and
seeing if it works. Both sides of the issue have potent if not persuasive
arguments. I can only assume that Sumiko thought it was a good idea or they
wouldn't have gone to the trouble in the first place. The default position
is to set it all up without and see where that gets me. If angels do not
appear in the corners of the room, then on to Plan B. Excelsior.
Thanks to all for their helpful comments.
Peter C
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] Stands & Vibes
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:03:13 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n576
Hi All:
This thread reminds me of a review of speaker stands done by Michael
Gindi, sung to the tune of, "Mr. Sandman."
Mr. Standman, make me stand,
this speaker's shaking like an old ladies hand.
The bass is booming and the mid-range is bland
So Mr. Staaaaaaandmaaaan . . . .
Make me a staaaaaand . . . . . . . .
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] Teres Update (pictures!)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:47:04 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n585
Chris Brady wrote:
>> Hmmm, I think I may do that... then again, I like the way it looks now
>> anyway. What does he use for the fluid to machine the acrylic?? I need to
>> get some acrylic parts machined and are not quite sure of the right method
>> to do it (whether the fluid is necessary or not).
>>
>> Daus
> Bryce found that at high speeds the acrylic chips, resulting in a white
> somewhat rough finish. Too rough to be suitable for our purposes.
> He tried some different speeds to get the finish in the pictures.
> This seems to be a good compromise between smoothness and also
>leaving a frosted finish. Bead blasting should give you the finish you are
> looking for and also be quite smooth.
>
> Chris
Hi Guys:
The way to machine acrylic is with slightly negative cutting angle and
about a .025" radius on the tool with about 15 deg of relief *but* with the
relief taken negative by about 1-2 deg for about the first .005" to .015"
down the relieved face of the tool.
This way the tool scrapes rather than chips and the small amount of
negative relief burnishes rather than letting the tool cut clean. By this
method as-machined surfaces smooth enough to pass blood without so
much as hanging up a cell can be produced.
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris" <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: [teres] TQWP's on Ebay
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:03:12 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n692
Duh ... the URL would help I suppose <g> Here you go ....
<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=466827948>
Cheers,
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Thom Mackris <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
To: Joe List <sound@lists.io.com>; Teres_List <teres@aiko.com>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 4:52 PM
Subject: [teres] TQWP's on Ebay
I just saw these on ebay. Usual disclaimer ... I have no personal interest in
this transaction ... just passing it along.
Swiss ACR 103 driver - looks like some company which modifies Fostex FE 103's
It looks like there were little munchkins with curious fingers (dimples on the
dust caps).
Cheers,
Thom
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella" <tmackris@earthlink.net>
Subject: [JN] Teres Turntable - A Group Project
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:49:02 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n426
Hi Joes,
Chris Brady and I were musing one evening last November about building a
Scheu turntable. After playing around for a month or so, a completely
original design began to evolve through the collective input of six or seven
individuals. On Chris' home page is some fairly extensive background
information about the design: http://reality.sgi.com/cbrady_denver/audio/
There are also platter and bearing drawings as well as consolidated e-mail
"digests" pertaining to the bearing design. This digest consists of
approximately 200 e-mails over the last month. Then there's Chris at play.
Check out "Teres The Movie" if you're inclined to load a 1.5 megabyte mpeg
file.
The reason I'm posting this is twofold. (1) As a thank you to all of you
Joes out there who have entertained and educated us over the last couple of
years and to give you an opportunity to get in on the "deal". (2) As a
solicitation for comments and criticism on our design.
We have currently hit the critical mass that we hoped to reach in order to
make the project work. We have 11 individuals (including Jeremy Epstein,
BTW) which will get our cost for a stainless steel bearing and (3" thick
acrylic) platter down to the $220 to $240 range. Administering additional
requests will certainly be an "effort", but Chris and I would be happy to
invite others who are inclined on board.
We experienced an incredible stroke of luck in this project. Chris' brother
is a CNC machinist and for quite some time, he had specialized in making
bearings for computer disk drives. When Chris was recounting our e-mail
discussions to his brother, he brought up topics ranging from viscuous oil
damping of the bearing to low inertia motors. His brother was continually
finishing Chris' sentences for him. Chris said that he could have sworn
that his brother had hacked into our e-mail. We got the right guy for the
job. The fact that we had a sympathetic ear resulted in him agreeing to
machine the platters too, and when you see the drawings, you'll be able to
appreciate why we were so excited about this.
Since this is *not* intended to be a money making proposition, it is highly
unlikely that we will ever do this project again (never say never <grin>).
We learned from Chris's brother that if he had to fire up the lathe to do a
single bearing and platter in the future, the price would be in the $550.00
range - over $300.00 more than the unit price we are expecting to pay on the
group buy. Although I truly believe that this design has the potential to
result in a world class turntable, I can't guess who might be willing to pay
the "one-off" price. More than likely, critical mass would end up being 6
people in terms of a price people were willing to pay for a relatively
unknown quantity.
Currently, our plan is to determine the order count by the middle of
February in order to establish a price. We hope to have the bearings and
platters machined by the middle of March.
We are currently hashing out a DC motor controller design. If anyone is
interested in following or contributing to this dialog, I'd be happy to put
you on our "mini" mailing list, unless this proves to be of general
interest, in which case, I'll copy this list.
The intent is to build the initial subchassis and armboard out of MDF,
although later we might end up using more exotic materials such as acrylic,
corian, polished stone or some material yet to be determined. Because this
component does not have to be machined to high tolerance standards, it is
being left to the individual's aesthetic sensibilities. Proposed (ray
traced) designs will be appearing on the web site as we begin to work them
out however. Most builders will be seating the subchassis on a sandbox
which will be further isolated and supported by air bladders.
Well, there you have it! Thanks for the bandwidth.
In service to Joes everywhere ...
Thom
=========================================================================
From: "Mackris, Thom G." <tgmackris@vicorpinc.com>
Subject: [JN] Teres Turntable Project Update
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:41:40 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n473
All,
The response to our turntable project has been far greater than Chris
Brady or I had ever imagined. We're both feeling like Mickey Mouse in the
Dukas' "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" scene in the movie Fantasia. I can't
believe that this project began with some idle musings in early December and
that we're on schedule to be spinning vinyl by the end of May.
The Joe List community is so special and I'm truly happy that we could
share our efforts with everyone. I can fully appreciate the TAD driver
recovery project that Paul Butterfield has undertaken. It is efforts like
this which have inspired us to open this project to the Joe List community
in the first place.
We have a problem however ... We're burning out and we don't have time
to listen to music anymore :-(( This project is beginning to stretch the
concept of hobbiest at the seams. We have been receiving a trickle of
inquiries and have been bending over backwards to accomodate new
participants, but we've reached the point where we have had to close the
door on further orders for *this* run of bearings & platters. There are
currently over 40 participants in the bearing & platter order which has just
gone off to Chris's brother Bryce - the CNC machinist.
The good news is that there is obviously interest in a project like
this. Chris is more than happy to collect e-mail addresses for future
orders. At one time, I had my doubts about being able to say the
following, but I fully anticipate that we'll be doing a small run again in
8-12 months. I doubt the price will ever be as killer as it will be for
this run because we're amortizing the setup expense over 40+ units. I've
learned that setting up a CNC machining run is a much higher proportion of
the production expense than the actual programming is. These setup costs
occur for each run (as opposed to the one-time programming expenses) and
they have to be amortized over the cost of *each* run.
Current Project Status:
Work is now being finalized on the motor / controller / pulley.
Manfred Huber has generously offered to help adapt the Maxon motor
controller he designed for his Scheu to our project. Manfred and Chris are
working on the micro code for this. Ron Welborne will be facilitating the
printed circuit board design.
We are currently hashing out our thoughts on subchassis design where we
expect a lot of divergance based on personal sense of aesthetics, vibration
damping and siting of the turntable (some of us are fortunate enough to have
a concrete floor<g>).
Following the Progress of the Project:
You may not aware of this, but Roscoe has kindly offered to administer
a majordomo mailing list on his server. Everyone is welcome to participate
in the dialog. Intructions for signing up to the list are on Chris'
website:
http://reality.sgi.com/cbrady_denver/audio/
I love this stuff !!
Looking forward to meeting you all at NY Noise next week ...
Thom
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@transport.sa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [JN] Teres Turntable Project Update
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 09:24:50 +1030
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n473
Simply magnificent! One day you will look back on this and feel very smug.
I agree that the shift from talking to walking can be a shock!
Grant Sellek
Adelaide, Australia
grant.sellek@transport.sa.gov.au
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mackris, Thom G. [mailto:tgmackris@vicorpinc.com]
The response to our turntable project has been far greater than Chris
Brady or I had ever imagined. We're both feeling like Mickey Mouse in the
Dukas' "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" scene in the movie Fantasia......
We have a problem however ... We're burning out and we don't have time
to listen to music anymore :-(( This project is beginning to stretch the
concept of hobbiest at the seams.
................snip>>
=========================================================================
From: "Bernhard Kistner" <bernhard.kistner@gmx.net>
Subject: [JN] [teres] was: Hair Brained Idea # 33.3 ; record washing machine
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:49:17 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n729
Hello John, hello all,
record cleasing even of new records is vital because the record has still
its mould release agents in its grooves. If the MRA can be removed, the
sound is unleashed!
Apart from that, you have a chance to get 40-years-old whisky, ketchup,
mustard, lipstick, fingerprints, ... , off the record, but this is a second
war theatre.
> OK, here's an off the wall idea. I was wondering if anyone had ever
> seen discussion of an ultrasonic record cleaner. (OK, this could be
> tube related.... I have a couple of elderly units using sweep tubes)
No, it is a good idea. Just the drawbacks kept me from using it.
> Working in the medical equipment repair biz, I run across utrasonic
> cleaners on a regular basis. I have a good unit at home, in which
> I clean model aircraft engines, electronic parts, my eye glass frames,
> prep silver soldering joints, etc, etc. With a good unit (LNR brand
> cleaners seem to be the best value, IMHO) you can stick your dirty
> finger in their and immediately see a cloud of dirt start coming off.
> Here I caution you with some of these units, not to put your finger in
> into an ultrasonic unit unless you are familiar with it's power levels.
> With my fairly health LNR, you get a tickle as you put the tip of the
> finger in. But when you get that first joint of the finger submerged,
> LOOK OUT !!! It feels like someone is crushing your finger in a pair
> of vice grips. Some of these units will really disturb those joints
> and no telling what damage they may do.
>
> Has anyone considered or seen discussion of cleaning records with these
> things?
yes, me. Some years ago, I decided to build a record cleansing machine and
made different experiments how this could work. An ultrasonic tub was
definitely my favourite solution, but it later was equalled my another way
to do it.
> Of course, some will opine that the surface of the record/grooves
> would be damaged. I guess one could take two new and detailed
> records and clean one for ten hours and compare. I know that you
> can dip a piece of aluminum foil in a healthy ultrasonic cleaner
> and it will put hundreds of little pin holes in the foil. But, do
> you think/know it would damage vinyl ? Should clean the hell out of them
!!!
The drawbacks of the ultrasonic tub:
1.record handling: how to rotate the record through the tub and sucking it
dry later?
2.costs: US$2000 for a tub big enough back then and no centyet spent on the
handling system
3.pressing bubbles: if the are close to the surface, the ultrasonic **will**
open them. And then your stylus may suddelny decide that this very pressing
bubble will make a good home for it in the future.
Happened three times during my short experiments.
4.labels: the record label will be damaged or washed off.
5. A competing cleansing procedure showed equally good results without
having the ultrasonic tub'S drawbacks.
> I envisioned robbing the electronics/transducers off a working unit
> and building a narrow tank with one transducer on each long side.
> I would suspend, vertically, the LP, with the solution level up to the
> lead-out grooves. You could slowly rotate the LP with a little
> selsyn motor, maybe.
Apart from the ultrasonic, this was the way my disc washer was built.
I had a very narrow tub containing only 150cm³ of cleansing fluid. This was
slideable up and down on cheap drawer linear ball races. It would slide over
the record up to the lead-out grooves. This tub had very strong, fine-haired
brushes inside which brushed the grooves following exactly the groove
direction, of course.
The spindle on which the record was clamped was horizontally oriented and
had a **VERY** strong gearbox, (delivering a torque of about 10 to 15 Nm)
rotating the record at about 2 rpm.
The machine had 2 rotatable vacuum yokes to suck the record dry within one
single revolution.
During the cleansing process, the record would never dry up. I think this is
very important.
The prototype managed to wash 20 records per hour. I used 100% isopropylic
alcohol for washing, but also double-distilled water with wetting agent (no,
please do not use photoflo, not good enough; the stuff the semiconductor
industry uses for water based solutions should be appropriate).
For audiophile purposes the water-based washing was unavoidable, it gave
back a soothness which disappeared with the alcolhol
The prototype also managed to wash 1 records per hour with an incredible
washing result: several times I could wash a record from G- to VG+++ or NM-,
if only polluted and not also damaged.
But I must say: this is not a living-room disc washer. Too loud.
The prototype hase gone for long. But if there is enough interest and money,
and you Joes and Teresians poke me enough, I may build a small count of this
for you (and for me!). But not before coming August; until then I am
occupied in another project for Aarhus 2001.
Greets,
Bernhard
phone (office) +49 (0)89 120 22 0
phone (desk) +49 (0)89 120 22 302
phone (home) +49 (0)89 3000 22 75
eMail_office bki@helbling.de
eMail_home1 bernhard.kistner@gmx.net
eMail_home2 bernhard.kistner@t-online.de
=========================================================================
From: "Thom Mackris" <thom_mackris@hotmail.com>
Subject: [JN] Teres - WIDL6M
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 13:03:40 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n598
WIDL6M (L6M = Last 6 Months). Teres turntable project.
Wow! We're really getting close! Approximately 50 platters & bearings will
be delivered to the group over the course of the next week.
Chris Brady, my main partner in crime received the first bearing and
platter and has put together a *very* temporary lash-up. A picture is on
his website:
http://reality.sgi.com/cbrady_denver/audio/
As we debug our designs, the pictures will be updated. The current lash-up
is the first picture on the "Teres DIY Turntable" link.
The base design is not apparent from the picture. A 2" x 4" (approx.)
hollow aluminum tube runs from the bearing to the armboard mount. This tube
is filled with lead shot and bound together with polyester resin. A small
section is damped with mineral oil and lead shot.
The visible 3/16" aluminum plate is intended to seat inside of a sandbox
which will further act as a vibration sink. I'm sure as we get our 'tables
up and running, that local Joes everywhere (there are nearly 50 of us) will
be reporting their findings and providing pictures for *their*
interpretation of The Teres. Currently, Teres ownership distribution is
heavily concentrated in the Mountain states (8 in the Denver Front Range
alone, 1 in Libby MT, a few in Phoenix, AZ), Oregon, HI, and the East Coast
(heavy concentration in NY, NJ) and VA. A couple are headed to Australia.
The group is deeply in Manfred Huber's debt for contributing the design of
his way cool Maxon (DC) motor controller design.
Additional thanks go out to Chris' brother Bryce, the CNC machinest without
whom, this project would have never gotten off the ground. Bryce's
attention to detail and his perfectionist approach added immeasurable value
to the project. I doubt we could have found a machinist more suited to the
task. One of Bryce's main areas of specialty is in bearing assemblies for
computer disk drives! This man knows his bearings !!
Roscoe is also owed a special thanks for setting up a Teres mailing list on
his majordomo server. This really alleviated the burden of maintaining an
e-mail distribution list as this project grew in numbers beyond our wildest
expectations.
Cheers,
Thom
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: [JN] Terrorism from a Full Perspective
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:47:40 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n969
Inherently governments are incapable of public candor. We cannot look to
them for a profound or disinterested public analysis of issues. They are
allegiant to an agenda and attempt to conserve the very values by which
they achieved political control of the ship of state.
Nor can we turn to popular journalism, especially of the electronic kind,
to deepen our understanding. Journalism has been steadily merging with
entertainment and corporate interests. In the past newspapers tended to
represent the values of the families that owned them, but increasingly
they have become lobbyists for the perspectives of their corporate
interests. And those interests seem to survive changes of congressional
and presidential party control, and they manage to govern our foreign
policy through all the vicissitudes of private control and faint public
debate of national policy.
Having been involved in probing the issues of terrorism three decades and
more ago, I am struck by the superficiality of discussions of what has
happened to the world in the last three days. In the early sixties the
late Peter George's novel _Red Alert_ caused a ripple in think-tank
circles when it was discovered that its scenario of mutual nuclear
annihilation by mishap could not be avoided by the procedures then in
place by either the United States or Russia. You probably know this novel
by its 1964 film name, _Dr. Strangelove, or How I Stopped Worrying and
Learned to Love the Bomb_. Dr. Strangelove, quite openly, was modelled on
Henry Kissinger, one of the most dangerous and evil men of the last
century.
A few years later the Institute for Strategic Studies held an
international conference in London addressing the issues of war and peace
in a parlous age. The consensus, it may surprise you, was that the
looming threat to humanity issued not from the prospect of internecine war
but from cat-out-of-the-bag terrorism. I explain.
Nations, for all their bluster and vileness, tend to conduct their affairs
of state rationally. What keeps them in check is the vulnerability of
their assets. The threat of nuclear destruction added a new caution to
the conduct of international policy. No longer could wars of adventure be
waged without the risk that their consequences could escalate beyond
rational control.
The nuclear factor, however, swings another way for terrorists. Consider
that if it need not be delivered by mean of a sophisticated vehicle, a
nuclear bomb large enough to destroy a vertical metropolis like New York
City can be carried by one man in two suitcases. As nuclear weapons
proliferate, and are developed by smaller and smaller nations, the
possibility that dictators in small republics would abdicate not with the
crown jewels but with a few nuclear weapons to be sold on the black market
looms. In the hands of a pirate such a weapon would constitute the
supreme means of shaking down mankind. What if a terrorist group held NYC
hostage to a nuclear threat? And what if, ransom demands having been
denied, NYC poofed off the map. The next day a thousand ransom notes
would arrive in the cities of the world. And when that second city
vaporized, mankind would arrive at a circumstance that no collective will,
concerted effort, or unified campaign could avert. We would go back to
rocks and bones as tools of subsistence.
Doubtless we need to grieve for the victims of these aeronautical bombs,
and mourn for a bit over our loss of innocence. But we need also to
consider that recovery of our innocence is neither possible nor desirable.
Here's why.
We are horrified by these suicide bombers. We consider them cowards and
criminals against mankind of an order unimagined until now. But consider
that U. S. bombers deliberately tested the mechanism of the firestorm over
Tokyo after our saturation bombing of Dresden in WWII produced thermal
effects orders of magnitude in excess of the combustibles dropped on the
city. It took a second effort on the residential boroughs of Tokyo for us
to ignite a genuine firestorm, but we succeeded, with a loss of life
variously estimated at 100,000, 200,000, and 500,000 depending on which
authority one consults. Our U.S. crews knowingly inflicted far greater
damage, damage beyond the symbolic, on innocent civilians. Were they
heroes or villains?
What motivates these Arabic suicide bombers? Well, principle. No power
on earth has governed conduct among Arabic nations in the last half
century more than the United States. And our treatment of these nations
has been highly selective. Some of the most repressive regimes, like
Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, blessed with that most favorite of American
fluids, petroleum, have received special privileges. And such as Iran,
where for years we financed a corrupt Shah, was first our lap darling, and
then a rabid junkyard dog. Sadam Hussein was our darling of
Middle-Eastern democracy twenty years ago, granting suffrage to women,
until he did several deeds not to our liking, among them attempting to
reclaim land historically part of Iraq and ceded to a Kuwaiti prince by a
British colonel.
But nothing sticks in the Arabic craw like the U.S. financing and
sponsoring of the terrorist state of Israel, where the ethnic polices of
Apartheid are visited upon the ancient enemy of the Jews, the Philistines
of the Bible, now called Palestinians. It takes rather a twisted logic to
find the aspirations of Palestinians for life, liberty, a homeland, and
self-determination in their own land, to be illegitimate. Yet America
continues to allow Israelis to perpetrate the very crimes upon
Palestinians that Jews suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany and Austria
during WWII. To many in the world the Holocaust industry has been used to
confer upon Jews a special victimhood that licenses any means in the
pursuit of Zionist ambitions.
It is not simply America's hypocrisy of professing the virtues of
democracy while working actively to subvert it in Southeast Asia, in
Central America, in Chile, but not least in sacrificing Arabic-speaking
peoples in the course of pursuing a pro-Israeli policy and averting its
eyes while Israel punishes twentyfold each death caused by Palestinians
they deem monstrously ungrateful for being held hostage in their own land.
All the while American media, from film to TV to print journalism,
relentlessly serve the Washington line that Arabs and Islamites are
fanatics possessed by inhuman values who lack respect for human life and
human institutions.
Better than revenge would be a recharting of our course as a nation, so
that we cease our policy of differential treatment of various peoples, and
begin to work towards universal equality and justice. Were we to do so, I
imagine the suicide bombers who understandably but unforgivably harmed so
many innocents would have been willing to lay their lives down to protect
us.
It is powerlessness and frustration that creates the Osama bin Ladens and
his followers. Probably they are no more mad than the many soldiers who
fight and die valiantly in causes in which they believe. Probably it is
justice that they seek. Their resort to terrorism is not a first choice
but a last. And it is we who labor, whether wish to acknowledge so or
not, to constrict their choices.
As a matter of common sense, however, the American government cannot turn
its other cheek, at least not officially. It must return blood for
blood. Not to do so is to confess that terrrorism can succeed with a
superpower as an instrument of policy. A horrible catch-22.
Still, a taste for revenge is a bitter milk to feed babies. It condemns
them to reenact the sins of their ancestors.
Consider that the nuclear genie is not yet out of the terrorist
bottle. Indeed, it is the threat of the nuclear imp run amok that
constitutes Secretary Colin Powell's trump card as he calls on such
dangerous countries as Pakistan to consider their potential status as the
victim of a nuclear terrorist.
Alas, we may not have seen the worst. The WTC destruction, awful as it is
in human terms, may be but a prelude to an ever more unthinkable ceremony
of innocence. The message these terrorists were sending is not the
message we have been reading. If we care for our children, and for their
children, we will work to refashion our national politics. We no longer
have the luxury of strutting for having outlasted Ronald Reagan's Evil
Empire in horrible and wasteful arms race. We all have work to do, and it
does not consist in staying home and nursing our anger, our fear, or our
disdain for the world.
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Terrorism from a Full Perspective
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:42:18 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n970
Here! Here! Douglas! Amen!
The same folks who would justify and approve of slaves in Haiti murdering
their white masters for freedom, or who would have encouraged slaves in the
South to rise up and murder their masters, now are the same ones standing
guard over Israel which took away these people's land and now treat them like
slaves and deny them basic human rights, and calling 'abolitionist' people
like me a 'neo-nazi'. And for the record, I DON'T justify what happened, but
I'm afraid we are going to dig ourselves a deeper hole with all our arrogance
and 'gung-ho'attitude. We need to be VERY careful!
btw, didn't we have a popular Iranian leader assassinated back in the 50's or
60's (we had the British do our dirty work) all because he was encouraging his
people to ask for more than pennies a barrel for their oil? Then we put the
Shaw in control so he would continue to sell us cheap oil at the expense of
the average person in Iran. I know this hurts, and that my views are
unpopular, but so were a lot of other people - that doesn't mean that they
might be any less true and accurate.
This is the last I'm going to say on the matter, but we should not be
surprised to wake up on morning soon and see a mushroom cloud instead of an
airliner.
Steve
Douglas Purl wrote:
> Inherently governments are incapable of public candor. We cannot look to
> them for a profound or disinterested public analysis of issues. They are
> allegiant to an agenda and attempt to conserve the very values by which
> they achieved political control of the ship of state.
>
> Nor can we turn to popular journalism, especially of the electronic kind,
> to deepen our understanding. Journalism has been steadily merging with
> entertainment and corporate interests. In the past newspapers tended to
> represent the values of the families that owned them, but increasingly
> they have become lobbyists for the perspectives of their corporate
> interests. And those interests seem to survive changes of congressional
> and presidential party control, and they manage to govern our foreign
> policy through all the vicissitudes of private control and faint public
> debate of national policy.
>
> Having been involved in probing the issues of terrorism three decades and
> more ago, I am struck by the superficiality of discussions of what has
> happened to the world in the last three days. In the early sixties the
> late Peter George's novel _Red Alert_ caused a ripple in think-tank
> circles when it was discovered that its scenario of mutual nuclear
> annihilation by mishap could not be avoided by the procedures then in
> place by either the United States or Russia. You probably know this novel
> by its 1964 film name, _Dr. Strangelove, or How I Stopped Worrying and
> Learned to Love the Bomb_. Dr. Strangelove, quite openly, was modelled on
> Henry Kissinger, one of the most dangerous and evil men of the last
> century.
>
> A few years later the Institute for Strategic Studies held an
> international conference in London addressing the issues of war and peace
> in a parlous age. The consensus, it may surprise you, was that the
> looming threat to humanity issued not from the prospect of internecine war
> but from cat-out-of-the-bag terrorism. I explain.
>
> Nations, for all their bluster and vileness, tend to conduct their affairs
> of state rationally. What keeps them in check is the vulnerability of
> their assets. The threat of nuclear destruction added a new caution to
> the conduct of international policy. No longer could wars of adventure be
> waged without the risk that their consequences could escalate beyond
> rational control.
>
> The nuclear factor, however, swings another way for terrorists. Consider
> that if it need not be delivered by mean of a sophisticated vehicle, a
> nuclear bomb large enough to destroy a vertical metropolis like New York
> City can be carried by one man in two suitcases. As nuclear weapons
> proliferate, and are developed by smaller and smaller nations, the
> possibility that dictators in small republics would abdicate not with the
> crown jewels but with a few nuclear weapons to be sold on the black market
> looms. In the hands of a pirate such a weapon would constitute the
> supreme means of shaking down mankind. What if a terrorist group held NYC
> hostage to a nuclear threat? And what if, ransom demands having been
> denied, NYC poofed off the map. The next day a thousand ransom notes
> would arrive in the cities of the world. And when that second city
> vaporized, mankind would arrive at a circumstance that no collective will,
> concerted effort, or unified campaign could avert. We would go back to
> rocks and bones as tools of subsistence.
>
> Doubtless we need to grieve for the victims of these aeronautical bombs,
> and mourn for a bit over our loss of innocence. But we need also to
> consider that recovery of our innocence is neither possible nor desirable.
> Here's why.
>
> We are horrified by these suicide bombers. We consider them cowards and
> criminals against mankind of an order unimagined until now. But consider
> that U. S. bombers deliberately tested the mechanism of the firestorm over
> Tokyo after our saturation bombing of Dresden in WWII produced thermal
> effects orders of magnitude in excess of the combustibles dropped on the
> city. It took a second effort on the residential boroughs of Tokyo for us
> to ignite a genuine firestorm, but we succeeded, with a loss of life
> variously estimated at 100,000, 200,000, and 500,000 depending on which
> authority one consults. Our U.S. crews knowingly inflicted far greater
> damage, damage beyond the symbolic, on innocent civilians. Were they
> heroes or villains?
>
> What motivates these Arabic suicide bombers? Well, principle. No power
> on earth has governed conduct among Arabic nations in the last half
> century more than the United States. And our treatment of these nations
> has been highly selective. Some of the most repressive regimes, like
> Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, blessed with that most favorite of American
> fluids, petroleum, have received special privileges. And such as Iran,
> where for years we financed a corrupt Shah, was first our lap darling, and
> then a rabid junkyard dog. Sadam Hussein was our darling of
> Middle-Eastern democracy twenty years ago, granting suffrage to women,
> until he did several deeds not to our liking, among them attempting to
> reclaim land historically part of Iraq and ceded to a Kuwaiti prince by a
> British colonel.
>
> But nothing sticks in the Arabic craw like the U.S. financing and
> sponsoring of the terrorist state of Israel, where the ethnic polices of
> Apartheid are visited upon the ancient enemy of the Jews, the Philistines
> of the Bible, now called Palestinians. It takes rather a twisted logic to
> find the aspirations of Palestinians for life, liberty, a homeland, and
> self-determination in their own land, to be illegitimate. Yet America
> continues to allow Israelis to perpetrate the very crimes upon
> Palestinians that Jews suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany and Austria
> during WWII. To many in the world the Holocaust industry has been used to
> confer upon Jews a special victimhood that licenses any means in the
> pursuit of Zionist ambitions.
>
> It is not simply America's hypocrisy of professing the virtues of
> democracy while working actively to subvert it in Southeast Asia, in
> Central America, in Chile, but not least in sacrificing Arabic-speaking
> peoples in the course of pursuing a pro-Israeli policy and averting its
> eyes while Israel punishes twentyfold each death caused by Palestinians
> they deem monstrously ungrateful for being held hostage in their own land.
> All the while American media, from film to TV to print journalism,
> relentlessly serve the Washington line that Arabs and Islamites are
> fanatics possessed by inhuman values who lack respect for human life and
> human institutions.
>
> Better than revenge would be a recharting of our course as a nation, so
> that we cease our policy of differential treatment of various peoples, and
> begin to work towards universal equality and justice. Were we to do so, I
> imagine the suicide bombers who understandably but unforgivably harmed so
> many innocents would have been willing to lay their lives down to protect
> us.
>
> It is powerlessness and frustration that creates the Osama bin Ladens and
> his followers. Probably they are no more mad than the many soldiers who
> fight and die valiantly in causes in which they believe. Probably it is
> justice that they seek. Their resort to terrorism is not a first choice
> but a last. And it is we who labor, whether wish to acknowledge so or
> not, to constrict their choices.
>
> As a matter of common sense, however, the American government cannot turn
> its other cheek, at least not officially. It must return blood for
> blood. Not to do so is to confess that terrrorism can succeed with a
> superpower as an instrument of policy. A horrible catch-22.
>
> Still, a taste for revenge is a bitter milk to feed babies. It condemns
> them to reenact the sins of their ancestors.
>
> Consider that the nuclear genie is not yet out of the terrorist
> bottle. Indeed, it is the threat of the nuclear imp run amok that
> constitutes Secretary Colin Powell's trump card as he calls on such
> dangerous countries as Pakistan to consider their potential status as the
> victim of a nuclear terrorist.
>
> Alas, we may not have seen the worst. The WTC destruction, awful as it is
> in human terms, may be but a prelude to an ever more unthinkable ceremony
> of innocence. The message these terrorists were sending is not the
> message we have been reading. If we care for our children, and for their
> children, we will work to refashion our national politics. We no longer
> have the luxury of strutting for having outlasted Ronald Reagan's Evil
> Empire in horrible and wasteful arms race. We all have work to do, and it
> does not consist in staying home and nursing our anger, our fear, or our
> disdain for the world.
>
> Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Terrorism from a Full Perspective
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:07:22 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n970
You build a country with guns?
>>>The US GAVE the palestinians VEHICLES GUNS and an AIRPORT to build their
country.
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Alex Shaltiel <shalt@paradigmgeo.com>
To: "'Steve Van Osdell'" <svanos@queencity.com>, Douglas Purl
<dcp@selway.umt.edu>, Joe List <sound@lists.io.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Terrorism from a Full Perspective
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:56:20 +0200
>
> The same folks who would justify and approve of slaves in
> Haiti murdering
> their white masters for freedom, or who would have encouraged
> slaves in the
> South to rise up and murder their masters, now are the same
> ones standing
> guard over Israel which took away these people's land and now
> treat them like
> slaves and deny them basic human rights, and calling
> 'abolitionist' people
Taking there land indeed
go to several history books gentlemen,
ask was there ever a palestinian state? - No
was there ever a palestinain Capital? - No
How many times does Jerusalem appear in the Koraan? - Null/zero 0
Was there and IS there a distinct palestinian culture which makes them a
people? - No they are arabs,
70% of the people of Jordan are palestinians, and a threat to the Jordanian
monarch.
Israel GAVE the palestinians LAND originaly belonging to Jordan and Egypt.
The US GAVE the palestinians VEHICLES GUNS and an AIRPORT to build their
country.
Both Israel and the palestinians SIGNED agreements and contracts for peace
where
both Israel and especialy the US are on the GIVING side. and palestinians
are on the TAKING.
The palestinian leadres embezeld some of the money given to them into secret
swiss accounts.
Palestinians have a low standard of living in western world standards, but
have the highest compared
to their brothers in arab countries, this is due to the success of Israel
who supplies Jobs and buisness
opportunities to them. (aka mexico)
There was peace on the land for a handfull of years, then the palestinians
went on there next step
of destroying israel and started an all out terrorism war,
There are at least one suicide bomber/car per week, they target children
women in the restaurants
shopping malls blow whole buses,
while Israel gets condemmed for trying to stop the butchers using helicopter
guns.
The palestinians tore every paragraph in the contracts they have ever
signed,
Its a culture war,
Yes egypt has officialy condemmed the horrible attack on the US, but Cairo
streets are celibrating.
Blaming israel is like blaming a woman who was just being raped for its her
fault for being so attractive.
and on taking there land subject, I suggest returning texas to mexico, and
the rest to the indians.
> like me a 'neo-nazi'. And for the record, I DON'T justify
> what happened, but
> I'm afraid we are going to dig ourselves a deeper hole with
> all our arrogance
> and 'gung-ho'attitude. We need to be VERY careful!
>
> btw, didn't we have a popular Iranian leader assassinated
> back in the 50's or
> 60's (we had the British do our dirty work) all because he
> was encouraging his
> people to ask for more than pennies a barrel for their oil?
> Then we put the
> Shaw in control so he would continue to sell us cheap oil at
> the expense of
> the average person in Iran. I know this hurts, and that my views are
> unpopular, but so were a lot of other people - that doesn't
> mean that they
> might be any less true and accurate.
>
> This is the last I'm going to say on the matter, but we should not be
> surprised to wake up on morning soon and see a mushroom cloud
> instead of an
> airliner.
>
> Steve
>
> Douglas Purl wrote:
>
> > Inherently governments are incapable of public candor. We
> cannot look to
> > them for a profound or disinterested public analysis of
> issues. They are
> > allegiant to an agenda and attempt to conserve the very
> values by which
> > they achieved political control of the ship of state.
> >
> > Nor can we turn to popular journalism, especially of the
> electronic kind,
> > to deepen our understanding. Journalism has been steadily
> merging with
> > entertainment and corporate interests. In the past
> newspapers tended to
> > represent the values of the families that owned them, but
> increasingly
> > they have become lobbyists for the perspectives of their corporate
> > interests. And those interests seem to survive changes of
> congressional
> > and presidential party control, and they manage to govern
> our foreign
> > policy through all the vicissitudes of private control and
> faint public
> > debate of national policy.
> >
> > Having been involved in probing the issues of terrorism
> three decades and
> > more ago, I am struck by the superficiality of discussions
> of what has
> > happened to the world in the last three days. In the early
> sixties the
> > late Peter George's novel _Red Alert_ caused a ripple in think-tank
> > circles when it was discovered that its scenario of mutual nuclear
> > annihilation by mishap could not be avoided by the
> procedures then in
> > place by either the United States or Russia. You probably
> know this novel
> > by its 1964 film name, _Dr. Strangelove, or How I Stopped
> Worrying and
> > Learned to Love the Bomb_. Dr. Strangelove, quite openly,
> was modelled on
> > Henry Kissinger, one of the most dangerous and evil men of the last
> > century.
> >
> > A few years later the Institute for Strategic Studies held an
> > international conference in London addressing the issues of
> war and peace
> > in a parlous age. The consensus, it may surprise you, was that the
> > looming threat to humanity issued not from the prospect of
> internecine war
> > but from cat-out-of-the-bag terrorism. I explain.
> >
> > Nations, for all their bluster and vileness, tend to
> conduct their affairs
> > of state rationally. What keeps them in check is the
> vulnerability of
> > their assets. The threat of nuclear destruction added a
> new caution to
> > the conduct of international policy. No longer could wars
> of adventure be
> > waged without the risk that their consequences could escalate beyond
> > rational control.
> >
> > The nuclear factor, however, swings another way for
> terrorists. Consider
> > that if it need not be delivered by mean of a sophisticated
> vehicle, a
> > nuclear bomb large enough to destroy a vertical metropolis
> like New York
> > City can be carried by one man in two suitcases. As nuclear weapons
> > proliferate, and are developed by smaller and smaller nations, the
> > possibility that dictators in small republics would
> abdicate not with the
> > crown jewels but with a few nuclear weapons to be sold on
> the black market
> > looms. In the hands of a pirate such a weapon would constitute the
> > supreme means of shaking down mankind. What if a terrorist
> group held NYC
> > hostage to a nuclear threat? And what if, ransom demands
> having been
> > denied, NYC poofed off the map. The next day a thousand
> ransom notes
> > would arrive in the cities of the world. And when that second city
> > vaporized, mankind would arrive at a circumstance that no
> collective will,
> > concerted effort, or unified campaign could avert. We
> would go back to
> > rocks and bones as tools of subsistence.
> >
> > Doubtless we need to grieve for the victims of these
> aeronautical bombs,
> > and mourn for a bit over our loss of innocence. But we need also to
> > consider that recovery of our innocence is neither possible
> nor desirable.
> > Here's why.
> >
> > We are horrified by these suicide bombers. We consider
> them cowards and
> > criminals against mankind of an order unimagined until now.
> But consider
> > that U. S. bombers deliberately tested the mechanism of the
> firestorm over
> > Tokyo after our saturation bombing of Dresden in WWII
> produced thermal
> > effects orders of magnitude in excess of the combustibles
> dropped on the
> > city. It took a second effort on the residential boroughs
> of Tokyo for us
> > to ignite a genuine firestorm, but we succeeded, with a loss of life
> > variously estimated at 100,000, 200,000, and 500,000
> depending on which
> > authority one consults. Our U.S. crews knowingly inflicted
> far greater
> > damage, damage beyond the symbolic, on innocent civilians.
> Were they
> > heroes or villains?
> >
> > What motivates these Arabic suicide bombers? Well,
> principle. No power
> > on earth has governed conduct among Arabic nations in the last half
> > century more than the United States. And our treatment of
> these nations
> > has been highly selective. Some of the most repressive
> regimes, like
> > Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, blessed with that most favorite of American
> > fluids, petroleum, have received special privileges. And
> such as Iran,
> > where for years we financed a corrupt Shah, was first our
> lap darling, and
> > then a rabid junkyard dog. Sadam Hussein was our darling of
> > Middle-Eastern democracy twenty years ago, granting
> suffrage to women,
> > until he did several deeds not to our liking, among them
> attempting to
> > reclaim land historically part of Iraq and ceded to a
> Kuwaiti prince by a
> > British colonel.
> >
> > But nothing sticks in the Arabic craw like the U.S. financing and
> > sponsoring of the terrorist state of Israel, where the
> ethnic polices of
> > Apartheid are visited upon the ancient enemy of the Jews,
> the Philistines
> > of the Bible, now called Palestinians. It takes rather a
> twisted logic to
> > find the aspirations of Palestinians for life, liberty, a
> homeland, and
> > self-determination in their own land, to be illegitimate.
> Yet America
> > continues to allow Israelis to perpetrate the very crimes upon
> > Palestinians that Jews suffered at the hands of Nazi
> Germany and Austria
> > during WWII. To many in the world the Holocaust industry
> has been used to
> > confer upon Jews a special victimhood that licenses any means in the
> > pursuit of Zionist ambitions.
> >
> > It is not simply America's hypocrisy of professing the virtues of
> > democracy while working actively to subvert it in Southeast Asia, in
> > Central America, in Chile, but not least in sacrificing
> Arabic-speaking
> > peoples in the course of pursuing a pro-Israeli policy and
> averting its
> > eyes while Israel punishes twentyfold each death caused by
> Palestinians
> > they deem monstrously ungrateful for being held hostage in
> their own land.
> > All the while American media, from film to TV to print journalism,
> > relentlessly serve the Washington line that Arabs and Islamites are
> > fanatics possessed by inhuman values who lack respect for
> human life and
> > human institutions.
> >
> > Better than revenge would be a recharting of our course as
> a nation, so
> > that we cease our policy of differential treatment of
> various peoples, and
> > begin to work towards universal equality and justice. Were
> we to do so, I
> > imagine the suicide bombers who understandably but
> unforgivably harmed so
> > many innocents would have been willing to lay their lives
> down to protect
> > us.
> >
> > It is powerlessness and frustration that creates the Osama
> bin Ladens and
> > his followers. Probably they are no more mad than the many
> soldiers who
> > fight and die valiantly in causes in which they believe.
> Probably it is
> > justice that they seek. Their resort to terrorism is not a
> first choice
> > but a last. And it is we who labor, whether wish to
> acknowledge so or
> > not, to constrict their choices.
> >
> > As a matter of common sense, however, the American
> government cannot turn
> > its other cheek, at least not officially. It must return blood for
> > blood. Not to do so is to confess that terrrorism can
> succeed with a
> > superpower as an instrument of policy. A horrible catch-22.
> >
> > Still, a taste for revenge is a bitter milk to feed babies.
> It condemns
> > them to reenact the sins of their ancestors.
> >
> > Consider that the nuclear genie is not yet out of the terrorist
> > bottle. Indeed, it is the threat of the nuclear imp run amok that
> > constitutes Secretary Colin Powell's trump card as he calls on such
> > dangerous countries as Pakistan to consider their potential
> status as the
> > victim of a nuclear terrorist.
> >
> > Alas, we may not have seen the worst. The WTC destruction,
> awful as it is
> > in human terms, may be but a prelude to an ever more
> unthinkable ceremony
> > of innocence. The message these terrorists were sending is not the
> > message we have been reading. If we care for our children,
> and for their
> > children, we will work to refashion our national politics.
> We no longer
> > have the luxury of strutting for having outlasted Ronald
> Reagan's Evil
> > Empire in horrible and wasteful arms race. We all have
> work to do, and it
> > does not consist in staying home and nursing our anger, our
> fear, or our
> > disdain for the world.
> >
> > Doug Purl
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
=========================================================================
From: Alex Shaltiel <shalt@paradigmgeo.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Terrorism from a Full Perspective
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:56:20 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n970
>
> The same folks who would justify and approve of slaves in
> Haiti murdering
> their white masters for freedom, or who would have encouraged
> slaves in the
> South to rise up and murder their masters, now are the same
> ones standing
> guard over Israel which took away these people's land and now
> treat them like
> slaves and deny them basic human rights, and calling
> 'abolitionist' people
Taking there land indeed
go to several history books gentlemen,
ask was there ever a palestinian state? - No
was there ever a palestinain Capital? - No
How many times does Jerusalem appear in the Koraan? - Null/zero 0
Was there and IS there a distinct palestinian culture which makes them a
people? - No they are arabs,
70% of the people of Jordan are palestinians, and a threat to the Jordanian
monarch.
Israel GAVE the palestinians LAND originaly belonging to Jordan and Egypt.
The US GAVE the palestinians VEHICLES GUNS and an AIRPORT to build their
country.
Both Israel and the palestinians SIGNED agreements and contracts for peace
where
both Israel and especialy the US are on the GIVING side. and palestinians
are on the TAKING.
The palestinian leadres embezeld some of the money given to them into secret
swiss accounts.
Palestinians have a low standard of living in western world standards, but
have the highest compared
to their brothers in arab countries, this is due to the success of Israel
who supplies Jobs and buisness
opportunities to them. (aka mexico)
There was peace on the land for a handfull of years, then the palestinians
went on there next step
of destroying israel and started an all out terrorism war,
There are at least one suicide bomber/car per week, they target children
women in the restaurants
shopping malls blow whole buses,
while Israel gets condemmed for trying to stop the butchers using helicopter
guns.
The palestinians tore every paragraph in the contracts they have ever
signed,
Its a culture war,
Yes egypt has officialy condemmed the horrible attack on the US, but Cairo
streets are celibrating.
Blaming israel is like blaming a woman who was just being raped for its her
fault for being so attractive.
and on taking there land subject, I suggest returning texas to mexico, and
the rest to the indians.
> like me a 'neo-nazi'. And for the record, I DON'T justify
> what happened, but
> I'm afraid we are going to dig ourselves a deeper hole with
> all our arrogance
> and 'gung-ho'attitude. We need to be VERY careful!
>
> btw, didn't we have a popular Iranian leader assassinated
> back in the 50's or
> 60's (we had the British do our dirty work) all because he
> was encouraging his
> people to ask for more than pennies a barrel for their oil?
> Then we put the
> Shaw in control so he would continue to sell us cheap oil at
> the expense of
> the average person in Iran. I know this hurts, and that my views are
> unpopular, but so were a lot of other people - that doesn't
> mean that they
> might be any less true and accurate.
>
> This is the last I'm going to say on the matter, but we should not be
> surprised to wake up on morning soon and see a mushroom cloud
> instead of an
> airliner.
>
> Steve
>
> Douglas Purl wrote:
>
> > Inherently governments are incapable of public candor. We
> cannot look to
> > them for a profound or disinterested public analysis of
> issues. They are
> > allegiant to an agenda and attempt to conserve the very
> values by which
> > they achieved political control of the ship of state.
> >
> > Nor can we turn to popular journalism, especially of the
> electronic kind,
> > to deepen our understanding. Journalism has been steadily
> merging with
> > entertainment and corporate interests. In the past
> newspapers tended to
> > represent the values of the families that owned them, but
> increasingly
> > they have become lobbyists for the perspectives of their corporate
> > interests. And those interests seem to survive changes of
> congressional
> > and presidential party control, and they manage to govern
> our foreign
> > policy through all the vicissitudes of private control and
> faint public
> > debate of national policy.
> >
> > Having been involved in probing the issues of terrorism
> three decades and
> > more ago, I am struck by the superficiality of discussions
> of what has
> > happened to the world in the last three days. In the early
> sixties the
> > late Peter George's novel _Red Alert_ caused a ripple in think-tank
> > circles when it was discovered that its scenario of mutual nuclear
> > annihilation by mishap could not be avoided by the
> procedures then in
> > place by either the United States or Russia. You probably
> know this novel
> > by its 1964 film name, _Dr. Strangelove, or How I Stopped
> Worrying and
> > Learned to Love the Bomb_. Dr. Strangelove, quite openly,
> was modelled on
> > Henry Kissinger, one of the most dangerous and evil men of the last
> > century.
> >
> > A few years later the Institute for Strategic Studies held an
> > international conference in London addressing the issues of
> war and peace
> > in a parlous age. The consensus, it may surprise you, was that the
> > looming threat to humanity issued not from the prospect of
> internecine war
> > but from cat-out-of-the-bag terrorism. I explain.
> >
> > Nations, for all their bluster and vileness, tend to
> conduct their affairs
> > of state rationally. What keeps them in check is the
> vulnerability of
> > their assets. The threat of nuclear destruction added a
> new caution to
> > the conduct of international policy. No longer could wars
> of adventure be
> > waged without the risk that their consequences could escalate beyond
> > rational control.
> >
> > The nuclear factor, however, swings another way for
> terrorists. Consider
> > that if it need not be delivered by mean of a sophisticated
> vehicle, a
> > nuclear bomb large enough to destroy a vertical metropolis
> like New York
> > City can be carried by one man in two suitcases. As nuclear weapons
> > proliferate, and are developed by smaller and smaller nations, the
> > possibility that dictators in small republics would
> abdicate not with the
> > crown jewels but with a few nuclear weapons to be sold on
> the black market
> > looms. In the hands of a pirate such a weapon would constitute the
> > supreme means of shaking down mankind. What if a terrorist
> group held NYC
> > hostage to a nuclear threat? And what if, ransom demands
> having been
> > denied, NYC poofed off the map. The next day a thousand
> ransom notes
> > would arrive in the cities of the world. And when that second city
> > vaporized, mankind would arrive at a circumstance that no
> collective will,
> > concerted effort, or unified campaign could avert. We
> would go back to
> > rocks and bones as tools of subsistence.
> >
> > Doubtless we need to grieve for the victims of these
> aeronautical bombs,
> > and mourn for a bit over our loss of innocence. But we need also to
> > consider that recovery of our innocence is neither possible
> nor desirable.
> > Here's why.
> >
> > We are horrified by these suicide bombers. We consider
> them cowards and
> > criminals against mankind of an order unimagined until now.
> But consider
> > that U. S. bombers deliberately tested the mechanism of the
> firestorm over
> > Tokyo after our saturation bombing of Dresden in WWII
> produced thermal
> > effects orders of magnitude in excess of the combustibles
> dropped on the
> > city. It took a second effort on the residential boroughs
> of Tokyo for us
> > to ignite a genuine firestorm, but we succeeded, with a loss of life
> > variously estimated at 100,000, 200,000, and 500,000
> depending on which
> > authority one consults. Our U.S. crews knowingly inflicted
> far greater
> > damage, damage beyond the symbolic, on innocent civilians.
> Were they
> > heroes or villains?
> >
> > What motivates these Arabic suicide bombers? Well,
> principle. No power
> > on earth has governed conduct among Arabic nations in the last half
> > century more than the United States. And our treatment of
> these nations
> > has been highly selective. Some of the most repressive
> regimes, like
> > Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, blessed with that most favorite of American
> > fluids, petroleum, have received special privileges. And
> such as Iran,
> > where for years we financed a corrupt Shah, was first our
> lap darling, and
> > then a rabid junkyard dog. Sadam Hussein was our darling of
> > Middle-Eastern democracy twenty years ago, granting
> suffrage to women,
> > until he did several deeds not to our liking, among them
> attempting to
> > reclaim land historically part of Iraq and ceded to a
> Kuwaiti prince by a
> > British colonel.
> >
> > But nothing sticks in the Arabic craw like the U.S. financing and
> > sponsoring of the terrorist state of Israel, where the
> ethnic polices of
> > Apartheid are visited upon the ancient enemy of the Jews,
> the Philistines
> > of the Bible, now called Palestinians. It takes rather a
> twisted logic to
> > find the aspirations of Palestinians for life, liberty, a
> homeland, and
> > self-determination in their own land, to be illegitimate.
> Yet America
> > continues to allow Israelis to perpetrate the very crimes upon
> > Palestinians that Jews suffered at the hands of Nazi
> Germany and Austria
> > during WWII. To many in the world the Holocaust industry
> has been used to
> > confer upon Jews a special victimhood that licenses any means in the
> > pursuit of Zionist ambitions.
> >
> > It is not simply America's hypocrisy of professing the virtues of
> > democracy while working actively to subvert it in Southeast Asia, in
> > Central America, in Chile, but not least in sacrificing
> Arabic-speaking
> > peoples in the course of pursuing a pro-Israeli policy and
> averting its
> > eyes while Israel punishes twentyfold each death caused by
> Palestinians
> > they deem monstrously ungrateful for being held hostage in
> their own land.
> > All the while American media, from film to TV to print journalism,
> > relentlessly serve the Washington line that Arabs and Islamites are
> > fanatics possessed by inhuman values who lack respect for
> human life and
> > human institutions.
> >
> > Better than revenge would be a recharting of our course as
> a nation, so
> > that we cease our policy of differential treatment of
> various peoples, and
> > begin to work towards universal equality and justice. Were
> we to do so, I
> > imagine the suicide bombers who understandably but
> unforgivably harmed so
> > many innocents would have been willing to lay their lives
> down to protect
> > us.
> >
> > It is powerlessness and frustration that creates the Osama
> bin Ladens and
> > his followers. Probably they are no more mad than the many
> soldiers who
> > fight and die valiantly in causes in which they believe.
> Probably it is
> > justice that they seek. Their resort to terrorism is not a
> first choice
> > but a last. And it is we who labor, whether wish to
> acknowledge so or
> > not, to constrict their choices.
> >
> > As a matter of common sense, however, the American
> government cannot turn
> > its other cheek, at least not officially. It must return blood for
> > blood. Not to do so is to confess that terrrorism can
> succeed with a
> > superpower as an instrument of policy. A horrible catch-22.
> >
> > Still, a taste for revenge is a bitter milk to feed babies.
> It condemns
> > them to reenact the sins of their ancestors.
> >
> > Consider that the nuclear genie is not yet out of the terrorist
> > bottle. Indeed, it is the threat of the nuclear imp run amok that
> > constitutes Secretary Colin Powell's trump card as he calls on such
> > dangerous countries as Pakistan to consider their potential
> status as the
> > victim of a nuclear terrorist.
> >
> > Alas, we may not have seen the worst. The WTC destruction,
> awful as it is
> > in human terms, may be but a prelude to an ever more
> unthinkable ceremony
> > of innocence. The message these terrorists were sending is not the
> > message we have been reading. If we care for our children,
> and for their
> > children, we will work to refashion our national politics.
> We no longer
> > have the luxury of strutting for having outlasted Ronald
> Reagan's Evil
> > Empire in horrible and wasteful arms race. We all have
> work to do, and it
> > does not consist in staying home and nursing our anger, our
> fear, or our
> > disdain for the world.
> >
> > Doug Purl
>
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Beck" <cbeck@brewercompany.com>
Subject: [JN] TEST
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:00:48 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n019
TEST
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@orion.it.luc.edu>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:59:36 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n029
no mail in 1.5 days.
hmm
just testing
tom
- --------------------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America http://www.lowther-america.com
Oris 150 Horns http://orion.it.luc.edu/~tronan
=========================================================================
From: "pagebleu" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:01:35 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n032
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BE52AA.C14512C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Test, back on the list...
- ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BE52AA.C14512C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Test, back on the list...</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BE52AA.C14512C0--
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Beck" <cbeck@brewercompany.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:45:09 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n060
test
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Beck" <cbeck@brewercompany.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:05:20 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n061
test
Chris Beck
See my web page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes/index.htm
=========================================================================
From: William Hunt <wjhunt@ncal.verio.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:45:39 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n061
happy or unhappy that is the question.
=========================================================================
From: "Sylvain Giguere" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:16:06 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n078
Message en plusieurs parties et au format MIME.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE70A2.39A0B980
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
test
- ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE70A2.39A0B980
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>test</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE70A2.39A0B980--
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.ntnu.no>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 12:57:22 +0200 (CEST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n144
just a test
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.ntnu.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \--\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@omegav.ntnu.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone: (+47)73911068 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 18:33:37 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n173
test
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <lowther@wxs.nl>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 01:28:44 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n181
test
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:38:59 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n206
test
sorry...
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:41:57 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n364
just a test. hope i see it back soon!
____________________________
David Crittle
retrovox@bigpond.com
____________________________
Visit the Retrovox Where?house at http://www.users.bigpond.com/retrovox
____________________________
Some pics at
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=149682
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:04:57 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n373
just a test
=========================================================================
From: "Graham Ingle." <blackcat.e@virgin.net>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:21:25 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n374
=========================================================================
From: PritchettR@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:23:34 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n387
Checking to see what's happening to my posts...
Rob Pritchett
Hurst, Texas
=========================================================================
From: rnevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:41:40 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n405
lskdles
=========================================================================
From: Ed Faulkner <efaulkne@mail.wsu.edu>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 08:57:20 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n450
_____________________________
Ed Faulkner \ through a child's eyes
CMT Supervisor \ sky is blue
Washington State University \ grass is green
Pullman, WA,99164 \ I want to see again
(509) 335-7566 \
efaulkne@wsu.edu \______________________
=========================================================================
From: terran jlowe <jlowe@vol.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 21:11:32 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n475
test
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:16:01 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n487
?
=========================================================================
From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] test
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:35:40 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n487
This is a test
If this had been an actual post you would have been thrilled to read me.
this is only a test
;-)
I see i'm not the only one who thinks its broken when the flow of email
stops!
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Patrick Currie wrote:
> ?
>
>
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] test
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:43:50 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n487
rather quiet, not ?
Guido
At 07:16 20/03/2000 -0600, Patrick Currie wrote:
>?
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Joe" <doodle@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] test
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:28:53 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n488
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
To: <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 5:16 AM
Subject: [JN] test
> ?
>
>
To ?
Or not to ?
That is the ?
=========================================================================
From: "Aigner Josef, Dr." <j.aigner@staedtische.co.at>
Subject: [JN]Test
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:27:59 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n581
Test
=========================================================================
From: "Dale Simon-contr" <Dale.Simon-contr@trw.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:55:25 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n586
test
=========================================================================
From: "Dale Simon-contr" <Dale.Simon-contr@trw.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:59:43 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n611
i am sending this message as a test to see if I was able to turn off the silly HTML artifacts. I ho
pe it worked.
See www.energyon.com for energy savings. (pay no attention to the address, I just wanted be thoroug
h with the test.
Dale
=========================================================================
From: "Spence Barton" <ence-ack@rio.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 13:07:54 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n621
test
=========================================================================
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn_Aaholm?= <bjorn@vt52.com>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 22:42:34 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n621
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test
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class=3D687584120-08082000>test</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: "Jon Lane" <jhlane@msn.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 12:31:02 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n656
test
=========================================================================
From: Scott Walters <sfwalters@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] test
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 21:48:19 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n657
Roger Test: Read you 5 by 5.
Jon Lane wrote:
> test
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:22:06 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n660
?
=========================================================================
From: "BobC" <bobcx@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:45:46 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n660
You test did not work Pat. :)
Bob
=========================================================================
From: "pagebleu" <pagebleu@quebectel.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:51:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n743
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
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Just a test to try to be back on the list again.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Just a test to try to be back on the list=20
again.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:11:35 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n749
=========================================================================
From: "Fred Volz" <fcv@emotiveaudio.com>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:59:41 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n758
test
=========================================================================
From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:16:43 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n779
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <psieg@nxs.net>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:12:59 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n797
Test
=========================================================================
From: Andrew Brandon <ajbrandon@yahoo.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:58:35 -0800 (PST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n800
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mindspring.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:34:12 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n814
test
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 01:52:36 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n816
test
- -------
Grover Gardner
=========================================================================
From: "theology" <theology@ziplip.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:25:50 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n845
test
* Get free, secure online email at http://www.ziplip.com/ *
=========================================================================
From: "P de R. Leclercq" <triode@freenetname.co.uk>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 20:24:24 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n881
Test
=========================================================================
From: michael knapp <sound@auriculum.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:08:47 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n934
sorry for the spam -- i've sent many messages now that haven't gotten
through to the list, but i think i've found the problem
mike
=========================================================================
From: michael knapp <sound@auriculum.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:08:54 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n934
sorry for the spam -- i've sent many messages now that haven't gotten
through to the list, but i think i've found the problem
mike
=========================================================================
From: "david tan" <dtkky@singnet.com.sg>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:15:16 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n938
=========================================================================
From: Graham Ingle <blackcat.e@virgin.net>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:20:36 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n946
=========================================================================
From: Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:48:29 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n977
test - sorry
the mail server went down yesterday, just checking if i'm still
subscribed.
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. Electronics Engineering Student
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: "Jan Hass" <jh@hifi-analyse.dk>
Subject: [JN] Test.
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:30:17 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n977
=========================================================================
From: "Rae Hartte" <Rae@planetwideprayer.org>
Subject: [JN] Test
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 00:11:56 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n987
=========================================================================
From: "Fred Volz" <fcv@emotiveaudio.com>
Subject: [JN] test
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:54:14 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n993
test
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: [JN] : TEST,delete
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:29:52 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n640
TEST
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: [JN] Test: Delete (Happy99 Alert! Please read!)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:35:39 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n061
Test: Have I got rid of this shit?
TL
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: [JN] TEST:Delete (TrHappy99 Alert...)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:05:14 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n061
XXXXX
=========================================================================
From: "Stefan Figiel" <stefanfigiel@hotmail.com>
Subject: [JN] test-do not read
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:31:24 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n494
test
sf
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Michael Cameron" <mncameron@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [JN] Test DON'T READ
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:14:02 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n071
TEST
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: [JN] Test Equipment Manuals
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 15:15:40 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n515
Hi Gang,
I have been unable to resist buying an "as new" HP 182 scope with
100MHz plugins for $100. The thing works real fine except for a lot of
noise on the x5 gain multiplier - and there is no manual. I also need
manuals for my Xmas present to myself, a HP 3490 6 digit DMM...and the Tek
466 scope Bill Gaw gave me (Muchos Danke, Bill, it's beautiful!)...and the
HP 3312A function generator I rescued from a friend who was going to
slaughter it for the parts...
I remember someone posting a site where such manuals are available for
either download or sale, does anyone here have this source? From HP & Tek
they'll be more than these toys cost!
Allen (VSE)
PS For the car freaks: today I attended a meeting of Lotus Omega owners and
enthusiasts. For those not in the know - this is a European four door
medium sized sedan with 377 horse power and a 180 mph (300kph) top speed!
Based on a Opel (German GM) Omega and seriously worked over by Lotus in the
UK (no Lucas electrics) it is claimed to be the fastest four door ever made
as a production device - the various BMW M5's need not apply. Around 900
were made in 91 and 92 - there were 20 there and I want one, badly...
=========================================================================
From: Jeremy Epstein <jepstein@shwd.com>
Subject: [JN] test for martin V.L.
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:11:47 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n463
Do you see this (twice, on the mailing list and directly) Martin?
- -j
- --
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein .........jepstein@shwd.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: Ishmael349@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Test gear for sale
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:02:23 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n113
I have the following in good working condition:
General Radio Co.
#1217C - Pulse Generator w/1201 tube power supply
#1210C - Oscillator, 20 - 500KHz w/1201 tube power supply
#1551 - Sound Level Meter w/mic (no battery)
10 amp Variac (in custom wood box with 4-A/C outlets.
$225 for all of the above.
Ballantine Labs
True RMS A/C TUBE Voltmeter (very sensitive, superb for testing low power
amp/preamp circuits) 320 micro-volts to 320v.
$125
Heath
#4552 - 2MHz Oscilloscope (dual-trace) - $200
Sine-Square wave generator .1 to 10 volts, 200KHz - $75
All of the above are in working condition - sold "as is" - prices include US
shipping.
Herbert Reichert
Ishmael349@aol.com
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: [JN] Test Gear for Sale
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:59:07 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n611
Hi Joes:
I have for sale the following:
1 - Comstron High Precision Sine/Square Generator: 2MHz with
built in digital frequency counter and digital voltmeter. It steps
frequency in 1 Hz increments from 1Hz to 2MHz and output voltage
in 10mV steps from 0.00V to 2.00V.
THD products + Noise @ 5kHz @ 1V out into 50 ohms are typically
-63dB. I'll look at it on my spectrum analyzer to get a picture of
the harmonic spread if you like.
The unit is dead clean and comes with manual . . . .
$US85.00 FOB Calgary. AB
2 - General Radio 1390B 5MHz Pink Noise Generator. I have two of these
so one gets to go bye, bye. Pink noise is *very* useful for
assessing loudspeaker colorations by "earball" and you can use
this with a 1/3 oct analyzer to get a useful picture of in-room
speaker performance
This device will generate pink noise to an upper limit of 20kHz,
500kHz or 5MHz at switch selectable amplitudes from 30 uV to 5V
@ 20KHz, 4V @ 500KHz and 3V @ 5MHz. The specs substantially
better the cal specs.
The unit is clean with no blemishes at all on the front panel.
No manual, just a catalogue page photocopy.
$US85.00 FOB Calgary. AB
Best regards,
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: Quaschik Hartmut <Hartmut.Quaschik@mch20.sbs.de>
Subject: [JN] test - I am online again
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:20:27 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n609
if you see this, I am online on the Joenet again,
regards,
Hartmut from Munich
=========================================================================
From: "Mackris, Thom G." <tgmackris@vicorpinc.com>
Subject: [JN] Test - Ignore
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:44:36 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n263
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <EuropaChris@netscape.net>
Subject: [JN] test - ignore
Date: 2 Nov 99 07:05:27 CST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n320
test
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.
=========================================================================
From: "Snoopy" <tcma@netvigator.com>
Subject: [JN] Test - Ignore please
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 06:59:37 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n273
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: Joseph Lowe <jlowe@cdc.net>
Subject: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:14:54 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
Sure is quiet today.
=========================================================================
From: Chris and Sue Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:16:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
Oh, boy this is fun...
"Hugh R. Dean" wrote:
> Joe Lowe wrote:
>
> > Sure is quiet today.
>
> Let's warm it up.
>
> 1. Cables make no difference at all if source and input impedances are
> nominally below 10K
Well, at least a lot LESS difference. I can't tell a damn thing between cables
out of the preamp with 600ohm source. CD player is another matter, tho. Wimpy
cable = wimpy bass.
>
> 2. Who cares about H2? H3, H5 and H7 are the rub. It's the spectrum and
> the odds, after all.
Too much of anything is not a Good Thing, but I do think the odds are the nasty.
>
> 3. The low mu, 2K high voltage tubes sound best - like the 845. 300Bs
> suck.
Yahoo, that's good. I do like the low mu, high Z tubes.
>
> 4. SRPPs make lousy drivers. Plate loading rules.
Don't like either, I like cathode followers or tranny coupling.
>
> 5. Silver wired OPTsmake absolutely no difference at all. It's bullshit.
Nope, does make a difference. It's called susceptance. Silver is WAY different
than copper.
>
> 6. Diff pairs - tube and SS - cancel even order distortion, so all audio
> circuits should avoid them.
Bingo. Haven't heard a PP or Diff design that held a candle to even a modest SE
circuit.
>
> 7. DVDs, at this early stage, do not compare very well with highly
> developed, high end CD players.
No comment. Never heard a DVD.
>
>
> There, that should do it. Flameproof suit now donned and ready.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hugh R. Dean
> Melbourne, Australia
Good one, Hugh!
Chris
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:32:02
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
A 08:14 PM 9/20/99 -0400, Joseph Lowe a écrit :
>Sure is quiet today.
Tooooo quiet ...
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:48:00 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
Hi there,
>1. Cables make no difference at all if source and input impedances are
>nominally below 10K
Wrong.
>2. Who cares about H2? H3, H5 and H7 are the rub. It's the spectrum
>and the odds, after all.
Correct if H2 is being kept within a reasonable range of levels.
>3. The low mu, 2K high voltage tubes sound best - like the 845. 300Bs
>suck.
Some of my best friends use 845's. I like the 300B.
>4. SRPPs make lousy drivers. Plate loading rules.
SRPP makes lousy everything. Wouldn't catch me using one.
>5. Silver wired OPTsmake absolutely no difference at all. It's
>bullshit.
Dunno. Anyone care to send me a Pair of Silver OPT's to try? Silver in
Cables certainly makes a difference.
>6. Diff pairs - tube and SS - cancel even order distortion, so all audio
>circuits should avoid them.
That is not why to avoid them. Avoid them for their property of increasing
significantly both the numbers of significant odd harmonics and their level.
>7. DVDs, at this early stage, do not compare very well with highly
>developed, high end CD players.
Dunno. My DVD Player does (not that it is like stock or anything). But I do
know that they (and High End CD-Players) do not compare to a high Quality
Vinyl playback system.
>There, that should do it. Flameproof suit now donned and ready.
Parasites in the landing gear!
Heat. Can we get some heat here! Get us some heat here!
(from "The 5th Element")
Ciao Thorsten
PS: You forgot another really nice flame topic - but I shall not mention it,
thogh the Letters C and F are in there somewhere....
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:53:20 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
Joe Lowe wrote:
> Sure is quiet today.
Let's warm it up.
1. Cables make no difference at all if source and input impedances are
nominally below 10K
2. Who cares about H2? H3, H5 and H7 are the rub. It's the spectrum and
the odds, after all.
3. The low mu, 2K high voltage tubes sound best - like the 845. 300Bs
suck.
4. SRPPs make lousy drivers. Plate loading rules.
5. Silver wired OPTsmake absolutely no difference at all. It's bullshit.
6. Diff pairs - tube and SS - cancel even order distortion, so all audio
circuits should avoid them.
7. DVDs, at this early stage, do not compare very well with highly
developed, high end CD players.
There, that should do it. Flameproof suit now donned and ready.
Cheers,
Hugh R. Dean
Melbourne, Australia
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:06:34 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
Hi Hugh,
>Ah, but the SRPP has a CF sitting right on top.
Well, yes and no. The CF in the SRPP is actually a BF (Bootstrap Follower)
and not strictly a Cathode Follower. Not that that improves it's sonics
overly much.
>A sort of totem CF, if you
>follow...
Yes. I noticed. Some People have made a totem out of Cathode Followers and
dance around them, admiring their perfection.
>Ho hum. And so to bed...
Have a good time. And don't do anything I would not....
Ciao Thorsten
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:41:25 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
Hey Chris,
In response to this:
> 5. Silver wired OPTsmake absolutely no difference at all. It's
bullshit.
You wrote this:
> Nope, does make a difference. It's called susceptance. Silver is WAY
different
> than copper.
Could you elaborate? I dimly remember susceptance, but have forgotten the
relevance.
A primer would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Hugh
=========================================================================
From: SCOTT WALTERS <sfwalters@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:51:30 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
Hugh,
you are obviously a John Cleese, Eric Idle & Michael Paylin fan. I
admire your brass. Think I'll have a Sheaf to salute your audacity!
Scott
"Hugh R. Dean" wrote:
>
> Joe Lowe wrote:
>
> > Sure is quiet today.
>
> Let's warm it up.
>
> 1. Cables make no difference at all if source and input impedances are
> nominally below 10K
> 2. Who cares about H2? H3, H5 and H7 are the rub. It's the spectrum and
> the odds, after all.
> 3. The low mu, 2K high voltage tubes sound best - like the 845. 300Bs
> suck.
> 4. SRPPs make lousy drivers. Plate loading rules.
> 5. Silver wired OPTsmake absolutely no difference at all. It's bullshit.
> 6. Diff pairs - tube and SS - cancel even order distortion, so all audio
> circuits should avoid them.
> 7. DVDs, at this early stage, do not compare very well with highly
> developed, high end CD players.
>
> There, that should do it. Flameproof suit now donned and ready.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hugh R. Dean
> Melbourne, Australia
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:42:49 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n282
Thorsten,
Thank you - thermionic catharsis at last. It's been a long time coming,
like talc for a chronic itch. And I just love those categoric statements -
they almost match mine.
> PS: You forgot another really nice flame topic - but I shall not mention
it,
> thogh the Letters C and F are in there somewhere....
Ah, but the SRPP has a CF sitting right on top. A sort of totem CF, if you
follow...
I guess Joes have just seen it all. Provoking you lot is not easy - and the
ones who bite have usually built the circuit and compared, so refuting them
is kinda tricky.
Ho hum. And so to bed...
Hugh Dean
=========================================================================
From: "Martin/Campbell family" <martincampbell@apex.net.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:11:50 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n283
Hugh provocatively wrote:
>2. Who cares about H2? H3, H5 and H7 are the rub. It's the spectrum and
>the odds, after all.
I care about H2.
1) Let's say I get a fair bit of it in one stage and follow that with an
other stage also making a fair bit of H2. Each stage is going to make
higher order distortion from the distortion of earlier stages, and we all
have more than one amplification stage and all agree that the higher order
stuff is nastier and more audible.
2) What happens when you get a simple signal with H2? Answer according to
the books is that you can't hear it unless there is really a lot of it.
But, what happens when there is a complex signal with any kind of harmonic
distortion? According to the books you generate a whole lot of
intermodulation distortion (sum and difference signals). It think this is
what I hear as a general lack of clarity on complex material or general
fuzzyness to the sound.
Having said all that I am happy with my SE amps, but I did make a point of
using operating points that avoid dipping into the low current regions, load
lines as horizontal as possible, triodes with evenly spaced plate curves
etc.
It seems to me that H2 is not as bad as the others, there may well be
something to the idea that what distortion you have should have H2>H3>H4>H5
etc. (so SE is OK), but the aim should still be to get distortion as low as
possible.
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:14:45
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n285
A 06:29 PM 9/24/99 +0200, Le Cleac'h J.-M. a écrit :
>> De : Chris Beck <europachris@netscape.net>
>> A : Hugh R.Dean <aspen@alphalink.com.au>; T.Loesch <ezee_e@hotmail.com>;
>sound@deliverator.io.com
>> Objet : Re: [[[JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?]]
>> Date : vendredi 24 septembre 1999 14:32
>>
>> OK, here's some more info on susceptance:
>>
>> Jack Elliano from Electra-Print sez:
>>
>> "The susceptance or sensitivity is the key thing. The main thing is that
>the
>> silver atom has two more shells or orbits with 18
>> more electrons than copper. These have more energy due to further
>distance
>> to its nucleus so they need less energy to move them, this is the
>> sensitivity, its more so than copper. The electrons are like little
>gyro's
>> and act like it when moved, this is the reason they have the right hand
>rules
>
>Hello,
>
>As you know there is another major difference between copper and silver.
>Silver oxide is electrically conductive as copper oxide is not.
>
>I don't know if we have to relate the sound of silver to its susceptance or
>to the conduction of the oxide though...
Exactly. I was afraid to be the first to say it, though. The fact that two
metals differ in terms of a given property doesn't necessarily mean that
this difference accounts for any sonic differences that may or may not
exist. Why not consider melting points, for example?
dbk
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:29:28 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n285
> De : Chris Beck <europachris@netscape.net>
> A : Hugh R.Dean <aspen@alphalink.com.au>; T.Loesch <ezee_e@hotmail.com>;
sound@deliverator.io.com
> Objet : Re: [[[JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?]]
> Date : vendredi 24 septembre 1999 14:32
>
> OK, here's some more info on susceptance:
>
> Jack Elliano from Electra-Print sez:
>
> "The susceptance or sensitivity is the key thing. The main thing is that
the
> silver atom has two more shells or orbits with 18
> more electrons than copper. These have more energy due to further
distance
> to its nucleus so they need less energy to move them, this is the
> sensitivity, its more so than copper. The electrons are like little
gyro's
> and act like it when moved, this is the reason they have the right hand
rules
Hello,
As you know there is another major difference between copper and silver.
Silver oxide is electrically conductive as copper oxide is not.
I don't know if we have to relate the sound of silver to its susceptance or
to the conduction of the oxide though...
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, leaving Paris and the Web for 10 days....
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing 123... is this thing on?
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:46:47 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n285
Jean-Michel wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As you know there is another major difference between copper and silver.
> Silver oxide is electrically conductive as copper oxide is not.
>
> I don't know if we have to relate the sound of silver to its susceptance
or
> to the conduction of the oxide though...
Yes, and I seem to remember CuO is a semiconductor. Surely this would have
an effect!
Hugh R. Dean
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: [JN] Testing for impedance at xover point
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:38:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n818
Does anyone know of a 'cheap' but accurate way to test a speaker and
find out what its impedance is at a certain frequency? I've heard that
there was some shareware computer program out there that could be rigged
up to your sound card that would give fairly accurate results. Anyone
know what/where it is? Any other ways?
Also, I don't know about 'white noise' but 'pink noise' is supposed to
contain equal levels of all frequencies, but I wouldn't necessarily
trust it. My suggestion is to get a relatively inexpensive pocket
signal generator (like the Tenma one from Parts Express
www.partsexpress.com) and rig up a phono plug to it and input it into
your system and actually measure the db level at different frequencies.
About the xover, I need to know what the impedance is for a TAD 4001 (8
ohm) driver at 300Hz. Also, need to know the impedance for an Altec
515-8G (8 ohm) at 300Hz.
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:00:21 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n818
I found something on the internet and need some opinions on how accurate
it might be (what do you think, Jeff?).
Signal generator wired to voltmeter with 1000ohm resitor in series and
an 8 ohm (if 8 ohm driver) wired across the circuit. I'll try to 'draw'
it below:
+
+ -------1000ohm---------------------------------|
signal | 8 ohm
driver | Voltmeter
----------------------------------------------------|
-
Here is what the artical said to do...
To calibrate the set up is simple, use a 4 (or 8 ohm) resistor in place
of the speaker for the calibration and
set the volume of the oscillator so that the voltmeter reads 4 (or 8, or
whatever calibration resistor you
use)..
Now that it is calibrated, put your speaker you wanna test back instead
of your resistor, it should read the
impedance of the speaker. As you sweep the oscillator through the audio
range, you will see the impedance
change with frequency.
You can write these measurements down on a sheet of graph paper and have
a permanent record if you
wish.
Should this work?
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h Jean-Michel" <lecleach@paris.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:38:17 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n818
- -----Message d'origine-----
De : Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
À : Joe List <sound@lists.io.com>
Date : mardi 27 février 2001 07:37
Objet : [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
>I found something on the internet and need some opinions on how accurate
>it might be
> +
> + -------1000ohm-----------------------------|
> signal | 8
ohm
> driver |
Voltmeter
> ----------------------------------------------------|
>Should this work?
Hello,
This is the most often used method to measure the impedance of the
loudspeaker.
In fact there is some little effect of the output impedance of the signal
generator.
For more accurate results you may use 2 voltmeters and measure both the
voltage through the 1000 ohms, this will give you the current I in mA , and
the voltage V through the loudspeaker.
Then you can calculate the impedance of the loudspeaker:
Z = V / I
But reading your first post I see that you want to measure at 300Hz both the
impedance of the TAD4001 and of the 515G.
I am right in assuming that, may be, you want to calculate some crossover?
In that case I recommand you to draw the entire impedance curve from 100Hz
to 1000Hz. You'll see that for the TD4001 there should be several impedance
peaks in that zone. So you have to take the mean impedance through the
crossover zone. If you take the impedance on the top of a peak or inversely
between 2 peaks this may lead to a bad crossover:
- wrong polynomial law (by example Tschebitchev in place of Bessel
or Butterworth you wanted initially use);
- wrong crossover frequencies(this may lead to some overlap or a
hole in the overall response curve).
From my experience high-pass crossovers are often the source of the problem
because of 2 reasons:
- - most often we want to cut the driver near of a main resonance peak
(specially with compression drivers which one possess several impedance
peaks)
- - most often we want to use a filter with a small attenuation slope
(6dB/octave or 12 dB/octave).
It is easy to understand that if you have, by example, 7 ohms at the
crossover cut-off frequency F1 and then a peak of 30 ohms one octave lower
(F2). If you use a 6dB/octave the impedance peak will be clearly audible
(and the attenuation in the response curve will not begin around F1 but even
lower than F2 .
That's a reason why (not the only one) I prefer to use active crossovers
and why I use minimum 3rd order filters.
For low pass filters the problem is more easy to solve as the impedance
curve over the cut off frequency is generally smooth and the rise of the
curve due to the selfic effect can be linearized easily with a Zobel filter
(here in France that filter is called "filtre de Boucherot")
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Jeff Mai <j.mai.lists@home.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:51:48 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n819
Steve, I had the same problem - a two way crossover and a three way
system. I decided it was easiest to roll in the tweeter right where
the midrange rolled off acoustically. One small cap and maybe one
inductor should do the trick. I even powered it off the midrange
amp. Sounded decent, though I always had problems getting the tweets
to sound integrated with the midrange horn. The tweets had a
metallic ring that didn't fit quite right (JBL 2404.)
I knew there was an easier way to measure the impedance, but I
couldn't remember it. The basic idea is the same. Jean-Michel,
couldn't you hook the signal generator up to a SS power amp and then
that to the speaker - resistor to remove the inaccuracy due to input
impedance?
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:08:45 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n819
Jean_Michel,
Good information! Thanks. I am using an active crossover, but the problem is
that I have a 4 way system and only a 3-way active crossover. I can reduce my
system to 3-way by leaving off the tweeter, but I think I really need the
tweeter.
Therefore, I am trying to take the bandpass out of the active crossover, go
through my SE amps, and then passively split the bandpass into 80Hz to 300Hz,
and 300Hz to 10KHz with a 2nd order L-W xover. This is why I needed to know
where my resonance frequencies are on the Altec 515-8G and the TAD4001.
Thanks, Steve
Le Cleac'h Jean-Michel wrote:
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
> À : Joe List <sound@lists.io.com>
> Date : mardi 27 février 2001 07:37
> Objet : [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
>
> >I found something on the internet and need some opinions on how accurate
> >it might be
> > +
> > + -------1000ohm-----------------------------|
> > signal | 8
> ohm
> > driver |
> Voltmeter
> > ----------------------------------------------------|
>
> >Should this work?
>
> Hello,
>
> This is the most often used method to measure the impedance of the
> loudspeaker.
> In fact there is some little effect of the output impedance of the signal
> generator.
>
> For more accurate results you may use 2 voltmeters and measure both the
> voltage through the 1000 ohms, this will give you the current I in mA , and
> the voltage V through the loudspeaker.
>
> Then you can calculate the impedance of the loudspeaker:
> Z = V / I
>
> But reading your first post I see that you want to measure at 300Hz both the
> impedance of the TAD4001 and of the 515G.
> I am right in assuming that, may be, you want to calculate some crossover?
>
> In that case I recommand you to draw the entire impedance curve from 100Hz
> to 1000Hz. You'll see that for the TD4001 there should be several impedance
> peaks in that zone. So you have to take the mean impedance through the
> crossover zone. If you take the impedance on the top of a peak or inversely
> between 2 peaks this may lead to a bad crossover:
> - wrong polynomial law (by example Tschebitchev in place of Bessel
> or Butterworth you wanted initially use);
> - wrong crossover frequencies(this may lead to some overlap or a
> hole in the overall response curve).
>
> >From my experience high-pass crossovers are often the source of the problem
> because of 2 reasons:
>
> - most often we want to cut the driver near of a main resonance peak
> (specially with compression drivers which one possess several impedance
> peaks)
>
> - most often we want to use a filter with a small attenuation slope
> (6dB/octave or 12 dB/octave).
>
> It is easy to understand that if you have, by example, 7 ohms at the
> crossover cut-off frequency F1 and then a peak of 30 ohms one octave lower
> (F2). If you use a 6dB/octave the impedance peak will be clearly audible
> (and the attenuation in the response curve will not begin around F1 but even
> lower than F2 .
>
> That's a reason why (not the only one) I prefer to use active crossovers
> and why I use minimum 3rd order filters.
>
> For low pass filters the problem is more easy to solve as the impedance
> curve over the cut off frequency is generally smooth and the rise of the
> curve due to the selfic effect can be linearized easily with a Zobel filter
> (here in France that filter is called "filtre de Boucherot")
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:46:07 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n819
Steve,
depending on the horn, the TD-4001 goes waaay up over 20k, although it will start
to beam (that's why I'm using an additional Fostex horn tweeter to fill in above
10k+). I would suggest to use the active x-over for bass/515/4001 and use a
simple 1st order passive x-over for the tweeter. If you have a separate tube amp
for the tweeter, you could dimension the coupling cap accordingly. This IMHO is a
*much* better solution than splitting the bandpass up - you're giving away much
of the benefits of the active x-over concepts (think IM distortion...)
YMMV,
Christian
Steve Van Osdell wrote:
> I am using an active crossover, but the problem is
> that I have a 4 way system and only a 3-way active crossover. I can reduce my
> system to 3-way by leaving off the tweeter, but I think I really need the
> tweeter.
>
> Therefore, I am trying to take the bandpass out of the active crossover, go
> through my SE amps, and then passively split the bandpass into 80Hz to 300Hz,
> and 300Hz to 10KHz with a 2nd order L-W xover. This is why I needed to know
> where my resonance frequencies are on the Altec 515-8G and the TAD4001.
>
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h Jean-Michel" <lecleach@paris.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:40:36 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n819
- -----Message d'origine-----
De : Jeff Mai <j.mai.lists@home.com>
À : Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Cc : Joenet (E-Mail) <sound@lists.io.com>
Date : mardi 27 février 2001 15:25
Objet : Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
>I knew there was an easier way to measure the impedance, but I
>couldn't remember it. The basic idea is the same. Jean-Michel,
>couldn't you hook the signal generator up to a SS power amp and then
>that to the speaker - resistor to remove the inaccuracy due to input
>impedance?
Hello,
The method described by Steve is still the simplest. If the generator
possess a low output impedance the current through the loudspeaker (and the
1000 ohms resistor) is nearly constant so you only have to measure a single
parameter, the voltage on the loudspeaker to calculate the impedance
(setting the voltage through the 1000 ohms resistor to 1 volts the number of
millivolts on the loudspeaker is equel to the impedance in ohms).
Using a SS amplifier you can use a 1 ohm resistor in series with the
loudspeaker you still have to know 2 parameters; current and voltage. If you
have 2 voltmeters it is easy as with the volume knob of the amplifier you
can set the voltage through the 1 ohm resistor constant (by example 100
millivolts) then on the second millivoltmeter you can read the voltage on
the loudspeaker (dividing the number of millivolts by 100 gives the
impedance).
If you only have 1 millivoltmeter, things are more difficult. If the output
voltage of the amplifier is constant doing a single measurement of voltage
on the loudspeaker allows youalso to calculate the current but you need a
hand calculator and some precious seconds. In the case youhave a single
millivoltmeter and don't want to use a hand calulator the best thing should
to put an inverter in the circuit so you can one the first position impose
100 millivolts on the 1 ohm resistor and on the second position you can
leasure the voltage on the loudspeaker which one is 100 times the number of
ohms...
But there is a major advantage to use a SS amplifier (or a tube amplifier
with a low outputi mpedance) this is because the loudspeaker playing at
normal level you can read on the impedance curves a lot of things related to
the reflection inside the box (closed or bass-reflex), parasitic vibrations
that only occur at high acoustic pressures inside the box, reflections at
the mouth of the horn and even some dirty things coming from the interaction
with the room....
I use often that method of impedance measurements at normal listening
level. Some years ago I put on the Joenet some impedance curves for a
tweeter JBL2405 unmodified free to radiate in air, unmodified with the mouth
damped with a large felt mass and modified with some horn at the mouth and
free to radiate in the air . The 3 curves showed that with the unmodified
2405 you have a large effect of reflected waves from the mouth to the
membrane while with the modified (using a horn consisting of cylinders grund
tangentially and glued on the sides of the slot of the tweeter) you have
nearly no reflected waves as when the tweeter is damped with the felt mass.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:25:12 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n819
Christian,
Good Idea! Why didn't I think of that. I had done this basic thing before when I
only had a 2 way passive crossover, and 'spliced' in a tweeter with a 1mf oil cap.
I've got plenty of amps, so no problem. Now the question is this (think I know the
answer)... do I run the TAD 4001's and the tweeter on my SE monoblocks and put the
Altec 515B's on a 6BQ5 PP, or viceversa. I say the former. I have a 400watt Heath
SS amp on the subwoofers, so that's a done deal.
Thanks, Steve
Christian Rintelen wrote:
> Steve,
>
> depending on the horn, the TD-4001 goes waaay up over 20k, although it will start
> to beam (that's why I'm using an additional Fostex horn tweeter to fill in above
> 10k+). I would suggest to use the active x-over for bass/515/4001 and use a
> simple 1st order passive x-over for the tweeter. If you have a separate tube amp
> for the tweeter, you could dimension the coupling cap accordingly. This IMHO is a
> *much* better solution than splitting the bandpass up - you're giving away much
> of the benefits of the active x-over concepts (think IM distortion...)
>
> YMMV,
>
> Christian
>
> Steve Van Osdell wrote:
>
> > I am using an active crossover, but the problem is
> > that I have a 4 way system and only a 3-way active crossover. I can reduce my
> > system to 3-way by leaving off the tweeter, but I think I really need the
> > tweeter.
> >
> > Therefore, I am trying to take the bandpass out of the active crossover, go
> > through my SE amps, and then passively split the bandpass into 80Hz to 300Hz,
> > and 300Hz to 10KHz with a 2nd order L-W xover. This is why I needed to know
> > where my resonance frequencies are on the Altec 515-8G and the TAD4001.
> >
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:11:25 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n821
Steve,
the answer is obvious.... ;-)
Christian
Steve Van Osdell wrote:
> I've got plenty of amps, so no problem. Now the question is this (think I know the
> answer)... do I run the TAD 4001's and the tweeter on my SE monoblocks and put the
> Altec 515B's on a 6BQ5 PP, or viceversa.
=========================================================================
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_Andr=E9_Hansen?= <fishfish@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing for speaker impedance
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:54:34 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n821
If you need a frequency/function/signal generator. You could try this
http://home.online.no/~fishfish/temporary/fg.exe
- --
Tom André Hansen
http://cgiperlsite.virtualave.net
http://fishfish.hos.online.no
=========================================================================
From: Ed Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: [JN] testing/no content
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 00:14:52 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n331
testing
=========================================================================
From: Jan Christian Schatvet <jascha@enitel.no>
Subject: [JN] testing one two
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:11:16 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n957
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <lowther@wxs.nl>
Subject: [JN] Testing, please delete!
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:23:02 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n072
Just testing, please ignore...
Bert Doppenberg
- ------
E-mail:
Business : BD-Design@lowther.nl
Private : BD@lowther.nl
Lowther Club Holland : LCH@lowther.nl
Homepage : http://www.lowther.nl
Tel./Fax: (0341) 254500 Mobile: (06) 51242990
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <lowther@wxs.nl>
Subject: [JN] Testing, Please delete
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:32:09 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n072
Sorry for the bandwidth, please ignore...
Bert Doppenberg
- ------
E-mail:
Business : BD-Design@lowther.nl
Private : BD@lowther.nl
Lowther Club Holland : LCH@lowther.nl
Homepage : http://www.lowther.nl
Tel./Fax: (0341) 254500 Mobile: (06) 51242990
=========================================================================
From: "Lee, Doo J [SFAE-GCSS-CRA]" <dlee@pica.army.mil>
Subject: [JN] Testing the WE 417A
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:58:25 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n938
I am seeking some wisdom from the group on the testing of the WE417A. I
understand that the TV-7's aren't super great testers for high Gm tubes like
6DJ8 & 417A, a little something off here or there could give one a false
reading. The gm on these tubes is high enough to excite parasitics if not
properly handled. This can lead to false readings.
The TV7 uses a rather high grid signal, 5 volts on the lower Gm ranges B and
C, 1 volt on range D, and 0.5 volt on ranges E and F. High-Gm tubes just
don't have that much swing in their transfer characteristics without going
into nonlinearity. One can get relative readings on these tubes, but the
actual numbers don't mean much.
Some of the above info was gathered from a Google search. My questions are:
1) how does one test these perfect looking 417A; 2) what to do with the
readings; and 3) what should the reading be for a new tube?
I have tested them on the TV7 and TV2 testers. The transconductance readings
are all over the place with the TV7 and a bit more consistent with the TV2
but are generally on the 'low' side. Thought?
TIA,
Doo Lee
=========================================================================
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing the WE 417A
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:00:37 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n938
Hello Lee.
Well the best advice for testing any valve, is to test it at your operating
point!
Many people imagine that if valves test the same at the point given in a
testing manual then they are the same. This is NOT true! That is, it can
be but often isn't.
For example I have a considerable number of EC8010s; these incidentally I
prefer to 417a/5842 - I think that they are better.
Now some of these are not excellent at the test point but are fine at the
operating point I chose when using them.
Many valve testers are quite brutal; with valuable valves it is safer to
build a nice rig with a reasonable power supply providing your chosen
voltage - or better still use a variac
You can use a simple arrangement of batteries and a multi-turn pot of say
500 ohms to provide the bias. All you need then are meters to measure Va,
Ia and Vg.
Regards
Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Lee, Doo J [SFAE-GCSS-CRA] <dlee@pica.army.mil>
To: <pderl@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: [JN] Testing the WE 417A
> Paul,
> Thanks for the reply. I am in the process of matching some of these
WE
> 417A. Now, I am a bit reluctant as to claiming these NOS are tested good
let
> alone come up with 'match' pairs. I did dailed in the 150v plate voltage
> with the TV2 for the test but the result was rather disappoinitng. What is
> your advise? Just go ahead and use them and ignore the matching aspect.
>
> Thanx,
> Doo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pderl@btinternet.com [mailto:pderl@btinternet.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:53 AM
> To: dlee@pica.army.mil
> Subject: Re: [JN] Testing the WE 417A
>
>
> I have an AVO VCM 163 and have tested about ten 417As; only two of them
made
> their rated gm of 25mA/V; most are about 20mA/V. The test point is 150V
and
> -1.5. Current should be 25mA, but seldom is.
>
> I hope that this helps
>
> Paul
>
> > I am seeking some wisdom from the group on the testing of the WE417A. I
> > understand that the TV-7's aren't super great testers for high Gm tubes
> like
> > 6DJ8 & 417A, a little something off here or there could give one a false
> > reading. The gm on these tubes is high enough to excite parasitics if
not
> > properly handled. This can lead to false readings.
> >
> > The TV7 uses a rather high grid signal, 5 volts on the lower Gm ranges B
> and
> > C, 1 volt on range D, and 0.5 volt on ranges E and F. High-Gm tubes just
> > don't have that much swing in their transfer characteristics without
going
> > into nonlinearity. One can get relative readings on these tubes, but
the
> > actual numbers don't mean much.
> >
> > Some of the above info was gathered from a Google search. My questions
> are:
> > 1) how does one test these perfect looking 417A; 2) what to do with the
> > readings; and 3) what should the reading be for a new tube?
> >
> > I have tested them on the TV7 and TV2 testers. The transconductance
> readings
> > are all over the place with the TV7 and a bit more consistent with the
TV2
> > but are generally on the 'low' side. Thought?
> >
> > TIA,
> > Doo Lee
=========================================================================
From: "Lee, Doo J [SFAE-GCSS-CRA]" <dlee@pica.army.mil>
Subject: RE: [JN] Testing the WE 417A
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:08:21 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n938
Paul,
Thanks for the info. I am in the process of sorting out the tubes and
don't have a circuit to put them to test yet. Apparently, a simple test with
the tester for these high gm tubes isn't as trivial or useful.
Regards,
Doo
- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul De Raymond Leclercq [mailto:Pderl@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:01 PM
To: Lee, Doo J [SFAE-GCSS-CRA]
Cc: sound@io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Testing the WE 417A
Hello Lee.
Well the best advice for testing any valve, is to test it at your operating
point!
Many people imagine that if valves test the same at the point given in a
testing manual then they are the same. This is NOT true! That is, it can
be but often isn't.
For example I have a considerable number of EC8010s; these incidentally I
prefer to 417a/5842 - I think that they are better.
Now some of these are not excellent at the test point but are fine at the
operating point I chose when using them.
Many valve testers are quite brutal; with valuable valves it is safer to
build a nice rig with a reasonable power supply providing your chosen
voltage - or better still use a variac
You can use a simple arrangement of batteries and a multi-turn pot of say
500 ohms to provide the bias. All you need then are meters to measure Va,
Ia and Vg.
Regards
Paul
=========================================================================
From: "Lee, Doo J [SFAE-GCSS-CRA]" <dlee@pica.army.mil>
Subject: RE: [JN] Testing the WE 417A
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:00:20 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n939
In my saga of testing the 417A, I've a bit of interesting finding. With the
TV2 tester, I 'shocked' the tubes by increasing the plate voltage from the
150v (test point) to over 200+v for a few seconds and then back to 150v. Lo
and behold, the tubes now are tested up to the same reading as the others.
Apparently, the 150v plate voltage is too low to make some of these tubes
happy or the tubes were not warmed up sufficiently.
Doo
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] testing tube output transformers (sound quality)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:22:09 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n729
- --part1_68.90de83f.273eda41_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Greets!
My Zenith clock radio project has me wondering how they managed to get so
much music thru such a small transformer. NOT using the original speaker :)
Is it simply trimming off the bass octaves?
Does anyone offer output transformers designed for limited bandwidth
applications, bi-amp or tri-amp?
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
- --part1_68.90de83f.273eda41_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>Greets!
<BR>
<BR>My Zenith clock radio project has me wondering how they managed to get so <BR>much music thru su
ch a small transformer. NOT using the original speaker :)
<BR>
<BR>Is it simply trimming off the bass octaves?
<BR>
<BR>Does anyone offer output transformers designed for limited bandwidth <BR>applications, bi-amp or
tri-amp?
<BR>
<BR>Happy Ears!
<BR>Al B^}
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_68.90de83f.273eda41_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: "Dave Slagle" <dslagle@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] testing tube output transformers (sound quality)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:51:27 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n730
> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- --MS_Mac_OE_3056831488_289108_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Does anyone offer output transformers designed for limited bandwidth
applications, bi-amp or tri-amp?
oh al,
i love it when you run your lure along the bottom....
not that i know of... but i do know of a swiss joe using the tango h series
(yeah the cheap ones) on his tweeter amp... now that makes sense... it has
no bass... but you don't want that in a tweeter anyways... and can you
honestly complain about a trannie rolling off at 100hz on an amp that does
from 10K up? hell for that situation i would make damn sure the core was
still in the picture at 10K...
its easy to get 8-9 octaves out of an output... 10 octaves is a task... then
placing them makes it even more difficult... 20-20K??? or 30-30K??? or
better yet 22.31415hz to 22.3141Khz...
take those 9 good octaves and overlap them a few extra octaves around the
crossover and you suddenly have bandwidth out the wazoo.... i would try to
make the trannies as similar as possible, same core material, geometry, wire
etc... and just optimise each one... don't look to cheap out on one or the
other... i have heard of many systems that use the best from one winder for
bass and the best from another for the top, and the two don't mix...
as a goof i would suggest to take your favorite trannie down to your
neighborhood kinko's winding shop and have them wind you a copy at 25% and
400%.... keep everything in proportion and see what happens.
dave
- --MS_Mac_OE_3056831488_289108_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [JN] testing tube output transformers (sound quality)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
Does anyone offer output transformers designed for limited bandwidth <BR>
applications, bi-amp or tri-amp? <BR>
<BR>
oh al, <BR>
<BR>
i love it when you run your lure along the bottom....<BR>
<BR>
not that i know of... but i do know of a swiss joe using the tango h series=
(yeah the cheap ones) on his tweeter amp... now that makes sense... it has =
no bass... but you don't want that in a tweeter anyways... and can you hones=
tly complain about a trannie rolling off at 100hz on an amp that does from 1=
0K up? hell for that situation i would make damn sure the core was sti=
ll in the picture at 10K... <BR>
<BR>
its easy to get 8-9 octaves out of an output... 10 octaves is a task... the=
n placing them makes it even more difficult... 20-20K??? or 30-30K??? =
or better yet 22.31415hz to 22.3141Khz... <BR>
<BR>
take those 9 good octaves and overlap them a few extra octaves around the c=
rossover and you suddenly have bandwidth out the wazoo.... i would try to ma=
ke the trannies as similar as possible, same core material, geometry, wire e=
tc... and just optimise each one... don't look to cheap out on one or the ot=
her... i have heard of many systems that use the best from one winder for ba=
ss and the best from another for the top, and the two don't mix...<BR>
<BR>
as a goof i would suggest to take your favorite trannie down to your neighb=
orhood kinko's winding shop and have them wind you a copy at 25% and 400%...=
. keep everything in proportion and see what happens.<BR>
<BR>
dave<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
- --MS_Mac_OE_3056831488_289108_MIME_Part--
=========================================================================
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Le_Cl=E9ac'h_Jean-Michel?=" <lecleach@paris.ensmp.fr>
Subject: [JN] testing tube preamp transformers
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:59:20 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n722
Hello,
While most American joenetters are playing now a strange game that for us
poor European looks a lot like Gorebushevism , I spent several days to test
and measure tube preamplifiers transformers with 600 ohms output.
With the help of some friends, thanks specially to our friends Joenetters
Christian Rintelen (Switzerland) and Thomas Mayer (Germany), I collected 5
different OPTs that can be used for tube preamplifier output.
Two of them were found in movie theater electronics or in scientific
instruments, they don't measure so well so I'll not continue to speak of
them.
The 3 other ones were:
AudioNote 10k-600 ohms
Tango NP-8
Lundahl 1660-18mA
Those transformers were connected in single-end to line (600ohms) mode.
On 100Hz signals, the secondary being loaded by a 600 ohms load (exactly 618
ohms), the reflected impedance at the primary of those transformers is:
AudioNote 10k-600 ohms : Zp = 11610 ohms
Tango NP-8 : Zp = 14068 ohms
Lundahl 1660-18mA : Zp = 18480 ohms
Here is an ASCII graph of the measurement set up:
(it can be necessary to copy the graph into a notepâd in order to view at it
in fixed width font like COURRIER)
Measurement set-up:
o-----C1-----o---------o
| | |
low | milliampemeter
frequency | |
sine L1 o o---o------o--------o
generator | )||( | | |
| | ( || ) | AC distortion
| | )||( R1 millivolts meter
| | ( || ) | meter |
| regulated )||( | | |
| DC supply o o---o------o--------o
| | |
o------------o---------o
|
ground
(Zout generator = 600 ohms)
C1 = 47 microFarad (polypropylen)
L1 = 200 H
R1 = 600 ohms
Distortion measurement were done from frequency rangeing from 17Hz to 400
Hz and with the DC current through the primary of the OT rangeing from 0 to
30 mA (due to the set-up some transformers could not be tested at such max
current)
I uploaded in the folder "public" on <www.xdrive.com> (login: joelist
;password : noise)
2 JPG graphs the name of which are OT600_a.jpg and OT600_b.jpg
Distortion behaviour with increasing current through primary: (Distortion
is measured on the 600 ohms load at the secondary)
On 500mV 100Hz test signal the AudioNote transformer has a total distortion
varying linearly from 0.09 % to 0.2% when current rises from 0 to 30 mA
On 500mV 100Hz test signal the Tango NP-8 has its distorsion passing from
0.04% to 0.03% from 0 to 10mA the its distortion evolves non linearly from
0.03 to 0.65 from 10mA to 21mA (due to core saturation may be)
On 500mV 100Hz test signal the Lundahl transformer has a total distortion
varying linearly from 0.02 % to 0.08% when current rises from 0 to 16.5mA
Distortion behaviour with frequency (with 300mV sine on the 600 ohms load at
the secondary) :
With the frequency decreasing from 400Hz to 17Hz , the AudioNote transformer
has a total distortion varying non linearly from 0.03% to 0.25%
With the frequency decreasing from 400Hz to 17Hz , the Tango NP_8
transformer has a total distortion varying non linearly from 0.02% to 0.075%
With the frequency decreasing from 400Hz to 17Hz , the Lundahl 1660_18mA
transformer has a total distortion varying non linearly from 0.01% to 0.07%
I could see that the very low distortion levels obtained both by the Tango
NP-8 and the Lundahl 1660_18mA were due to reduced H3, the spectrum
showing H5 +(some H3)
I would say that the AudioNote measures bad compared to the Tango NP-8 and
the Lundahl 1660_18mA. I was a bit disappointed of the result of those
transformers because I payed them 1300 French Francs each!
From 5 mA to 10mA I'll use the Tango NP-8 but the winner of that test is
surely the Lundahl 1660_18mA that possess an excellent behaviour.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] testing tube preamp transformers
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:05:20 +0000 (GMT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n723
A very useful post, many thanks.
Don't trust Audionote!
Simon
Simon Busbridge, BSc(Hons) PhD CPhys MInstP
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, [iso-8859-1] Le Cléac'h Jean-Michel wrote:
> Hello,
>
> While most American joenetters are playing now a strange game that for us
> poor European looks a lot like Gorebushevism , I spent several days to test
> and measure tube preamplifiers transformers with 600 ohms output.
>
> With the help of some friends, thanks specially to our friends Joenetters
> Christian Rintelen (Switzerland) and Thomas Mayer (Germany), I collected 5
> different OPTs that can be used for tube preamplifier output.
>
> Two of them were found in movie theater electronics or in scientific
> instruments, they don't measure so well so I'll not continue to speak of
> them.
>
> The 3 other ones were:
>
> AudioNote 10k-600 ohms
> Tango NP-8
> Lundahl 1660-18mA
>
> Those transformers were connected in single-end to line (600ohms) mode.
>
> On 100Hz signals, the secondary being loaded by a 600 ohms load (exactly 618
> ohms), the reflected impedance at the primary of those transformers is:
> AudioNote 10k-600 ohms : Zp = 11610 ohms
> Tango NP-8 : Zp = 14068 ohms
> Lundahl 1660-18mA : Zp = 18480 ohms
>
>
> Here is an ASCII graph of the measurement set up:
>
> (it can be necessary to copy the graph into a notepâd in order to view at it
> in fixed width font like COURRIER)
>
> Measurement set-up:
>
> o-----C1-----o---------o
> | | |
> low | milliampemeter
> frequency | |
> sine L1 o o---o------o--------o
> generator | )||( | | |
> | | ( || ) | AC distortion
> | | )||( R1 millivolts meter
> | | ( || ) | meter |
> | regulated )||( | | |
> | DC supply o o---o------o--------o
> | | |
> o------------o---------o
> |
> ground
>
> (Zout generator = 600 ohms)
> C1 = 47 microFarad (polypropylen)
> L1 = 200 H
> R1 = 600 ohms
>
> Distortion measurement were done from frequency rangeing from 17Hz to 400
> Hz and with the DC current through the primary of the OT rangeing from 0 to
> 30 mA (due to the set-up some transformers could not be tested at such max
> current)
>
> I uploaded in the folder "public" on <www.xdrive.com> (login: joelist
> ;password : noise)
> 2 JPG graphs the name of which are OT600_a.jpg and OT600_b.jpg
>
> Distortion behaviour with increasing current through primary: (Distortion
> is measured on the 600 ohms load at the secondary)
>
> On 500mV 100Hz test signal the AudioNote transformer has a total distortion
> varying linearly from 0.09 % to 0.2% when current rises from 0 to 30 mA
>
> On 500mV 100Hz test signal the Tango NP-8 has its distorsion passing from
> 0.04% to 0.03% from 0 to 10mA the its distortion evolves non linearly from
> 0.03 to 0.65 from 10mA to 21mA (due to core saturation may be)
>
> On 500mV 100Hz test signal the Lundahl transformer has a total distortion
> varying linearly from 0.02 % to 0.08% when current rises from 0 to 16.5mA
>
> Distortion behaviour with frequency (with 300mV sine on the 600 ohms load at
> the secondary) :
>
> With the frequency decreasing from 400Hz to 17Hz , the AudioNote transformer
> has a total distortion varying non linearly from 0.03% to 0.25%
> With the frequency decreasing from 400Hz to 17Hz , the Tango NP_8
> transformer has a total distortion varying non linearly from 0.02% to 0.075%
> With the frequency decreasing from 400Hz to 17Hz , the Lundahl 1660_18mA
> transformer has a total distortion varying non linearly from 0.01% to 0.07%
>
> I could see that the very low distortion levels obtained both by the Tango
> NP-8 and the Lundahl 1660_18mA were due to reduced H3, the spectrum
> showing H5 +(some H3)
>
> I would say that the AudioNote measures bad compared to the Tango NP-8 and
> the Lundahl 1660_18mA. I was a bit disappointed of the result of those
> transformers because I payed them 1300 French Francs each!
>
> From 5 mA to 10mA I'll use the Tango NP-8 but the winner of that test is
> surely the Lundahl 1660_18mA that possess an excellent behaviour.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [JN] testing tube preamp transformers
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:03:19 +0000 (GMT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n723
I suspect if they potted it the hf response would nose-dive. I agree
they are ugly - that is why I have not used them. I am told that the
Sowter's do not sound any good, but if you use them please let us know as
I for one am interested. I have used Simon Shilton's tranformers and
found them to be first rate.
Jean-Michel - would you be able to measure as I am sure to get some more?
Simon
Simon Busbridge, BSc(Hons) PhD CPhys MInstP
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, David Home wrote:
> To bad Lundahl doesn't pot their transformers or make it an option.
> I know I should care about these things, but they are too ugly to mount up top! 8^)
> Anyone tested or have experience with the Sowter 9040? It is listed as a 15K:600 50H 45ma max DC l
ine output transformer.
> Regards, David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Le Cléac'h Jean-Michel [mailto:lecleach@paris.ensmp.fr]
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 9:59 AM
> To: Joenet (E-Mail)
> Subject: [JN] testing tube preamp transformers
>
>
> Hello,
>
> While most American joenetters are playing now a strange game that for us
> poor European looks a lot like Gorebushevism , I spent several days to test
> and measure tube preamplifiers transformers with 600 ohms output.
>
> With the help of some friends, thanks specially to our friends Joenetters
> Christian Rintelen (Switzerland) and Thomas Mayer (Germany), I collected 5
> different OPTs that can be used for tube preamplifier output.
>
> Two of them were found in movie theater electronics or in scientific
> instruments, they don't measure so well so I'll not continue to speak of
> them.
>
> The 3 other ones were:
>
> AudioNote 10k-600 ohms
> Tango NP-8
> Lundahl 1660-18mA
>
> Those transformers were connected in single-end to line (600ohms) mode.
>
> On 100Hz signals, the secondary being loaded by a 600 ohms load (exactly 618
> ohms), the reflected impedance at the primary of those transformers is:
> AudioNote 10k-600 ohms : Zp = 11610 ohms
> Tango NP-8 : Zp = 14068 ohms
> Lundahl 1660-18mA : Zp = 18480 ohms
>
>
> Here is an ASCII graph of the measurement set up:
>
> (it can be necessary to copy the graph into a notepâd in order to view at it
> in fixed width font like COURRIER)
>
> Measurement set-up:
>
> o-----C1-----o---------o
> | | |
> low | milliampemeter
> frequency | |
> sine L1 o o---o------o--------o
> generator | )||( | | |
> | | ( || ) | AC distortion
> | | )||( R1 millivolts meter
> | | ( || ) | meter |
> | regulated )||( | | |
> | DC supply o o---o------o--------o
> | | |
> o------------o---------o
> |
> ground
>
> (Zout generator = 600 ohms)
> C1 = 47 microFarad (polypropylen)
> L1 = 200 H
> R1 = 600 ohms
>
> Distortion measurement were done from frequency rangeing from 17Hz to 400
> Hz and with the DC current through the primary of the OT rangeing from 0 to
> 30 mA (due to the set-up some transformers could not be tested at such max
> current)
>
> I uploaded in the folder "public" on <www.xdrive.com> (login: joelist
> ;password : noise)
> 2 JPG graphs the name of which are OT600_a.jpg and OT600_b.jpg
>
> Distortion behaviour with increasing current through primary: (Distortion
> is measured on the 600 ohms load at the secondary)
>
> On 500mV 100Hz test signal the AudioNote transformer has a total distortion
> varying linearly from 0.09 % to 0.2% when current rises from 0 to 30 mA
>
> On 500mV 100Hz test signal the Tango NP-8 has its distorsion passing from
> 0.04% to 0.03% from 0 to 10mA the its distortion evolves non linearly from
> 0.03 to 0.65 from 10mA to 21mA (due to core saturation may be)
>
> On 500mV 100Hz test signal the Lundahl transformer has a to