Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 2
=========================================================================
From: "Paul@13E1.com" <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: [JN] V1907
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:34:57 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n615
Does anybody have data for this type?
Thanks,
Paul
=========================================================================
From: Robert C Chambers <rchamber@norwich.edu>
Subject: [JN] Vacation in Maine
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:07:38 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n227
Hello-
I'm going to be in the Brunswick/Portland, Maine area next week on
vacation. I'll take some SPs along. But I'm wondering: are there are
any good audio, tube DIY, surplus source destinations in that area? TIA.
Regards,
Robert
=========================================================================
From: "Michael and Bonnie Thomas" <thomas@cybertours.com>
Subject: [JN] RE: Vacation in Maine
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 17:58:45 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n228
Robert,
I live in the Wells-Kennebunk Area of Maine (30 minutes S. of Portland)
closest thing to Surplus are the roaming hamfests, which there none till the
fall. There are no real decent shops around.
There are some suite deals to be found occasionally on vinyl from the
plethora of flea markets around.
Cheers,
Mike Thomas
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Vacuum tube computer
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:37:24 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n774
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In a message dated 1/4/01 4:03:19 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
retrovox@bigpond.com writes:
>
I use to get inventory tapes from a Univac 8 (tube) to run on a 1108 (SS).
Old ears!
Al B^}
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/4/01 4:0
3:19 PM US Mountain Standard Time, <BR>retrovox@bigpond.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px
; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">http://www.smh.com.au/news/0101/05/national/national11.html</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>I use to get inventory tapes from a Univac 8 (tube) to run on a 1108 (SS).
<BR>
<BR>Old ears!
<BR>Al B^}
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_b7.a43e10a.27866334_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] Vacuum tube computer
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:55:43 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n774
it was turned off the year I was born
<http://www.smh.com.au/news/0101/05/national/national11.html>
David Crittle
retrovox@bigpond.com
<http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~retrovoxaudio>
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vacuum tube computer
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 05:57:09 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n775
David Crittle wrote:
>
> it was turned off the year I was born
>
> <http://www.smh.com.au/news/0101/05/national/national11.html>
Very cool.
A big chunk of a vacuum tube computer from 1949 (IIRC) is on display in
one of the new Engineering buildings on the North Campus of the
University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. I stumbled across it when I was
snooping around for surplus junk. I doubt I will ever again see that
many octal-socket tubes packed that tightly together. They are
positioned horizontally, and the effect is like an extremely dense
marquee. From the back side, just the filament wiring alone represents a
massive investment of soldering & routing. I don't recall the total
number of tubes, but I remember figuring that at 6.3v X 1A/tube, the
heaters alone would require several megawatts. When dinosaurs roamed the
campuses...
Rick
=========================================================================
From: "Eric Weitzman" <eweitzman@acm.org>
Subject: RE: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:48:16 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n982
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Someone actually asked Jack if he tried LEDs. He said they sounded bad.
- - Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On Behalf
Of TubeGarden@aol.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 1:05 pm
To: sound@io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Greets!
I tried LEDs a year or two ago, and then found a battery under the grid
load sounded better.
Now I am using two 6X5GT tubes in series under the center tap of a 2.5Vac
filament transformer for a pair of 45 tubes. This provides 34 volts of bias.
Under the cathodes of a 6N1P, I have a 6AS7G wired grid to anode which
drops a volt each triode in this circuit.
I have an 80, but haven't tried it :)
I am very fond of the sound of glass diodes as bias networks.
Happy ears!
Al B^}
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D462414221-24092001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Someone actually asked Jack if he tried LEDs. He said they =
sounded=20
bad.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D462414221-24092001><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D462414221-24092001><FONT color=3D#0000ff>-=20
Eric</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
owner-sound@lists.io.com=20
[mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]<B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>TubeGarden@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 24, 2001 1:05 =
pm<BR><B>To:</B> sound@io.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JN] vacuum tube =
diodes=20
in place of cathode resistors<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Greets! <BR><BR>I tried LEDs a =
year or two=20
ago, and then found a battery under the grid load sounded better. =
<BR><BR>Now=20
I am using two 6X5GT tubes in series under the center tap of a 2.5Vac =
filament=20
transformer for a pair of 45 tubes. This provides 34 volts of bias.=20
<BR><BR>Under the cathodes of a 6N1P, I have a 6AS7G wired grid to =
anode which=20
drops a volt each triode in this circuit. <BR><BR>I have an 80, but =
haven't=20
tried it :) <BR><BR>I am very fond of the sound of glass diodes as =
bias=20
networks. <BR><BR>Happy ears! <BR>Al B^}=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:04:58 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n982
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Greets!
I tried LEDs a year or two ago, and then found a battery under the grid load
sounded better.
Now I am using two 6X5GT tubes in series under the center tap of a 2.5Vac
filament transformer for a pair of 45 tubes. This provides 34 volts of bias.
Under the cathodes of a 6N1P, I have a 6AS7G wired grid to anode which drops
a volt each triode in this circuit.
I have an 80, but haven't tried it :)
I am very fond of the sound of glass diodes as bias networks.
Happy ears!
Al B^}
- --part1_65.1b2cf7b3.28e0ebea_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>Greets!
<BR>
<BR>I tried LEDs a year or two ago, and then found a battery under the grid load sounded better.
<BR>
<BR>Now I am using two 6X5GT tubes in series under the center tap of a 2.5Vac filament transformer f
or a pair of 45 tubes. This provides 34 volts of bias.
<BR>
<BR>Under the cathodes of a 6N1P, I have a 6AS7G wired grid to anode which drops a volt each triode
in this circuit.
<BR>
<BR>I have an 80, but haven't tried it :)
<BR>
<BR>I am very fond of the sound of glass diodes as bias networks.
<BR>
<BR>Happy ears!
<BR>Al B^}
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_65.1b2cf7b3.28e0ebea_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: "Fred Volz" <fcv@emotiveaudio.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:28:10 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n982
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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We use LEDs on the cathodes of our voltage amplifiers in both pre-amp =
circuits and power amplifiers (front stages). In our circuits, they =
sound very good and are dead quiet--no cap required. As for Jack's =
comments about the "sound" of LEDs, I can only assume that it is circuit =
dependent. It certainly is not the transformers as we use his outputs;)=20
I must say, however, that I find it slightly amusing that Jack would =
comment on how the LEDs sounded as his first statement on the subject. =
In my conversations with him, he has always stressed the greater =
significance of quantifiable performance measures. I might have expected =
him to refer to the less-than-perfect linearity of LEDs as reason enough =
to reject their use. Please don't misunderstand, I REALLY love his =
transformers. And, I believe they sound as good as they do because he =
has spent so much time perfecting his designs' bench performance. But, =
he has been rather strong in his position that "sound" is not an =
acceptable criteria for evaluating a design. I think I'll have to give =
him a call about this; I hope he is feeling well:)
Fred Volz
fcv@emotiveaudio.com
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Eric Weitzman=20
To: TubeGarden@aol.com ; sound@io.com=20
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Someone actually asked Jack if he tried LEDs. He said they sounded =
bad.
=20
- Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On =
Behalf Of TubeGarden@aol.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 1:05 pm
To: sound@io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Greets!=20
I tried LEDs a year or two ago, and then found a battery under the =
grid load sounded better.=20
Now I am using two 6X5GT tubes in series under the center tap of a =
2.5Vac filament transformer for a pair of 45 tubes. This provides 34 =
volts of bias.=20
Under the cathodes of a 6N1P, I have a 6AS7G wired grid to anode =
which drops a volt each triode in this circuit.=20
I have an 80, but haven't tried it :)=20
I am very fond of the sound of glass diodes as bias networks.=20
Happy ears!=20
Al B^}=20
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>We use LEDs on the cathodes of our =
voltage=20
amplifiers in both pre-amp circuits and power amplifiers (front stages). =
In our=20
circuits, they sound very good and are dead quiet--no cap required. As =
for=20
Jack's comments about the "sound" of LEDs, I can only assume that =
it is=20
circuit dependent. It certainly is not the transformers as we use his =
outputs;)=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>I must say, however, that I find it =
slightly=20
amusing that </FONT><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>Jack would comment on =
how the LEDs=20
sounded as his first statement on the subject. In my conversations with =
him, he=20
has always stressed the greater significance of quantifiable=20
performance measures. I might have expected him to refer to=20
the less-than-perfect linearity of LEDs as reason enough to =
reject=20
their use. Please don't misunderstand, I REALLY love his transformers. =
And, I=20
believe they sound as good as they do because he has spent so much =
time=20
perfecting his designs' bench performance. But, he has been rather =
strong in his=20
position that "sound" is not an acceptable criteria for evaluating a =
design. I=20
think I'll have to give him a call about this; I hope he is feeling=20
well:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>Fred Volz</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:fcv@emotiveaudio.com">fcv@emotiveaudio.com</A></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:eweitzman@acm.org" title=3Deweitzman@acm.org>Eric =
Weitzman</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:TubeGarden@aol.com"=20
title=3DTubeGarden@aol.com>TubeGarden@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:sound@io.com" title=3Dsound@io.com>sound@io.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 24, =
2001 5:48=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [JN] vacuum tube =
diodes in=20
place of cathode resistors</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D462414221-24092001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Someone actually asked Jack if he tried LEDs. He said they =
sounded=20
bad.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D462414221-24092001><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D462414221-24092001><FONT color=3D#0000ff>-=20
Eric</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com">owner-sound@lists.io.com</A> =
[<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com">mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com<=
/A>]<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:TubeGarden@aol.com">TubeGarden@aol.com</A><BR><B>Sent:</B>=
=20
Monday, September 24, 2001 1:05 pm<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:sound@io.com">sound@io.com</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[JN]=20
vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode =
resistors<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Greets! <BR><BR>I tried LEDs a =
year or two=20
ago, and then found a battery under the grid load sounded better.=20
<BR><BR>Now I am using two 6X5GT tubes in series under the center =
tap of a=20
2.5Vac filament transformer for a pair of 45 tubes. This provides 34 =
volts=20
of bias. <BR><BR>Under the cathodes of a 6N1P, I have a 6AS7G wired =
grid to=20
anode which drops a volt each triode in this circuit. <BR><BR>I have =
an 80,=20
but haven't tried it :) <BR><BR>I am very fond of the sound of glass =
diodes=20
as bias networks. <BR><BR>Happy ears! <BR>Al B^}=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: Phil <tube@jump.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:17:11 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n983
Manfred Huber wrote:
> First thing to ask is: what type of LED. I recently measured the
> dynamic impedance of about 30 different LEDs. I found that the
> old dark red high current (nom. 20mA) types are best in this regard.
> All the LEDs I tested had a dyn. impedance which was 10 to 100 times
> higher than that of the HLMP6000 which is the type I use for voltage
> reference applications.
What kind of LEDs are these HLMP6000s? Is that the only part number
that was good, or is there a family of LEDs that have similar specs? (Nice
schematic, makes it very clear how you are using them.)
Thanks,
Phil
>
> The schematic is at: <http://home.t-online.de/~mhuber/ph6533.gif>
>
> a picture of the implementation is at:
>
> <http://home.t-online.de/~mhuber/ph6533.jpg>
>
> Regards
> Manfred
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: RE: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:21:05 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n983
Hello Eric,
>Someone actually asked Jack if he tried LEDs. He said they sounded bad.
just because they sounded bad in Jacks application does not
necessarily mean that the always have to sound bad.
First thing to ask is: what type of LED. I recently measured the
dynamic impedance of about 30 different LEDs. I found that the
old dark red high current (nom. 20mA) types are best in this regard.
All the LEDs I tested had a dyn. impedance which was 10 to 100 times
higher than that of the HLMP6000 which is the type I use for voltage
reference applications.
An other important thing is the amount of ac current swing seen by
the LED when set into relation to the dc current through the LED.
Ideally we have a large dc current and at the same time a small
ac swing. This helps keeping voltage distortion generated by the
LED low.
The dyn. impedance of the LED about halves when doubling the current.
Applying a high bias current helps us getting a low dyn. impedance.
I have used LEDs in the cathode circuits of my latest phono stage
with very good results. The tubes are operating at a bias current
of 1ma and the ac voltage swing is much lower than this.
In this design I use simple transistor current sources that are
powered by the heater supply to apply 16mA of dc bias current to
the LEDs.
The schematic is at: <http://home.t-online.de/~mhuber/ph6533.gif>
a picture of the implementation is at:
<http://home.t-online.de/~mhuber/ph6533.jpg>
Regards
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Re: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:29:33 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n984
Phil,
>What kind of LEDs are these HLMP6000s?
They are ordinary dark red LEDs. Manufacturer is
Aligent (former Hewlett Packard semiconductor division)
The HLMP6000 comes in a subminiature case which
can be used for surface mounting as well as for
through the hole mounting.
The data sheet is at:
<http://literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5988-1856EN.pdf>
Have a look at figure 2 on page 12!
You can buy the HLMP6000 at Newark for $.31/ea
>Is that the only part number that was good,
>or is there a family of LEDs that have similar specs?
I used to use the HLMP1000 which was electrically similar but
came in a standard 3mm LED case. The dyn. impedance of this type
was even lower but unfortunately they don't make them any more.
>(Nice schematic, makes it very clear how you are using them.)
Thanks!
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: "gtrmkr" <gtrmkr@wans.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:48:01 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n994
6AH4 linestage w/6x5gt in the cathode sounds pretty sweet, too.
Jim
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] vacuum tube diodes in place of cathode resistors
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:18:09 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n994
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In a message dated 10/18/01 10:52:50 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
gtrmkr@wans.net writes:
> 6AH4 linestage w/6X5GT in the cathode sounds pretty sweet, too.
>
> Jim
>
Greets!
It seems the bias voltage using 6X5GT can be lower than speced for an R bias
cathode.
Sure sounds good :)
Happy Ears!
Al
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<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/18/01
10:52:50 AM US Mountain Standard Time, gtrmkr@wans.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PA
DDING-LEFT: 5px">6AH4 linestage w/6X5GT in the cathode sounds pretty sweet, too.<BR>
<BR>
Jim<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Greets!<BR>
<BR>
It seems the bias voltage using 6X5GT can be lower than speced for an R bias cathode.<BR>
<BR>
Sure sounds good :)<BR>
<BR>
Happy Ears!<BR>
Al <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
From: Jim Charron <jimpcn@ionsys.com>
Subject: [JN] Vacuum tube EQ ?
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:33:58 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n179
Hay Joes;
Has anyone seen a D.I.Y. project for a vacuum tube equilizer , on-line ?
Thanks
Jim Charron.
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@orion.it.luc.edu>
Subject: [JN] Vacuum tube op amps
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:07:49 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n092
Does anyone have a copy of this old article from Glass Audio?
I had a wild thought tonight. The problem of an all tube shunt regulator
is that the error circuit for the shunt tube is hard to design (at least
for me...). I was thinking that since an op amp does the job in Allen's
SuperReg, perhaps I could make a vacuum tube op amp. (I just prefer
working with tubes and if I could build a constant current sourced shunt
reg without a PCB, I'd be happy...)
There was an old article in GA, call "Applications for Vacuum Tube Op Amps"
sometime in 1992. The oldest of my sporadic collection is 1994. Does
anyone have this article?
Thanks!!!
Tom
- --------------------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America http://www.lowther-america.com
Oris 150 Horns http://orion.it.luc.edu/~tronan
=========================================================================
From: RUngemach@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Vaic 300B tubes (shameless commerce)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:09:25 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n277
Hello Joes
For Joenet Members only.
I have recently received a shipment of Vaic 300B SL C37 from the factory.
These tubes have the super long life filaments (5 year warranty)
with C37 shape glass.
They are a direct plug in for 300B amps using standard tubes.
I'd like to get some opinions and comparisons from serious 300B enthusiasts
using various combinations of gear.....
If you would be interested in getting a matched pair of these tubes for
a reduced cost in exchange for your comments, please contact me via email.
Please see the Vaic website at
http://home.t-online.de/home/vaic-valve/
For pictures and specs.
Thanks
Bob Ungemach
AMR
A Music Resource
Rungemach@aol.com
=========================================================================
From: "Paul Cambie" <cambie@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vale
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:08:57 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n500
Hi Tom, I am a "low budget" Joe's. It would be fair to say I don't even
*have* a budget. I'm sure you have my *budget* for a month in your pocket
as loose change :-)) I sure regret lacking the necessary wealth which I
gather is entry level for this group. I had an idea I might not be alone in
this category though, and have enjoyed and followed the JoeNet all but
fanatically for over a year now - I've learnt so very much and enjoyed the
personalities and smiled a thousand times at the passion of many members.
Some folks I feel I "know" closer than some of my in-the-flesh friends!
> . . .many of the members are tired of the junk and welfare posts.
Well, actually, I have a keen focus on use of junk and cheep/recycled parts
. . . .for self evident reasons. I apologise if I have wasted members time
in any way because of this.
>This should not be what this group is all about.
OK, Tom, I gather you're a senior member; your call. I'll heed your advice.
>He put the same question other places.
Sorry, I failed to read all the rules about asking something in different
places; my apologies.
>It is nice to have a budget but after a while it is nonsense. Why bother.
Yeah, my wife says much the same thing. I guess I should surrender my
hobby. Thanks for your advice, it's sure appreciated. Perhaps I could come
back into the JoeNet group when I get a better paid job - I could sure use
one of those, let me tell ya! :-))
>When he was ignored the first time, he did it again.
Guilty as charged; I confess, I've repeated my bizarre enquiries once or
twice; I sorta thought a little tolerance would be shown in my case, being a
novice, but fair enough; I can understand that it must be annoying for
senior members.
> > > but you should not be spending your food stamp allotment on audio.
Fair call. You're dead right - those few dollars a week would be better
spent elsewhere. My family, who I love dearly, for a start! Again,
"thanks".
>The correct parts are cheap, if he can't afford them, he is in the wrong
hobby.
Well actually, Tom, for me the correct parts are anything but cheep. So I
see I'm in the wrong hobby; thanks for the advice - I'll quit.
I have no wish to be part of a hobby or this group with the financial entry
requirements, the rules, and the intolerant attitudes that you have, and I
appreciate and will follow your advice to go away.
Seeya!
Paul
=========================================================================
From: "P. de R. L." <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vale
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:08:25 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n500
Paul!
STOP!
Tell him to bugger off - I for one do not have those particular intolerant
attitudes, and I am sure that many on this list would agree.
Of course, I do have SOME intolerant attitudes, but after all, audio is a
very subjective business.
I hope you'll stay, and best of luck - perhaps that job will turn up and you
can buy silly silver transformers and all the rest of the snake oil!
best wishes,
Paul de R. Leclercq
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Cambie <cambie@ozemail.com.au>
To: Tom Cook <aopen1@netzero.net>; <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] Vale
> Hi Tom, I am a "low budget" Joe's. It would be fair to say I don't even
> *have* a budget. I'm sure you have my *budget* for a month in your pocket
> as loose change :-)) I sure regret lacking the necessary wealth which I
> gather is entry level for this group. I had an idea I might not be alone
in
> this category though, and have enjoyed and followed the JoeNet all but
> fanatically for over a year now - I've learnt so very much and enjoyed the
> personalities and smiled a thousand times at the passion of many members.
> Some folks I feel I "know" closer than some of my in-the-flesh friends!
>
> > . . .many of the members are tired of the junk and welfare posts.
>
> Well, actually, I have a keen focus on use of junk and cheep/recycled
parts
> . . . .for self evident reasons. I apologise if I have wasted members
time
> in any way because of this.
>
> >This should not be what this group is all about.
>
> OK, Tom, I gather you're a senior member; your call. I'll heed your
advice.
>
> >He put the same question other places.
>
> Sorry, I failed to read all the rules about asking something in different
> places; my apologies.
>
> >It is nice to have a budget but after a while it is nonsense. Why bother.
>
> Yeah, my wife says much the same thing. I guess I should surrender my
> hobby. Thanks for your advice, it's sure appreciated. Perhaps I could
come
> back into the JoeNet group when I get a better paid job - I could sure use
> one of those, let me tell ya! :-))
>
> >When he was ignored the first time, he did it again.
>
>
> Guilty as charged; I confess, I've repeated my bizarre enquiries once or
> twice; I sorta thought a little tolerance would be shown in my case, being
a
> novice, but fair enough; I can understand that it must be annoying for
> senior members.
>
> > > > but you should not be spending your food stamp allotment on audio.
>
>
> Fair call. You're dead right - those few dollars a week would be better
> spent elsewhere. My family, who I love dearly, for a start! Again,
> "thanks".
>
> >The correct parts are cheap, if he can't afford them, he is in the wrong
> hobby.
>
>
> Well actually, Tom, for me the correct parts are anything but cheep. So I
> see I'm in the wrong hobby; thanks for the advice - I'll quit.
>
> I have no wish to be part of a hobby or this group with the financial
entry
> requirements, the rules, and the intolerant attitudes that you have, and I
> appreciate and will follow your advice to go away.
>
> Seeya!
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Raymond Koonce <rkoonce@tyler.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vale
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:26:51 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n501
Hi Kurt, Paul and Joes,
I'm a lurker mostly, being somewhat intimidated by the knowledge on this group and
my lack thereof. But I've really learned a lot on this list and changed my focus
from collecting/restoring vintage gear to building my own. I've just about finished
my second SE amp (2A3) and I'll be on to my third soon. 99% of what I've learned, I
got here and on RAT, but it's much more civil here, hence, more enjoyable. I can't
imagine a more fun and rewarding hobby, and I hope Paul will stay and contribute
here. Leave the flames to RAT if you must flame.
Thanks to fellow Texan Joe for running this list.
Regards to all,
Raymond
Kurt Steffensen wrote:
> Hi Paul.
>
> Sounds to me like you are a genuine Joe ;-)
>
> Most Joes are really cheapskates..
> I to get kind of bored by the one Dollar budgets , from time to time.
> But it is as good an approach to this hobby as any.
>
> There is nothing right or wrong in this art of valve amplifiers - or solid
> states , for that matter.
>
> I guarantee you can do high end stuff with solid state , DHT , SE amps , PP amps
> , SRPP , CF , Feedback designs , none feedback ,
> CCS , choke load , inter stage , carbon , film , WW , expensive components ,
> cheap components , etc. etc.
> And you can make terrible sound with all these as well. It all depends upon the
> man behind , and the one that is going to listen to the thing.
>
> We Joes prefere tubes , and belives they are usually the best for the music we
> love.
>
> I see you are from Australia ?
> There are several member on this list from down under , I am 100 % positive ,
> that these guys won't mind giving you a hand.
> You may also email me private , and tell me about your equipment and budget ,
> and I will let you know some of my "low budget secrets".
>
> I am always worried about newbies messing around with high Voltage , so try
> contact some of them Aussie friends down there.
> I have spoken to about all of them , and they are so god damn nice people.
>
> I have also wondered about what a few posts lately were all about.
> I would hate to see the usual good tone and gentleman approach be lost. Its such
> an important tool in this multi cultural media.
>
> Please , ask as much as you wish here on the list , Paul.
> There are no such thing as stupid questions.
> Only stupidity lies in the act of not asking.
>
> > I sure regret lacking the necessary wealth which I
> > gather is entry level for this group.
>
> Oh boy , oh boy. You couldn't be more wrong , Paul ;-)
>
> 50 % of the post on this list is about buying a 2 Dollar main trannie from AES ,
> and hit it with a hammer until it accepts full idle current.
> Then some old used TV parts from the junkyard nearby , are breaked in for a few
> days , in order to get them used to audio signals.
> Finally it is all build in to an old cigar box , and painted with a dry
> lipstick.
> No on/off switch , - we don't like the sound of these...;-)
>
> Not really my cup of tea , but it is FUN.......
> Joes have fun with tubes , as simple as that.
>
> Take a look at the NyNoise pix , and you will see what I mean..
> These are not all cheep , or banged with a hammer , but they witness the love ,
> thrill and enthusiasm that we Joes put in our hobby.
> It is a matter of spirit , art and joy. ( Am I stretching it to far here ? )
>
> No space technology or multi k$ budgets...
>
> Within two years , you will light your first SE valve amp. And from that time ,
> I am sure the is no turning back.
>
> Welcome , at Joelist , Paul.
>
> - Kurt the mad Valve Viking ;-)
> I am on high budget though...
> Excotic E , C and O cores...( Potted ofcourse )
> Direct heated EU-triodes....( Yup , thats true ;-)
> Paper in oil. ( 9 zero middleEast oil )
> Real T-attenuators. ( All RHQMF resistors )
> Genuine Cathode Followers.( Blessed by Viking gods , at the midsummer fullmoon )
>
> All valve regulated PSU's.. ( Tickled for hours , untill they sounded sweet )
>
> That's my religion. It its not the only way to do it , but it is the way , my
> ears and the incidents had lead me.
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vale
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:26:30 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n501
Hi Paul.
Sounds to me like you are a genuine Joe ;-)
Most Joes are really cheapskates..
I to get kind of bored by the one Dollar budgets , from time to time.
But it is as good an approach to this hobby as any.
There is nothing right or wrong in this art of valve amplifiers - or solid
states , for that matter.
I guarantee you can do high end stuff with solid state , DHT , SE amps , PP amps
, SRPP , CF , Feedback designs , none feedback ,
CCS , choke load , inter stage , carbon , film , WW , expensive components ,
cheap components , etc. etc.
And you can make terrible sound with all these as well. It all depends upon the
man behind , and the one that is going to listen to the thing.
We Joes prefere tubes , and belives they are usually the best for the music we
love.
I see you are from Australia ?
There are several member on this list from down under , I am 100 % positive ,
that these guys won't mind giving you a hand.
You may also email me private , and tell me about your equipment and budget ,
and I will let you know some of my "low budget secrets".
I am always worried about newbies messing around with high Voltage , so try
contact some of them Aussie friends down there.
I have spoken to about all of them , and they are so god damn nice people.
I have also wondered about what a few posts lately were all about.
I would hate to see the usual good tone and gentleman approach be lost. Its such
an important tool in this multi cultural media.
Please , ask as much as you wish here on the list , Paul.
There are no such thing as stupid questions.
Only stupidity lies in the act of not asking.
> I sure regret lacking the necessary wealth which I
> gather is entry level for this group.
Oh boy , oh boy. You couldn't be more wrong , Paul ;-)
50 % of the post on this list is about buying a 2 Dollar main trannie from AES ,
and hit it with a hammer until it accepts full idle current.
Then some old used TV parts from the junkyard nearby , are breaked in for a few
days , in order to get them used to audio signals.
Finally it is all build in to an old cigar box , and painted with a dry
lipstick.
No on/off switch , - we don't like the sound of these...;-)
Not really my cup of tea , but it is FUN.......
Joes have fun with tubes , as simple as that.
Take a look at the NyNoise pix , and you will see what I mean..
These are not all cheep , or banged with a hammer , but they witness the love ,
thrill and enthusiasm that we Joes put in our hobby.
It is a matter of spirit , art and joy. ( Am I stretching it to far here ? )
No space technology or multi k$ budgets...
Within two years , you will light your first SE valve amp. And from that time ,
I am sure the is no turning back.
Welcome , at Joelist , Paul.
- - Kurt the mad Valve Viking ;-)
I am on high budget though...
Excotic E , C and O cores...( Potted ofcourse )
Direct heated EU-triodes....( Yup , thats true ;-)
Paper in oil. ( 9 zero middleEast oil )
Real T-attenuators. ( All RHQMF resistors )
Genuine Cathode Followers.( Blessed by Viking gods , at the midsummer fullmoon )
All valve regulated PSU's.. ( Tickled for hours , untill they sounded sweet )
That's my religion. It its not the only way to do it , but it is the way , my
ears and the incidents had lead me.
=========================================================================
From: Owen Young <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vale
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:39:59 +1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n501
Paul
I don't recall seeing the orig post to you, so I assume that it was a
private email.
Intolerance and rudeness does not represent the members of this list.
I've been on this list over 2yrs and enjoyed civility and freely given
advice, engendered by the Sound Practices publication.
Owen
> > . . .many of the members are tired of the junk and welfare posts.
> >The correct parts are cheap, if he can't afford them, he is in the wrong
> hobby.
>
=========================================================================
From: Owen Young <oyoung@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vale
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:07:58 +1200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n502
Kurt Steffensen wrote:
> Finally it is all build in to an old cigar box , and painted with a dry
> lipstick.
Hey, keep your fetishes off this list Kurt!! :-O
Owen
(ps. Received my snailmail yet?)
=========================================================================
From: "P. de R. L." <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: [JN] Vale, parallel feed, etc., ad nauseam
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:14:48 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n504
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0167_01BF99C3.D0971D20
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello.
A quick line to say how much I appreciated the warm support offered to =
Paul Cambie after what shall be known hereinafter as "The Thomas Cook =
Affair".
I am very happy to be associated with this group.
Good luck to you all.
Paul de Raymond Leclercq
- ------=_NextPart_000_0167_01BF99C3.D0971D20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3D"Century Schoolbook" =
size=3D2>Hello.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3D"Century Schoolbook" size=3D2>A quick =
line to say=20
how much I appreciated the warm support offered to Paul Cambie after =
what shall=20
be known hereinafter as "The Thomas Cook Affair".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3D"Century Schoolbook" size=3D2>I am =
very happy to be=20
associated with this group.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3D"Century Schoolbook" size=3D2>Good =
luck to you=20
all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3D"Century Schoolbook" size=3D2>Paul de =
Raymond=20
Leclercq</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0167_01BF99C3.D0971D20--
=========================================================================
From: David Bardes <David_Bardes@zd.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vale - YIKES!
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:05:03 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n500
Paul,
Wait! Hold on!!
>Well actually, Tom, for me the correct parts are anything but cheep. So I
>see I'm in the wrong hobby; thanks for the advice - I'll quit.
I'm sorrry you took Tom's words to heart. This list is an invaluable
resource, and so in an attempt to keep the noise level down, we do have
some conventions BUT my experience on this list has been one of inclusion
and not exclusion. Please don't let a bad experience keep you from enjoying
a great hobby.
Paul, if you have a really limited budget, there are ways to make great
improvements in sound quality from very modest parts! A great tube project
on a budget is upgrading a tube powered table top radio! Great warm tube
sound for very little $$$. Then add an a jack for your portable CD player
and voila! you have a nice sound system.
Upgrading a solid state amp that you find at the swap meet with some beefy
power supply parts will make an amazing improvements in sound quality. Some
of my first projects were upgrading low cost speakers with some clay and
sticks of wood - amazing results!
I've learned a whole bunch from patient folks on this list who took the
time to lead me in the right direction - Don't give up!
Best,
David
=========================================================================
From: "Gary E. Kaufman" <gkaufman@bu.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] Vale - YIKES!
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:58:38 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n501
David -
Just a quick note - many many tube radios were "All American 5" or AA5
design and use one of several common tube sets where the filament string
adds up to 120v. These have NO TRANSFORMER and adding a cd input will be
dangerous at best and lethal at worse. Remember that the line cord is NOT
POLARIZED and the chassis is at ground if the plug is one way and at 120vac
the other way around. I learned this many years ago when I first started
collecting antique radios. I had my scope turn on itself when I hooked up
some test leads!!! I had grounded the scope to 115v. Fortunately I lived
to tell about it.
Still your comments are well taken. I have a small console amplifier (SE
6BQ5) that I paid $5 for at a hamfest. It blew me away when I first heard
it. It is a pea-shooter at best, but sounds amazing. Pushing the lower
edge of audio is also a useful act - I wouldn't trade my "DC-Darling" for
any amp I've seen yet!
- Gary
EMAIL: gkaufman@the-planet.org
Web: http://www.the-planet.org
> Paul, if you have a really limited budget, there are ways to make great
> improvements in sound quality from very modest parts! A great tube project
> on a budget is upgrading a tube powered table top radio! Great warm tube
> sound for very little $$$. Then add an a jack for your portable CD player
> and voila! you have a nice sound system.
> Best,
> David
=========================================================================
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [JN] Vale - YIKES!
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:50:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n502
Gary E. Kaufman wrote, in the same sentence :
>the lower edge of audio
and :
>my "DC-Darling"
Hey! Watch what you say about my girl!
;-)
- -j
=========================================================================
From: "Gary E. Kaufman" <gkaufman@bu.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] Vale - YIKES!
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:28:04 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n502
J -
Don't worry - this girl's on a pretty high pedestal! I was just referring
to cost - probably $4 in tubes, some left over iron and >gasp< electrolytic
caps. Even >silicon< diodes. Heck, my line cord isn't even "audiophool"
quality :}
Can you just imagine if we took Cinderella out of her rags and dressed her
up? Hubba-Hubba.
And she's not your girl - or I'll see you on the playground after school...
- Gary
EMAIL: gkaufman@the-planet.org
Web: http://www.the-planet.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
> Behalf Of Ellen Oler
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 6:50 AM
> To: Joenet
> Subject: RE: [JN] Vale - YIKES!
>
>
> Gary E. Kaufman wrote, in the same sentence :
>
> >the lower edge of audio
>
> and :
>
> >my "DC-Darling"
>
> Hey! Watch what you say about my girl!
>
> ;-)
>
> -j
>
=========================================================================
From: "Multi-Volti Devices" <multi-volti@softhouse.com>
Subject: [JN] Valley & Wallman copy found at bookstore
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:50:25 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n168
As mentioned in a previous posting, somehow I left a request for automated
information telling me when a copy of the Valley & Wallman Vacuum Tube
Amplifiers book became available thru on-line bookstores.
I don't need one, so I have been forwarding it to the Joelist. Eventually
everyone on the list will have it!
If someone thinks I shouldn't do this, please let me know (well, one cranky
email I might ignore. If I get >1 I'll quit).
Subject: ABE want matches
> The following wants have been matched by ABE:
> Your Want:# A2310205 Title: Vacuum Tube Amplifiers; Author: Valley &
Wallman; Publisher: McGraw-Hill;
> Has been matched with the following book(s):
> ----------
> Vacuum Tube Amplifiers by Valley, George E., Jr., and Wallman, Henry, eds.
McGraw-Hill Book Company 1948 New York fair to good, ex-lib. 743 illus.,
figures, charts, appendices, index,library stamp inside front flyleaf, small
rough spots inside rear bd &flyleaf June 2, 1999 (Keywords: electronics
high-frequency radar wwii vacuum tubes)
> The priceof the book is US$ 37.50
> Please reference the seller's book # books012750 when ordering.
>
> The seller is Ground Zero Books, Ltd.
> P.O. Box 1046, Blair Station , Silver Spring, MD, U.S.A., 20910-0046.
> <mailto:gzbooksltd@aol.com> Ph: 301-585-1471. Fax: 301-585-1471. Terms of
sale: Books are subject to prior sale. Please ask us to hold a book for you
before you mail your check. Books are sent via USPS book rate, insured,
upon receipt of your check, money order, Visa, MasterCard, American Express,
or Discover. Priority mail is a $2.50 surcharge. Books are returnable
within 7 days, if not satisfactory. MD residents add 5% state sales tax.
> http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/OrderInsert?ph=1&bi=23524900
>
>
>
>This mail was created 6/3/1999 3:23:02 PM and postmarked 6/3/1999 3:53:39
PM.
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Valley & Wallman copy found at bookstore
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:19:41 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n169
- -----Original Message-----
From: Multi-Volti Devices <multi-volti@softhouse.com>
To: Joe-List <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: 03 June, 1999 11:20 PM
Subject: [JN] Valley & Wallman copy
The amplifier volume in the MIT radiation labs
series is a great addition to a vacuum tube
library. ARC was selling this volume and
others from the series in hardbound reprint
but the company which has/had the books
doesn't answer mail and ARC finally gave up
trying to deal with the goofs. So $40 for an
original sounds ok. And there's another
volume on construction practices which I'd like
to find for myself.
=========================================================================
From: "Thomas Sylvester" <TRS@carlsmith.com>
Subject: [JN] Valley & Wallman has been reprinted
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:47:43 -1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n845
http://www.audioxpress.com/bksprods/books/bkaa61.htm
=========================================================================
From: StepHydro@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Value of copy of Reich
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:33:22 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n152
I have found a copy of Reich (Vacuum Tube Engineering...maybe not exact
title) in really good shape for $60. Is that a fair value?
Alternately, in case I don't buy it, is there anyone on Joe who would want it?
Cheers/Carron
=========================================================================
From: Steve Van Osdell <svanos@queencity.com>
Subject: [JN] Value of Pair of Klipschhorns bass units
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 15:05:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n738
A guy I know is thinking about selling his pair of 1966 walnut
Klipschorn bass units (just the bass horns). These include the original
EV woofers. He doesn't know what to ask for them. Does anybody have
any opinions on what they would be worth?
Thanks, Steve
=========================================================================
From: ken christianson <kaicee@earthlink.net>
Subject: [JN] Valve isolators for testing
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:16:53 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n924
Once again I'm getting into electronic valve (vacuum tube if you will)
electronics and I would appreciate any help locating something which I have
misplaced: in order to make contact via probes with the terminals of the
valve socket without having to access the wiring side of the socket, there
used to be a plastic or Bakelite standoff that was used. These were
different sizes for the different bases (octal, etc.) and approximately 2in
long and had numbered contacts along the top where the valve would
insert. These worked like a standoff and allowed probe placement without
all the gyrations accompanying burrowing through the wiring on the
underside of the chassis.
If anyone can assist me in locating a set of these, I would be most grateful !
Regards,
Ken Christianson
Glendale, California
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Valve isolators for testing
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:20:48 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n924
ken christianson wrote:
>
> Once again I'm getting into electronic valve (vacuum tube if you will)
> electronics and I would appreciate any help locating something which I have
> misplaced: in order to make contact via probes with the terminals of the
> valve socket without having to access the wiring side of the socket, there
> used to be a plastic or Bakelite standoff that was used. These were
> different sizes for the different bases (octal, etc.) and approximately 2in
> long and had numbered contacts along the top where the valve would
> insert. These worked like a standoff and allowed probe placement without
> all the gyrations accompanying burrowing through the wiring on the
> underside of the chassis.
> If anyone can assist me in locating a set of these, I would be most grateful !
> Regards,
> Ken Christianson
> Glendale, California
Try surplussales.com, I seem to recall seeing them in their catalogue.
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: rchamber@norwich.edu
Subject: Re: [JN] Valve isolators for testing
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:07:35 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n924
Ken-
Michael Percy, http://www.bainbridge.net/percyaudio/, has octal test
sockets of the sort you describe. I've purchased them from him. But I've
never seen other types of sockets, e.g. miniature 9-pin, UX4, UX5, etc. If
you find a source for them, let us know.
Regards,
Robert
=========================================================================
From: "P. Caillaud" <peufeu@free.fr>
Subject: [JN] Valve models for Spice galore !
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:46:38 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n699
Just found this page by chance :
http://www.duncanamps.com/spicevalves.html
- --
_________________________
Pierre-Frédéric Caillaud
peufeu@free.fr
32 Passage Gonin
69001 Lyon
France
06 61 52 75 96
04 78 43 15 94
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] VALVE O-Glow (direct-coupled Baby O): any out there?
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:51:27 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n182
Anyone actually build this from the second on-line issue of VALVE? I was
thinking of doing it with FS-030's.
Rick Francis
=========================================================================
From: "Chuck Anderson" <bosshogg@acedsl.com>
Subject: [JN] valve rectified power supply for DAC
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:39:54 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n625
On 10 Aug 2000, at 21:55, evaguido wrote:
> yes, I agree, a valve-rectifier is easier so guess what is in my DAC.......
The idea of valve rectification, as presented by more knowledgeable
Joes, appeals to me - seems so much more simple and elegant than the
kludges which are apparently necessary for solid state rectification. I'd like
to use a valve-rectified supply in a non-oversampling, CS8412 / TDA1543 x
4 DAC.
After looking at TNT's Convertus and John Levreault's DAC, I've decided
to go with John's output and digital input arrangements, which seem really
straightforward. But when it comes to the power supply, there's a wide gap
between my ambition and my knowledge, i.e. I don't know what the hell I'm
doing. Can someone help me out here - any pointers greatly appreciated.
Specifically:
- - Can / should I take a simple existing solid state rectified design and
substitute tube diodes / rectifier? Or should other parameters change, like
the PS capacitance?
- - Regulation: recommendations?
- - Opinions on using one supply for receiver digital & analog and DAC
versus three separate supplies ala Convertus?
- - Ten thousand point bonus for pointers to schematics of a suitable, simple
tube rectified supply using easily obtained parts!
Thanks, Joes!
Chuck Anderson
home: 212.Atl.anta bosshogg@acedsl.com
work: 212.317.7653 chucka@imagine-sw.com
=========================================================================
From: Conrad Drake <conrad@directwest.iinet.net.au>
Subject: [JN] Valves and t/t motors surplus in Oz
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:16:37 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n121
For Oz, NZ and ASEAN Joes,
Oatley electronics has a few valves (6j6,6j7,6av6,6d4) cheap (10 for
$20) and some TT motors at $4 described as
"Syncron Brand (Made in USA) Syncronous AC Turntable Motor. As used in
Garrard Turntables. Operate from 240V / 50Hz, 5W, 500RPM. Measures 50mm
diameter, 43mm high: (small quantity)"
Some complete TTs for $15 - which _look_ like the crap Kmart was selling
15 years ago
Also NOS 4 pin sockets, "micro" record players and allsorts of other
interesting stuff.
Oh - http://www.oatleyelectronics.com.au
- --
Direct West Invs. Solutions for Embedded Systems.
conrad.drake@directwest.iinet.net.au (ph)+61 8 9285 1000
http://directwest.iinet.net.au (mb)+61 40 747 1611
12 Gayton Road, City Beach, WA 6015 AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: Conrad Drake <conrad@directwest.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Valves and t/t motors surplus in Oz
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:50 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n126
Adrian Chan wrote:
> I tried to get to the oatleyelectronics.com.au website but can't. Is
> there a spelling error in the name?
Johari Yip wrote:
> don't seem to be able to excess the url.
Ah, bozo points for me! Drop the .au - the URL is:
http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/
CD
- --
Direct West Invs. Solutions for Embedded Systems.
conrad.drake@directwest.iinet.net.au (ph)+61 8 9285 1000
http://directwest.iinet.net.au (mb)+61 40 747 1611
12 Gayton Road, City Beach, WA 6015 AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] Valve works virtual tour
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:43:32 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n759
Hey Joes
New addition to retrovox website:
Pictures taken in AWV's Ashfield, Sydney valve works in the 1940's and
1950's. I don't know when production started here. This factory was
expanded in the 1940's with technical assistance provided by RCA.
More pics online soon. Soon dispels any notions about making making your own!
There's a woman at my church who worked there over fifty years ago. I don't
know when production ceased. The buildings remained until the early 1990's.
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: [JN] Valve Works virtual tour
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:58:24 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n774
I'm recently updated the virtual tour with lots more action pics from the
factory.
David Crittle
retrovox@bigpond.com
<http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~retrovoxaudio>
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Vance Dicker - oops Dickason
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:30:58 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n001
Dan wrote:
>>>I believe his name is Dickason<<<
You are right - and his book is right on the shelf about one meter away,
must get more light in here...
Allen
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: [JN] Vandersteen hookups?
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:45:21 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n145
A friend of mine acquired a pair of Vandersteens and not being a very
technical person, he e-mailed me with a question about the connector
plugs. I am not familiar with these speakers. He says there are four
jacks he doesn't recognize. I'd like to help him but I can't! Can
anyone fill me in as to what type of connectors Vandersteen use? I
assume it's bi-wireable...
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: [JN] Vandersteen hookups?
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 02:26:32 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n145
On Mon, 17 May 1999 20:45:21 -0400, Grover Gardner
<groverg@postoffice.att.net> wrote:
>He says there are four
>jacks he doesn't recognize
Most Vandersteens that I've seen used regular 4mm Banana jacks. See
if a banana plug will fit your friend's speakers.
The four jacks are for bi-wiring.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <triodelover@home.com>
Subject: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:56:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n975
Joes,
I've sent Eric Weitzman some VSAC photos. As soon as he replies and gives
me a link, I'll share it.
In the meantime, here's are some preliminary thoughts. It was fun to arrive
early as an exhibitor because you get a chance to meet and talk with all the
other exhibitors before the show opens. Friday was a busy day with a bunch
of folks, me included, with soldering irons out making last minute changes
or repairs.
I'm going to assume most of you have seen Dan's VSAC site at
www.vsac2001.com. If not, take a gander to get an idea of the program and
events. The locale was stunning - most relaxing.
While there was a lot of interesting gear at VSAC, the number of truly good
sounding rooms could be counted on one hand and a finger. My picks to
click, in no particular order, were:
(1) The Cain & Cain room - Terry and Leslie Cain have been making cabinetry
and furniture in Walla Walla for the last 20 years. After spending
considerable time at James Melhuish's site, Terry got the bug to build some
single driver speakers. The current Cain & Cain offerings are a Fostex
FE208 Sigma in a folded back horn that is exquisitely crafted. Price is
$4450/pair. There is also a Voight Pipe using a Fostex FE168S. The throat
length is 1444 inches and it vent out the top of the 6.4 ft tall speaker.
Prices is "around $2000" in a choice of finishes
The FE208 speaker was shown with Chris Brady's Teres turntable and Chris'
preamp. Amps were the Berning ZOTL and after-hours they hooked up Josh
Stippich's drop-dead gorgeous 801A linestage and 826/2A3 amp.
[As an aside, Josh's gear mad the rounds of several rooms and won first
prize - a pair of MagneQuest cobalt-core parafeed transformers of Josh's
choice - in the Craftsman's Open division. If you really want to cry, Josh
is in his early twenties. He designed the circuits himself and did the
metalwork with the help,of his stepfather, Dave Adams. Both men are lovely
folks and Josh is as unassuming as it comes. But I took one look and
decided to take up knitting ;-)]
The Voight pipes were in George Wright's second room. When I heard them,
they were being driven by his PP2A3 amps. First Voight pipe I've heard that
had deep and natural (instead of muddy) bass. Terry traded to Voight pipes
to Josh in exchange for an amp from Josh. George easily wins the award for
Bringing the Most Stuff.
(2) Bottlehead 1 room: Of course, since Dan was the sponsor he also had the
Bottlehead wares on display. A DIY TT from Mike Paschetto (that I believe
is going into limited production) graced the top of the rack. Underneath
was the new Seduction phono stage and a maxxed-out Foreplay. The Bottlehead
Straight 8s were driven by the Parabees with TJ meshplate globe 300Bs. And
the official Bottlehead bar lamp was on display.
I've also had the Straight 8s in my listening room in Knoxville. These are
serious speakers for under a kilobuck. I am not a fan of vertilinear
arrays, but these are good. Taut bass down in the 40s with a very good
tonal balance. Don't quite have the dynamics, transients and attack of my
big horns, but these should suit an flea-amp-loving apartment dweller to a
"t".
(3) the eXemplar Room: John Tucker's new parafeed 45s using the Vaic VV45
were on display. John has developed some sophisticated power supply tricks
using a new shunt reg design incorporating half of a 6N1P. The 45s were
driving the eXemplar horns. John is looking for a new driver source to
bring the eXemplars back into production.
(4) the Sierra-Brooks room: Kevin Brooks and Victor Sierra had their 32" Le
Grande horn/Tad 4001 on display with an Altec bass reflex enclosure.
Crossover point was 275Hz. It was driven by Kevin's 2A3 amps and the
Emotive Audio Sira linestage. It was also driven with Josh's ubiquitous
linestage and amp with a TJ meshplate 300B with 2.5V/2.5A filament in the
output stage.
The Altec woofers were 180 degrees out of phase until Sunday evening when
Stan Ricker caught the problem. After correction, to my ears, there were FR
problems in the 300- 500 Hz range that had previously been masked by the
out-of-phase woofers. All of this occurred after the Sunday open show was
over.
There is a discussion (OK, a pissing contest)at AA's High Eff Forum by Bruce
Edgar on the reasons for this. I tend to agree with Dr Edgar, even though
his purpose at AA is to shamefully smear a competitor. Victor Sierra and
Kevin Brooks are truly nice guys and even with the attendant problems, the
SB room was one of the very few good sounding rooms at VSAC.
The SB horns beamed rather noticeably, but in fairness the room was small
forcing a nearfield listening exposure that isn't conducive to these large
horns. OTOH, all the other exhibitors were saddled with the same room size
and these were the only front horns where I noticed any beaming.
(5) Welborne Labs/BD Design: The Oris 200 with the AER drivers horns were
marvelous until you got to the woofer. On vocals and small group acoustic
they were superb. On larger scale music they were congested. There was a
noticeable discontinuity between the woofer and the horns. Bert, I know you
want to keep the cost down to facilitate sales, but have you considered
offering an all-out version for those willing to put up the cash?
The Vifa woofer is just not in the same quality class as the AER and Lowther
drivers. The woofer just does not keep up with the horn. And I don't think
it will get better until the quality of the woofer matches that of the
driver in the horn. What about a TAD 1602 in a K-horn bass bin?
(6) The Dixie Bottlehead Room: This was our room, a group of gonzo Southern
DIYers who were crazy enough to scrape together the exhibitors fee and drive
a bunch of stuff cross-country to VSAC. John Wolff of Classic Audio
Reproductions was exhibiting his T-5s with Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere and
graciously offered to bring his show pair of T-3s for us to use. I own his
T-1s (the T-3s big brother) and I jumped on the opportunity.
We showed (off;-)) my PP/bridged SE45s, Marcel & Clovis, Jack Roberts'
parafeed 300B with MQ pinstripe IT and OPT and 5842 driver and Randy
Worthington's SE211 stereoblock weighing in at around 100kg and nicknamed
the Battleship Worthington. It's a triode-wired 7788 driver IT-coupled to a
211 with a Tango NC-20. In addition to the CAR T-3s we had a pair of cat
coffins with the latest Jordan 92 driver from Jim Griffin. The little boxes
really sang with the 2112 on them.
Randy Carter's Mambo Foreplay was our linestage, which isn't really a
Foreplay at all but 1/2 of a 6C30Pi cap-coupled to the output and an
outboard power supply. Source were a Technics R2R and a Sony SACD/CD
changer.
Based on feedback we got from attendees, and our own, unbiased evaluation,
the DB room was one of the top three at the show (with Sierra Brooks and
Cain & Cain) and won the Most Fun Room in a landslide. Sunday Morning
services with the Fairfield Four and the Louvin Brothers were very well
received, though most skipped out before we could pass the collection plate.
When the pix go up, I'll talk some more.
Phil
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <triodelover@home.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:05:17 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n976
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <sales@bd-design.nl>
To: "Phil Sieg" <triodelover@home.com>; "Joe List" <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Monday, 17 September, 2001 13.22
Subject: Re: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
> Hi Phil,
>
> Thanks for your remarks and opinions regarding the well organised VSAC
show. I
> would like to add some comments though related to the set-up I was
showing...
> :))
>
> > (5) Welborne Labs/BD Design: The Oris 200 with the AER drivers horns
were
> > marvelous until you got to the woofer. On vocals and small group
acoustic
> > they were superb. On larger scale music they were congested.
>
> This sounds like an amplifier or front-end problem. Do not forget that I
have
> had a demo with commercially available equipment.... :))
Good point.
>
> > There was a
> > noticeable discontinuity between the woofer and the horns. Bert, I know
you
> > want to keep the cost down to facilitate sales, but have you considered
> > offering an all-out version for those willing to put up the cash?
>
> The most important issue for me, regarding the performances, is that the
system
> should make MUSIC (even without being technical perfect!) for a reasonable
> price. This is what the Oris 200 system stands for giving a well balanced
> picture that gives deep frequenties with a clear and detailed sound stage.
You have achieved that goal, Bert.
>
> > The Vifa woofer is just not in the same quality class as the AER and
Lowther
> > drivers. The woofer just does not keep up with the horn. And I don't
think
> > it will get better until the quality of the woofer matches that of the
> > driver in the horn. What about a TAD 1602 in a K-horn bass bin?
>
> When people like you are used to horn loading then it is hard for the Vifa
to
> compete but when you are not used to anything reasonable good then the
Vifa is
> doing a very good job which is satisfying for a lot of people.
I agree. Of course, one could buy the horn and driver and DIY one's own sub
.
>
> Connected to a very good front end and dito amplification then the Oris
system
> will not sound delayed or "weak" in the bass. Of course there is
improvement for
> the bass possible but this will not only get more expensive but also
> bigger......increasing the WAF-factor.
I think you mean decreasing WAF ;-). The idea for a K-horn style bass bin
originated with the Opera Audio folks in Germany. Assuming one had the
corners available, then the bins would reside there and the Oris on it's own
stand placed out ihe room for best presentation. WAF for that *might* not
be too bad.
Phil
>
> Ciao,
>
> Bert
>
> -----
>
> BD-Design - info@bd-design.nl
>
> Phone/Fax : +31 341 254500 Mobile: +31 6 51242990
>
> AER, simply the best! - www.bd-design.com/aer.html
>
> Lowther Club of Holland - www.lowther.nl
>
> Oris full-range horn systems - www.bd-design.com/wwwpages/opinions.html
>
> On-line Forum - www.bd-design.com/wwwboard
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <sales@bd-design.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:22:46 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n976
Hi Phil,
Thanks for your remarks and opinions regarding the well organised VSAC show. I
would like to add some comments though related to the set-up I was showing...
:))
> (5) Welborne Labs/BD Design: The Oris 200 with the AER drivers horns were
> marvelous until you got to the woofer. On vocals and small group acoustic
> they were superb. On larger scale music they were congested.
This sounds like an amplifier or front-end problem. Do not forget that I have
had a demo with commercially available equipment.... :))
> There was a
> noticeable discontinuity between the woofer and the horns. Bert, I know you
> want to keep the cost down to facilitate sales, but have you considered
> offering an all-out version for those willing to put up the cash?
The most important issue for me, regarding the performances, is that the system
should make MUSIC (even without being technical perfect!) for a reasonable
price. This is what the Oris 200 system stands for giving a well balanced
picture that gives deep frequenties with a clear and detailed sound stage.
> The Vifa woofer is just not in the same quality class as the AER and Lowther
> drivers. The woofer just does not keep up with the horn. And I don't think
> it will get better until the quality of the woofer matches that of the
> driver in the horn. What about a TAD 1602 in a K-horn bass bin?
When people like you are used to horn loading then it is hard for the Vifa to
compete but when you are not used to anything reasonable good then the Vifa is
doing a very good job which is satisfying for a lot of people.
Connected to a very good front end and dito amplification then the Oris system
will not sound delayed or "weak" in the bass. Of course there is improvement for
the bass possible but this will not only get more expensive but also
bigger......increasing the WAF-factor.
Ciao,
Bert
- -----
BD-Design - info@bd-design.nl
Phone/Fax : +31 341 254500 Mobile: +31 6 51242990
AER, simply the best! - www.bd-design.com/aer.html
Lowther Club of Holland - www.lowther.nl
Oris full-range horn systems - www.bd-design.com/wwwpages/opinions.html
On-line Forum - www.bd-design.com/wwwboard
=========================================================================
From: Jim de Kort <jim@vt52.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:56:45 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n976
Hi Guys,
> > There was a
> > noticeable discontinuity between the woofer and the horns. Bert, I
> know you
> > want to keep the cost down to facilitate sales, but have you considered
> > offering an all-out version for those willing to put up the cash?
> > The Vifa woofer is just not in the same quality class as the AER and
> Lowther
> > drivers. The woofer just does not keep up with the horn. And I don't think
> > it will get better until the quality of the woofer matches that of the
> > driver in the horn. What about a TAD 1602 in a K-horn bass bin?
I have tried the small Onken with Vifa and the LaScala with Altecs. The
onken does indeed not match the horn perfectly, but it does produce nice
low end. I prefer the LaScala with it's very quick response, it matches the
Oris to form a complete system instead of "a sub and a horn on top of it".
The drawback of such cabinets is that the bottom end is gone below 50-60Hz,
and room acoustics play a great role in the remaining pressure in this
area. It's a compromise as far as I have been able to tell. (Unless I find
a bass horn that can go down to 30Hz without filling half of my room) :)
So it is "oomph" and a bit of lag and mis-matching (don't know if this is
the right word) or "tak" with excellent matching to the horn but early roll
off in the bottom.
Regards,
Jim de Kort
jim@vt52.com
Visit www.VT52.com for tube
DIY projects and datasheets
=========================================================================
From: "Jim Charron" <jimpcn@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:01:09 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n977
Hey Joes;
In my opinion, a 18" woof on an open baffle will do fast and low bass with
a 24-30 inch wide baffle.
I'm using a parts express woofer see
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Product_ID=7754&CATID=49
that goes low and has high efficiency.
My pair are also connect to a pair of lowther DX3 drivers on the same
baffle.
Wow high end on a stick for a song and dance.
Regards Jim Charron
I would think the performance is better than the below alternatives.
> Hi Guys,
>
> > > There was a
> > > noticeable discontinuity between the woofer and the horns. Bert, I
> > know you
> > > want to keep the cost down to facilitate sales, but have you
considered
> > > offering an all-out version for those willing to put up the cash?
>
> > > The Vifa woofer is just not in the same quality class as the AER and
> > Lowther
> > > drivers. The woofer just does not keep up with the horn. And I don't
think
> > > it will get better until the quality of the woofer matches that of the
> > > driver in the horn. What about a TAD 1602 in a K-horn bass bin?
>
> I have tried the small Onken with Vifa and the LaScala with Altecs. The
> onken does indeed not match the horn perfectly, but it does produce nice
> low end. I prefer the LaScala with it's very quick response, it matches
the
> Oris to form a complete system instead of "a sub and a horn on top of it".
>
> The drawback of such cabinets is that the bottom end is gone below
50-60Hz,
> and room acoustics play a great role in the remaining pressure in this
> area. It's a compromise as far as I have been able to tell. (Unless I find
> a bass horn that can go down to 30Hz without filling half of my room) :)
>
> So it is "oomph" and a bit of lag and mis-matching (don't know if this is
> the right word) or "tak" with excellent matching to the horn but early
roll
> off in the bottom.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Jim de Kort
> jim@vt52.com
>
>
> Visit www.VT52.com for tube
> DIY projects and datasheets
>
=========================================================================
From: "Jim Charron" <jimpcn@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:43:46 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n977
Hi Bert/Joes;
> Hi Jim,
>
> > In my opinion, a 18" woof on an open baffle will do fast and low bass
with
> > a 24-30 inch wide baffle.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion but this isn't what I call small.....:))
I would not call LaScala's small !!!
These open baffles are as wide but flat, ie. no depth.
> > I would think the performance is better than the below alternatives.
Absolutely!
> Did you listened to both other options?
I have owned LaScalas with lowther and owned Vifa drivers maybe not the
same version but I now what their about.
The laScala's do not go low, 50 hz. with the wind blowing in the right
direction.
The Vifas are surprising in that they kick/hit for small drivers but are
still thick and slow in comparison to lowthers.
I know there is something to say about
> dipole woofers (no boxy sound).
don't forget about the added dynamics and speed!
What crossover point and slope do you use in
> that system?
Well I can't give away all my secrets, Ok I can.
This probably can be improved upon, but for now I'm letting the lowthers run
out of steam with no crossover , probably around 300 hz.
I'm using electronic Xover for bass at about 75 hz /12db. which probably
lets sound go up to the lowthers.
Any corrections added for a more linear frequency response?
>
They don't sound bad right out of the box, but for little improvement you
can add a zobel network to lower bass and increase volume at those lower
frequencies, and add a cap and resistor to increase the Qts.
Regards Jim.
> Ciao,
>
> Bert
>
> -----
>
> BD-Design - info@bd-design.nl
>
> Phone/Fax : +31 341 254500 Mobile: +31 6 51242990
>
> AER, simply the best! - www.bd-design.com/aer.html
>
> Lowther Club of Holland - www.lowther.nl
>
> Oris full-range horn systems - www.bd-design.com/wwwpages/opinions.html
>
> On-line Forum - www.bd-design.com/wwwboard
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <sales@bd-design.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:08:58 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n977
Hi Phil,
> > should make MUSIC (even without being technical perfect!) for a reasonable
> > price. This is what the Oris 200 system stands for giving a well balanced
> > picture that gives deep frequencies with a clear and detailed sound stage.
>
> You have achieved that goal, Bert.
Thanks.. :))
> I agree. Of course, one could buy the horn and driver and DIY one's own sub
Yep, that's the idea, one I can help with
> I think you mean decreasing WAF ;-).
Are you sure? A high acceptance factor seems better if one wants to get
something into the house...
> corners available, then the bins would reside there and the Oris on it's own
> stand placed out ihe room for best presentation. WAF for that *might* not
> be too bad.
There are not many houses with suitable and free corners for a proper stereo
set-up..., the LaSkala would work better (with additional sub) or something like
the eXemplars built by John Tucker (my 'host' until I can leave the USA.....).
Ciao,
Bert
- -----
BD-Design - info@bd-design.nl
Phone/Fax : +31 341 254500 Mobile: +31 6 51242990
AER, simply the best! - www.bd-design.com/aer.html
Lowther Club of Holland - www.lowther.nl
Oris full-range horn systems - www.bd-design.com/wwwpages/opinions.html
On-line Forum - www.bd-design.com/wwwboard
=========================================================================
From: "Bert Doppenberg" <sales@bd-design.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] VASC 2001(long)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 01:15:17 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n977
Hi Jim,
> In my opinion, a 18" woof on an open baffle will do fast and low bass with
> a 24-30 inch wide baffle.
Thanks for the suggestion but this isn't what I call small.....:))
> I would think the performance is better than the below alternatives.
Did you listened to both other options? I know there is something to say about
dipole woofers (no boxy sound). What crossover point and slope do you use in
that system? Any corrections added for a more linear frequency response?
Ciao,
Bert
- -----
BD-Design - info@bd-design.nl
Phone/Fax : +31 341 254500 Mobile: +31 6 51242990
AER, simply the best! - www.bd-design.com/aer.html
Lowther Club of Holland - www.lowther.nl
Oris full-range horn systems - www.bd-design.com/wwwpages/opinions.html
On-line Forum - www.bd-design.com/wwwboard
=========================================================================
From: "Alex Rubli K." <rubli@noc.pue.udlap.mx>
Subject: [JN] Velleman amp
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:36:58 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n007
Anybody out there willing to share experiences with the Velleman Amp Tube
Kit ?
Also, if anybody has a MacAdam audio Analyzer, also to share tips ?
cheers
alexander rubli
------------==========-------____\|/___-------==========------------
| Alexander Rubli K. Universidad de las Americas,Puebla |
| Rubli@mail.udlap.mx Sta. Catarina Martir |
| rubli@pobox.com Cholula,72820 Puebla |
| vox:(52) (22) 29-2158 FAX:(52) (22) 29-2140 MEXICO |
| URL: http://noc.pue.udlap.mx/eno/Arubli.shtml "" "" |
| ----------------------------------------- - O |
| Honour thy errors as a hidden intention (B. Eno) I |
------------==========_______----/|\----_______==========---- ~.
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@talkware.net>
Subject: [JN] Velocette schematics?
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:45:55 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n768
Anyone have any idea where i might find a schematic for a Trace-Elliot
Velocette guitar amp? I have a pair of them, and i'm thinking of
"improving" one, but i'd feel better if i could see the original
manufacturer's intent.
- --
Dave Stagner <dstagner@talkware.net>
Universal Talkware Corporation
10 Second St. NE Suite 400, Minneapolis MN 55413
ph: 612-843-6749 fax: 612-843-6707
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: RE: [JN] Velocette schematics?
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:46:11 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n768
Dave--
I thought you were asking for a
wiring diagram for a Velocette
motorcycle... I've probably got
one of those around here in the
shop somewhere...
Merry Christmas everyone!
--Carter
>
=========================================================================
From: David Suess <ds10760@medtronic.com>
Subject: [JN] Veravox 5" and 7" drivers
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:43:53 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n248
Saw an add for these in Glass Audio (I think) that says they are
for Voight pipes, etc. Anybody know anything about them. How efficient
are they, frequency range?
They are from a place called ATD (?) in Italy if I remember correctly.
thanks,
david suess
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pj@bottlehead.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: Vertical OP amps
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 21:39:23 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n959
Dan Marshall mentioned:
> ... Doc Bottlehead's first
> SE amp was a similar beast, which used a TV vertical output transformer
> as an opt, which was later upgraded.
Inspiration for which was Dave Dintenfass's 6DN7 amp, in VALVE
v3n1 1996. Later (VALVE v5n2, 1998) Ron Welborne published one
using the 6EM7 - I think this eventually became a driver stage
for his big Apollo amp. Incidentally, there are a lot of
6EM7/6EA7 tubes around - the EM7 had a slightly higher
transconductance, but they were more or less interchangeable in
TVs. Don't know about hifi's though...
- -Paul
=========================================================================
From: "Brian Clark" <bdclark@talk21.com>
Subject: [JN] Vertical Sectioning
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:46:21 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n880
I know a few of us are working on or planning Sakuma-style amps using 211s,
10s etc.
To get extended HF response with higher impedances is a challenge for the
trannie winders.
According to Langford-Smith (I believe) the appropriate technique for
minimising capacitance seems to be "Vertical Sectioning" or "Scheibe
Drehen". Do any Joes know anything about this and know any winders who use
it?
Brian.
=========================================================================
From: "Brian Clark" <bdclark@talk21.com>
Subject: [JN] Vertical Sectioning
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:19:32 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n882
I know a few of us are working on or planning Sakuma-style amps using 211s,
10s etc.
To get extended HF response with higher impedances is a challenge for the
trannie winders.
According to Langford-Smith (I believe) the appropriate technique for
minimising capacitance seems to be "Vertical Sectioning" . I believe this is
the same technique as "Scheibe Drehen". Do any Joes know anything about this
and know any winders who use it?
Brian.
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] Vertical Sectioning
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:57:24 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n882
Brian Clark wrote:
> According to Langford-Smith (I believe) the appropriate technique for
> minimising capacitance seems to be "Vertical Sectioning" . I believe this is
> the same technique as "Scheibe Drehen". Do any Joes know anything about this
> and know any winders who use it?
It's "Scheibenwicklung" in German and depending on your point of view you might
also call it lateral sectioning... IIRC the basic idea is to minimize
capacitance by not winding the sections on top of each other but rather side by
side. Again IIRC, most good winders use it.
Christian
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: [JN] Re: Very basic question
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 12:05:07 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n372
Albert wrote:
> Hi Joes,
>
> I've a basic question... what are the requirements of a driver tube for a single
> ended amp.
Albert , Albert.
That is certainly no basic issue :-)
To put it short.
I has to be able to provide the swing to the output tube.
Or to put it anotherway , it should be able to provide a peak well over the bias
Voltage of the output tube.
Say you use a triode , with a bias of 60 Volts.
Then you will need the driver to provide a peak of at least 60 Volts.
That means you will need at least 100 Volts over the anode resistor of the driver.
Low Z-out will insure good bandwith. (Low ri )
Is that of any help ?
I do not know if you are new to electronics or just new to the tube buisness.
What power tube do you have in mind ?
- - Kurt
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Albert
=========================================================================
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
Subject: [JN] Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 13:20:47 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n564
Well, I bounced this idea off a couple of you and since it was easy enough
to try, I checked it out last night. Boy, does it work! This represents a
major step forward sonically, almost as big a change as when I took that
Shun Mook puck out of my car and buried it in my backyard <That's a joke,
son!>
OK, here's what I did. The amp, which I have described here as I have
developed it, started as a single-500V-supply rail, 6C45Pi driver (with 10K
plate load burning off ~340 V to give 160V at the plate of the driver and at
the grid of the final tube) driving 2A3 (with a 2K5 cathode resistor setting
the 2A3 cathode at 205V, resulting 45 Vbias on the 2A3, the 2A3 operating
point is 82mA/300V.)
I rewired it as follows : the driver is now loaded by a Lundahl 1660-18mA
interstage transformer (THANKS THOMAS!) with all its primary windings
paralleled to yield a 36mA plate choke. There is a 1K2 resistance in series
with the plate choke, and this is fed 200V by the cathode connection of the
2A3. The 35mA drawn by the driver results in a 42V drop from the cathode of
the 2A3 to the grid. Since ~35mA of current is now no longer drawn through
the cathode R of the 2A, it value was increased to 4K by the simple step of
paralleling a 10K resistor with the 2K5. This whole deal took maybe 45
minutes to wire up, start to finish, including the digging through parts
boxes.
Well, I can only speculate what has caused the improvements, but there is
lower bass, and nice improvements in detail and liveliness, soundstage
depth, all that stuff we triode zombies undie for.
A side benefit is the much cooler operation of the amp, just in time for
summer. Instead of 10W dissipation in each plate load R and 16W in each
cathode R (56W quiescent dissipation, not including the tubes themselves) as
it was originally wired, I now have 1 1/2W in each plate load and 8W in
each cathode R (19W total.) Remember the 80 mA current through the 2A3 is
split, 35mA through the driver, only 45 mA through the cathode R.
I think this is a pretty slick trick, frankly, and I'm quite excited. Thanks
to Clippy for showing me his plate-choke-loaded schematic which got me
thinking about this.
- -j
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 10:26:09 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n566
hi j,
just got your e-mail this morning.
was out of the office on friday.
just finished drawing the circuit as you described it
and was gonna tell you it don't work.... <just kidding>
just a warning that it might be difficult to get the required voltage drop
in the choke for your bias voltage (-45V).
i guess you fixed that with the extra resistance.
this is a very clever "slagle-like" brain-storm.
definitely thinking "out-of-the-box".
your math in one place worries me, but i'm sure it's a typo... ;)
see comments below
> ----------
> From: Ellen Oler[SMTP:ellenoler@earthlink.net]
> Boy, does it work! This represents a
> major step forward sonically, almost as big a change as when I took that
> Shun Mook puck out of my car and buried it in my backyard <That's a joke,
> son!>
>
LOL
> 160V at the plate of the driver and at
> the grid of the final tube) driving 2A3 (with a 2K5 cathode resistor
> setting
> the 2A3 cathode at 205V, resulting 45 Vbias on the 2A3, the 2A3 operating
> point is 82mA/300V.)
>
so far so good.
seems a bit HOT for 2a3's. almost 25W?
if it sounds good....go for it..
are you really using B+=500V?
> I rewired it as follows : the driver is now loaded by a Lundahl 1660-18mA
> interstage transformer (THANKS THOMAS!) with all its primary windings
> paralleled to yield a 36mA plate choke. There is a 1K2 resistance in
> series
> with the plate choke,
>
for a total series resistance of ???
> and this is fed 200V by the cathode connection of the
> 2A3. The 35mA drawn by the driver results in a 42V drop from the cathode
> of
> the 2A3 to the grid.
>
what about the DCR of the plate choke.
i'd expect it to be at least another 250 to 500 ohm?
would be nice if it was 1200 to 1300 ohm. then wouldn't need
the extra resistor. right dave?
> Since ~35mA of current is now no longer drawn through
> the cathode R of the 2A, it value was increased to 4K
>
the driver looks like 200V / 35mA = 5.7K
the bias resistor need to look like 200 / (82 - 35mA) = 4.26K
so 4K is cool...
> by the simple step of
> paralleling a 10K resistor with the 2K5.
>
whoops. this is what worries me.
10K in parallel with 2.5K is 2K, not 4K.
i'm sure you just typed too fast...
would thrown things somewhat outa whack, otherwise...
> A side benefit is the much cooler operation of the amp, just in time for
> summer.
>
ah ha. a *practical* reason for the change.
(and one near and dear to my heart).
> I think this is a pretty slick trick, frankly, and I'm quite excited.
> Thanks
> to Clippy for showing me his plate-choke-loaded schematic which got me
> thinking about this.
>
as i mentioned.
very slagle-esque.
have fun,
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:04:01 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n566
Hey Joe-gang,
Bob D has caught an error in my new circuit, and it will kill tubes fast the
way I wired it. The circuit values I gave will work, just don't try to get
4K by paralleling 2K5 with 10K. I expect things will sound much different
when I get the circuit as I designed it - I hope it doesn't lose the magic.
Bob D wrote :
> hi j,
>
> just got your e-mail this morning.
> was out of the office on friday.
>
> just finished drawing the circuit as you described it
> and was gonna tell you it don't work.... <just kidding>
It doesn't work, but it sounds good ;-)
> just a warning that it might be difficult to get the required
> voltage drop
> in the choke for your bias voltage (-45V).
>
> i guess you fixed that with the extra resistance.
Yes. The R of the transformer (Lundahl 1660) is small, because there are 4
primaries in parallel. Disregard for now. The 1K2 resistor sets the drop
almost alone.
> this is a very clever "slagle-like" brain-storm.
"Slagular."
> definitely thinking "out-of-the-box".
And implemented out-of-the-junk-box.
> your math in one place worries me, but i'm sure it's a typo... ;)
No, you are right. So I have a 2K cathode R, hmm.
Vk = 182
182 V = I*2K
I = 91mA
YIKES - that's really 91+35mA = .126A through the 2A3! 313V * .126 = 39 W
dissipation!
Ay caramba!
I better fix that before they blow up.
Looking at my math, I can't use anything in parallel with the 2K5 to get 4K,
I need to find a 1K5 R and series them. Duh.
Oops.
Wonder what it'll sound like with some sort of realistic op point. No wonder
the B+ didn't rise a little, as I had expected under the 70mA lighter load.
(This is actually what I expected to be the biggest problem - we'll see what
really happens when I cool the 2A3 down a bit.)
Thanks!
> > 160V at the plate of the driver and at
> > the grid of the final tube) driving 2A3 (with a 2K5 cathode resistor
> > setting
> > the 2A3 cathode at 205V, resulting 45 Vbias on the 2A3, the
> 2A3 operating
> > point is 82mA/300V.)
> >
> so far so good.
> seems a bit HOT for 2a3's. almost 25W?
> if it sounds good....go for it..
I had thought it was "only" 25W, but see above.
> are you really using B+=500V?
yup.
> > I rewired it as follows : the driver is now loaded by a
> Lundahl 1660-18mA
> > interstage transformer (THANKS THOMAS!) with all its
> primary windings
> > paralleled to yield a 36mA plate choke. There is a 1K2 resistance in
> > series
> > with the plate choke,
> >
> for a total series resistance of ???
Small. <100 ohms I think. About 2V drops across the tranny, so what is that,
~57 ohms. In any case, not a big deal, and I've certainly got bigger fish to
fry before my tubes do.
> > and this is fed 200V by the cathode connection of the
> > 2A3. The 35mA drawn by the driver results in a 42V drop
> from the cathode
> > of
> > the 2A3 to the grid.
> >
> what about the DCR of the plate choke.
> i'd expect it to be at least another 250 to 500 ohm?
Nope. Less. See above.
> would be nice if it was 1200 to 1300 ohm. then wouldn't need
> the extra resistor. right dave?
That's right, but I had this iron handy, and I figured the 1K2 was a MUCH
smaller resistor at least. In conversation with Slagle, he mentioned that he
felt a small R here carries no sonic penalty.
> > Since ~35mA of current is now no longer drawn through
> > the cathode R of the 2A, it value was increased to 4K
> >
> the driver looks like 200V / 35mA = 5.7K
>
> the bias resistor need to look like 200 / (82 - 35mA) = 4.26K
> so 4K is cool...
>
> > by the simple step of
> > paralleling a 10K resistor with the 2K5.
> >
> whoops. this is what worries me.
>
> 10K in parallel with 2.5K is 2K, not 4K.
> i'm sure you just typed too fast...
> would thrown things somewhat outa whack, otherwise...
I guess those new 2A3's are as sturdy as jc said they were.
> > A side benefit is the much cooler operation of the amp,
> just in time for
> > summer.
> >
> ah ha. a *practical* reason for the change.
> (and one near and dear to my heart).
>
> > I think this is a pretty slick trick, frankly, and I'm
> quite excited.
> > Thanks
> > to Clippy for showing me his plate-choke-loaded schematic
> which got me
> > thinking about this.
> >
> as i mentioned.
> very slagle-esque.
>
> have fun,
Always!
Thanks for the double-check, dude, I guess I'd better fix that tonight.
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:33:50 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n568
Hi Brian - I had forwarded your email from home (ellenoler@earthlink.net) to
work (here) to respond to it today - thanks for the reminder.
>"monkey-on-a-stick" - when I draw out circuits I see monkeys!
I get this image of a !disgusting! carnival snack, sort of like a corn dog .
. .
<sorry!>
>This version will use DC positive feedback to enhance stability and entails
>three resistors in series in the O/P valve cathode (2A3 like yours). The
top
>resistor (about 500 ohms) in conjunction with the choke DCR (about 680ohms)
>sets the 2A3 bias. Even if the 6S45PE is pulled the 2A3 will not entirely
cook
>itself.
Yes, this seems safer - you don't need the 6C45pi's current to create the
voltage drop, the 2a3's current does that. It would be interesting to hear
what the difference would be between these two connections - conceivably one
could make it switchable, they are very similar (except for the driver
cathode connection.) I tried a similar method of setting the final tube's
bias in a DC amp a while ago in a DC Double Darling, picking a spot partway
down the cathode R to reference the grid. I forget why I dropped it (I think
I didn't like how it sounded in that implementation) but there's been a LOT
of water under the bridge since then anyway.
>The B+ to the 6S45PE is taken from the bottom of this resistor where
>it joins up with a 3K9 which drops the 150+ V(I'm using the textbook 60mA
for
>the 2A3 with 20mA for the little Russkie - not burning them up like you ...
>yet!). At the bottom of the 3K9 sits a 100 ohm pot to ground. The input
>valve's cathode is connected to this junction. Twiddling the pot sets the
>6S45's bias which sets the 2A3 bias. The positive DC feedback (assuming the
>"stick" is adequately AC bypassed) stabilises the operating point. Thanks
to
>Thorsten Loesch for this little trick! A great way to build DC amps.
Interesting - so you are using one resistor string for both tube's bias set
. . . I had been planning to use a 100 ohm pot to fiddle with the 6C45pi
bias, on a similar wavelength. I find your idea intriguing.
What a cool bunch of worms in this can!
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: Re: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:05:15 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n568
>Interesting - so you are using one resistor string for both tube's bias set
>. . . I had been planning to use a 100 ohm pot to fiddle with the 6C45pi
>bias, on a similar wavelength. I find your idea intriguing.
if you use a 200 ohm pot between the stereo pair of cathodes you can ground
the wiper and this will alow you to balance the output tubes... the 6C45 is
in a very linear reigon, so a few ma here or there won't amount to much...
the problem I have with the 6C 45 is that like the other high gm tubes...
it doesn't want to match up with its partner, and i gave up on trying to
match pairs... given this type of biasing the key is to keep the same
current through each tube and this is a simple way to do it...
i actually use a 10 ohm pot between the cathodes, and then go to a pair of
series nimh batteries, this allows me about .15V of bias variation which
lets me nail the current through my outputs... while keeping the cathodes
of the 6c45's for the most part shared.(three 'monkey' type stages on three
stacked supplies... the last two cathodes are also shared are referenced to
the top of the resistor nickel choke junction...
=========================================================================
From: "Brian Clark" <bdclark@talk21.com>
Subject: [JN] Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:01:13 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n568
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFCFC8.0EEA2CE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello
I've just resubscribed to Sound Digest after a few months and was very =
interested to read your posting.
The circuit you describe is very similar to one I came up with just =
recently. Yours sounds like a "monkey-holding-stick" which has been used =
very successfully in Australia for a number of O/P valve types. The =
version I am about to try, when I receive my chokes from Lundahl, I have =
dubbed "monkey-on-a-stick" - when I draw out circuits I see monkeys!
This version will use DC positive feedback to enhance stability and =
entails three resistors in series in the O/P valve cathode (2A3 like =
yours). The top resistor (about 500 ohms) in conjunction with the choke =
DCR (about 680ohms) sets the 2A3 bias. Even if the 6S45PE is pulled the =
2A3 will not entirely cook itself. The B+ to the 6S45PE is taken from =
the bottom of this resistor where it joins up with a 3K9 which drops the =
150+ V(I'm using the textbook 60mA for the 2A3 with 20mA for the little =
Russkie - not burning them up like you ... yet!). At the bottom of the =
3K9 sits a 100 ohm pot to ground. The input valve's cathode is connected =
to this junction. Twiddling the pot sets the 6S45's bias which sets the =
2A3 bias. The positive DC feedback (assuming the "stick" is adequately =
AC bypassed) stabilises the operating point. Thanks to Thorsten Loesch =
for this little trick! A great way to build DC amps.
A friend is about to try this monkey with his PSE211 amp.
Brian Clark.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFCFC8.0EEA2CE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I've just resubscribed to Sound =
Digest after a=20
few months and was very interested to read your posting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>The circuit you describe is very =
similar to one=20
I came up with just recently. Yours sounds like a=20
"monkey-holding-stick" which has been used very successfully =
in=20
Australia for a number of O/P valve types. The version I am about to =
try, when I=20
receive my chokes from Lundahl, I have dubbed =
"monkey-on-a-stick" -=20
when I draw out circuits I see monkeys!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This version will use DC positive =
feedback to=20
enhance stability and entails three resistors in series in the O/P valve =
cathode=20
(2A3 like yours). The top resistor (about 500 ohms) in conjunction with =
the=20
choke DCR (about 680ohms) sets the 2A3 bias. Even if the 6S45PE is =
pulled the=20
2A3 will not entirely cook itself. The B+ to the 6S45PE is taken from =
the bottom=20
of this resistor where it joins up with a 3K9 which drops the 150+ V(I'm =
using=20
the textbook 60mA for the 2A3 with 20mA for the little Russkie - not =
burning=20
them up like you ... yet!). At the bottom of the 3K9 sits a 100 ohm pot =
to=20
ground. The input valve's cathode is connected to this junction. =
Twiddling the=20
pot sets the 6S45's bias which sets the 2A3 bias. The positive DC =
feedback=20
(assuming the "stick" is adequately AC bypassed) stabilises =
the=20
operating point. Thanks to Thorsten Loesch for this little trick! A =
great way to=20
build DC amps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A friend is about to try this monkey =
with his=20
PSE211 amp.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Brian =
Clark.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFCFC8.0EEA2CE0--
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 15:07:52 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n568
hi j, brian, joes,
i had been thinking about j's concern for the dc bias stability
in the car on the way home last night.
it struck me that he could potentially apply the cathode feedback
that brian mentions.
however, i was thinking more along the lines of the driver stage in my
screen drive el509 amp:
http://www.svetlana.com/docs/TechBulletins/technoteNo33.html
this approach involves only two resistors (which had to be there anyway)
namely the two cathode resistors.
you simply return the output tubes cathode resistor to the input tube's
cathode instead of ground. the input tube's cathode resistor is then reduced
in value to develop the same bias voltage at the new current (input tube's
cathode current + output tube's current).
in other circuits (without output tube cathode bypass cap) this would have
the additional benefit of being able to remove the cathode bypass cap from
the input cathode.
the positive ac feedback from cathode to cathode counters the effect of
cathode degeneration in the 1st stage...
in j's circuit, the output stage bypass cap is important because it provides
the DC supply for the driver stage.
but now i wonder if the input stage bypass is necessary.
although the effective ac feedback is shunted to ground via the output stage
bypass, the effect of the extra dc current is to greatly reduce the cathode
bias resistor.
(by my calculations: from 40 ohm to about 15 ohm)
this reduces the degeneration to practically nil...
hmmm.... hold on a minute...
just did a few quick simulations.
doesn't seem to matter, bypassed or not. input stage, that is...
just for grins, i took the cap from the output cathode, too.
gain dropped from 19.5dB to 5db, whoops....
seems like you could get away with as little as 40uF on the 2a3 bypass,
though.
100uF looks about optimum, though.
i still don't get the "monkey-on-a-stick" analogy, though...
looks a little like like SRPP. doesn't it?
gotta run JPL is here...
bob.d.
> ----------
> From: Epstein, Jeremy[SMTP:JEpstein@ndbcap.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:33 AM
> To: 'Brian Clark'; Joenet (E-mail)
> Subject: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
>
> Hi Brian - I had forwarded your email from home (ellenoler@earthlink.net)
> to
> work (here) to respond to it today - thanks for the reminder.
>
> >"monkey-on-a-stick" - when I draw out circuits I see monkeys!
>
> I get this image of a !disgusting! carnival snack, sort of like a corn dog
> .
> . .
>
> <sorry!>
>
> >This version will use DC positive feedback to enhance stability and
> entails
>
> >three resistors in series in the O/P valve cathode (2A3 like yours). The
> top
> >resistor (about 500 ohms) in conjunction with the choke DCR (about
> 680ohms)
>
> >sets the 2A3 bias. Even if the 6S45PE is pulled the 2A3 will not entirely
> cook
> >itself.
>
> Yes, this seems safer - you don't need the 6C45pi's current to create the
> voltage drop, the 2a3's current does that. It would be interesting to hear
> what the difference would be between these two connections - conceivably
> one
> could make it switchable, they are very similar (except for the driver
> cathode connection.) I tried a similar method of setting the final tube's
> bias in a DC amp a while ago in a DC Double Darling, picking a spot
> partway
> down the cathode R to reference the grid. I forget why I dropped it (I
> think
> I didn't like how it sounded in that implementation) but there's been a
> LOT
> of water under the bridge since then anyway.
>
> >The B+ to the 6S45PE is taken from the bottom of this resistor where
> >it joins up with a 3K9 which drops the 150+ V(I'm using the textbook 60mA
> for
> >the 2A3 with 20mA for the little Russkie - not burning them up like you
> ...
>
> >yet!). At the bottom of the 3K9 sits a 100 ohm pot to ground. The input
> >valve's cathode is connected to this junction. Twiddling the pot sets the
>
> >6S45's bias which sets the 2A3 bias. The positive DC feedback (assuming
> the
>
> >"stick" is adequately AC bypassed) stabilises the operating point. Thanks
> to
> >Thorsten Loesch for this little trick! A great way to build DC amps.
>
> Interesting - so you are using one resistor string for both tube's bias
> set
> . . . I had been planning to use a 100 ohm pot to fiddle with the 6C45pi
> bias, on a similar wavelength. I find your idea intriguing.
>
> What a cool bunch of worms in this can!
>
> -j
>
> =========================================
> Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
> =========================================
>
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:27:12 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n568
Hi all,
>This version will use DC positive feedback to enhance stability and entails
>three resistors in series in the O/P valve cathode (2A3 like yours). The
>top resistor (about 500 ohms) in conjunction with the choke DCR (about
>680ohms) sets the 2A3 bias. Even if the 6S45PE is pulled the 2A3 will not
>entirely cook itself.
There is one caveat here. The Circuit is rather "safe", but the 500 Ohm
Resistor in the 2A3 Cathode should be bypassed.... It might be interresting
to try without.
I might try the same "Monkey" for a 2A3/300B Loftin White using some WE437A
I had from Steve Jones (ThanX Dude) and some Bartolucci Interstage
Transformers used as Anode Load Choke....
>At the bottom of the 3K9 sits a 100 ohm pot to ground. The input valve's
>cathode is connected to this junction.
The key here is that the resistor needed for about 2V Bias with 60mA flowing
through it will be quite low. At 33 Ohm or less we can get away without
bypassing this Resistor capacitively, this basically being "the great idea"
of this Monkey.... Because on this Cathode you'd otherwise need many 1,000uF
or batteries or, or or....
>A friend is about to try this monkey with his PSE211 amp.
I told him he was crazy, but what the heck....
Later T
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:01:23 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n569
Hello,
I am sorry, I missed the beginning of that thread (was very busy) so I
cannot figure out how the coupling between the 2 stages is done.
Is there any schematics available? If not can someone do an ASCII
schematics of the thing?
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:39:35 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n569
- ----------
> De : Brian Clark <bdclark@talk21.com>
> A : Danielak, Robert M <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
> Cc : Jeremy Epstein <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>; Thorsten Loesch
<ezee_e@hotmail.com>; Dave Slagle <dslagle@earthlink.net>; Joenet
<sound@lists.io.com>
> Objet : Re: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
> Date : mercredi 7 juin 2000 15:17
> >looks a little like like SRPP. doesn't it?
>
> Hmmmm. I'm sure it doesn't analyse out like one though. Any one for
PSpice?
> Thorsten?
Hello,
I would say it looks more like a "Darling tone" :-)
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:45:51 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n569
- ----------
> De : Danielak, Robert M <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
> A : Joenet (E-mail) <sound@lists.io.com>; 'lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr'
<lecleach@cgis0.ensmp.fr>
> Objet : RE: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
> Date : mercredi 7 juin 2000 14:36
> i STILL don't get the "monkey" analogy,
> but i have a feeling the name is going to stick... ;)
Hello,
That's may be because the input tube, like a monkey, gets long falling arms
(the huge choke returning to the cathod of the output tube) and short legs
(the little resistor at its cathod).
And I even don't speak about the length of the tail... :-)
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 09:36:30 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n569
here's a quick sketch of a 1626 version of j's design.
i've also incorporated the cathode-cathode feedback that i described in my
earlier e-mail.
http://www.geocities.com/bobdanielak/monkey.gif
or if that doesn't work:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1965/monkey.gif
i STILL don't get the "monkey" analogy,
but i have a feeling the name is going to stick... ;)
bob.d.
> ----------
> From: Le Cleac'h J.-M.[SMTP:lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr]
> Reply To: lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 4:01 AM
> To: Joenet (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
>
> Hello,
>
> I am sorry, I missed the beginning of that thread (was very busy) so I
> cannot figure out how the coupling between the 2 stages is done.
>
> Is there any schematics available? If not can someone do an ASCII
> schematics of the thing?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
>
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:50:17 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n569
Last night I tried using a trim pot in the cathode of the driver to set its
current and thus the 2A3's bias, worked like a charm. No stick tricks yet.
> >i still don't get the "monkey-on-a-stick" analogy, though...
I told you, it's just like a corn dog . . . .
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: "Danielak, Robert M" <robert.m.danielak@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:18:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n569
[bob.d.]
> >it struck me that he could potentially apply the cathode feedback that
> brian mentions.however, i was thinking more along the lines of the driver
> stage in my screen drive el509 amp ...
> this approach involves only two resistors (which had to be there anyway)
> namely the two cathode resistors.
> you simply return the output tubes cathode resistor to the input tube's
> cathode instead of ground. the input tube's cathode resistor is then
> reduced
> ...
[brian]
> Correct me if I'm wrong Bob but cathode-wise this is the same as the
> Thorsten trick except, looking at your circuit, the bottom resistor of the
> (two resistor) stick is shown under the input valve. The benefit of
> eliminating the input cathode bypass is the same.
>
[bob.d. again]
yes, now that i drew it out, it is remarkably similar,
even in the values i worked out for j's amp.
(btw: j worked out about 1.2K total DCR vs. your 1180.
and 4K cathde load vs. your 3.9K +100 = 4K ! eeerie...)
almost as eerie as you and j coming up with the same direct coupling
scheme,
and you and i coming up with the same cathode feedback scheme.
there's a good chance that both of these circuits show up in some
archane text, or are even in common use in RF field or something.
but i don't spend a lot of time on research like this.
i usually dream these things up on my own, either in the car or the
shower or something.
i know jeremy came up with this stuff all on his own
(perhaps inspired by slagle - an innovator/rebel in his
own right).
> >i still don't get the "monkey-on-a-stick" analogy, though...
>
> When I draw triodes they look like mean monkey faces.
>
>
like this?
_|_
- - -
__
|
i guess i see it now. more like a baboon, huh?
> When I first drew out
> "the full monkey" the input monkey reminded me somehow of the children's
> toy.
>
i do recall a monkey-on-a-stick toy.
i envisioned the bootstrap loop containing the choke and resistor (if
necessary) as the monkey hanging onto the side of the stick...
whatever...
sometimes a cigar is just a cigar....
(uh-oh. monica thread..)
> Monkey-on-a-stick stuck more than my original "symbiosis amp". It looks
> more
> like the top monkey is doing his darndest to keep the other one down to me
> now.
>
nope. monkey it is... ;)
> >looks a little like like SRPP. doesn't it?
>
> Hmmmm. I'm sure it doesn't analyse out like one though. Any one for
> PSpice?
>
no it doesn't. did some p-spice runs the last couple days.
and i wouldn't expect it to, since you are cap bypassing the 2a3 cathode to
ground....
> Thorsten?
>
yes, speaking about thorsten.
he mentioned to bypass the 500 ohm series resistor with a cap.
i wonder why?
seems to me you don't need or want to.
you *want* high AC impedance, here.
the resistor in series with the choke (along wtih the choke DCR) actually
guarantees a minimum LF impedance.
putting in a cap only adds another LF resonance to deal with.
bob.d.
=========================================================================
From: "Brian Clark" <bdclark@talk21.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:17:03 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n569
Hello Bob
< ... >
>it struck me that he could potentially apply the cathode feedback that
brian mentions.however, i was thinking more along the lines of the driver
stage in my screen drive el509 amp ...
this approach involves only two resistors (which had to be there anyway)
namely the two cathode resistors.
you simply return the output tubes cathode resistor to the input tube's
cathode instead of ground. the input tube's cathode resistor is then reduced
...
Correct me if I'm wrong Bob but cathode-wise this is the same as the
Thorsten trick except, looking at your circuit, the bottom resistor of the
(two resistor) stick is shown under the input valve. The benefit of
eliminating the input cathode bypass is the same.
< ... >
>i still don't get the "monkey-on-a-stick" analogy, though...
When I draw triodes they look like mean monkey faces. When I first drew out
"the full monkey" the input monkey reminded me somehow of the children's
toy.
Monkey-on-a-stick stuck more than my original "symbiosis amp". It looks more
like the top monkey is doing his darndest to keep the other one down to me
now.
>looks a little like like SRPP. doesn't it?
Hmmmm. I'm sure it doesn't analyse out like one though. Any one for PSpice?
Thorsten?
Brian
> ----------
> From: Epstein, Jeremy[SMTP:JEpstein@ndbcap.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:33 AM
> To: 'Brian Clark'; Joenet (E-mail)
> Subject: [JN] RE: Very exciting experiment in DC coupled amp
>
> Hi Brian - I had forwarded your email from home (ellenoler@earthlink.net)
> to
> work (here) to respond to it today - thanks for the reminder.
>
> >"monkey-on-a-stick" - when I draw out circuits I see monkeys!
>
> I get this image of a !disgusting! carnival snack, sort of like a corn dog
> .
> . .
>
> <sorry!>
>
> >This version will use DC positive feedback to enhance stability and
> entails
>
> >three resistors in series in the O/P valve cathode (2A3 like yours). The
> top
> >resistor (about 500 ohms) in conjunction with the choke DCR (about
> 680ohms)
>
> >sets the 2A3 bias. Even if the 6S45PE is pulled the 2A3 will not entirely
> cook
> >itself.
>
> Yes, this seems safer - you don't need the 6C45pi's c